Love those beastmen. Rules mistake: Organ Guns do not have the Multiple Shot rule. They have their own rule for firing 2x artillery dice of shots. No to hit penalty other than range and cover.
Was going to post exactly this. ‘In addition, a Drilled unit can march whilst within 8" of an enemy unit without first having to make a Leadership test’
Good report (again)! Think Tom was a very good guest, he speaks very clearly and informatively about his army, what he's doing and the game in general, seemed very fair-minded and a good guy. Was a bit of a challenge to watch it all as I knew from both from things you've said previously and to be honest just looking at the lists that it was going to be something of a walloping for the Dwarfs. Still things to be learned though of course. Tom's list isn't to my taste as I like to see more Gors, Minotaurs etc in a Beastmen army though that's really neither here nor there. It's obviously highly competitive (fair enough as you knew what you were getting) and very well put together and he clearly knows what he's doing with it. It does have some character though with being chariot themed and I can imagine it doing battle with or alongside your Marauder Horse Chaos army on the steppes so something to like there. I don't personally like the look of it either though it's very well done and very distinctive so again something to admire regardless. Not sure there's much you could have done against it - so much damage output compared to anything the Dwarfs really have to offer. Even in terms of magic shooting vs Dwarf war machines as well as a huge advantage in combat. Any Dwarf units other than the two bigger combat blocks really had very little chance of sticking around for any length of time against a lot of the stuff in his list and even those two units offer very little in terms of doing much damage back. King was obviously unlucky with his to-wound rolls, but as you said yourself you've spent your allowance on making him so defensive so nothing left to get him killing more. I would definitely be concerned that any change-ups available to the Dwarfs are unlikely to solve the problems you had against something like this (I'm sure there are things that could make improvements - Irondrakes standing out even if I don't really like them and they may well still have died pretty quickly in this game) but I guess that remains to be seen.
Ye man good points on all accounts really: Tom was great to play and on the power level wise sometimes its just a no hope scenario and seeing what the best you can get against the opponent (I was actually fairly happy how the game ended with like 700pts left to me or something) Im still getting to grips with the dwarfs after borrowing them off iain tbh though have just painted up a couple more units to fill in gaps which ill be trying out soon (anvil, bolt throwers, Irondrakes, a slayer though thats not a powerful one) and I think tbh the army is going to have to play different than ive found the other armies ive tried (medium-low cav brets and Chaos mainly)
@@BearfootMiniatures Yes it feels like it's going to take a bit of working out. I've got loads of painting to do, but look forward to playing my Dwarfs down the line and will hopefully have learned a bit more by the time I get to do so. I agree you came out of this one pretty well on the points front, but as a meaningful battle it was pretty lopsided regardless. I do think you were on the wrong end of most of the rules errors (be they debatable ones or otherwise) and getting first turn wouldn't have hurt, but I really don't think it would have made much difference overall. I also don't think people should be overly critical of any mistakes, if anything I think you're doing well to keep them down to as few as you do. One of the main things I got from watching this one was learning more about how complicated combats work - you and Tom were both very clear about how you saw things to be working and it was pretty helpful.
Skirmishers don’t cause panic…rewatching this as I gain more experience with my beasts so I can actually pick things up now that I know what is happening. :)
Not sure what, even a different list, the Dwarfs were going to do against this army. Even with a hill in the deployment zone and a full out gun line, I’m not sure they’ll do enough damage to prevent getting routed off the board.
I honestly think in this edition a list like that is mutch more competitive then a gunline dwarf list. The only think dwarf miss is irondrakes, and list I perfect imo:)
@@tizianomerello6530 The dwarf cannon is one of the worst units in the game, never take a cannon in this addition, especially one with runes pushing it up to 120+ points, its only D3 damage and doesnt even ignore armour anymore! Bloody Awful
I think the impact hits from the duel with lord in the big fight should have gone into the t10 lord and not the unit. Considering he only lost the combat by 1, might have turned things around
ye man: its one for next time certainly! Was filmed pre FAQ and it was after filming I looked into impact hits more (they dont come up much for me with my Chaos, vamps brets or the dwarfs)
'Close order' is a new thing for TOW, didn't exist in WFB. In WFB you used to be able to get one more in rank bonus than you can now (at least for non-horde units). It's a change that on balance is probably going to work out as another negative for infantry vs monsters, chariots etc especially now you can't get the close order +1 for really small or heavily depleted units while the monsters etc keep theirs until they're dead. Most of the rules seem to be designed to make things worse for infantry (or at least elite infantry) and better for other stuff which is obviously going to be difficult for Dwarfs especially.
Fun video…really enjoyed, but will need to come back after actually reading the rules and getting a couple games in. A lot of the analysis was over my head at this point, as clearly you fellows are a couple levels above where I am.
That weird challenge came up in my first ever game ...just have t be in the fighting rank....i challenged across 2 other units to fight the vamp lord on terrorghiest
That's pretty close to the nastiest Beastman list you can make in TOW. Also, call me old fashioned but I think running ungors in skirmish but keeping base contact to screen is a dick move and shouldn't be allowed
It’s a nasty list but the dwarves got hosed by a lot of incorrect rules and illegal charge(s). Organ gun doesn’t get minus 1 for multi shot. Lone character doesn’t apply to chariots, only infantry and cavalry so the BSB was a legitimate target to be shot to bits. Chariots have 360 vision for purpose of shooting and casting spells only, but behave as close order so that last charge wasn’t possible as outside of front arc. +2 rank bonus on previous combat was missed as well. There were some other mistakes that had no to minor effect.
For Beastmen, am I wrong, or does the "gouge-tusks" mutation effect magic weapons as well? It seems to me that it does, and this is THE SICKEST little upgrade in the game that no one is talking about!!! Or am I missing something?
Hey mate: they cant but I dont think I moved over 9" after the vanguard move turn 1 (?) and the other time I used it it was after rallying and just moving a small amount wasn't it (I may be wrong, if I did it otherwise it shouldn't have been done certainly)
@@BearfootMiniatures at 15.21 you said a 10 inch move (which is a march), but perhaps you could have gotten there with 9. Just a small thing, I was just checking.
Doesn't look like it to me The thing they changed is that Close Order only gives the combat resolution bonus if the Unit has unit strength 5 or more. Heavy Chariots like the Beastmen chariots are Unit Strength 5, so they're unaffected (and light chariots typically don't have the Close Order rule).
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Love those beastmen. Rules mistake: Organ Guns do not have the Multiple Shot rule. They have their own rule for firing 2x artillery dice of shots. No to hit penalty other than range and cover.
Im so sorry about my dice rattling and nose sniffling! Thanks max for the game, i had a great time!
Awesome army Tom! Impressive to have such a savage list that looks so good.
FYI drilled units don't need to test to march
Was going to post exactly this. ‘In addition, a Drilled unit can march whilst within 8" of an enemy unit without first having to make a Leadership test’
Lone character is only for infantry or Calvary so characters on chariots can be shot regardless of proximity to other units if they are in los.
Tom's army looks fantastic. Love the Mad Cow units!
Good report (again)! Think Tom was a very good guest, he speaks very clearly and informatively about his army, what he's doing and the game in general, seemed very fair-minded and a good guy. Was a bit of a challenge to watch it all as I knew from both from things you've said previously and to be honest just looking at the lists that it was going to be something of a walloping for the Dwarfs. Still things to be learned though of course.
Tom's list isn't to my taste as I like to see more Gors, Minotaurs etc in a Beastmen army though that's really neither here nor there. It's obviously highly competitive (fair enough as you knew what you were getting) and very well put together and he clearly knows what he's doing with it. It does have some character though with being chariot themed and I can imagine it doing battle with or alongside your Marauder Horse Chaos army on the steppes so something to like there. I don't personally like the look of it either though it's very well done and very distinctive so again something to admire regardless.
Not sure there's much you could have done against it - so much damage output compared to anything the Dwarfs really have to offer. Even in terms of magic shooting vs Dwarf war machines as well as a huge advantage in combat. Any Dwarf units other than the two bigger combat blocks really had very little chance of sticking around for any length of time against a lot of the stuff in his list and even those two units offer very little in terms of doing much damage back. King was obviously unlucky with his to-wound rolls, but as you said yourself you've spent your allowance on making him so defensive so nothing left to get him killing more. I would definitely be concerned that any change-ups available to the Dwarfs are unlikely to solve the problems you had against something like this (I'm sure there are things that could make improvements - Irondrakes standing out even if I don't really like them and they may well still have died pretty quickly in this game) but I guess that remains to be seen.
Ye man good points on all accounts really: Tom was great to play and on the power level wise sometimes its just a no hope scenario and seeing what the best you can get against the opponent (I was actually fairly happy how the game ended with like 700pts left to me or something)
Im still getting to grips with the dwarfs after borrowing them off iain tbh though have just painted up a couple more units to fill in gaps which ill be trying out soon (anvil, bolt throwers, Irondrakes, a slayer though thats not a powerful one) and I think tbh the army is going to have to play different than ive found the other armies ive tried (medium-low cav brets and Chaos mainly)
@@BearfootMiniatures Yes it feels like it's going to take a bit of working out. I've got loads of painting to do, but look forward to playing my Dwarfs down the line and will hopefully have learned a bit more by the time I get to do so.
I agree you came out of this one pretty well on the points front, but as a meaningful battle it was pretty lopsided regardless. I do think you were on the wrong end of most of the rules errors (be they debatable ones or otherwise) and getting first turn wouldn't have hurt, but I really don't think it would have made much difference overall. I also don't think people should be overly critical of any mistakes, if anything I think you're doing well to keep them down to as few as you do. One of the main things I got from watching this one was learning more about how complicated combats work - you and Tom were both very clear about how you saw things to be working and it was pretty helpful.
Skirmishers don’t cause panic…rewatching this as I gain more experience with my beasts so I can actually pick things up now that I know what is happening. :)
Great battle nice to see a different Beasts build.
Is there a breakdown of the Army list
Not sure what, even a different list, the Dwarfs were going to do against this army. Even with a hill in the deployment zone and a full out gun line, I’m not sure they’ll do enough damage to prevent getting routed off the board.
I honestly think in this edition a list like that is mutch more competitive then a gunline dwarf list. The only think dwarf miss is irondrakes, and list I perfect imo:)
@@tizianomerello6530 The dwarf cannon is one of the worst units in the game, never take a cannon in this addition, especially one with runes pushing it up to 120+ points, its only D3 damage and doesnt even ignore armour anymore! Bloody Awful
Wow that Beastmen Army is STUNNING! Honestly legit one of the best armies (whatever system) i've ever seen in terms of theme and character.
Great content & a good natured game, great paint job on the Dwarfs 👏
I think the impact hits from the duel with lord in the big fight should have gone into the t10 lord and not the unit.
Considering he only lost the combat by 1, might have turned things around
Depends when this was filmed compared to the very recent FAQ where this was cleared up.
ye man: its one for next time certainly!
Was filmed pre FAQ and it was after filming I looked into impact hits more (they dont come up much for me with my Chaos, vamps brets or the dwarfs)
Amazing battlereport, plz play more old world😀
Great report, thanks! One question: where's that skirmisher movement tray from?
Warbases make the skirmish trays you see there mate!
Quick thing. The organ gun is multi barreled not multi shot so it dosent have the extra -1 to hit
How many quarrelers had los past one dragon ogre to shoot at the dragon ogre champ?
where did you get the skirmish movement trays!?
Tom’s great to watch, would love to see him more! Has close order always stacked?
In TOW yes, just same banner type that doesn’t.
'Close order' is a new thing for TOW, didn't exist in WFB. In WFB you used to be able to get one more in rank bonus than you can now (at least for non-horde units). It's a change that on balance is probably going to work out as another negative for infantry vs monsters, chariots etc especially now you can't get the close order +1 for really small or heavily depleted units while the monsters etc keep theirs until they're dead. Most of the rules seem to be designed to make things worse for infantry (or at least elite infantry) and better for other stuff which is obviously going to be difficult for Dwarfs especially.
Close order only applies now with 5+ wounds left after the faq
@@cameda09 Really? I thought it was Unit Strength 5 and a model's Unit Strength is based on starting wounds. Happy if I'm wrong though.
As well as some stuff relating to what type of unit it is (cavalry it's 2 even if they only have 1 wound for example), that's what I thought anyway.
Sorry my english isnt the best - which items wearing the beastman characters?
Fun video…really enjoyed, but will need to come back after actually reading the rules and getting a couple games in. A lot of the analysis was over my head at this point, as clearly you fellows are a couple levels above where I am.
Drilled ignores enemy sighted. Also Shankar and razorgor should have tested for it
That weird challenge came up in my first ever game ...just have t be in the fighting rank....i challenged across 2 other units to fight the vamp lord on terrorghiest
That's pretty close to the nastiest Beastman list you can make in TOW.
Also, call me old fashioned but I think running ungors in skirmish but keeping base contact to screen is a dick move and shouldn't be allowed
It’s a nasty list but the dwarves got hosed by a lot of incorrect rules and illegal charge(s).
Organ gun doesn’t get minus 1 for multi shot.
Lone character doesn’t apply to chariots, only infantry and cavalry so the BSB was a legitimate target to be shot to bits.
Chariots have 360 vision for purpose of shooting and casting spells only, but behave as close order so that last charge wasn’t possible as outside of front arc.
+2 rank bonus on previous combat was missed as well.
There were some other mistakes that had no to minor effect.
Skirmishers can't be in base contact. Stated in the rules for skirmishers. 1 mm gap is legal though, so full cover
@@Kcignatiusgross.
For Beastmen, am I wrong, or does the "gouge-tusks" mutation effect magic weapons as well? It seems to me that it does, and this is THE SICKEST little upgrade in the game that no one is talking about!!! Or am I missing something?
It's 30pts when we've got AP coming out of our ears anyway
Dwarfs vs. Beastmen? Predicting total decimation for the Dwarfs.
I thought gyros couldn't use breath weapons if they marched?
Hey mate: they cant but I dont think I moved over 9" after the vanguard move turn 1 (?) and the other time I used it it was after rallying and just moving a small amount wasn't it (I may be wrong, if I did it otherwise it shouldn't have been done certainly)
@@BearfootMiniatures at 15.21 you said a 10 inch move (which is a march), but perhaps you could have gotten there with 9. Just a small thing, I was just checking.
No great weapons on the quarrelers?
what company is the dwarf miniatures from?
Looks like Highland Miniatures.
Did they change the stacking close order in the faq?
Doesn't look like it to me The thing they changed is that Close Order only gives the combat resolution bonus if the Unit has unit strength 5 or more. Heavy Chariots like the Beastmen chariots are Unit Strength 5, so they're unaffected (and light chariots typically don't have the Close Order rule).
👍👍
You UK based if so where abouts?