I could see that. They have a tendency to hose any deeper meaning and good storytelling to try to make everything a tentpole blockbuster. I mostly blame the fact that they operate on this weird parasitic relationship with public opinion. They know what it is...kinda....and then crank out the most shallow, insincere and money grabbing characture [sp?] of it. There's plenty of examples, but the first to mind would be Ripley vs Rey. Ripley is a random pilot, who rises to the moment and becomes a badass due to a nightmare ordeal. Rey has a much less inspiring arc which I mostly put at the feet of the writers/suits. Her story could have been great, but bad writing ruined it.
The thing I thought didn't make sense was more basic. The colony ship in the first episode is like something from a next-generation Apollo program, and the crew are highly trained astronauts and scientists ready to head out on a one way trip to the unknown. But as soon as they go missing it turns out Earth has space super-carriers with artificial gravity and everything. It's like having Captain Cook disappear and the WW2 US navy suddenly appearing to go out after him.
I have not seen this show since it was on TV in the 90s. I remember this too. In the first episode couldn't they already fly at light speed or something. It was called the Battle of the Belt. What was special about where the USS Saratoga was? I thought it intercepted the incoming point of the Chigs. In the second episode the USS Saratoga flies to the planet where the rocket went missing. The writing was a little uneven.
Space: Above and Beyond has really big "are we the baddies" energy. When you put FTL and artificial gravity appearing out of nowhere alongside mass human cloning being rolled out to fight small cells of robot terrorists it starts to look like a universe where an X-files style "Shadow Government" is completely real and has over a century's worth of suppressed technology that it's doling out a spoonful at a time in order to stay in power, manipulate public opinion, and *prevent* an age of exploration and diaspora at any cost.
Totally Agree! And what many people didn't know is that this show NAILED the feeling and Esprit De Corps of the actual Marine Corps. I loved this show! Semper Fidelis!
Every Marine is a rifleman first ( or infantryman ) first,their MOS second.And they're very proud of this too.I served with the Marines on my first deployment to go fight( I was in an infantry unit ) In Iraq at Camp TQ. The kind of military this guy is talking about is the army,they operate that way ( I did 7 yrs in the army-LOL ) I did 4 deployments to Iraq with the Texas Guard ( I volunteered for all 4 tours,also did 2 tours back-to-back ) served in infantry units for 3 of those 4 tours. SEMPER-FI
@@user-be7tc2bd6e Okay, but _in practice_ how many Marine fighter pilots did you see being pulled out of the cockpit to serve as enlisted infantry? Because this show literally had the pilots of a Marine fighter squadron (all officers, mind you!) spend their downtime in between conducting flight ops grabbing rifles and acting as an infantry squad.
@@Philistine47 Having the marines be space pilots was a cost saving measure,you don't have to hire extra actors to be pilots. This saved lots of money for the production of the show.
There is a SMALL rational for this with the idea that pushing relatively combat forces very far out into space means they have to be more jack-of-all-trades than real units. (see Colonial Marines in Aliens for this also)
I would argue that Fox's scheduling shenanigans played more of a role in the show getting cancelled after a single season rather than the writing. It aired on Sunday nights at nine...except most nights it would get delayed by two or three hours as they also picked up the NFL that year and it would often run over.
They would also shuffle and skip episodes as they went along. Same thing that they did with Firefly just constantly screwing with things with showing it.
The rumour for cancellation at the time was that Rupert Murdoch wanted to move production of S:AB to the newly created Fox Studios in Sydney (Australia) for tax breaks and and cheaper production costs, but none of the main cast wanted to move across the planet and that's what killed it.
i dont think fox ever really nailed sci-fi. they like to make shows, even good shows (firefly), and kill them after one season. streaming seems to do the same thing. so i dont even start watching shows until they have had 2 or 3 seasons.
It was definitely bungled by Fox scheduling. They kept pre-empting it on Sundays, and then they moved it to a weeknight opposite some of the biggest shows of the time. My roommates and I avidly watched this...even with all the rescheduling and shifting schedules. Some other analyses pointed out that, while the mid-90s was a relatively optimistic era, S:AAB had a very cynical take on governments and corporations...a take that fit, as explained here, in the immediate post-Vietnam era, or would fit well today, but that contrasted starkly with most of what was filling the airwaves at the time. Given the fact that the writers were the same team that steered The X-Files through several of the show's most successful and memorable seasons, I have no doubt that they had a vision for where the story would go...but it became rapidly apparent that Fox was not going to give S:AAB the same kind of support that it gave X-Files...and I feel like they kind of stopped worrying about developing the throughline about a third of the way through the single season it ran. There was still plenty of over-arching plot exposition...but the stories became increasingly episodic and disconnected, and many of them could have been about almost any Marine unit in the war and they would have worked almost as well. As far as the question about their MOS...never really bothered me too much. I just shrugged it off as the USMC diversifying the capabilities of their aviation units, either as a cost-cutting measure or because space-aviation could involve squadrons winding up in potentially diverse environments with minimal support. Don't forget, at the point where the whole story started, Marines were slated to deploy as security forces for planetary colonies. That was the whole reason Nathan enlisted. Wouldn't be very economical to have to set up a base with facilities for aviation, infantry, and armor units...more economical to cross-train units to be able to do a little of everything--especially since, at the time, there weren't any major threats to counter, and most colonial security forces were basically the political version of a child's security blanket...they were there so the colonists could sleep more soundly at night, knowing that it was someone else's problem if something went wrong. The only threats they knew of were possibly pirate traffic, or Silicates, and they had no reason to think the Silicates (or pirates) would be a major threat, as they'd only have whatever resources they'd been able to scrounge or salvage. The Wild Cards were well into their flight training when the Chigs made their presence known, and there suddenly became a need for specialized unit training again.
You forgot the Gulf War which was 4 years earlier. This is one episode that is overtly Vietnam, but the show also drew on aspects of the Gulf War like Gulf War syndrome. This was a good show, probably the best of the second tier shows (X-files, Star Trek, and B5 being the big hitters), and didn't deserve cancellation but the '90s was a strange period where a lot of good shows got cancelled and a lot of bad shows got multiple seasons.
" Wings " tv show about a pair of brothers working as pilots in a small county airport. Mostly comedy drama, my peer group liked to pretend this is what life was like for non-military station personal earning blue color jobs.
Morgan and WOng both worked on Xfiles earlier. They latter did American Horror story. I think this was less polished with Xfile, because they didn't have the same people backing them.
Also, the Bosnian War just ended. I got a distinct Balkan war feeling from some episodes. Earth literally just went trough a civil war, like the Balkans and the stories about the pilots having to survive behind enemy lines, had big Capt. Scott F. O'Grady feels to it. You had work camps, ethnic clensing and the military feeling powerless despite all the tech they had, while back door politics mudded the waters at all times.
The show was, first and foremost, "WWII movies, in space." The colony attack in the pilot is Pearl Harbor. The captured Chig ship lets them do a Doolittle Raid. 1995 was the 50th anniversary of D-Day, so WWII was very much trending and anniversaries related to the end of the war were a common news item covering ceremonies and memorials. The WWII generation was retired, but largely still around to watch a new TV show with their grand kids. It was just, "WWII movies" plots done through the lens of X-Files writers in the post-Vietnam, post-Gulf war, post-Cold war era of re-evaluation. Morgan and Wong were born in the late 50's / early 60's, so naturally the period they lived through and remember had an influence on how they were riffing on the source material they were drawing inspiration from.
I'm so happy that we're living in a time were we can look back at this show and think of all the problems we've solved with political corruption, police state methods and corporate greed. /s
It reminds of a conversation many years ago with a group of undergrads, all of whom were born around 2000-2002. They didn't understand what I was talking about with all this police state surveillance stuff when it hit me -- "Shit. This has been your entire life. You think this is normal!"
@@feralhistorian I completely agree. It's very sad, especially considering the political narratives and policies that don't work or outright hurt people, but are nonetheless pushed through the corporate media to manufacture our consent. "Just be afraid and buy stuff, you muggle peasant."
The main thing that was wrong with it was out of the producers control. Being on Sunday nights it was always being preempted by NFL games. Would have been better to show it on Saturdays.
Only mistake was it didn't continue long enough. I really wish more shows did this premise an fleshed it out. Humanity shown mission by mission, at war with aliens. Actual planetary an space combat.
Although I don't agree with all your takes on the series your video is still a well articulated breakdown that actually engages with the material and I do appreciate that even despite my own views being different. I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head that some of the great episodes and moments that really tackle the subject matters the series was contending with were boiled down as filler in your video and in my opinion I thought that the way the show built up the ensemble was pretty well done especially for a one season run, like for example how Wang gets an amazing arc that you wouldn't expect when starting the show. Again really do like that people are talking about the Space: Above and Beyond with some more depth even if I don't side with the points made, we covered the series on our podcast and have been interviewing the people involved and it is very much a piece of media that is just yearning for more discussion, examination, breakdowns and acknowledgement of its place in the tapestry of sci-fi TV.
"Now I have to walk all the way down this mountain..." Well, on the bright side, it's probably a way better workout than going to a gym and staring at the pit of total despair and abject horror that is Morning Television while trying to get your heart rate up on a treadmill / elliptical! This show was very cheesy, but it had some great ideas! The CGI special effects will likely not impress anyone today, but at the time they were some of the best seen up to that point. I actually still have a box set of this show on DVD, might give it a look-see later!
@@fix0the0spade Yeah, that's not an excuse for bad writing and trying to cover to many things with the script. You got to keep the audience invested, and if that means scaling back your story telling, then that's what you got to do, otherwise you loose 'em. So, ok, no budget for infantry? Then dont tell the infantry story. No budget for CGI space battles? We want a cheap episode where everyone runs around in the sand! Ok, but pilots wouldn't be risked and damn near everyone knows it. So perhaps two actors can play pilots and everyone else is infantry. I didn't even like it when BSG did it. It's dumb sci fi and sci fi is supposed to be 'smart.'
@@b.thomas8926 Why is it any different from shows like Star Trek? Why is it that the bridge crew that went on away missions instead of marines, a role which actually exists in the setting. Because it's ultimately about characters and story. We're already asked to suspend belief with many other much more fanciful features of sci-fi, why are mixed roles a no-go? As a "problem" it's just not that important.
@@Stubbino An it make sense. If you consider that a ship would have a maximum amount of space, a line or two stating that people will have to serve multiple roles on their vessels because of the lack of space would make sense.
I loved that show, was saddened when it was cancelled. It was only afterwards that I started to engage with my media critically, and haven't really rewatched it since it's cancellation.
Thanks for bringing this series to my attention! I’ve tragically never heard of it before. You quickly became my favorite YT channel over the past week, starting with your forever war video. I recommend you review the book series “Old Man’s War”… or at least the first book. Side note: my last deployment to Afghanistan (before the fall), I finally met a group of lower enlisted that were born post 9/11… so they were fighting in a war that started before they were born… Talk about feeling old.
I've had a couple requests for Old Man's War lately. I'll give it a quick re-read in the next month or two and see if my old impressions still hold up.
@@careypridgeon I remember thinking it was an interesting premise and had some great moments, but as you say it was a little too fixated on the "we're young and green" thing while ignoring a couple other implications that I thought were glaring. I also remember feeling like it lagged severely in the middle. Not bad, but not great. Basically "peak-Scalzi" all around. But still, probably worth discussing in relation to some other things.
Fun fact. Some Russians got convicted of espionage over it. They saw the plane models being brought in and thought it was new secret fighters for the US military.
Hey, you did it! I suggested doing this one a few months back, and damned if you didn't come through! Great video, and I'm pleased you keyed in on many of the same pros and cons of the series I noticed at the time, and in the years since. I was in high school when this aired in its original run, and really wanted it to have the chance to develop and improve, similar to TNG, B5, and other heavy hitters of the time. Instead, it lies mostly forgotten in a heap of on-offs like Earth 2. Also: Ermey's appearance is emblematic of the series itself: it's something familiar and entertaining, yet missing crucial ingredients (in Ermey's case, his peerlessly creative profanity).
I still remember a bit of that "clunky writing" from Ep. 4, "Mutiny". Col. McQueen introduced himself as a member of the "58th Air Commando Group" instead of "58th Squadron".
It was football that ended that show. Thats the yr fox started airing football. the pilot episode was late because we had to wait on the game to end. You didnt know if it was on or not they changed the days and time it aired for football. After all that i was glad they at least had and ending.I still love that show.
I remebr watching this is the uk at 11pm then foe some reason was put on at 3am 😮 really enjoyed the peemice and the Hammerhead fighter has been a favorite ship worthy of high honours such as the Xwing and Viper!
I liked the show a lot. I did find it odd though that colony shot was very much a 20th century rocketship but for the rest of the series the space vessels were sophisticated 'Star Trek' like ships. I know the first episode was a pilot. But it was a large inconsistency.
From what I remember, it was screwed over from the start. In the USA, episodes were shown out of order and at different times. The rumour at the time was Chris Carter of X-Files needed Morgan and Wong back to fix Millennium and X-Files, so he and the execs sabotaged SAAB. It's why the last line of the end credits are what they are and why Millennium season two went the way it did. In the UK, we got the episodes in order and at a consistent time, even if they were shown very late at night. Yes the show's writing had problems but overall it worked. There were many good episodes, Sugar Dirt and Who Monitors the Birds? were among my favourites.
In NZ the episodes were out of order and the episode where hawks is a sniper was so edited it made no sense at all I had to wait until I saw the full episode about 10yrs later
I remember Morgan and Wong wrote the best episodes of X-Files and Carter felt abandoned with SAAB. They even used cast members. I seem to remember M and W were pissed when the show was cancelled.
I loved this show when i was a kid. I remember it being my first introduction to hard space scifi military stuff fighting xeno in space. Which tilll this day i still firmly believe DO NOT SUFFER THE XENOs to live.
Great to see the number of views rising brother. Another excellent video - certainly a good call to focus on old shows that seem to go nowhere but had really good stories. Blake seven in the UK anyone?
And having rewatched/listened to this episode, I'm reminded about how good episode 4 'Mutiny' was where the dilemma of whether or not to sacrifice the invitro passengers in cyro on the damaged spaceship.
@@Alte.Kameraden Maybe, I end up having to go to other mediums to be reminded of this series. Sympathy for the Devil by Kent Anderson maybe has something like the themes they were building to, at least some of them.
I feel you on the MOS side of things but as a Marine I can say I did so many things outside of my MOS under the guise of "for the good of the Corps" that fixing missiles was only my side hustle. While I realize this is not the average or expected experience I was stationed with line units and I had to train with those units so when seats for schools came up I just went. When field assignments came up I went. I signed up to serve and I feel like I have served in every way imaginable. For what ever reason I did not see this show until literally a few months back. it was a show that was tailored for me and I missed it when it came out. I'm a Marine vet and I'm rabid for good sci-fi. I was reading Clark and Azimov at the age of 9 and I had just got out after Desert Storm. This show was for me. What makes it magical for me isn't the story telling, it isn't the arc, it's the characters. These are architypes of people I served with, they really nailed the brotherhood in a way that only The Pacific and Generation Kill ever has and they kind of did it first. The guy they had consulting on this, and I know they had to have someone, he or she had intimate knowledge. Usually it's the uniforms or behaviors that betray the story, none of that existed in this show. I felt like I was watching Marines doing Marine things using Marine mentality and Marine IDK gusto (esprit de corps) for lack of the correct term. I don't know how to explain this to any one that isn't a Marine but, if you know you know, we have a knack of being able to see each other, at our best and at our worst we see each other as Marines. In this show I legitimately felt like I was watching actual Marines. Yeah some of the dialog was cheesy but here's the shocker Marines are super cheesy. Like who says "Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?" well Dan Daly says that during WWI (well before Starship Troopers) and he's like the most Marine the Corps has ever seen. The show was ahead of it's time and some how too late for today but it's an absolute gem and I for one want to know more but only if they remain true to the Corps. And just to put a cherry on top of your commentary and also connect up how connected this show is with the Marine Corps go have a look at Smedley D. Butler and maybe his book. The idea of an Industrial War Complex goes back much further than you may currently imagine. Semper Fi
@@feralhistorian It's one of the things I truly admire about Butler and many other great Marines I look up to, they never pull their punches and just give it to you straight. It's a SNAFU boys, let's get to work. Semper Fi Marine!
I remember loving this when it was first broadcast. I feel the connection I make with it and The Forever War puts it up on a pedestal it doesn’t deserve. Only one way to find out!
Another area where they fail is on the international front. At first, it was supposed to be the whole Earth fighting the aliens... however, as the show progressed, it became clear it was just another "USA vs the Universe". I can understand the budget constrain but just a few lines of dialogue here and there, mentioning how other nations were contributing to the war effort or operation; would have been enough to cover that point.
Thanks for reviewing the show. I do disagree with much of your issues. But glad to see it get some love. (I have to point out that three strong theme in the series that you did not put enough in the review you did was the focuses on loyalty, morality and Racism. I will not go into that much most but just so it is said.) The story is meant to be of Pilots and that it is and so that is the MOS Marine Interface Pilot. The main ship seems to only be able to have so many people on her long term and that being the case cross training to get the most out of who you have makes sense (and considering the tanks and AIs both are not trusted even more so). I don’t believe making it more complicated was a better way to go with to much rl military. So it goes with the Battlestar system of four main MOS with specialties is likely the max most normal viewers could handle. The story is of the squadron and not the war. I know it is temping to see it otherwise but the war in general and the forces at work behind both sides are veiled and mysterious because they only work as complications for the squad. This story telling is squad as family or a “band of brothers”ideal. The few times we move off the squad typically is to the command crew showing the larger tactical concerns just a bit up to maintain awareness of the world around our core group. Of note - The Angeist Angel may be one of the most consequential of episodes. The enemy fighter is a R&D test but also it is more. The enemy is learning and pulling ahead. The tech expectations used was known by both sides so almost certainly it was the reason a lot of the conflict is happening. Also, we see what the fate of a successful tank is and how that affects the man. We learn about what lengths McQueen will go though to achieve his goals. The Ace pilot is not really the point, he is a complication. The sand that is there to make the clam give the pearl. And it also is one of the soft racism parts of the stores that was a constant part of the show. As you can tell I liked it a lot more then you did as I accepted it on it’s own terms and resisted the idea it was just about the last war (there are elements one can relate to WWII as well). In many ways it is a bit to early for it’s own good.
I remember as a kid loving that show and would watch it religiously. One time a dutch frigate, the Witte de With i think, came to port and my dad took my brother and i on it and some of the sailors were watching bootleg VHS tapes of it in the ships Bar.
I could see the problems of this show even when it first aired in the 90s, but also the potential. I reckon it was a concept that was ahead of it's time, either that or go for a clear limited run like the original V.
“Who monitors the birds” was my favorite episode. I delt with alotta bullshit from the anti gun/anti military/anti American, school system growing up as a kid. Especially when being different and become to smart for my own good. So yeah, that episode was pretty relatable towards me. Plus, there was almost no dialogue so it’s almost like a universal language.
yes! I was a fan. fun guilty pleasure show. it was canceled after its first season. retooled and went to UPN for a season. canceled again. retooled again and went to the USA network for another two seasons. I guess it was doing ok but the Viper manufacturers got tired of giving them so many cars and decided to call it quits so they had to cancel the show lol I found a bootleg dvd of the series online a while back and got it so I could watch here and there.
Couldn't agree with you more. I loved the show at the time, and was sad it didn't get another season to really get it's footing, but that's how it was with Fox - they had some cool innovative new shows and if they weren't an instant hit they would can them immediately. I agree that I never understood how this same group of people would be used as fighter pilots, then infantry, then transport pilots... Made no sense at all. I LOVED the command staff though. They were honorable, realistic, salty warriors. The various subplots (the AI's, invitros, the interplay between Hawks and Nathan because of their backgrounds.... ) all made for interesting dynamics and potential for good stories. Wish somebody would reboot this!
24 and X-files were both going to be cancelled until BBC essentially made them huge hits in the UK and demanded more, an X-Files did a tour of scifi conventions to convince Fox for more eps. Shame some of their other shows didn't get that treatment.
His MOS is Space Aviator Cavalry. Much like how Cavalry are infantry that can fight mounted or dismounted from a horse or vehicle, space aviator cavalry are infantry that can fight mounted or dismounted from an aerospace capable attack ship. When it costs of lot to send someone in to space then across the galaxy it might begin to make sense to have someone who can do multiple things. When today we can see that computers have made it so any grunt can be a drone operator with just a PlayStation controller it might not be far fetched to think that might someday make it so any grunt can become an attack jet pilot; the computer does all the hard work the warm body is just there to pull the trigger because of light-speed lag from trying to talk to the command ship. That S:AAB shows the military of the near future is different and not a carbon copy of today is a good thing.
Cavalry are Cavalry, Dragoons and Light Horse are mounted infantry. Using trained fighter pilots as grunts is like taking a thoroughbred and grinding it up to feed dogs.
@@zedfan4598Depends on what it takes to train a fighter pilot. Today they have drones that can be flown by a grunt with a PlayStation controller, 30 years ago that would have been unfathomable. Also in the US context cavalry fought like dragoons. In the modern context cavalry are infantry mounted on APCs or IFV that can fight mounted or dismounted as needed.
@@williammagoffin9324 Partially wrong. The Cavalry UNIT does that. The actual soldiers have different MOS. The ones that fight on the ground as actual infantry have one MOS. The drivers and weapon operators have another. The drones flown by a PS controller are small and are assigned to a particular MOS. They’re basically expensive RC planes. The BIG drones, equivalent to a starfighter, require most of the qualifications for a regular pilot if not all of them. Those are all VERY different skill sets. It might be a good idea to have individual personnel be cross-trained on some weapons systems (but definitely not all of them to the point they’re all interchangeable; no one does that), but what you’re suggesting is ridiculous.
I really wanted this to get another season, too. Though not with Nathan, that guy's voice made Michael Jackson sound butch. I get why every cast member went on every mission, one way that could have worked would be with cybernetic 'skill wires' from cyberpunk stories that were near contemporaneous. That way you could have them 'slotting' their loadout for each mission. It wouldn't have taken much screen time to explain and it would paper over one problem the show had.
Call for the doctor, call for the nurse; call for the lady with the alligator purse! *Barney Fife. Always comes to mind, gives me a chuckle during hospital stays.
2:00 sounds familiar! Now that I think of it, a lot of this bs sounds familiar. The only difference being that the show’s sympathies seem to lie with those we are now supposed to see as villains. Odd that.
My friends all loved this, and I was the one pointing out that it was a waste to spend a few million bucks training a fighter pilot, to then make him a rifleman. I think this is the first time I realized that the WWII generation was no longer making the products in Hollyweird, and the Vietnam veterans weren’t going to pick up the slack, so things were just going to get dumber. Like when I was talking to my students about WWII and told them that when a human is hit by a bullet, they fall down instead of flying across the room. But the tv shows…. Yeah, but I was an infantryman and I was in the war. I saw. Some still argued, because they knew fictional television had to be right. Sigh.
You Sir, missed the point. It being dumb was the whole point. They were losing the war and the higher ups did not care. They were plugging holes with diamonds.
@@AdamMPick Then I commend to you Baa Baa Black Sheep AKA Black Sheep Squadron, in which you will see that done more effectively. Or they could have done the traditional route of showing women, children and old men being incorporated into combat units with token training. When this sort of thing was actually done, notably Bataan, they actually used the ground crews, not the flight personnel, who were still too valuable to waste. See again comments about the ignorance in Hollyweird.
It had a good adolescence coming of age while in service of the Marine Corps theme. The lost young idealists losing their moral compass when exposed to harsh realities of truth war and politics. The corps solidifying a new moral compass heading in the corps values (love for the team above oneself and selfishness, sacrifice, honor, integrity). This was and is an important part of military attraction - service in name of the service, not the cause or war. Eventually many soldiers see the real enemy is the war itself not necessarily the opposing individuals who may share a similar local bond. As per the title it is the service of peers above and beyond what binds us and attracts us as a species (living in small human groups that depend on each other). There were routinely great and memorable lines and commentaries in the show - the monologue about making peace with ones maker prior to killing Chiggy Von Richthofen was one.
Just discovered this gem of a channel. I'm a massive Sci-fi geek. Started off reading Welles' The War of the Worlds as a kid (Love your video on that). Read a lot of the great authors from the 50's/60's, Campbell, Asimov, Clarke to name a few. Keep up the amazing work my friend.
Excellent video and helped me process a loss from all those years ago. It could have been better, as suggested with cool ideas! The series came out of the gate really strong in the first season and I watch those episodes all the time...the series will forever play in my head and would have loved to see any further seasons or story development. Ahead of it's time. Thanks!
I watched the show when it first aired while I was serving with the Marines. At the time I was always confused why pilots were sometimes operating as an infantry squad (filled with only officers). I love military sci-fi, but they didn't know how to do the military part on this show.
Take the fix suggested in the video one more step forward. The story is about a space going version of an Marine Expeditionary Unit. That gives you the context for these people knowing each other and working together even when they are not all pilots.
I remember catching this when it was on air on Fox for the mid-1990s. A lot of shows died quickly on that network. I remember this was one of many shows that had aired on the bad Friday evening time slots. X-Files was always on and succeed in the Friday 9pm time slot where TV shows died. But before X-Files aired on Friday nights, there was a constant cycle of shows going through the 8pm slot before. Brisco County Jr, Sliders, and Space: Above and Beyond were among them. These shows died quickly. I was not fond of how this show ended, it pissed me off. However, I still did buy the DVD collection that released in the mid-2000s. I recall one night a coworker and I talked about this show. He had fond memories of it but my enthusiasm dropped after I had seen the show again on DVD. He didn't see most of the series like I had. I let him borrow the set and when he was done, he agreed. It got a lot worse towards the end. It would be interesting if this show was rebooted today, to see how history the last few decades would shape show events. There's also been a number of sci-fi shows on for some years now, a small resurgence. Star Trek has been back on TV for years now. The Expanse. Etc.
As a teen I kinda liked that they were fighter pilots, but also ground soldiers. ‘In the future, we have progressed to doing military this way, and besides, these are expeditionary space marines who have to be able to do everything’ is a way to summarise it for me.
I remember this series when it aired over the air on FOX, who (in their infinite wisdom) scheduled it after College Football. The 'world premier' episode was clobbered, when the football game went overtime, and the station finally got to it 'in progress' cutting the first 1/2 hour. Later I purchased to entire set on DVD, sadly only in 'full frame' which is Edison's 4:3 format!
I keep coming back to generation kill. How that was filmed. You got the sense even with a limited central cast that the war was huge. Space only had a handful of characters and extras, you got the sense that the Saratoga was a functional navy ship but that was about it. If it were to get a reboot we know more now about how to frame the show and do more with less.
I loved this show…I was only a few years into my almost 27 years with the military and our squad got together to watch each episode in the barracks. Was our times “firefly” but in a much smaller scale. I’ve even looked for fan fiction but with no luck. Would love to see a reboot!
I remember staying up very late to watch this. I never got to see most of the episodes. Those I did see were absolutely gripping. The writing was a bit wobbly but nowhere near as iffy as ( redacted - I'm not starting a war, here). Given the people weren't skilled at acting on green-screen sets ( who was?) they did an okay job. Now, if someone was crazy enough to reboot the series like they did with Battlestar Galactica, I'm so very in!
Your idea is very much like mine, in having different characters in different roles. I thought of it as a sci-fi version of Third Watch. That great series was split between the police, fire fighters, and ambulance crews
I remember this show fondly despite it's often clunky writing. As a teenager I loved that it was doing things other TV scifi shows weren't....or at least it was trying to.
4:00 "We have faster than light space craft, but otherwise, current tech." Yep, so many sci-fi shows could be written on that premises, and they'd be fun to watch. Hollywood would only touch it to make it lame. We're going to have to go back to radio (podcast) entertainment.
Honestly I feel like this was one of those shows that if it had been made later like mid 2000s instead of in 1995 it would've been a pretty good show and actually gone somewhere.
I absolutely love the conccept of this short lived series. What I did not like was the main characters doing everything. As a marine we were given specific jobs, some of which take years to complete or master. You are 100% correct about everything in your summarization. I would love to see them remake this series but with more focused characters. Great video.
I watched this series when it first aired (yes I’m that old😂) and it was incredible. I do remember thinking at the time it was kind of weird that highly trained pilots would double as infantry. The strangest moment that killed the immersion for me was a weapon system they used once. In the scene a hammerhead attacks a chig satellite station when a chig fighter launches from the station to defend it. The hammerhead launches a missile that fires bolts or shells from around its side. The bolts shoot past the chig fighter and blow up the station and then then body of the missile blows up the fighter. It was so ridiculously contrived that what little I remember of the show, that scene has always stuck. But that was pretty emblematic of the show. It swung back and forth from being utterly ridiculous and unbelievable to absolutely amazing. Like when the prototype “chiggy Von Richthofen” was revealed and the words “abandon all hope” are scrawled along its side. I guess that was ultimately the shows downfall, much like the pilots acting as infantry, it was trying to be everything all at once.
Enjoyed this with my dad and it was right around the time I enlisted. It was nice seeing R L Ermey reprise his role from Full Metal Jacket. Story was decent and the actors gave it there all I felt. Some better than others. At the time was bummed it didn’t get a few more seasons. The space stuff was interesting and compelling.
I think you make good points, what got me in most critiques later was exactly the point you raised about pilots doing grunt work etc. When I originally watched this, that partciular issue sailed right by me as I wasn't aware of the armed forces structures and that probably goes for a lot of people at the time. I always kind of looked on this show like 'Tour of Duty' which aired very late in the UK in space settings.
The logic I use to fix this, is that these space vessels had just enough space for a few pilots and the ship crew and barely enough of either. So everyone had to be be multi roles to keep the whole shabbang running. So pilots had to be marines, marines had to be pilot and occassionally scrub the decks and clean the bogs. Plus they also had just had a AI war, they were wary of using AI in their ships.
A memorable SciFi series with some almost prophetic insights into our future. One episode stands out to me in this regard. The one where the alien was captured but then blew itself up... it set the aliens apart from humans who at that time would likey not conduct a suicide mission. Of course, that changed dramatically on 9/11 2001, just 4 years after the series aired. After that suicide terrorists became common. We will never know what else this SciFi series might have prophesied if it had been allowed to go to the planned 5 series. In my opinion, too many great SciFi series are cancelled due to low ratings because some story arcs and characters need time to gather followers. Annoyingly some are cancelled without being able to reach a logical ending... like reading a book where someone has torn out the last page.
I watched one or two episodes of this at the time, when it must be remembered sci fi options were scarce and production values were low. I must have picked the one good one because when I went back years later to check it out I couldn't believe how completely awful it was. I agree that having some, or indeed any, correspondence to actual military people doing military stuff would have helped.
You are correct, so much wasted potential. Fighter pilots one week and then Infantry the next. They should have had a bigger cast or as you stated separated the types of duties the principles played and they could have used semi-regulars to fill in for the rest of the pilots, infantry, support etc. Your talk at the end - about the 90's and a sense of loss before the 'War on Terror' reminds me of a Fight Club scene - Tyler Durden's speech about "We had no great war; we had no great depression." That and the buildings blowing up are probably the reason's that movie will not be remade anytime soon. Good video.
It seemed to me there was a flaw in the logic of the show. The colonizing mission Nathan and Kyla were a part of took years of preparation and wouldn't see a follow up mission for several more years, and yet somehow the military was easily capable of operating a huge fleet deep into interstellar space. Even so I liked the show a lot, and I agree it does have some things in common with the Battlestar Galactica reboot of the 2000s. Shane Vansen seems like the prototype for Kara Thrace. One other thing I remember about the show is that Bill Clinton mentioned the show by name, citing it as an example of the violent programming seen on TV
This is one of the few shows I wish someone would reboot. Whatever network wouldn't have to "modernize" it just give it a new chance at life.
I kinda agree, but I would be afraid Hollywood would F it up …
I could see that. They have a tendency to hose any deeper meaning and good storytelling to try to make everything a tentpole blockbuster.
I mostly blame the fact that they operate on this weird parasitic relationship with public opinion.
They know what it is...kinda....and then crank out the most shallow, insincere and money grabbing characture [sp?] of it.
There's plenty of examples, but the first to mind would be Ripley vs Rey.
Ripley is a random pilot, who rises to the moment and becomes a badass due to a nightmare ordeal.
Rey has a much less inspiring arc which I mostly put at the feet of the writers/suits.
Her story could have been great, but bad writing ruined it.
"Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future"!
@@blackc1479 Exactly... See what they did w/ Starship Troopers.
@@charleslennonbaker check your power points
One of the best sci-fi TV series almost no-one has ever seen.
Shuffle up the Wild Cards, and deal 'em.
just dont serve pancakes
Yeah, Liked that Show, watched it at the time, and watched it all again later online...
Abandon all hope, my ass.
It was moved around so many times it was hard to catch it
Almost no-one has ever seen apart from the multitudes of people who did see it and remember it well 😂😂😂😂😂
The thing I thought didn't make sense was more basic. The colony ship in the first episode is like something from a next-generation Apollo program, and the crew are highly trained astronauts and scientists ready to head out on a one way trip to the unknown. But as soon as they go missing it turns out Earth has space super-carriers with artificial gravity and everything. It's like having Captain Cook disappear and the WW2 US navy suddenly appearing to go out after him.
I'd unknowingly overlooked that ... thanks for bringing it up ... 🤨
I have not seen this show since it was on TV in the 90s. I remember this too. In the first episode couldn't they already fly at light speed or something. It was called the Battle of the Belt. What was special about where the USS Saratoga was? I thought it intercepted the incoming point of the Chigs. In the second episode the USS Saratoga flies to the planet where the rocket went missing. The writing was a little uneven.
Space: Above and Beyond has really big "are we the baddies" energy.
When you put FTL and artificial gravity appearing out of nowhere alongside mass human cloning being rolled out to fight small cells of robot terrorists it starts to look like a universe where an X-files style "Shadow Government" is completely real and has over a century's worth of suppressed technology that it's doling out a spoonful at a time in order to stay in power, manipulate public opinion, and *prevent* an age of exploration and diaspora at any cost.
Angriest Angel was an incredible story.
Chiggy-von-richtovon
Totally Agree!
And what many people didn't know is that this show NAILED the feeling and Esprit De Corps of the actual Marine Corps. I loved this show! Semper Fidelis!
Hell YES! I still rock an Angry Angles patch as my wallpaper every now and then.
Oh and props to “Who monitors the birds” too.
@@LarryD that episode is fantastic as it puts the viewers in the shoes of Hawkes and lets you feel vicariously through him.
As a six grader I LOVEd THIS SHOW. As a sigh, 40 year I still do warts and all. Thanks.
By next year I should have an AI that can make me a second season.
@jtjames79 I am newish writer hire me instead
Seems like the writers took the slogan "Every Marine a Rifleman" a little bit too literally.
This.
Every Marine is a rifleman first ( or infantryman ) first,their MOS second.And they're very proud of this too.I served with the Marines on my first deployment to go fight( I was in an infantry unit ) In Iraq at Camp TQ. The kind of military this guy is talking about is the army,they operate that way ( I did 7 yrs in the army-LOL ) I did 4 deployments to Iraq with the Texas Guard ( I volunteered for all 4 tours,also did 2 tours back-to-back ) served in infantry units for 3 of those 4 tours. SEMPER-FI
@@user-be7tc2bd6e Okay, but _in practice_ how many Marine fighter pilots did you see being pulled out of the cockpit to serve as enlisted infantry? Because this show literally had the pilots of a Marine fighter squadron (all officers, mind you!) spend their downtime in between conducting flight ops grabbing rifles and acting as an infantry squad.
@@Philistine47 Having the marines be space pilots was a cost saving measure,you don't have to hire extra actors to be pilots. This saved lots of money for the production of the show.
There is a SMALL rational for this with the idea that pushing relatively combat forces very far out into space means they have to be more jack-of-all-trades than real units. (see Colonial Marines in Aliens for this also)
I would argue that Fox's scheduling shenanigans played more of a role in the show getting cancelled after a single season rather than the writing. It aired on Sunday nights at nine...except most nights it would get delayed by two or three hours as they also picked up the NFL that year and it would often run over.
They would also shuffle and skip episodes as they went along. Same thing that they did with Firefly just constantly screwing with things with showing it.
The rumour for cancellation at the time was that Rupert Murdoch wanted to move production of S:AB to the newly created Fox Studios in Sydney (Australia) for tax breaks and and cheaper production costs, but none of the main cast wanted to move across the planet and that's what killed it.
I remember they would join the program already in progress; in other words you might get to see the last ten minutes of an episode.
i dont think fox ever really nailed sci-fi. they like to make shows, even good shows (firefly), and kill them after one season. streaming seems to do the same thing. so i dont even start watching shows until they have had 2 or 3 seasons.
It was definitely bungled by Fox scheduling. They kept pre-empting it on Sundays, and then they moved it to a weeknight opposite some of the biggest shows of the time. My roommates and I avidly watched this...even with all the rescheduling and shifting schedules.
Some other analyses pointed out that, while the mid-90s was a relatively optimistic era, S:AAB had a very cynical take on governments and corporations...a take that fit, as explained here, in the immediate post-Vietnam era, or would fit well today, but that contrasted starkly with most of what was filling the airwaves at the time.
Given the fact that the writers were the same team that steered The X-Files through several of the show's most successful and memorable seasons, I have no doubt that they had a vision for where the story would go...but it became rapidly apparent that Fox was not going to give S:AAB the same kind of support that it gave X-Files...and I feel like they kind of stopped worrying about developing the throughline about a third of the way through the single season it ran. There was still plenty of over-arching plot exposition...but the stories became increasingly episodic and disconnected, and many of them could have been about almost any Marine unit in the war and they would have worked almost as well.
As far as the question about their MOS...never really bothered me too much. I just shrugged it off as the USMC diversifying the capabilities of their aviation units, either as a cost-cutting measure or because space-aviation could involve squadrons winding up in potentially diverse environments with minimal support. Don't forget, at the point where the whole story started, Marines were slated to deploy as security forces for planetary colonies. That was the whole reason Nathan enlisted. Wouldn't be very economical to have to set up a base with facilities for aviation, infantry, and armor units...more economical to cross-train units to be able to do a little of everything--especially since, at the time, there weren't any major threats to counter, and most colonial security forces were basically the political version of a child's security blanket...they were there so the colonists could sleep more soundly at night, knowing that it was someone else's problem if something went wrong. The only threats they knew of were possibly pirate traffic, or Silicates, and they had no reason to think the Silicates (or pirates) would be a major threat, as they'd only have whatever resources they'd been able to scrounge or salvage. The Wild Cards were well into their flight training when the Chigs made their presence known, and there suddenly became a need for specialized unit training again.
You forgot the Gulf War which was 4 years earlier. This is one episode that is overtly Vietnam, but the show also drew on aspects of the Gulf War like Gulf War syndrome. This was a good show, probably the best of the second tier shows (X-files, Star Trek, and B5 being the big hitters), and didn't deserve cancellation but the '90s was a strange period where a lot of good shows got cancelled and a lot of bad shows got multiple seasons.
" Wings " tv show about a pair of brothers working as pilots in a small county airport. Mostly comedy drama, my peer group liked to pretend this is what life was like for non-military station personal earning blue color jobs.
Morgan and WOng both worked on Xfiles earlier. They latter did American Horror story.
I think this was less polished with Xfile, because they didn't have the same people backing them.
Also, the Bosnian War just ended. I got a distinct Balkan war feeling from some episodes. Earth literally just went trough a civil war, like the Balkans and the stories about the pilots having to survive behind enemy lines, had big Capt. Scott F. O'Grady feels to it. You had work camps, ethnic clensing and the military feeling powerless despite all the tech they had, while back door politics mudded the waters at all times.
The show was, first and foremost, "WWII movies, in space." The colony attack in the pilot is Pearl Harbor. The captured Chig ship lets them do a Doolittle Raid. 1995 was the 50th anniversary of D-Day, so WWII was very much trending and anniversaries related to the end of the war were a common news item covering ceremonies and memorials. The WWII generation was retired, but largely still around to watch a new TV show with their grand kids.
It was just, "WWII movies" plots done through the lens of X-Files writers in the post-Vietnam, post-Gulf war, post-Cold war era of re-evaluation. Morgan and Wong were born in the late 50's / early 60's, so naturally the period they lived through and remember had an influence on how they were riffing on the source material they were drawing inspiration from.
Hollywood never seems to change.
i loved that show. Here in germany it was called "Space2063". Glad you talk about it - this gem deserves more attention
Ich habe die Serie auch geliebt! Sie kam recht spät, auf Pro7 glaube ich und ich musste danach immer direkt ins Bett. 😁
I'm so happy that we're living in a time were we can look back at this show and think of all the problems we've solved with political corruption, police state methods and corporate greed.
/s
It reminds of a conversation many years ago with a group of undergrads, all of whom were born around 2000-2002. They didn't understand what I was talking about with all this police state surveillance stuff when it hit me -- "Shit. This has been your entire life. You think this is normal!"
@@feralhistorian Media political catch phase the past few years, " The New Normal."
Do I detect a bit of cynicism? 👍
@@feralhistorian I completely agree.
It's very sad, especially considering the political narratives and policies that don't work or outright hurt people, but are nonetheless pushed through the corporate media to manufacture our consent.
"Just be afraid and buy stuff, you muggle peasant."
@@feralhistorian Thanks for an amazing video, as always!
The main thing that was wrong with it was out of the producers control. Being on Sunday nights it was always being preempted by NFL games. Would have been better to show it on Saturdays.
I remember Seaquest having a similar problem. NBC was constantly cancelling it to show basketball or something else more profitable.
Only mistake was it didn't continue long enough. I really wish more shows did this premise an fleshed it out. Humanity shown mission by mission, at war with aliens. Actual planetary an space combat.
Although I don't agree with all your takes on the series your video is still a well articulated breakdown that actually engages with the material and I do appreciate that even despite my own views being different. I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head that some of the great episodes and moments that really tackle the subject matters the series was contending with were boiled down as filler in your video and in my opinion I thought that the way the show built up the ensemble was pretty well done especially for a one season run, like for example how Wang gets an amazing arc that you wouldn't expect when starting the show. Again really do like that people are talking about the Space: Above and Beyond with some more depth even if I don't side with the points made, we covered the series on our podcast and have been interviewing the people involved and it is very much a piece of media that is just yearning for more discussion, examination, breakdowns and acknowledgement of its place in the tapestry of sci-fi TV.
"Now I have to walk all the way down this mountain..." Well, on the bright side, it's probably a way better workout than going to a gym and staring at the pit of total despair and abject horror that is Morning Television while trying to get your heart rate up on a treadmill / elliptical! This show was very cheesy, but it had some great ideas! The CGI special effects will likely not impress anyone today, but at the time they were some of the best seen up to that point. I actually still have a box set of this show on DVD, might give it a look-see later!
This was a great show. I loved it til the day it was cancelled.
Considering the time and costs of training a pilot (years plus millions in tech), I always wondered why TV shows had pilots fight on the ground.
We have budget for X number of actors with speaking roles, no you can't hire 20 more to play the infantry for half the episodes.
@@fix0the0spade Yeah, that's not an excuse for bad writing and trying to cover to many things with the script. You got to keep the audience invested, and if that means scaling back your story telling, then that's what you got to do, otherwise you loose 'em. So, ok, no budget for infantry? Then dont tell the infantry story. No budget for CGI space battles? We want a cheap episode where everyone runs around in the sand! Ok, but pilots wouldn't be risked and damn near everyone knows it. So perhaps two actors can play pilots and everyone else is infantry. I didn't even like it when BSG did it. It's dumb sci fi and sci fi is supposed to be 'smart.'
@@b.thomas8926 Why is it any different from shows like Star Trek? Why is it that the bridge crew that went on away missions instead of marines, a role which actually exists in the setting. Because it's ultimately about characters and story. We're already asked to suspend belief with many other much more fanciful features of sci-fi, why are mixed roles a no-go? As a "problem" it's just not that important.
@@Stubbino An it make sense. If you consider that a ship would have a maximum amount of space, a line or two stating that people will have to serve multiple roles on their vessels because of the lack of space would make sense.
@@DavidKnowles0that episode exists. "Level of Necessity".
I loved that show, was saddened when it was cancelled. It was only afterwards that I started to engage with my media critically, and haven't really rewatched it since it's cancellation.
Thanks for bringing this series to my attention! I’ve tragically never heard of it before. You quickly became my favorite YT channel over the past week, starting with your forever war video.
I recommend you review the book series “Old Man’s War”… or at least the first book.
Side note: my last deployment to Afghanistan (before the fall), I finally met a group of lower enlisted that were born post 9/11… so they were fighting in a war that started before they were born… Talk about feeling old.
I've had a couple requests for Old Man's War lately. I'll give it a quick re-read in the next month or two and see if my old impressions still hold up.
@@careypridgeon I remember thinking it was an interesting premise and had some great moments, but as you say it was a little too fixated on the "we're young and green" thing while ignoring a couple other implications that I thought were glaring.
I also remember feeling like it lagged severely in the middle. Not bad, but not great. Basically "peak-Scalzi" all around.
But still, probably worth discussing in relation to some other things.
I thought of the "Wild Cards" as a flying branch of a "Starship Troopers" world.
I dug on the hammerhead fighters. I also remember the Vietnam era.
Fun fact. Some Russians got convicted of espionage over it. They saw the plane models being brought in and thought it was new secret fighters for the US military.
"Now I have to walk back down this mountain" feels like a metaphor for something.
What really screwed this series up was the same thing that screwed up a number of other great sci-fi series: FOX's ham-handed scheduling f***ups.
Hey, you did it! I suggested doing this one a few months back, and damned if you didn't come through! Great video, and I'm pleased you keyed in on many of the same pros and cons of the series I noticed at the time, and in the years since.
I was in high school when this aired in its original run, and really wanted it to have the chance to develop and improve, similar to TNG, B5, and other heavy hitters of the time.
Instead, it lies mostly forgotten in a heap of on-offs like Earth 2.
Also: Ermey's appearance is emblematic of the series itself: it's something familiar and entertaining, yet missing crucial ingredients (in Ermey's case, his peerlessly creative profanity).
There was great potential with this one but yeah, not quite there. I still enjoyed re-watching it, but it could have been so much more.
I still remember a bit of that "clunky writing" from Ep. 4, "Mutiny". Col. McQueen introduced himself as a member of the "58th Air Commando Group" instead of "58th Squadron".
It was football that ended that show. Thats the yr fox started airing football. the pilot episode was late because we had to wait on the game to end. You didnt know if it was on or not they changed the days and time it aired for football. After all that i was glad they at least had and ending.I still love that show.
I remebr watching this is the uk at 11pm then foe some reason was put on at 3am 😮 really enjoyed the peemice and the Hammerhead fighter has been a favorite ship worthy of high honours such as the Xwing and Viper!
Blame Fox. Showkiller.
I liked the show a lot. I did find it odd though that colony shot was very much a 20th century rocketship but for the rest of the series the space vessels were sophisticated 'Star Trek' like ships. I know the first episode was a pilot. But it was a large inconsistency.
There massive inconsistency with universe construction. That common for a lot of science fiction.
@@DavidKnowles0 Yes. But that really jumps out for me.
My nostalgia is activated, my good sir. Glad to see this one being reviewed, another of my favorites as a kid.
From what I remember, it was screwed over from the start. In the USA, episodes were shown out of order and at different times. The rumour at the time was Chris Carter of X-Files needed Morgan and Wong back to fix Millennium and X-Files, so he and the execs sabotaged SAAB. It's why the last line of the end credits are what they are and why Millennium season two went the way it did.
In the UK, we got the episodes in order and at a consistent time, even if they were shown very late at night.
Yes the show's writing had problems but overall it worked. There were many good episodes, Sugar Dirt and Who Monitors the Birds? were among my favourites.
In NZ the episodes were out of order and the episode where hawks is a sniper was so edited it made no sense at all I had to wait until I saw the full episode about 10yrs later
@@beneagleson3026 That would have been brutal.
I remember Morgan and Wong wrote the best episodes of X-Files and Carter felt abandoned with SAAB. They even used cast members. I seem to remember M and W were pissed when the show was cancelled.
I loved this show when i was a kid. I remember it being my first introduction to hard space scifi military stuff fighting xeno in space. Which tilll this day i still firmly believe DO NOT SUFFER THE XENOs to live.
I watched this show when I was like 14/15. At that time, Poland in mid 90's this show was absolutley amazing.
Great to see the number of views rising brother. Another excellent video - certainly a good call to focus on old shows that seem to go nowhere but had really good stories. Blake seven in the UK anyone?
And having rewatched/listened to this episode, I'm reminded about how good episode 4 'Mutiny' was where the dilemma of whether or not to sacrifice the invitro passengers in cyro on the damaged spaceship.
There were some really good moments in that show. It's certainly one of the "almost great" series of its era.
I loved R. Lee Ermey in this show. It was like a PG version of Gunnery Sgt. Hartmann.
Note before quote, this is in some very particular ways a favorite series of mine
Closest shows to this in my opinion are Battlestar Galactica reboot, SDF Macross and Mobile Suit Gundam 0083.
@@Alte.Kameraden Maybe, I end up having to go to other mediums to be reminded of this series. Sympathy for the Devil by Kent Anderson maybe has something like the themes they were building to, at least some of them.
I feel you on the MOS side of things but as a Marine I can say I did so many things outside of my MOS under the guise of "for the good of the Corps" that fixing missiles was only my side hustle. While I realize this is not the average or expected experience I was stationed with line units and I had to train with those units so when seats for schools came up I just went. When field assignments came up I went. I signed up to serve and I feel like I have served in every way imaginable.
For what ever reason I did not see this show until literally a few months back. it was a show that was tailored for me and I missed it when it came out. I'm a Marine vet and I'm rabid for good sci-fi. I was reading Clark and Azimov at the age of 9 and I had just got out after Desert Storm. This show was for me.
What makes it magical for me isn't the story telling, it isn't the arc, it's the characters. These are architypes of people I served with, they really nailed the brotherhood in a way that only The Pacific and Generation Kill ever has and they kind of did it first. The guy they had consulting on this, and I know they had to have someone, he or she had intimate knowledge.
Usually it's the uniforms or behaviors that betray the story, none of that existed in this show. I felt like I was watching Marines doing Marine things using Marine mentality and Marine IDK gusto (esprit de corps) for lack of the correct term.
I don't know how to explain this to any one that isn't a Marine but, if you know you know, we have a knack of being able to see each other, at our best and at our worst we see each other as Marines. In this show I legitimately felt like I was watching actual Marines. Yeah some of the dialog was cheesy but here's the shocker Marines are super cheesy. Like who says "Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?" well Dan Daly says that during WWI (well before Starship Troopers) and he's like the most Marine the Corps has ever seen.
The show was ahead of it's time and some how too late for today but it's an absolute gem and I for one want to know more but only if they remain true to the Corps.
And just to put a cherry on top of your commentary and also connect up how connected this show is with the Marine Corps go have a look at Smedley D. Butler and maybe his book. The idea of an Industrial War Complex goes back much further than you may currently imagine.
Semper Fi
I have been known to hand people copies of "War is Racket" while they're in mid-sentence. Did at a wedding reception once.
Semper Gumby, Marine.
@@feralhistorian It's one of the things I truly admire about Butler and many other great Marines I look up to, they never pull their punches and just give it to you straight. It's a SNAFU boys, let's get to work.
Semper Fi Marine!
I remember loving this when it was first broadcast. I feel the connection I make with it and The Forever War puts it up on a pedestal it doesn’t deserve.
Only one way to find out!
Another area where they fail is on the international front. At first, it was supposed to be the whole Earth fighting the aliens... however, as the show progressed, it became clear it was just another "USA vs the Universe". I can understand the budget constrain but just a few lines of dialogue here and there, mentioning how other nations were contributing to the war effort or operation; would have been enough to cover that point.
There was an episode where they encounter an Australian tanker guy.
And there was another episode where the flew with another fighter squadron from India. It was a very brief scene.
A few names, an a few flags on the uniforms and ships with the prefixes HMS and FS or INS
Babe wake up. That handsome Peter Weller clone has found purpose in reviewing bootleg Starship Troopers TV shows.
Thanks for reviewing the show. I do disagree with much of your issues. But glad to see it get some love.
(I have to point out that three strong theme in the series that you did not put enough in the review you did was the focuses on loyalty, morality and Racism. I will not go into that much most but just so it is said.)
The story is meant to be of Pilots and that it is and so that is the MOS Marine Interface Pilot. The main ship seems to only be able to have so many people on her long term and that being the case cross training to get the most out of who you have makes sense (and considering the tanks and AIs both are not trusted even more so). I don’t believe making it more complicated was a better way to go with to much rl military. So it goes with the Battlestar system of four main MOS with specialties is likely the max most normal viewers could handle.
The story is of the squadron and not the war. I know it is temping to see it otherwise but the war in general and the forces at work behind both sides are veiled and mysterious because they only work as complications for the squad. This story telling is squad as family or a “band of brothers”ideal. The few times we move off the squad typically is to the command crew showing the larger tactical concerns just a bit up to maintain awareness of the world around our core group.
Of note - The Angeist Angel may be one of the most consequential of episodes. The enemy fighter is a R&D test but also it is more. The enemy is learning and pulling ahead. The tech expectations used was known by both sides so almost certainly it was the reason a lot of the conflict is happening. Also, we see what the fate of a successful tank is and how that affects the man. We learn about what lengths McQueen will go though to achieve his goals. The Ace pilot is not really the point, he is a complication. The sand that is there to make the clam give the pearl. And it also is one of the soft racism parts of the stores that was a constant part of the show.
As you can tell I liked it a lot more then you did as I accepted it on it’s own terms and resisted the idea it was just about the last war (there are elements one can relate to WWII as well). In many ways it is a bit to early for it’s own good.
I remember as a kid loving that show and would watch it religiously. One time a dutch frigate, the Witte de With i think, came to port and my dad took my brother and i on it and some of the sailors were watching bootleg VHS tapes of it in the ships Bar.
The whole "-there's a plot to ass ass inate him to avoid people from voting the wrong way-" really caught me off guard given recent events.
I could see the problems of this show even when it first aired in the 90s, but also the potential. I reckon it was a concept that was ahead of it's time, either that or go for a clear limited run like the original V.
“Who monitors the birds” was my favorite episode. I delt with alotta bullshit from the anti gun/anti military/anti American, school system growing up as a kid. Especially when being different and become to smart for my own good. So yeah, that episode was pretty relatable towards me.
Plus, there was almost no dialogue so it’s almost like a universal language.
I still love this show. Had some great ideas and episodes. Needs a reboot.
There is a string of one season Syfy shows in the 90s. Vr5, Viper, Space Above and Beyond. I enjoyed them all and still mourn their cancellations.
I didn't know about Vr5 or Viper ( but,will look for them on youtube ) but,I feel the same as you about Space: Above and Beyond.
Viper went on for 4 or 5 seasons!
@@chet8682 It did ??? I'm impressed.
yes! I was a fan. fun guilty pleasure show. it was canceled after its first season. retooled and went to UPN for a season. canceled again. retooled again and went to the USA network for another two seasons. I guess it was doing ok but the Viper manufacturers got tired of giving them so many cars and decided to call it quits so they had to cancel the show lol I found a bootleg dvd of the series online a while back and got it so I could watch here and there.
Very cool series, a tragedy it didn’t get a second series. It was entertaining, and social commentary etc. but it was also simple.
I to this day still have a huge crush on Chrsten Cloke, and totally geeked out on her role in Millenium.
I love this show and have a set of CD's of it.
Couldn't agree with you more. I loved the show at the time, and was sad it didn't get another season to really get it's footing, but that's how it was with Fox - they had some cool innovative new shows and if they weren't an instant hit they would can them immediately. I agree that I never understood how this same group of people would be used as fighter pilots, then infantry, then transport pilots... Made no sense at all. I LOVED the command staff though. They were honorable, realistic, salty warriors. The various subplots (the AI's, invitros, the interplay between Hawks and Nathan because of their backgrounds.... ) all made for interesting dynamics and potential for good stories. Wish somebody would reboot this!
24 and X-files were both going to be cancelled until BBC essentially made them huge hits in the UK and demanded more, an X-Files did a tour of scifi conventions to convince Fox for more eps. Shame some of their other shows didn't get that treatment.
Loved this show in the 90s it was my Friday night treat....this and then x-files....but I agree with all of your points....It deserves a reboot
I watched every episode. I ended up buying it. I still watch it from time to time. I’d love to see a reboot of someone with passion would do it.
His MOS is Space Aviator Cavalry. Much like how Cavalry are infantry that can fight mounted or dismounted from a horse or vehicle, space aviator cavalry are infantry that can fight mounted or dismounted from an aerospace capable attack ship.
When it costs of lot to send someone in to space then across the galaxy it might begin to make sense to have someone who can do multiple things. When today we can see that computers have made it so any grunt can be a drone operator with just a PlayStation controller it might not be far fetched to think that might someday make it so any grunt can become an attack jet pilot; the computer does all the hard work the warm body is just there to pull the trigger because of light-speed lag from trying to talk to the command ship.
That S:AAB shows the military of the near future is different and not a carbon copy of today is a good thing.
Cavalry are Cavalry, Dragoons and Light Horse are mounted infantry. Using trained fighter pilots as grunts is like taking a thoroughbred and grinding it up to feed dogs.
@@zedfan4598Depends on what it takes to train a fighter pilot. Today they have drones that can be flown by a grunt with a PlayStation controller, 30 years ago that would have been unfathomable.
Also in the US context cavalry fought like dragoons. In the modern context cavalry are infantry mounted on APCs or IFV that can fight mounted or dismounted as needed.
@@williammagoffin9324
Partially wrong. The Cavalry UNIT does that. The actual soldiers have different MOS. The ones that fight on the ground as actual infantry have one MOS. The drivers and weapon operators have another. The drones flown by a PS controller are small and are assigned to a particular MOS. They’re basically expensive RC planes. The BIG drones, equivalent to a starfighter, require most of the qualifications for a regular pilot if not all of them. Those are all VERY different skill sets. It might be a good idea to have individual personnel be cross-trained on some weapons systems (but definitely not all of them to the point they’re all interchangeable; no one does that), but what you’re suggesting is ridiculous.
I still don't see a "universal soldier" become a thing. It would require such level of tech development IRL as is obviously not present in the series.
I really wanted this to get another season, too. Though not with Nathan, that guy's voice made Michael Jackson sound butch.
I get why every cast member went on every mission, one way that could have worked would be with cybernetic 'skill wires' from cyberpunk stories that were near contemporaneous. That way you could have them 'slotting' their loadout for each mission. It wouldn't have taken much screen time to explain and it would paper over one problem the show had.
Call for the doctor, call for the nurse; call for the lady with the alligator purse! *Barney Fife. Always comes to mind, gives me a chuckle during hospital stays.
After your analysis I would like to say one thing, sometimes these shows are just for entertainment. And it was entertaining!
Can’t believe I’d never heard of this show. These hidden gems are what should be getting reboots and remakes.
I just stumbled upon you in my feed, what a pleasure. I remember this show fondly, pretty fair criticism all round. Thanks for the content.
2:00 sounds familiar! Now that I think of it, a lot of this bs sounds familiar. The only difference being that the show’s sympathies seem to lie with those we are now supposed to see as villains. Odd that.
My friends all loved this, and I was the one pointing out that it was a waste to spend a few million bucks training a fighter pilot, to then make him a rifleman. I think this is the first time I realized that the WWII generation was no longer making the products in Hollyweird, and the Vietnam veterans weren’t going to pick up the slack, so things were just going to get dumber.
Like when I was talking to my students about WWII and told them that when a human is hit by a bullet, they fall down instead of flying across the room. But the tv shows…. Yeah, but I was an infantryman and I was in the war. I saw. Some still argued, because they knew fictional television had to be right. Sigh.
You Sir, missed the point. It being dumb was the whole point.
They were losing the war and the higher ups did not care. They were plugging holes with diamonds.
@@AdamMPick Then I commend to you Baa Baa Black Sheep AKA Black Sheep Squadron, in which you will see that done more effectively. Or they could have done the traditional route of showing women, children and old men being incorporated into combat units with token training. When this sort of thing was actually done, notably Bataan, they actually used the ground crews, not the flight personnel, who were still too valuable to waste. See again comments about the ignorance in Hollyweird.
It had a good adolescence coming of age while in service of the Marine Corps theme. The lost young idealists losing their moral compass when exposed to harsh realities of truth war and politics. The corps solidifying a new moral compass heading in the corps values (love for the team above oneself and selfishness, sacrifice, honor, integrity). This was and is an important part of military attraction - service in name of the service, not the cause or war. Eventually many soldiers see the real enemy is the war itself not necessarily the opposing individuals who may share a similar local bond. As per the title it is the service of peers above and beyond what binds us and attracts us as a species (living in small human groups that depend on each other). There were routinely great and memorable lines and commentaries in the show - the monologue about making peace with ones maker prior to killing Chiggy Von Richthofen was one.
In fact, if you wanted to keep all the characters together you could set it on a future space LHD-type ship.
Just discovered this gem of a channel. I'm a massive Sci-fi geek. Started off reading Welles' The War of the Worlds as a kid (Love your video on that). Read a lot of the great authors from the 50's/60's, Campbell, Asimov, Clarke to name a few. Keep up the amazing work my friend.
GWOT, I lived through it.
Excellent video and helped me process a loss from all those years ago. It could have been better, as suggested with cool ideas! The series came out of the gate really strong in the first season and I watch those episodes all the time...the series will forever play in my head and would have loved to see any further seasons or story development. Ahead of it's time. Thanks!
I loved this series!
I watched the show when it first aired while I was serving with the Marines. At the time I was always confused why pilots were sometimes operating as an infantry squad (filled with only officers). I love military sci-fi, but they didn't know how to do the military part on this show.
Take the fix suggested in the video one more step forward. The story is about a space going version of an Marine Expeditionary Unit. That gives you the context for these people knowing each other and working together even when they are not all pilots.
If they ever do a show like this again, whether a reboot or just a similar concept, I hope this is the framework.
I remember catching this when it was on air on Fox for the mid-1990s. A lot of shows died quickly on that network. I remember this was one of many shows that had aired on the bad Friday evening time slots. X-Files was always on and succeed in the Friday 9pm time slot where TV shows died. But before X-Files aired on Friday nights, there was a constant cycle of shows going through the 8pm slot before. Brisco County Jr, Sliders, and Space: Above and Beyond were among them. These shows died quickly.
I was not fond of how this show ended, it pissed me off. However, I still did buy the DVD collection that released in the mid-2000s. I recall one night a coworker and I talked about this show. He had fond memories of it but my enthusiasm dropped after I had seen the show again on DVD. He didn't see most of the series like I had. I let him borrow the set and when he was done, he agreed. It got a lot worse towards the end.
It would be interesting if this show was rebooted today, to see how history the last few decades would shape show events. There's also been a number of sci-fi shows on for some years now, a small resurgence. Star Trek has been back on TV for years now. The Expanse. Etc.
Would love to see this remade!!!
Great synopsis. A show both ahead of it's time and lost in it's own past.
Handsome Alven was a great character played by David Duchovny on one episode.
As a teen I kinda liked that they were fighter pilots, but also ground soldiers. ‘In the future, we have progressed to doing military this way, and besides, these are expeditionary space marines who have to be able to do everything’ is a way to summarise it for me.
"Shuffle up the Wild Cards, and Deal Em."
Thankfully you can watch it on youtube. Great show.
As a marine I loved this show. It was as you stated poorly written. It did have promise though. Is that you Max Headroom???
I remember this series when it aired over the air on FOX, who (in their infinite wisdom) scheduled it after College Football. The 'world premier' episode was clobbered, when the football game went overtime, and the station finally got to it 'in progress' cutting the first 1/2 hour. Later I purchased to entire set on DVD, sadly only in 'full frame' which is Edison's 4:3 format!
I loved that series. Yea, it was all over the place, but every episode was better than the previous.
I keep coming back to generation kill. How that was filmed. You got the sense even with a limited central cast that the war was huge. Space only had a handful of characters and extras, you got the sense that the Saratoga was a functional navy ship but that was about it.
If it were to get a reboot we know more now about how to frame the show and do more with less.
This is one series I would actually like a long reboot of, something I am opposed to in general. It was a good show even with it's failings.
I'd be interested to see your thoughts on the Helldivers games, considering the rising popularity/"controversy" surrounding them.
I just started looking into Helldivers the other day. Bizarre thoughts are forming.
What controversy?
It's a satire of how the US views itself "Greatest nation in history" = Super Earth.
And it nails it...
I do concur and if it loops in a new audience all the better. Very odd to see this guy has less than 4k subs.
I loved this show…I was only a few years into my almost 27 years with the military and our squad got together to watch each episode in the barracks. Was our times “firefly” but in a much smaller scale.
I’ve even looked for fan fiction but with no luck.
Would love to see a reboot!
I remember staying up very late to watch this. I never got to see most of the episodes.
Those I did see were absolutely gripping. The writing was a bit wobbly but nowhere near as iffy as ( redacted - I'm not starting a war, here). Given the people weren't skilled at acting on green-screen sets ( who was?) they did an okay job.
Now, if someone was crazy enough to reboot the series like they did with Battlestar Galactica, I'm so very in!
Your idea is very much like mine, in having different characters in different roles. I thought of it as a sci-fi version of Third Watch. That great series was split between the police, fire fighters, and ambulance crews
I remember this show fondly despite it's often clunky writing. As a teenager I loved that it was doing things other TV scifi shows weren't....or at least it was trying to.
4:00 "We have faster than light space craft, but otherwise, current tech."
Yep, so many sci-fi shows could be written on that premises, and they'd be fun to watch. Hollywood would only touch it to make it lame. We're going to have to go back to radio (podcast) entertainment.
Honestly I feel like this was one of those shows that if it had been made later like mid 2000s instead of in 1995 it would've been a pretty good show and actually gone somewhere.
I absolutely love the conccept of this short lived series. What I did not like was the main characters doing everything. As a marine we were given specific jobs, some of which take years to complete or master. You are 100% correct about everything in your summarization. I would love to see them remake this series but with more focused characters. Great video.
I watched this series when it first aired (yes I’m that old😂) and it was incredible. I do remember thinking at the time it was kind of weird that highly trained pilots would double as infantry. The strangest moment that killed the immersion for me was a weapon system they used once. In the scene a hammerhead attacks a chig satellite station when a chig fighter launches from the station to defend it. The hammerhead launches a missile that fires bolts or shells from around its side. The bolts shoot past the chig fighter and blow up the station and then then body of the missile blows up the fighter. It was so ridiculously contrived that what little I remember of the show, that scene has always stuck. But that was pretty emblematic of the show. It swung back and forth from being utterly ridiculous and unbelievable to absolutely amazing. Like when the prototype “chiggy Von Richthofen” was revealed and the words “abandon all hope” are scrawled along its side. I guess that was ultimately the shows downfall, much like the pilots acting as infantry, it was trying to be everything all at once.
Enjoyed this with my dad and it was right around the time I enlisted. It was nice seeing R L Ermey reprise his role from Full Metal Jacket. Story was decent and the actors gave it there all I felt. Some better than others. At the time was bummed it didn’t get a few more seasons. The space stuff was interesting and compelling.
I think you make good points, what got me in most critiques later was exactly the point you raised about pilots doing grunt work etc. When I originally watched this, that partciular issue sailed right by me as I wasn't aware of the armed forces structures and that probably goes for a lot of people at the time. I always kind of looked on this show like 'Tour of Duty' which aired very late in the UK in space settings.
The logic I use to fix this, is that these space vessels had just enough space for a few pilots and the ship crew and barely enough of either. So everyone had to be be multi roles to keep the whole shabbang running. So pilots had to be marines, marines had to be pilot and occassionally scrub the decks and clean the bogs.
Plus they also had just had a AI war, they were wary of using AI in their ships.
A memorable SciFi series with some almost prophetic insights into our future. One episode stands out to me in this regard. The one where the alien was captured but then blew itself up... it set the aliens apart from humans who at that time would likey not conduct a suicide mission. Of course, that changed dramatically on 9/11 2001, just 4 years after the series aired. After that suicide terrorists became common. We will never know what else this SciFi series might have prophesied if it had been allowed to go to the planned 5 series. In my opinion, too many great SciFi series are cancelled due to low ratings because some story arcs and characters need time to gather followers. Annoyingly some are cancelled without being able to reach a logical ending... like reading a book where someone has torn out the last page.
I watched one or two episodes of this at the time, when it must be remembered sci fi options were scarce and production values were low. I must have picked the one good one because when I went back years later to check it out I couldn't believe how completely awful it was. I agree that having some, or indeed any, correspondence to actual military people doing military stuff would have helped.
Chiggy Von Richthofen was the high point, it pioneered future TV space combat
You are correct, so much wasted potential. Fighter pilots one week and then Infantry the next. They should have had a bigger cast or as you stated separated the types of duties the principles played and they could have used semi-regulars to fill in for the rest of the pilots, infantry, support etc.
Your talk at the end - about the 90's and a sense of loss before the 'War on Terror' reminds me of a Fight Club scene - Tyler Durden's speech about "We had no great war; we had no great depression." That and the buildings blowing up are probably the reason's that movie will not be remade anytime soon.
Good video.
I liked it it was like Dune 1984 it had potential but was roughly set up and delivered.
There was one episode here that terrified me as a kid. That episode where a fighter craft got caught in a black hole...
It seemed to me there was a flaw in the logic of the show. The colonizing mission Nathan and Kyla were a part of took years of preparation and wouldn't see a follow up mission for several more years, and yet somehow the military was easily capable of operating a huge fleet deep into interstellar space. Even so I liked the show a lot, and I agree it does have some things in common with the Battlestar Galactica reboot of the 2000s. Shane Vansen seems like the prototype for Kara Thrace. One other thing I remember about the show is that Bill Clinton mentioned the show by name, citing it as an example of the violent programming seen on TV