Hey all! Really hope you all enjoy this video; after two non-analytical videos in a row I thought it would be nice to return to my “Infrastructure Investigation” series. Some things I wanna address that didn’t make it into the video: - My dog was barking a LOT while I was recording the video. In hindsight, I probably should have waited for her to stop barking...but I guess I’m lazy... - Super excited about learning how to properly highlight text in Adobe Premiere Pro! Looks so much more professional than me simply highlighting the text with my cursor while screen-recording as I did before this video lol. - I tried to be as impartial and fair in this video as possible. Hopefully you come away from this video able to make up your own mind on the Sydney Metro West project. Ultimately, though...yes, my opinion probably is that stations in Lilyfield, Newington and Camellia should have been built, but it is likely too late for that to be done now. - My original idea for this video was to suggest the Sydney Metro West take a very different route, via the Victoria Road corridor. (Check out this excellent proposal by Cuachon Rail Network: ruclips.net/video/3t5Nh1OxdBY/видео.html. He’s one of my subscribers actually, seeing me give him a shout might be a surprise for him!) Personally, my own proposal would have had stations located in Pyrmont, The Bays, Rozelle, Drummoyne, Gladesville and Ryde, interchanging with the T9 Line at West Ryde, before continuing west with stations at Melrose Park, Ermington, Rydalmere and Camellia, and then finally arriving in Parramatta. This is a very important corridor that I feel suffers due to the lack of heavy rail access, and I think it’s a shame that the Sydney Metro West isn’t being built along this corridor. But on the other hand, this is a rather indirect route passing through already well-established areas, so it is far from inexplicable that the line isn’t being built here. I’m really hoping to make a video on this Victoria Road Rail Line one day, and why no rail access exists along this important corridor. - I teased in my 1000 Subscriber Video that I was going to be making a video about a lost railway in Sydney’s west after my Denistone video, but I kinda just never did haha. Anyways, planning for that to be my next video assuming everything goes to plan. I’m really enjoying making content about “lost” infrastructure. I’ve been watching videos by the channel Auto Shenanigans, who cover abandoned roads and secrets of motorways in Britain. Such fascinating content, stuff I think even the infrastructure-uninterested could find interesting. Luckily, Sydney has no shortage of unbuilt roads which I’m excited to make videos about. On that note, I’ve already got ideas for a motorway just outside of Sydney which WAS built...but was bypassed not long after, making it essentially an abandoned motorway. I’ve been fascinated about it ever since I was a kid. Time-permitting, that will probably be the video after my lost railway video! Stay tuned!
I do appreciate your impartiality. I tend to be a bit ranty about the NSW Government in my comments on RM Transit's videos, especially considering it's always such a relief to be in Sydney each summer, after spending most of the year in the US, where transport is a joke. 😏 I've left other comments with topic suggestions, and finally subscribed. All the best with the channel, and thanks for the work you do.
Genuinely one of your best videos yet. I feel like you're working out your style, editing, and narrative. I'm a nerd who'll read the actual TfNSW docs but you're spinning those details in a fun and engaging way. Keep it up!
Hey, I think you've probably already found it; I've posted this elsewhere, but myself and another poster here have written to the shadow transport minister. It may be worth sending a similar e-mail. I can send you part of what I've wrote.
The decision not to build a metro station at Camellia is extraordinary & not only because of the potential development opportunities it provides. It would interchange with the Parramatta Light Rail so it would effectively provide Carlingford residents with direct way to travel into the City. It also is only a few hundreds metres walk (or one light rail stop) to Rydalmere with a Western Sydney University campus & an industrial area which is also planned for development.
They wont build and should not build anything at Camellia the ground there is heavily contaminated. At the back of Camellia there use to be the Shell fuel refinery at Clyde. There is still two major fuel storage depots at Camellia and not to mention all the other industries that have been located there in the past, way before anybody cared about the environment and what hazards they were burying? I bet the Government has done thorough soil testing and don't want to deal with the nightmare they found?
@@oufukubinta yeah and Carlingford-Dundas commuters would only have to sit on the tram for a further 5 minutes then they get a direct transfer to the Metro as the tram stop goes right next to the Metro entrance. The difficulty in cleaning up contamination really is not worth it, the Metro West is already an expensive project and adding another billion dollars just to clean up a station location (look at Barangaroo) then another 100m for the station around which you couldnt do much development anyway would be nuts.
Well done mate. As somebody who works in the transport planning space, it's really nice to see you putting out accessible and informative videos for the world. Great stuff.
one Metro section that doesn't make sense is the Glenfield-Leppington section, if the existing South West Rail Link (which is the newest line on the network being opened in 2015) is extended to the airport with heavy rail instead of Metro, it could provide an easier no transfer journey all the way to the city, but knowing the NSW government wanting to make every single new line Metro, they're just converting a line less than a decade old again to Metro (like the Epping-Chatswood Link) then people coming from the new airport heading to Sydney would have to change at either St Marys or Glenfield which just keeps leaving major unnecessary gaps in the network.
As a SWRL commuter, I like the metro but I do agree with you. Having the SWRL just being relatively new and then converted to a metro is a slap in the budget. I would rather like to see the line as a seamless route between Nancy-Bird Walton and Kingsford Smith Airports more like a 'new T8' route Edit: I might hv changed my opinions on potential conversion of the SWRL. I honestly don't really care if the metro does replace the existing Sydney Trains arrangement of this segment of the T2/T5. While it does seem a waste, at least the conversion costs aren't necessarily gonna be as high w previous projects like Bankstown levels of conversion since its really just 3 stations (unless they decide to build a separate tunnelled metro which is unlikely). This would be viable if Glenfield would hv some form of metro connection to the city like Bankstown via Liverpool or smth. If the business case does however recommend to extend the existing T2/T5, at least then implement the T8 to new Airport via Leppington.
So absolutely true. Metro coming into WSA from the north connecting to the suburban train and metro system and trains coming in from the south providing an express link to the CBD makes so kuch sense it hurts. It is obvioys to us why can't the politicians and transport planners see it? I don't like to say it but corruption seems to be only answer.
Brilliant and well presented video. You have really nailed some key points. I live in Castle Hill not far from the Northwest Metro station. It is fantastic and is admired by all those who ride on it. Yes reliably every 3-4 minutes during busy times and around 10 minutes during off peak. The great thing is the large distance you can so quickly travel e.g. Castle Hill to Epping main line station is 8 minutes. This new Metro being able to get from Sydney CBD to Parramatta in 20 minutes ...fantastic! Your highlight of the North Strathfield Station and it's links between the main lines was 100% correct. Thank You for your great work.
Agreed with the Camellia area. There was an excellent opportunity to interchange with the upcoming light rail station, but shortsightedness and a desperate goal to funnel inner-city residents to Parramatta as quickly as possible meant suburbs around parramatta were ignored. But what’s the point of a metro system that doesn’t allow easy access? Will people really use it if they have to drive 5km just to get to a station?
Agree with you Cam. Camellia MUST have a station. The light rail won’t work as it forces people to take an added 25 minutes getting into the CBD via Parramatta and a 5 min walk to the station. Dumb idea. Camellia is the obvious choice for a station. I heard that MPs in Sydney’s west didn’t want ANY stations between the CBD and Parramatta originally. Pure selfishness and stupidity. I wonder if the creator of this video will write to MPs to adjust this plan?
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
Parramatta station isn’t an interchange. The metro station is like a whole 2-3 blocks away from the existing station (and was purposefully designed that way). Westmead is the interchange for metro west/T1 western line
@@jack2453 well… have u been to Parra station in the peak tho? They didn’t make it an interchange because of how crowded it is + not as necessary. Those wanting to interchange simply do so at Westmead as the same services offered at Parra are offered there too.
@@aussiesorcerer791 Er... Yes. I've been to Parramatta, and also to London Victoria, Paris Gare du Nord, Tokyo Shinagawa - and Sydney Central for that matter. Don't believe the lies that the NSW rail planners tell you about what is and isn't possible. (Also... which particular trips do you think people will be taking when they're transferring at Westmead? Anyone coming from the west headed to the CBD or just about anywhere else in Greater Sydney would be better of staying on the T1 than spending 10 minutes changing at Westmead and another 10 minutes changing at Hunter Street to get where they want to go.)
Although it's not obvious, the Light Rail does run through Leichardt and Liliyfield on its perimeter. Unfortunately it's slower than buses for getting into the city. It's actually better as a way to get to Dulwich Hill and switch to the Bankstown line. This area really could use some redevelopment, especially that Parramatta road stretch.
I think the challenge here is you are primarily trying to give relief to the Parramatta - City express line, so you've got to make it quick enough to encourage those coming from the West to transfer at Westmead. It's far more equivalent to a Crossrail or Paris RER than the NorthWest, City and SouthWest Metro, although even that has large gaps in places.
Sydney Metro (in contrast to extending the existing network) is primarily an ideological objective to overcome the rail unions and move to a fully privatised public transport system in Sydney. It is consistent with the creation of TAHE, redevelopment of transport land for private development, privatising Sydney's bus and ferry networks. The Sydney Metro corridor should instead have accommodated faster intercity services from the Blue Mountains and beyond and from the future airport, meeting the Govt's objectives of providing a 20 min connection between the City and Parramatta. This would have also freed up space on the existing T1/T2/T9 corridors. A better metro service between the two CBDs would have been under Victoria Road. It's also unsuitable to have less seating capacity on long distances like the metro lines. Can you imagine having to stand all the way from Bella Vista to Central station, or when you've got luggage from Western Sydney airport to Sydney CBD? Its also a missed opportunity to provide a direct connection between the two airports. There could have been a circumferential line from the northwest, through the city to Sydney airport, out to the Western Sydney airport and to the northwest. Oh and the Carlingford Line should have stayed heavy rail with an underground connection to Epping.
"Sydney Metro (in contrast to extending the existing network) is primarily an ideological objective to overcome the rail unions and move to a fully privatised public transport system in Sydney." If this is true then the Metro would be a truely amazing initiative. Rail Unions are thugs holding the Sydney Trains and commuters to hostage to their own interests. The sooner we can ditch them the better.
These stations can be built. They just need to build the line with 4 tracks and have express trains that can provide the fast access to / from Parramatta.
I wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about bringing in those two stops, and think that you should too. If you're gonna write to Jo Haylen (and you should), whilst you're at it tell her bring the OPAL Card to regional NSW. There is no reason why Broken Hill, or Cooma, or Grafton, or Armidale, or Coffs Harbour, or Mudgee, or Dubbo, or Orange, or Wagga Wagga, or Bathurst, or Lismore or... shouldn't have the OPAL Card. Albury, Tweed Heads and Queanbeyan may be difficult, because of the border, but beyond that, they should
If the Parramatta Light Rail can buy contaminated land for a depot at double the price from some scummy real estate agent, then the metro can easily build a station at Camellia. Plus, it could easily link up with Rosehill racecourse, and would help a lot with congestion on race days.
What they'd be better of doing is building a express tunnel between Parramatta and Sydney with one station at Strathfield, which would convey trains from Penrith and the Blue Mountains. The big cost of underground railways is the stations. This would reduce the running time to about 45 minutes, Penrith to City.
What i think they should have done is to build 4x tracks underground (2x pairs for the double deckers and 2x pairs for the metro all stops). With the double decker tracks, the only station that serves it should be olympic park (during event days/peak hour maybe) and one other station (maybe north stratty or burwood north) along the government planned metro route. Its will serve many of the Pernrith/Richmond/BM lines going all stations from whatever terminus on the line (or some skipping stops on the line), then its will merge into a dugout at ether westmead or parra area to go underneath on the express tracks. Then after its go into the express tracks, its only stop will be westmead, parra, olympic park, stratta north or burwood north and terminate at hunter street as per current plans.... Then they can ether add more all stops trains along the current T1 corridor between westmead/parra and CBD or the gov can add more T2 or T9 services using the middle lines and also with the BM lines using the underground, there should be more reasons to expand the CCN line service and even the BM lines. As for the metro part, there should be double the stops added (eg westmead, parra, rosehill or camlliea, silverwater or newington, SOP, DFO or bicentinal park, north stratty, north burwood, five dock, lilyfield, the bays, pyrmont and hunter st. Then its should have allocations to be extended into the southern eastern suburbs. Sure its would have costed double to come up with this idea, but its would be helpful and with at least 60+ trains per hour during peak from westmead/parra to cbd, its sounds like an idea.
The other benefit of fewer stations is it make the trip more attractive to people living west of north mead.Places like Lilyfield & north Leichhardt have frequent light rail & the 437 bus is a very quick trip from The QVB(though T/hall station will become overcrowded in the future) & lastly on the main west line you do have express train from Lidcombe,Strathfield & Burwood which I regularly use successfully if I’m heading north for quicker trip.
A station near the Newington Business Park would have catered to not only Newington, but also Wentworth Point and East side of Silverwater which is 70% industrial. I know people who work in Silverwater take the car because there's no good bus connectivity in that area. A Metro station accessible to these 2 and a half suburb would have alleviated the congestion problem 4-6PM everyday there .
I believe they're lobbying for a light rail connection to Wentworth Point? I'm not sure if that's been finalised but the congestion around Wentworth Point/ Newington is terrible. There should have been a Hill Rd exit on the M4 to funnel cars off that DFO roundabout junction. Successive governments are horrible at planning.
@@cr0atennis DFO reminds me - Sydney Olympic Park nearby is arguably one of the best place to work with lots of open spaces, parks nearby for lunchtime activity. But it is starving of rent because of acceccibility issue there. Just 1 train shuttles to Lidcombe when none of the fast train stop at Lidcombe. Car access through the Silverwater road and the nightmarish DFO roundabout takes patience of a chess player. Sydney Olympic Park is another missed opportunity.
@@Subh8081 I agree with you. The Sydney Olympic Park precinct is heavily underutilised which is a real shame. I stayed there in 2017 for an event, and it was quite dead. Considering that the area was originally developed for the 2000 Olympics, it has the scope to have greater activation on a more regular basis. The Olympic Park precinct has the potential to become a greater hub than it is currently without becoming overly dense to detract from the more relaxed atmosphere. Even explaining to a colleague of mine directions to access the area from a hotel in the CBD was needlessly complicated and eventually they opted to take a cab and charge it off. There needs to at least be a high frequency dedicated bus service from Strathfield to Olympic Park to improve connectivity. The Brisbane Busways are a great example of how to implement this. Buses don't sound like a speedy mode of transport, though with dedicated busways, people can reach Brisbane CBD from the outer stations 20km away in under 25 mins. They can also reach the inner city (5km from CBD) bus stations within 10 mins.
@@mitchgranata573 Strathfield to Olympic Park bus is there, but low frequency and slow due to immense pressure on the road due to other vehicles especially in the office hours. I worked in an office in the Olympic Park a few years back. While I enjoyed the facilities there, the commute was horrible. I wish for a metro stop there or at least the light rail extention, or at least the Olympic Park shuttle train to go to Parramatta or Strathfield instead of Lidcombe to avoid one extra change coming out of a fast train.
I don't understand why they keep creating new stations in the CBD. Hunter Street is going to be such a pain to interchange with. Why not connect to Central, Martin Place, Town Hall or Barangaroo?
Yes why you would spend all this money and build only six stations between Parramatta and the CBD and essentially duplicate the mainline? And the route and placement of stations is very strange. A station at Drummoyne under Victoria Road by sending the tunnel north-east after Five Dock would have been really useful as well as running the line down the Balmain peninsula before heading off south to Pyrmont. I think our planners need to visit Beijing to see what a really great metro system looks like.
@@sandylanceley3860 Not to defend all the half-arsed stop go plans of the previous government... but faster longer trains, better signalling etc would have been a lot cheaper.
Bro, I am very glad that I found your video and channel. I am studying regional and town planning at the University of Queensland and doing an urban renewal project for the course, and I learn so much from this video. Can I also ask you to do a video on the Queensland rail line or Brisbane? Thank you!
Great video explains a lot. I'm guessing the strict 20 minute rule is partly to create a time saving enough to convince Western line passengers west of Westmead to transfer onto the metro (as well as increasing Parra's attractiveness to business). The gripe I've always had about the metro west project since is conception though, is why did they not choose the VICTORIA ROAD corridor? Maybe slightly longer travel times, and they wanted to serve Olympic park? The current alignment runs so close to the existing Western line it almost duplicates it, whereas a Victoria road alignment would have opened up an entire corridor currently not served by any mass transit, to rail.
I totally agree!!! Many areas with no rapid transit access will be served like Ermington, Melrose Park, Gladesville, Hunters Hill, Rydalmere (now) and most importantly Top Ryde
@@sandylanceley3860 If that's the case, then it would be better if the new metro was a alternate local service. Upgrading T1 would be more effective and a better use of resources.
@@HenryMidfields Maybe, but the Metro West is a combination of factors. The quick CBD to Parra link, the inclusion of Sydney Olympic Park, the eventual extension to the western Sydney airport via parramatta. With limited resources I guess compromises had to be made.
@@sandylanceley3860 I wouldn't mind what the story was for some of the decision-making in the Government and whether of what kind of alternatives were looked at.
Good explanation as to why stations are and aren't build. As you know the cost of building stations is quite high, it would be good to see a cost comparison between the cost of stations and the cost of the tunnels
Great video as always Sharath...and your subscriber base is growing very nicely (I remember not too long ago reaching the thousand subs point)...showing that your videos are making their mark, and opening converstaion about the future of this great city...well sometimes great albeit for traffic 😂😂...but all jokes aside, the overall Metro system and its chosen corridors...for whatever the Govt's reasons...will always be open to contention...why/why not...constructability as you've pointed out be a major cost driver...is understandable and I think an underrated point mant take onboard...it's easier to inconveneince a few than the masses and to justify the cost for the few. The Westmead end of the line for now is a wise idea, large medical hub, already medium/high density through much of the area, and a link to the current bus transit way fills the gap towards the NW metro and lower part of the Hills District. As many of Sydney's areas age as well, it will be more likely to house more and more medium.high density developments, as there are huge tracts of land with single dwellings that I'm sure developers would love to get their hands on...allowing for even more Metro routes into the future...we shall see!!!! Having the existing heavy rail with it's express and snail pace services will cater to the many along these lines as they have for ages...and evidence of more recent higher density housing construction along these routes is proof enough to your densification question...makes perfect sense. Keep up the great work mate...as there is a lot to enjoy about your videos of not just the future plans of Sydney, but the older forgotten "future of Sydney" plans from many years ago...all of them extremely well researched, and presented in a non biased and commonsense approach...very well done...always looking forward to your next installment 😁😁😁😁
I find the entire Sydney Metro West project confusing and bizarre, it just sounds like a napkin idea that came to fruition. Yes the lack of stations is definitely one thing, and the idea of building suburbs up around transit stations definitely a great idea, but the whole goal of a 20ish minute journey doesn't make sense, with Blue Mountains line trains from Parramatta to Central only taking about 25 minutes. Also the lack of connectivity in the centre of Sydney, which yes is a very difficult place to build in, will ultimately for me, make it a missed opportunity.
thanks for video - you need another map showing relationship between stations, non-stations and party-held electorates, as this correlation is well-established in so many other areas of funding
I think you're touching on an important thing here - there are some complex engineering and environmental challenges that can't be overlooked when embarking on these projects. I think we need to change our mentality to accept multi-modal transportation. For example, I don't see why there couldn't be short shuttle bus routes to ferry commuters from areas like Newington and Wentworth point the short distance to Olympic Park to connect with the metro there. Same goes for connecting interchanges. It would make sense to have fast links between major nodes, and slower, shorter routes to connect stations with lower density. Keep up the good work! Loving the videos!
Nice video - one point - I wouldn't write off North Strathfield as 'just' an interchange. Even though parts of the suburb are relatively low density, there are a bunch of high density apartments either being built or already in existence just on Parramatta road. If they re-open the pedestrian bridge at Ismay Reserve over Powells Creek , many residents would have excellent access to the new station, and thus both CBDs.
I’m from Perth and to me, the large gaps between stations make total sense. In Perth, our new railways are built on that concept - a minimum of about 2.5 km between stations and an average of around 3-4 km or so. As a result of this and relatively straight rail alignments, we get much faster speeds than Sydney - trains travelling at 130 km/h regularly overtake cars on the freeway (our new railways are mostly in freeway medians to avoid tunnelling costs), and we manage to make a 70.1 km trip from Perth to Mandurah in 51 minutes, including stopping at all stations. When I first visited Sydney, I was struck by how slow and inefficient the trains seemed to be - double-story increases dwell times, the guard position seemed unnecessary, and the trains accelerated slowly and never reached any sizeable speeds - so I think it’s great the Metro is taking a different direction. As for the problem of how we serve suburbs that aren’t particularly near the distantly spaced stations, we do so using a combination of intricate feeder bus networks and various sizes of “park and ride” car parks at most stations outside the CBD. I think it works very well for our purpose of “getting quickly into the city”.
well done As somebody who works in the transport planning space, it's really nice to see you putting out accessible and informative videos for the world. Great stuff.
Great video, and so many changes since I lived there. I lived in the Parramatta area, and even in the late 70's/early 80's there was talk about decentralisation (it was a big thing with the NSW Labor Party). The problem back then was planning permissions. There was no way a local council would permit a high rise office building to be built outside of the CBD, and yet the State Government wanted people to decentralise. It's all very well having a 20 minute train from the CBD to Parramatta, but how many people reside in the CBD and will want to commute to Parramatta? I think very few, and so additional stations along the way of the new line will discourage car use or even discourage people travelling to the existing stations, reducing congestion. The 20 minute commute between the CBD and Parramatta sounds good, but in reality very few will benefit from this, because demand from the two centres will be limited.
The seven km between Olympic Park and Parramatta will be served by buses and trams. There is no need to include more stations in this area. As for between Pyrmont and The Bays, most of this run is under water. It's a bit hard to put stations here. Sydney Metro is not a heavy rail service. Sydney Trains is heavy rail. Sydney Metro is metro rail, a separate class of rail between light and heavy rail. One other thing - if more stations are put in, the travel time between Sydney and Parramatta will increase and this will take the shine off the main advantage of this new line.
Thank you. Very informative. I have not seen a video from you, or indeed, a mention of Sydney's other transport service - the ferries on the Parramatta River. In my community, there is a belief that developers with sites along the river are "enthusiastic" about "30 minutes to the City." That said, the report by Cardno back in about 2011 identified $30M in foreshore and environmental damage, which the ferries had already caused.
The land around Camellia is really contaminated. Costs for remeidation would probably cost 30% of the entire project. Residential can't also be built there due to the contaminated land being too contaminated for any housing to take place.
Yep. Think that's the issue. It's not just minor contamination. It's the trifecta of all the really bad stuff - Chromium ,Chlorinated hydrocarbons, Asbestos. And questionable whether it will ever be viable for residential.
Can you look into the transfers? There are three L1 stations at Pyrmont; will the Western metro connect to any of them, or is it going to be another ridiculous situation like the L1 and T1/T2 at Lewisham? Any plans for a Victoria Road bus interchange at The Bays, since they seem to have missed the opportunity for an L1 interchange there? What's North Strathfield going to be like? A real interchange station, or another half-arsed, frustrating, poorly timed connection like L1/T3 in Dulwich Hill, that will drive people back into their cars? Thanks!
3 additional stations, Lilyfield, Silverwater Rd, Rosehill. It would add 7.5 minutes to journey, 30 minutes is still very acceptable to Hunter St, it's nearly 40 minutes to this location on any Western Line. Lilyfield would need to be located in the Leichardt oval area, would require lifts lieu escalators and stairs would be 350 metres from the LR, however this isn't a problem relatively low capacity needed. Passengers would feed into this station from the LR, a dedicated underground walkway could be built from the LR level to a concourse. Silverwater is located on a major road so station traffic can be added via buses, Newington has significant high density in the near vicinity, the industrial areas adjacent can be redeveloped. Rosehill is on a direct line to the railway , Camelia isn't along the route. The racecourse land could be opened for development with racing relocated to a new Hawkesbury racecourse development. The rail stabling and repair facility moved to the old oil refinery site, and the proposed stabling site also redeveloped for housing. This project not well thought out, the 20 minute shuttle idea is absurd, nobody is going to get off a western line service walk to the metro to get to the city 10 minutes quicker. Far too much money is being thrown at Hunter St, St James would allow better redevelopment of the Market St and more westerly areas of the city and allow easy interchange with the circle with the circle upgrading capacity to 24 trains per hour. After building at St James, Market St and St James Rd would become traffic free malls.
I feel like you are making the problem sound far bigger than it really is. If the light rail is build correctly, I don't see a reason why it should take more than ten minutes from Camellia to Parramatta, it's less than two kilometers as the crow flies. And if you claim, that an extra ten minutes wouldn't matter on the line overall (which I don't agree with, 20 or 30 minutes is a massive difference for public transport), then surely it isn't that much of a problem for the future passengers to take 10 minutes on LR to Parramatta and then 20 minutes to Sydney.
Well you are forgetting the general principle of planners and governments is to make public transport as inconvenient and unusable as possible because they never use it themselves.
Every time construction crews disturb Camellia it causes fish die offs in the Parramatta river, Camelia is more contaminated than the spiral mounds at olympic park, it'd be an environmental disaster if more gets dug up, I worry about the asbestos mounds at the old james hardie site. the top 60cm of soil is heavily contaminated and what's under is soaked with doixins so its best that no more construction projects happen in the area, I also hate to imagiine the future health disasters that will arise after that entire industrial area gets re zoned to residential.
Devil’s advocate here, when it is extended to the airport it needs to have a credible time to the city centre, put too many stations in the stretch from the city to parra, it negates the benefit for the metro connecting the airport, parra and the CBD
Interested in your input about escooters. NSW has banned them, while half of Australian states have legalised them. I think they would be a great new addition to our transport options, to reduce the number of cars on the road.
The one major question I have is why couldn’t the new metro line for Parramatta be built underneath the existing Parramatta Station? Surely with the right expertise, planning, surveying and architecture it could’ve been done in an efficient, safe way. It’s hardly convenient to have to get off at the existing Parramatta Station and have to do the five to ten minute walk to the new metro station in order to travel on it. Plus there’s a lot of businesses this construction work has affected. Some of those businesses had to close and they ain’t gonna come back. And not all of the people who were employed by those businesses will ever find work again. Thus building the new metro line ( And yes up to a certain point the light rail) has placed some people on Centrelink payments for the rest of their lives. Which ain’t good in anybody’s book or opinion. Plus there’s the constant noise of construction work that’s been going on for years in and around Parramatta and Harris Park. And we people who have been living in these suburbs for years now, deserve a break from the constant noise of construction. We’re Really wanting the peace and quiet we once had. Not the never ending noise from construction going on. There comes a time when enough is enough. So when You point out about all the people and suburbs that aren’t getting the metro line and stations, the question should be just how much noise, inconvenience are the people in those places willing to take or make sacrifices for? And maybe the answer could be they may not want the metro line because of the constant noise, inconvenience, temporary traffic changes ect……… ⚛️☮️ 🚇 🌏
they can have extra lines by stations so trains can pass each other and still serve all centers of population. It should never be to late when you are building something that could totally change the lives of beings and or take the status quo and know you have a project that as it stands may be an improvement but when you see the potential to do something totally revolutionary that could set the foundation higher than any espected
I disagree with your statement about Camilla, the flood risk and ground contamination would have very high costs on the project. Old industrial sites are prone to this, and it is a big effort to clean up contaminated grounds. Given its so close to Paramatta anyway, as you pointed out, the ability to walk, bus or tram it is enough.
Fair point, but it is much better value for money to deal with contamination etc in the context of a major multi-purpose development than as single developments, and especially low density developments.
@@HenryMidfields yeah when you look at all the costs and spending it's a matter of when not if and it can't all be done at once. And the fact is the benefit doesn't match the cost and this is before the real costs emerge during construction.
I have to disagree with camellia the place has had a refinery there since 1925 it’s probably too contaminated for residential development and best off being an industrial zone. Also great video and I agree with most of your points exept camellia.
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
@@HenryMidfields Go for it. Even if they have started construction, it would be so preliminary that it would be an easy fix. If enough people right to her, I'm sure she'll cave under people pressure
I think (as a T9 resident funnily enough) the thing I thought was most off about this line was that it interchanged through Nth Strathfield over Strathfield. Considering the stations aren’t super far apart and Strathfield interchanges with multiple lines whilst Nth Strathfield interchanges T9 only I thought it was a bit of an odd choice. My only thought on why this is is that they want to develop Nth Strathfield a bit more while Strathfield is already quite a built up area?
Thank you! The lack of a connection between the Parramatta Light Rail and the metro seems like madness to me, especially since it lacks a connection to Epping. For each of the 10,000s of people along the PLR corridor who commute towards the city, such a connection would save nearly 20 minutes itself, and I wouldn't mind it taking 23 minutes to get between the City and Parramatta if it reduces car commuters in that corridor. 'Engineering challenges' also seems a cop-out, given all the challenges the government has overcome to build road tunnels everywhere. I don't think they're as committed to public transport as they like to say, especially given how half-arse some PT projects have been, such as the L1 to Dulwich Hill, and its terrible connections to the T1 and T3. I stated these concerns during the comment period, and asked exactly what the engineering challenges are, but didn't really get a satisfactory answer. It sounds like you were able to get more details, but reached a similar conclusion.
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
As Parramatta station is too small for a Sydney to Melbourne 700 km/h SC maglev station I suggest they build Parrahub ASAP as this would also provide much housing for older people to relocate with all services. This would be done with passing stations at Canberra and Albury in a single 11 psi tunnel and to make it economically viable it needs an overnight container train to reduce daytime fares below planes.
If you look at rouse hill, apartments are some of the worst overvaluations in Australia. It was in the top 10 in the country, yet they are only increasing development without investing in infrastructure...e.g. there is a community centre with four exercise equipment and single pool to accommodate at least 30,000 people. Expand that out with new development it only has a small-medium sized shopping centre to accommodate 100,000+ people.
Camellia is a definite need for a station, and extending to La Perouse is logical. But why no mention of a line to Mona Vale? It is a glaring mistake that the north east of Sydney is not served by rail.
i think there are a lot of issues with metro west. there are a number of locations that should have had a station built, whilst others shouldn't. top drummoyne (near birkenhead point) would have been a significantly better location for a metro station compard to five dock. victoria road is already a busy road that has capacity, it has great potential for future development. with westconnex, some of the pressure will hopefully be removed from the road, making a station easier. there's also a lot more space to build a better interchange for buses, whilst five dock doesn't have this. i live in five dock, pretty much just next to kings bay. i have said this many times, but five dock is a poor candidate for density. without significant changes, it just isn't viable. given the state of roads already (queens road is a great example, it's a nightmare as it is and has been proposed as a location for new dense developments), and there aren't great access points. great north road i don't think has much potential as a station, since the road is relatively dead (might change with metro), and there is limited space to build an effective bus interchange, making the potential for it being used by neighbouring suburbs reduced. great north road also acts as a busy collector, funneling most traffic from five dock, abbotsford, drummoyne, etc to parramatta road, however, with a metro station, i'm sure the speed will be dropped to 40km/h, and buses will be using stops on great north road, and there will be more, making it a lot busier. this will make it a far less attractive route, meaning all traffic it currently funnels will be diverted onto lyons rd west, and then harris road in order to get to parramatta road. both of the roads mentioned are just poor, and aren't able to handle large amounts of traffic. rosebank college (school on harris road) already contributes to significant amounts of traffic here, and it will only be exemplified by diverting other traffic. i also think that services should have access to both rhodes (instead of north strathfield for t9 interchange), and wentworth point, both of which are already extremely dense locations, and the latter lacks good public transport links. extending the line from wentworth point to olympic park and then parramatta i thought would be a no-brainer, because it would be so useful for residents, who only have direct access to parramatta through the ferry, forcing transfers if they want to avoid the ferry (or if parramatta wharf gets flooded). i also think newington is a prime location for a station for similar reasons to wentworth point (it lacks density now, but has potential for it). lilyfield doesn't have a station going in because it already has light rail, which gives direct access to the city, and those that live in lilyfield are unlikely to be working in parramatta. couple things i wanted to add as a local about the line, given i think it could have been a lot better (most probable reason why its as it is is because of the 20 minute promise)
One more thing to add for Westmead, and potentially Camelia/Rydalmere (if it were to have been built) is that usership rates would be greatly improved with parking access like what’s available at Ashfield (opal card controlled parking). Many people in these lower density areas (particularly surrounding suburbs) rely on parking at stops further away on the t1 line (despite living closer to Westmead) to simply not get ticketed. I for one would happily pay a reasonable amount to park in a PT parking structure for my daily commute
The Sydney Metro isn't a Metro. In London or Paris, if a station is closed, it's generally a 5 minute walk to the next station. Look at the Metro North West section. Apart from not building the link from Tallawong to Schofields heavy rail (2km!) the distance between Cherrybrook and Epping, Epping and Macquarie University and North Ryde and Chatswood are too long. I appreciate that in some parts of the route it is impossible to build a station due to decisions made when the Epping-Chatswood line was constructed, but it doesn't seem too hard to have made it better in the first place.
at first when i saw olynpic park as a station io was like why just not have lidcombe but then i remembered it would allow for quicker access for people who live across the metro lne to acess olympic park quicker if they were going to the easter show or state of origin or the nrl grand final
The less stations the better. If you truly want to have the highest speed link BETWEEN Parramatta and the CBD, no stations is the best plan. Having no stations would make it the fastest medium between the cities. I know there will be stations, but the fewer there are the better. If you live in between, you should use current transport options.
In order to cut trip times AND have tight station spacings for optimal development, you get faster trains. For some reason even though Sydney metro trains can reach 120kmh they only run 100kmh in service. Meanwhile BART, another metro in SF, be going 130kmh
What i think they should have done is to build 4x tracks underground (2x pairs for the double deckers and 2x pairs for the metro all stops). With the double decker tracks, the only station that serves it should be olympic park (during event days/peak hour maybe) and one other station (maybe north stratty or burwood north) along the government planned metro route. Its will serve many of the Pernrith/Richmond/BM lines going all stations from whatever terminus on the line (or some skipping stops on the line), then its will merge into a dugout at ether westmead or parra area to go underneath on the express tracks. Then after its go into the express tracks, its only stop will be westmead, parra, olympic park, stratta north or burwood north and terminate at hunter street as per current plans.... Then they can ether add more all stops trains along the current T1 corridor between westmead/parra and CBD or the gov can add more T2 or T9 services using the middle lines and also with the BM lines using the underground, there should be more reasons to expand the CCN line service and even the BM lines. As for the metro part, there should be double the stops added (eg westmead, parra, rosehill or camlliea, silverwater or newington, SOP, DFO or bicentinal park, north stratty, north burwood, five dock, lilyfield, the bays, pyrmont and hunter st. Then its should have allocations to be extended into the southern eastern suburbs. Sure its would have costed double to come up with this idea, but its would be helpful and with at least 60+ trains per hour during peak from westmead/parra to cbd, its sounds like an idea. Or alternatively and probs cost a whole lot more than that (probs triple and more complaints there), is rather to snake the metro though SOP and five dock make the metro go from usual westmead, parra, WSU, rydalmere/ermington, west ryde, top ryde, gladseville, drummoyne, rozelle, the bays, pyrmont and hunter street with the same allocation allowed for a southern eastern suburb extension
One more topic suggestion, which you may have covered already-I'll have to go exploring your back catalogue: The PLR terminating at Olympic Park, instead of along the T9, as was originally proposed-does that really make sense? When they say a T9 connection isn't feasible, what are they really considering? Just current traffic volumes, or potential traffic as well? People along the T9 will obviously take the T1 to Parramatta and Westmead, but if the Olympic Park area is becoming so important, wouldn't it be worth them not having to change trains a second time to go there? (When the 'biggest timetable change in a generation' happened in 2012, it was clear they didn't realise what a pain in the arse it is to change trains. I lived in Stanmore and had a girlfriend in Sefton, and a single-seat ride became an arduous journey with two changes, and nearly doubled the length of the trip. I heard a lot of stories like that, especially for people trying to get to Westmead or Macquarie Park.) When they made that PLR decision, did they look at how many people along the southern PLR corridor _could_ commute to Eastwood, or, ahem, Epping, if they had a quick and easy connection to the T9? Or just how many people do that commute today, when it's barely feasible anyhow?
When building a metro, city councils/transport authorities should not only focus on residential or commercial areas but on industrial areas as well as this is where commuters especially drive. Hence building metro stations in these industrial areas would ease congestion and improve overall travel times, reduce pollution in local areas and in the end reduce carbon emissions. So, it is a mistake not to build a metro station in Silverwater/Newington. It would have reduced congestion on Parramatta Rd and Silverwater Rd as many commuters could have taken the metro instead of the car, and as a positive side effect, it would have also given residents in Newington good public transport access. To give a positive example of where this approach has been implemented: Barcelona has built two whole new lines - L9 & L10 - connecting the city/the metro network with the big southern industrial area of the city and also serving the harbour! The explicit purpose to build these lines was to reduce car traffic on the local road network, improve air quality and the quality of life in surrounding residential areas and encourage commuters to travel more sustainably by taking the metro and not the car. And it worked!
Hmm I've been there and it still gets very busy haha, it services both Cherrybrook and West Pennant Hills. And yes, there is future development planned.
@@BuildingBeautifully Yes busy but the thing is, everyone has to drive there because housing is far So they have to have a car to take public transport most likely. So that's not good, would be nice for high rises and amenities close to the station.
I think the problem with the alignment of the Sydney Metro West is the both the government and TfNSW have no idea how and what is the purpose of a metro system. They just assume that metro will be the future replacement of the current Sydney rail network, with their current plans for the metro eventually taking up dominance in most if not all of Sydney, and in terms of the Metro West having few stations, they seemed to be confusing metro with high speed rail, and with the type of electric gauge makeup and carriages being built, this metro line just can't be both things at the same time. Surely an additional two or three stations while achieving the 20 minute trip between Parramatta and the CBD can be possible, right? I mean, if 9 or 10 stations is the maximum, then 8 can be the right balance, say after Parramatta, you have new stations built for Camellia and Newington leading up to Olympic Park, and then the remaining five before Hunter Street. I think that would make the Metro West serve its purpose and then some.
A lot of people that work around Hunter St in the city don't live out west. There needs to be a few more stations in the CBD or make it go further east.
Great and thought-provoking video, as usual! One thing that particularly stood out to me was the apparent conflict between the first two reasons given for building this line and the third reason that was given, in conjunction with the 20 minute travel time. The goals of reducing congestion and travel time between Parra and the City are solutions to extant problems that are, themselves, due to Sydney CBD-centric patterns of commuting. If Sydney becomes a "metropolis of three cities" and people can "live and work away from Sydney CBD" then end-to-end travel time between the two centres becomes much less important than being able to efficiently get to either centre from anywhere in between. It seems to me that a solution that solves today's problems will be poorly suited to tomorrow's reality. PS: I strongly believe that industrial areas should have stations. Not only do the people who work in them deserve efficient and affordable transport to and from work but their transport costs are also part of labour costs.
As someone that worked as a labourer for two years, Industrial areas should 100% have stations. Seeing as many people who are disadvantaged tend to work in the labour force, they need PT more than anybody else - speaking from experience. I don’t drive, and everytime I missed the bus I had to at least pay a $30 uber to and from work. Late night shifts are just the worse too. If the government want to encourage people to join the labour force they need to increase transportation options. Eastern Creek especially needs better access.
I don’t understand why they don’t do two tracks in each direction. Some suburban stations could be used to get people to larger stations with interchanges and have different express lines
Maybe they just thought they already have the Parramatta light rail that will pass through Camellia, if they include Camellia, then they have to leave out another station. But it is not too late, if they want to add a station in the middle later on. They can still do it in the future.
The problem of youth - learning enough stuff fast enough. The government wanted a non-stop Parramatta-Sydney service, some MPs wants stops in their suburbs - so we got a bit of both. The Sydney Terminal Station can handle 10 services each way per hour - half of a two track through station. The Cheap solution for non-stop services is to convert the terminal station into a through station and have a second city circle loop which could include Pyrmont, Bridge St and Kings Cross - it could interchange with metro west and the ES line. A 5th and 6th non-stop track between Granville and Homebush is very cheap. We should keep platforms 1 to 3 for tourist trains which would be a siding off the new intercity through lines. By having four platforms (2 island platforms) at Express stop stations, then four tracks with two side platforms at All-stops stations, and finally four, and even 6 track corridors we can provide rapid services to everybody with service frequency kept high to reduce dwell time and wait time at stations.
Agree with you re Camelia. And the contamination problem could have been solved by going above ground like parts of the NW metro. Then the govt could have put in the basic shell of a station at Camelia now, and completed it when the area was redeveloped.
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
The site should undergo decontamination anyway in the long term. Maybe just make the alignments straight to assist any sort of retrofitting later on for the tunnels and build the rest once decontamination work is done. Retrofits shouldn't be ruled out.
Have you given enough emphasis to revenue/profit motives for station placements? Yes, the state government can recover some costs by selling land. But councils and developers have billion-dollar motives for influencing station placement. Imagine the furious lobbying going on when the station locations were being decided. And it goes without saying that huge profit motives and corruption go hand-in-hand. Was the 20-minute target just a glossy headline for media outlets and voters? Even with just seven stops, it may not be achievable in peak times. And if it can't be achieved, who will get the blame? Govenment or unions?
I feel like the Metro, at least the first stages, is just the government's attempts to union-bust. I'm not against driverless metros, but the fact that they've all gone for long routes with wide gaps between stops makes me question the government's motives. In my opinion, I believe that more medium density is a much better strategy than going for high density.
A very interesting video. It's like the Westmead end, at least, of the line is ready to go. Does that mean it's going to sit there unused for the next 8 years, or did you just mean 2030 for total completion? Densification is one of the reason I got out of Sydney. I'm happy in my little town of
Better or worse, I'm the opposite. Densification (and better PT in general) is one of the reasons I'm living in Surry Hills, it's what happens when I grew up in Tokyo lol.
I had hoped that they would build it as 4 tracks, even if only for part of the route, so they could have more stations on a 'local' line. Then they'd serve the intermediate locations and not affect the 'express' services from Westmead. 1 or 2 would have 4 platforms so you could interchange.
There are already 6 tracks most of the way between CBD and Parramatta - intelligent investment could have delivered capacity and speed (yes even 20 mjnutes) so much more cheaply than the current mess.
What Sydney needs is more over priced two bedroom apartment developments crowded around metro stations where families will have to crowd in together like it's the 1800's. The development around stations is a mirage, it's mostly apartments for single people or couples but as soon as you start a family your choices are buy an uber expensive 3 bedroom apartment or just move out to a home in the suburbs. The government's idea of development is all about maximising profit for developers is has nothing to do with providing actual real useful and affordable housing for families who let's face, are the ones who are having the kids who will be the Australians of the future
This is more of a RM Transit question, since it's so general, but is adding infill stations to metros a thing? Apart from Camellia and Silverwater, I think there are metro stations missing at Thompson's Corner and Lane Cove National Park, and probably more. Infill stations happen all the time above ground, and I recently noticed how they'd widened the platforms at some London Tube stations since I was previously there, by boring a new tunnel for trains in one direction and extending the other platform across the trackbed they originally used. But if a future government realises the lack of a station at Camellia was a mistake, could they create one? Or is the tunnel being bored too far out of the way? What about Thompson's Corner, which the line definitely does go straight under, and could be a place to interchange with Pennant Hills Road buses, or maybe even a Parramatta Light Rail link beyond Carlingford?
I've been told a West Pennant Hills station at Thomson's Corner would have been too deep; to be honest it's not too far from Cherrybrook or Pennant Hills at least. Adding infill tunnel stations is hard!! Easier if they have a station box prebuilt, like in Singapore, but hard otherwise.
@@BuildingBeautifully Deep schmeep. A couple of weeks ago I was on a metro platform in Barcelona that was probably about 80 metres underground. They just had a lot of lifts; it worked fine.
How one line takes 10 years to complete baffles me. South Africas Gautrain, with 10 stations, 84 kilometre route, was built in less than 5 years from start to finish.
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
I've come late into this discussion and although I generally support the principle of Metro West, the justification for it as a priority and the final outcome leaves a lot to be desired. The primary justifications are to relieve congestion on the T1 Western & Richmond Lines and to provide faster journey times from Parramatta to the Sydney CBD. In the case of the former, it's an outright lie, as the greatest overcrowding on T1 prior to Covid was west of Parramatta, which Metro West will do nothing to address. There is ample spare capacity on the existing T1 quad west of Parramatta to run more services to reduce overcrowding (currently 22tph including 4xBMT and 2xT5, with an inherent capacity of 40tph) , but because of the constrained rail corridor to the east towards the CBD, there are no spare paths available to reach the CBD. While Metro West certainly does significantly increase capacity from Parramatta to the CBD, it would rely on forced interchange for increased Sydney Trains' services from the west. It is not practicable to terminate more T1 services at Westmead or Parramatta in the morning peak, nor would commuters heading for destinations east of Parramatta take kindly to it when they've always enjoyed a direct service. Suggestions have been made to redirect Richmond Line services via the T5 Cumberland Line, which would be similarly unpopular. There are actually more exists at Parramatta than entries in the morning peak. Following community consultation and TfNSW own research of Opal data for future services on the remnant T3 Line after metro conversion of the Bankstown Line, there was overwhelming support for reinstatement of the direct Liverpool via Regents Park service to the CBD via the T2 Inner West Line, rather than being forced to interchange to the metro at Bankstown. There will no longer be a direct service from Liverpool to Bankstown until such time as the metro is extended, if ever. A shuttle service will be provided between Lidcombe and Bankstown. There's a lesson there for future services on the T1 Line and Metro West. A far better and less expensive solution to congestion on T1 in the short term, would be to complete sextuplication between Homebush and Granville to decouple it from T2 and utilise the spare capacity on the Main from Strathfield to Sydney Terminal, which only has 12tph in the morning peak. The sextup can be constructed mostly on the surface wholly within the existing rail corridor, with a short tunnel section between Flemington and Auburn to bypass the constrained rail corridor through Lidcombe. It would be an express line with no intermediate stations, so cheap to build. This would allow increased services from west of Parramatta/Westmead to run direct to the CBD without interchange being required. A longer term option would be to extend the express tunnel from Flemington to Strathfield and then on a straighter alignment to new underground stations at Redfern, Central (Railway Square), Town Hall West and Wynyard, as proposed for the City Relief Line from the Main at Eveleigh. The issue of relative journey times from Parramatta to the CBD is also misleading, as it doesn't define what is the actual CBD destination. Is it Hunter St or Central? Central is the primary focus of the rail network where interchange is possible to all other lines, including light rail. Under the current T1 timetable, the fastest journey time from Parramatta to Central is 25 minutes for BMT Intercity, with one stop at Strathfield, and 26 minutes for T1 Suburban, with stops at Strathfield and Redfern. It should be remembered that this is under the current timetable which was slowed down in 2005 to improve on-time running statistics. There has been no comparison with improved journey times on the existing network, not to mention frequencies, which will be achieved with the proposed digital signalling and ATO upgrades. Claims that Metro West, with an all stations service, will provide superior journey times to the CBD are misguided at best. This is where the whole concept of the current Metro West plan has fallen down. It's trying to provide different service levels on a single line, of fast journey times, while attempting to maximise its passenger catchment, which is typical of a high capacity metro service. They're oil and water. The fixation of a journey time of 20 minutes to the CBD (to where exactly?) is compromising its potential catchment, by restricting the number of stations along the route, when a similar journey time would be achievable at far less cost with the proposed upgrades to the Sydney Trains network. They have to make up their minds about what should be its primary function. To my mind, it should be to provide a rail service along a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD by maximising its catchment area with more stations, regardless of whether it satisfies developers. Don't existing inner city suburbs off the rail network , which are generally of a higher density anyway, deserve a rail service? The journey time, although still fast, should be a secondary consideration. This is why I don't regard it as being a priority, when upgrades to the existing network which can provide faster express services, should come before it. It's academic now, but I don't regard the current Metro West route as being ideal. I would have preferred the former Labor government's West Metro route from the CBD to Parramatta via the more southerly Parramatta Rd corridor through Camperdown and Leichhardt. It had more stations, including the major rail junction at Strathfield. Pyrmont and the Bays Precinct could be served by a future Victoria Rd metro line to at least Ryde on a similar alignment to the previous abandoned North West Metro proposal.
The difference between the current heavy rail and the proposed metro is none of the things said in here. The major difference is shared use as in other lines joining it and passenger trains sharing it mixed type passenger trains (express and local work) plus sharing it with freight trains. The current line could also do it in 20 minutes if it did not have to accommodate sharing with others, where as the metro wont be sharing its line with anyone else.
The gaps between stations is not only long but highly variable. This creates timetable issues and reduces total capacity. The ideal system has stations at equal spacing
I found this article from 2018 that says............ "According to the data the busiest train line in the morning is the T1 Western line with an average load of 145 per cent between 8am and 9am. It’s followed by the T1 Northern line train via Strathfield (137 per cent) and the T4 Illawarra (132 per cent)."
Congratulations!! You are a breath of fresh air on the areas you deal with; although you were naïve about Albo's HSR promise . That was just another "It is election time, so we have to propose HSR again." Leaving that aside, and I can excuse your youth for that failure to grasp political history (I was born during WWII), your input is well thought out. You are a welcome change from the many mindless "everything the government does is wrong" comments that one reads. I do agree with your thoughts about Camelia, but I don't know what the answer is given the contamination of the area. When the Government initially presented the option of a station at either Camelia or Rydalmere, the "mindless, everything the Coalition Government does is wrong" voices were convinced that the Government would choose Camelia so that "their rich developer mates" could build high rise apartments and become even richer. These people were convinced that that was the only reason the project was proceeding. They believed that the Government wasn't primarily interested in building a good rapid transit system but simply a way to enable their rich developer mates to make even more money. As I said at the beginning, you are to be congratulated. You have a good grasp of the issues and your suggestions make a great deal of sense. Well Done!
Thank you for that! I don't believe in being political in this channel...I'm young and not too politically cynical yet 😆😆😆. This channel is all about infrastructure, not politics, and I'm focusing as much on the objective reasons for choices in our infrastructure projects as much as I can, while trying to be as impartial and unbiased as possible. Thanks for noticing!
What I like about the Sydney Metro West is I will be able to get on the train at Pyrmont and go straight to Olympic Park without changing lines at Lidcombe.
Hey all! Really hope you all enjoy this video; after two non-analytical videos in a row I thought it would be nice to return to my “Infrastructure Investigation” series. Some things I wanna address that didn’t make it into the video:
- My dog was barking a LOT while I was recording the video. In hindsight, I probably should have waited for her to stop barking...but I guess I’m lazy...
- Super excited about learning how to properly highlight text in Adobe Premiere Pro! Looks so much more professional than me simply highlighting the text with my cursor while screen-recording as I did before this video lol.
- I tried to be as impartial and fair in this video as possible. Hopefully you come away from this video able to make up your own mind on the Sydney Metro West project. Ultimately, though...yes, my opinion probably is that stations in Lilyfield, Newington and Camellia should have been built, but it is likely too late for that to be done now.
- My original idea for this video was to suggest the Sydney Metro West take a very different route, via the Victoria Road corridor. (Check out this excellent proposal by Cuachon Rail Network: ruclips.net/video/3t5Nh1OxdBY/видео.html. He’s one of my subscribers actually, seeing me give him a shout might be a surprise for him!) Personally, my own proposal would have had stations located in Pyrmont, The Bays, Rozelle, Drummoyne, Gladesville and Ryde, interchanging with the T9 Line at West Ryde, before continuing west with stations at Melrose Park, Ermington, Rydalmere and Camellia, and then finally arriving in Parramatta. This is a very important corridor that I feel suffers due to the lack of heavy rail access, and I think it’s a shame that the Sydney Metro West isn’t being built along this corridor. But on the other hand, this is a rather indirect route passing through already well-established areas, so it is far from inexplicable that the line isn’t being built here. I’m really hoping to make a video on this Victoria Road Rail Line one day, and why no rail access exists along this important corridor.
- I teased in my 1000 Subscriber Video that I was going to be making a video about a lost railway in Sydney’s west after my Denistone video, but I kinda just never did haha. Anyways, planning for that to be my next video assuming everything goes to plan. I’m really enjoying making content about “lost” infrastructure. I’ve been watching videos by the channel Auto Shenanigans, who cover abandoned roads and secrets of motorways in Britain. Such fascinating content, stuff I think even the infrastructure-uninterested could find interesting. Luckily, Sydney has no shortage of unbuilt roads which I’m excited to make videos about. On that note, I’ve already got ideas for a motorway just outside of Sydney which WAS built...but was bypassed not long after, making it essentially an abandoned motorway. I’ve been fascinated about it ever since I was a kid. Time-permitting, that will probably be the video after my lost railway video! Stay tuned!
I do appreciate your impartiality. I tend to be a bit ranty about the NSW Government in my comments on RM Transit's videos, especially considering it's always such a relief to be in Sydney each summer, after spending most of the year in the US, where transport is a joke. 😏 I've left other comments with topic suggestions, and finally subscribed. All the best with the channel, and thanks for the work you do.
Genuinely one of your best videos yet. I feel like you're working out your style, editing, and narrative. I'm a nerd who'll read the actual TfNSW docs but you're spinning those details in a fun and engaging way. Keep it up!
Hey, I think you've probably already found it; I've posted this elsewhere, but myself and another poster here have written to the shadow transport minister. It may be worth sending a similar e-mail. I can send you part of what I've wrote.
The decision not to build a metro station at Camellia is extraordinary & not only because of the potential development opportunities it provides. It would interchange with the Parramatta Light Rail so it would effectively provide Carlingford residents with direct way to travel into the City. It also is only a few hundreds metres walk (or one light rail stop) to Rydalmere with a Western Sydney University campus & an industrial area which is also planned for development.
100% agreed
Instead of "construction challenges due to contamination" read "massive costs of cleaning up huuuuuge contamination".
It's enough that there's a lightrail station in Camellia IMO
They wont build and should not build anything at Camellia the ground there is heavily contaminated. At the back of Camellia there use to be the Shell fuel refinery at Clyde. There is still two major fuel storage depots at Camellia and not to mention all the other industries that have been located there in the past, way before anybody cared about the environment and what hazards they were burying? I bet the Government has done thorough soil testing and don't want to deal with the nightmare they found?
@@oufukubinta yeah and Carlingford-Dundas commuters would only have to sit on the tram for a further 5 minutes then they get a direct transfer to the Metro as the tram stop goes right next to the Metro entrance. The difficulty in cleaning up contamination really is not worth it, the Metro West is already an expensive project and adding another billion dollars just to clean up a station location (look at Barangaroo) then another 100m for the station around which you couldnt do much development anyway would be nuts.
Well done mate. As somebody who works in the transport planning space, it's really nice to see you putting out accessible and informative videos for the world. Great stuff.
one Metro section that doesn't make sense is the Glenfield-Leppington section, if the existing South West Rail Link (which is the newest line on the network being opened in 2015) is extended to the airport with heavy rail instead of Metro, it could provide an easier no transfer journey all the way to the city, but knowing the NSW government wanting to make every single new line Metro, they're just converting a line less than a decade old again to Metro (like the Epping-Chatswood Link) then people coming from the new airport heading to Sydney would have to change at either St Marys or Glenfield which just keeps leaving major unnecessary gaps in the network.
As a SWRL commuter, I like the metro but I do agree with you. Having the SWRL just being relatively new and then converted to a metro is a slap in the budget. I would rather like to see the line as a seamless route between Nancy-Bird Walton and Kingsford Smith Airports more like a 'new T8' route
Edit: I might hv changed my opinions on potential conversion of the SWRL. I honestly don't really care if the metro does replace the existing Sydney Trains arrangement of this segment of the T2/T5. While it does seem a waste, at least the conversion costs aren't necessarily gonna be as high w previous projects like Bankstown levels of conversion since its really just 3 stations (unless they decide to build a separate tunnelled metro which is unlikely). This would be viable if Glenfield would hv some form of metro connection to the city like Bankstown via Liverpool or smth. If the business case does however recommend to extend the existing T2/T5, at least then implement the T8 to new Airport via Leppington.
So absolutely true. Metro coming into WSA from the north connecting to the suburban train and metro system and trains coming in from the south providing an express link to the CBD makes so kuch sense it hurts. It is obvioys to us why can't the politicians and transport planners see it? I don't like to say it but corruption seems to be only answer.
I'd like to see any new regular passenger rail lineline this point, imo it's silly to be making all these new rail lines metro
I actually talked about that in a segment of an essay of mine: docs.google.com/document/d/1tVDSacKC3WD06u_ZysTFids40ScXZaYxN1g6lCF92Gw/edit
Surely a connect Westmead to st Mary’s via prospect needs happening
Brilliant and well presented video. You have really nailed some key points. I live in Castle Hill not far from the Northwest Metro station. It is fantastic and is admired by all those who ride on it. Yes reliably every 3-4 minutes during busy times and around 10 minutes during off peak. The great thing is the large distance you can so quickly travel e.g. Castle Hill to Epping main line station is 8 minutes. This new Metro being able to get from Sydney CBD to Parramatta in 20 minutes ...fantastic! Your highlight of the North Strathfield Station and it's links between the main lines was 100% correct. Thank You for your great work.
Thank you!!
Problem is you have to basically stand up 4 the bulk of the passengers
Agreed with the Camellia area. There was an excellent opportunity to interchange with the upcoming light rail station, but shortsightedness and a desperate goal to funnel inner-city residents to Parramatta as quickly as possible meant suburbs around parramatta were ignored.
But what’s the point of a metro system that doesn’t allow easy access? Will people really use it if they have to drive 5km just to get to a station?
Sydney Metro = Sydney Trains 2.0 with singe-deck trains
Agree with you Cam. Camellia MUST have a station. The light rail won’t work as it forces people to take an added 25 minutes getting into the CBD via Parramatta and a 5 min walk to the station. Dumb idea. Camellia is the obvious choice for a station.
I heard that MPs in Sydney’s west didn’t want ANY stations between the CBD and Parramatta originally. Pure selfishness and stupidity.
I wonder if the creator of this video will write to MPs to adjust this plan?
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
@@cityraildude I would hold your breath with Jo Haylen (NSW Shadow Minister for Transport). She voice no new opinion on Sydney transport.
@@michaelcobbin If she's elected she will. That, or they really chose the wrong person for the job.
Parramatta station isn’t an interchange. The metro station is like a whole 2-3 blocks away from the existing station (and was purposefully designed that way). Westmead is the interchange for metro west/T1 western line
Yes. The NSW governnent seems to devote itself minimising connection and convenience.
@@jack2453 well… have u been to Parra station in the peak tho? They didn’t make it an interchange because of how crowded it is + not as necessary. Those wanting to interchange simply do so at Westmead as the same services offered at Parra are offered there too.
@@aussiesorcerer791 Er... Yes. I've been to Parramatta, and also to London Victoria, Paris Gare du Nord, Tokyo Shinagawa - and Sydney Central for that matter. Don't believe the lies that the NSW rail planners tell you about what is and isn't possible. (Also... which particular trips do you think people will be taking when they're transferring at Westmead? Anyone coming from the west headed to the CBD or just about anywhere else in Greater Sydney would be better of staying on the T1 than spending 10 minutes changing at Westmead and another 10 minutes changing at Hunter Street to get where they want to go.)
@@jack2453 …. Correct. So if that’s the case, then why is not having Parra as an interchange an issue? lol
@@aussiesorcerer791 Parramatta station is also an interchange for buses. I hope there is a walkway between the metro and Parramatta station.
Although it's not obvious, the Light Rail does run through Leichardt and Liliyfield on its perimeter. Unfortunately it's slower than buses for getting into the city. It's actually better as a way to get to Dulwich Hill and switch to the Bankstown line.
This area really could use some redevelopment, especially that Parramatta road stretch.
So-called light rail is incredibly slow you're right to get to Dulwich Hill it would be quicker to take the train
I think the challenge here is you are primarily trying to give relief to the Parramatta - City express line, so you've got to make it quick enough to encourage those coming from the West to transfer at Westmead.
It's far more equivalent to a Crossrail or Paris RER than the NorthWest, City and SouthWest Metro, although even that has large gaps in places.
Sydney Metro (in contrast to extending the existing network) is primarily an ideological objective to overcome the rail unions and move to a fully privatised public transport system in Sydney. It is consistent with the creation of TAHE, redevelopment of transport land for private development, privatising Sydney's bus and ferry networks.
The Sydney Metro corridor should instead have accommodated faster intercity services from the Blue Mountains and beyond and from the future airport, meeting the Govt's objectives of providing a 20 min connection between the City and Parramatta. This would have also freed up space on the existing T1/T2/T9 corridors. A better metro service between the two CBDs would have been under Victoria Road.
It's also unsuitable to have less seating capacity on long distances like the metro lines. Can you imagine having to stand all the way from Bella Vista to Central station, or when you've got luggage from Western Sydney airport to Sydney CBD? Its also a missed opportunity to provide a direct connection between the two airports. There could have been a circumferential line from the northwest, through the city to Sydney airport, out to the Western Sydney airport and to the northwest.
Oh and the Carlingford Line should have stayed heavy rail with an underground connection to Epping.
You've opened some great talking points.
"Sydney Metro (in contrast to extending the existing network) is primarily an ideological objective to overcome the rail unions and move to a fully privatised public transport system in Sydney."
If this is true then the Metro would be a truely amazing initiative. Rail Unions are thugs holding the Sydney Trains and commuters to hostage to their own interests. The sooner we can ditch them the better.
Lack of seating on the Metro is a major problem hate to go from Parramatta to Crows Nest standing up all the way
These stations can be built. They just need to build the line with 4 tracks and have express trains that can provide the fast access to / from Parramatta.
the metro is currently in tunnels. This makes adding extra lines an incredibly labour and cost intensive prospect.
Would cost too much
I wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about bringing in those two stops, and think that you should too. If you're gonna write to Jo Haylen (and you should), whilst you're at it tell her bring the OPAL Card to regional NSW. There is no reason why Broken Hill, or Cooma, or Grafton, or Armidale, or Coffs Harbour, or Mudgee, or Dubbo, or Orange, or Wagga Wagga, or Bathurst, or Lismore or... shouldn't have the OPAL Card. Albury, Tweed Heads and Queanbeyan may be difficult, because of the border, but beyond that, they should
If the Parramatta Light Rail can buy contaminated land for a depot at double the price from some scummy real estate agent, then the metro can easily build a station at Camellia. Plus, it could easily link up with Rosehill racecourse, and would help a lot with congestion on race days.
Good advice should base an election on it with a advert starring boy Georges
Come on come on come in Cameeeeelia
What they'd be better of doing is building a express tunnel between Parramatta and Sydney with one station at Strathfield, which would convey trains from Penrith and the Blue Mountains. The big cost of underground railways is the stations. This would reduce the running time to about 45 minutes, Penrith to City.
What i think they should have done is to build 4x tracks underground (2x pairs for the double deckers and 2x pairs for the metro all stops). With the double decker tracks, the only station that serves it should be olympic park (during event days/peak hour maybe) and one other station (maybe north stratty or burwood north) along the government planned metro route.
Its will serve many of the Pernrith/Richmond/BM lines going all stations from whatever terminus on the line (or some skipping stops on the line), then its will merge into a dugout at ether westmead or parra area to go underneath on the express tracks. Then after its go into the express tracks, its only stop will be westmead, parra, olympic park, stratta north or burwood north and terminate at hunter street as per current plans.... Then they can ether add more all stops trains along the current T1 corridor between westmead/parra and CBD or the gov can add more T2 or T9 services using the middle lines and also with the BM lines using the underground, there should be more reasons to expand the CCN line service and even the BM lines.
As for the metro part, there should be double the stops added (eg westmead, parra, rosehill or camlliea, silverwater or newington, SOP, DFO or bicentinal park, north stratty, north burwood, five dock, lilyfield, the bays, pyrmont and hunter st. Then its should have allocations to be extended into the southern eastern suburbs.
Sure its would have costed double to come up with this idea, but its would be helpful and with at least 60+ trains per hour during peak from westmead/parra to cbd, its sounds like an idea.
The other benefit of fewer stations is it make the trip more attractive to people living west of north mead.Places like Lilyfield & north Leichhardt have frequent light rail & the 437 bus is a very quick trip from The QVB(though T/hall station will become overcrowded in the future) & lastly on the main west line you do have express train from Lidcombe,Strathfield & Burwood which I regularly use successfully if I’m heading north for quicker trip.
A station near the Newington Business Park would have catered to not only Newington, but also Wentworth Point and East side of Silverwater which is 70% industrial. I know people who work in Silverwater take the car because there's no good bus connectivity in that area. A Metro station accessible to these 2 and a half suburb would have alleviated the congestion problem 4-6PM everyday there .
And yet...no station. Wasted opportunity. Shame.
I believe they're lobbying for a light rail connection to Wentworth Point? I'm not sure if that's been finalised but the congestion around Wentworth Point/ Newington is terrible. There should have been a Hill Rd exit on the M4 to funnel cars off that DFO roundabout junction. Successive governments are horrible at planning.
@@cr0atennis DFO reminds me - Sydney Olympic Park nearby is arguably one of the best place to work with lots of open spaces, parks nearby for lunchtime activity. But it is starving of rent because of acceccibility issue there. Just 1 train shuttles to Lidcombe when none of the fast train stop at Lidcombe. Car access through the Silverwater road and the nightmarish DFO roundabout takes patience of a chess player. Sydney Olympic Park is another missed opportunity.
@@Subh8081 I agree with you. The Sydney Olympic Park precinct is heavily underutilised which is a real shame. I stayed there in 2017 for an event, and it was quite dead. Considering that the area was originally developed for the 2000 Olympics, it has the scope to have greater activation on a more regular basis.
The Olympic Park precinct has the potential to become a greater hub than it is currently without becoming overly dense to detract from the more relaxed atmosphere.
Even explaining to a colleague of mine directions to access the area from a hotel in the CBD was needlessly complicated and eventually they opted to take a cab and charge it off.
There needs to at least be a high frequency dedicated bus service from Strathfield to Olympic Park to improve connectivity. The Brisbane Busways are a great example of how to implement this.
Buses don't sound like a speedy mode of transport, though with dedicated busways, people can reach Brisbane CBD from the outer stations 20km away in under 25 mins. They can also reach the inner city (5km from CBD) bus stations within 10 mins.
@@mitchgranata573 Strathfield to Olympic Park bus is there, but low frequency and slow due to immense pressure on the road due to other vehicles especially in the office hours. I worked in an office in the Olympic Park a few years back. While I enjoyed the facilities there, the commute was horrible. I wish for a metro stop there or at least the light rail extention, or at least the Olympic Park shuttle train to go to Parramatta or Strathfield instead of Lidcombe to avoid one extra change coming out of a fast train.
I don't understand why they keep creating new stations in the CBD. Hunter Street is going to be such a pain to interchange with. Why not connect to Central, Martin Place, Town Hall or Barangaroo?
They even knocked down a large building to build it
Genius thinking by the NSW Gov
Yes why you would spend all this money and build only six stations between Parramatta and the CBD and essentially duplicate the mainline? And the route and placement of stations is very strange. A station at Drummoyne under Victoria Road by sending the tunnel north-east after Five Dock would have been really useful as well as running the line down the Balmain peninsula before heading off south to Pyrmont. I think our planners need to visit Beijing to see what a really great metro system looks like.
It’s duplicating the T1 line by design, to take off pressure from it. T1 is due to reach capacity soon.
@@sandylanceley3860 Not to defend all the half-arsed stop go plans of the previous government... but faster longer trains, better signalling etc would have been a lot cheaper.
Bro, I am very glad that I found your video and channel. I am studying regional and town planning at the University of Queensland and doing an urban renewal project for the course, and I learn so much from this video. Can I also ask you to do a video on the Queensland rail line or Brisbane? Thank you!
Thank you so much!! For now, I'm focusing on Sydney, but other states will come soon!
Great video explains a lot. I'm guessing the strict 20 minute rule is partly to create a time saving enough to convince Western line passengers west of Westmead to transfer onto the metro (as well as increasing Parra's attractiveness to business).
The gripe I've always had about the metro west project since is conception though, is why did they not choose the VICTORIA ROAD corridor? Maybe slightly longer travel times, and they wanted to serve Olympic park? The current alignment runs so close to the existing Western line it almost duplicates it, whereas a Victoria road alignment would have opened up an entire corridor currently not served by any mass transit, to rail.
Alleviating the pressure on the existing lines was a big part of the concept.
I totally agree!!! Many areas with no rapid transit access will be served like Ermington, Melrose Park, Gladesville, Hunters Hill, Rydalmere (now) and most importantly Top Ryde
@@sandylanceley3860 If that's the case, then it would be better if the new metro was a alternate local service. Upgrading T1 would be more effective and a better use of resources.
@@HenryMidfields Maybe, but the Metro West is a combination of factors. The quick CBD to Parra link, the inclusion of Sydney Olympic Park, the eventual extension to the western Sydney airport via parramatta. With limited resources I guess compromises had to be made.
@@sandylanceley3860 I wouldn't mind what the story was for some of the decision-making in the Government and whether of what kind of alternatives were looked at.
Good explanation as to why stations are and aren't build. As you know the cost of building stations is quite high, it would be good to see a cost comparison between the cost of stations and the cost of the tunnels
From what I have read stations are about $500m or the same as 5 kilometers of twin tunnels.
@@edwardbarnett6571 that’s in line with what I had heard, I didn’t know the numbers
Five Dock was chosen because one of the MP owned properties where the station is.
Nice to have a bit of political shenanigans into the mix
Great video as always Sharath...and your subscriber base is growing very nicely (I remember not too long ago reaching the thousand subs point)...showing that your videos are making their mark, and opening converstaion about the future of this great city...well sometimes great albeit for traffic 😂😂...but all jokes aside, the overall Metro system and its chosen corridors...for whatever the Govt's reasons...will always be open to contention...why/why not...constructability as you've pointed out be a major cost driver...is understandable and I think an underrated point mant take onboard...it's easier to inconveneince a few than the masses and to justify the cost for the few.
The Westmead end of the line for now is a wise idea, large medical hub, already medium/high density through much of the area, and a link to the current bus transit way fills the gap towards the NW metro and lower part of the Hills District.
As many of Sydney's areas age as well, it will be more likely to house more and more medium.high density developments, as there are huge tracts of land with single dwellings that I'm sure developers would love to get their hands on...allowing for even more Metro routes into the future...we shall see!!!!
Having the existing heavy rail with it's express and snail pace services will cater to the many along these lines as they have for ages...and evidence of more recent higher density housing construction along these routes is proof enough to your densification question...makes perfect sense.
Keep up the great work mate...as there is a lot to enjoy about your videos of not just the future plans of Sydney, but the older forgotten "future of Sydney" plans from many years ago...all of them extremely well researched, and presented in a non biased and commonsense approach...very well done...always looking forward to your next installment 😁😁😁😁
Thank you so much for your kind praise!!
The biggest problem in NSW is housing by a very long way. The Government has rightly said that all large transport must support new development.
I find the entire Sydney Metro West project confusing and bizarre, it just sounds like a napkin idea that came to fruition. Yes the lack of stations is definitely one thing, and the idea of building suburbs up around transit stations definitely a great idea, but the whole goal of a 20ish minute journey doesn't make sense, with Blue Mountains line trains from Parramatta to Central only taking about 25 minutes. Also the lack of connectivity in the centre of Sydney, which yes is a very difficult place to build in, will ultimately for me, make it a missed opportunity.
thanks for video - you need another map showing relationship between stations, non-stations and party-held electorates, as this correlation is well-established in so many other areas of funding
I think you're touching on an important thing here - there are some complex engineering and environmental challenges that can't be overlooked when embarking on these projects. I think we need to change our mentality to accept multi-modal transportation. For example, I don't see why there couldn't be short shuttle bus routes to ferry commuters from areas like Newington and Wentworth point the short distance to Olympic Park to connect with the metro there. Same goes for connecting interchanges. It would make sense to have fast links between major nodes, and slower, shorter routes to connect stations with lower density.
Keep up the good work! Loving the videos!
Nice video - one point - I wouldn't write off North Strathfield as 'just' an interchange. Even though parts of the suburb are relatively low density, there are a bunch of high density apartments either being built or already in existence just on Parramatta road. If they re-open the pedestrian bridge at Ismay Reserve over Powells Creek , many residents would have excellent access to the new station, and thus both CBDs.
I’m from Perth and to me, the large gaps between stations make total sense. In Perth, our new railways are built on that concept - a minimum of about 2.5 km between stations and an average of around 3-4 km or so. As a result of this and relatively straight rail alignments, we get much faster speeds than Sydney - trains travelling at 130 km/h regularly overtake cars on the freeway (our new railways are mostly in freeway medians to avoid tunnelling costs), and we manage to make a 70.1 km trip from Perth to Mandurah in 51 minutes, including stopping at all stations.
When I first visited Sydney, I was struck by how slow and inefficient the trains seemed to be - double-story increases dwell times, the guard position seemed unnecessary, and the trains accelerated slowly and never reached any sizeable speeds - so I think it’s great the Metro is taking a different direction.
As for the problem of how we serve suburbs that aren’t particularly near the distantly spaced stations, we do so using a combination of intricate feeder bus networks and various sizes of “park and ride” car parks at most stations outside the CBD. I think it works very well for our purpose of “getting quickly into the city”.
well done As somebody who works in the transport planning space, it's really nice to see you putting out accessible and informative videos for the world. Great stuff.
Great video, and so many changes since I lived there. I lived in the Parramatta area, and even in the late 70's/early 80's there was talk about decentralisation (it was a big thing with the NSW Labor Party). The problem back then was planning permissions. There was no way a local council would permit a high rise office building to be built outside of the CBD, and yet the State Government wanted people to decentralise. It's all very well having a 20 minute train from the CBD to Parramatta, but how many people reside in the CBD and will want to commute to Parramatta? I think very few, and so additional stations along the way of the new line will discourage car use or even discourage people travelling to the existing stations, reducing congestion. The 20 minute commute between the CBD and Parramatta sounds good, but in reality very few will benefit from this, because demand from the two centres will be limited.
The seven km between Olympic Park and Parramatta will be served by buses and trams. There is no need to include more stations in this area. As for between Pyrmont and The Bays, most of this run is under water. It's a bit hard to put stations here.
Sydney Metro is not a heavy rail service. Sydney Trains is heavy rail. Sydney Metro is metro rail, a separate class of rail between light and heavy rail.
One other thing - if more stations are put in, the travel time between Sydney and Parramatta will increase and this will take the shine off the main advantage of this new line.
These are key inaccuracies and shortcomings of this video that need to be addressed.
Leichhardt has a major sorting venue, Leichhardt Oval.
Surely that must help it get more public transport options.
Thank you. Very informative.
I have not seen a video from you, or indeed, a mention of Sydney's other transport service - the ferries on the Parramatta River.
In my community, there is a belief that developers with sites along the river are "enthusiastic" about "30 minutes to the City."
That said, the report by Cardno back in about 2011 identified $30M in foreshore and environmental damage, which the ferries had already caused.
The land around Camellia is really contaminated. Costs for remeidation would probably cost 30% of the entire project. Residential can't also be built there due to the contaminated land being too contaminated for any housing to take place.
Yep. Think that's the issue. It's not just minor contamination. It's the trifecta of all the really bad stuff - Chromium ,Chlorinated hydrocarbons, Asbestos.
And questionable whether it will ever be viable for residential.
One way or another the contamination will have to be dealt with. Doing it as part of a major development makes sense.
Can you look into the transfers? There are three L1 stations at Pyrmont; will the Western metro connect to any of them, or is it going to be another ridiculous situation like the L1 and T1/T2 at Lewisham?
Any plans for a Victoria Road bus interchange at The Bays, since they seem to have missed the opportunity for an L1 interchange there?
What's North Strathfield going to be like? A real interchange station, or another half-arsed, frustrating, poorly timed connection like L1/T3 in Dulwich Hill, that will drive people back into their cars?
Thanks!
Parramatta to North Strathfield is gonna be great for my work travel time. Great video as always!
3 additional stations, Lilyfield, Silverwater Rd, Rosehill.
It would add 7.5 minutes to journey, 30 minutes is still very acceptable to Hunter St, it's nearly 40 minutes to this location on any Western Line.
Lilyfield would need to be located in the Leichardt oval area, would require lifts lieu escalators and stairs would be 350 metres from the LR, however this isn't a problem relatively low capacity needed. Passengers would feed into this station from the LR, a dedicated underground walkway could be built from the LR level to a concourse.
Silverwater is located on a major road so station traffic can be added via buses, Newington has significant high density in the near vicinity, the industrial areas adjacent can be redeveloped.
Rosehill is on a direct line to the railway , Camelia isn't along the route.
The racecourse land could be opened for development with racing relocated to a new Hawkesbury racecourse development.
The rail stabling and repair facility moved to the old oil refinery site, and the proposed stabling site also redeveloped for housing.
This project not well thought out, the 20 minute shuttle idea is absurd, nobody is going to get off a western line service walk to the metro to get to the city 10 minutes quicker.
Far too much money is being thrown at Hunter St, St James would allow better redevelopment of the Market St and more westerly areas of the city and allow easy interchange with the circle with the circle upgrading capacity to 24 trains per hour. After building at St James, Market St and St James Rd would become traffic free malls.
I feel like you are making the problem sound far bigger than it really is. If the light rail is build correctly, I don't see a reason why it should take more than ten minutes from Camellia to Parramatta, it's less than two kilometers as the crow flies. And if you claim, that an extra ten minutes wouldn't matter on the line overall (which I don't agree with, 20 or 30 minutes is a massive difference for public transport), then surely it isn't that much of a problem for the future passengers to take 10 minutes on LR to Parramatta and then 20 minutes to Sydney.
Well you are forgetting the general principle of planners and governments is to make public transport as inconvenient and unusable as possible because they never use it themselves.
it's really strange the long distance without a station between parramatta and Olympic Park, especially that's not the bush area .....
Every time construction crews disturb Camellia it causes fish die offs in the Parramatta river, Camelia is more contaminated than the spiral mounds at olympic park, it'd be an environmental disaster if more gets dug up, I worry about the asbestos mounds at the old james hardie site. the top 60cm of soil is heavily contaminated and what's under is soaked with doixins so its best that no more construction projects happen in the area, I also hate to imagiine the future health disasters that will arise after that entire industrial area gets re zoned to residential.
Devil’s advocate here, when it is extended to the airport it needs to have a credible time to the city centre, put too many stations in the stretch from the city to parra, it negates the benefit for the metro connecting the airport, parra and the CBD
Interested in your input about escooters. NSW has banned them, while half of Australian states have legalised them. I think they would be a great new addition to our transport options, to reduce the number of cars on the road.
The one major question I have is why couldn’t the new metro line for Parramatta be built underneath the existing Parramatta Station? Surely with the right expertise, planning, surveying and architecture it could’ve been done in an efficient, safe way. It’s hardly convenient to have to get off at the existing Parramatta Station and have to do the five to ten minute walk to the new metro station in order to travel on it. Plus there’s a lot of businesses this construction work has affected. Some of those businesses had to close and they ain’t gonna come back. And not all of the people who were employed by those businesses will ever find work again. Thus building the new metro line ( And yes up to a certain point the light rail) has placed some people on Centrelink payments for the rest of their lives. Which ain’t good in anybody’s book or opinion. Plus there’s the constant noise of construction work that’s been going on for years in and around Parramatta and Harris Park. And we people who have been living in these suburbs for years now, deserve a break from the constant noise of construction. We’re Really wanting the peace and quiet we once had. Not the never ending noise from construction going on. There comes a time when enough is enough. So when You point out about all the people and suburbs that aren’t getting the metro line and stations, the question should be just how much noise, inconvenience are the people in those places willing to take or make sacrifices for? And maybe the answer could be they may not want the metro line because of the constant noise, inconvenience, temporary traffic changes ect……… ⚛️☮️ 🚇 🌏
i still think it should’ve been a heavy rail compatible railway but with train segregated.
Why would’ve you preferred heavy rail?
they can have extra lines by stations so trains can pass each other and still serve all centers of population. It should never be to late when you are building something that could totally change the lives of beings and or take the status quo and know you have a project that as it stands may be an improvement but when you see the potential to do something totally revolutionary that could set the foundation higher than any espected
I disagree with your statement about Camilla, the flood risk and ground contamination would have very high costs on the project. Old industrial sites are prone to this, and it is a big effort to clean up contaminated grounds. Given its so close to Paramatta anyway, as you pointed out, the ability to walk, bus or tram it is enough.
Fair point, but it is much better value for money to deal with contamination etc in the context of a major multi-purpose development than as single developments, and especially low density developments.
The area should be future-proofed though. There's no reason why the site shouldn't be decontaminated anyway as part of a longer-term project.
@@HenryMidfields yeah when you look at all the costs and spending it's a matter of when not if and it can't all be done at once. And the fact is the benefit doesn't match the cost and this is before the real costs emerge during construction.
I have to disagree with camellia the place has had a refinery there since 1925 it’s probably too contaminated for residential development and best off being an industrial zone. Also great video and I agree with most of your points exept camellia.
Great work. I recalling reading the cost of the station builds on the NW link was around $500M each. This is probably a factor as well.
I think this means the t9 is the line that interchanges with metro the most now because it runs to Chatswood central, north Strathfield Epping.
I live in Leichhardt and would absolutely love a metro stop in Lilyfield. Sad it's not gonna happen :(
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
@@cityraildude that's promising. I might do that too
@@cityraildude Do you reckon I should too? They haven't started construction have they?
@@HenryMidfields Go for it. Even if they have started construction, it would be so preliminary that it would be an easy fix. If enough people right to her, I'm sure she'll cave under people pressure
Yeah...such a shame
I think (as a T9 resident funnily enough) the thing I thought was most off about this line was that it interchanged through Nth Strathfield over Strathfield. Considering the stations aren’t super far apart and Strathfield interchanges with multiple lines whilst Nth Strathfield interchanges T9 only I thought it was a bit of an odd choice.
My only thought on why this is is that they want to develop Nth Strathfield a bit more while Strathfield is already quite a built up area?
Hong Kong SAR CN is a great example of what you are talking about (the MTR+rail model)
good video man but i really cant focus when all i hear is ur lisp
LMFAO bro i hate to say it ngl but i was thinking this
Thank you! The lack of a connection between the Parramatta Light Rail and the metro seems like madness to me, especially since it lacks a connection to Epping. For each of the 10,000s of people along the PLR corridor who commute towards the city, such a connection would save nearly 20 minutes itself, and I wouldn't mind it taking 23 minutes to get between the City and Parramatta if it reduces car commuters in that corridor.
'Engineering challenges' also seems a cop-out, given all the challenges the government has overcome to build road tunnels everywhere. I don't think they're as committed to public transport as they like to say, especially given how half-arse some PT projects have been, such as the L1 to Dulwich Hill, and its terrible connections to the T1 and T3.
I stated these concerns during the comment period, and asked exactly what the engineering challenges are, but didn't really get a satisfactory answer. It sounds like you were able to get more details, but reached a similar conclusion.
I think there should’ve been a connection at Camellia as well, but at least the light rail connection between Camellia and Parramatta is only 8 mins.
There is a connection to Epping. Change at North Strathfield for trains to Epping. :)
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
@@sandylanceley3860 Does that include the walk from the tram station to the railway station? I think that alone is at least 5 minutes.
@@josephj6521 For the metro, sure, but I was talking about the Parramatta 'light rail'/tram.
As Parramatta station is too small for a Sydney to Melbourne 700 km/h SC maglev station I suggest they build Parrahub ASAP as this would also provide much housing for older people to relocate with all services.
This would be done with passing stations at Canberra and Albury in a single 11 psi tunnel and to make it economically viable it needs an overnight container train to reduce daytime fares below planes.
If you look at rouse hill, apartments are some of the worst overvaluations in Australia. It was in the top 10 in the country, yet they are only increasing development without investing in infrastructure...e.g. there is a community centre with four exercise equipment and single pool to accommodate at least 30,000 people.
Expand that out with new development it only has a small-medium sized shopping centre to accommodate 100,000+ people.
Camellia is a definite need for a station, and extending to La Perouse is logical. But why no mention of a line to Mona Vale? It is a glaring mistake that the north east of Sydney is not served by rail.
i think there are a lot of issues with metro west. there are a number of locations that should have had a station built, whilst others shouldn't. top drummoyne (near birkenhead point) would have been a significantly better location for a metro station compard to five dock. victoria road is already a busy road that has capacity, it has great potential for future development. with westconnex, some of the pressure will hopefully be removed from the road, making a station easier. there's also a lot more space to build a better interchange for buses, whilst five dock doesn't have this. i live in five dock, pretty much just next to kings bay. i have said this many times, but five dock is a poor candidate for density. without significant changes, it just isn't viable. given the state of roads already (queens road is a great example, it's a nightmare as it is and has been proposed as a location for new dense developments), and there aren't great access points. great north road i don't think has much potential as a station, since the road is relatively dead (might change with metro), and there is limited space to build an effective bus interchange, making the potential for it being used by neighbouring suburbs reduced. great north road also acts as a busy collector, funneling most traffic from five dock, abbotsford, drummoyne, etc to parramatta road, however, with a metro station, i'm sure the speed will be dropped to 40km/h, and buses will be using stops on great north road, and there will be more, making it a lot busier. this will make it a far less attractive route, meaning all traffic it currently funnels will be diverted onto lyons rd west, and then harris road in order to get to parramatta road. both of the roads mentioned are just poor, and aren't able to handle large amounts of traffic. rosebank college (school on harris road) already contributes to significant amounts of traffic here, and it will only be exemplified by diverting other traffic. i also think that services should have access to both rhodes (instead of north strathfield for t9 interchange), and wentworth point, both of which are already extremely dense locations, and the latter lacks good public transport links. extending the line from wentworth point to olympic park and then parramatta i thought would be a no-brainer, because it would be so useful for residents, who only have direct access to parramatta through the ferry, forcing transfers if they want to avoid the ferry (or if parramatta wharf gets flooded). i also think newington is a prime location for a station for similar reasons to wentworth point (it lacks density now, but has potential for it). lilyfield doesn't have a station going in because it already has light rail, which gives direct access to the city, and those that live in lilyfield are unlikely to be working in parramatta. couple things i wanted to add as a local about the line, given i think it could have been a lot better (most probable reason why its as it is is because of the 20 minute promise)
One more thing to add for Westmead, and potentially Camelia/Rydalmere (if it were to have been built) is that usership rates would be greatly improved with parking access like what’s available at Ashfield (opal card controlled parking). Many people in these lower density areas (particularly surrounding suburbs) rely on parking at stops further away on the t1 line (despite living closer to Westmead) to simply not get ticketed.
I for one would happily pay a reasonable amount to park in a PT parking structure for my daily commute
I thnk they could add Camellia later. Currently having a Camellia station now is no different of having a Denistone station.
The Sydney Metro isn't a Metro. In London or Paris, if a station is closed, it's generally a 5 minute walk to the next station. Look at the Metro North West section. Apart from not building the link from Tallawong to Schofields heavy rail (2km!) the distance between Cherrybrook and Epping, Epping and Macquarie University and North Ryde and Chatswood are too long. I appreciate that in some parts of the route it is impossible to build a station due to decisions made when the Epping-Chatswood line was constructed, but it doesn't seem too hard to have made it better in the first place.
Correct Sydney Metro is not a Metro
at first when i saw olynpic park as a station io was like why just not have lidcombe but then i remembered it would allow for quicker access for people who live across the metro lne to acess olympic park quicker if they were going to the easter show or state of origin or the nrl grand final
There's also the light rail Stage 2 that terminates at Olympic Park.
The less stations the better. If you truly want to have the highest speed link BETWEEN Parramatta and the CBD, no stations is the best plan. Having no stations would make it the fastest medium between the cities.
I know there will be stations, but the fewer there are the better. If you live in between, you should use current transport options.
In order to cut trip times AND have tight station spacings for optimal development, you get faster trains. For some reason even though Sydney metro trains can reach 120kmh they only run 100kmh in service. Meanwhile BART, another metro in SF, be going 130kmh
What i think they should have done is to build 4x tracks underground (2x pairs for the double deckers and 2x pairs for the metro all stops). With the double decker tracks, the only station that serves it should be olympic park (during event days/peak hour maybe) and one other station (maybe north stratty or burwood north) along the government planned metro route.
Its will serve many of the Pernrith/Richmond/BM lines going all stations from whatever terminus on the line (or some skipping stops on the line), then its will merge into a dugout at ether westmead or parra area to go underneath on the express tracks. Then after its go into the express tracks, its only stop will be westmead, parra, olympic park, stratta north or burwood north and terminate at hunter street as per current plans.... Then they can ether add more all stops trains along the current T1 corridor between westmead/parra and CBD or the gov can add more T2 or T9 services using the middle lines and also with the BM lines using the underground, there should be more reasons to expand the CCN line service and even the BM lines.
As for the metro part, there should be double the stops added (eg westmead, parra, rosehill or camlliea, silverwater or newington, SOP, DFO or bicentinal park, north stratty, north burwood, five dock, lilyfield, the bays, pyrmont and hunter st. Then its should have allocations to be extended into the southern eastern suburbs.
Sure its would have costed double to come up with this idea, but its would be helpful and with at least 60+ trains per hour during peak from westmead/parra to cbd, its sounds like an idea.
Or alternatively and probs cost a whole lot more than that (probs triple and more complaints there), is rather to snake the metro though SOP and five dock make the metro go from usual westmead, parra, WSU, rydalmere/ermington, west ryde, top ryde, gladseville, drummoyne, rozelle, the bays, pyrmont and hunter street with the same allocation allowed for a southern eastern suburb extension
One more topic suggestion, which you may have covered already-I'll have to go exploring your back catalogue: The PLR terminating at Olympic Park, instead of along the T9, as was originally proposed-does that really make sense? When they say a T9 connection isn't feasible, what are they really considering? Just current traffic volumes, or potential traffic as well?
People along the T9 will obviously take the T1 to Parramatta and Westmead, but if the Olympic Park area is becoming so important, wouldn't it be worth them not having to change trains a second time to go there? (When the 'biggest timetable change in a generation' happened in 2012, it was clear they didn't realise what a pain in the arse it is to change trains. I lived in Stanmore and had a girlfriend in Sefton, and a single-seat ride became an arduous journey with two changes, and nearly doubled the length of the trip. I heard a lot of stories like that, especially for people trying to get to Westmead or Macquarie Park.)
When they made that PLR decision, did they look at how many people along the southern PLR corridor _could_ commute to Eastwood, or, ahem, Epping, if they had a quick and easy connection to the T9? Or just how many people do that commute today, when it's barely feasible anyhow?
Hmm didn't think of that. I'll consider it!
When building a metro, city councils/transport authorities should not only focus on residential or commercial areas but on industrial areas as well as this is where commuters especially drive. Hence building metro stations in these industrial areas would ease congestion and improve overall travel times, reduce pollution in local areas and in the end reduce carbon emissions.
So, it is a mistake not to build a metro station in Silverwater/Newington. It would have reduced congestion on Parramatta Rd and Silverwater Rd as many commuters could have taken the metro instead of the car, and as a positive side effect, it would have also given residents in Newington good public transport access.
To give a positive example of where this approach has been implemented: Barcelona has built two whole new lines - L9 & L10 - connecting the city/the metro network with the big southern industrial area of the city and also serving the harbour! The explicit purpose to build these lines was to reduce car traffic on the local road network, improve air quality and the quality of life in surrounding residential areas and encourage commuters to travel more sustainably by taking the metro and not the car. And it worked!
What about a video about cherrybrook station with very low density housing and nothing surrounding it, just stroads and houses.
He said in his vid abt it’s crazy future development though
Hmm I've been there and it still gets very busy haha, it services both Cherrybrook and West Pennant Hills. And yes, there is future development planned.
@@BuildingBeautifully Yes busy but the thing is, everyone has to drive there because housing is far
So they have to have a car to take public transport most likely.
So that's not good, would be nice for high rises and amenities close to the station.
I think the problem with the alignment of the Sydney Metro West is the both the government and TfNSW have no idea how and what is the purpose of a metro system. They just assume that metro will be the future replacement of the current Sydney rail network, with their current plans for the metro eventually taking up dominance in most if not all of Sydney, and in terms of the Metro West having few stations, they seemed to be confusing metro with high speed rail, and with the type of electric gauge makeup and carriages being built, this metro line just can't be both things at the same time. Surely an additional two or three stations while achieving the 20 minute trip between Parramatta and the CBD can be possible, right? I mean, if 9 or 10 stations is the maximum, then 8 can be the right balance, say after Parramatta, you have new stations built for Camellia and Newington leading up to Olympic Park, and then the remaining five before Hunter Street. I think that would make the Metro West serve its purpose and then some.
A lot of people that work around Hunter St in the city don't live out west. There needs to be a few more stations in the CBD or make it go further east.
Great and thought-provoking video, as usual! One thing that particularly stood out to me was the apparent conflict between the first two reasons given for building this line and the third reason that was given, in conjunction with the 20 minute travel time. The goals of reducing congestion and travel time between Parra and the City are solutions to extant problems that are, themselves, due to Sydney CBD-centric patterns of commuting. If Sydney becomes a "metropolis of three cities" and people can "live and work away from Sydney CBD" then end-to-end travel time between the two centres becomes much less important than being able to efficiently get to either centre from anywhere in between. It seems to me that a solution that solves today's problems will be poorly suited to tomorrow's reality.
PS: I strongly believe that industrial areas should have stations. Not only do the people who work in them deserve efficient and affordable transport to and from work but their transport costs are also part of labour costs.
Sydney is becoming decentralized by default. 20% of the CBD Offices are vacant and many people are leaving Sydney for regional areas or interstate
As someone that worked as a labourer for two years, Industrial areas should 100% have stations. Seeing as many people who are disadvantaged tend to work in the labour force, they need PT more than anybody else - speaking from experience. I don’t drive, and everytime I missed the bus I had to at least pay a $30 uber to and from work. Late night shifts are just the worse too. If the government want to encourage people to join the labour force they need to increase transportation options. Eastern Creek especially needs better access.
Great video! And an interesting point on the Inner West stations that I wouldn't have considered.
I don’t understand why they don’t do two tracks in each direction. Some suburban stations could be used to get people to larger stations with interchanges and have different express lines
Maybe they just thought they already have the Parramatta light rail that will pass through Camellia, if they include Camellia, then they have to leave out another station. But it is not too late, if they want to add a station in the middle later on. They can still do it in the future.
At the moment for the majority of the day from Parramatta to central a suburban train takes around 27min and a mountains train is around 20min
The problem of youth - learning enough stuff fast enough.
The government wanted a non-stop Parramatta-Sydney service, some MPs wants stops in their suburbs - so we got a bit of both. The Sydney Terminal Station can handle 10 services each way per hour - half of a two track through station. The Cheap solution for non-stop services is to convert the terminal station into a through station and have a second city circle loop which could include Pyrmont, Bridge St and Kings Cross - it could interchange with metro west and the ES line. A 5th and 6th non-stop track between Granville and Homebush is very cheap.
We should keep platforms 1 to 3 for tourist trains which would be a siding off the new intercity through lines.
By having four platforms (2 island platforms) at Express stop stations, then four tracks with two side platforms at All-stops stations, and finally four, and even 6 track corridors we can provide rapid services to everybody with service frequency kept high to reduce dwell time and wait time at stations.
Agree with you re Camelia. And the contamination problem could have been solved by going above ground like parts of the NW metro. Then the govt could have put in the basic shell of a station at Camelia now, and completed it when the area was redeveloped.
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
The site should undergo decontamination anyway in the long term. Maybe just make the alignments straight to assist any sort of retrofitting later on for the tunnels and build the rest once decontamination work is done. Retrofits shouldn't be ruled out.
@@HenryMidfields Again. Contact the minister.
I mean, there is a possibility of express trains, right?
Could they build the Camellia station later down the track? Is that something possible with tunnels and underground stations?
Have you given enough emphasis to revenue/profit motives for station placements? Yes, the state government can recover some costs by selling land. But councils and developers have billion-dollar motives for influencing station placement. Imagine the furious lobbying going on when the station locations were being decided. And it goes without saying that huge profit motives and corruption go hand-in-hand. Was the 20-minute target just a glossy headline for media outlets and voters? Even with just seven stops, it may not be achievable in peak times. And if it can't be achieved, who will get the blame? Govenment or unions?
I feel like the Metro, at least the first stages, is just the government's attempts to union-bust. I'm not against driverless metros, but the fact that they've all gone for long routes with wide gaps between stops makes me question the government's motives.
In my opinion, I believe that more medium density is a much better strategy than going for high density.
Less strikes is absolutely a big part of the metro strategy. But I’d argue public transport is simply too important to be held hostage by unions.
as always great video!! Thanks for your channel, please keep the vids coming.
A very interesting video. It's like the Westmead end, at least, of the line is ready to go. Does that mean it's going to sit there unused for the next 8 years, or did you just mean 2030 for total completion? Densification is one of the reason I got out of Sydney. I'm happy in my little town of
Better or worse, I'm the opposite. Densification (and better PT in general) is one of the reasons I'm living in Surry Hills, it's what happens when I grew up in Tokyo lol.
It is having a disastrous effect especially with the increasing traffic in and around the City
I had hoped that they would build it as 4 tracks, even if only for part of the route, so they could have more stations on a 'local' line. Then they'd serve the intermediate locations and not affect the 'express' services from Westmead. 1 or 2 would have 4 platforms so you could interchange.
There are already 6 tracks most of the way between CBD and Parramatta - intelligent investment could have delivered capacity and speed (yes even 20 mjnutes) so much more cheaply than the current mess.
What Sydney needs is more over priced two bedroom apartment developments crowded around metro stations where families will have to crowd in together like it's the 1800's. The development around stations is a mirage, it's mostly apartments for single people or couples but as soon as you start a family your choices are buy an uber expensive 3 bedroom apartment or just move out to a home in the suburbs. The government's idea of development is all about maximising profit for developers is has nothing to do with providing actual real useful and affordable housing for families who let's face, are the ones who are having the kids who will be the Australians of the future
Like your videos very informative.. I knew bits and pieces but you have helped me join the dots 👍
This is more of a RM Transit question, since it's so general, but is adding infill stations to metros a thing? Apart from Camellia and Silverwater, I think there are metro stations missing at Thompson's Corner and Lane Cove National Park, and probably more. Infill stations happen all the time above ground, and I recently noticed how they'd widened the platforms at some London Tube stations since I was previously there, by boring a new tunnel for trains in one direction and extending the other platform across the trackbed they originally used. But if a future government realises the lack of a station at Camellia was a mistake, could they create one? Or is the tunnel being bored too far out of the way? What about Thompson's Corner, which the line definitely does go straight under, and could be a place to interchange with Pennant Hills Road buses, or maybe even a Parramatta Light Rail link beyond Carlingford?
I've been told a West Pennant Hills station at Thomson's Corner would have been too deep; to be honest it's not too far from Cherrybrook or Pennant Hills at least. Adding infill tunnel stations is hard!! Easier if they have a station box prebuilt, like in Singapore, but hard otherwise.
@@BuildingBeautifully Deep schmeep. A couple of weeks ago I was on a metro platform in Barcelona that was probably about 80 metres underground. They just had a lot of lifts; it worked fine.
How one line takes 10 years to complete baffles me. South Africas Gautrain, with 10 stations, 84 kilometre route, was built in less than 5 years from start to finish.
I actually wrote to the NSW shadow transport minister about the gaps in the Western metro line and she said she'll look into it. Make of that what you will
Why not have a no stop Parramatta to City line built next to the all stop local line?
I've come late into this discussion and although I generally support the principle of Metro West, the justification for it as a priority and the final outcome leaves a lot to be desired. The primary justifications are to relieve congestion on the T1 Western & Richmond Lines and to provide faster journey times from Parramatta to the Sydney CBD.
In the case of the former, it's an outright lie, as the greatest overcrowding on T1 prior to Covid was west of Parramatta, which Metro West will do nothing to address. There is ample spare capacity on the existing T1 quad west of Parramatta to run more services to reduce overcrowding (currently 22tph including 4xBMT and 2xT5, with an inherent capacity of 40tph) , but because of the constrained rail corridor to the east towards the CBD, there are no spare paths available to reach the CBD. While Metro West certainly does significantly increase capacity from Parramatta to the CBD, it would rely on forced interchange for increased Sydney Trains' services from the west. It is not practicable to terminate more T1 services at Westmead or Parramatta in the morning peak, nor would commuters heading for destinations east of Parramatta take kindly to it when they've always enjoyed a direct service. Suggestions have been made to redirect Richmond Line services via the T5 Cumberland Line, which would be similarly unpopular. There are actually more exists at Parramatta than entries in the morning peak.
Following community consultation and TfNSW own research of Opal data for future services on the remnant T3 Line after metro conversion of the Bankstown Line, there was overwhelming support for reinstatement of the direct Liverpool via Regents Park service to the CBD via the T2 Inner West Line, rather than being forced to interchange to the metro at Bankstown. There will no longer be a direct service from Liverpool to Bankstown until such time as the metro is extended, if ever. A shuttle service will be provided between Lidcombe and Bankstown. There's a lesson there for future services on the T1 Line and Metro West.
A far better and less expensive solution to congestion on T1 in the short term, would be to complete sextuplication between Homebush and Granville to decouple it from T2 and utilise the spare capacity on the Main from Strathfield to Sydney Terminal, which only has 12tph in the morning peak. The sextup can be constructed mostly on the surface wholly within the existing rail corridor, with a short tunnel section between Flemington and Auburn to bypass the constrained rail corridor through Lidcombe. It would be an express line with no intermediate stations, so cheap to build. This would allow increased services from west of Parramatta/Westmead to run direct to the CBD without interchange being required. A longer term option would be to extend the express tunnel from Flemington to Strathfield and then on a straighter alignment to new underground stations at Redfern, Central (Railway Square), Town Hall West and Wynyard, as proposed for the City Relief Line from the Main at Eveleigh.
The issue of relative journey times from Parramatta to the CBD is also misleading, as it doesn't define what is the actual CBD destination. Is it Hunter St or Central? Central is the primary focus of the rail network where interchange is possible to all other lines, including light rail. Under the current T1 timetable, the fastest journey time from Parramatta to Central is 25 minutes for BMT Intercity, with one stop at Strathfield, and 26 minutes for T1 Suburban, with stops at Strathfield and Redfern. It should be remembered that this is under the current timetable which was slowed down in 2005 to improve on-time running statistics. There has been no comparison with improved journey times on the existing network, not to mention frequencies, which will be achieved with the proposed digital signalling and ATO upgrades. Claims that Metro West, with an all stations service, will provide superior journey times to the CBD are misguided at best.
This is where the whole concept of the current Metro West plan has fallen down. It's trying to provide different service levels on a single line, of fast journey times, while attempting to maximise its passenger catchment, which is typical of a high capacity metro service. They're oil and water. The fixation of a journey time of 20 minutes to the CBD (to where exactly?) is compromising its potential catchment, by restricting the number of stations along the route, when a similar journey time would be achievable at far less cost with the proposed upgrades to the Sydney Trains network. They have to make up their minds about what should be its primary function. To my mind, it should be to provide a rail service along a new corridor between Parramatta and the CBD by maximising its catchment area with more stations, regardless of whether it satisfies developers. Don't existing inner city suburbs off the rail network , which are generally of a higher density anyway, deserve a rail service? The journey time, although still fast, should be a secondary consideration. This is why I don't regard it as being a priority, when upgrades to the existing network which can provide faster express services, should come before it.
It's academic now, but I don't regard the current Metro West route as being ideal. I would have preferred the former Labor government's West Metro route from the CBD to Parramatta via the more southerly Parramatta Rd corridor through Camperdown and Leichhardt. It had more stations, including the major rail junction at Strathfield. Pyrmont and the Bays Precinct could be served by a future Victoria Rd metro line to at least Ryde on a similar alignment to the previous abandoned North West Metro proposal.
The difference between the current heavy rail and the proposed metro is none of the things said in here. The major difference is shared use as in other lines joining it and passenger trains sharing it mixed type passenger trains (express and local work) plus sharing it with freight trains.
The current line could also do it in 20 minutes if it did not have to accommodate sharing with others, where as the metro wont be sharing its line with anyone else.
Cherrybrook and Epping stations are not exactly close to each other either. 10km to be exact. 4 minutes by metro, 15 minutes by car off peak hours.
As a former resident of Westleigh I approve this message
The gaps between stations is not only long but highly variable. This creates timetable issues and reduces total capacity. The ideal system has stations at equal spacing
Sydney Metro = Sydney Trains 2.0 with single-deck
Nearly 50% of the cityrail resource is dedicated to the T4 line alone... it's the most busy line EVER!
I found this article from 2018 that says............ "According to the data the busiest train line in the morning is the T1 Western line with an average load of 145 per cent between 8am and 9am. It’s followed by the T1 Northern line train via Strathfield (137 per cent) and the T4 Illawarra (132 per cent)."
one of your best yet. thanks
Wow thank you!
Congratulations!! You are a breath of fresh air on the areas you deal with; although you were naïve about Albo's HSR promise . That was just another "It is election time, so we have to propose HSR again." Leaving that aside, and I can excuse your youth for that failure to grasp political history (I was born during WWII), your input is well thought out. You are a welcome change from the many mindless "everything the government does is wrong" comments that one reads. I do agree with your thoughts about Camelia, but I don't know what the answer is given the contamination of the area. When the Government initially presented the option of a station at either Camelia or Rydalmere, the "mindless, everything the Coalition Government does is wrong" voices were convinced that the Government would choose Camelia so that "their rich developer mates" could build high rise apartments and become even richer. These people were convinced that that was the only reason the project was proceeding. They believed that the Government wasn't primarily interested in building a good rapid transit system but simply a way to enable their rich developer mates to make even more money. As I said at the beginning, you are to be congratulated. You have a good grasp of the issues and your suggestions make a great deal of sense. Well Done!
Thank you for that! I don't believe in being political in this channel...I'm young and not too politically cynical yet 😆😆😆. This channel is all about infrastructure, not politics, and I'm focusing as much on the objective reasons for choices in our infrastructure projects as much as I can, while trying to be as impartial and unbiased as possible. Thanks for noticing!
What I like about the Sydney Metro West is I will be able to get on the train at Pyrmont and go straight to Olympic Park without changing lines at Lidcombe.