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Fixing Johto's Elite 4
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
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The Elite 4 have some huge flaws about them, let's theorycraft some better teams for them!
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Also let me know your own team composition ideas in the comments!
Also can't lie I'm nervous a bit on if people hard disagree with my choices lol but hope you enjoy
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@@xanderbraxton949I thought I had, mobile moment
You forgot to give Scizor its best STAB option: Hidden Power Bug!
For Koga, switch Crobat and Muk so Muk is the ace.
Give him dig instead of fire punch, and minimize instead of body slam. And of course, leftovers. He'll make much better use of it than Crobat.
I know you don't like evasion but on one mon it's not as bad as on the whole team, and it preserves Koga's theme better to at least let the ace have it.
@@alexbraun1305I like the idea, and agree muk with leftovers would be great, I tried preserving their original aces, but yeah leftovers muk is scary o_o Also unfortunately muk doesn't learn dig in gen 2 anyway, only mud-slap
i'm a bit disappointed you nixed all the evasion from Koga's moveset.. Minimize Muk was so annoying and is burned into my brain.. it's iconic.
Yeah I lost a nuzlocke to that Muk...it's good
Koga also needs Venomoth. Might not be as good as Steelix, but it's gotta be Venomoth.
And Scizor doesn't fit well
@shaunduggan8605 I agree. Doesn't fit the poison theme.
I agree, Koga needs evasion and the ability to poison to be on theme
Alright hear me out. Gens 1 and 3 are also probably prime for Big Fixes like this and Janine and her fellow post game gym leaders are more than a little rough themselves.
Yeah I think I'll try gen 1 gym leaders next when I make my next video in this series, working within the confines of gen 1s limited moves and Pokémon is quite a fun idea to me
@@RoryTheFiendWill it be Gen 1 leaders in Gen 1 & 2 or just Gen 1?
I am soooo excited to see Gen 1 get the Rory treatment!
Also: every slowking I raise from now on will have flamethrower, no exceptions
@@thequagiestsire it'll be gen 1 kanto next I think
@@courtjester7778 I mean hey it's a great move and counters those grass types!
Fun fact: Tyranitar is the only pseudo-legendary that isn't used by any elite 4 (or otherwise used as a mandatory endgame encounter in any form) in its debut generation. I always thought this was weird, considering they have Karen, a dark-type trainer, available for this purpose. Not dissing the use of Houndoom as her ace, but it could've been much better.
Houndoom isnt really a good ace tbh because its very frail
Ik you basically addressed it, but Goodra is actually used on the champion team, not elite four
Neither does Kommo-o in S/M
@@monsoon1303 I figured that the Totem Kommo-o on Poni Island almost certainly counts as a mandatory endgame encounter. Ergo, the parenthetical phrase.
Probably would've been better to state that Tyranitar is the only pseudo that doesn't have any mandatory battle associated with it in its debut generation. Idk, I'm probably just older and wiser than I was seven months ago, lol.
To be totally fair, Tyranitar isn't available until the very end of its debut games. In my opinion, Marill should've been put in the Violet City side of Dark Cave to hopefully give benefit from its early evolution, Dunsparce should've been put in Union Cave, and Larvitar should've been put in Mount Mortar.
i like the thematic decision to not change any of Karen's team. it feels very "right" to leave her team comp alone and only alter the moves.
I really liked return on houndoom. Nice way to mean what you say
Honestly I'd give her Sneazel and go the Lance route and give her Tyranitar
@@ItsFireTigerAgreed, I found it weird he didn’t give her a Tyranitar considering it’s a psuedolegend and a dark type. In the following games on GBA Drake had a Salamence and Steven had a Metagross so
@@agentblackbird9435Her whole thing is that she uses Pokémon she likes, and it doesn’t matter if they’re particularly strong or not, that’s why OP liked that he didn’t touch her team.
Honestly Bruno could use something like a Heracross with Endure, Reversal, Megahorn and Rock Slide/Earthquake with a Quick Claw attached, he'd have a Johto Pokemon that no other boss has and he'd have good coverage against Psychic types and he could sweep you with Reversal if you're unpreapred.
In the Gym Leader vid he gave Heracross to Chuck (though it could work since Jasmine has Steelix too)
Much like lance and aerodactyl he would have to cheat to get a rock slide heracross
@@sharky2404 Oh yeah 'cause there's no tutor/TM for Rock Slide in Gen 2 and you can't trade Heracross to Gen 1 to use the TM on it.
Donphan on Bruno’s also good foreshadowing. Donphan’s Gen 9 son will remember that.
Wouldn't Great Tusk be Donphan's grandpa?
@@maninthetrenchcoat5603im pretty sure paradox forms aren't real, as the name implies
@@korepandorano, they are. The name paradox comes from their concurrent existence with present day Pokémon. Do you know what a paradox is lmao
@@TheKyubiisaanI think they meant “not real” is in they didn’t actually exist in the past or future, and were instead created by the disk pokemon in the present
@@hisshoes1107I don’t think they were created by imagination, tbh, since Heath went into the crater before the Legendary beasts were born and thus, couldn’t have imagined their Paradox forms. My guess is that they really are from the past and/or future, except the ones of alternate timelines.
I love the idea of lance getting a grass type and having a fire/water/grass 'core' like the other two elite trainers (blue/red)
That's a cool idea! Could definitely make it work for Lance as well
Charizard, Feraligtr and Sceptile are all dragon-like starters and would work perfectly.
Shame Sceptile wasn't a thing back then. Although giving Lance one would be a fantastic teaser to gen 3.
imo if that Meganium had been on his team I'd want it to have both screens, and be more of a support mon. Dunno if that would work with the Gen 2 AI though
24:40 I definitly felt like tyranitar wouldve been the better pick than lapras, its never used in the game and its dragonlike in appearence wise.
moveset, maybe something like curse, crunch, iron tail, and dynamic punch.
or if meganium was given to lance instead, than it wouldve been great to be karen's ace.
Yeah I considered tyranitar for Karen, I decided to show some mercy not giving her one, but would be a good choice for a round 2 fight if that was a thing in gen 2
Maybe because to get Larvitar you need to be a champion in this game. I think giving tyranitar to non champion trainers doesn't make sense lore wise.
@@fenistereinc.5797 I mean you also need to be champion to get slugma, murkrow, misdreavus and houndour as they're also post game exclusives. and its not like karen's some random trainer, she's the 4th member of the elite 4 right before fighting lance. also in pokemon emerald elite 4 member drake has a salamence on his team so Id say its consistant.
Pupitar doesn't evolve into Tyranitar until level 55 so the whole level scheme of the e4 would have to be shifted to accommodate that. I do like the idea of Lance having one though.
@@cymantics8249same with his dragonite.
Charizard: *can't learn fly in red blue*
Meanwhile slowking: *breathes fire*
Gen 1 Charizard was a physical attacker that could only get STAB on special moves. The most damaging move it could learn without TMs was _Slash!_
@@RokuroCarisugen 1 slash will almost always crit becaus char has high speed and i dont know where you get the idea from that he is a physical attacker his special is 85 and atk is 84
Lances updated Dragonite knowing Extremespeed falls into the lore of Pokémon how once you pass the Dragons Den you are gifted a Dratini which knows this move.
Lance the hacker should totally keep the illegal Rock Slide. It’s also in keeping with the special ExtremeSpeed move for Dratini/Dragonair/Dragonite. That clan clearly has special move access that you don’t necessarily get.
I know it's a psuedo, but I'm surprised that tyranitar didn't show up on karen or lance's teams.
if only johto’s level scaling was decent…
@@robbierivera1715
Lance with THREE lv50 dragonite: i know right
Both Lance and Drake use psuedos on their Elite Four teams so I do not see how that would be an issue on Karen's team lol. Is it because Champion Lance also uses psuedos?
Fun fact: Official Merch for the Masters 8 in the anime featured a Lapras on Lance's team but we never saw it unfortunately.
Overall I agree with how you edited Lance's team, maybe could have even put a Tyranitar on it somewhere, since it's definitely enough of a Dragon to be included I feel like.
agreed. he learns DragonBreath, too.
Great video. Just two things I would change. I think Bruno's Hitmon should be Hitmontop, even if it is weaker than Hitmonlee. Also, I think that it's really cool to give the Dragonite Extremespeed, but for lore purposes, we still need to fit Hyper Beam on that moveset. Maybe the OG moveset with Safeguard replaced with Extremespeed would be the best way to have both.
Yeah hitmontop over Lee is a solid choice, I'd totally be happy with that as well. I was close to giving dragonite Hyper Beam still, I think I just was too tempted by the flamethrower and thunderbolt coverage lol
Holy cow congrats on 3k!!! Most definitely deserved!! Cant wait to see how this e4 change is
It's funny in the vid I ask if we can get 3000 subs from this vid lol knowing it's be an easy goal, didn't realise it'd be so easy I'd get it before the vid went up!
Thanks nevi you're a real one :)
@@RoryTheFiendIf one can, try and do a rom hack with the gym leaders and e4 changed
@@Jet-plane somebody has already made it with my changes, in fact, stay tuned because an announcement is happening very soon
You keeping Karen's team the same is making me feel some type of emotion, it's just really sweet and I love that so much. Very on-theme with her values.
Yeah she chose her team based on her favourites, and her favourites while all not dark type I do feel like they it in, even Vileplume! Which is helped along a bit by how dark the sprites can look in gen 2 (I really like how gen 2 sprites look)
I think Meganium would have been a fun addition, maybe taking out Lapras
Fun fact: Meganium's beta name was Hanaryu, meaning "flower dragon". And it evolved from a flower mole; moles being nicknamed "earth dragons" in Japanese... Which by extension means that Chikorita wasn't designed as a baby dinosaur, but a sprouting seed mole.
Yeah, Lance now has 3 Water types (Kingdra, Gyarados, Lapras).
Definitely one of them for Meganium. Although, making him pack a starter might be weird...
@@CarmsCelestia Charizard is a starter too.
@@RokuroCarisu True, but not a Gen II starter in Gen II... Those always needed excuses to be special in the early gens.
@@CarmsCelestia Not to mention if it were possible in the game's code if say the protag didn't catch the shiny red Gyarados it would have been cool if Lance ends up having it on his team instead of the blue one sharing the same color as Kingdra especially since it fittingly suits him as both of them are red and given the anime has him with it.
This Channel is so underrated and im sure it will grow very big, great work mate.
Honestly I would love to see GAMEFREAK doing teams based on certain themes rather then typing. Like instead of a fire gym leader it could be a sun based team with different typings but all having sth in common with the sun like the design, ability or movepool
Yeah I agree, typing is just one way to theme teams, you could do it on technology for example, give the gym leader steels, electrics, and other random pokemon like porygon. Or how about a zookeeper gym leader that has pokemon that are based on animals commonly found in zoos? A lot of interesting potential there I think
You know what, that's exactly what they did with the gen 1 elite 4 :
Lorelei isn't really an ice type master. She's an ice type user, focusing on the Frozen status and using the special stat with ice/water/psychic types.
Bruno is the physical stats specialist, using three powerful types : fighting/rock/ground, that have great use of attack and defense stats (too Bad he had two Onix instead of Golem and Rhydon, for example).
Agatha is the status master. Using her 100% poison, 66% ghost type team to : poison, badly poison, paralyse, confuse, put to sleep, afraid, taking life while healing back, even blocking stat changes. Sometimes a mix of those, at same time. She's got the annoyance theme team, litteraly.
Lance, finally, is the master of hard to train pokemons. Gyrados, Dragonite, even Dragonair and Aerodactyle are pretty hard to grow up especially on their base forms... And he tamed them all.
That's why Raihan was my favorite gym battle in the series. Sure he's a "dragon" leader, but his real thing was double battle weather manipulation .
@@AlexBelte3002 I see your point, however I think they only did that because of the limited amount of Pokémon available at that time. Nowadays this has the return but more fleshed out.
@@d_xniel15yeah definitely. I said they did it on gen 1 but i should've mentionned it was unintentionnal, obviously. I never understood why in gen 3 they didn't make the Elite 4 a climate themed crew, since it was this generation who put the climate on the table...
I’m shocked you didn’t give Lance a Tyranitar, but Lapras was a great inclusion! Great video again
Tyranitar goes to Karen.
I know it's a bit of a cop-out answer, but I'm surprised to see no Hidden Power anywhere.
Gyarados with HP Flying would have been a great addition
Really appreciate the smooth editing and script here!! Hope your subscribers continue to blow up
Thank you so much :) gonna do my best to make more fun pokemob content!
Karen should have Tyranitar. The only pseudo (until Kommo-O, I guess) not used by either a champion or final Elite 4 member in its own generation, and a really awesome Dark type for the trainer using Vileplume and Gengar for some reason. Special Attack is still good enough to use Dark moves, and you get a really cool strong Pokémon here.
she uses her favorites, though
It is not used because in this game you can't get tyranitar unless you are a champion. That makes it a really rare and exclusive pokemon.
At least Blue uses a Tyranitar in his FRLG rematch. Not quite the same, but at least it's something.
@@fenistereinc.5797two of her pokemon are also only available for champions so why not at that point
@@fenistereinc.5797 How did she get Houndoom then?
Lance is more of a Water-type trainer now than a Dragon-type specialist 🤔
That's cause there's barely any Dragons to work with in early gens.
He was a flying type trainer before
@@o-poppoo5117i mean dragons are more known for flying then swimming atleast
@@o-poppoo5117 Fair enough 😂
I feel like Lance should definitely be a rain dance user. It would likely be something the player doesnt experience much of during a normal playthrough, and could have some gnarly synergy with the water types here, and ofc 100% thunder potential
I’m so proud of the growth in over a week , the content feels like 2 mill subscribers you found your niche and I’m just happy for you it’s my favorite channel
Same
I don't know how I feel about you leaving Bruno with less fighting types than he started with to be honest. I know that they kind of suck in this generation, but still, it is a bit strange.
I've always liked the idea of the Elite Four becoming an entrance exam to Kanto which you find out after beating Lance, as the power of pokemon has dramatically increased after the events of the first gen. Kanto is only accepting worthy trainers that can withstand its power.
Something like all the gyms would be up to level 60 before Snorlax/Digletts cave & up to level 70 after.
With this or a similar scenario in mind, would love to see you tackle the Kanto gym leaders, final rival fight & Red. What would a perfect post game look like?
Would also love to see you take on the challenge of making a team as if every Johto gym was in Blackthorn, e.g. how would Falkner's/Bugsy/Whitney etc teams change if they were the last gym leader rather than the first?
Love your content! Another great video!
For Umbreon why not go for Moonlight 🌙 instead of Bite for Recovery and to add some additional trolling like Crystal Kaizo
Damn, as a young kid who loved 2nd gen, I never realized how bad these teams were, like holy hell. 😂
Heh back in the day my quagsire and feraligatr steam rolled the elite 4 good times lol
Haha Lance still got away with an illegal pokémon, the lv50 Dragonite, it evolves at 55.
No Tyranitar on Karen is a crime
Think about it like this: Pupitar evolves at level 55 into Tyranitar. That means that either Karen has to cheat with an underleveled Tyranitar, or buff all the Johto elite 4 up to make it work. Besides, she uses her favorite pokemon in her fight.
All of the elite 4 are pathetically underlevelled anyway. They should have started at lvl 50 with Will and gone upwards from there like in gen 1.
1. For Will, I (almost) completely agree with you. This team is a great upgrade and really represents Johto. The only thing that’s worrying me is that I think Alakazam would really help his team.
2. For Koga, I think Muk should get rid of Body Slam and regain Minimize. I had trouble with that in HGSS.
3. For Bruno, I feel like this makes him too much of a Ground-Type Specialist, although I suppose I’m okay since Giovanni’s off of the stage at this point in the world. I think Heracross could work here instead of Donphan though.
4. For Karen, I agree, though I think Tyranitar could replace Murkrow or something. (Though I also understand that might make the fight a bit too hard.)
5. Finally, for Lance, I don’t like Kingdra being on his team, since that’s the only Dragon-Type Pokémon that Clair uses and Lance doesn’t. Instead, I think the final Pokémon should be…A GODDAMN AMPHAROS. It is Dragon enough to be a Dragon, considering it’s Japanese name and it’s Mega Evolution, and I think it would serve as a type diverse option for Lance.
Lance also has an Ampharos in the TCG. I thought about Steelix considering he had one in Stadium and it still fits the draconic theme.
I really like the new teams for Will and Koga; they seem really well thought out. I respect the choices for Bruno, Karen and Lance even though I disagree with some of the chosen Pokemon.
I think Bruno should have a Heracross (Endure, Reversal, Megahorn, Earthquake) and Hitmontop (Rolling Kick, Dig, Detect, Counter) instead of Donphan and Steelix.
Karen should have a Sneasel (Slash, Metal Claw, Shadow Ball, Mud Slap) or a Pupitar/Tyanitar (Crunch, Earthquake, Rock Slide, Curse) instead of her Vileplume.
The Kingdra and Lapras would overlap with Clair, so Lance should have an Ampharos (Thunder Punch, Fire Punch, Light Screen, Cotton Spore) and either a second Dragonite (Outrage, Ice Beam, Surf, Extreme Speed) or Tyranitar (Crunch, Rock Slide, Dragonbreath, Hyper Beam)
Koga's sex being yes legit made me laugh. Really like your editing!
I actually like the idea of Lance having a Meganium just because then he'd have both a Gen 1 AND a Gen 2 fully evolved starter. Switch out the Gyarados so he doesn't have 3 water types and I think it's good.
I expected this channel to have way more subs. I hope this channel continues to grow
We're going on this RUclips journey I wonder how far we can go!
My dream Elite Four for the Johto games would have been:
Sabrina - Make Will Saffron City's gym leader. Sabrina deserves the promotion.
- Espeon
- Mr. Mime
- Alakazam
- Gengar
- Slowking
Giovanni - This would be cool seeing Giovanni follow up on how Red fixed him in the small short series after their gym battle. Giovanni shits on Koga and having Janine as well is just redundant. He was also rumored to be an elite four member somewhere, same with Misty, but I would be happy if Misty continued being Cerulean City's gym leader.
- Rhyperior
- Nidoking
- Nidoqueen
- Kangaskhan
- Persian
Bruno - With proper Pokemon, and since Agatha and Lorelie retired, Bruno deserves to stay and can be devastating.
- Steelix
- Hitmonchan - I kept this Pokemon over Hitmonlee because I am pretending that the elemental punches are physical (I.E. this is HG/SS).
- Machamp
- Poliwrath
- Heracross - I chose Heracross for psychic type coverage with Megahorn.
Karen - I just love Karen and her team. They just needed a move pool update, though I am heavily considering Tyranitar.
- How you built her is good for me, though I am evolving Murkrow and heavily considering the addition of Tyranitar.
Lance - A very strong champion that just needs a couple of changes.
- I like how you built him here and I love the addition of Meganium in place of Gyarados. Why Gyarados? Because Lance has too many water types and especially too many secondary flying type Pokemon. Lance doesn't need all of this electric type weakness, especially with a Pokemon that gets one shot by a quad effective Thunder Fang, Thunder Punch, Thunderbolt or Thunder. You can make a case for replacing Lapras instead, but Lapras just destroys Gyarados every single time and doesn't take quad effective damage from electric type moves.
This is probably my favorite Kanto/Johto elite four that I could possibly dream of. If I could change just one more thing, I'd give Agatha a ghost gym in Viridian City or Lavender Town. If Lavender Town, make the old Viridian City gym a trainer's school right next to the Indigo League. I love Agatha and feel like she might love a more complacent position as a top ranking gym leader or something.
Top tier content as always 👌 These teams are perfect. But I do love the idea of Meganium in the finale...
I believe in my crystal rom I edited a few years ago that you played he had meganium, a cool mon for sure that made more sense since I made him dragon type as well!
@@RoryTheFiend He did have a Meganium, that's why the rom was top tier :)
Bruno, having a Donpban
It’s one of those things that never crossed my mind but that make so much sense. Don’t know why but it definitely looks like Bruno’s signature. Pokémon
Bruno is just that kind of guy to have tanky bulky pokemon that aren't necessarily fighting types I feel, I'm all for mixing up their teams types a little bit to go with their general theme / atmosphere.
@@RoryTheFiend I mean, it has an Onix instead of Heracross, Primeape... it's not that big of a lore break to give it Donphan
19:42 Houndoom with Return just doesn't work unless you can hack the game to the extent that you can give Trainer POKéMON friendship values. Otherwise, they're taken as zero friendship because the value doesn't exist. If you can get Blue's Pidgeot to mirror move your Return, you can notice that despite getting STAB, it does single-digit (or very low double-digit) damage.
Eyyyy was waiting for this video. Great work work man.
I think that Frustration might fit a dark type trainer better than Return (on Karens Houndoom)
True, but with Karen's speech about using favourites I feel return makes sense since in my mind this is her true favourite team and not just a team she has because its strong
Yeah but Karen loves her Pokémon and frustration does damage based on how much they hate their trainer. It’s a perfect villain move though!
00:56 As someone who knows quite a lot of camera tricks, I could suggest that another thing that GameFreak *could* have done if they had leaned into the "Will is a fraudulent psychic" idea is to play into the fact that the sprites are still images and say that he's bouncing the ball on the back of his hand and the "snapshot" was taken mid-bounce. I have tons of photos of me where I tossed something and clicked the shutter while the item was in midair and it looks like it's levitating, it's a simple enough trick, made more difficult when you have to keep it in the air for a moving shot.
This also would play into the theory my friends and I had as kids that Will is just Lorelei after transitioning.
One I hate, is that you gave Bruno a Donphan, when the better change would've been to simply swap Hitmonchans Attack and Special Attack, or at least had the three punches be physical. But a high special attack and defence, with reasonable defence, on a fighting type that hits harder than one thinks, would've been great. Really changes things up for player to plan around.
This is about team composition, not changing the stats of pokemon and the types of moves
Lance's Charizard/Gyarados/Aerodactyl could be swapped for a Tyranitar, 2 different 600 base stat pokemon would be great and a strong dark stab would take out that Starmie finally
Meganium's Giga Drain also works.
@@sunshower6560 True but Tyranitar is more powerful and it sucks it wasn't used by any notable trainers in the Johto games, however if Karen gets Tyranitar as the ace then Lance could have a Meganium, since he has a Charizard I guess he's fine with using starters
Honestly these teams would be amazing to face as they'd be a challenge and are you gunna do rematch teams
I understand the logic, if I don't necessarily agree. I think a lot more can be salvaged by getting more item aggressive. My personal setup would be:
Will: I like the Slowking swap, but I'd give it an Amnesia-Rest set with a Mint Berry as it plays into Slowking's bulk. Girafarig as an Agility passer would replace the first Xatu. Shadow Ball is a Psychic counter always given to the player, so I think it needs a check someplace to punish complacency and Agility passing makes the slower pokemon more dangerous (giving a reason to use phaze/haze). I agree with Exeggutor's moveset, but really think the Leftovers should go here (although I wouldn't argue with Miracle Seed). I like the Espeon, although I'd be replacing Rest with Attract and Psych Up with Zap Cannon (plan is for a bit more aggression). Xatu is where I personally like Psych Up, and someone on the team is getting a Twisted Spoon
Koga: Trap-passing is strong enough to get Smogon to ban it. I'm keeping it and giving the Ariados Brightpowder (insert unflattering comparisons here). Koga just needs to be a bit quicker on the passing and the damaging move has options like Psychic, Night Shade, or even Solar Beam. Fortress either stays or gets the Qwilfish swap because Spikes is staying. Venomoth would become Arbok with Glare, Bite, Earthquake, and Swagger because someone's got to remind the player that Ampharos isn't a free include and Weezing sees an aggressive amount exposure in the game already. Plus, it accomplishes the same typing affect and gives an alternate status for poison and steel types. Curse Muk is a cool idea, kind of wish I'd thought of it. I'd personally include a Gold Berry on it though, as it's not quite tanky enough for my tastes without some healing. I'm also more a fan of Protect instead of Steel Wing and Giga Drain instead of Bite on Crobat. Stall pokemon should be stalling and Giga Drain covers rocks anyway.
Bruno: I'm keeping the original team except the Steelix upgrade and swapping some moves and the lead. Hitmontop is swapping pursuit for Triple Kick and getting the Leftovers as well as getting moved back in the team. I really like the idea of Bruno having a stable pokemon that's fairly difficult to finish off as a priority user and Triple Kick is basically a signature move. Hitmonlee will move to the front slot with Meditate, High Jump Kick, Mega Kick, and Hidden Power Ghost. I think Hidden Power should have been more used, and I'm taking advantage of it. Round it out with a Gold Berry, and that's an aggressive lead which should put at least one pokemon at risk. Hitmonchan's moveset drops Fire and Thunder Punch for Mega Punch and Counter in addition to getting either a Focus Band or a Black Belt depending on leaning. I like your Steelix, but I'd swap something for Explosion. Probably Rock Slide, since Fire and Ice are already covered. Machamp would drop Foresight for Curse, Vital Throw for Frustration and get a Quick Claw. I've found Machamp tends to stick longer than one might think, and Curse gives it a way to capitalize on that with Quick Claw making aggressive switching dangerous due to the risk of taking two attacks in a row.
Karen: I'm keeping the Umbreon, but switching Sand Attack or Confuse Ray for Baton Pass while handing it Leftovers. This is where I'm really building a team around Trap-pass. Murkrow gets the boot for Sneasel (I don't like Murkrow and I want to showcase something) with Metal Claw, Mud-Slap, Slash and Beat Up with a King's Rock attached. Beat Up is unique in that each hit can trigger King's Rock (resulting in a better than 40% flinch chance with 5 pokemon) and it does untyped, physical damage. Vileplume is keeping Stun Spore, but gets Swords Dance, Sludge Bomb and Leech Seed, although its presence would depend on how Pupitar or Tyranitar would feel. I like your Gengar, but Houndoom is getting an overhaul. The fire dog is getting Sunny Day, Solar Beam, Flamethrower, and Crunch/Pursuit with either Blackglasses or Charcoal. I see no reason other than undertuning to run any other set and Karen is beyond the point where that should be a necessary consideration.
Lance: The pokemon are staying. Gyardos switches Flail for HP Ground and gets a Soft Sand. Thunder-Nite swaps T Wave and Twister for Light Screen and Surf in addition to getting a Magnet. Blizzard-Nite swaps Twister and Hyper Beam for Swagger and Headbutt as well as being given a Nevermeltice. Charzard gets Belly Drum, Earthquake and a Gold Berry instead of Slash and Wing Attack. Aerodactyl keeps Ancient Power but I'm digging into Gen 1 to give it Earthquake, Double Edge and Sky Attack to wreak destruction with its shiny new Scope Lens. His Ace keeps Outrage and Safeguard, but I'm giving it Dynamic Punch and Extreme Speed and a final use of Leftovers. I'm trying to keep the strong offense while showing off different options for Dragonite to further enhance Lance's status as a master of Dragon pokemon, not just spamming them for big numbers.
Apologies for the wall of text. Just a topic I've been thinking about for awhile.
This is your brain on Smogon addiction.
anime did heracross so dirty, scizor blitzing around it like that when heracross is actually faster
Scizor has access to Agility though.
fun fact: i got board one day and i wrote out a "kanto/johto 10 years later" where i made new league for kanto and johto. Bruno was the champion because he was the only elite four member to remain besides lance, so he has to be epic. I gave him a politoad because he wanted a poliwrath but accidentally evolved it during evolution. his entire team is Wobbuffet (lead), politoad, steelix (evolved his by trade), magmortar (again another trade evolution), tangrowth, and machamp (ace)
I don’t know whether you saw my comment on the last one or not but I’m glad you used the suggestions for lance on it!
Are you going to do every generation? Because you should! You should be hired by game freak to make their gym and e4 hahaha
Gyarados has Rain Dance *because* one of the Dragonite has Thunder. It's a nice little synergy and kinda sad to see it gone?
Not good for the rest of his team though. Fire blast dragonite is weakened(which is a problem becuase that is his ace), and charizard and Aerodactyl take more damage from their weaknesses, charizard specifically is also weakened by the rain. It’s overall a negative move for lance lol
No clue why this channel isn't bigger. Fantastic insight and great video!!!
I would prefer Lance have Meganium over Lapras because:
1) Despite Meganium kinda sucking, it gives him the Fire/Water/Grass elemental trio that is usually represented on competent champions and encouraged to the player character in game
2) Gives a little more representation to an under-utilized starter, while Lapras was prominently used in the anime and on Lorelei's team as well as automatically gifted to the player in Gen 1
Regarding Lance's Johto Dragonites being lower level than his Kanto Dragonites, I just assumed the guy collects the Dratini line and probably has more than one box full of them. And him being a "DRAGON SPECIALIST" trainer class lets him sometimes evolve these Pokemon a little earlier than the generalist player character trainer does, or teach them moves they otherwise wouldn't be able to learn.
Meganium could be dragon-esque herbivore inspired. Love it.
Themes and Roles like End-Game and Champion come with stipulations tho..
As for LV Draggos, you can fish 'em up.
And Lance *is* older, so he -dished- fished 'em up.. younger.
Pretty cool, but taking hitmontop out was criminal ngl the little dude is so lovely
The quality of these videos are top-notch!
Congrats on 3k, looking forward to seeing your channel alongside some of the other pokemon greats someday.
I feel like for Lance, going with Charizard / Feraligatr / Meganium would make for a really interesting fight. Feraligatr is a vaguely draconic physical water type that, unlike Gyarados, also has decent SpAtk and good physical coverage. It gives him 3 distinct mons, and importantly the Fire/Water/Grass core
One thing Protect does for an elite four battle is waste PP, thus making the endurance part of the E4 a little more challenging. Not saying it’s the best strat but it does accomplish something
Jynx is a johto pokemon. Its only available in Gen 1 and 3 Kanto through Trade, and is only available to catch in Japanese Blue. Its available in Ice Path in all 5 Johto Games
Onix eventually earns its place back onto Bruno’s team with Eviolite and Body Press
Great Video! Personally I would change a few things like
- Giving All The Elite Four 6 Pokemon
- Giving Koga back Minimize
Congratulations on 3K subs! Amazing editing and team composition again, I loved this :D
3000 subs? mate, you deserve 300,000 at LEAST. Your videos are incredibly entertaining, instant subscribe.
Doing a great job, those transitions smooth. Hope your channel grows
this series encouraged me to keep working on my personal rebalancing of the first few games! Love the teams you come up with, and love that they’re not just “hard.” It’s really easy to go overboard with coverage and Pokémon variety and lose the personality of the OG trainer. Plus having more actual gen 2 Pokémon rep in these teams is cool. The original teams had like no johto mons lol. Love it!
Another Pokémon who I think could fit Bruno is Ursaring, not sure why but I just feel that
Tbh i like Koga's Ariados's moveset to an extent
Baton Passing Spider Web is the most heinous thing one can do with an Ariados
It would worked in a pokemon with better stats.
@@fenistereinc.5797 sad agree
@@fenistereinc.5797 Umbreon is capable of pulling such a thing off. Middling offensive stats but its defensive stats at least line up well for a support Pokemon. Trap Passing is pretty disgusting.
Ok but if dragonite doesn’t know hyperbeam then we would never get that iconic scene.
I clicked immediately as soon as I saw you released this video! Can't wait to see which gym leaders you fix next! I like that you're trying to optimise them for the older games which probably need it more for the most part compared to the more recent titles, although we seem to be going backwards 😅
I would really have liked it if Meganium had ancient power and dragonbreath in it learnset.
I know that Jasmine already owns a Steelix, but "steel" why didn't Bruno evolved the remaining Onix on the original game?! Like, it would be such a treat together with Machamp and would basically carry the "Tyrogue evolution squad", but NOO!
Meganium, Ttar, steelix, Ampharos due to strange origin it gets its mega from can function on Lance's team
Will: I see Girafarig as an opener much more than Espeon here. Mint Rest seems too much, either every Pokémon holds a Berry a la Stadium 2, or just skip that. Psych Up... I don't have faith in the AI using it, but we can all dream lol Slowking needs Psychic though, don't be afraid of pushing STAB moves, these trainers need it after all! And I agree with other people, Shadow Ball just doesn't cut it. Xatu could have Protect instead of Giga Drain to get along with Leftovers, Confuse Ray and Fly.
Koga: again I think we could have HP Bug here. And more Protect to stall all this poison Koga hopefully will hit. It fits Crobat more than Steel Wing, even if it gets walled by Steel types. Honestly, the player barely has opportunities to have a good Steel type anyway, and we could just leave it as an "expert" type with a nice advantage if the player works to get it.
Bruno: Hitmontop really needs to be here to represent Johto! It's good enough to replace Hitmonlee with a similar moveset. Poliwrath could get back its Hypnosis + Dynamic Punch combo even if it's lame, at least for diversity. Steelix and Machamp are great, loved them.
Karen: Umbreon should be the ultimate staller here, so again I vouch for Protect; Psychic just doesn't have much to offer. All the others are good, nice work!
Lance: I don't see how Flail does anything to Gyarados at this point, it really craves for a more offensive move, even if it's just DragonBreath, at least to pretend it's a Dragon. Dragonite could have the Miracle Berry, it would work as a counter if the main strategy used for the player was to inflict stats ailments; and if it isn't, it will be confused after Outrage anyway. I'd even go for Hyper Beam instead of Thunderbolt, to be honest, gotta show its power. But Lapras... I don't know. I can see you love Lapras so I'm not going to comment much, I just don't see a good replacement lol
These two videos were fun to watch/listen to! I can't wait to see other Gens if you do that.
In gen 2 OU machamp uses fire blast instead of fire punch since it just does way more damage maybe it could considered here too
Yep. No physical/special split here.
Given that Tyranitar is based on a Kaiju I feel like it'd be thematically consistent for Lance to have it. You encounter Lance with his Dragonite in the story, and if you come from the anime or Gen 1 it's consistent and no surprise. I'd probably have Dragonite as 5th, with Tyranitar as 6th to give the sense of seeing something new and very powerful as you get to the end of the E4 & Champion fights.
Lapras is an interesting pick for Lance; I think I'd have gone for Tyranitar instead - Rock Slide, Crunch, Earthquake, Fire Blast or something.
Gives intrigue as it will be a new Pokemon not seen before by the player and could stand out quite prominently.
Yea on Meganium! I think it's a little sad when other trainers re-use Gym Leader aces (Poliwrath, Kingdra)
you're right scizor gets way outsped by heracross, tho it can get quick attack at least
If Karen the dark user can have a vileplume with no dark moves then I guess Koga could have a steel bug with no poison moves.
The elite 4 in black and white are in the level 40's and there's hardly any post game. Plus for a game with 156 new Pokemon to choose from, there's not actually that much variety throughout the game.
Commenting to boost! The editing on these are bomb, major props for putting out high effort Pokémon content🫡
Appreciate it, yeah I was grinding 2 weeks spending most of my spare time on this. The first video took a month to make but with this video the process was a lot more streamlined! Definitely gonna need a little break and mix up my next few vids to be different Pokemon content
I like all of these teams. Looking forward to seeing what you tackle next!
Someone needs to make a GSC rom with the move sets you gave to the gym leaders and elite four.
I would let Koga keep at least one mon with either minimize or double team though, really fits his theme... maybe on muk (over body slam) or crobat (over bite), or on both
Crazy how he took out rain dance on gyarados but it would be much scarier with the two STAB surfers
Great video again man! Cant wait for the next!
You should do this with every gen honestly, those vids are really enjoyable !!
I think you're doing a disservice by giving Koga so many offensive moves and less status moves, it doesn't really mesh with his theme of "not only using brute force". Also, Bruno needs a Heracross.
One thing that could help the Gyarados is letting it have Hidden Power Flying
Bc flying is physical, HP Flying would provide Gyarados an actual move to click, and STAB no less
Will: Giirafarig, Espeon, Slowking, Wobbuffet (who can be one of the NASTIEST Pokémon in the game), Xatu
Koga: Ariados, Qwilfish, Muk, Weezing, Crobat
Bruno: Hitmontop, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Heracross, Machamp
Karen: Sneasel, Murkrow, Umbreon, Houndoom, Tyranitar
Lance: Dragonair, Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Charizard, Kingdra, Dragonite
Great video my guy. A significant improvement.
Yo thanks James, gonna keep on doing my best to improve with each and every vid!
The whole pokeball being on an invisible string might not even be a lie considering Meoscarada's pokemon data.
I remember as a kid i always played like the rival, never caring for weak pokemon and whatnot. always laughed when they say things such as going about training the wrong way and that i myself have done it the right way caring and trusting 😂😂😂
Imo they should make a new old gen style game with massive size upgrades to the map and pokemon list size, more options for trade evolutions and trade item ones aswell. I can dream 😅
3:30 “Will has no shortage of psychic offense” 😂 that’s what you get from a psychic based elite four member
The gimmick with gold and silver was team rocket used the radio station to force pokemon to evolve
My Rosters for them:
Will: Espeon, Exeggutor, Slowking, Girafarig, Xatu (You hit the nail on the head. Just give us more battles with Eusine so Hypno gets a time to shine)
Koga: Venomoth, Forretress, Weezing, Muk, Crobat
Bruno: Hitmontop, Hitmonchan, Hitmonlee, Steelix, Machamp (I want to keep the Hitmon trio together, and evolving Onix makes the most sense for a change)
Karen: Umbreon, Misdreavus, Murkrow, Gengar, Houndoom ("Strong Pokémon (Houndoom, Gengar). Weak Pokémon (Misdreavus, Murkrow). That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites (Umbreon).")
Lance: Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Charizard, Feraligatr, Tyranitar, Dragonite