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As a hobbyist, it was tough/impossible to justify the Domino, but now that I've had one for a year I can't imagine life without it. I have probably completed at least a half dozen projects I never would have started pre Domino. We all live within the iron box of the 24 hour day and the Domino allows you to get sh%t done extremely accurately and quickly. And if you find yourself not using it, you can sell it and suffer remarkably little depreciation.
Yeah, I think the resale value is a key consideration. With Festool's price increases each year, it doesn't take long to be able to recoup nearly 100% of your investment into the tool while the next person still gets a good deal.
I'm of the opinion that professionals and non retired hobbyists have similar time constraints. One for money and the other to have family time too. So tools that save time are very valuable to both.
Just bought one but haven't had opportunity to use it yet as I'm in the middle of workshop reorganization hell. (Took nearly everything out, painted the walls, etc.) Looking forward to making some money and getting sh%t done.
You won one internet at 0:20. I particularly appreciate that you took the time to center the pizza slice tip with the screw before the attempt. I think it was a honest try.
Professional turned hobbyist here, I bought one about 6 years ago for a couple of jobs - paid for itself in one job. Now I just build furniture for myself and friends/family and I still use it a ton!
I've been using a trim router with a plunge base along with different types of jigs, bases, and attachments to make mortices for DIY dominos. I took delivery of a DF 500 a few days ago and what previously took me a significant amount of time took minutes with the Domino. I fall into the hobbyist camp, and at first I actually enjoyed the extra layout and thought that went into setting up for router mortices. But now that I've made several practice joints with the Domino, I can't imagine going back to my old ways.
I think that's the reality of what a lot of people would experience. There is certainly no situation where you NEED a domino. It's just quicker in a lot of situations. And like you said, where you take enjoyment from coming up with alternative ways...most people, after a few times of doing that, they've gotten all the enjoyment they need from that...and you'd rather just get the piece assembled quickly and without error.
@@tabooretka I wouldn't suggest the DF 500 is limiting, but rather a job's requirements can exceed its capabilities. When that happens, I just go back to using a router to make the mortise and mill up some tenons to whatever size I need. I've never felt limited in what I can do on a project because I have a DF 500. There are many ways to solve a problem (including buying a larger DF 700!) ;-)
You guys know what you're talking about, but what sets you apart is your style and calm personalities. I really enjoy all your videos. Keep it up! Greets from Costa Rica.
After 4 years of woodworking, I finally got one. It arrived today (DF500) and I am in love. Got a project coming up that will heavily utilize it (waterfall bench), so I finally bit the bullet.
I've been using them for years. Finally bought my own. I get so tired of people saying mean things to guys who build furniture because it is "easy mode." Sure the joinery might not be as interesting as something like half laps or the crazy stuff that the japanese do with dovetails but whatever. Joinery doesn't always need to be the center of the piece. If you want something sturdy, reliable, and with more functions that you really need then the domino is the way to go. Great video. Thanks as always guys.
Indeed. My reply to that has always been that my goal is the end result...and whatever means gets me there best and with the least error is the way I prefer.
@@KarelKubela You’re going to love it. I highly suggest making your own dominos. Dominos are great for strength and alignment, but if you want to ad some style, it really ads flare making through tendons with walnut Domino in light colour wood, or vice versa.
@@Foureyes.Furniture Just curious, and maybe playing devil's advocate, where might you draw the line? In other words, if your goal is to end up with a piece of furniture that is functional and beautiful -- and presumably that you've designed -- the best, fastest, most-accurate way to achieve that goal could be to outsource the building entirely ... either by hiring someone to build it or relying totally on automation (if that's possible or could be someday). So at what point on that spectrum would you lose the sense of pride or accomplishment? Another way of looking at it, what percentage of hands-on, process-oriented involvement do you need to still be happy about, and feel connected to, the end result?
@@KarelKubela3 year opinion? I just got a duo doweler and am thinking about adding a domino to the mix also …I do mostly installs and site work . A lot of panels and other finish features
I'll say that as a hobbyist, I really have very limited time in my workshop. If a process like a domino can free up an afternoon's worth of work to keep my project moving, it's totally worth it.
@@Duci1989 I built my son a nice mission style bookshelf using dowel joinery before I got my domino. It was frustrating and took 6 months with lots of mistakes to get it right. Looking back, had I had my domino I could have done all of the joinery in a weekend.
I’m with you 100%. I get very little shop time. So when I’m there, I’d like the time to be as productive and enjoyable as possible. Saving a few bucks is usually the last thing to cross my mind.
I bought my Domino after several years of saving and thinking about it. I’ve had it for almost a year now. NEVER once have I regretted it. It’s everything I expected it to be and more. Way faster and more accurate. I tried a doweling jig to “save money”. However it was nothing compared to the Domino. Well worth it!
As a builder and woodworker for longer than you guys have been alive,I’ve always wanted a Domino but will never own one. At least not until the patent runs out and they’re made affordable. I love my “plate joiner” and the Domino picks up where the biscuits fall short and thats shear strength. Plate joiner is better for edge glue ups because it has forgiveness to it and is cheaper. When I priced a domino in Canada,it cost more than my 3 hp Tablesaw. No hand tool should cost that much unless you’ll give me an unconditional lifetime warranty.Love what you guys do,cheers.
@@snydercustomwoodwork in Canada with tax as of June 2022 they start at $1700 for the 500, $2500 for the 700. My three hp left tilt saw with a used Delta 52” fence was $1700.
Maybe when my kiddos are grown and I'm retired I'll spend all day chopping dovetails and mortises... but in the meantime, my domino enables me to make the most of the couple hours per week I get in the shop. Cheers!
God knows how long these films take you guys to make... but just know it's hugely appreciated! Especially the line animations - super clear what's going on. Thanks guys!
I have a commercial 3 HP horizontal mortiser. Man you never see anyone use those anymore. But it works great when I can use it. It’s just hard to carry around the shop. Thanks Guys. You had me waving back on reflex!
I’m a very new hobbyist woodworker. Justified the purchase of the domino by building a few pieces of furniture and with the infallible logic that time is money! Have no regrets so far. Though I haven’t attempted the joinery you discussed with the chair project, I would think it could be made much simpler by approaching it as you would for dominos with a shelf in a cabinet - mark the seat top for location of dominos, mark a line for the alignment of the lower side of the seat on the leg assembly, then reference the base of the domino off this line by clamping the seat to the leg assembly (as you would a shelf on a cabinet).
It's nice to hear talk about "results" woodworking. So many RUclips guys are always engaged in process, and I assume they believe their audience is as well. Great video, and equally great assessment of the different techniques for joinery. Thank you, and keep up the great work.
Real nice video guys 👌. I'm not sure if it's helpful or not but thought I'd share. When I'm using a domino (or biscuiter) and have to use the machine in a vertical position with a straight guide, I find it much quicker (and accurate) to use the peice you marked as, the straight edge. So in your example of the chair base to leg assembly, if you used the chair base, with its original markings on, as the straight edge you're good to do. No finding a straight edge, no transfering marks inaccurately, no extra time spent
Thank you for your help. I am not a woodworker, just an artist who paints and was thinking of doing my own frames and mortises with a Festool Domino... Cheers from Quebec, Canada.
Great video guys! That was a great breakdown of domino vs non-domino joinery, Really digging how you've broken down the processes here and shown examples for each.
I really liked the conversation/interview style at the end. I also really related the perspective of either enjoying the process or the result. Thank you both for an excellent video presentation.
I think there’s also something to be said for the enjoyment of using the tool as well. As a hobbyist the few minutes time savings isn’t that big of a deal. However I do enjoy using a clever piece of machinery. Not to mention the dust collection is really good. Nice vid by the way!
I recently acquired a Domino that was barely used and I'm very much a hobbyist. Your assessment at the end is dead on. I enjoy completing the project more than the process. But that is exactly where it falls for hobbyist - if you enjoy the process then it may not be for you. This is also why I bought a Leigh dovetail jig. Exactly the same. Great assessment!
That end bit totally gave me podcast vibes. Not sure if there's already a FourEyes podcast, but if there's not, I'll be the first of many to say I would listen to every single episode.
Your videos somehow keep getting better! So informative and still hilarious. Been pondering over buying a domino for a while now and this has definitely helped make my decision. Thanks a bunch.
"Should you?" More like "Can you?" ... they're almost completely out of stock and backordered everywhere due to pandemic slowdowns in Germany. I somehow got really lucky when I ordered mine last week. As a hobbyist who both enjoys "the slow stuff" and "just getting stuff done", it made sense to get this to save time on a large number of upcoming cabinet/bookshelf projects I talked myself into doing myself "to save money" ... so I need to spend some of that money I'm saving.
Thanks for your video, I searched for this similar answer as well. End result is the domino simplifies my life. I still use conventional mortise and tenon but the speed can't be matched. Biscuits, they aren't in the same league. Only dowels are in the same league. The domino is the best choice if you use it a lot. Thanks again, btw, you probably won't ever meet anyone that bought the domino say they regret it.
This is easily the best video I've ever seen on the Domino. The spectrum of process vs. result is exactly the way I see the tool (as a hobby woodworker). I'm at a stage in woodworking where I'm building a lot of furniture I'm using in my house so getting to the finished project is my priority and I use the Domino a lot. Later in life, I see myself going more towards hand tools and slowing down and enjoying the process. At that point, I would of course not use the Domino but instead enjoy the process of making whatever joint I'm making. The concept of process vs. result in woodworking is really the key to understanding many aspects of the hobby. This same argument applies to most CNC work as well.
@@hinduspl The jobsite starts at $1399 so you can literally buy a Sawstop for less then a domino. I'm not a Sawstop salesman or anything, I wouldn't buy that one for me but...just saying..
Loved this video. You guys are hysterical. Think your conclusion is spot on! I go both ways - LoL - that is, sometimes I relish the time spent cutting dovetails by hand and nearly always showcase that kind of exposed joinery in every piece I make, in fact it’s a signature for me. But for MANY, many joints (tables legs to skirts for example) the domino is the way to go, long replacing my traditional approach of old school mortise and tenons cut much too slowly and with too many human errors with various tools. Thanks fellas. Bravo.
Festool (a German Company) designed the tool with metric measurements in mind. We here in the United States use the imperial system of measure. This makes furniture building a challenge. I spend a lot of time keeping the two systems of measure straight in my mind. Mistakes still happen. I know people make conversion devices to be used with the Domino cutter but, it would be a lot better to make an imperial version of the tool.
I think that’s part of the allure and charm. I’m a full time carpenter and grew up with imperial. I think it’s just not going to happen - on some tools I will see guys put reference marks at common thicknesses for track saw etc. Anyhow , happy new years
Just ordered the DF 500 yesterday. Been on the fence for years about taking the plunge. I don't work on-site any more, but have spent a fortune over the years on tools in general - pretty much 2 or 3 of everything - and kept telling myself that I just wouldn't be able to justify the cost. Then it occurred to me, well, that I don't have to! Yes, I do enjoy pottering in the garage, but I also like the idea of coming out - sooner, rather than later - with something tangible in exchange for the time spent. So, I'm checking out various pointers on where to get started, and noobie mistakes to avoid.
There was a legendary Seattle tool dealer, woodworker and sage named Tashiro. We were talking about different ways to make a Japanese plane. During the discussion Tashiro posed the question, What is time? Knowing it was a trap I meekly squeaked, Money? He shook his head and chide me, No time is life. Do it the fast way and don’t waste your life. I would speak with him for an hour and leave his small store with a single Japanese saw blade. He made no money but I never felt it was wasted time or as Tashiro would call it, life.
@ Tashiro was an old guy when I visited his small store/shop in the late 80’s early 90’s. There were actually inexpensive spaces to rent in certain neighborhoods of Seattle and they weren’t inhabited by unhoused and drug addicted people. A very different place than today.
@ it’s a shame when we are losing spaces like that which make cities worth being in. Chicago has unhoused and drug enslaved people taking over parks and open paces too -for the last few years it’s been terrible . I really love to talk shop, tools and trades myself and even just thinking about the bars I’d go to 20 years ago as a kid (20’s) with all the tradesmen shooting the breeze that are now a lousy Panera or Starbucks . What a racket! Property and rent are disgustingly unattainable for many. Here’s to a better new year , cheers
Your dry humor is an absolutely perfect fitment for April fools. Honestly, this could have been a normal video and I would have enjoyed it as much. That corgy puppet is so fucking cute. Reminds me a lot of Cowboy Bebop and the Queen.
Useful informative video. Regarding difficulties in using Dominos in certain non-parallel constructions, I find that accurate traditional layout skills can transform almost every such situation into a simple matter of clamping an accurate guide piece onto a line appropriately offset from the intended line where the edge of one piece should meet the surface of the other, and then guiding the machine's base off the guide piece, i.e. ignoring use of the flip down fence altogether. Frank Klausz recommends a similar strategy of working off the machine's base, rather than fence, to simplify use of biscuit joiners.
@@Foureyes.Furniture I think that with all the skits and "stand up” interviews you are doing in the office and the shop nowadays, a video with DIY sound absorption panels making is in order. This would greatly improve the sound quality. Otherwise, another awesome 4eyes video. Thank you, guys!
Great video as always. Even my gf who has no interest in woodworking enjoys watching your content with me. The discussion at the end of this video was particularly important because I think its an important distinction for me (a keen hobbyist with little time, and complete lack of space to work with) to define if I enjoy the process more, or the satisfaction of the finished article. Somehow I've never considered this. Will definitely help define all of my future purchases.
I’m a huge advocate of the DowelMax doweling jig. I’m really curious if you’ve heard of it or used it? I find it’s incredibly fast and accurate. I’d love to see a speed comparison between that and the domino. Just for viewers’ reference.
I have to admit this is one of the more even-handed looks at the Domino. Thanks. If money weren’t an object I would definitely have one, but until I can I’m glad there’s other methods to get it done.
This was really helpful! Two questions on the floating tenon: 1) How wide should the tenon be, and at what depth do you cut the mortises? It looks like the tenon is about 1" wide, so would you cut the mortises 5/8"? 9/16"? 2) What's the difference/benefits between a floating tenon and rabbiting the top edge on a panel so the bottom edge acts as the tenon? Love the videos!
Bought one and used it for a few projects. Sold it for 90% of what I paid. I’ll probably do the same next time I need one since I don’t use it very often
I'm not a powertool guy, I like the process of cutting dovetails and I prefer old school furniture, but I love your videos and the furniture you guys make. Good call
Can you move the pieces around at all with the festool tenons in place, when clamping up…? The advantage of biscuits in commercial cabinetmaking is you don’t have to be perfect, you can move the pieces not only horizontally 1/8” but like 1/32” vertically when you’re clamping it up. Dowels have to be absolutely perfect, which is what makes them difficult to use.
Chris. In ref to referencing the domino on the chair. Why not use it like any other panel where you use the seat as a panel and lay it down then reference the inner joint? Love love love you guys. I love my domino. Both the large and small. But I do use the 500 about 95% of the time. Congrats on your well earned success gents!!
I liked the end summary of end result or process enjoyment. I am towards the end result of the spectrum so enjoy having the Domino. I will say that as just a hobbyist that doesn't use it daily there can be learning curve each time you pick it up for a different situation. I make lots of tests for any new technique. If it has been awhile since I last did a similar technique I might need to test it out again.
Good point. I hope people took that away. We always tend to think of it as this simple tool. And for certain situations it is. But there are a lot of complex things/situations we use it for/in
Nice video. I enjoyed the well thought out pro/con presentation. I'm a hobbiest woodworker myself. And while I do enjoy cutting joints, I'm looking at my next project with it's three dozen mortise and tenon joints, and the enthusiasm is fading fast. I think the 500 will be joining my tool collection before I tackle it for sure.
Nice video. Biscuits and Dominos are not the same. I owned a two biscuit systems for well over 20 years and a Domino system for over 11 years. Biscuits add minimal extra strength to a joint. That little extra strength might be all you need but the correct domino adds substantial extra strength. I find little difference in installation speed with either method. I would never use a biscuit for a loose tenon application. They are however great for glue-up alignment. I’ve used both systems for reinforcing miter joints. Biscuits are often adequate for frames and such but Dominos are seriously stronger.
This is a great and very comprehensive Domino review. Learning the tricks with irregular setups such as your chair example will slow down a novice problem solving the solution. I wish a video like this was available when I began with the Domino years ago. 👍👍
I like the discussion at the end. I have done both hand tool joinery as well as the quicker stuff like pocket holes. While I find it fascinating doing the hand tool joinery, in the end, I'm looking forward to the finished product rather than the journey itself. I would love to be able to afford a domino one day because not only is it fast/accurate, it is a very strong joint and a much better tool for clean furniture without having to hide other types of joinery.
The annoying thing is the monopoly. Festool having the only domino means that esp in Norway, where only motek can sell festool-tools, the domino costs an arm and a leg.
One thing, I Think, makes the Domino more Compatible is, that you could cut Dominios on the CNC wich eliminates the need for setting up the Handtool. Yes, you can cut Dowls and floatig tennons on the CNC as well, But with tha handheld Domino you can make the same joinery on parts, that dont fit/don´t need the CNC. With almost same accuaracy. Yes this does not apply to many hobby woodworkers, but the domino is originally made for Cabinetmakers and Starircase makers. And we use a lot of Big CNC mashinery. so the handheld Domino is a great addition to the Workflow.
Probably also worth noting that it's a tool which loses little (if any) value... big price tag, but having the option to resell it at nearly purchase cost in the future is powerful.
Love your editing and your jokes! LOLed a few times throughout the video! haha So glad I stumbled upon your channel, even tho I don't even do woodwork.
Worth noting the Domino's removable connectors system (kv-sys d8) which allows you or your customer to easily disassemble the parts. Also useful when you need to flat pack for shipping and the customer will assemble it. Some biscuit brands have a similar solution.
I have a Makita biscuit joiner. Have used this in a variety of applications, butt joints, miters and also edge to edge panels. The biscuit joiner is, like the domino, a version of loose tenon joinery. I would agree the domino makes close to the ideal replicate of a loose tenon made by hand but see little speed difference vs. the biscuit joiner. In butt and miters, logic dictates it should be stronger but I address this by staggering the biscuit placement in the width of the boards where needed. Router or table saw spline joints are also a competitor. If the domino was a $500-600 investment it would be a no brainer but its the price that causes this to be a discussion.
At the end you guys got to the key question for a hobbyist woodworker. Which is more important *process* or *product* ? Biscuits are fine for panel glue up alignment. Dadoes work really well for a lot of butt joints and can be done on the router table or using a plunge router or table saw. However, right now I need to get my other workshop (nothing to do with wood working) organized. I’m working on the second of at least 4 shelf units. I’ll need drawer units under the workbench too, and probably some cabinets. While I’m working on all of that, the chaos in my basement (woodworking central) is out of control. IOW stuffs needs to be done NOW. Can I do most of it with pocket screws? 🤢 Yes but I really don’t want to. All that said, the cost of the Festool domino is hard to swallow. I could get a router and lift, then make a stand for my old router table top and still spend significantly less. Or I could upgrade to an 8” jointer with helical cutters … Or …. Maybe dowels are the answer.
You can reference with the 20mm setting in the 90degree position and use the base of Domino to center of bit which is a known 10mm distance. I would claim the Domino is the easiest and fastest and would be stronger. For edge gluing panels the Biscuit is best. It is cheaper. You can also plane the panel with less fear of reaching the Biscuit since it is thinner. I think the outdoor type Domino looks great with a reddish hue when left exposed as a contrast to a lighter colored wood like Maple. Looks every bit as good as a dowel. I use a DF500 nearly every day and would like to get a DF700 someday for some bigger work.
![Festool Domino, Mafell Doweller or Lamello Zeta? [video #360]](/img/1.gif)
View an example chapter of our plans here - ruclips.net/video/RPB9yMqpMt8/видео.html
▸ Purchase Woodworking Plans Here - www.foureyesfurniture.com/plans
Domino or Papa John's? Or maybe Pizzahut?
@@stankolodin5586 or little Caesar’s
Your presentation style is hilarious; love ya guys!
As a hobbyist, it was tough/impossible to justify the Domino, but now that I've had one for a year I can't imagine life without it. I have probably completed at least a half dozen projects I never would have started pre Domino. We all live within the iron box of the 24 hour day and the Domino allows you to get sh%t done extremely accurately and quickly. And if you find yourself not using it, you can sell it and suffer remarkably little depreciation.
Yeah, I think the resale value is a key consideration. With Festool's price increases each year, it doesn't take long to be able to recoup nearly 100% of your investment into the tool while the next person still gets a good deal.
Nicely said. I’m a domino agnostic but I think I may become a believer!
I'm of the opinion that professionals and non retired hobbyists have similar time constraints. One for money and the other to have family time too. So tools that save time are very valuable to both.
Just bought one but haven't had opportunity to use it yet as I'm in the middle of workshop reorganization hell. (Took nearly everything out, painted the walls, etc.) Looking forward to making some money and getting sh%t done.
@@stephen1137 Same situation for me
You won one internet at 0:20. I particularly appreciate that you took the time to center the pizza slice tip with the screw before the attempt. I think it was a honest try.
"Foureyes, proudly bringing the same precision to our Dad jokes as we do for our furniture." Love it.
I dig that tagline.
Professional turned hobbyist here, I bought one about 6 years ago for a couple of jobs - paid for itself in one job. Now I just build furniture for myself and friends/family and I still use it a ton!
I've been using a trim router with a plunge base along with different types of jigs, bases, and attachments to make mortices for DIY dominos. I took delivery of a DF 500 a few days ago and what previously took me a significant amount of time took minutes with the Domino. I fall into the hobbyist camp, and at first I actually enjoyed the extra layout and thought that went into setting up for router mortices. But now that I've made several practice joints with the Domino, I can't imagine going back to my old ways.
I think that's the reality of what a lot of people would experience. There is certainly no situation where you NEED a domino. It's just quicker in a lot of situations. And like you said, where you take enjoyment from coming up with alternative ways...most people, after a few times of doing that, they've gotten all the enjoyment they need from that...and you'd rather just get the piece assembled quickly and without error.
Check out our RUclips; texascarpenter for a Festool Domino 500 hack that’ll convince you on this tool 👍🏼
@@tabooretka I wouldn't suggest the DF 500 is limiting, but rather a job's requirements can exceed its capabilities. When that happens, I just go back to using a router to make the mortise and mill up some tenons to whatever size I need. I've never felt limited in what I can do on a project because I have a DF 500. There are many ways to solve a problem (including buying a larger DF 700!) ;-)
I love the professionalism and cleanliness of your videos. Thanks for clearing all doubts and being as unbiased as possible!
Thanks! we appreciate that :)
You guys know what you're talking about, but what sets you apart is your style and calm personalities. I really enjoy all your videos. Keep it up! Greets from Costa Rica.
I liked the ending where you're having a conversation with each other. It feels much more organic.
After 4 years of woodworking, I finally got one. It arrived today (DF500) and I am in love. Got a project coming up that will heavily utilize it (waterfall bench), so I finally bit the bullet.
I've been using them for years. Finally bought my own. I get so tired of people saying mean things to guys who build furniture because it is "easy mode." Sure the joinery might not be as interesting as something like half laps or the crazy stuff that the japanese do with dovetails but whatever. Joinery doesn't always need to be the center of the piece. If you want something sturdy, reliable, and with more functions that you really need then the domino is the way to go. Great video. Thanks as always guys.
Indeed. My reply to that has always been that my goal is the end result...and whatever means gets me there best and with the least error is the way I prefer.
I get my DF500 today after six weeks of waiting for the delivery. I can not wait to try it and use on the regular basis.
@@KarelKubela You’re going to love it. I highly suggest making your own dominos. Dominos are great for strength and alignment, but if you want to ad some style, it really ads flare making through tendons with walnut Domino in light colour wood, or vice versa.
@@Foureyes.Furniture Just curious, and maybe playing devil's advocate, where might you draw the line? In other words, if your goal is to end up with a piece of furniture that is functional and beautiful -- and presumably that you've designed -- the best, fastest, most-accurate way to achieve that goal could be to outsource the building entirely ... either by hiring someone to build it or relying totally on automation (if that's possible or could be someday). So at what point on that spectrum would you lose the sense of pride or accomplishment? Another way of looking at it, what percentage of hands-on, process-oriented involvement do you need to still be happy about, and feel connected to, the end result?
@@KarelKubela3 year opinion? I just got a duo doweler and am thinking about adding a domino to the mix also …I do mostly installs and site work . A lot of panels and other finish features
I'll say that as a hobbyist, I really have very limited time in my workshop. If a process like a domino can free up an afternoon's worth of work to keep my project moving, it's totally worth it.
Nice way of looking at it. I tend to deny myself these kinds of toys because I find that I wouldn’t use them enough so not worth it for a hobbyist.
@@Duci1989 I built my son a nice mission style bookshelf using dowel joinery before I got my domino. It was frustrating and took 6 months with lots of mistakes to get it right. Looking back, had I had my domino I could have done all of the joinery in a weekend.
I’m with you 100%. I get very little shop time. So when I’m there, I’d like the time to be as productive and enjoyable as possible. Saving a few bucks is usually the last thing to cross my mind.
K@@HybridWoodworks
Just so you know this single comment cost me a lot of money because it pushed me to finally buy the DF700. 😂
I bought my Domino after several years of saving and thinking about it. I’ve had it for almost a year now. NEVER once have I regretted it. It’s everything I expected it to be and more. Way faster and more accurate. I tried a doweling jig to “save money”. However it was nothing compared to the Domino. Well worth it!
As a builder and woodworker for longer than you guys have been alive,I’ve always wanted a Domino but will never own one. At least not until the patent runs out and they’re made affordable. I love my “plate joiner” and the Domino picks up where the biscuits fall short and thats shear strength. Plate joiner is better for edge glue ups because it has forgiveness to it and is cheaper. When I priced a domino in Canada,it cost more than my 3 hp Tablesaw. No hand tool should cost that much unless you’ll give me an unconditional lifetime warranty.Love what you guys do,cheers.
Where are you buying a $300 3hp table saw? Domino’s price is set by Festool which is $1099usd
@@snydercustomwoodwork in Canada with tax as of June 2022 they start at $1700 for the 500, $2500 for the 700. My three hp left tilt saw with a used Delta 52” fence was $1700.
Maybe when my kiddos are grown and I'm retired I'll spend all day chopping dovetails and mortises... but in the meantime, my domino enables me to make the most of the couple hours per week I get in the shop. Cheers!
Great comment!
God knows how long these films take you guys to make... but just know it's hugely appreciated! Especially the line animations - super clear what's going on. Thanks guys!
Watched it. Bought one. You were correct. Speed and accuracy.
I have a commercial 3 HP horizontal mortiser. Man you never see anyone use those anymore. But it works great when I can use it. It’s just hard to carry around the shop.
Thanks Guys. You had me waving back on reflex!
I love the way you mix your talent, knowledge and workmanship with a great sense of humor.
Bill
I’m a very new hobbyist woodworker. Justified the purchase of the domino by building a few pieces of furniture and with the infallible logic that time is money! Have no regrets so far. Though I haven’t attempted the joinery you discussed with the chair project, I would think it could be made much simpler by approaching it as you would for dominos with a shelf in a cabinet - mark the seat top for location of dominos, mark a line for the alignment of the lower side of the seat on the leg assembly, then reference the base of the domino off this line by clamping the seat to the leg assembly (as you would a shelf on a cabinet).
It's nice to hear talk about "results" woodworking. So many RUclips guys are always engaged in process, and I assume they believe their audience is as well. Great video, and equally great assessment of the different techniques for joinery. Thank you, and keep up the great work.
Check out our RUclips; texascarpenter for a Festool Domino 500 hack that’ll convince you on this tool 👍🏼
Real nice video guys 👌.
I'm not sure if it's helpful or not but thought I'd share. When I'm using a domino (or biscuiter) and have to use the machine in a vertical position with a straight guide, I find it much quicker (and accurate) to use the peice you marked as, the straight edge. So in your example of the chair base to leg assembly, if you used the chair base, with its original markings on, as the straight edge you're good to do. No finding a straight edge, no transfering marks inaccurately, no extra time spent
Thank you for your help. I am not a woodworker, just an artist who paints and was thinking of doing my own frames and mortises with a Festool Domino...
Cheers from Quebec, Canada.
Great video guys! That was a great breakdown of domino vs non-domino joinery, Really digging how you've broken down the processes here and shown examples for each.
Thanks man...appreciate it :)
Nice work on the video boys! That intro really got me
Have one. Zero regrets. That thing is a time saver and it allows for some more creative solutions to problems in funky angles.
Totally!
I really liked the conversation/interview style at the end. I also really related the perspective of either enjoying the process or the result. Thank you both for an excellent video presentation.
I think there’s also something to be said for the enjoyment of using the tool as well. As a hobbyist the few minutes time savings isn’t that big of a deal. However I do enjoy using a clever piece of machinery. Not to mention the dust collection is really good.
Nice vid by the way!
Good to know about the dust collection. I use a router for some of these tasks right now and dust is out of control.
I recently acquired a Domino that was barely used and I'm very much a hobbyist. Your assessment at the end is dead on. I enjoy completing the project more than the process. But that is exactly where it falls for hobbyist - if you enjoy the process then it may not be for you. This is also why I bought a Leigh dovetail jig. Exactly the same. Great assessment!
This is the best video I have seen about using a Domino. And I've seen a lot
That end bit totally gave me podcast vibes. Not sure if there's already a FourEyes podcast, but if there's not, I'll be the first of many to say I would listen to every single episode.
One other thing. The banter at the end was super great. You guys should add that to your videos for sure.
Your videos somehow keep getting better! So informative and still hilarious. Been pondering over buying a domino for a while now and this has definitely helped make my decision. Thanks a bunch.
You two and Rich rebuilds are the highlights of my week
for me i purchased the Lamello zeta p2 is the go for me because, you can do a lot of things with the climax system for more with a lot of time saving
"Should you?" More like "Can you?" ... they're almost completely out of stock and backordered everywhere due to pandemic slowdowns in Germany. I somehow got really lucky when I ordered mine last week. As a hobbyist who both enjoys "the slow stuff" and "just getting stuff done", it made sense to get this to save time on a large number of upcoming cabinet/bookshelf projects I talked myself into doing myself "to save money" ... so I need to spend some of that money I'm saving.
Best video I've seen on the subject so far. Well done.
Great discussion that really helped me make my decision to buy a Domino. I do a lot of continuous grain joinery, the miter ability sold me!
Thanks for your video, I searched for this similar answer as well. End result is the domino simplifies my life. I still use conventional mortise and tenon but the speed can't be matched. Biscuits, they aren't in the same league. Only dowels are in the same league. The domino is the best choice if you use it a lot. Thanks again, btw, you probably won't ever meet anyone that bought the domino say they regret it.
This is easily the best video I've ever seen on the Domino. The spectrum of process vs. result is exactly the way I see the tool (as a hobby woodworker). I'm at a stage in woodworking where I'm building a lot of furniture I'm using in my house so getting to the finished project is my priority and I use the Domino a lot. Later in life, I see myself going more towards hand tools and slowing down and enjoying the process. At that point, I would of course not use the Domino but instead enjoy the process of making whatever joint I'm making. The concept of process vs. result in woodworking is really the key to understanding many aspects of the hobby. This same argument applies to most CNC work as well.
Check out our RUclips; texascarpenter for a Festool Domino 500 hack that’ll convince you on this tool 👍🏼
Guys, I loves your video productions. Not only very informative, but hilarious as well. Let's face it; who can't use a good laugh nowadays? Thanks.
I watched this video on quarter speed. Love your work!
Haha, that sounds like a terrible time, but we appreciate it!
“That’s why I watch movies on 1/4 speed” 😂 sooo funny!
I almost got one a couple weeks ago but I decided to spend a small fortune on a Sawstop #savethefingers
That's not a bad decision at all.
Definitely the smart move.
You won’t regret it. 👍🏻
There's no sawstop in this price range 😁
@@hinduspl The jobsite starts at $1399 so you can literally buy a Sawstop for less then a domino. I'm not a Sawstop salesman or anything, I wouldn't buy that one for me but...just saying..
Loved this video. You guys are hysterical. Think your conclusion is spot on! I go both ways - LoL - that is, sometimes I relish the time spent cutting dovetails by hand and nearly always showcase that kind of exposed joinery in every piece I make, in fact it’s a signature for me. But for MANY, many joints (tables legs to skirts for example) the domino is the way to go, long replacing my traditional approach of old school mortise and tenons cut much too slowly and with too many human errors with various tools. Thanks fellas. Bravo.
Festool (a German Company) designed the tool with metric measurements in mind. We here in the United States use the imperial system of measure. This makes furniture building a challenge. I spend a lot of time keeping the two systems of measure straight in my mind. Mistakes still happen. I know people make conversion devices to be used with the Domino cutter but, it would be a lot better to make an imperial version of the tool.
I think that’s part of the allure and charm. I’m a full time carpenter and grew up with imperial. I think it’s just not going to happen - on some tools I will see guys put reference marks at common thicknesses for track saw etc. Anyhow , happy new years
Just ordered the DF 500 yesterday. Been on the fence for years about taking the plunge. I don't work on-site any more, but have spent a fortune over the years on tools in general - pretty much 2 or 3 of everything - and kept telling myself that I just wouldn't be able to justify the cost. Then it occurred to me, well, that I don't have to! Yes, I do enjoy pottering in the garage, but I also like the idea of coming out - sooner, rather than later - with something tangible in exchange for the time spent.
So, I'm checking out various pointers on where to get started, and noobie mistakes to avoid.
Great video! One point, for some of us hobby types, learning to use the Domino is part of the process we enjoy too.
There was a legendary Seattle tool dealer, woodworker and sage named Tashiro. We were talking about different ways to make a Japanese plane. During the discussion Tashiro posed the question, What is time? Knowing it was a trap I meekly squeaked, Money? He shook his head and chide me, No time is life. Do it the fast way and don’t waste your life. I would speak with him for an hour and leave his small store with a single Japanese saw blade. He made no money but I never felt it was wasted time or as Tashiro would call it, life.
That’s my kind of store and person. Sounds like your guy isn’t around anymore?
@ Tashiro was an old guy when I visited his small store/shop in the late 80’s early 90’s. There were actually inexpensive spaces to rent in certain neighborhoods of Seattle and they weren’t inhabited by unhoused and drug addicted people. A very different place than today.
@ it’s a shame when we are losing spaces like that which make cities worth being in. Chicago has unhoused and drug enslaved people taking over parks and open paces too -for the last few years it’s been terrible .
I really love to talk shop, tools and trades myself and even just thinking about the bars I’d go to 20 years ago as a kid (20’s) with all the tradesmen shooting the breeze that are now a lousy Panera or Starbucks . What a racket! Property and rent are disgustingly unattainable for many.
Here’s to a better new year , cheers
Your dry humor is an absolutely perfect fitment for April fools. Honestly, this could have been a normal video and I would have enjoyed it as much. That corgy puppet is so fucking cute. Reminds me a lot of Cowboy Bebop and the Queen.
Great review and summary, Also great that you didn’t just make a 10 minute video but something with a decent amount of relevant content. Good job
Useful informative video. Regarding difficulties in using Dominos in certain non-parallel constructions, I find that accurate traditional layout skills can transform almost every such situation into a simple matter of clamping an accurate guide piece onto a line appropriately offset from the intended line where the edge of one piece should meet the surface of the other, and then guiding the machine's base off the guide piece, i.e. ignoring use of the flip down fence altogether. Frank Klausz recommends a similar strategy of working off the machine's base, rather than fence, to simplify use of biscuit joiners.
oh boi these intros just get better and better ♥️😂
Thanks :)
@@Foureyes.Furniture I think that with all the skits and "stand up” interviews you are doing in the office and the shop nowadays, a video with DIY sound absorption panels making is in order. This would greatly improve the sound quality. Otherwise, another awesome 4eyes video. Thank you, guys!
Great video as always. Even my gf who has no interest in woodworking enjoys watching your content with me.
The discussion at the end of this video was particularly important because I think its an important distinction for me (a keen hobbyist with little time, and complete lack of space to work with) to define if I enjoy the process more, or the satisfaction of the finished article. Somehow I've never considered this. Will definitely help define all of my future purchases.
Okay...the comedy is pretty good. The biscuit scene . . . loved it!
I’m a huge advocate of the DowelMax doweling jig. I’m really curious if you’ve heard of it or used it? I find it’s incredibly fast and accurate. I’d love to see a speed comparison between that and the domino. Just for viewers’ reference.
That transition out to the outro at 15:00 is absolute gold.
There is too many comments thanking only the knowledge delivered in this video.. but not nearly enough comments appreciating the many excellent gags
I have to admit this is one of the more even-handed looks at the Domino. Thanks. If money weren’t an object I would definitely have one, but until I can I’m glad there’s other methods to get it done.
This was really helpful! Two questions on the floating tenon:
1) How wide should the tenon be, and at what depth do you cut the mortises? It looks like the tenon is about 1" wide, so would you cut the mortises 5/8"? 9/16"?
2) What's the difference/benefits between a floating tenon and rabbiting the top edge on a panel so the bottom edge acts as the tenon?
Love the videos!
Its a time saver and makes joining boards easier. The 500 was sold out so i got the 700. Its an amazing tool and well worth it imo. Thanks for this
Totally agree!
Bought one and used it for a few projects. Sold it for 90% of what I paid. I’ll probably do the same next time I need one since I don’t use it very often
I'm not a powertool guy, I like the process of cutting dovetails and I prefer old school furniture, but I love your videos and the furniture you guys make. Good call
Appreciate it, Kevin! I am the same way, just from the opposite side.
@@shaunb66 Isn't it awesome that the craft has space for both of us!
Great editing, good job guys
Can you move the pieces around at all with the festool tenons in place, when clamping up…?
The advantage of biscuits in commercial cabinetmaking is you don’t have to be perfect, you can move the pieces not only horizontally 1/8” but like 1/32” vertically when you’re clamping it up.
Dowels have to be absolutely perfect, which is what makes them difficult to use.
I got a Jessem doweling jig and it works great for me for now. So much else to buy before I get a domino.
Nice! That is definitely a good way to get it done.
Chris. In ref to referencing the domino on the chair. Why not use it like any other panel where you use the seat as a panel and lay it down then reference the inner joint? Love love love you guys. I love my domino. Both the large and small. But I do use the 500 about 95% of the time. Congrats on your well earned success gents!!
That right there was an awesome honest opinion! Thank you.
I liked the end summary of end result or process enjoyment. I am towards the end result of the spectrum so enjoy having the Domino. I will say that as just a hobbyist that doesn't use it daily there can be learning curve each time you pick it up for a different situation. I make lots of tests for any new technique. If it has been awhile since I last did a similar technique I might need to test it out again.
Good point. I hope people took that away. We always tend to think of it as this simple tool. And for certain situations it is. But there are a lot of complex things/situations we use it for/in
Nice video. I enjoyed the well thought out pro/con presentation. I'm a hobbiest woodworker myself. And while I do enjoy cutting joints, I'm looking at my next project with it's three dozen mortise and tenon joints, and the enthusiasm is fading fast. I think the 500 will be joining my tool collection before I tackle it for sure.
Nice video. Biscuits and Dominos are not the same. I owned a two biscuit systems for well over 20 years and a Domino system for over 11 years. Biscuits add minimal extra strength to a joint. That little extra strength might be all you need but the correct domino adds substantial extra strength. I find little difference in installation speed with either method. I would never use a biscuit for a loose tenon application. They are however great for glue-up alignment. I’ve used both systems for reinforcing miter joints. Biscuits are often adequate for frames and such but Dominos are seriously stronger.
Great job y’all. Your points are really fair and easily understandable when measured against the various experience/production tiers you mentioned 👏🏻
Great video. I've had a domino for years and I love it.
Y'all crack me up - thanks for doing these videos -- off to get me a domino machine soon
Great video a lot of good ideas in here it was an enjoyable view I learned some things , appreciated
This is a great and very comprehensive Domino review. Learning the tricks with irregular setups such as your chair example will slow down a novice problem solving the solution. I wish a video like this was available when I began with the Domino years ago. 👍👍
Check out our RUclips; texascarpenter for a Festool Domino 500 hack that’ll convince you on this tool 👍🏼
I like the discussion at the end. I have done both hand tool joinery as well as the quicker stuff like pocket holes. While I find it fascinating doing the hand tool joinery, in the end, I'm looking forward to the finished product rather than the journey itself. I would love to be able to afford a domino one day because not only is it fast/accurate, it is a very strong joint and a much better tool for clean furniture without having to hide other types of joinery.
Great video👍!There are woodworkers who need festool domino and there are woodworkers who admit that they need...
Well done. Thanks.
I bought my domino 6 years ago, have used it a lot, but still, the secondhand value is more than I paid for it :)
I knew a lot of this as I have been in the middle of this decision BUT you added so much to the discussion
Thank you!
Glad to hear that! Thanks Carl.
You guy's need a show, awesome video guy's! Subscribed 👍👍
Really wish this awesome video didn't come out when the Domino was backordered for months at a time... Amazing tool!
@6:22 the Domino can be nice for this scenario. If you use a darker wood Domino you can make a through tendon that looks pretty good.
I own the clampzilla. Great clamps! A splurge purchase, admittedly.
The annoying thing is the monopoly. Festool having the only domino means that esp in Norway, where only motek can sell festool-tools, the domino costs an arm and a leg.
Wonder when the patent will end
@@Duci1989 2024 i think. I belive I read that it was patented in 2004,
Festools are an arm and a leg no matter where you get them.
@@cyclemadness true, but if the domino is about 700$ in the us (from what ive heard on YT) its more than twice the price in Norway.
@@kellendil Holy Cow!!!
Perfect chaotic energy throughout this whole video
A lot to think about. Informative, thank you. Truly enjoy the videos.
Our pleasure! Glad you enjoyed :)
One thing, I Think, makes the Domino more Compatible is, that you could cut Dominios on the CNC wich eliminates the need for setting up the Handtool.
Yes, you can cut Dowls and floatig tennons on the CNC as well, But with tha handheld Domino you can make the same joinery on parts, that dont fit/don´t need the CNC. With almost same accuaracy. Yes this does not apply to many hobby woodworkers, but the domino is originally made for Cabinetmakers and Starircase makers. And we use a lot of Big CNC mashinery. so the handheld Domino is a great addition to the Workflow.
Nice work guys. I appreciate it.
Probably also worth noting that it's a tool which loses little (if any) value... big price tag, but having the option to resell it at nearly purchase cost in the future is powerful.
Great video. It did help me make a decision. I like the comparison on best uses and not so good uses with the domino.
I pre-ordered my Domino when it was first released. No regrets.
excellent and objective. Thank you!
Love your editing and your jokes! LOLed a few times throughout the video! haha
So glad I stumbled upon your channel, even tho I don't even do woodwork.
Glad to hear that! Thanks for watching!
Worth noting the Domino's removable connectors system (kv-sys d8) which allows you or your customer to easily disassemble the parts. Also useful when you need to flat pack for shipping and the customer will assemble it. Some biscuit brands have a similar solution.
I have a Makita biscuit joiner. Have used this in a variety of applications, butt joints, miters and also edge to edge panels. The biscuit joiner is, like the domino, a version of loose tenon joinery. I would agree the domino makes close to the ideal replicate of a loose tenon made by hand but see little speed difference vs. the biscuit joiner. In butt and miters, logic dictates it should be stronger but I address this by staggering the biscuit placement in the width of the boards where needed. Router or table saw spline joints are also a competitor. If the domino was a $500-600 investment it would be a no brainer but its the price that causes this to be a discussion.
Great round up. Thanks guys.
At the end you guys got to the key question for a hobbyist woodworker. Which is more important *process* or *product* ?
Biscuits are fine for panel glue up alignment. Dadoes work really well for a lot of butt joints and can be done on the router table or using a plunge router or table saw. However, right now I need to get my other workshop (nothing to do with wood working) organized. I’m working on the second of at least 4 shelf units. I’ll need drawer units under the workbench too, and probably some cabinets. While I’m working on all of that, the chaos in my basement (woodworking central) is out of control. IOW stuffs needs to be done NOW. Can I do most of it with pocket screws? 🤢 Yes but I really don’t want to.
All that said, the cost of the Festool domino is hard to swallow. I could get a router and lift, then make a stand for my old router table top and still spend significantly less. Or I could upgrade to an 8” jointer with helical cutters … Or …. Maybe dowels are the answer.
You can reference with the 20mm setting in the 90degree position and use the base of Domino to center of bit which is a known 10mm distance. I would claim the Domino is the easiest and fastest and would be stronger.
For edge gluing panels the Biscuit is best. It is cheaper. You can also plane the panel with less fear of reaching the Biscuit since it is thinner.
I think the outdoor type Domino looks great with a reddish hue when left exposed as a contrast to a lighter colored wood like Maple. Looks every bit as good as a dowel.
I use a DF500 nearly every day and would like to get a DF700 someday for some bigger work.