100% Agree. A few days ago i had a similar conversation with my playgroup and my conclusion was that there are so many variables with pod comps, turn order, mulligans, treath assestment and politics that tier lists means way less than people actually think from a "best deck" perspective
@@cedhtv S+ is rograhk and thrasios mid range control stax value ramp tokens obliteration finish them triple fatality deck. Nothing like winter orb with that beautiful polar bear art. I’m gonna swim from iceberg to iceberg with my deck and slowly eat you all alive at will :3, even in the world of mtg polar bear is a top tier predator, eating mages and seemingly having magic power of their own to crush living flesh into meat balls. 🎉 the flavor text of the artwork speaks billions of words to the beauty of playing with the card today. I wish static orb had a grizzly bear art or like an orca whale art.
@@cedhtv I feel like wizards also prints more upgrades for midrange decks more constantly. Drafna and battery bearer are good examples of cards that will probably bust into cedh from brothers war set. Both are going in my rograhk thrasios stax control shell.
thinking like this helps you mkae better plays, how do I adapt to what I'm playing agianst. my lgs has a krark sakashima deck and a wizard doubler deck that do very well and are hard to interact with so midbreak trap becomes a stapple answer to me becuase It's a free counter that beats both decks.
I would say that a strict ranking is not great, but there are certainly some very powerful commanders commonly used in cedh that, by ability or color, are just better than other commanders. But I think people just like watching or reading tier lists to see if their opinions are similar, not expecting them to be perfect
Yes I do think there is a ranking on commanders but it will be quite ... not 100% correct I would say. Or hard to get an excat hit. I think it is great for beginners tho. I think tier list are good for people that wanna get into the cEDH format and just get a look at what is recommended.
I always wanted to play "Sygg, River Cutthroat" cause is just a plain good creature that generates value and for just 2 mana. And ofc dimir has the best combo in the format, so I tried out last weekend and I won a game, lost another and tie the last. Top 6 of 16 in the end and playing even matches against "high tier" commanders. Had a lot of fun
I agree with a lot of points, but you have to agree that there are some decks that are straight up better geared versus a lot of different Archetypes and other decks are "just" counter decks against some specific strategies.
I agree there. There are a lot of commanders I dont think are good. But when you come down to making a list of commanders and ranking the top once it is hard to say a commander is better then this other commander.
I would agree that tierlists don't do justice to the number of variables in such a diverse environment as the edh format, but it doesn't need to be an extremely accurate power ranking of all commanders. It can do very well at servicing as a very basic overview of decks that exist, their consistency, and their relative strength. Things like Yeva winning that event (kudos to that pilot, excellent job) does not change that yeva is a low tier commander in the format due to how that performance is not consistent. Super smash bros brawl has a similar tierlist situation where many events are won by the lowest tiered characters in the game but for every low tier that gets top 8 at an event, there are 50 high/top tiers that get those placements in the same timeframe which is why they are that tier. In summary, a no discussion about a commanders viability can ever account of the outliers and infinite variables in any given environment and shouldn't be treated like they need to. They give a perfectly serviceable and accurate depiction of how consistently good they are and help new players immensely in being able to evaluate what decks have the highest average performance in a current meta.
A neuanced video with reasonable opinions?! How dare you! But seriously, this is a good explanation to a complicated problem. I often struggle to explain this very concept to people who are getting into cedh. I may have to steal some of these points for explaining things to people later.
This video is a justification for sideboards in cedh. As always deck power is 1) pilot skill 2) meta selection. True in every format. However sideboards are used in all other competitive formats because of point 2. Edh dosn't have a sideboard and so not all deck have meta options unless they are a "meta deck" and in which case they might well be poorly suited to every pod outside their meta.
So you're making those strategy tier list videos right? I'd much rather see those than Someone rate thrassios tymna for the millionth time. Id rather see the shells discussed and good generals for each. It's the variance that makes the game interesting. I've played stax with a lot of different generals, some better and some worse. It'd be nice to see how the stack up.
Hey I've been working on something new I've been using Codie as a stacks piece in the command zone. So pretty much the deck is 5 color stacks with the commander as a stacks piece to lock out one player I have urza and the green baby urza in the deck as well and so far iv had really good results against kenrith decks and other fast combo decks like ad nas... so pretty much I was wondering have you seen or heard of anyone using codie in this way?? Oh I can also give a deck list of my deck if your interested. Thank you for your time.
remember stax is always a/b solid a choice, if you lock you opponents in a hard prison lock they cant win, which means you cant lose thus eventually win with derevi commando damage
I was trying to explain this concept to a friend of mine just yesterday. I wish I had seen this video first because then I would have been much more succinct. Lol.
I completely agree Mons. In my experience, the meta that I play in has shaped so many of my decisions in deck building. STAX crushes Japanese combo players mwahahaha
S+ is for rograhk and thrasios. Mono blue ad Naus has really pushed my deck. Mono blue ad Naus has way more interactions than regular ad Naus. Mono blue ad Naus is defiler of dreams and shrieking drake. For example llonis + defiler of dreams + academy manufacture + shrieking drake 🥹. Lots of weird stuff happens with mono blue ad Naus. And you can stop and start drawing cards at will. Unlike ad Naus where you spent the ad Naus. Multiple cast triggers. Multiple creature etbs. I’m a winter and static orb deck. So watching me draw all those cards when your mana locked really hurts. I’m stax control in red blue green. I can go infinite with crafty cutpurse and thrasios if an opponent controls smothering tithe. I’ve forced players to remove their own smothering tithe in cedh. My deck plays psychological and political head games like no other.
100% Agree.
A few days ago i had a similar conversation with my playgroup and my conclusion was that there are so many variables with pod comps, turn order, mulligans, treath assestment and politics that tier lists means way less than people actually think from a "best deck" perspective
S is for Sisay
100% Correct!
@@cedhtv S+ is rograhk and thrasios mid range control stax value ramp tokens obliteration finish them triple fatality deck. Nothing like winter orb with that beautiful polar bear art. I’m gonna swim from iceberg to iceberg with my deck and slowly eat you all alive at will :3, even in the world of mtg polar bear is a top tier predator, eating mages and seemingly having magic power of their own to crush living flesh into meat balls. 🎉 the flavor text of the artwork speaks billions of words to the beauty of playing with the card today. I wish static orb had a grizzly bear art or like an orca whale art.
@@cedhtv I feel like wizards also prints more upgrades for midrange decks more constantly. Drafna and battery bearer are good examples of cards that will probably bust into cedh from brothers war set. Both are going in my rograhk thrasios stax control shell.
Thanks for talking favorably about Toxrill.
thinking like this helps you mkae better plays, how do I adapt to what I'm playing agianst. my lgs has a krark sakashima deck and a wizard doubler deck that do very well and are hard to interact with so midbreak trap becomes a stapple answer to me becuase It's a free counter that beats both decks.
I would say that a strict ranking is not great, but there are certainly some very powerful commanders commonly used in cedh that, by ability or color, are just better than other commanders. But I think people just like watching or reading tier lists to see if their opinions are similar, not expecting them to be perfect
Yes I do think there is a ranking on commanders but it will be quite ... not 100% correct I would say. Or hard to get an excat hit. I think it is great for beginners tho. I think tier list are good for people that wanna get into the cEDH format and just get a look at what is recommended.
I always wanted to play "Sygg, River Cutthroat" cause is just a plain good creature that generates value and for just 2 mana. And ofc dimir has the best combo in the format, so I tried out last weekend and I won a game, lost another and tie the last. Top 6 of 16 in the end and playing even matches against "high tier" commanders. Had a lot of fun
Like you said card draw and dimir colors.
Cool man I've always thought that card was grossly under appreciated
Yup, that's bc. Sygg has always been good, but just not ever considered FOTM or sexy
I love watching your videos. This has been how I have been learning about the game before I finally settled on yuriko and Najeela to invest
I agree with a lot of points, but you have to agree that there are some decks that are straight up better geared versus a lot of different Archetypes and other decks are "just" counter decks against some specific strategies.
I agree there. There are a lot of commanders I dont think are good. But when you come down to making a list of commanders and ranking the top once it is hard to say a commander is better then this other commander.
I would agree that tierlists don't do justice to the number of variables in such a diverse environment as the edh format, but it doesn't need to be an extremely accurate power ranking of all commanders. It can do very well at servicing as a very basic overview of decks that exist, their consistency, and their relative strength. Things like Yeva winning that event (kudos to that pilot, excellent job) does not change that yeva is a low tier commander in the format due to how that performance is not consistent. Super smash bros brawl has a similar tierlist situation where many events are won by the lowest tiered characters in the game but for every low tier that gets top 8 at an event, there are 50 high/top tiers that get those placements in the same timeframe which is why they are that tier. In summary, a no discussion about a commanders viability can ever account of the outliers and infinite variables in any given environment and shouldn't be treated like they need to. They give a perfectly serviceable and accurate depiction of how consistently good they are and help new players immensely in being able to evaluate what decks have the highest average performance in a current meta.
Agree. I think tier list for beginners make total sense. But I also think you can have something half explaining.
Hey monz will you put gwena eyes of gaea in sissay. Its a legendary dork that can cover 2 of her color on her ability.
Selvala is better in my opinion. Same CMC and gives you more mana on tap.
@@cedhtv you know i forget selva doesnt add just green mana sometimes.
A neuanced video with reasonable opinions?! How dare you! But seriously, this is a good explanation to a complicated problem. I often struggle to explain this very concept to people who are getting into cedh. I may have to steal some of these points for explaining things to people later.
GLad you like it. But A neuanced video? Really?
What commander can keep up or beat kess?
I would say a lot of them. Similar grix turbo combo commanders. Stax commanders. Yeah more or less that.
Much respect man. Stay true to yourself. Too many variables.
This video is a justification for sideboards in cedh. As always deck power is 1) pilot skill 2) meta selection. True in every format. However sideboards are used in all other competitive formats because of point 2. Edh dosn't have a sideboard and so not all deck have meta options unless they are a "meta deck" and in which case they might well be poorly suited to every pod outside their meta.
I actually like sideboards in cEDH but the ones I playd with didnt.
So you're making those strategy tier list videos right? I'd much rather see those than Someone rate thrassios tymna for the millionth time. Id rather see the shells discussed and good generals for each. It's the variance that makes the game interesting. I've played stax with a lot of different generals, some better and some worse. It'd be nice to see how the stack up.
We all know that Prismatic Piper Ovaltine is the best cEDH deck nowadays. 😎🍻
It is the new meta!
Where would you put Circu, Dimir Lobotomist?
Just a little bit of an all around opinion 😅
hahaha. Well. I think there are other commanders that dose the same thing but better.
I know, but I like him (and house dimir) quite a lot 😅
But yeah, he's quite outdated in all of Commander 😂
Hey I've been working on something new I've been using Codie as a stacks piece in the command zone. So pretty much the deck is 5 color stacks with the commander as a stacks piece to lock out one player I have urza and the green baby urza in the deck as well and so far iv had really good results against kenrith decks and other fast combo decks like ad nas... so pretty much I was wondering have you seen or heard of anyone using codie in this way?? Oh I can also give a deck list of my deck if your interested. Thank you for your time.
remember stax is always a/b solid a choice, if you lock you opponents in a hard prison lock they cant win, which means you cant lose thus eventually win with derevi commando damage
You are quite right with your opinion, it all depends on the pod
I like the way you think. Totally outside of the box
I was trying to explain this concept to a friend of mine just yesterday. I wish I had seen this video first because then I would have been much more succinct. Lol.
What do mean that tier lists might not fully explain cedh?
Yeah I don't think a tier list will explain cEDH. It is not a good list to look at and know what cEDH is about.
Crafty cutpurse is a severely undervalued commander card
Just waiting for you to talk about Myrel xD
If your not playing blue in cedh your mostly leaning on seating and others to protect you from combo.
I wouldn't fully agree with that, because there are things like counterspells in red, or like silence from white, and other forms of protection.
emrakul is uncounterable, lol 5:29
S is for Scion :
I like the logic Mons. High 5
High ten!
My favorite thing about this video is that you didn’t even fill in the actual tier list in the background. 😂
I should have had sisay on top of S there when I think about it.
@@cedhtv of course!
The best deck is a deck that doesn't exsist
deep man thats deep.
EDH is general I really struggle to compare cards power value compared to playing 60 card formats. Makes deck building an absolute headache.
The list of Tiers or is it a list of Tears? :) Yay
You have to make your ideas into reality
hahaha. I guess I have to. I kinda said it. But I dont know.
@@cedhtv well its a lot of work. But you dont really have to go in depth into specific decks. As you said at the end of your video
be water my friend
Politics in commander. C'mon mons.
I completely agree Mons. In my experience, the meta that I play in has shaped so many of my decisions in deck building. STAX crushes Japanese combo players mwahahaha
Yay, first view! 😂
GZ!
100% disagree
Would love to hear more.
@@cedhtv no
Lol. 🎉
S+ is for rograhk and thrasios. Mono blue ad Naus has really pushed my deck. Mono blue ad Naus has way more interactions than regular ad Naus. Mono blue ad Naus is defiler of dreams and shrieking drake. For example llonis + defiler of dreams + academy manufacture + shrieking drake 🥹. Lots of weird stuff happens with mono blue ad Naus. And you can stop and start drawing cards at will. Unlike ad Naus where you spent the ad Naus. Multiple cast triggers. Multiple creature etbs. I’m a winter and static orb deck. So watching me draw all those cards when your mana locked really hurts. I’m stax control in red blue green. I can go infinite with crafty cutpurse and thrasios if an opponent controls smothering tithe. I’ve forced players to remove their own smothering tithe in cedh. My deck plays psychological and political head games like no other.
EDH is general I really struggle to compare cards power value compared to playing 60 card formats. Makes deck building an absolute headache.