Recently I was on a plane sitting next to a passenger holding your book. We talked about the struggles, and how ideas seem to have a mind of their own. But my struggle is how do you know that there is a devil, and that those bad ideas are simply manifestations of our thought process. You see, this takes control from my hands about what ideas I think about, and puts the control somewhere else. If I think of good ideas who's responsibility is that?! If I think of that ideas whose responsibility is that?!. Where is my will in all this? I know you speak to people who have prior belief in these unseen realms of angels and devils. But don't you think those supernatural worlds need to be proven first before you start contributing your good or bad behavior to them. What about personal responsibility? Doesn't each of us is responsible for the good and the bad that we perform on this Earth? It does not add up that our actions are being manipulated by unseen forces yet we are responsible fully for our actions, and not excused one bit about the influence the supernatural beings are exerting on us. Another important aspect if you believe that your thoughts are not your own whether good or bad you expend a lot of energy praying and fighting yourself for having these thoughts, that is proven not to work. By assuming that there are external factors acting on your mind, you relinquish any responsibility or action that you can take to mitigate those bad thoughts. Actions like therapy or psychotherapy.
I know this was two years ago, but I see that no one responded here, and I'd like to take a shot at it. I just finished the book now, and have had some of these same questions. So much respect to your journey to ask questions and seek further clarity. So I think you're asking, if our choices can be influenced by spiritual forces outside of us that we can't see ( I lust for my coworker and eventually commit adultery by sleeping with someone who is not my wife = devil on shoulder) or ... ( I suddenly feel compelled to feed the homeless or orphans who don't have daily breakfast, so I join a church group or soup kitchen etc etc = Angle on Shoulder ) - - - then why does God still hold us accountable for these choices if it's not 100% up to us? Right? Good summary of the question? Follow up question: do you think it will actually ever be possible to PROVE these unseen realms exist? There's a difference between evidence and proof - proof being that the culture or scientific body accepts something as consensus through rigorous repetition, the scientific method, or objective findings such as archaeological digs - and EVIDENCE - being the clues along the way that could eventually be Proof, but not quite there yet. Evidence is the things we typically discover along the way that points to a conclusion, but especially important in realms outside of science such as law, history, art, love and faith. We don't have test tubes that can prove the Spiritual worlds, nor will there ever be a definitive court case where Humanity tries the teachings of Jesus and comes up with a verdict, true or false. You know people try to do this all the time, and as you already know, humanity is split on the idea. So no, I don't think the unseen realms will ever be proven so that Headline news accepts them as real. But that doesn't mean they aren't - in fact I think that says more about how biased Humanity is when it comes to the MEDIA and our shortcomings to accept some realities we don't like or that don't make us money. Can it "add up" that our actions are influenced / manipulated by unseen forces and yet God still holds us mortals responsible? For me, absolutely. I agree that's it's a great moral question that is worth asking and I can understand the doubt of such a paradox. But if you take my initial examples: lusting for a coworker vs. Feeding the needy. In both cases, I would say if I feel such a nudge, that would be a nudge from and outside spiritual force. A devil on my shoulder telling me (a lie) that one-night-stand sex with my coworker would be better than 7 years of the same sex with my wife. Or an angel on my shoulder telling me to stop being selfish and go make meals for some hungry people, and I do. It starts with the nudge, but I make the decision. I'm not being "manipulated" in the end. I've been influenced, just like Advertising does all the time. But I am the one that goes to the register and pays for the transaction. I'm the one that eventually says "yes" to a one night stand, or "yes" to getting up on a saturday and making box lunches. I get the credit for carrying out the deed. But the credit of influence belongs to the Spiritual. And by the way, I had the ability to say NO to both of those at any time. That's where Free will kicks in. 2 Corinthians 5:10 " For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil." The spiritual forces do not have full control over the man or woman who repents and begins a relationship with God through faith in Christ - this new man or woman whom God saves now has the freedom of choice. I have seen this very clearly in my life. Before my Faith conversion, I felt very little guilt about habits of pornography in my life and enjoyed that as a so-called choice in my life, feeling I was choosing it and that I could walk away any time... but the reality was I couldn't walk away and didn't want to and even if I tried I wouldn't have been able. I was a slave to it, there was almost no ability that I had to walk away. Like a moth to the flame. I loved it and Lust controlled me. Ultimately - what is God judging us for? He does judge the deeds and the outcomes, yes (2 Cor. 5 says this) but at it's root, the core of what he's judging is our Faith in him. John 6: "28 - Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” It's the measure by which everything else will follow - BELIEF. So God judges the actions, but the primary action is our decision to Open ourselves to God and believe, or reject God and believe in ourselves instead. It all stems from this. I will be saved, in the end, not because of how many good deeds I've done in my life that outweigh the bad, but because I put my hope and faith in God and in his son that lived the life I never could prior to conversion. But AFTER conversion, I now have more Free Will than I ever had before. So I guess my question to you or anyone on the fence about these things is: do you truly think you're free? Do you really believe you are in control of all of your choices ... or are there some areas where you realize - oh that habit is sometimes out of my control - and I'm the one making the decision but it feels like I've been heavily influenced by something - for good or bad. Maybe it's coffee. Maybe it's sex. Maybe it's going to the gym and your body image. Maybe it's alcohol. Maybe it's social media and people's opinions of you ... or Twitter...your opinions. If you're being honest, isn't there something that heavily influences you , and you hardly have the ability to walk away that you think you might? If so - I recommend A) read through the new testament on your own and B) pick up Comer's book! It dives into these things and so much more. Conclusion: it is I that take the action when it comes to morality and I bear responsibility for the consequences of those actions, but the INFLUENCE for those actions in the cases of moral choices comes from SPIRITUAL forces outside of me. They do not cause the action. They whisper them. And it's up to me to cash the check and walk down that road. And thanks to Faith, I now have the ability to exercise self control and free will to choose like I never use to before. I believe God is just in judging humanity for our choices that lead to Good or Evil - though we are caught up in the lies (or the beautiful truths) told to us by elements we can't see. Which makes me want to study Spirituality all the more
This was really good reminders and made me think of a specific situation in which I had not applied these principles. Looking forward to the next video!
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It’s soul refreshing when I pray to God for guidance he has brought me to listen to John Mark Comer and I get the healing I need
This book is amazing and challenging and convicting! I loved it!
Did you do study guide and stream…or just book?
I read the book
Thank you for this very detailed video. I can understand now why i have ups and downs. This reminds me of the truth my Jesus!
Recently I was on a plane sitting next to a passenger holding your book. We talked about the struggles, and how ideas seem to have a mind of their own. But my struggle is how do you know that there is a devil, and that those bad ideas are simply manifestations of our thought process. You see, this takes control from my hands about what ideas I think about, and puts the control somewhere else. If I think of good ideas who's responsibility is that?! If I think of that ideas whose responsibility is that?!.
Where is my will in all this? I know you speak to people who have prior belief in these unseen realms of angels and devils. But don't you think those supernatural worlds need to be proven first before you start contributing your good or bad behavior to them. What about personal responsibility? Doesn't each of us is responsible for the good and the bad that we perform on this Earth? It does not add up that our actions are being manipulated by unseen forces yet we are responsible fully for our actions, and not excused one bit about the influence the supernatural beings are exerting on us.
Another important aspect if you believe that your thoughts are not your own whether good or bad you expend a lot of energy praying and fighting yourself for having these thoughts, that is proven not to work. By assuming that there are external factors acting on your mind, you relinquish any responsibility or action that you can take to mitigate those bad thoughts. Actions like therapy or psychotherapy.
I know this was two years ago, but I see that no one responded here, and I'd like to take a shot at it. I just finished the book now, and have had some of these same questions. So much respect to your journey to ask questions and seek further clarity. So I think you're asking, if our choices can be influenced by spiritual forces outside of us that we can't see ( I lust for my coworker and eventually commit adultery by sleeping with someone who is not my wife = devil on shoulder) or ... ( I suddenly feel compelled to feed the homeless or orphans who don't have daily breakfast, so I join a church group or soup kitchen etc etc = Angle on Shoulder ) - - - then why does God still hold us accountable for these choices if it's not 100% up to us? Right? Good summary of the question?
Follow up question: do you think it will actually ever be possible to PROVE these unseen realms exist? There's a difference between evidence and proof - proof being that the culture or scientific body accepts something as consensus through rigorous repetition, the scientific method, or objective findings such as archaeological digs - and EVIDENCE - being the clues along the way that could eventually be Proof, but not quite there yet. Evidence is the things we typically discover along the way that points to a conclusion, but especially important in realms outside of science such as law, history, art, love and faith. We don't have test tubes that can prove the Spiritual worlds, nor will there ever be a definitive court case where Humanity tries the teachings of Jesus and comes up with a verdict, true or false. You know people try to do this all the time, and as you already know, humanity is split on the idea.
So no, I don't think the unseen realms will ever be proven so that Headline news accepts them as real. But that doesn't mean they aren't - in fact I think that says more about how biased Humanity is when it comes to the MEDIA and our shortcomings to accept some realities we don't like or that don't make us money.
Can it "add up" that our actions are influenced / manipulated by unseen forces and yet God still holds us mortals responsible?
For me, absolutely. I agree that's it's a great moral question that is worth asking and I can understand the doubt of such a paradox. But if you take my initial examples: lusting for a coworker vs. Feeding the needy. In both cases, I would say if I feel such a nudge, that would be a nudge from and outside spiritual force. A devil on my shoulder telling me (a lie) that one-night-stand sex with my coworker would be better than 7 years of the same sex with my wife. Or an angel on my shoulder telling me to stop being selfish and go make meals for some hungry people, and I do. It starts with the nudge, but I make the decision. I'm not being "manipulated" in the end. I've been influenced, just like Advertising does all the time. But I am the one that goes to the register and pays for the transaction. I'm the one that eventually says "yes" to a one night stand, or "yes" to getting up on a saturday and making box lunches. I get the credit for carrying out the deed. But the credit of influence belongs to the Spiritual. And by the way, I had the ability to say NO to both of those at any time. That's where Free will kicks in. 2 Corinthians 5:10 " For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."
The spiritual forces do not have full control over the man or woman who repents and begins a relationship with God through faith in Christ - this new man or woman whom God saves now has the freedom of choice. I have seen this very clearly in my life. Before my Faith conversion, I felt very little guilt about habits of pornography in my life and enjoyed that as a so-called choice in my life, feeling I was choosing it and that I could walk away any time... but the reality was I couldn't walk away and didn't want to and even if I tried I wouldn't have been able. I was a slave to it, there was almost no ability that I had to walk away. Like a moth to the flame. I loved it and Lust controlled me.
Ultimately - what is God judging us for? He does judge the deeds and the outcomes, yes (2 Cor. 5 says this) but at it's root, the core of what he's judging is our Faith in him. John 6: "28 - Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” 29Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” It's the measure by which everything else will follow - BELIEF. So God judges the actions, but the primary action is our decision to Open ourselves to God and believe, or reject God and believe in ourselves instead. It all stems from this. I will be saved, in the end, not because of how many good deeds I've done in my life that outweigh the bad, but because I put my hope and faith in God and in his son that lived the life I never could prior to conversion.
But AFTER conversion, I now have more Free Will than I ever had before. So I guess my question to you or anyone on the fence about these things is: do you truly think you're free? Do you really believe you are in control of all of your choices ... or are there some areas where you realize - oh that habit is sometimes out of my control - and I'm the one making the decision but it feels like I've been heavily influenced by something - for good or bad. Maybe it's coffee. Maybe it's sex. Maybe it's going to the gym and your body image. Maybe it's alcohol. Maybe it's social media and people's opinions of you ... or Twitter...your opinions. If you're being honest, isn't there something that heavily influences you , and you hardly have the ability to walk away that you think you might?
If so - I recommend A) read through the new testament on your own and B) pick up Comer's book! It dives into these things and so much more.
Conclusion: it is I that take the action when it comes to morality and I bear responsibility for the consequences of those actions, but the INFLUENCE for those actions in the cases of moral choices comes from SPIRITUAL forces outside of me. They do not cause the action. They whisper them. And it's up to me to cash the check and walk down that road. And thanks to Faith, I now have the ability to exercise self control and free will to choose like I never use to before. I believe God is just in judging humanity for our choices that lead to Good or Evil - though we are caught up in the lies (or the beautiful truths) told to us by elements we can't see. Which makes me want to study Spirituality all the more
This was really good reminders and made me think of a specific situation in which I had not applied these principles. Looking forward to the next video!
Wow! Thank you, this is refreshing.
Hallelujah hallelujah
I would live captions for videos so I can follow along. Hearing impaired. Thanks
Amen aleluya
Wow! Thank you, very refreshing for my soul!