I wonder of the outcome of Yamato reaching Okinawa if Amagi had sailed with the task group as a pure fighter carrier, loaded with Zero's. Probably would not have changed the outcome, but with 50 or 60 Zero's providing a CAP, the Hellcats would have to have dealt with them instead of strafing and supressing Yamato's gunners.
Japans problem at this point is not about the availability of aircraft but the lack of trained pilots to fly the planes. Had amagi was there to assess the Yamato, it will only resulted to the needless death of more Japanese pilots and navy crews.
@@andrewtaylor940 By this point in the war, Japanese naval units had to stay close to Borneo because they were burning the crude oil as bunker oil. Ships sent to home waters would find themselves trapped there because of a lack of fuel.
I love how the Japanese curved the exhaust vents over the portside of the ship. That strikes me as a rather smart thing to do. Was there a downside to doing that?
This is the first video about this ship I’ve ever seen I was always curious about the history when I saw the photos shows what could have happened if the carriers were actually in Pearl Harbor
Could we see a video on any of the non-Helena Brooklyns please? I feel like USS Honolulu would be a good candidate. Alongside a long service of shore bombardment, she served in the battle of Kula Gulf, where when directly wrecked the destroyer Nagatsuki and helped to sink the destroyer Niizuki but in turn witnessed the sinking of her half sistership Helena. She also served in the battle of Kolombangara, helping to sink the light cruiser Jintsu, but being crippled by a long lance torpedo that blew off her bow.
Marblehead - An Omaha class cruiser that saw combat in both the Atlantic and Pacific and steered with her engines for 16,000 miles after surviving her trial by combat.
Humerous yet Informative content. Skynea? Should be `Petrel Maru` - More Limeys please? Must say, always enjoy new content, and I`m sure, `Morale Boosters` should enter the WWII Lexicon.
Re air group 601 being on Amagi and Katsuragi, the Japanese usually assigned one air group to a carrier division. So two carriers sharing an Air Group is normal for the IJN though before 43 they weren't numbered
Dumb question , about the IJN aviation. If a Japanese Kate , Val or zero off of either zuikaku or shokaku that was present on the attack on Pearl Harbor wasn’t shot down or Damaged beyond repair. Would those same aircraft have stayed active until they were shot down. I’ve wondered if say any of the aircraft at the great marinas Turkey shoot were Pearl Harbor and coral sea veterans. Yes I do know that B6ns and Judy’s were beginning to be fielded but still my question stands
Any possible PH survivors would have still been on Zuikaku or Shokaku after Midway. When those two upgraded, the older model Kates, A6M-3 Zeroes and Vals would have been assigned to a training unit and then expended Kamikaze-style.
11:38 Two Unru-class carriers sailing with Yamato might have given her more time. One could have sailed on each side to absorb torpedo hits. Just load the flight decks with all the existing 25mms and spray and pray. The hangar would have held the ammo.
Meh...IJN ships overall proved "useful" for many a sea battle, resulting in tens of thousands of Allied deaths. I'm sure our boys preferred they weren't useful and I'm glad that's how things turned out.
I've read that that the Japanese navy did not have enough fuel to train it's cadet pilots and yet they had enough fuel for their kamikaze planes! In hindsight this was just a horrible waste of resources and doomed Japan to it's inevitable defeat.
Admiral Yamamoto knew Japan would lose the war of industrial might within months of Pearl Harbour. Furthermore the Battle of Coral Sea and Midway simply bled Japan of their precious fleet carriers, planes and veteran pilots. In-war builds were just insufficient to plug those losses and their empire expansion became their Achillies heel. Resources became harder to reach Japan and losses irreplacable.
They couldn’t build 9 Unryus instead of the 3 Yamatos for the simple reason the timing doesn’t work; the Unryus were designed because the Shokakus, which were designed and built at the same time as rhe Yamatos (being the carrier take on the superweapon concept), were taking just as long as the Yamatos to build and could only be built in limited numbers (even assuming the Yamatos never got built, because the issue was the number of building slips). In other words, Japan’s actually looking at much bigger carrier designs when the Yamatos are starting construction and the Unryus aren’t yet on the design board. The best you can do is to have 2 more Shokakus in place of Yamato and Musashi, with the one replacing Shinano not even coming online until 1944 because of how long the Shokakus took to build historically. Everyone assumes Japan could have somehow built the collective displacement of the Yamatos’ worth of extra carriers if the Yamatos never existed while completely ignoring the infrastructure bottleneck and the fact you can’t build more Unryus when the Unryus haven’t even been designed yet. Edit: And all of that doesn’t even cover how every major navy in WWII decided to throw budget and manpower away on building battleships for (what turned out to be) unjustifiable reasons.
It must be the height of arrogance to be laying down carriers and assume you will have the aircrews for them when you bushido decimate the aircrews you got instead of trying to keep them alive and have decided to go to war with America, knowing full well you cannot defeat America.... i mean, in what universe does it make any sense at all??
In Japanese circles it makes sense. Divine sacrifice for the God Emperor and the idea that, If they keep trying they will succeed or prove they have honor at least.
@@SS_Atlantic_Greyhound1119 Well may dead pilots have honor, but in no 'circles' do dead pilots fly planes from the new carriers your building, but this seems to be what the Japanese expect to happen!
According to some surviving staff, they were hoping that some divine miracle would save them (as had happened with the Mongol invaders) if they just held on long enough. Ironically, a few months after the surrender, a typhoon did sweep through which would have caused major damage to a US fleet engaging in the Invasion. That doesn’t mean it would have won them the war, but it is interesting.
I love that you keep shining light on more underrated ships that not many people have done videos about. Good job on the hard work.
I wonder of the outcome of Yamato reaching Okinawa if Amagi had sailed with the task group as a pure fighter carrier, loaded with Zero's. Probably would not have changed the outcome, but with 50 or 60 Zero's providing a CAP, the Hellcats would have to have dealt with them instead of strafing and supressing Yamato's gunners.
Japans problem at this point is not about the availability of aircraft but the lack of trained pilots to fly the planes. Had amagi was there to assess the Yamato, it will only resulted to the needless death of more Japanese pilots and navy crews.
By this date I doubt the Japanese even had enough fuel oil to sail the carrier.
They didn’t. Lack of fuel is why Sakawa didn’t go along.
They lacked the fuel oil for the ship and the aviation fuel or pilots to operate 50-60 zeros at once.
@@andrewtaylor940 By this point in the war, Japanese naval units had to stay close to Borneo because they were burning the crude oil as bunker oil. Ships sent to home waters would find themselves trapped there because of a lack of fuel.
I love how the Japanese curved the exhaust vents over the portside of the ship. That strikes me as a rather smart thing to do. Was there a downside to doing that?
The Original Amagi plays a pivotal role in the 1st three books of Taylor Andersons Destroyerman series I highly recommend them.
Taylor Anderson's Destroyermen series is outstanding! HIGHLY recommended!
As always, excellent video! 👍🏻👌🏻👏🏻
This is the first video about this ship I’ve ever seen I was always curious about the history when I saw the photos shows what could have happened if the carriers were actually in Pearl Harbor
Great content as always!
Another great video !! Well done!
Another fine video on a lesser known vessel 😎
Thanks for posting!
Very interesting topic keep it up the great content bro
Could we see a video on any of the non-Helena Brooklyns please? I feel like USS Honolulu would be a good candidate. Alongside a long service of shore bombardment, she served in the battle of Kula Gulf, where when directly wrecked the destroyer Nagatsuki and helped to sink the destroyer Niizuki but in turn witnessed the sinking of her half sistership Helena. She also served in the battle of Kolombangara, helping to sink the light cruiser Jintsu, but being crippled by a long lance torpedo that blew off her bow.
Boise
Marblehead - An Omaha class cruiser that saw combat in both the Atlantic and Pacific and steered with her engines for 16,000 miles after surviving her trial by combat.
USS Savanah would be more interesting. Surviving a frit X
@@issacfoster1113 For sure! One of them almost sank Warspite.
Great job thanks
Like number 800.. that's lucky right? I always enjoy the content Skynea History. 👍
can you talk about HMS Glowworm if you hewent dun that yeat
Humerous yet Informative content. Skynea? Should be `Petrel Maru` - More Limeys please? Must say, always enjoy new content, and I`m sure, `Morale Boosters` should enter the WWII Lexicon.
I wonder why these late war carriers never got the 10 cm dual purpose guns, but I guess supply of those were limited
Re air group 601 being on Amagi and Katsuragi, the Japanese usually assigned one air group to a carrier division. So two carriers sharing an Air Group is normal for the IJN though before 43 they weren't numbered
At least her crew mostly got off the ship. Yamato's crew was sacrificed so the IJN could say they helped defend Okinawa.
That's how war works, people die. The ships that took part on Ten-Go at least took their chance, instead of waiting to be bombed while on port.
Dumb question , about the IJN aviation. If a Japanese Kate , Val or zero off of either zuikaku or shokaku that was present on the attack on Pearl Harbor wasn’t shot down or Damaged beyond repair.
Would those same aircraft have stayed active until they were shot down.
I’ve wondered if say any of the aircraft at the great marinas Turkey shoot were Pearl Harbor and coral sea veterans.
Yes I do know that B6ns and Judy’s were beginning to be fielded but still my question stands
Any possible PH survivors would have still been on Zuikaku or Shokaku after Midway. When those two upgraded, the older model Kates, A6M-3 Zeroes and Vals would have been assigned to a training unit and then expended Kamikaze-style.
11:38 Two Unru-class carriers sailing with Yamato might have given her more time. One could have sailed on each side to absorb torpedo hits. Just load the flight decks with all the existing 25mms and spray and pray. The hangar would have held the ammo.
I am afraid we have awakened a sleeping giant.
These were beautiful ships, too bad they could not be useful.
Meh...IJN ships overall proved "useful" for many a sea battle, resulting in tens of thousands of Allied deaths. I'm sure our boys preferred they weren't useful and I'm glad that's how things turned out.
She would have been a beautiful battle cruiser
It was too late to do anything...except sink.
I've read that that the Japanese navy did not have enough fuel to train it's cadet pilots and yet they had enough fuel for their kamikaze planes! In hindsight this was just a horrible waste of resources and doomed Japan to it's inevitable defeat.
Admiral Yamamoto knew Japan would lose the war of industrial might within months of Pearl Harbour. Furthermore the Battle of Coral Sea and Midway simply bled Japan of their precious fleet carriers, planes and veteran pilots.
In-war builds were just insufficient to plug those losses and their empire expansion became their Achillies heel. Resources became harder to reach Japan and losses irreplacable.
Japan resorted to Kamikazes BECAUSE of running out of trained pilots.
👍🏻🏴
It's almost as if Japan would have been better off building some wooden decoys for use as antiaircraft traps.
If they had built 9 of these instead of the 3 Yamato class battleships. The war might have went different if they were in service in mid 1942
They couldn’t build 9 Unryus instead of the 3 Yamatos for the simple reason the timing doesn’t work; the Unryus were designed because the Shokakus, which were designed and built at the same time as rhe Yamatos (being the carrier take on the superweapon concept), were taking just as long as the Yamatos to build and could only be built in limited numbers (even assuming the Yamatos never got built, because the issue was the number of building slips). In other words, Japan’s actually looking at much bigger carrier designs when the Yamatos are starting construction and the Unryus aren’t yet on the design board.
The best you can do is to have 2 more Shokakus in place of Yamato and Musashi, with the one replacing Shinano not even coming online until 1944 because of how long the Shokakus took to build historically.
Everyone assumes Japan could have somehow built the collective displacement of the Yamatos’ worth of extra carriers if the Yamatos never existed while completely ignoring the infrastructure bottleneck and the fact you can’t build more Unryus when the Unryus haven’t even been designed yet.
Edit: And all of that doesn’t even cover how every major navy in WWII decided to throw budget and manpower away on building battleships for (what turned out to be) unjustifiable reasons.
How do you account for the planes, trained crews, fuel, etc.?
Funny thing about hindsight, you never know until it's too late
Might have delayed the war a bit,but it would have ended the same.Or maybe even worse for Japan.
All commissioned up, and no planes to fly.
It must be the height of arrogance to be laying down carriers and assume you will have the aircrews for them when you bushido decimate the aircrews you got instead of trying to keep them alive and have decided to go to war with America, knowing full well you cannot defeat America.... i mean, in what universe does it make any sense at all??
In Japanese circles it makes sense. Divine sacrifice for the God Emperor and the idea that, If they keep trying they will succeed or prove they have honor at least.
@@SS_Atlantic_Greyhound1119 Well may dead pilots have honor, but in no 'circles' do dead pilots fly planes from the new carriers your building, but this seems to be what the Japanese expect to happen!
According to some surviving staff, they were hoping that some divine miracle would save them (as had happened with the Mongol invaders) if they just held on long enough. Ironically, a few months after the surrender, a typhoon did sweep through which would have caused major damage to a US fleet engaging in the Invasion. That doesn’t mean it would have won them the war, but it is interesting.
@@thomasbeach905 fate must of heard them but placed them on hold for too long. Then once he got back to them, too late.
@@thomasbeach905 Well may that be true, but it doesn't explain putting carriers into production that you will never have the pilots for.
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