I feel like sometimes recording with a headphone on kind of gives me anxiety because I'm more worried about how my voice sounds in the actual performance
Holy crap, I never would've never imagined this. It's so simple and such common sense that the second you said everything had to be the same and you're recording a noise track it hit me. Btw, been watching a lot of for videos and really dig them. I especially appreciate how you break everything down into very simple explanations (particularly when you draw what you're doing). Thanks!
Amir Grant This technique gets vocalists very comfortable so they can hit pitches and get better takes. Regarding your question, I might opt for headphones and I would try a few things. 1. EQ out some of the high end (and a little from the low end to balance it out) and the vocalist's ear will get used to it. 2. Try different headphones, like a closed design, or ones that don't have a lot of bleed. 3. Turn down the headphones. Vocalists can judge pitch better at lower volumes. Scientific tests show that lower pitches are perceived lower, and higher pitches sound higher at loud volumes. 4. Change the mix that the vocalist is hearing to only include other vocalists, or only elements of the song that are absolutely needed. Take the hihat and cymbals down, and any percussion that often bleeds out of headphones.
Thanks, Ryan. I just thought about something. What if you simply have a vocalist stand in front of the mic as if they were going to record and record nothing but the bleed coming from the headphones they are wearing? And then record the take from the vocalist standing in the exact same spot? That would leave you with two tracks. The actual take which may have a little bleed in it and the headphone bleed track. Now what if you use your phase flip idea on the headphone bleed track and blend it with the actual take? Wouldn't that make just the headphone bleed cancel out and leave you the vocal? Just a thought...
This is the most important sound-tech video ever! Thank you! I already found out that singing without headphones gives better musical results but you guys came up with this genius simple solution for the bleeding. Why didn't I think of it? :) Thanks guys!!
Fantastic video. I think a lot of cues in singing come from the head, subtle resonance and so forth. These cues are seriously dulled (dampened effectively) with a headphone on. I'm glad you've found you can get bleed down to about a headphone level. And of course, the bleed will typically just reinforce some of the track and ought to be dealt with through mixing and eq. Fantastic. Thank you!
Awesome! I had this idea rolling in my head (flipping the polarity of the noise, the same like balanced signals do for reducing noise) for some time for the exact same issue. I want my musicians to feel as comfy as possible during the recording process because it will affect their moods and in turn reflect on the music and decision making for takes and sound, believe it or not. I am happy somebody actually did this and it gave me the balls to try it out. Tnx again ryan!
Ryan Ulyate said he recorded Mudcrutch using wedge monitors and no headphones and then after that ended up recording The Heartbreakers that way. I am going to try it with a band I am recording in a couple weeks.
I love inverse phase wizardry. I'm actually surprised the bleed didn't almost completely disappear. Shows how much can change even when all settings are the same and the only variable is the person standing at the mic and the gear reacting slightly different.
Thanks for another great video, Ryan. I might try the phase reversal technique to deal with a slight hum from my guitar amp: record the guitar part and then subtract a noise-only take with the phase reversed: it should work, right?
HI! Thanks for the great tip:-). I've just tried it, when I had to record 2 children in my studio. Followed your instructions, and I could remove 80-90% of the bleed from the vocal tracks and the children were more relaxed, so it worked like a charm:-)
Good tip. I know a lot of vocalists who don't like to be "closed in" by headphones...though I also know a few that love the isolation/experience of headphones (with verb) in a vocal booth, where they feel they can "cut loose" without anyone seeing them. The noise track in your example, worked really well to mitigate bleed. Though even the raw vocal had good enough signal/noise ratio that it would have been fine in most mixes.
Stephen Tack Thanks. I thought so too, that the noise wasn't that bad. Some really get concerned about the smallest bleed, but I've learned when it is a problem and when it's not.
I always used invert phase for getting rid of heavy "s" sounds but I never thought to use it to cancel out background noise. This was very informative, thank you.
Just came across this video. Always enjoy your videos. They make you think outside the box, different perspectives You have amazing gear to work with. Thanks heaps
I couldn't understand it at first, but now I get it. So there's 2 separate steps/recordings involved here: 1. record your vocalist with music in the background, then after that 2. record the music in the background alone without vocalist singing with the same mic as in step 1. Then mix those two tracks. Quite creative approach, well done.
Chris Isaak recording Wicked Game using this idea. He sang his vocals in the control room while the mix was played softly through the main monitors. 👍🏼
You could also try a variant whereby you do in fact use a pair of speakers, and set the speakers and mic up in a perfect triangle, and flip the left and right speakers out of phase with each other. The result will be that in the middle where the mic is, you'll get quite a bit of cancellation to begin with...(depending on how well matched the speakers are I guess)...but the singers ears will still hear the sound but just sort of "panned hard left/right. Then add in your trick of the out of phase recorded track too...end result might be even quieter...might be fun to try it? The other reason why your trick is very cool is that the singer is hearing themselves with true zero-latency...it doesn't get any better than that...
This is a great and well explained tutorial. Me as a singer I don't really like having headphones to hear the music and my own singing. But, I became crazy and I think that the best acoustic treatment is recording in a park under big trees (try to choose a day when there's no wind or rain, of course). I'm gonna give a try
+Emmett Redding Yeah, I used it for a while, and I'm trying out Reaper now. There's a lot about Ableton Live that is really simple and nice to use. A DAW is just a way to record sounds, unless you need advanced editing and features.
I was the 100th like, you are welcome sir. I just put in a very nice vocal booth and it is absolutely obnoxious standing in there and trying to perform lol Phase is as helpful as it is detrimental. Great vids my dude!
Dude, that's Brilliant ! Can't wait to try it out. One question - do you then bounce both tracks together as one ? Thanks for the great tip. Cheers, Dave Dwyer
I love the concept here. I think of the Pixies song Hey which was basically recorded live. Gil Norton placed the vocal mic in a cupboard and Black Francis had to kind of lean his head in there while playing to provide some isolation. You gotta do whatever it takes to get the best performance. Most bands who isolate vocals and such get horrible results because the environment is so foreign and like you say, singing to a headphone mix is hellish. Question: Do you use a cardiode mic as opposed to an omni-directional?
I think this is how Dave Gahan from Depeche Mode records his vocals now. Or at least on the last three albums. I believe he uses a Shure 7smb. Really cool. Thanks for sharing Ryan.
I'm curious if this can be done to get bleed out of live recordings(like get guitar bleed out of overhead mics) or if you could eliminate hihat bleed in a snare by multing a close mic hihat track and inverting the phase, then printing the results to a track to mix in. Been working on a track I didn't record with horrible hat bleed on the snare(I'm guessing they recorded it with a condenser and noise rejection was not thought of)
Great tutorial Ryan, as always. Some people have been pretty negative in the comments about this technique. I've heard quite a few stems from pro, modern sessions (Coldplay, Fix You for example.) with so much bleed, you'd think they were recorded in front of line array. They coulda used you on that session! When you use this technique, have you compressed vocals on the way in? I feel like you would hear phase and volume changes between the two tracks, as one track would be pushing and pulling the noise floor by the vocal. I've only tried this method without compression on the way in (with great success), Thoughts?
Hi Jason, yeah I don't know of a way that you could compress and then go back and get the noise out. You really need to record a dry vocal, then go back and record the noise only with the vocalist standing at the mic. You could mult the signal at the patch bay and send them a compressed/reverbed vocal track, but that would be besides the point of avoiding headphones. It's really a technique that you play the vocal track back through a compressor after you sum the out of phase noise, with the dry vocal. Then compress.
I have a question for a long time now,if someone can answer this to me I would appreciate it.In the studio,why do singers record themselves using headphones on? I mean,if the music plays in their ears how can they just sing correctly? I tried that and I couldn't hear myself singing in order to sing good,so in this case the vocals were bad.I don't really understand this.
Couldn’t you also grab the noise profile from the noise track and use it with a noise reduction plugin on the vocal track? Or do you think that might be overprocessing? Just a thought.
Hi!Ryan.When recording the noise track,you said let the singer behind the mic.The word "behind" really make me confusing.That means is to let the singer stand in the original position(as the same position as when recording vocal track)?Sorry, my native language is not English.
Would you reccomend leaving the bleed in if it's a quite dry mix? So it would give the mix some room sound or more space/depth. Just asking, maybe it's a not so clever question, I haven't experimented with this techniqe yet. Thanks for the vids. - JCB
I wouldn't, but it's not the end of the world if you don't compress super hard. when you compress, it'll just bring all that bleed up with will be a pretty good editing job to go in and take it out between phrases.
Hi Ryan, I like this idea and I'm definitely going to be trying this out but I have one question; when you say keep everything the same between both tracks, is that just gain, volume, mic placement, etc... or does that include compression, EQ, and any other effects? Thanks!
+Andrew Cheeseman I would not use any compression or any effects at all until you have a chance to bounce the two tracks (both at 0 on the fader) to make the clean track. Then with this cleaned up track you can add compression and other effects. You have to treat the vocal first with the noise track.
would this work with loud headphones? just to reduce the volume further in a situation where you don't have the space for speakers or those that can sing well with cans?
James Horan Not really. This technique works because the speaker location doesn't change. There's just no way to do it with headphones that are moving around with someone's head. I would recommend EQing out some of the high end of your headphone mix(and some of the lows too in order to make it sound right) or change headphones.
so to clarify, what do you mean by stand behind the mic? like actually stand facing the back of the mic, or stand facing the mic? I really wanna try this! and is it okay to have reverb and stuff or do you need to keep every effect you apply at recording? like some vocalists want comfort reverb and dont actually use that in the mix!
Yes, record the noise tracks with the vocalist at the same position when they were when they were singing. I would keep the effects to the mixing, as nothing from the mic should be coming out of the speakers.
ahhhh okay lol! just making sure! and right, nothing coming out of the speakers from the mic so there would be no need for effects, i see! thanks so much, your awsome!
this is fucking fantastic!! for years I've liked the sound of my voice when i sing in the room and then feel let down when i do the final vocal takes on cans, sometimes I've even used the takes in the room rather than cans as they have more feel even tho theres this background bleed that fucks the mix a little but fuck it! i just tried this technique and oh my fucking days it works like fuck, thank you man, this is a huge help to me!!!!!
Many thanks for your tips dude, I mean Ryan that's your name right. I just fixed my micro it sound better u know open it up do some tweaking. I did the room noise canceling thing not sure how it work but I record a noise only file put some noise removal on it. Not the way u done it. Anywho I just recorded a mix, I hope it came out good I am just an amateur but I learn much from your video.
+Rock&Roll Hey thanks for saying hello. You bring up a good point. For this technique, you don't need any noise cancelation or plug ins. Just recording your noise track without touching anything, and flip the polarity of the noise track to reduce that noise.
Im new to recording and am not overly familiar with phases, so just a quick question. Do I switch the phase of BOTH tracks, or just one or the other. Thanks!
Yeah, considering I record mostly punk bands, sticking the vocalist in a tiny booth that feels like a cell is just kinda cruel. I like to use the "mini-booth" box lined with high-density foam, so the mic is isolated from the monitors but my ears are not, but not all vocalists like that....and it's not exactly sanitary.....
creativesoundlab Those are ok, but they only block the direct projection from the monitors, not reflections in the room. The box I use is pretty well sealed once I stick my mug up on it, and as an added bonus, it didn't cost me 120 bucks. The downside is that it *can* make things come out "boxy" sounding, but it really depends on the vocal, the mic, and the box itself and what it is lined with. I've inhaled enough pulverized insulation for several lifetimes, so I went with foam. I find ways to work around the flaws. I bigger box and extra layers of foam might have been helpful, hard to say though. If I keep the monitors turned down fairly low and use a gate, it allows me to just sit back a little from the edge of the box instead of trying to create a seal, and that seems to alleviate the "boxyness" of my box.....I said box.
Thank you so much for this technique! I hate singing with headphones. They throw my pitch way off and in the back of my mind I'm constantly thinking about how bad I sound through them. So after watching this I started using a small monitor that I set up near my mic stand and I have been getting great takes over and over again. And what a time saver! Barely any pitch correction or time adjustments needed because I can get it right the first time. But I do have a quick question that I think I know the answer to but I'll ask anyway because it just crossed my mind. Lets say you needed to do some heavy handed editing. Would you edit both tracks as a grouped pair or would you render them to a single track first?
creativesoundlab I got a good question for you. And I pray to God that you can answer it because it is a mystery I have been trying to find out for a long time. How the heck do you get vocals with NO BLEED? Some say it is impossible but...when I listen to versions of commercial songs in acapella, the bleed just magically goes away. Sounds like the bleed was never there, I do not hear all that track noise in the background of their vocals. All I hear is them. How is this accomplished??? I MUST know!
Great video, dude! Awesome trick with the phase cancelation! Just wanted to chime in here: I once recorded at choir and didn't have enough headphones for all of the singers and as a result of that I placed speakers in the live room. Put up a mic in figure-8 in the middle of the room, placed the singers in the front and back of the mic and placed the speaker on the left and right side of the figure-8´s null position (if that makes sense). I then flipped the phase of the two speakers and found the spot for the mic (in between the speakers) that canceled out the sound the most = lots of choir, minimum speaker bleed :-) I btw always record my own vocals without headphones, love it! The only downside is, if a little bit of pitch correction is needed afterwards, that can become troublesome...but who needs that with the "no headphones technique" ;-) Oh and another thing. Would you mix the the "vocal track" and the "out of phase track" down to one track, before EQing and so on? I mean, in theory, everything you do to the "vocal track" should also be done to the "out of phase track"...IN THEORY that is...
Yes, I would sum the "Noise" track and the "Vocal" track down to one track, before EQing. Very important. I've also done this technique with a group of people singing, and it worked. I haven't tried the phase trick with a choir yet.
Great stuff bro. One thing, what do you mean by "stand BEHIND the mic".. do you mean stand in the null? Or, am I still going to stand in "singing" position minus the singing?
+Scotty Hills Hey Thanks Scott. Yeah, you want your singer to stand there like they usually do. After they nail a few good takes that you think that you are sure they will want to use, go ahead and record a "noise" track with them standing behind the mic, just like they are singing. Try to get them to breath quietly and about as close as they were to the mic when singing. You only have to do this for the portions when they are singing, so you can skip over any guitar solos or instrumental portions to speed things up.
Interesting the video and the comments don't mention how/when to combine the 2 tracks at the end. Point being, you're going to be doing post processing to the vocal track that has noise after you record it. If you don't permanently combine them before doing any EQ or compression etc this process isn't going to work great. Maybe I missed it?
I think a serious professional singer will spend hours and hours every day getting used to headphones so that they don't affect their performance whatsoever... For the rest of us, this technique is amazing. 😂It's great because as you point out what really counts is having the best possible performance.
goodmusic4eva Great question. The sound that you are hearing in the example is not headphones, but it is actually the speaker in the same room with the vocalist microphone. If you find you are still getting too much bleed you can add deadening material such as blankets or sound panels around where the microphone is. You can also have the vocalist stand closer to the microphone. Make sure you are using a cardioid pattern microphone. You can also try a different microphone that may give better results. (My AT4040 works a little better than my 414B-ULS for example) You can also use a high quality dynamic microphone such as a 441, SM7 or RE20.
A fine idea but when you do it in the same room your vocal mic will most likely pick up what's coming from the studio monitors. Trust me I've experienced it. Listen back and isolate the vocal and you'll hear some of the song (the rest of the instruments) in the vocal track
Creative Sound Lab while I appreciate your approach and no doubt it works well for the vocalist - you can still definitely hear the mix in the vocal track. It's very much there
👎 I'm just hearing what it sound like I'm not seeing how it's done. Then all that is too much just put the headphone an get it done studio time cost money
I feel like sometimes recording with a headphone on kind of gives me anxiety because I'm more worried about how my voice sounds in the actual performance
As soon as I realized where you were going with those, I said: "Genius."
Very, very nice technique.
Thanks!
Holy crap, I never would've never imagined this. It's so simple and such common sense that the second you said everything had to be the same and you're recording a noise track it hit me.
Btw, been watching a lot of for videos and really dig them. I especially appreciate how you break everything down into very simple explanations (particularly when you draw what you're doing). Thanks!
Amir Grant This technique gets vocalists very comfortable so they can hit pitches and get better takes. Regarding your question, I might opt for headphones and I would try a few things. 1. EQ out some of the high end (and a little from the low end to balance it out) and the vocalist's ear will get used to it. 2. Try different headphones, like a closed design, or ones that don't have a lot of bleed. 3. Turn down the headphones. Vocalists can judge pitch better at lower volumes. Scientific tests show that lower pitches are perceived lower, and higher pitches sound higher at loud volumes. 4. Change the mix that the vocalist is hearing to only include other vocalists, or only elements of the song that are absolutely needed. Take the hihat and cymbals down, and any percussion that often bleeds out of headphones.
+creativesoundlab is the vocal and the noise track bused together to make the noise cancel out
Thanks, Ryan. I just thought about something. What if you simply have a vocalist stand in front of the mic as if they were going to record and record nothing but the bleed coming from the headphones they are wearing? And then record the take from the vocalist standing in the exact same spot? That would leave you with two tracks. The actual take which may have a little bleed in it and the headphone bleed track. Now what if you use your phase flip idea on the headphone bleed track and blend it with the actual take? Wouldn't that make just the headphone bleed cancel out and leave you the vocal? Just a thought...
This is the most important sound-tech video ever! Thank you!
I already found out that singing without headphones gives better musical results but you guys came up with this genius simple solution for the bleeding. Why didn't I think of it? :) Thanks guys!!
Schilliebillie Glad I could help you out!
This video and all the ones I've just watched are AWESOME! I am now a subscriber!
Support Ryan on Patreon! Every little bit helps out. He takes a ton of time making these and answering every question that he gets asked.
Fantastic video. I think a lot of cues in singing come from the head, subtle resonance and so forth. These cues are seriously dulled (dampened effectively) with a headphone on. I'm glad you've found you can get bleed down to about a headphone level. And of course, the bleed will typically just reinforce some of the track and ought to be dealt with through mixing and eq. Fantastic. Thank you!
You really live up to your channel's name. love it!
Thanks!
Man, I just watched 4 or 5 videos in this channel. You nail it, man. I just subscribed.
Nice, glad to have you here!
Very clever tip! I will be using it. Thanks!
Awesome! I had this idea rolling in my head (flipping the polarity of the noise, the same like balanced signals do for reducing noise) for some time for the exact same issue. I want my musicians to feel as comfy as possible during the recording process because it will affect their moods and in turn reflect on the music and decision making for takes and sound, believe it or not. I am happy somebody actually did this and it gave me the balls to try it out.
Tnx again ryan!
+Gregor Bajc Thanks man. Glad you found it helpful.
Ryan Ulyate said he recorded Mudcrutch using wedge monitors and no headphones and then after that ended up recording The Heartbreakers that way. I am going to try it with a band I am recording in a couple weeks.
I love inverse phase wizardry. I'm actually surprised the bleed didn't almost completely disappear. Shows how much can change even when all settings are the same and the only variable is the person standing at the mic and the gear reacting slightly different.
Thanks for another great video, Ryan. I might try the phase reversal technique to deal with a slight hum from my guitar amp: record the guitar part and then subtract a noise-only take with the phase reversed: it should work, right?
Great idea! I'll test it tomorrow as I have vocals recording session. Cheers man!
HI! Thanks for the great tip:-). I've just tried it, when I had to record 2 children in my studio. Followed your instructions, and I could remove 80-90% of the bleed from the vocal tracks and the children were more relaxed, so it worked like a charm:-)
Oh nice! Glad it worked so well.
Good tip.
I know a lot of vocalists who don't like to be "closed in" by headphones...though I also know a few that love the isolation/experience of headphones (with verb) in a vocal booth, where they feel they can "cut loose" without anyone seeing them.
The noise track in your example, worked really well to mitigate bleed. Though even the raw vocal had good enough signal/noise ratio that it would have been fine in most mixes.
Stephen Tack Thanks. I thought so too, that the noise wasn't that bad. Some really get concerned about the smallest bleed, but I've learned when it is a problem and when it's not.
I always used invert phase for getting rid of heavy "s" sounds but I never thought to use it to cancel out background noise. This was very informative, thank you.
+FortyCalCarter Thanks!
Just came across this video. Always enjoy your videos. They make you think outside the box, different perspectives You have amazing gear to work with. Thanks heaps
Thanks Scott!
Great idea! I'm definitely going to use it. Thank you!
Alberto Artilheiro Thanks glad I could help.
Keep it up, man. You have incredibly useful videos.
Thank you for your work!
GhostsonAcid Thank you.
hey thanks for this video i will be using this technique for sure !!!!
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU....I FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE FEELING THE MUSIC WHILE RECORDING
+Maynor Montalvan (Maynor3m) Nice! Yeah, it's not for every situation, but it this technique can be a life saver when you needed.
I couldn't understand it at first, but now I get it. So there's 2 separate steps/recordings involved here:
1. record your vocalist with music in the background, then after that
2. record the music in the background alone without vocalist singing with the same mic as in step 1.
Then mix those two tracks. Quite creative approach, well done.
+Andy G.G - Alternative Music Channel Yep you got it. Let me know if it works for you.
This is super cool. I'm surprised it was as effective as it is, because phase can be pretty precise. Also, interesting that you record in Ableton!
I go back and forth between Ableton and other DAWs.
Chris Isaak recording Wicked Game using this idea. He sang his vocals in the control room while the mix was played softly through the main monitors. 👍🏼
You could also try a variant whereby you do in fact use a pair of speakers, and set the speakers and mic up in a perfect triangle, and flip the left and right speakers out of phase with each other. The result will be that in the middle where the mic is, you'll get quite a bit of cancellation to begin with...(depending on how well matched the speakers are I guess)...but the singers ears will still hear the sound but just sort of "panned hard left/right. Then add in your trick of the out of phase recorded track too...end result might be even quieter...might be fun to try it? The other reason why your trick is very cool is that the singer is hearing themselves with true zero-latency...it doesn't get any better than that...
+Huxxy Yeah, I'm aware of that technique. I've never tried it but I need to.
how high quality does my mic need to be when using this technique?
Nice one Ryan, i will use it tomorrow on choir recordings :)
Can't wait to try it !
thanks for the innovative idea!
Yiannis,
MMS Manosound Studios
extremely helpful video, I never would have thought to try this trick THANK YOU!
Travis Seifert Thanks! Let me know how it works for you!
This is a great and well explained tutorial. Me as a singer I don't really like having headphones to hear the music and my own singing. But, I became crazy and I think that the best acoustic treatment is recording in a park under big trees (try to choose a day when there's no wind or rain, of course). I'm gonna give a try
If you can flip the phase on one of your monitors, it would do something similar or maybe better. Great video.
Yes that works well too.
super awesome vid man! i love it! im gona try it! cuz ur so right im a vocalist and its so much better without headphones!
I always have trouble singing with headphones. this is pretty cool.
Cool that your using ableton. I use it and i hardly ever see anyone else using it for nn-electronic music. cool stuff.
+Emmett Redding Yeah, I used it for a while, and I'm trying out Reaper now. There's a lot about Ableton Live that is really simple and nice to use. A DAW is just a way to record sounds, unless you need advanced editing and features.
I was the 100th like, you are welcome sir.
I just put in a very nice vocal booth and it is absolutely obnoxious standing in there and trying to perform lol Phase is as helpful as it is detrimental. Great vids my dude!
+R.J.W. Sounds (Official) Thanks man!
Dude, that's Brilliant ! Can't wait to try it out. One question - do you then bounce both tracks together as one ? Thanks for the great tip.
Cheers,
Dave Dwyer
Very nice video great work I've not used abelton live software
You could even take this a little further and sidechain compress the extra noise using the vocals
I love the concept here. I think of the Pixies song Hey which was basically recorded live. Gil Norton placed the vocal mic in a cupboard and Black Francis had to kind of lean his head in there while playing to provide some isolation. You gotta do whatever it takes to get the best performance. Most bands who isolate vocals and such get horrible results because the environment is so foreign and like you say, singing to a headphone mix is hellish. Question: Do you use a cardiode mic as opposed to an omni-directional?
How do you like your Focal solo 6 BE? How about staging and bass response?
I have heard about this technique, thanks for the video. what microphone is recommended for this? could I use a handheld mic?
I think this is how Dave Gahan from Depeche Mode records his vocals now. Or at least on the last three albums. I believe he uses a Shure 7smb. Really cool. Thanks for sharing Ryan.
Sure thing man!
Subtraction Rocks! Great technique, I'll have to try it.
+Jason Starr Thanks!
Interesting, thanks for the tip / video.
+soolan11 Sure!
Great tip, but it all depends on the vocalist how they feel. Some like headphones, some live. In the end the result is the important. Thanks again.
RecordingStudio9.com yes of coarse. I usually use this trick on inexperienced vocalist that don't know how to hand the effects of headphones.
This singer was quite soft. Would this work with someone who sings more powerfully so would need a louder monitor mix?
I'm curious if this can be done to get bleed out of live recordings(like get guitar bleed out of overhead mics) or if you could eliminate hihat bleed in a snare by multing a close mic hihat track and inverting the phase, then printing the results to a track to mix in. Been working on a track I didn't record with horrible hat bleed on the snare(I'm guessing they recorded it with a condenser and noise rejection was not thought of)
No, it wouldn't work.
Great tutorial Ryan, as always. Some people have been pretty negative in the comments about this technique. I've heard quite a few stems from pro, modern sessions (Coldplay, Fix You for example.) with so much bleed, you'd think they were recorded in front of line array. They coulda used you on that session! When you use this technique, have you compressed vocals on the way in? I feel like you would hear phase and volume changes between the two tracks, as one track would be pushing and pulling the noise floor by the vocal. I've only tried this method without compression on the way in (with great success), Thoughts?
Hi Jason, yeah I don't know of a way that you could compress and then go back and get the noise out. You really need to record a dry vocal, then go back and record the noise only with the vocalist standing at the mic. You could mult the signal at the patch bay and send them a compressed/reverbed vocal track, but that would be besides the point of avoiding headphones. It's really a technique that you play the vocal track back through a compressor after you sum the out of phase noise, with the dry vocal. Then compress.
I have a question for a long time now,if someone can answer this to me I would appreciate it.In the studio,why do singers record themselves using headphones on? I mean,if the music plays in their ears how can they just sing correctly? I tried that and I couldn't hear myself singing in order to sing good,so in this case the vocals were bad.I don't really understand this.
Their singing is also heard through the headphones.
Couldn’t you also grab the noise profile from the noise track and use it with a noise reduction plugin on the vocal track? Or do you think that might be overprocessing? Just a thought.
Yeah you could, but that's a snap shot. This would be an exact print of the noise, and you play it along with the main vocal track.
Hi!Ryan.When recording the noise track,you said let the singer behind the mic.The word "behind" really make me confusing.That means is to let the singer stand in the original position(as the same position as when recording vocal track)?Sorry, my native language is not English.
Yep, have the vocalist stand at the singing position, and breathe very quietly.
Ok,thanks! Great technique!
augh i wish i could work a session with you just to see what you do and jot down notes and learn i really hate that i can't get the same results
I wish I knew what things you wanted to know.
Would you reccomend leaving the bleed in if it's a quite dry mix? So it would give the mix some room sound or more space/depth. Just asking, maybe it's a not so clever question, I haven't experimented with this techniqe yet. Thanks for the vids. - JCB
I wouldn't, but it's not the end of the world if you don't compress super hard. when you compress, it'll just bring all that bleed up with will be a pretty good editing job to go in and take it out between phrases.
Can you please make a video to teach me how to start a singing channel? Like the system that I need and the stuffs that I need (such as mic) PLEASE
great trick!
Hi Ryan, I like this idea and I'm definitely going to be trying this out but I have one question; when you say keep everything the same between both tracks, is that just gain, volume, mic placement, etc... or does that include compression, EQ, and any other effects? Thanks!
+Andrew Cheeseman I would not use any compression or any effects at all until you have a chance to bounce the two tracks (both at 0 on the fader) to make the clean track. Then with this cleaned up track you can add compression and other effects. You have to treat the vocal first with the noise track.
Thank you for getting back to me so quick! And ok, thank you for letting me know, can't wait to try this out! Keep up the cool videos!
would this work with loud headphones? just to reduce the volume further in a situation where you don't have the space for speakers or those that can sing well with cans?
James Horan Not really. This technique works because the speaker location doesn't change. There's just no way to do it with headphones that are moving around with someone's head. I would recommend EQing out some of the high end of your headphone mix(and some of the lows too in order to make it sound right) or change headphones.
so to clarify, what do you mean by stand behind the mic? like actually stand facing the back of the mic, or stand facing the mic? I really wanna try this! and is it okay to have reverb and stuff or do you need to keep every effect you apply at recording? like some vocalists want comfort reverb and dont actually use that in the mix!
Yes, record the noise tracks with the vocalist at the same position when they were when they were singing. I would keep the effects to the mixing, as nothing from the mic should be coming out of the speakers.
ahhhh okay lol! just making sure! and right, nothing coming out of the speakers from the mic so there would be no need for effects, i see! thanks so much, your awsome!
this is fucking fantastic!! for years I've liked the sound of my voice when i sing in the room and then feel let down when i do the final vocal takes on cans, sometimes I've even used the takes in the room rather than cans as they have more feel even tho theres this background bleed that fucks the mix a little but fuck it! i just tried this technique and oh my fucking days it works like fuck, thank you man, this is a huge help to me!!!!!
+TheLeon1032 You are by far the most enthusiastic commenter for this video so far. Thank you!
i was told this was immortal sin but i shit the bed with cans on. never tried the phase switch but will b next time. thx for the awesome info!
you badass... thank you so much guy
Excellent video but looks like it only gives you VERY subtle results
It's enough, and it will be more dramatic with a dead room. In fact, very dramatic results for the performance that you get.
Many thanks for your tips dude, I mean Ryan that's your name right. I just fixed my micro it sound better u know open it up do some tweaking. I did the room noise canceling thing not sure how it work but I record a noise only file put some noise removal on it. Not the way u done it. Anywho I just recorded a mix, I hope it came out good I am just an amateur but I learn much from your video.
+Rock&Roll Hey thanks for saying hello. You bring up a good point. For this technique, you don't need any noise cancelation or plug ins. Just recording your noise track without touching anything, and flip the polarity of the noise track to reduce that noise.
Im new to recording and am not overly familiar with phases, so just a quick question. Do I switch the phase of BOTH tracks, or just one or the other. Thanks!
Just the noise track
Phase isn't an isolated thing; it's a relationship between the two sound sources. If you flip both of them, they'll still be in phase with each other.
Right on Aubrey, flipping both doesn't nothing at all for this issue.
Yeah, considering I record mostly punk bands, sticking the vocalist in a tiny booth that feels like a cell is just kinda cruel. I like to use the "mini-booth" box lined with high-density foam, so the mic is isolated from the monitors but my ears are not, but not all vocalists like that....and it's not exactly sanitary.....
Ah, interesting idea. Yeah, it's almost like some of the iso things that wrap around the back of the mic.
creativesoundlab Those are ok, but they only block the direct projection from the monitors, not reflections in the room. The box I use is pretty well sealed once I stick my mug up on it, and as an added bonus, it didn't cost me 120 bucks. The downside is that it *can* make things come out "boxy" sounding, but it really depends on the vocal, the mic, and the box itself and what it is lined with. I've inhaled enough pulverized insulation for several lifetimes, so I went with foam. I find ways to work around the flaws. I bigger box and extra layers of foam might have been helpful, hard to say though. If I keep the monitors turned down fairly low and use a gate, it allows me to just sit back a little from the edge of the box instead of trying to create a seal, and that seems to alleviate the "boxyness" of my box.....I said box.
im subscribing i love it man thanks!!
+Josuha Mariscal Glad to have you!
Thank you so much for this technique! I hate singing with headphones. They throw my pitch way off and in the back of my mind I'm constantly thinking about how bad I sound through them. So after watching this I started using a small monitor that I set up near my mic stand and I have been getting great takes over and over again. And what a time saver! Barely any pitch correction or time adjustments needed because I can get it right the first time. But I do have a quick question that I think I know the answer to but I'll ask anyway because it just crossed my mind. Lets say you needed to do some heavy handed editing. Would you edit both tracks as a grouped pair or would you render them to a single track first?
I would play them into a single track first, so the noise is canceled out, then do the editing.
creativesoundlab I got a good question for you. And I pray to God that you can answer it because it is a mystery I have been trying to find out for a long time. How the heck do you get vocals with NO BLEED? Some say it is impossible but...when I listen to versions of commercial songs in acapella, the bleed just magically goes away. Sounds like the bleed was never there, I do not hear all that track noise in the background of their vocals. All I hear is them. How is this accomplished??? I MUST know!
+Amir Grant a gate?
Great video, dude! Awesome trick with the phase cancelation!
Just wanted to chime in here: I once recorded at choir and didn't have enough headphones for all of the singers and as a result of that I placed speakers in the live room. Put up a mic in figure-8 in the middle of the room, placed the singers in the front and back of the mic and placed the speaker on the left and right side of the figure-8´s null position (if that makes sense). I then flipped the phase of the two speakers and found the spot for the mic (in between the speakers) that canceled out the sound the most = lots of choir, minimum speaker bleed :-)
I btw always record my own vocals without headphones, love it! The only downside is, if a little bit of pitch correction is needed afterwards, that can become troublesome...but who needs that with the "no headphones technique" ;-)
Oh and another thing. Would you mix the the "vocal track" and the "out of phase track" down to one track, before EQing and so on? I mean, in theory, everything you do to the "vocal track" should also be done to the "out of phase track"...IN THEORY that is...
Yes, I would sum the "Noise" track and the "Vocal" track down to one track, before EQing. Very important. I've also done this technique with a group of people singing, and it worked. I haven't tried the phase trick with a choir yet.
Great stuff bro. One thing, what do you mean by "stand BEHIND the mic".. do you mean stand in the null? Or, am I still going to stand in "singing" position minus the singing?
+Scotty Hills Hey Thanks Scott. Yeah, you want your singer to stand there like they usually do. After they nail a few good takes that you think that you are sure they will want to use, go ahead and record a "noise" track with them standing behind the mic, just like they are singing. Try to get them to breath quietly and about as close as they were to the mic when singing. You only have to do this for the portions when they are singing, so you can skip over any guitar solos or instrumental portions to speed things up.
+creativesoundlab Hah! Caught me on a technicality there. I've always stood in front of mics as a singer, or so I thought? Thanks for the cool vids
What’s that control surface?
How do you flip the phase of the noise track ? Thanks
Right in the DAW. There is often a polarity flip next to the mute, solo, or track volume faders.
Thank you and all the best wishes ! Nice video !
I have no inner ear voice because of Temporomandibular Joint Disorder, but still can sing with amplification. This is the only way I can record.
Interesting the video and the comments don't mention how/when to combine the 2 tracks at the end. Point being, you're going to be doing post processing to the vocal track that has noise after you record it. If you don't permanently combine them before doing any EQ or compression etc this process isn't going to work great. Maybe I missed it?
Yes, you combine them right away and then EQ and compress.
This is cool! What mic did you use with this?
AT4040
I think a serious professional singer will spend hours and hours every day getting used to headphones so that they don't affect their performance whatsoever... For the rest of us, this technique is amazing. 😂It's great because as you point out what really counts is having the best possible performance.
Wouldn't this technique record the music as well along with the vocals.....when you want only vocals
That's why he subtracted it after. Did you watch the video?
Does a headphone helps in reducing background noises?
Sure, headphones work as they always would and they come with their problems of pitch control for the artist. This technique is an alternative.
Genious!!!
+Cainã Morellato de Almeida Thanks!
We can still hear the sound of headphone, how to remove completely?
goodmusic4eva Great question. The sound that you are hearing in the example is not headphones, but it is actually the speaker in the same room with the vocalist microphone. If you find you are still getting too much bleed you can add deadening material such as blankets or sound panels around where the microphone is. You can also have the vocalist stand closer to the microphone. Make sure you are using a cardioid pattern microphone. You can also try a different microphone that may give better results. (My AT4040 works a little better than my 414B-ULS for example) You can also use a high quality dynamic microphone such as a 441, SM7 or RE20.
ingenious!
Thanks!
I AM A SUBSCRIBER NOW FANKS
+Maynor Montalvan (Maynor3m) Glad to have you, thanks!
@12:30 get out of my head sir.
I cant use headphones rn. I would be listening to more George Michaels but ya know.
im laying in fetal position in between rounds of video game.
Nice, yeah headphones area great if you have to tune vocal as you need isolation, but I think terrible for getting the best from the performer.
A fine idea but when you do it in the same room your vocal mic will most likely pick up what's coming from the studio monitors. Trust me I've experienced it. Listen back and isolate the vocal and you'll hear some of the song (the rest of the instruments) in the vocal track
Yes, it is a fine idea and it works great. The bleed your talking about is something that I address in the video.
Creative Sound Lab while I appreciate your approach and no doubt it works well for the vocalist - you can still definitely hear the mix in the vocal track. It's very much there
Dude, you're cute af. No homo
Also great technique, will try!
👎 I'm just hearing what it sound like I'm not seeing how it's done.
Then all that is too much just put the headphone an get it done studio time cost money