So this section is going to need some work but thankfully it’s an easy fix. If you look closely you should see that the rhythm of this section isn’t actually a polyrhythm. If you count the rests as part of the rhythm and ignore the inner voice you’ll notice that there’s a total of 48 32nd notes per measure in the treble section and 24 notes per measure in the bass portion, meaning an easy 2:1 ratio (like playing a series of 8th notes over a series of quarter notes, only much faster). For practice, I’d recommend ignoring the inner voice and practice the outer voices while keeping in mind that there should be (including rests as “notes”) two notes in the right hand for ever one note in the left. Play it slowly until you can bring it up to speed, and then work on adding the inner voice melody
Thanks for the tip! The only reason I referred to it as a polyrhythm is because I saw several people online mention this section as having polyrhythms, but your explanation makes sense. I know the section where the voices come in and the jump happens is messed up, especially the jump. But am I playing the first run correctly? Because it sounds close to what I hear on recordings. Honestly for the jump to make it fit the rhythm and sound smooth I may have to do what cyprien katsaris does and just play the top note with my right hand (even though that's kind of cheating). Also to bring out the inner melody on the first 2 notes I was trying a true legato fingering with 1 on A and then 2 on the b flat, but that seemed to make it harder.
@@JG_1998 not quite, though it’s honestly difficult to tell what the exact issue is without seeing/hearing in person. It sounds like you’re rushing the 3rd and 4th notes in the right hand arpeggio. If I’m not mishearing that, the issue would be that you’re trying to play with too much vibrato or you right and ring finger is a little bit weak and is having difficulty playing exactly when you want it to play. Try pulling up the piece on musescore and set the playback speed to 50%, then play along to see if the way you play it lines up perfectly with the musescore version. Since musescore won’t have a rubato like in a human performance, you should be able to hear exactly where the notes should be
@@michaellessel5532 ok so I used musescore and it sounds way different, but I compared it to every actual performance of this piece by humans and it sounds like everyone is playing it pretty much the way I am, except I'm adding more rubato on the last 2 notes of the run. I think everyone (including myself) is just playing it wrong. But listen to Hamelin play it and tell me if you can hear the difference, because I'm really bad at being able to tell: /watch?v=UjVRwPNxVqk I think a lot of the reason it happens is because the intervals in between some of the notes in the arpeggio are massive so there's always going to be some unevenness. Especially with the crosses that span nearly an octave. The midi player doesn't have to take this into account so it plays them completely evenly lol.
@@JG_1998 So comparing the Hamelin example with yours, he does use a rubato within that run but the effect doesn’t sound out of place because he applies it just as much in the left hand as he does in the right, and when he doesn’t there’s a certain push and pull to how he speeds up certain notes and slows others down. Whereas in your performance the right hand has a more drastic rubato while the left hand plays more true to an even tempo, creating a rhythmic disparity. Personally, I’d recommend trying to play it more robotically and then adding more rubato later, but if you want to go straight for the sound of the Hamelin interpretation you’ll just have to keep practicing this passage until both hands have the same push and pull. Either way it shouldn’t be too hard to fix with sufficient practice. I had a similar difficulty with a Bach piece a while back
The Rachmaninoff piano competition is staring right now.
have been watching it!
So this section is going to need some work but thankfully it’s an easy fix. If you look closely you should see that the rhythm of this section isn’t actually a polyrhythm. If you count the rests as part of the rhythm and ignore the inner voice you’ll notice that there’s a total of 48 32nd notes per measure in the treble section and 24 notes per measure in the bass portion, meaning an easy 2:1 ratio (like playing a series of 8th notes over a series of quarter notes, only much faster). For practice, I’d recommend ignoring the inner voice and practice the outer voices while keeping in mind that there should be (including rests as “notes”) two notes in the right hand for ever one note in the left. Play it slowly until you can bring it up to speed, and then work on adding the inner voice melody
Thanks for the tip! The only reason I referred to it as a polyrhythm is because I saw several people online mention this section as having polyrhythms, but your explanation makes sense. I know the section where the voices come in and the jump happens is messed up, especially the jump. But am I playing the first run correctly? Because it sounds close to what I hear on recordings.
Honestly for the jump to make it fit the rhythm and sound smooth I may have to do what cyprien katsaris does and just play the top note with my right hand (even though that's kind of cheating).
Also to bring out the inner melody on the first 2 notes I was trying a true legato fingering with 1 on A and then 2 on the b flat, but that seemed to make it harder.
@@JG_1998 not quite, though it’s honestly difficult to tell what the exact issue is without seeing/hearing in person. It sounds like you’re rushing the 3rd and 4th notes in the right hand arpeggio. If I’m not mishearing that, the issue would be that you’re trying to play with too much vibrato or you right and ring finger is a little bit weak and is having difficulty playing exactly when you want it to play. Try pulling up the piece on musescore and set the playback speed to 50%, then play along to see if the way you play it lines up perfectly with the musescore version. Since musescore won’t have a rubato like in a human performance, you should be able to hear exactly where the notes should be
@@JG_1998 and again, I might just not be hearing it right since listening for mistakes is wayyyy easier to do in person
@@michaellessel5532 ok so I used musescore and it sounds way different, but I compared it to every actual performance of this piece by humans and it sounds like everyone is playing it pretty much the way I am, except I'm adding more rubato on the last 2 notes of the run. I think everyone (including myself) is just playing it wrong. But listen to Hamelin play it and tell me if you can hear the difference, because I'm really bad at being able to tell: /watch?v=UjVRwPNxVqk
I think a lot of the reason it happens is because the intervals in between some of the notes in the arpeggio are massive so there's always going to be some unevenness. Especially with the crosses that span nearly an octave. The midi player doesn't have to take this into account so it plays them completely evenly lol.
@@JG_1998 So comparing the Hamelin example with yours, he does use a rubato within that run but the effect doesn’t sound out of place because he applies it just as much in the left hand as he does in the right, and when he doesn’t there’s a certain push and pull to how he speeds up certain notes and slows others down. Whereas in your performance the right hand has a more drastic rubato while the left hand plays more true to an even tempo, creating a rhythmic disparity. Personally, I’d recommend trying to play it more robotically and then adding more rubato later, but if you want to go straight for the sound of the Hamelin interpretation you’ll just have to keep practicing this passage until both hands have the same push and pull. Either way it shouldn’t be too hard to fix with sufficient practice. I had a similar difficulty with a Bach piece a while back
Read Neuhaus, you need more freedom in your shoulders and arms, which will allow your wrists and elbows to be more flexible as well.
Dude I wish I had the same dexterity for polyrhythms as you ;____________;
Thanks! I never know if I'm really playing them correctly so it's good to get feedback.