Lore of Middle-earth - Túrin Turambar
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2024
- A dive into the lore of Middle-earth presented as a (sort of) podcast.
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Music provide by Adrian von Ziegler and Vindsvept:
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NEVER apologise for longer lore videos. They are a delight
Arguably one of the one true dramas in the legendarium
JRR Martin's fanboys: Tolkien's books are too light and good guys always win
Tolkien's book:
I completely agree with the sentiment, but we should not be to hard on most ASOIAF fans, after all the poor plebs have generally not read the Silmarillion or the Children of Hurin.
rosc222 it's all in good fun, they have it bad enough with how their TV show turned out. I don't have anything against the fandom as a whole, there's just that annoying little part of it that makes fun of Tolkien's work without even reading it, and that's just not cool at all.
I actually love BOTH authors and the worlds they created... and it‘s Hard to compare them!
But I can understand the ‚felt superiority‘ some of GRRM ‚fanboys‘ have! Tolkien created languages and built a world they were spoken in, GRRM uses real history events, turns them and builds his own world around them! I never read fantasy literature that was so precisely written and even minor details explained over pages like in Song of Ice and Fire, but Tolkien will always be my first love concerning fantasy literature!
I simply don‘t like that there are several different versions of the same stories, events, characters over several books! To be honest, the worldbuilding in the first age is quite the mess, but somehow Tolkien still managed to finish the core stories for us... something Martin still has to accomplish
And to be honest, in the two main stories, the good win against terrible odds and loved characters got quite the luck, which is why I love tragic figures like Boromir, Turin and believe Isildur and Earnur are quite more interesting then Aragorn who simply is forbidden to fail 😅
rosc222 They are poor plebs in general, they got a shitty rushed ending to the TV adaptation and are waiting for the ending to the book series that’ll never come because Martin will die of old age at this rate.
Ayy Lmao you have to differ between fans of the show and fans of the books! Those who love the books started hating on the show since season 5... or just didn‘t care anymore like me
Show only fans I share the same opinion, they are plebs and satisfied with (almost) anything the writers of the show gave them, didn‘t question any of the stupidities at all until it was too late
Children of Húrin lowkey had me crying every chapter...poor Túrin :( Definitely my favorite story
I think Túrin's story is so different in tone from other works of Tolkien because he used the notoriously dark story of Kullervo as its inspiration. The circumstances around two of the three suicides (Túrin and Nienor) are not at all different from the original folklore. Great video, and it was very enjoyable to hear your personal thoughts on the story as well.
My favourite saga from The Silmarillion (you probably can tell from my profile pic). Thank you for this.
really dont know what to say about this dark story, it really touched my heart for the first time ever..........
The one most beautiful tales of sorrow , betrayal and heroism, never to make the big screen.
Is there a producer on the planet with the integrity to make this happen?
Thanks for the excellent recap.
Just discovered your channel naught but a week ago Arachîr and as lore bug myself deeeeeply appreciate the time and effort you put in to these videos! Guren glassui melon!
A fantastic lore video Galu!
I thoroughly enjoyed this one and think you should do a Hurin lore video for next month continuing on from this tragic tale.
Videos seem to be getting better and better keep it up!
One of the saddest parts of the story was Gwindor losing the love of Finduilas because of his crippling by Morgoth. Sort of runs parallel thematically to Frodo’s story, when he returns to the shire and can’t find peace.
No joke, I was playing Kingdoms of Amalur while listening to this, and stumbled on a side quest about a dude named Turin.
If I would have to utter any criticisim to this splendid recap of this tragic story, it would be that you didn´t mentionend that Turin neglected the warnings the weo messengers from Ulmo brought into Nargothrond before the battle against Glaurung. For this small episode shows again the biggest weakness of Turin, his pride.
And his urge to solve everything by the sword... the man who lives by the sword, will die by the sword... tragically, it was is own
Damn bridge makers 🤣
Great work man!
This part in the Silmarillion is perhaps the saddest. Chapter after chapter of pain, as you read of the slow extermination of all those great nations, and of how friendships fall apart.
I haven’t wandered your way until now. I very much enjoyed this video and greatly appreciate all the work you must have put into it. Something I wish more of Tolkiens scholarship would do for us is speak the Elvish that they know, as you have done. I’ve never had a good memory for language and I’m fascinated by those who can speak this particular language. More please sir!
Love these lore videos, one of the best stories in the silm. Keep these going! Great job.
To me The death of Beleg is one of the most memorable passages in all of Tolkien’s writings
I can see it in my head as clear as day … or as clear as a flash of lightning
Children of Hurin broke my heart
Mine too
One of my favorite chapters in the great Silmarillion. Wonderful book
I always try to read the Silmarillion once a year but if I can't manage that I at least read this story, it was my first piece of the Tolkien legendarium I ever read on my own when i was 13, and is arguably my favorite tale in the over all story, despite it being so dark.
Literally just read through the story, then I saw this had been uploaded.
Simply wonderful. Thank you sir.
Not long enough... I'd take 90 min, no problem!
Awesome work! Keep it up! keep it coming!
Great video. Since quite recently i read Children of Hurin I find this video 10/10
Sadly I can't watch this bc I'm in the middle Sir Christopher Lee's reading of the Children of Hurin. Get it on Audible folks, you will not regret it
This is probably my favourite Tolkien story. Great synopsis as usual!
I always remember the names as who-rin and two-rin to prevent myself from inserting that sneaky Y sound
Read the book in 4 days, my favorite story of the Tolkien universe
Keep up with the quality videos there excellent.
I know "The Children of Hurin" is not a real history, but it rings so true and it leaves me with such a deep sadness when I read it (and I've read it 3 times now (and yes, I'm a masochist)).
Thanks Galu, Turin would have approved
poor Turin... he only brought destruction to all the place he visited and all the people that accompanied him
Why can't I like it 200 times?
hi Galu, maybe for next lore video you could do it on Cirion and Eorl, the events leading up to the creation of Rohan and the oath taking at Elendil grave?
one day hopefully will be a movie
Excellent.
what a tragic tale! thanks for the vid it was good
i wish the prophesy of the final battle wasn't abandoned, because man kind deserved to be avenged.
It wasn't. Christopher Tolkien made an error in thinking it was. Tolkien wrote in around 1951:
Letter 131: "This legendarium ends with a vision of the end of the world, its breaking and remaking, and the recovery of the Silmarilli and the 'light before the Sun'--after a final battle which owes, I suppose, more to the Norse vision of Ragnarok than to anything else, though it is not much like it."
Christopher Tolkien had made a mistake based on his literalistic reading of one of the manuscripts of the Later Quenta Silmarillion, even though the LQS actually contains a final battle sequence. This is largely just Christopher Tolkien making one of his many mistakes, which he often admitted to making these mistakes numerous times.
How truly sad his tale is. To have hope dangled in front of you only to have it taken away time and time again is terrible.
infinity/infinity, loved it but yes i agree tolkien could get very dark with his stories.
I am not able to wrap my head around the where abouts of the map at the start of the video. Is it middle earth just pre-melkor destructive wars or is it a place somewhere else? (Haven't read any book other than the lotr trilogy and hobbit)
It is Beleriand. It sank beneath the sea at the end of the First Age. The mountain range on the far right of the map is the blue mountains that you should recognize from LOTR and hobbit.
@ okay thank you
Oops. Got my mountain range wrong. My bad.
What an amazing ending!
Turin and Beleg, real friends
Not sure if I’m remembering wrong but it always confused me that Neinor was described as blonde and fair and Niniel was described as brown with dark hair.
Is that a chainsaw in the background around minute seven?
Didn't you do a lore video on Men like you did with the Dwarves and Elves? I can't seem to find it even on your hidden playlist
Awesome thanks for the story
The maker of Turins sword, Eor(?) Same elf made to walk the plank in Gondolin?
Eol was Maeglins father and they wgere both thrown from the walls of Gondolin
Amazing.
Actually, Narn i hin Hurin (The story of the Children of Hurin) is written in the Unfinished Tales and a special book is published with this title, which is translated in Greek- so, I suppose that you must have the original book in English. It is the most sad story of the Silmarillion era, and, as Tolkien himself tells in the Silmarillion, the tale that all of Morgoth's evil and all his purposes are revealed. Have a nice afternoon.
It is written in the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and the standalone book yes. However, in real world chronology, the Silmarillion came first so what I said in the video remains correct "actually".
@ , I'm afraid I didn't catch exactly what you said in the video. Thanks for the clarification.
Are you gonna do more lore videos on Beleriand?
Turin Turambar = Kullervo, from Kalevala. It doesn't make his story any less interesting, but it should be always mentioned, that this part of the Silmarillion isn't just Tolkiens own making.
I actually thinka that Turin & Niniel is one the best stories in the whole of Tolkiens writings - even if he has borrowed it from another tale (Kaleva).
Same. This is my favorite tale from the elder days of Middle Earth, but it is (by Tolkien's own admission) largely a retelling of Kullervo.
When you consider the story of Tolkien's life as told int THE INKLINGS. The Dark that he showed in this tale is not farfetched at all
You have a similar cadence and affectation to Faramir from the movies lol
I have one question if you can answer, What happened to Turin and Neanor's child? Did Neanor died pregnant or gave birth before commiting suicide?
When she found out she was pregnant with her brothers child she killed herself and the unborn child
Amazing
Is there a reason why Morwen did not go to doriath the first time she was invited? It seems like she could have prevented the entire story by just going to be with her child instead of raising her new kid in slavery and oppression. It just seems really foolish.
Can someone give me a link to the picture at 31:00 or tell me with what phrase to Google search it
www.tednasmith.com/tolkien/turin-discovers-nienor-at-the-mound-of-finduilas/
@ Thank you very much sir, I've been looking for this ever since I started watching your DaC campaigns in 2016
This is probably my favorite tale that Tolkien ever wrote (which is primarily him just rewriting Kullervo from the Kalevala, by his own admission this was a conscious effort) in his legendarium and one of the biggest influences on my own thought. Excellent Lore video! I always enjoy these of yours.
Now don't take this the wrong way (Tolkien is my favorite author and LotR is my favorite book of all time, so before you start screeching like children, take not of this), but imagine what this story would have been like if Tolkien wasn't lowkey antisemitic and sexist... like, the story could have been even better imo.
And yes, he was kinda antisemitic. Khuzdul (the Dwarvish language) was devised as a counterpart to Hebrew, and he specifically said in Letter 176, "I do think of the Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their private tongue." (Carpenter, Letters, p. 229). Thus, we have to keep in mind he actively thought of them as "Jewish", and yet portrayed them as greedy (Mim and his roots; Dwarves of Moria lusted for mithril and dug too deep awaking the Balrog), as conniving (Mim), as secretive and isolating themselves, etc. Basically the Dwarves, while having been modeled a bit on Norse conceptions, are also heavily rounded in antisemitic stereotypes, and no Tolkien's comments against Hitler and his attacks on the German publisher of The Hobbit do not excuse him from this. Being against the antisemitism of the Nazis, does not mean one does not have antisemitic biases (even if they are not intentional).
Then there are the Haradrim, and others hailing from the east and south, with names and terms like Mumakil, Incánus, Umbar, etc. and their tongues are described as harsh, etc. I think he was clearly modeling them as Arabs, and whose side are they on? Sauron's of course. Add to this that he never describes the skin color of his characters much, except... well when it comes to orcs who are all shades of brown and black. Further, he describes them also as "sallow-skinned" and "in fact, degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types" (Letter 210). And yes, while he puts the qualifier "(to Europeans)" he still consciously has associated them with Asian peoples. Note, also, he describes their weaponry and armor types very closely to Mongolian and Ottoman in style.
As for sexism, there is a dearth of literature written on the sexism in Tolkien's works, in his letters, and it should come as no surprise, given he hung out with people like C. S. Lewis, who quite literally regarded women as intellectual inferiors. And no, Eowyn and figures like this do not really count, especially when he gives them quite conflicting endings. Eowyn is a figure who wishes not to be encaged, restricted, nor stopped in achieving her own glory. But then he just shoehorns in a relationship between her and Faramir, pretty much out of nowhere and with little to no development whatsoever. And being a "warrior princess" type figure does not make one a strong female character, either. What it appears to be is that Tolkien's ultimate conception of women's happiness is that they come to an *acceptable* marriage, which is basically where Nienur/Niniel comes in, because the theme is that of how unacceptable and, in fact, repugnant the union is. It is because the union of brother and sister is unacceptable that she then casts herself into the waters and drowns, and then Turin kills himself. Basically, they are polar opposites of Eowyn and Faramir, showing juxtapositions of "correct" marriage, which is ultimately to be the woman's role (see Arwen, Eowyn, Rosie, Nienur, Galadriel, etc.). Note that every time a woman seeks for herself independent power it must be either put down with a union to a man (Eowyn for instance) or it is evil in some fashion (Ungoliant is coded female, evil; Shelob is coded female, evil; Galadriel who is not allowed to return to the Valar because of her goals and pride, which are evils; etc.).
Now before you all lose your minds, I am not saying you can't like this or that this isn't a good story. It is excellent. It is, again, my favorite of all elder tales of Beleriand, and Lord of the Rings is my all time favorite book. I as a feminist, LGBTQ+, anti-racist activist, and a communist, have Lord of the Rings (a book written by a sexist, racist, pro-monarchist, Catholic white man) as my all time favorite book ever. I am just saying, that we should consume our media and our entertainment with a critical eye. Doesn't mean you have to stop loving things. I also like Skyrim, even though it is a tale about choosing Pro-fascist and racist revolutionaries (Stormcloaks) or racist monarchist totalitarians (Imperials), while becoming the ultimate toxic male conception of a badass (dragonborn) in the land. No one has to stop liking these, nor do I want you to.
What I am saying is... imagine Tolkien's world without those things, OR if those things were more critically examined by Tolkien himself. I think it would definitely make it just as interesting, if not more so. But again, I am just adding this to the conversation. I personally think The Silmarillion, The Children of Hurin, and LotR are some of the best pieces of modern literature ever written. So, before you get reactionary, don't take a chill pill and just read what I'm saying.
there is so many bruh moments
Oooooooh Turin! 😂
52 seconds after upload!
Ringil video ????!
Peter Jackson should direct ths story and the sequel should be based on the Dagor Dagorath.It's my favourite tale but it does need to end with the death of Morgoth. Turin is more interesting than hobbits and elves on a journey to destroy a ring. It would be nice to have moves that have nothing to do with Gandalf and the Shire for once. There's like 6 movies and they all come from Baggins. We need a human protagonist with flaws and a mature story such as this. A story that exercises the horrors of the greatest fictional world ever made.
You can even start this story from the beginning when Morgoth is still Valar. It would be amazing to witness the creation of Elves and Dwarves and the conflict between Morgoth and his father as they sang for dominance.
Fingolfin is another great character. I just don't want to see hobbits. Hobbits are so distracting and too short and their feet are hideous. They don't make cool protagonists unless they're playing hide and seek with dragons. The fixation with hobbits undermines the more interesting characters.
There's even a story of Dwarves and Dragons and that one human who killed a dragon. So yeah, i don't give a f**k about Baggin's legacy. To be fair, they are still good stories. It's just this overused "David and Goliath" plot.
Why does my protagonist always have to be barefoot with hideous feet and favoured by old wizards ?
Anyway, these stories are more fun than Star wars and Dune. Even the sibling rivary between the elves and how it drastically changed Middle Earth.
I just want something different...even a movie based on Elves baking Lemba's bread. Just stay away from the Shire.
That was sad
Elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo my friend
I'm the 36th person!!!!
When you realize you've been pronouncing that city in Spain incorrectly.
I can't stand Turin. In modern times he'd be an extraordinarily-talented athlete/superstar who's also an arrogant prick, who has huge success but eventually drives himself into a downward spiral and takes everyone close to him down with him.
And opinion would be divided on him after his death. Some would go, "He was a great warrior who challenged a dragon and dark God," while some would say, "Well, he caused the fall of a kingdom and was involved in a scandal with his relative."
Pride was the fatal flaw of multiple Tolkien characters. Same as Feanor.
На русском языке пожалуйста 🙌🏽