Yep, totally agree with these comments. I can try the experiment again on different styles. I was thinking about styles that really call for clarity. - John
@@BrewDudes (Initially due to no suitable rooms) - I have done "ambient chilling" in my basement (or on the terrace) for 20-some brews now, I have never felt off-tastes, and clarity-wise I never suffered either (I use whirlfloc though). No problems with Pilsners at least, - I didnt try Kolsch or Saison yet.
A volume of only 1 gallon is much different than 5 gallons or more. It wouldn't take long for a gallon to naturally cool, so id be willing to bet the triangle test would be much more noticeable if this experiment was done with a bigger batch.
last week I did a Baltic Porter, and life made it a much complicated brew than expected I had to cut time somewhere and did a no chill, filled a sanitized corny keg and pitched the yeast next morning, letting it cool 10 hours outside. Fermentation just took 4 days to go to a stable 1010 and it. is amazingly clean smooth and drinkable thanks to the. weihenstephan strain ! I may reevaluate when I package it and taste it, but Nothing wrong with doing a no chill on a non hop forward style. Thanks for your experiments guys, cheers !! Leo
Great experiment. I often brew a 5g batch, but brew 4L shy, and introduce 4L of cold at flame out to knock down to around 80c, just to avoid too many extra IBUs.
That's been on my radar, I've heard several benefits and very few negatives and those seem to be related to not paying attention to cleanliness issues, thanks guys, gotta try it 👍
No- chill has become my method of choice for chilling. I bought a 30 L stainless keg fermenter (kegmenter ) from Kegland primarily for this purpose. I will purge the head space after transfer (using a tube to bottom of keg) and leave it to chill with co2 attached. My primary concern doing No-chill is oxidation. I never had any dms issues. The largest issue for me has been to calculate the IBUs and to guesstimate how much isomerization do I actually get. From published studies we know that isomerization will occur at temps as low at 45°C but very slow. My current method is to wait until temp of wort has reached 80-78°C before adding hopstand hops to my no-chill wort/beer. I would rather have a low bitterness that I can adjust by adding isomerization hop oils like Tetra or similar in the finished beer in fermenter or keg then a overly bitter beer.
Really thought by the ewtlybhe spoke about 2 that that would be the no chill. Really great exoeriemtn guys. I've done no chill and chill and have never been able to notice any poorer quality. Never side by side like this, really validates no chill and let's be honest it's great to rely on if you finish a brew late.
Interesting experiment for sure and it’s certainly something I’m going to try. I’m not convinced you’d get away with it if it wasn’t heavily dry hopped beer. Let face it dry hopping covers a multitude of sins. Love to see the same experiment on a malt forward beer. Thanks for sharing 👍
Yep, agreed. My thought when I posted something on Brew-Dudes.com was that if I was brewing a style that really called for clarity, then the no chill method may not work as well. More to explore, for sure. - John
Interesting ! I have always felt the rapid chill method was to keep consistency from one batch to the next while maintaining the same amount of bitterness. But if every batch is chilled to the same temp and in the same amount of time, that would still be consistent. I have also heard the over night chill method referred to as the Australian method.
I always no chill. I like to steal some wort at the end of the day and start a starter. Then the next day I can pitch it in the cool wort. I like the simplified equipment and process.
In my opinion the main reason for chilling is to reduce the time that the beer is susceptible to contamination. If there is any bacteria and you don't chill, there is a higher chance for the foreign bacteria to establish itself and start fermenting the sugars before you add the yeast. If you chill and add the yeast.
That certainly is the long standing predominant opinion; of which I subscribe to it too. However the Aussies have been pioneers of no chill for a decade. They put hot wort right into plastic square cubes and seal them up tight to chill overnight. There are stories of these guys putting wort aside for weeks with no foreign microbes taking off. My point is the hot wort if handled correctly is nearly sterile and stays that way until exposed. If you put the hot wort (near boiling still) into a fermentor and cap it the bacterial contamination is minimal... it seems. Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes kind of what I do when I no chill, I transfer from kettle to a keg to chill in the fridge to fermenting temps. May not be overnight could just be a few hours. That way its transferred away from the hop matter in the kettle into more of a sealed vessel then transfer into fermentator that again removes some of the extra proteins in suspension.
Wow, Mike is making a hard sell for Sabro! This non-IPA guy might have to jump onto this recipe. I have been reading about and seriously considering no-chill a lot lately. Thanks again guys, great stuff!!!
hellow from Mexico, this last weekend i made my first no cill recipe, im a little bit nervous about the results, but with this video i feel less worried, hope this beers i made taste good, ill let you know in a few weekends
@@benbinks2012 tastes amazing, you should add a little bit less hops than te original recipe ‘cause it adds a little bit of bitterness, I recommend you to make a dark beer so the taste doesn’t change too much
@@saulgoveagovea8073 Hi Saul, thanks for the reply, I plan to do an English Bitter which is medium colour and medium bitterness. I think it should be OK as you say, if I pay attention to my hops. Salud 🍻
@Mark Brown I'm making a NEIPA(ish) beer loosely based on the Perfectly Average NEIPA grist. 9lbs Great Western 2-Row Brewer's Malt 2lbs Flaked Oats 1lb White Wheat Malt 8oz Honey Malt Hop additions are based on what John did. Doing 1oz at 15 minutes, 1oz at flameout, 2oz dryhopped for 4 days. I'm using Lallemand Voss Kveik to ferment because I'm in a hurry to have this beer ready to drink.
Hey guys. Really interested in the flavors that you got. One thought was if there would be a big difference in the flavor cooling a 5 gallon batch vs a 1 gallon batch. Would you be interested in doing another test with all of the other variables being the same?
I can add it to the list. I would need a day to brew and make sure all the variables could be kept the same. I have no chilled a one gallon and a five gallon batch (separately and not the same style) and we perceived no big differences. I could try it again. - John
I’m curious if you’d see a little more difference in a beer that’s got a lot less going on. Like maybe a simple pale, or even a bitter, or pils. I’m pretty sure Mike coined the name on this one “Tremendous Citrus”. Personally I’d rather call it “One Night Stand”, or “Slumber Party”.
Additional question did you overnight chill in the kettle or a fermenter? I've only ever done it in a fermenter. The steam releasing through the airlock is entertaining.
Interesting... I've heard about no chill but never done it. Just to clarify, you chill the wort still in the kettle with the lid on and put it in the fermenter in the morning?
You would think so, but you don't at least this is my experiance. If you stick to malt from the large malt houses you are probably safer than if you use craft malt that maybe more iffy. The large malt houses put a significant effort into reduce smm in their malt. If you have a proper boil you will volatile off the smm and dms to a degree that it is below taste threshold. This is as I mentioned my personal experience after converting to almost exclusive no - chill brewing.
Man, IBU science is really weird. Beer smith says the IBU of this recipe would be over 110, but neither of you gave the impression that it was that bitter. I can't wait for one day the Science of how IBU's are calculated catches up to the real world.
Would love to see such an experiment in a less hoppy beer like a Kölsch or Pilsner...
I was wondering the same thing. Rapid chilling also helps to make a clearer beer, I think. Rapid chilling isn't really a NEIPA technique.
Yep, totally agree with these comments. I can try the experiment again on different styles. I was thinking about styles that really call for clarity. - John
@@BrewDudes (Initially due to no suitable rooms) - I have done "ambient chilling" in my basement (or on the terrace) for 20-some brews now, I have never felt off-tastes, and clarity-wise I never suffered either (I use whirlfloc though). No problems with Pilsners at least, - I didnt try Kolsch or Saison yet.
A volume of only 1 gallon is much different than 5 gallons or more. It wouldn't take long for a gallon to naturally cool, so id be willing to bet the triangle test would be much more noticeable if this experiment was done with a bigger batch.
Very true. I guess you would have to wrap it in blankets or put it in a cooler to hold the heat in longer.
Agree - need to try this experiment with another style/larger volume. - John
I will try another method on this experiment. - John
last week I did a Baltic Porter, and life made it a much complicated brew than expected I had to cut time somewhere and did a no chill, filled a sanitized corny keg and pitched the yeast next morning, letting it cool 10 hours outside.
Fermentation just took 4 days to go to a stable 1010 and it. is amazingly clean smooth and drinkable thanks to the. weihenstephan strain !
I may reevaluate when I package it and taste it, but Nothing wrong with doing a no chill on a non hop forward style.
Thanks for your experiments guys, cheers !!
Leo
Thanks for sharing your experience, Leo. We're glad the technique worked out for you. - John
Great experiment. I often brew a 5g batch, but brew 4L shy, and introduce 4L of cold at flame out to knock down to around 80c, just to avoid too many extra IBUs.
Great tip!- John
How about a no boil comparison? Always been interested in doing that
Adding it to the list! - John
That's been on my radar, I've heard several benefits and very few negatives and those seem to be related to not paying attention to cleanliness issues, thanks guys, gotta try it 👍
Thanks for watching. Cheers! -Mike
No- chill has become my method of choice for chilling. I bought a 30 L stainless keg fermenter (kegmenter ) from Kegland primarily for this purpose. I will purge the head space after transfer (using a tube to bottom of keg) and leave it to chill with co2 attached. My primary concern doing No-chill is oxidation. I never had any dms issues. The largest issue for me has been to calculate the IBUs and to guesstimate how much isomerization do I actually get. From published studies we know that isomerization will occur at temps as low at 45°C but very slow. My current method is to wait until temp of wort has reached 80-78°C before adding hopstand hops to my no-chill wort/beer. I would rather have a low bitterness that I can adjust by adding isomerization hop oils like Tetra or similar in the finished beer in fermenter or keg then a overly bitter beer.
Awesome comment thanks fr the contribution. Cheers! -Mike
Really thought by the ewtlybhe spoke about 2 that that would be the no chill. Really great exoeriemtn guys. I've done no chill and chill and have never been able to notice any poorer quality. Never side by side like this, really validates no chill and let's be honest it's great to rely on if you finish a brew late.
Right on - thanks for the comment - John
Thanks for doing this one, I think this is an important comparison for homebrewers who get stuck in their ways.....
Thanks for the suggestion, Shaun. - John
Interesting experiment for sure and it’s certainly something I’m going to try. I’m not convinced you’d get away with it if it wasn’t heavily dry hopped beer. Let face it dry hopping covers a multitude of sins.
Love to see the same experiment on a malt forward beer.
Thanks for sharing 👍
Yep, agreed. My thought when I posted something on Brew-Dudes.com was that if I was brewing a style that really called for clarity, then the no chill method may not work as well. More to explore, for sure. - John
Interesting ! I have always felt the rapid chill method was to keep consistency from one batch to the next while maintaining the same amount of bitterness. But if every batch is chilled to the same temp and in the same amount of time, that would still be consistent. I have also heard the over night chill method referred to as the Australian method.
Yeah, we have heard the AU connection too. Thanks for the comment. - John
I always no chill. I like to steal some wort at the end of the day and start a starter. Then the next day I can pitch it in the cool wort. I like the simplified equipment and process.
In my opinion the main reason for chilling is to reduce the time that the beer is susceptible to contamination. If there is any bacteria and you don't chill, there is a higher chance for the foreign bacteria to establish itself and start fermenting the sugars before you add the yeast. If you chill and add the yeast.
That certainly is the long standing predominant opinion; of which I subscribe to it too. However the Aussies have been pioneers of no chill for a decade. They put hot wort right into plastic square cubes and seal them up tight to chill overnight. There are stories of these guys putting wort aside for weeks with no foreign microbes taking off. My point is the hot wort if handled correctly is nearly sterile and stays that way until exposed. If you put the hot wort (near boiling still) into a fermentor and cap it the bacterial contamination is minimal... it seems. Cheers! -Mike
@@BrewDudes kind of what I do when I no chill, I transfer from kettle to a keg to chill in the fridge to fermenting temps. May not be overnight could just be a few hours. That way its transferred away from the hop matter in the kettle into more of a sealed vessel then transfer into fermentator that again removes some of the extra proteins in suspension.
Nice one!
Thanks! v
Wow, Mike is making a hard sell for Sabro! This non-IPA guy might have to jump onto this recipe. I have been reading about and seriously considering no-chill a lot lately. Thanks again guys, great stuff!!!
Thanks! - John
hellow from Mexico, this last weekend i made my first no cill recipe, im a little bit nervous about the results, but with this video i feel less worried, hope this beers i made taste good, ill let you know in a few weekends
How did it go? I hope to try no chill soon too :-)
@@benbinks2012 tastes amazing, you should add a little bit less hops than te original recipe ‘cause it adds a little bit of bitterness, I recommend you to make a dark beer so the taste doesn’t change too much
@@saulgoveagovea8073 Hi Saul, thanks for the reply, I plan to do an English Bitter which is medium colour and medium bitterness. I think it should be OK as you say, if I pay attention to my hops. Salud 🍻
I don't think I've seen Mike react to any beer this way. Convinced me to buy 8oz so I can try them next week!
@Mark Brown I'm making a NEIPA(ish) beer loosely based on the Perfectly Average NEIPA grist.
9lbs Great Western 2-Row Brewer's Malt
2lbs Flaked Oats
1lb White Wheat Malt
8oz Honey Malt
Hop additions are based on what John did. Doing 1oz at 15 minutes, 1oz at flameout, 2oz dryhopped for 4 days. I'm using Lallemand Voss Kveik to ferment because I'm in a hurry to have this beer ready to drink.
Ha - he was pleasantly surprised. - John
Hey guys. Really interested in the flavors that you got. One thought was if there would be a big difference in the flavor cooling a 5 gallon batch vs a 1 gallon batch. Would you be interested in doing another test with all of the other variables being the same?
I can add it to the list. I would need a day to brew and make sure all the variables could be kept the same. I have no chilled a one gallon and a five gallon batch (separately and not the same style) and we perceived no big differences. I could try it again. - John
That would be cool . Happy New Year to you all . Cheers
I’m curious if you’d see a little more difference in a beer that’s got a lot less going on. Like maybe a simple pale, or even a bitter, or pils. I’m pretty sure Mike coined the name on this one “Tremendous Citrus”. Personally I’d rather call it “One Night Stand”, or “Slumber Party”.
Ha - thinking we can do this experiment again with a different style. - John
Additional question did you overnight chill in the kettle or a fermenter? I've only ever done it in a fermenter. The steam releasing through the airlock is entertaining.
Ha - I overnight chilled in the kettle. I took it off the flame and then let it sit on the cement floor in my basement covered for the night. - John
Hey, which yeast was what you used ?? Looks and sounds good that beer
SafAle US-05 for both beers! - John
Never mess with a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha Ha Ha =/
I'd say the no chill would have a bit more bitterness, interesting experiment.
Thanks! - John
Interesting... I've heard about no chill but never done it. Just to clarify, you chill the wort still in the kettle with the lid on and put it in the fermenter in the morning?
Exactly. Put the lid on and then let the kettle cool in the ambient temperatures of the room- John
What year crop were the sabro lupomax?
2019 I believe.
Lychees!!! I was waiting for the canned lychees to go with the orange pith 😁
Next time! - John
Chill dudes
Chill beer
Chill vibes
and just chill til the next episode. - John
Yup. Sabro is amazeballs.... fleshy coconut for sure. Lol.
Agreed - John
I do no chill to save water
This Is not the kind of beer that shows the difference; try to brew a clean helles without chilling properly and you will get a vegetable soup aroma.
Thanks - appreciate that thought. We'll add it to the list. - John
You would think so, but you don't at least this is my experiance. If you stick to malt from the large malt houses you are probably safer than if you use craft malt that maybe more iffy. The large malt houses put a significant effort into reduce smm in their malt. If you have a proper boil you will volatile off the smm and dms to a degree that it is below taste threshold. This is as I mentioned my personal experience after converting to almost exclusive no - chill brewing.
Man, IBU science is really weird. Beer smith says the IBU of this recipe would be over 110, but neither of you gave the impression that it was that bitter. I can't wait for one day the Science of how IBU's are calculated catches up to the real world.
Yeah, late hopping really doesn't add bitterness. The IBU calculations get funky in those tools, from my experience. - John