A friend of mine started doing a Sonic marathon of all the mainline Sonic games before Frontiers. Just last night, they ended the marathon on Forces, which they played for the very first time. Waking up to this video, and watching it the whole way through, I feel like just watched a video review version of the playthrough I watched my friend go through last night, nearly word for word. From the story to the gameplay to the retrospective comparison, everything was basically the same exact thoughts put in slightly different words. And the craziest part is that I'm pretty sure both were valid thoughts, opinions, and criticisms on everything that makes this game not that good.
It definitely was fun on the first playthrough. After that it was not as fun... Personally, I like it and to me it's underrated. Yes, it's lacking but that doesn't make it BAD. It just is lacking.
i did a sonic marathon earlier this year after the game awards trailer so i didn't want to do it again before frontiers. however i am playing all the sonic team made 3d sonic games i own (so all of them except shadow 05, sonic 06, black knight, and lost world) i started 2 weeks ago and i'm playing 2 games a week. (the week i'm playing starting on tuesday since frontiers comes out on a tuesday). i finished sa1 and 2 last week and i just finished heroes yesterday. tomorrow i'll start secret rings (which i actually really like). the only one i don't really like is forces but that is what i'll be ending it on, probably the day before frontiers comes out.
I’ll never forget the video that demonstrates the egg pawn robot a.i. comparing sonic unleashed to forces, 2008 vs 2017. The unlesshed robots swing at you, shoot at you and if they hit sonic they celebrate and taunt you. Forces, they just stand there…. Menacingly! They don’t do anything, they just stand…
Go play other levels. Lost Valley isn't the whole game. Not only that, as far as I know, melee attacks sometimes miss Sonic when you stand close to static robots.
Honestly Forces in many ways is the Sonic 4 of the 3D titles. Neither are outright bad, but both feel very much like a facsimiles of the titles they're emulating, with only surface level understanding of why the games they're trying to be were so beloved.
Apparently the "Tails has just lost it" line was a bad translation, I think it was more like "We can't find Tails". But given how he reacted to CHAOS ZERO, fair enough.
It’s worth noting that even though they used the word “destroyed,” it’s been clarified by Ian Flynn that Shadow *killed* Infinite’s squadron when destroying those Eggman bases. That’s what predominantly lead to him holding a grudge.
I never played Sonic Forces until I saw it on sale for half off at Wal-Mart last year and I beat it in about 2 or 3 hours. Let's just say, I wanted to get my money back. No game has ever made me feel that way outside of Sonic Lost World for Wii U. And I've played Paper Mario: Sticker Star and Mario Party 10.
My favourite memory of Sonic Forces is that I played it entirely in handheld mode on my Switch and didn't have to charge my switch once....And that was on the launch model.
Having just seen a Twitter thread where some people called this "Peak Video Games", it's very nice to have this video that really encapsulates how nothing an experience Forces is.
@@MajoraWaffle At least Sonic 06 had a spark of creativity, and a ton of potential. The game has genuinely good level design, and if the game wasn't breaking in half every second of play it probably would've been at least decent.
@@MadSociety-uy6zg i think 06 and forces are different kinds of bad. 06 was bad because they stretched themselves too thin and the game suffered as a result. whereas forces was bad because they failed to really try anything substantially new (and not to mention they watered down any reused stuff) and it just ended up being lifeless and bland.
@@brycebitetti1402 I played it on the 360 I didn't think it was as broken as people make it out to be majority of glitches you have to go out of your way to do.
I've been playing Sonic Forces a lot recently to try to squeeze every ounce of enjoyment out of it. I don't think it's good overall, but here are some things I've come to enjoy: 1. Modern Sonic has a handful of decent stages. Egg Gate, Network Terminal, Sunset Heights, and Mortar Canyon, are pretty visually breathtaking and quite decent level design-wise. Not even close to Generations or Unleashed, but they're decently fun with a healthy amount of multiple paths. 2. Classic Sonic is pretty bad, but the drop dash saves some of his levels. Chaining as many as you can in any row while zooming into powerups and over platforms can be exhilarating once you master it. 3. The Avatar's Wispons can be used to take alternate paths, and they have some cool bonus effects that can be used for speedrunning, like increased grinding speed, faster acceleration, and a burst of speed when landing. Drill is also super OP and be used for some fun shortcuts. 4. Some of the bosses are pretty good, which is a rarity for a 3D platformer. The first and 3rd Infinite fights as well as Metal Sonic are pretty fun, and the final boss is quite good. Sure, the final phase is mostly ripped from Colors, but the difficulty has been cranked up and it has way more attacks. It's the one thing in Forces that feels truly complete. 5. Episode Shadow is quite good. It is is essentially "hard mode" versions of existing Forces levels and even gives Shadow a unique "light speed dash-esque" attack. The writing is substantially better despite Infinite's weak backstory, and it's great to see Team Dark back in action. Overall it's quite a boring game, but it is not without a handful of positives. But at least 06 had excellent level design and an interesting premise. This is beyond saving.
I remember when the game came in the mail, I was so excited. I played it, and came downstairs around 9PM or so after playing it for 3 hours and I told my dad I beat the game. He looked at me with some slight confusion and was like “You beat the game already?” Gotta be totally honest with you, i should’ve been surprised too 💀
I never understood how people call this game “average” other than the fact that it’s very easy to finish. The game isn’t frustrating but it’s the worst kind of boring with automation at the worst it’s ever been. I just feel empty with this game. Only positives I can give it is that the Metropolis Zone is a cool aesthetic and the avatar is fun to customize.
@@jaretco6423 Honestly, pretty much. It's one of the reasons I would rather play something like Forces compared to, say, Heroes or Lost World where my enjoyment would just be punished at each turn. That said, I think there is more to appreciate in Forces than people give credit for. For instance, I do think Forces was a step closer in returning to the series' higher-stake stories compared to releases right before. I know some were upset with it being a half-step, but I don't think it was realistic to imagine Sega would do a full pivot back to that style by that point. Another thing I think Forces genuinely does well compared to other games in the series are the boss battles. Granted, the series boss-wise (aside from final bosses) does not have a great track record aside from Generations were all the bosses were great; but I think the bosses here are my second favorite selection. And yeah, the Avatar customization is easily the best aspect in the game. No contest.
Edit: Hmm, apparently this was debunked. Fun fact: Aaron Webber wrote comments on the Japanese script to the Sonic Team staff, most of which were ignored. At least they changed out the line “we’re going in hard and fast.”
I agree Jon, the avatar is the best part of Forces for me. Not too much of a fan of the game, but playing as the avatar and torching enemies and customization it is SO satisfying.
i thought the avatar was easily the worse part of forces. i hated playing all his levels, i legit prefer palying classic sonic in forces over the avatar
Thanks for going into Sonic Forces with an Open Mind and giving it a second chance. It's a shame Forces falls short. I think Forces issues fall down to not giving the game enough time for development. It's very ambitious but the devs seemed to bite more than they can chew. It has 30 stages across three characters but they all end before the really start and don't leave an impression. They're likely short to encourage replayability, but it's hard to replay a game when it was lackluster the first time.
Sonic The Hedgehog was one of the first games I've ever played, and I've been chasing that experience ever since, with the closest probably being the sonic advance games, at least until sonic mania came out, although I'm still holding out hope, they might do sonic adventure 3 eventually, since bayonetta 3 is now a thing!
I think it's better to wait until it comes out in full. There are other excellent complete games that came out this year that fulfill the need for speedy platforming: - Sonic and the Fallen Star (2D) - Sonic Triple Trouble 16-bit (2D) - Spark the Electric Jester 3 (3D) - Freedom Planet 2 (2D) All of those are masterpieces.
@@Gnidel Tbh Project ‘06 already has all of Sonic and Shadow’s levels fully playable, so I’d say it’s finished enough. The only thing that’s missing are the hubworlds and Silver, but the former are barren af and the latter has the worst gameplay in ‘06, so I don’t think their absence would be felt much.
@@amirgarcia547 The brief portion that you play Silver in Kingdom Valley in project 06 felt really good. So I am cautiously optimistic that the full version will redeem the silver sections, though the ball part from dusty desert might still suck, I think that part might be a lost cause
Sonic Forces is a great game but it has been judged badly since its first trailer and some are even treating it like its another sonic 06. The game has an amazing soundtrack , interesting story , great graphics , fun gameplay and its stages get better the further you get into the game and it has some of the best modern sonic stages from any boost game i dont know why people hate this game while modern sonic has better and smoother controls from colours' mechanics and classic sonic is alot like the one in mania and the game even allows you to make your own character which is pretty clever and fun im certain anyone who enjoyed generations , colours and unleashed will also enjoy this game dont let people tell you othewise.
I enjoyed forced for 3 reasons: - Being able to have multiple avatars and completion objectives to aim for. - Simple gameplay. I can play the game with videos on the background. - I did not pay for it.
I actually do have nostalgia for this game! I remember running into town on a Tuesday after school so exited....... To a GameStop who didn't even stock the game. I went to a local toy shop to get it then went home and beat it within 2 days. I loved every second of it back then and now cannot see it as bad. I somehow put over 40 hours into the game at that time and I can't really comprehend how, but the numbers don't lie lol. I love so much about this game for the memories it gave me, and even if it really isn't that good, I will always love it.
I was thinking when he said "nostalgia" like, who the hell is going to have nostalgia for a game that came out last year. it's already been five damn years holy hell I totally get having nostagia for stuff that isn't 'good' though. I have a ton of nostalgia for Sonic Shuffle which is by all accounts a garbage experience.
@@fleckeld7535 Lmao i also was like that when I was a kid, i played it when I was 12 and now I'm 17. I actually enjoyed a lot of the game but couldn't feel that it was the shortest gaming experience I've ever had lol
This is a game that's physically painful for me to look at. And I mean that in a literal sense. When I first started playing Sonic Forces, I was playing on Switch while resting on an air mattress. Randomly in the middle of playing this game, the air mattress burst and I fell really hard on my shoulders. So seeing Sonic Forces brings back a kind of phantom pain in the spot I got hurt. Oddly fitting. Phantom pain. Phantom Ruby.
This man expresses negative opinions very well- at no point does he sound overly enraged or upset, he retains a calm, civil tone that expresses the negativity in a way I can appreciate. I’ve always respected how Jon presents himself, but here especially, I respect him a great deal. Well done.
Forces felt liked they worked on a game for 3 years, scrapped it late in development, salvaged whatever they could and made the game we got in 1 year. The awkward and undercooked ideas, uninspired level design, and plot elements that feel out of place and get abandoned quickly are hallmarks of a patchwork rush job to meet a deadline.
i personally like sonic forces, but i've replayed it again recently and i definitely echo some of your criticisms, especially about classic sonic. i enjoy the infinite boss battles and the avatar stages (and creation) which really amps it up for me, so i think if someone doesn't care for the avatar or doing missions to customize them then there's not a whole lot going for it
While I don’t hate Zavok (or the Deadly Six as a whole) it’s so weird Sega had a sudden fascination with adding Zavok to the main games and spin-offs and make him a thing for a while.
I can't give an answer for why he's here, or probably in any other game where he and the Six reappeared. Team Racing I can sort of understand(?) however, given it's meant to be that each team has a speed, technique, and power character, and there really aren't any other characters who could fit "power" and still aligned with Eggman outside of like, a regular robot.
ngl i always get some kind of enjoyment whenever i come back to it. i know it’s not a great game, but it’s fun to do speedruns or unlock more avatar pieces. tbh the biggest reason is just to listen to the soundtrack again.
"The original Mega Drive games are also incredibly short, but I can't tell you how many times I've replayed them". Me, playing Sonic 2 while watching: ...huh
I remember playing forces for the first time and getting to the Zavok fight. before the camera is on sonic you have control over him and can start the fight falling off the screen and dying lol
Sonic Forces is the first and only game that I have returned to the store very soon after I beat it. I think I got it for Christmas and returned it right after playing Episode Shadow
This was actually my (now 7 yr old) son's first Sonic game. I got him Mania and he loved that, so he's very young and has no expectations for any game lmao I assume that's who this was for???!
The start of the video had me really skeptical. It felt kinda strange when you started off with "there's not a Sonic game I dislike" but as you went on and (very minimally) expressed your thoughts on other games in comparison to Forces, I really get what you mean. Really good video
16:52 And the Avatar only has that double jump cause you decided to make Jet the Hawk and chose a bird! That's its special species feature *If you choose any other species, you're stuck in the same boat as Classic and just doomed to fall in pits*
Never forget the effectively false advertising they did with all the previous villains showing up, only for chaos to get beat in a cutscene and defeating shadow in a short free dlc episode
This game took me 5 hours to beat. Other sonic games have taken me around the same time and afterwards I’ve always thought wow that was so fun, I gotta replay this again right now. This one I was shocked it was only 5 hours. It felt like eternity and I just wanted it to end
Dude you HAVE to talk about Sonic Battle for the GBA, that game deserves its own entire video highlighting its differences and its strongest point - the story!
It’s my 10 year old son’s favorite Sonic game. It never grabbed me. Funny thing is Sonic Mania never seemed to click with him while I loved it. So different games for different people.
yeah I mean when he grows up he will find out. I am currently 15 when I was a kid there are bunch of beat em up games that are pretty mid I loved them and still love them because of the guilty pleasure so the same thing will happen for him he will know that sonic forces is actually not good and accept that fact but it doesn't mean he can't enjoy it or have guilty pleasure with it.
He loves creating his own characters and has his own story with them that he plays out on his favorite levels. I think that’s the main pull. Nothing really to do with it being a Sonic game and more a way for him to play out his own stories
@@SpiderHam As someone who also loves creating characters and stuff like that, yeah, Forces is honestly pretty good for that. The Avatar manages to hit the right balance of being an actual character that reacts to things with development, and an avatar for the player to insert any details they want onto the character.
I couldn’t even finish it. I gave it to my sister, who may be one of the most forgiving Sonic fans. SHE couldn’t even play through it! For perspective; her and my cousin would play Sonic Shuffle for hours back in the day, and whatever that Kinect Sonic racing game was. Lol
I remember trying Forces out when it was in PS+ as a free game. I've finished it once, then second time and nearly a third time back to back - I liked what I got that much. I've thought it was a pretty fun, brief game, and because it was brief it was suprisingly replayable. Maybe if I bought it day one I'd be fuming with rage, but on sale or when bundled with a subscription it's a nice game. In hindsight it was mediocre-to-ok, and a letdown compared to phenomenal sonic mania, so internet funnymen gave it a thoroughly bad reputation, but I'd imagine without mania casting the longest of possible shadows it wouldn't be received as badly as it did back in the day.
The collect 100.000 rings achievement sounds like it becomes infinitely harder when the game caps you at 100 rings in a stage. Dunno how the game logic works but if it doesn't count any rings you collect past a hundred then that's terrible and the ring cap shouldn't have existed or been lower than 999 and then just counting up secretly.
Allegedly, the reason for Classic Sonic being the way he is in Forces is because they used the Lost World engine as a base instead of the more logical Generations engine.
Wow, you said exactly everything I feel about this game. Like it isn't like a broken mess that does everything wrong but... what does it actually have going for it? It is just boring. But one thing I disagree with is the Avatar. I do not like the Avatar and I didn't want to play as him. I think it would have made more sense if you could create an Avatar to play as instead of Sonic as an option. Like he plays the same as Sonic and you can choose which to play as because when I payed Forces I just made my Avatar look as close to Sonic as I could. I made a Blue Hedgehog with sunglasses, he also had the soap shoes from Adventure 2 which is admittedly a nice touch. I also thought the forest level with Shadow is cool only because it plays the White Jungle theme from SA2. That's it, they are my positives. Wild tot think that this might be someones first Sonic game though.
The Sonic Forces Re-imagined mod managed to make the game semi-decent. Never have I thought that I would actually enjoy the game with that mod. I can't wait to see the team remake Null Void, Egg Gate and Mortar Canyon as they are the prime examples of wasted potential.
in the vast majority of platformers double jumps exist cause the platforming isn't precise enough for the stages. Exceptions exist and they tend to have the most amazing level designs, like Hat in time
The only mistake is that they couldnt bring Blaze in.. i mean like , isnt things suppose to unwind back after solaris was toasted ? She deserves a comeback ..
I'm going to be honest: Sonic Forces left me incredibly disappointed. After the success that was Sonic Mania, I had high hopes for Forces but after playing it for a week I was underwhelmed. I honestly did not care for the character creator and avatar levels, Classic Sonic felt like forced last minute addition, and the story/character writing left A LOT to be desired. After Lost World, Forces is easily my most hated Sonic game: the only saving Grace for this game was the banger soundtrack
I'm pretty sure that the reason why Sonic controls so bad in this game is because it's based on Lost World. When Sonic start running, he doesn’t build speed naturally. It is as if he was switching between to different speed mode, just like pressing the run button in lost world. The problem with the double jump killing the momentum is also a thing is LW.
I've owned this game since launch, and I remember being excited to play it when I was getting home from school (I was 15 at that time). Played through it during the rest of the week and I will admit I enjoyed it a fair amount back then. My thoughts on it about five years later (I'm 20 as I write this) is that... it's fine. Nothing terrible but it's nothing all that great either. Will admit it is fun for short periods of time however. I do have to give it credit for being the first game I truly modded however, and I still do from time to time. And honestly, if it didn't exist, I don't think I'd be where I am today. Guess it served as my "nexus point" for lack of a better term. Another thing to note: I've actually gone out of my way to play and 100% complete every single version of the game (PC, Switch, PS4 and Xbox in that order). 15-year old me told me to do that by the time the next 3D game launched (Frontiers in this case), and I actually pulled it off. Probably one of the few games I've done this to (the others were Sonic Generations and Lost World).
I remember when this was about to come out and I was actually really looking forward to it because it actually looked like something that was polished and had a gameplay style that I wanted from Sonic. Then hearing what it was like from the reviewers, I was so disappointed. Such a shame.
If forces had only had green hill either right at the start with Sonic leaving his home to race into action and used as a tutorial or close to the end showing it completely destroyed, it would have been more acceptable. As for the drop dash, it works horribly. If used near a ledge it basically magnetizes Sonic to the ground and drags him into the void, it was responsible for nearly every death when playing as classic Sonic.
I got the game for free as a birthday present, so perhaps not having to spend money paints my perspective. Got all the trophies and the platinum. I'm going to say that I enjoyed my time with it, even if all the critiques are more than valid. The saddest part of the game is just that it had potential to be good, but it just does the bare minimum the whole time.
Thank you for at least trying Jon. I feel the game gets too much hate. That's not to say it's a good game, though. I had fun with Forces. I enjoyed the gameplay. Especially the music. But that's where my like for it ends really. The story is laughably bad and the levels far too short. I tried playing it again myself a few weeks back and just as I was getting into this one level and the music starting to pick up, the level ended...I want to defend Forces at times people hate on it so much. But it's easily one of the most forgettable Sonic games I've played.
Never played the Boom games because of the character design but have always been curious because... it's still a Sonic game. I had the same feelings about Forces lately, wondering if I should give it another shot. But I completely agree that it was just a massive nothing game and I barely even remember playing it. Gameplay footage even looks new to me at times. So thanks for replaying this for me and letting me know I can remove it from the back of my mind.
To be honest: I really liked Sonic Forces. It wasn't the best Sonic game, but surely not the worst. And for what I enjoyed in Sonic games, it delivered enough to keep me entertained. Most of the things that Jon mentions are correct, but if you enjoy mindless speed stages, you can have a lot of fun with it. The only thing I have to tell people who play this for the first time is that in a Sonic game with TWO playable Sonic characters in it, the Avatar is the one with the best stages and the best music. And since you can customize that character (most notably the weapon), it changes how you speed through the stages. To me, it is really fun. I often feel like people look down on you if you enjoy a game (or a movie or whatever) that is universally hated. If you find some enjoyment in it, then it has its right to exist. And you should never apologize for liking it, because "taste" is something that will always differ, depending on who you ask.
I don't get that last bit on "ambition." I get enjoying the idea of something or doing something different but if I'm going to judge something for what it is, Sonic 06 is just a bad but larger version of SA1. Sonic colors trims the fat of extra game styles but waters down everything from the previous game and Sonic Labyrinth is a test of your patience. I think my main problem with the "ambition" angle with sonic games is that the games people tend to defend tend to have a better version where we already know what it being good looks like. There's no mystery, there's no what if; we already have it and they can't live up the the bar already set, so I guess my saving grace with Forces is that it managed to pass the bar that was Sonic Colors for me. The last boost styled game that the lead game director made; so to me, that sense of growth is better than JUST trying to chase past coattails with a new coat of paint.
Sonic Forces is indeed a game in the Sonic series
You just saved everyone 26 minutes
It has graphics and there's definitely gameplay
@@icedcapplord710 it exists, and I'm a SUCKER for existence
It sure is a game
Is it
A friend of mine started doing a Sonic marathon of all the mainline Sonic games before Frontiers. Just last night, they ended the marathon on Forces, which they played for the very first time. Waking up to this video, and watching it the whole way through, I feel like just watched a video review version of the playthrough I watched my friend go through last night, nearly word for word. From the story to the gameplay to the retrospective comparison, everything was basically the same exact thoughts put in slightly different words. And the craziest part is that I'm pretty sure both were valid thoughts, opinions, and criticisms on everything that makes this game not that good.
It definitely was fun on the first playthrough. After that it was not as fun... Personally, I like it and to me it's underrated. Yes, it's lacking but that doesn't make it BAD. It just is lacking.
Oh cool, other people doing marathons leading to Frontiers. I just did the same, finishing the other night with Mania Plus's Encore Mode.
@@maleficking6556 niiiiceeee
i did a sonic marathon earlier this year after the game awards trailer so i didn't want to do it again before frontiers. however i am playing all the sonic team made 3d sonic games i own (so all of them except shadow 05, sonic 06, black knight, and lost world) i started 2 weeks ago and i'm playing 2 games a week. (the week i'm playing starting on tuesday since frontiers comes out on a tuesday). i finished sa1 and 2 last week and i just finished heroes yesterday. tomorrow i'll start secret rings (which i actually really like). the only one i don't really like is forces but that is what i'll be ending it on, probably the day before frontiers comes out.
@@Voltricity435 Don't forget Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I and II
I’ll never forget the video that demonstrates the egg pawn robot a.i. comparing sonic unleashed to forces, 2008 vs 2017. The unlesshed robots swing at you, shoot at you and if they hit sonic they celebrate and taunt you.
Forces, they just stand there…. Menacingly! They don’t do anything, they just stand…
Go play other levels. Lost Valley isn't the whole game. Not only that, as far as I know, melee attacks sometimes miss Sonic when you stand close to static robots.
Oh no. The enemies in the tutorial level don't attack me. AAAAAAAAAAAAAH
@@YHUAN01 Every sonic first enemy still attacks you or moves somewhat.
@@stanzacosmi So?
They do look cool though.
Honestly Forces in many ways is the Sonic 4 of the 3D titles. Neither are outright bad, but both feel very much like a facsimiles of the titles they're emulating, with only surface level understanding of why the games they're trying to be were so beloved.
Thats a great way to put it
It is the fourth of the 3D Boost titles, so that also fits.
Sonic fo’u’rce?
Both forces S4E1 are definitely bad.
Let's also remember that super Sonic DLC was originally $1.99 USD.
Apparently the "Tails has just lost it" line was a bad translation, I think it was more like "We can't find Tails". But given how he reacted to CHAOS ZERO, fair enough.
Yeah it’s true, it was always a translation error
The Game was written by english writers
@@themissingbits6375 Source?
Far as I know, it was translated from Japanese writers.
The Plot was made by Sonic team but the writing was made by Ken pontac and Warren graff
@@themissingbits6375 the plot and dialogues were Japanese but Pontaff edited dialogues and then Japanese edited them again.
It’s worth noting that even though they used the word “destroyed,” it’s been clarified by Ian Flynn that Shadow *killed* Infinite’s squadron when destroying those Eggman bases. That’s what predominantly lead to him holding a grudge.
damn......
based shadow
ALL HAIL SHADOW!
HEROES RISE AGAIN!
OBLITERATING EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT YOUR FRIEND!
I think it's safe to say that the best thing to come from Forces was the IDW comics which followed up on Forces' story for their first year.
And the music
I never played Sonic Forces until I saw it on sale for half off at Wal-Mart last year and I beat it in about 2 or 3 hours. Let's just say, I wanted to get my money back.
No game has ever made me feel that way outside of Sonic Lost World for Wii U. And I've played Paper Mario: Sticker Star and Mario Party 10.
Bah! I played it at my local game store kiosk and beat half the game while skipping cutscenes. It really is pathetically short and underwhelming.
@@LoliconSamalik you got to play for half an hour?
I can't believe you went the whole video and only gave the barest glimpse of the game's biggest redeeming quality: You can wear Amitie's hat :)
Or Joker’s outfit, or an AiAi furry suit
@@HACSSuperbMiner Is it still a furry suit if you’re already playing as a furry before you put the suit on?
It's not the original one so...
Amitie's hat..
And this is exactly why Sonic Team is confident they can sell an uncooked game to so-called gamers at full price.
Everytime the clip goes up of Classic Sonic barely unable to make the hill after the loop my heart sinks.
Same. It just deflates all hope in momentum, movement, and game flow.
My favourite memory of Sonic Forces is that I played it entirely in handheld mode on my Switch and didn't have to charge my switch once....And that was on the launch model.
One of the most unimaginative games I’ve ever played. Feels like a game that was made by a robot
Maybe it was made by one of Eggman’s robots in order to destroy Sonic’s reputation. It’d certainly fit perfectly, at least lol.
Very meta, only I don't think Eggman would let Sonic win in anything.
@@amirgarcia547 ""It was me, Sonic... I replace all your developers with egg-robots for tarnish your reputation!"
Bad games are bad because of mismanagement, which is from either lack of development time, development difficulties or horrible working conditions.
Having just seen a Twitter thread where some people called this "Peak Video Games", it's very nice to have this video that really encapsulates how nothing an experience Forces is.
Mad props to Jon for doing his part to keep the “Forces was good, actually” claims from materializing.
yep. same energy as those that still try and defend 06.
@@MajoraWaffle really Sonic 06 isn't that bad I rather play Sonic 6 over boring bland Sonic forces any day.
@@MajoraWaffle At least Sonic 06 had a spark of creativity, and a ton of potential. The game has genuinely good level design, and if the game wasn't breaking in half every second of play it probably would've been at least decent.
@@MadSociety-uy6zg i think 06 and forces are different kinds of bad. 06 was bad because they stretched themselves too thin and the game suffered as a result. whereas forces was bad because they failed to really try anything substantially new (and not to mention they watered down any reused stuff) and it just ended up being lifeless and bland.
@@brycebitetti1402 I played it on the 360 I didn't think it was as broken as people make it out to be majority of glitches you have to go out of your way to do.
“None of this is good Vector, that’s why it’s called war.” This was in a sonic game, let alone said by knuckles.
I've been playing Sonic Forces a lot recently to try to squeeze every ounce of enjoyment out of it. I don't think it's good overall, but here are some things I've come to enjoy:
1. Modern Sonic has a handful of decent stages. Egg Gate, Network Terminal, Sunset Heights, and Mortar Canyon, are pretty visually breathtaking and quite decent level design-wise. Not even close to Generations or Unleashed, but they're decently fun with a healthy amount of multiple paths.
2. Classic Sonic is pretty bad, but the drop dash saves some of his levels. Chaining as many as you can in any row while zooming into powerups and over platforms can be exhilarating once you master it.
3. The Avatar's Wispons can be used to take alternate paths, and they have some cool bonus effects that can be used for speedrunning, like increased grinding speed, faster acceleration, and a burst of speed when landing. Drill is also super OP and be used for some fun shortcuts.
4. Some of the bosses are pretty good, which is a rarity for a 3D platformer. The first and 3rd Infinite fights as well as Metal Sonic are pretty fun, and the final boss is quite good. Sure, the final phase is mostly ripped from Colors, but the difficulty has been cranked up and it has way more attacks. It's the one thing in Forces that feels truly complete.
5. Episode Shadow is quite good. It is is essentially "hard mode" versions of existing Forces levels and even gives Shadow a unique "light speed dash-esque" attack. The writing is substantially better despite Infinite's weak backstory, and it's great to see Team Dark back in action.
Overall it's quite a boring game, but it is not without a handful of positives. But at least 06 had excellent level design and an interesting premise. This is beyond saving.
I remember when the game came in the mail, I was so excited. I played it, and came downstairs around 9PM or so after playing it for 3 hours and I told my dad I beat the game. He looked at me with some slight confusion and was like “You beat the game already?”
Gotta be totally honest with you, i should’ve been surprised too 💀
Lmfao
I never understood how people call this game “average” other than the fact that it’s very easy to finish. The game isn’t frustrating but it’s the worst kind of boring with automation at the worst it’s ever been. I just feel empty with this game.
Only positives I can give it is that the Metropolis Zone is a cool aesthetic and the avatar is fun to customize.
@@jaretco6423 Honestly, pretty much. It's one of the reasons I would rather play something like Forces compared to, say, Heroes or Lost World where my enjoyment would just be punished at each turn. That said, I think there is more to appreciate in Forces than people give credit for.
For instance, I do think Forces was a step closer in returning to the series' higher-stake stories compared to releases right before. I know some were upset with it being a half-step, but I don't think it was realistic to imagine Sega would do a full pivot back to that style by that point.
Another thing I think Forces genuinely does well compared to other games in the series are the boss battles. Granted, the series boss-wise (aside from final bosses) does not have a great track record aside from Generations were all the bosses were great; but I think the bosses here are my second favorite selection.
And yeah, the Avatar customization is easily the best aspect in the game. No contest.
@@anotherjon6997 Forces is legitimately lower stakes in both events and tone than Lost World.
I like the optimism. I hate when people talk about a game and it starts with them sighing and saying we already know it's going to be bad
But yeah game not good
Edit: Hmm, apparently this was debunked.
Fun fact: Aaron Webber wrote comments on the Japanese script to the Sonic Team staff, most of which were ignored.
At least they changed out the line “we’re going in hard and fast.”
The game doesn't even use the Japanese script at all. Why are you perpetuating this lie?
I think it was towards the Pontaff duo, from what I saw of it.
Not gonna lie, it was pretty funny to read.
that alleged script with all of those callout notes written on it by Aaron was debunked by him as not being official and was created by a fan iirc
@@bintobox How do we know if Aaron's not just trying to cover for themself?
Ayo?
16:35 Ah man, I spent so long playing that, stomping…Koopas!
Imagine if Forces got the same love, passion, and detail as Mania.
Imagine if they didn't spend 3 years of a 4 year development time on a graphics engine
@@noobstoise1024 A graphics engine that looks WORSE than OG Hedgehog Engine on top of that.
@@icedcapplord710 Exactly
@@icedcapplord710 Unleashed still the best looking game after 14 years
@@noobstoise1024 hey, at least going hedgehog engine let puyo puyo tetris 2 be easily moddable thanks to it being on hedgehog engine 2
I agree Jon, the avatar is the best part of Forces for me. Not too much of a fan of the game, but playing as the avatar and torching enemies and customization it is SO satisfying.
i thought the avatar was easily the worse part of forces. i hated playing all his levels, i legit prefer palying classic sonic in forces over the avatar
@@Voltricity435 I didn’t mind.
Thanks for going into Sonic Forces with an Open Mind and giving it a second chance. It's a shame Forces falls short. I think Forces issues fall down to not giving the game enough time for development. It's very ambitious but the devs seemed to bite more than they can chew. It has 30 stages across three characters but they all end before the really start and don't leave an impression. They're likely short to encourage replayability, but it's hard to replay a game when it was lackluster the first time.
it's not really a shame. unlike 06 and boom, which where rushed and might have been good, forces is bad because of bad ideas.
sonic forces jon to give it another chance
One of the Sonic games of all time
Sonic The Hedgehog was one of the first games I've ever played, and I've been chasing that experience ever since, with the closest probably being the sonic advance games, at least until sonic mania came out, although I'm still holding out hope, they might do sonic adventure 3 eventually, since bayonetta 3 is now a thing!
Who's to say a Sonic Adventure 3 would be good?
If Jon wants some free Sonic serotonin, I'd recommend giving Project 06 a shot. Unless he has already. In which case... Ooooo... I'm a ghooooost...
I think it's better to wait until it comes out in full. There are other excellent complete games that came out this year that fulfill the need for speedy platforming:
- Sonic and the Fallen Star (2D)
- Sonic Triple Trouble 16-bit (2D)
- Spark the Electric Jester 3 (3D)
- Freedom Planet 2 (2D)
All of those are masterpieces.
@@Gnidel Tbh Project ‘06 already has all of Sonic and Shadow’s levels fully playable, so I’d say it’s finished enough. The only thing that’s missing are the hubworlds and Silver, but the former are barren af and the latter has the worst gameplay in ‘06, so I don’t think their absence would be felt much.
@@amirgarcia547 The brief portion that you play Silver in Kingdom Valley in project 06 felt really good. So I am cautiously optimistic that the full version will redeem the silver sections, though the ball part from dusty desert might still suck, I think that part might be a lost cause
@@brianvaira486 what if the ball puzzle actually gets a camera and line to show where it's going
22:50 thankfully you can press Y to see the stages in order. Also the area is on the card.
Sonic Forces is a great game but it has been judged badly since its first trailer and some are even treating it like its another sonic 06.
The game has an amazing soundtrack , interesting story , great graphics , fun gameplay and its stages get better the further you get into the game and it has some of the best modern sonic stages from any boost game i dont know why people hate this game while modern sonic has better and smoother controls from colours' mechanics and classic sonic is alot like the one in mania and the game even allows you to make your own character which is pretty clever and fun im certain anyone who enjoyed generations , colours and unleashed will also enjoy this game dont let people tell you othewise.
Considering you stated how much you love even the bad Sonic games in the outset, this is truly one of the most savage reviews possible.
SomeCallMeJohnny said it best: "Sonic Forces is a 3D Sonic game on auto-pilot."
I enjoyed forced for 3 reasons:
- Being able to have multiple avatars and completion objectives to aim for.
- Simple gameplay. I can play the game with videos on the background.
- I did not pay for it.
I actually do have nostalgia for this game! I remember running into town on a Tuesday after school so exited....... To a GameStop who didn't even stock the game. I went to a local toy shop to get it then went home and beat it within 2 days. I loved every second of it back then and now cannot see it as bad. I somehow put over 40 hours into the game at that time and I can't really comprehend how, but the numbers don't lie lol. I love so much about this game for the memories it gave me, and even if it really isn't that good, I will always love it.
I was thinking when he said "nostalgia" like, who the hell is going to have nostalgia for a game that came out last year.
it's already been five damn years holy hell
I totally get having nostagia for stuff that isn't 'good' though. I have a ton of nostalgia for Sonic Shuffle which is by all accounts a garbage experience.
@@lpnp9477 Yea when it first came out I legit thought it was better then Mario Odyssey
@@fleckeld7535 Lmao i also was like that when I was a kid, i played it when I was 12 and now I'm 17. I actually enjoyed a lot of the game but couldn't feel that it was the shortest gaming experience I've ever had lol
This is a game that's physically painful for me to look at. And I mean that in a literal sense.
When I first started playing Sonic Forces, I was playing on Switch while resting on an air mattress. Randomly in the middle of playing this game, the air mattress burst and I fell really hard on my shoulders. So seeing Sonic Forces brings back a kind of phantom pain in the spot I got hurt.
Oddly fitting. Phantom pain. Phantom Ruby.
This man expresses negative opinions very well- at no point does he sound overly enraged or upset, he retains a calm, civil tone that expresses the negativity in a way I can appreciate. I’ve always respected how Jon presents himself, but here especially, I respect him a great deal. Well done.
Forces felt liked they worked on a game for 3 years, scrapped it late in development, salvaged whatever they could and made the game we got in 1 year. The awkward and undercooked ideas, uninspired level design, and plot elements that feel out of place and get abandoned quickly are hallmarks of a patchwork rush job to meet a deadline.
i personally like sonic forces, but i've replayed it again recently and i definitely echo some of your criticisms, especially about classic sonic. i enjoy the infinite boss battles and the avatar stages (and creation) which really amps it up for me, so i think if someone doesn't care for the avatar or doing missions to customize them then there's not a whole lot going for it
The duo levels always bugged me looks wise lol, Sonic literally just floating next to the OC every grapple
I’m with you on double jumps.
While I don’t hate Zavok (or the Deadly Six as a whole) it’s so weird Sega had a sudden fascination with adding Zavok to the main games and spin-offs and make him a thing for a while.
I can't give an answer for why he's here, or probably in any other game where he and the Six reappeared.
Team Racing I can sort of understand(?) however, given it's meant to be that each team has a speed, technique, and power character, and there really aren't any other characters who could fit "power" and still aligned with Eggman outside of like, a regular robot.
ngl i always get some kind of enjoyment whenever i come back to it. i know it’s not a great game, but it’s fun to do speedruns or unlock more avatar pieces. tbh the biggest reason is just to listen to the soundtrack again.
"The original Mega Drive games are also incredibly short, but I can't tell you how many times I've replayed them".
Me, playing Sonic 2 while watching: ...huh
I remember playing forces for the first time and getting to the Zavok fight. before the camera is on sonic you have control over him and can start the fight falling off the screen and dying lol
Video should have been titled "I FORCED myself to finish sonic forces, again"
Sonic Forces is the first and only game that I have returned to the store very soon after I beat it. I think I got it for Christmas and returned it right after playing Episode Shadow
This was actually my (now 7 yr old) son's first Sonic game. I got him Mania and he loved that, so he's very young and has no expectations for any game lmao
I assume that's who this was for???!
The start of the video had me really skeptical. It felt kinda strange when you started off with "there's not a Sonic game I dislike" but as you went on and (very minimally) expressed your thoughts on other games in comparison to Forces, I really get what you mean. Really good video
Remember even the demo for Sonic Forces gave you a timer on playing it meaning you had to keep exiting and re-entering to be able to play all of it.
and how the final boost only level is the same time to complete at optimal play as the first boost only level
16:52
And the Avatar only has that double jump cause you decided to make Jet the Hawk and chose a bird! That's its special species feature
*If you choose any other species, you're stuck in the same boat as Classic and just doomed to fall in pits*
You should cover the sonic colors ds you mentioned. That game is amazing
Sonic Forces is what happens when you try to appease both the dA side and the SatAM side of the Sonic fandom.
Having read the Ariche Comics as a kid ,inculding the gun control issue, I can deal with anything. Haha
@@elidasilva5558 Nah, if you've read the issue where Charmy's friend dies from taking LSD, *then* you can deal with anything.
What is dA
@@lpnp9477 An art site. I'd put down the full name, but RUclips tends to delete any comment that does, for some reason.
Never forget the effectively false advertising they did with all the previous villains showing up, only for chaos to get beat in a cutscene and defeating shadow in a short free dlc episode
you KNOW you messed up when even good vibes gaming doesn't think you're a good game lmaoo
Hard to believe this game is nearly 5 years old
This game took me 5 hours to beat. Other sonic games have taken me around the same time and afterwards I’ve always thought wow that was so fun, I gotta replay this again right now. This one I was shocked it was only 5 hours. It felt like eternity and I just wanted it to end
His face in the thumbnail 😂😂😂
Dude you HAVE to talk about Sonic Battle for the GBA, that game deserves its own entire video highlighting its differences and its strongest point - the story!
Sonic Forces is the best Sonic OC creator I've ever used, and it has a game attached to it too! What a deal!
STONKS
When you ask an AI to make a Sonic game:
It’s my 10 year old son’s favorite Sonic game. It never grabbed me. Funny thing is Sonic Mania never seemed to click with him while I loved it. So different games for different people.
His favorite Sonic game!? I know he's a kid but damn. He'll see the error of his ways eventually.
yeah I mean when he grows up he will find out. I am currently 15 when I was a kid there are bunch of beat em up games that are pretty mid I loved them and still love them because of the guilty pleasure so the same thing will happen for him he will know that sonic forces is actually not good and accept that fact but it doesn't mean he can't enjoy it or have guilty pleasure with it.
He loves creating his own characters and has his own story with them that he plays out on his favorite levels. I think that’s the main pull. Nothing really to do with it being a Sonic game and more a way for him to play out his own stories
@@thefruityking6722 I mean there are nastalgia blind adults who dilute themselves into thinking 06 was good
@@SpiderHam As someone who also loves creating characters and stuff like that, yeah, Forces is honestly pretty good for that.
The Avatar manages to hit the right balance of being an actual character that reacts to things with development, and an avatar for the player to insert any details they want onto the character.
I couldn’t even finish it. I gave it to my sister, who may be one of the most forgiving Sonic fans. SHE couldn’t even play through it!
For perspective; her and my cousin would play Sonic Shuffle for hours back in the day, and whatever that Kinect Sonic racing game was. Lol
I remember trying Forces out when it was in PS+ as a free game. I've finished it once, then second time and nearly a third time back to back - I liked what I got that much. I've thought it was a pretty fun, brief game, and because it was brief it was suprisingly replayable. Maybe if I bought it day one I'd be fuming with rage, but on sale or when bundled with a subscription it's a nice game. In hindsight it was mediocre-to-ok, and a letdown compared to phenomenal sonic mania, so internet funnymen gave it a thoroughly bad reputation, but I'd imagine without mania casting the longest of possible shadows it wouldn't be received as badly as it did back in the day.
Good morning, GVG crew! Let’s have a great weekend ahead
The collect 100.000 rings achievement sounds like it becomes infinitely harder when the game caps you at 100 rings in a stage. Dunno how the game logic works but if it doesn't count any rings you collect past a hundred then that's terrible and the ring cap shouldn't have existed or been lower than 999 and then just counting up secretly.
Allegedly, the reason for Classic Sonic being the way he is in Forces is because they used the Lost World engine as a base instead of the more logical Generations engine.
Apparently, that’s because they lost the source codes of Generations and even Unleashed.
@@tsp184 You can't be serious.
Playing as classic sonic feels like chasing a wild cat around a bathroom
John did not want to play the game again.
Sonic forces him to play it again
I enjoy turning my brain off and flying through the levels I like this one eventhough it's not great
Wow, you said exactly everything I feel about this game. Like it isn't like a broken mess that does everything wrong but... what does it actually have going for it? It is just boring.
But one thing I disagree with is the Avatar. I do not like the Avatar and I didn't want to play as him. I think it would have made more sense if you could create an Avatar to play as instead of Sonic as an option. Like he plays the same as Sonic and you can choose which to play as because when I payed Forces I just made my Avatar look as close to Sonic as I could. I made a Blue Hedgehog with sunglasses, he also had the soap shoes from Adventure 2 which is admittedly a nice touch. I also thought the forest level with Shadow is cool only because it plays the White Jungle theme from SA2. That's it, they are my positives. Wild tot think that this might be someones first Sonic game though.
Sonic Forces… man this game let me down back in 2017…
The Sonic Forces Re-imagined mod managed to make the game semi-decent. Never have I thought that I would actually enjoy the game with that mod.
I can't wait to see the team remake Null Void, Egg Gate and Mortar Canyon as they are the prime examples of wasted potential.
Ikr, especially Mortar Canyon since it’s this huge, fully 3D level that you can easily beat in a minute.
Great video! Great to hear what sonic games to try first.
Great game if you like running down hallways
Someone get this man the Sonic Forces Reimagined mod, stat-!
in the vast majority of platformers double jumps exist cause the platforming isn't precise enough for the stages. Exceptions exist and they tend to have the most amazing level designs, like Hat in time
5:40 let go and hold right after you bounce off the right wall to get better turning control.
Look, say what you want about Sonic Forces, but when that Hoobastank song kicks in it's hype as hell.
It's weird how a franchise gets both a really good and a really bad game in the same year.
Honestly, that's just par for the course when it comes to Sonic sometimes
Bionic Commando moment
"In a World.....Sonic may join forces on the good Side..." Would you start every video with a Trailer voice? I mean you got one dude ^^.
Even Sega themselves aren’t proud of this game
Thanks very much
Jon gotta be one of my favorite Sonic fans.
Just watching the 2.5D sections always give me anxiety
16:48 That's for me in Sonic Colours, I couldn't trust the jumping at all so never got past the first stage.
Hoobastank's "Fist Bump" is still the best part of this game. From Crawling in the Dark to The Reason to Sonic. What a weird career.
Wait, they made Fist Bump? Never knew that. Feels weird now lol.
The only mistake is that they couldnt bring Blaze in.. i mean like , isnt things suppose to unwind back after solaris was toasted ? She deserves a comeback ..
I'm going to be honest: Sonic Forces left me incredibly disappointed. After the success that was Sonic Mania, I had high hopes for Forces but after playing it for a week I was underwhelmed.
I honestly did not care for the character creator and avatar levels, Classic Sonic felt like forced last minute addition, and the story/character writing left A LOT to be desired.
After Lost World, Forces is easily my most hated Sonic game: the only saving Grace for this game was the banger soundtrack
I'm pretty sure that the reason why Sonic controls so bad in this game is because it's based on Lost World. When Sonic start running, he doesn’t build speed naturally. It is as if he was switching between to different speed mode, just like pressing the run button in lost world. The problem with the double jump killing the momentum is also a thing is LW.
This is a game I've never beaten...
For a 2-3 hour game, that should say something.
I've owned this game since launch, and I remember being excited to play it when I was getting home from school (I was 15 at that time). Played through it during the rest of the week and I will admit I enjoyed it a fair amount back then.
My thoughts on it about five years later (I'm 20 as I write this) is that... it's fine. Nothing terrible but it's nothing all that great either. Will admit it is fun for short periods of time however. I do have to give it credit for being the first game I truly modded however, and I still do from time to time. And honestly, if it didn't exist, I don't think I'd be where I am today. Guess it served as my "nexus point" for lack of a better term.
Another thing to note: I've actually gone out of my way to play and 100% complete every single version of the game (PC, Switch, PS4 and Xbox in that order). 15-year old me told me to do that by the time the next 3D game launched (Frontiers in this case), and I actually pulled it off. Probably one of the few games I've done this to (the others were Sonic Generations and Lost World).
12:14 Made Jett the hawk more sex positive. Kudos for a gaming outlet for pushing the boundary for saying sex positive in video game video.
I remember when this was about to come out and I was actually really looking forward to it because it actually looked like something that was polished and had a gameplay style that I wanted from Sonic. Then hearing what it was like from the reviewers, I was so disappointed. Such a shame.
If forces had only had green hill either right at the start with Sonic leaving his home to race into action and used as a tutorial or close to the end showing it completely destroyed, it would have been more acceptable. As for the drop dash, it works horribly. If used near a ledge it basically magnetizes Sonic to the ground and drags him into the void, it was responsible for nearly every death when playing as classic Sonic.
I got the game for free as a birthday present, so perhaps not having to spend money paints my perspective. Got all the trophies and the platinum. I'm going to say that I enjoyed my time with it, even if all the critiques are more than valid. The saddest part of the game is just that it had potential to be good, but it just does the bare minimum the whole time.
Thank you for at least trying Jon. I feel the game gets too much hate. That's not to say it's a good game, though. I had fun with Forces. I enjoyed the gameplay. Especially the music. But that's where my like for it ends really. The story is laughably bad and the levels far too short. I tried playing it again myself a few weeks back and just as I was getting into this one level and the music starting to pick up, the level ended...I want to defend Forces at times people hate on it so much. But it's easily one of the most forgettable Sonic games I've played.
Never played the Boom games because of the character design but have always been curious because... it's still a Sonic game. I had the same feelings about Forces lately, wondering if I should give it another shot. But I completely agree that it was just a massive nothing game and I barely even remember playing it. Gameplay footage even looks new to me at times. So thanks for replaying this for me and letting me know I can remove it from the back of my mind.
To be honest: I really liked Sonic Forces. It wasn't the best Sonic game, but surely not the worst. And for what I enjoyed in Sonic games, it delivered enough to keep me entertained. Most of the things that Jon mentions are correct, but if you enjoy mindless speed stages, you can have a lot of fun with it.
The only thing I have to tell people who play this for the first time is that in a Sonic game with TWO playable Sonic characters in it, the Avatar is the one with the best stages and the best music. And since you can customize that character (most notably the weapon), it changes how you speed through the stages. To me, it is really fun.
I often feel like people look down on you if you enjoy a game (or a movie or whatever) that is universally hated. If you find some enjoyment in it, then it has its right to exist. And you should never apologize for liking it, because "taste" is something that will always differ, depending on who you ask.
I don't get that last bit on "ambition." I get enjoying the idea of something or doing something different but if I'm going to judge something for what it is, Sonic 06 is just a bad but larger version of SA1. Sonic colors trims the fat of extra game styles but waters down everything from the previous game and Sonic Labyrinth is a test of your patience. I think my main problem with the "ambition" angle with sonic games is that the games people tend to defend tend to have a better version where we already know what it being good looks like. There's no mystery, there's no what if; we already have it and they can't live up the the bar already set, so I guess my saving grace with Forces is that it managed to pass the bar that was Sonic Colors for me. The last boost styled game that the lead game director made; so to me, that sense of growth is better than JUST trying to chase past coattails with a new coat of paint.