How HARD do nunchucks hit? the saga continues. . .
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- Опубликовано: 31 мар 2022
- Let's look at the actual physics behind the striking force of nunchucks compared to sticks.
Check out this test by the Wushu Engineer comparing one to two handed strikes, sticks vs nunchucks, and guess which one wins ^_^ • Response to Shadiversi...
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You can even see at around 23:50 that when he hits the boards with the nunchucks, the board bounces BACK UP, because that 'tennis match- of forces wasn't allowed to be completed, and left energy in the board for it to 'hit the tennis ball' so to speak. Whereas with the stick, you can clearly see how the follow through absolutely DESTROYS the board- the deformation is so severe the wood noticably shatters and splinters.
Probably the best example to show all the principles you've mentioned in a clearly visibly way (as opposed to a very heavy, stationary humanoid target), and show just how inefficient the nunchucks are at transferring energy. The cantaloupe in the next example also does the same, albeit to a much lesser extent likely due it's weight.
The follow through allowed the stick to overcome the springiness of the cantaloupe and actually deform it, little by little over the duration of the strike, until it was completely smashed, unlike the nunchucks. You can even see he tried to follow through on the strike with both the nunchucks and the stick, so that isn't the problem.
@@Skillfullfilms89 Sticc supremacy unga bunga
I wonder if that would change if you used a 3 section staff.
@@ravoniesravenshir3926 Well, there'd be more mass and he'd have to compare it to a quarter staff (assuming we're using the full 3 sections and not just whacking with the ends), but there'd be 2 points in which the chain of kinetic force is broken instead of 1. I wouldn't mind seeing it, but I don't imagine it'd change anything.
@@Skillfullfilms89 That's also a part of the advantage of chain / flail weapons - they remove the hand shock from the impact. Remember these were designed as TOOLS to use all day and then repurposed to the battlefield. I've used simple stick and flail type threshers - that chain and the removal of the hand shock makes a HUGE difference after a few hours.
Watching a full grown adult rant over a broken stick and a string will never get boring.
I agree with you on that one
Hell yeah I know right
I disagree. I opened the video to see how long it is and there is no way this video needs to be 26 minutes long.
It is very well boring, a joke gone too far.
@@IIARROWS It's no joke, it's a topic of interest that people can like enough to discuss for long periods of time.
I love the manga One Piece enough to watch multiple 4 hour videos of it. Is that boring? Well, not to me. So this is just not your cup of tea and that's ok.
@@IIARROWS a joke? what day is it anyway?
“When you deform a person that’s called an injury”
-Shad 2022
Baby has unlocked permanent injury
"people died when they're killed"
Thanks for the mention, Shad. Your point about two-handed wielding and potential leverage advantage/kinetic linkage/enhanced control of the flute/stick is well worth investigating, so the Wushu Scientist and I accept your research proposal. We will repeat the tests using two-handed striking techniques and see what kind of results we get.
What I wonder about is using less than maximum force. For a stick, the force you put in and the force you get out is fairly linear (I'm assuming; could be wrong). However, is the same true for a nunchuck? It feels like you can get a faster acceleration for lower input force, at least up to a certain level, and I wonder how much effect that has on the strike force. Would that potentially generate enough force to be an effective weapon, or would it still be too little?
Awesome, can't wait to see your results!
I'm really interested to see how much more force proper technique can give.
Stick science
Yes that's what we need. Actual science, testing, numbers. My instincts say shad is right but we all know our instincts are dumb (at least we should) and you should never trust them which is why we do science. Reading up on what parts of an impact do damage would also be good. In crash testing you often talk about jerk as well so that might be an avenue of investigation.
A rather verbose way to say :
"Put your back into it."
"But I can't do that with nunchucks"
"Precisely."
The mental gymnastics of fanboys are infinite. This probably won't ever end. I still see new comments about Shad's hit pieces on nunchuks on other channels to this day.
Swing it right 😂
Shad VS Nunchucks. The never ending story of our current time.
Same thing was with what side to nook the arrow. He'll get over it after milking the topic for YT dollars.
Accurate
1st world problems 🙂
@@kovi567 Boys gotta earn a living 😉
Still a better love story than Twilight.
I once conducted an experiment on how hard a nunchuck hits... the problem is that I don't remember what happened other than I woke up in the hospital a few hours later
how odd...
did someone knock you out with a stick?
Self harm is a problem when practicing with them in your bed room, or that's what I told my mum ......... 😂😁
Be glad you were not hit with a stick then.
Good thing you didn't compare it to a stick then,
I love how the ongoing stick vs nunchuck debate has evolved into advanced math lessons
Bring math to a fight and see how you do lol
@@nunchuckman4253 tell that to Oppenheimer.
Actually, for the stick, you get to add in the mass of your whole arm and some of the rest of your body too depending on how you swing it. Even with one a handed swing.
I think he was trying to get the energy that the weapon adds to the attack, but good point, some body mass also contributes to the attack.
@@jadenrobinson9781 point is nunchucks would not have that weight in their hit
You don't, you don't even get the weight of the first stick because of the chain in the middle.
@@dcruize5039 why do you comment without reading? He literally said "for the stick", not the nunchuck
@@darthnihilusthebestsith misread, thought they meant the stick handle of the nunchucks.
The longer this debate goes on, the more physics Shad is forced to learn and the stronger he gets 💁🏽♂️
Yep haha, I love that it has gone so far now that we are down to the nitty gritty science behind the mechanics, to explain why the stick is simply a better weapon lol.
@@XBullitt16X sadly he doesn't yet talk about torque or angular momentum. What they learn at australian school? Angular momentum would be a very good topic to address to be honest. As would be the physical pendulum created by impact in the moment of transferral.
And the more the other side will ignore the facts
@@Liquefaction Yeap, that's how it works.
Before we know it, he'll publish a peer-reviewed paper about nunchucks.
The only good thing about nunchucks is the amount of content you can make about them
True
Three things can be watched eternally:
1) how the fire burns
2) how the water flows
3) how Shad destroys nunchucks with FACTS AND LOGIC.
sigue soñando
I wasn't expecting a physics lesson, but I appreciated it
Feels rather fitting to showcase the potential strength of the nunchuck as a weapon around April Fools
I've been watching exclusively for the "yeah just kidding nunchucks SUCK so APRIL FOOLS"
@@RWAsur had the same expectation lol
@Part-Time Gamer where the did you get that from? Of course the nunchucks could severely harm? No one has ever said they could not. The reason that weapon gets a fair bit of hate is because it is one of, if not the weakest weapon. Even a regular stick of same size/dimensions is more dangerous, and easier to use for that matter. It is still a weapon that can severely damage or kill, of course. But compared to pretty much all other weapons, it’s an awful weapon.
@@RWAsur
interesting content meta i'd say 😂
@@fugumeister7563 yeah, I would rather fight with my bare hands than the stupid string sticks
In the original Battle Royale movie, kiriyama kills a small group of kids and goes through their stuff. He pulls out a pair of nunchucks and just tosses them away. Thought youd appreciate that
Yes, everyone appreciates the killing and looting of kids. Wait what?
Haha i was about to comment that too!
Donatello the smartest ninja turtle had a stick
Dumbest one, michelangelo, had nunchucks
I'd say the _one_ advantage of nunchaku is the inconspicuousness - _that they had when they were first used as weapons instead of farming tools._ It's like the walking cane effect (or umbrella would be an even better example nowadays since walking sticks are pretty unusual in most 'environments') - nobody sees it as a weapon since nobody _uses_ it as a weapon, and it has a completely different usage that everyone employs, so everyone sees "anti-rain tool" instead of "thin stick sturdy enough for one or two fairly hard strikes".
Was looking for this comment. In addition it should be remembered that they were flails used for threshing. That is repeatedly whacking rice, wheat and so on to separate the edible part of the grain from the straw and chaff. You can do this with a stick, but by using a flail less of the energy is fed back into your hand and arm. So that flexible joint isn't there to increase power but to make it easier on the user.
If all you use it for is hitting people it's not the optimal weapon by far, and a stick is going to do more damage. Some mean the joint makes it a more flexible weapon. Well yea, but even so it's not really that impressive. What it does better than a stick is conceal a four foot long stick. Nunchucks are a lot shorten when folded up.
All in all I'd say there are situations when they can be a better choice than a stout stick, but usually that's because you can't have a stout stick...
If all you care about is efficiency, protection and damage the stick will win.
A Stick…can be a walking stick as well which won’t draw attention at all either and you can also deliver a 1/2 smack as well if needed.
@@Predator20357 _"walking stick as well which won’t draw attention at all"_
Have you been outside any time during the last century or so? How many people with walking sticks have you seen?
Walking sticks _will_ draw attention (except in pretty specific situations such as mountain climbing, or of course when you're using obvious crutches). What a walking stick _probably_ won't be perceived as is a weapon, so it's also less conspicuous than, say, a scabbard with a sword in it, or... well, nunchaku 😂
@@blahorgaslisk7763 I didn't say "concealability", I did write and indeed mean "inconspicuousness". Of course nunchaku are _also_ somewhat concealable, though there are modern telescoping sticks that are both better concealable as well as longer and... not broken in half.
My point was that in the time when they were actually used as weapons by the peasants, nobody perceived them as weapons, so the peasants didn't get into trouble for "carrying around weapons".
@@mcwolf1096 Nunchucks will draw more attention since who do YOU seen walking around with Nunchucks that isn’t seen as a Weeb in modern times?, and I have seen plenty on hiking trips. I thought we were talking about it in the context of the time and not modern day where people will ask what anime you watch if you carry Nunchucks with you. Doesn’t help that people see Nunchucks as weapons more than sticks (Ask the UK and the Hero Turtles)
Ive practiced nunchucks casually for about 8 years.
Pros
-great dexterity/hand eye coordination trainer
-forearm workout
-its an exotic weapon that's rarely used. Many won't know its true weaknesses unless they've studied.
Flaws
-blocking with this weapon is not advised, dodging required.
-danger to yourself.
-unless it hits at full length and follows through, this weapon bounces and loses control easily.
-cheap pairs are unreliable and break easy.
-practice required outweighs actually combat effectiveness.
-the weapon is utterly useless against anything lengthy or heavy.
In the end they're great weapons to practice and condition your body for superior, more reliable weapons. You can only use them in combat if you have a reliable pair that lasts, if you're trained in many different strikes/transitions and if you literally have nothing else in reach.
I don't care about weapons or medieval stuff, nor really any subject on your channel. Yet I keep finding myself watching more videos. Maybe your unapologetic passion for what you do... keep it up. Very entertaining 👏
Thanks heaps Nathan, it's a pleasure to have you join us!
@@shadiversity when will you review Warhammer Fantasy weapons like Ghal-Maraz?
@@akumaking1 just ask in the main comment section, why do people ask questions in sub-comments?
Nerds excitedly talking about their hobby always engages me. I don't care if it's some 1960s football cards, stamps, comics, space flight, whatever. The passion from the person always impresses me and hey, getting to learn some new information on a niche topic can't be bad.
@Alkatron Because they belive he's gonna see it since he answered already. This is false of course
Your mention of the targets being springy has given me an idea on how to improve nunchucks. What if we removed one stick from the stick and string, made the stick which is still attached to the string more _springy_ and then connected the string to the top and bottom of the stick to make an arch. Then we sharpen the detached stick, place it on the string, pull back the string to make the now springy other half of the nunchuck bend, then we release the string and sharpened stick, and it will be launched forwards at high speeds!
We have now created a superior ranged version of nunchucks, created using very similar materials of 2 sticks and a bit of string. You're welcome. It's suspiciously similar to my improved version of the throwing knife, but I'm sure that's just coincidence.
This thing was so hard to read just to realize you’re just talking about a bow and arrow but then again I didn’t sleep yet
I bow to your cleverness.
Why not just attach it to hovitzer and have it serve as a trigger, almost ultimate firepower improvement.
Haha. It's also surprisingly similar to bows don't you think?
@@kleinjahr omg you're a genius
If I understand correctly, the nunchaku was never originally meant to be used as a primary weapon. It is believed to have been an agricultural tool (Eric Bohm has a good comment on why they were great for threshing grain … for the very reasons that make them poor weapons) then later as a training tool for newer students to develop the reflexes and also discipline needed to handle more advanced weapons (since nunchucks are very prone to hitting the wielder if not wielded correctly).
Get hit in the head by nunchucks
And see how much more you respect them
When this whole thing started I was taking a dynamics class so I worked it out from that perspective.
Because there was so much debate as to how much force was transferred, I just assumed perfect transfer for both, and even then the result was pretty conclusive-
A nunchuck with the same mass would have to move not just moderately faster, but **much** faster (>2x iirc) to make delivery of the same energy even theoretically possible.
This channel is now a full time "debunking nunchucks" channel, and I love it, lol
"Why we don't make cannons out of tinfoil"
or
"Why nunchucks are for little girls not warriors!"
@@DailyCorvid Masz rację, dlatego ostatnio coraz mniej tu zagladam. Ten gostek się skończył. Woli robić idiotyzmy pod publikę niż trzymać poziom.☹️
Defend your virginity with nunchuks!
Even IF the amount of damage you deal was the exact same, the defensive capabilities of the stick make it the superior weapon.
You've never been smacked by a nunchuck lol
@@BrianTheweirdbeardYou've never been smacked by a stick lol
@@mangopie7602 you've never been smacked
I love how Shad went from a bit of making fun from nunchucks to explaining difrence with science
Man. Came for the Nunchucks jab. Stayed for the physics lesson. I was a trash student in high school. But sticks hitting cantaloupe was exactly what I needed.
I've heard numerous stories of D&D and other fantasy take kids, and adults, who normally have no interest in academics and turn them into someone interested in academics be it physics, history, physiology, etc.
I was ready for more "stick good" feels but ended up learning something about physics. Shadiversity everyone.
a scientifically based "stick good" xD
MOAR STICK!
Imagine if high school physics was like this, how much more engaged kids would be...
So glad you brought physics to this discussion! I'll even add more clarification regarding the rebound of the weapons following the strike, a very straightforward concept demonstrating why the nunchucks would fall short of a stick with the same mass and swung at the same speed.
Again, assuming equal mass and speed, both weapons will carry the same amount of kinetic energy prior to striking. At contact some amount of that energy is imparted to the target, and some back at the weapon. The bounce-back or other movement of the weapon after the strike is (mostly) kinetic energy retained after the strike. It's pretty clear watching the tests that nunchucks have SIGNIFICANTLY more bounce-back as compared to the stick - and therefore more energy retained in the weapon after the hit. Knowing conservation of energy, this must necessarily mean that more energy is being imparted to the target upon impact with the stick. This is likely due to being able to hold onto the entire object and continue following through with the attack, but there's no arguing the physics here.
Great video!
I think for those who says that nunchucks hits harder they really mean for the same mass of sticks, nunchucks have a longer low mass string, assuming the torque at the ends are large enough such that centrifugal force is enough to straighten the nunchucks, for the same angular velocity, the nunchucks will have higher linear velocity. IE: strings are cheap, easy upgrade to make stick longer thus faster, and easier to find then bigger sticks.
Edit: also two rods of length L connected by low mass string length k have a higher moment of inertia then a single rod of the same mass and length 2L, parallel axis theorem if I remembered correctly.
Gotta love the fact, even though Shad has clearly stated many times he considers Nunchucks an F tier weapon and not very effective, he STILL technically has them be one of the most extensively covered weapons on his channel.
"Nunchucks suck and here's a 10 page essay on why"
“Nunchucks suck and I can prove it mathematically.”
@@soulsurvivor8293 You've seen his sparring matches and videos of him going against other people???
He beat JAZZA, HIS BROTHER, who is waaaay more physically fit mind you, without a lot of effort at all. With a lot of good technique.
@@soulsurvivor8293 any weapon were you need years of training to be able to utilize it effectively (without hurting yourself in this case) and that training would only let it be on par (at best) with just a sturdy stick, is a bad weapon. Nunchucks look cool, and will continue to be one of the weapons people like to watch being used, but they are not practical in an actual fight, and lose to just a stick.
@@UXMetalVTuber the thing is, jazza was not trained in swordmenship at all. Anyone with a few months worth of basic training will have a high chance beating a completely untrained opponent in a sword duel. Swords ain't some stuff that anyone can just pick up and already be good enough like spear or mace, the thing need training to be utilized effectively. Jazza being fit ain't matter when he's untrained.
The whole way you’re trained to hit is to put your body mass behind the blow. When you hit with a stick it’s not just the mass of the stick but some of your weight too. If you’re rotating your whole body into the blow a 3kg stick has tens of kilos behind it.
Which is practiced in just about all stick fighting.
It's not your whole body weight, rather as much as your wrist can support at the end of a stick.
@@ctrlaltdebug true but that’s still several kilos and depending on the situation you could use both hands.
@@ctrlaltdebug still a heck of a lot more than half a pound.
A stick is just an extension of your body
I really appreciate that shad goes the extra mile of learning the science of, say, smithing katanas or impulse duration in order to educate. It's very detailed good job
Your passion for these videos and topics are the reason why your content is so entertaining. Keep it up!
Came for an April Fool’s joke. Received a physics update (having been a science teacher, this lesson is better than some I taught). Very happy.
That is sad. He is constantly mixing up force and impulse.
@@Elrog3 sad is that you didnt understand anything
@@Zyczu55 baseless assumption
I cannot for the life of me pay attention in my physics lectures, but this holds my attention
Shad, please be my physics professor
and to explain how physics work, he will rant on how shit nunchucks are and why! =P
“When a person is deformed, that’s called an injury”
-Shadiversity, April 1, 2022
Awesome info! Especially explaining the 'Goldilocks' of duration and compounding of force.
I'll be honest, when I saw yet ANOTHER nunchucks video, I thought you were getting way too personally invested in the topic.
How wrong I was. Really appreciate all your research and follow ups on topics like this.
Awesome! Can't wait to see the great finale: *"Testing out Nunchucks against other Nunchuks"*
A knotty problem 😀😉
There might be a sao abridged hit a baby with another baby to test its durability joke that can be made here...but i dont know how to do it e.e
The ones with a looped string are far superior to the ones with a single string. Obviously.
Nunchuku versus Flails
The one true niche of nunchuks: formalized dueling
For the layman, the baseball example is useful. Imagine hitting a ball with a bat, but you don't keep your wrists firm upon contact. The ball will be hit forward due to the initial velocity of the bat, but it go a much shorter distance compared to a swing with solid form and follow through. Nunchucks are like having limp wrists, except probably a little bit worse. They still function, but you're really gimping yourself out of your potential.
Yeah, if nunchucks could hit harder, someone would have probably tried hitting baseballs with nunchucks and get a comparable distance,
The flexible element is very inefficient.
Yeah! There's you next experiment! Cut a baseball bat in half, and attach the two halves with a short piece of rope. Then see how far you can hit a baseball with the nunchuck-bat, vs the regular bat.
in civilised countries we play cricket
@@archiebf4524 In more civilised countries we play pesäpallo.
thank you for the balistic demonstration (the cantelope tests). having a destructible matterial which shows the difference in impact in how much damage is done helps a lot more than any amount of numerical comparison
Contgratz on you for an April 1st video filled with science rather than a joke.
The tether, rather than a continuation of the form, is a point of relinquished leverage.
Put simply, a stick is better at hitting someone else hard.
Conversely, nunchaku is better at hitting yourself.
Well and also, if there is energy expended to change the direction of the hitting end there is some energy that didn't get expended to permanently deform a human.
You only loaded a human spring, you didn't break the human spring. Though somtimes your wooden spring might break instead. Leaving you with a nunchuck.
sure, but being more nimble, it will be easier to hit two people in less time?
@@tkathn4301 Considering how you can hit someone and yourself in one go, yes you definetly have an easier time hitting two people. And it's not like a stick is some gigantic unwieldy thing. It's basically only limited by human biomechanics. And needs far less coordination. It's a stick. So easy a child can use it and they do.
@@ayumikuro3768 I recall from when I trained in the escrima stick, I was able to do some pretty rapid fire hits. As you say, the stick is not some unwieldy heavy weapon.
Simple experience : Cut a baseball bat in two with a chain in the middle... (Be sure that the length stay the same and the weight as close as possible)
Compare the power transfer to the ball when you hit it.
If the ball fly closer, baseball bat win.
If you hit less easily the ball, baseball bat win.
If you hurt yourself with the back clash, baseball bat win.
If you destroy the ball, you're hulk, stop playing with a baseball bat or a nunchuk please !
Very good video as usual 😄
I refuse to stop playing baseball because the baseballs are too weak.
I just love that you have another opportunity to go full nerd on this topic.
I will have nun of this, Chuck all the arguments out the window
Another point, that you mention in the video, but it's actually very important: when you hit "correctly" with a stick, you transfer a part of your body mass into the momentum. That is why when wielding a sword, you try to "turn into" the hit and when striking with a spear, you thrust with your whole body (as opposed to just swinging the sword with one hand or thrusting the speak only using your hands but not moving the body).
So we are not only dealing with the mass of the weapon, but the mass of the weapon plus a part of the body mass. For this reason, I think even if you increased the mass of the nunchucks, so that it weighs more than the stick, you will STILL get a "stronger" hit from a stick, provided you know how to strike correctly.
Of course, I don't have empirical evidence to show that but I've studied some physics and that's my speculation.
Nunchuck is a girly weapon that is it's sole purpose, it's more effective in the hands of a smaller weaker person than a sword axe practically any other weapon and is more easily carried. Past that it's use as a weapon is nil.
Sorry chuck lovers... True fact. if you are arming your subjects then you're not giving chucks to any proper warrior as they're not effective enough at killing enemies. But for a woman who's more interested in the disarm, slowing strikes in order to aid escape! Then it's pretty good when you have no sword arm or skill and you're planning to RUN AWAY!
You don't need evidence bruh this should be obvious to anyone that ever grabed a stick
A weighted nunchaku is colled a combat flail...
Its a bit longer btw.
@@DailyCorvid this is a bit of a weird comment (especially all the stuff about it being a girly weapon) but the reason it's not very effective as a weapon is because it's not intended to be a weapon.
Like most stereotypical "ninja weapons", it's a farming tool that was repurposed as a weapon, I'm pretty sure nunchucks specifically are for threshing rice to get the grains off the plant. It doesn't hit hard because that's a horrible thing to have happen when you're trying to just get rice off of a plant. You're not giving them to proper soldiers because it was literally a weapon invented buy peasant farmers who didn't have access to proper weapons.
Also, I feel like a short sword or knife would probably still be better for somebody who doesn't have a lot of physical strength. They're not exactly heavy and it doesn't require much skill to cut a bitch from 2 ft away.
@@FirstLast-wk3kc but is a flail a better weapon than the Stick!(TM)?
I’ve been binge watching a lot of Shad’s videos for the past half month, and only recently did I find out that he had a whole past crusade of nunchuck videos. I thought to myself, “damn, that’s a lot of content, but there can’t be any more to say after all that.”
I’m actually glad to be wrong.😁
Have you ever considered doing a Sickle and Chain video Shad? I love the content. Thank you for all the amazing videos and informative content. God bless you and have a wonderful day.
you have convinced me. i love your content as well
Thanks Shad I've long since abandoned thinking nunchucks are good weapons but you still made this video entertaining and polished up my transferring optimal force into the target knowledge.
The original agricultural implement, a thresher, seems to be the tools of choice for that task because it allows the user to apply enough force to separate the head of the grain from the stalk, while protecting the user from hand shock. The latter element would presumably increase the amount of time the user can spend working, instead of resting.
An interesting deduction! I would add that it could also matter that they are trying to knock the grains loose, rather than destroy the stalk (and possibly grains by crushing them) which would add lots of undesired debris to the grain collection; thus you would intentionally choose something that does less damage with the same effort.
Reducing hand shock is likely a reason why flails were used on horse back.
Excellent video as always.
Learned and understood physics from this video better and easier than I ever did at school.
Imagine your stick breaking mid-impact. That stops the kinetic chain and weakens the overall strike. That's the similar situation with nunchucks -- you can't push the rope, only pull on it.
Yes, but now you have a shorter pointy stick that can deliver force from your body mass, and might be able to be shoved into unpleasant places on the body of the creep you’re beating.
Indeed, and if you connect them with rope, you can't even shove the other one into unpleasant places, since you can't push on the rope, just pull. :D
And if Buffy had sharpened the ends of both of her nunchuck sticks, she could not only beat the crap out of those vampires, but also dusted them from a safer distance with a superior delivery system.
When you strike with nunchucks, your arm and entire body keeps moving. When you strike with a stick, your movement stops and the energy is pushed into the target. With a stick you can put your entire body into the blow.
Which brings up an interesting point- inferior weapon that it might be, you can strike with nunchucks without committing your own momentum or center of balance into the attack, almost like how you don't have to commit to an attack with a spear.
spear > stick > nunchuck
Shad, you look great! Keep up the weight loss. Fantastic progress and you seem much more invigorated in your videos.
I love the ending, how the music accentuates Shad's point! PEACE! *thud* Well said Sir, well said..
A video from shad is always a welcomed addition to my day
"When you hit a man with a stick, you have one man hurt. When you hit a man with a nunchuchs, you have two men hurt." H. C. Andersen
"i think i have that right."
momentum is mass times velocity.
Impulse is a term that quantifies the overall effect of a force acting over time, or J=F⋅Δt
now that isn't the whole story. we have elasticity and compressibility. elasticity determines the rate of transfer both into changing the direction of the object and into the object struck. compressibility helps to determine the rate of transfer. low flexibility and low compressibillity transfers more force into an object rather than letting the projectile/weapon change direction. the flexibility of the whole weapon includes the person swinging it, which means the hand holding the stick tends to be the weak point, reducing the force transferring from the man to the weapon and into the object. this is why you 'snap' your punches, in order to transfer that force into the weapon (in this case your fists) as it hits the object. this is also why 2 hands works better than 1 hand. flexibility does increase the amount of contact time, but it does weaken the force transferred through the flex. that means that you want the nunchucks to bounce to increase the impulse, but force applied over time allows it to transfer through the target so that skin and bones don't have to handle the full amount at once and can spread that force out. that means that transfer of energy for damage should be short and high, thus impulse is not your friend with weapons. good for knocking people back or lifting objects, as it is how you make transfer of force gentler.
By that logic though, wouldn't longer impulse time be ideal? For example you're trying to transfer the pushing force of a strike into something like the human skull, you transfer that pushing force to cause the skull to strike the brain inside of it. On another note, surface level bruises and strikes that transfer force deeper into the body don't seem too comparable here. Either way, a flexible weapon's advantage isn't that it can deliver the same amount of damage as an unbroken kinetic chain of the same length. (I preface this statement with the fact that I have almost no martial arts experience what so ever), but I believe the greatest strength of flexible weapons is the greater burden it places on your opponent to control your weapon, so you are right that a nun-chuck is likely designed to have a shorter impact time,.
@@bungeetoons "By that logic though, wouldn't longer impulse time be ideal?" no. the force put into the skull moves it and then some of that force moves the brain. the strength of the strike of the skull into the brain is the difference in kinetic energy between the two, as the strike is the transfer of energy. if the energy transfer is slow then the difference of energy at any given moment is lower than if the energy transfer was rapid. thus a slow transfer of energy is a weaker strike of the skull into the brain. the distance the skull has to move to reach the brain dictates the 'margin of error' for the rate of transfer. if the time the transfer takes is less than the time it takes the skull to reach the brain the brain must absorb the force instantly (getting it up to speed of the skull) to not be deformed (which is impossible, hence the damage to the brain). same goes for joints in the body or anything else. the energy of the strike does travel through the body, so a low energy high impulse (short time of transfer) strike will cause bruises but not harm the bone underneath as the distance of the surface of the skin to the bone allows the energy to dissipate enough that it doesn't cause issues. if it was low energy and low impulse then the skin itself wouldn't be bruised. if it was high energy low impulse then the person would get shoved rather than get struck. if it is high energy and high impulse then the person has to deal with a shock wave of force traveling through his body.
nunchucks are lower energy than a stick, even of comparable length due to the flexible bit. when you carry through your strike with nunchucks the striking stick rotates on the target, which lengthens the time of contact. when you use a whip if you do this it doesn't strike as hard. if you crack a whip right on the target it strikes with much more force, and a similar thing happens with nunchucks (it is much harder to do, and Shad addresses this in his first video on nunchucks as it is impractical and causes bounceback) which allows for much shorter impulse with the same amount of energy transfer.
here's the thing tho
with nunchucks, there is only one initial impact before all of the momentum goes another direction, and based on how much the target pushes back the blow, half of the energy might not even go through with some strikes as it naturally gets redirected because of the nature of the weapon
with a stick, the force still follows through, you are driving that force in and even if it bounces off (which happens a lot) you are making the force continue into the target
also with the "this is why you 'snap' your punches" no, it is said that the idea punching point is when your arm is about extended by 80%, so it has a greater force, but so you can use the other 20% of your reach to make the force of the punch go all the way through. if you "snap" your punches, you are not allowing your punch's force to fully go through
so not only is your choice of weapon wack, but your fighting style is a mess too
if you still don't get it 15:28 this part explains it best
@@maskofmany9208 I don't think that the concept of the "driving /follow through force" matters all that much.
Lets consider the baseball batter following through on the swing, how much would that matter in comparison to not following through?
We can actually somewhat estimate that effect by looking at the slow motion video footage.
The bat is being swung for about 7 (slowed down) seconds of footage until it impacts the ball, the impact takes two frames.
It seems the footage has about 25 frames per second so the impact duration is a fraction of 2/175 of the total duration of the swing.
The energy imparted on the bat is the integral of the force that the player puts into it over time, it is reasonable to assume that the force is not going to vary too much over the swing but lets be extremely generous and assume that, at impact, the player somehow manages to have twice the force acting on the bat than the average over the swing so far. This still means that effectively the difference in energy the player but into the system by swinging through is only 4/175 or about 2.2% higher than not swinging through.
Also it should be considered that there is a way more reasonable explanations why swinging through is better:
It is impossible for a human to estimate the exact time of impact and start decelerating the bat exactly after the impact so players who don't follow through will probably be prone to either deceleration too early or holding back even before the initial impact.
If you actually wanted to estimate the difference between not following through and following through you could not use a player for that, you would need a machine that is specifically build so it can immediately let go of the bat upon impact.
Nerds
this guy makes the best videos awesome skill set man sticking to the point
Can't believe this is still going on, i thought the last couple video is enough information, and i actually still learning something new again
I've to tell you Shade, everytime I recieve a notification of any of your videos, is when I'm eating lunch. As I see it, I feel like a medieval monarch in a feast. You basically entertain me as well teach me something new and interesting. Hugs from Portugal and keep up the good work. :)
damn, i WISH i got his notifications during lunch. but it's always while I'm working. and i can't give Shad the proper attention while working so it has to wait until i get home, and i tend to play games when i get home so i load one up out of habit and then I've forgotten about Shad's video until the next morning. It's been over a month since the last time i watched a Shadiversity video same day it was uploaded
I love how you never just say "it's stupid" it's always and honest exploration of what's going on to address the questions. without attacking the questioner.
It was good to see you covering the Physics of Combat, as it is the most often overlooked aspect of the Martial Arts...
But one thing I didn't see you address was the difference between Momentum and Kinetics in Martial Application...
Especially since Both come down to Impulse Application...
BUT due to the math involved, it is Kinetics that does the Damage on impact...
Whereas Momentum moves your target as it imparts energy to it...
Kinetics dissipates its energy through either Heat or Deformation...
You want to use Kinetics to attack your target IF your objective is to impart damage to them...
And to do that most effectively, you need a strike that has a High Velocity coupled with an extremely short Impulse...
This is because Kinetics is 1/2 of the mass of object times its Velocity Squared...
Which means that a doubling of your Mass will result in a doubling of your Kinetic Energy...
But a doubling of your velocity will result in a 4 fold increase in Kinetic Energy...
This also means that, using leverage, you can swap some of your Mass for an increase in Velocity...
With Momentum on the other hand, the relationship between Mass and Velocity is One to One...
This is because Momentum is the Carrying Capacity of Energy...
Or to put it another way, "Momentum is the 'quantity of motion' that an object has"...
So it has the same Mathematical Formula as Energy...
(ie; Momentum = Mass * Energy)
But it also uses a much longer Impulse to transfer its Energy to a target...
As opposed to Dissipating over a shorter time interval (impulse) the way Kinetics does...
In combat though, I use both, but for very different applications...
Sometimes I want to move my opponent, so I'll use my mass to drive my Momentum through him...
Often by striking against his bodies flexion points (like the hip)...
or his balance point, in order to destabilize him...
Other times I want to damage my opponent, so I swap some of my mass, using leverage, to maximize my Velocity on impact...
This is most evident when I throw a Jab or Backfist, as I use the exact same Physics that you see in a whip...
to maximize my Kinetic Energy and thus Damage on Impact...
which makes my jabs as damaging as most people's (of similar mass) reverse punches...
And the best part of all this is that the same physics works whether your armed or unarmed...
It's just that using a Combat Tool, like a Hanbo, simply extends your Lever...
and thus your ability to generate Kinetic Energy...
Just keep in mind that when you strike your target, you DONT want them to move from the impact...
BECAUSE, once they start to move, you are no longer converting your energy to Deformation of your target...
Through Kinetic Energy...
But are instead transferring Momentum to them....
and thus, basically, just pushing them along...
Shad and nunchucks? This is going to be a treat.
I do not know if it works with sticks, but with punches you are supposed to use the weight of your whole body (or at least your upper body) instead of your arms strength. You can't transfer the power of your bodys inertia through chain.
As several others have already pointed out, I don't think adding more mass to the nunchuck is a particularly smart option, nor do I believe it would allow a nunchuck to surpass the basic stick. I've practiced with a Jō staff for around 10 years of my life, and the force you can generate with your own body weight is equivalent to... well... your body weight. If we're not talking usability but only maximum possible force, you'd need to add close to your own body weight to the nunchuck for it to be capable of similarly strong strikes, and I don't think I really need to point out how impossibly hard such a weapon would be to wield given how heavy we've just made it. Try attaching a handle to another human and wielding them like nunchucks, not gonna work.
Plus, a stick with a person on it would still be better than a string with a person on it. Stick wins again
I actually did that once. 3rd grade. I was the fat nerd who got picked on all the time. Dealing with my regular bullies, I picked up one and clubbed the other one with him. They neglected that the fat kid was a farm boy who was used to hauling hay bales.
It might actually be closer to 10% of the mass of a human due to the higher volocity a weapon should have than your body, but that would still make the nunchucks basically unusable.
@@lukediehl1210 moving bales in 3rd grade is fairly impressive.
@@garethbaus5471 Almost as though it's not true at all. ;) That being said, why do they make famers so weak in RPGs? Like seriously.....pound for pound they're usually the strongest common people you'll ever find. Most adventurers would most likely be farmers if they were a fighting class. Even the romans understood that city folk were usually less effective troops due to their physical inferiority.
Using baseball as an analogue, it would help drive the point home to have a nunchuck master hit a baseball with nunchucks, then have a baseball player hit a baseball with a baseball bat.
"Mom, the Australian man is out in the backyard again."
"That's good, honey."
"He's talking about physics and kinekic force and lere...lerage and hits a statue with a stick."
"Yes he does that."
Someone... somewhere... is writing a forbidden love story of Shad and Nunchucks having secret meetings behind an old tree in a park, wearing disguises.
Don't look at me! I can't write shit to save my life.
Wait a minute. The stick can fit only in one way. The nunchuchs however... Oh gods
@@szysi3k
Don't think about it!
Trust me... do _not_ think about it.
Momentum, impulse and velocity are well and good, but you''re missing an important scientific measurement.
Levity=Mass + Velocity + Rebound (Striking your own body with the weapon after impact)
My Word... This is Good stuff. I am student of physics and the Long sword. Your arguments regarding momentum, impuls and Force över time is spot on. I have a small nuget though, a pondering. I am considering the posibillity of conservation of angular momentum. What we are looking for is speed to of set the lower mass and impulse deficiency, so.... Consider a nuncuk strike;, momentum is imparted - Speed is proportional via centripetal acceleration to radius. If you mid strike pull the strike close you will shorten your rotational radius and increase rotational velocity through conservation of momentum. Call it an increase in Speed at the expense of reach. Will it be enough to of set the mighty stick. I don't know.
,,I am deforming the ball with the Force"
Shad is a Jedi master, confirmed.
I love how Shad is willing to learn so much to know the truth, and then present that to us and teach us in turn ♥
Science beats nunchucks!
Science doesn’t matter when you are hit in the head lol
Training for a spear: pointy end goes in that guy.
Training for a sword: pointy end goes in that guy. If not, try slicing.
Training for a dagger: stabby stabby
Training for a mace: thunk
Training for a club: thunk
Training for a warhammer: hook and smash
Training for nunchucks: hit the guy but keep going or you'll hit yourself. Keep track of the other side of the weapon, or you'll hit yourself. Even then, you'll probably hit yourself because the thing still bounces off a lot. Oh, and you'll need more room to swing, or you can't swing at all. Wait, there's more. What do you mean you'll just stick to the spear?
SPEAR : Thrust forward with own body weight pressed down into small of forward leg.
SWORD : Turn into the cut with your forearm and grip strength.
DAGGER : Repeatedly small thrusts in a open hand area of effect.
MACE : Aim for the joints hinges and spikes, try to counter hit and step forward.
CLUB : Well fine stop for a sandwich if you must!!
WARHAMMER : Look I said lunch, not gaming you will never be a warrior!!
NUNCHUCKS : Are you seriously having gender swap surgery now??
INSTA CATFISH : OMG you've gone full retard, stoppp!!!!
;)
I mean, training for sword can also be, “pointy side goes across that guy”, rather than just pointy end. I cannot imagine trying to effectively stab with a claymore.
@@endymallorn to be fair, I was making it as simple as I could.
There's this beautiful word that we have in the world of baseball that's known as followthrough. It is exactly what you are trying to explain. If our bats were nunchucks, then the ball would not fly nearly as far when we hit it. And it's important to continue to swing after the hit because of follow through. It is the difference between bunting a ball and a home run. Anything that stops all of its momentum after it makes contact isn't going to push back as hard as something that doesn't stop having momentum when it hits
The fact that this video was posted on April 1st is just icing on the cake.
Funny, I was just reminiscing on the video that kicked this off with my little brother yesterday, then got a continuation this morning. Thanks Shad!
Always enjoy a good physics class. :D
I saw the thumbnail and I was like "Are we doing this again?? Sweet!" I love the Stick vs Nunchacku saga.
Wow... My sister is currently studying for her physics major, and you sound almost exactly like her when she talks about homework. Very well put together, thanks!
16:03
Thank you for clarifying! Your previous analogy peeved me a bit (still does a bit, because it's not really like a Jackhammer), but your clarification here hit the nail on the head as to why that situation is actually not ideal and a martial artist would be trying to avoid it occurring, but that this is instead a reason why even a bad strike with a weapon with a static configuration is better on average.
A great test visually would be to see someone hit a few baseballs with a nunchuck and then with a stick.
I bet the baseball hit by nunchuck will not come close to going as far as the baseball hit with the stick.
If the nunchuck mechanics were "superior" why would we not use them in place of baseball sticks.. I mean bats?
#teamstick
That's bc nunchucks aren't as precise or as strong.
They are more of a show off street level (no guns) weapon.
They are just.. quick and chaotic. Imo okey enough.
@Z. Michael Gehlke Nun chucks and trampolines are more comparable because they both have give to them. The ground and the stick are both solid, so force imparted by each has a greater effect. The technical physics explanation is circumstance dependent; the point the physics video was making was that a change in momentum is easier to cause with a longer duration. They weren't concerned with whether that change was more or less, only that it happened. The rigidity or kinetic linkage is ultimately a more important factor, which happens to cause the increase of duration.
@Z. Michael Gehlke Simply not true.
Seeing how far a ball would fly is a direct result of the force imparted on the ball and how much potential damage you could create to do damage.
As Shad said, you're simply operating a much smaller stick with no leverage when using a nunchuck.
Take a 1 meter stick and split it in two, you're now down to 50 cm of lethality versus 1 meter.
On top of that, you can apply your own body as part of the weapon if there is a solid link. So that 1 meter stick is closer to a 130 cm long weapon that's also slightly heavier depending on the mechanical force you can assert through your pose.
The nun chuck has non of this, due to it being disjointed.
In fact, if you THREW your stick, it would be comparable to the force you'd achieve with the nun chuck, except the stick will be twice the length and size, so a thrown stick is a much fairer comparison, but it would still win.
Thrown stick is ass compared to one used in your hands normally though. The mechanics you impart on the weapon is so much greater for the stick.
It really is simple physics. I'm sure someone a lot smarter than me could do the math of the speed the nunchuck would need, to even approach the same amount of kinetic energy a stick would have, to show it would beat a nun chuck, even without the human element in it.
@Z. Michael Gehlke He explained in his previous video who he reacted to why the nunchuck does not "whip". Its not even close to what a whip does.
@Z. Michael Gehlke Internal damage is directly proportional to travel distance. Unless the nunchucks can function as scissors that direct force from two opposite direction, how much damage the target takes is directly related to the energy transferred and inertia of the target, and the inertia of a baseball is fixed.
I don't usually comment on RUclips but I couldn't resist. Although your explanation of the physics behind the force of the strike is correct there's a flaw in your logistics. You made your calculations based on the assumption that a stick and a nunchuck will always be traveling at the same speed, which would rarely be the case. Volocety places and important factor in the force of impact, best example a bullet-(small object going extremely fast produces. major force) A nunchuck because of the swinging effect of the chain or rope can be swung faster while using less effort, so realistically the nunchuck will traveling faster more often than not. Not only that it can produce multiple strikes off the recoil much faster than a stick. Add in the unpredictability of where the strike is coming from in the hands of someone skilled, and the nunchuck is a much more formable weapon than a stick
So much respect this is the 3rd time I've seen him debate about this
You could do an easy experiment to show how sticks hit "harder" (transfer energy better) than nunchucks: have the stick fixed on one end and able to rotate and basically build a pendulum, putting a ball directly below it. Let it fall from a horizontal position and see how far the ball goes when hit, then do the same with the nunchuck and you will see the ball go a shorter distance.
You can actually see how the nunchucks fail to complete the transferral of energy at around 23:50. I think that they CAN hit *as hard* as a stick- they can produce almost just as much energy, as the statistics examples showed, but like Shad said, thats not the problem- the problem is *transferring* that energy.
A battery full of electrical energy is useless if your cable can't transfer that energy fast enough to run the tech it's wired to. Hell, a larger battery may hold more energy, and even be able to *technically* output more as a result- but if the cable it's using to transfer energy can't handle that much, or is too inefficient, the amount and output of that energy is basically rendered useless.
I have a very very hard time believing that Shad uploaded a serious video about nunchucks, which he knows is the most controversial point across his whole channel, on April Fools of all days
Fr tho:
Love your videos Shad
I think they are super super interesting and very entertaining.
Also thanks for a better momentum lesson than given by my physics teacher lol
Excellent video. Well done.
Awesome job shad
Also, History proves which weapon was better. The stick type of weapons could murder faster, smoother, and more gracefully in a match than a nunchuck style weapon ever could. And whats more, you barely need training with stick type weapons! Meanwhile, nunchuck users half the time have to be practically gifted to be able to much of anything, that or train the same amount as a magician
With a stick you're focusing on hiting. With nunchucs you have to divert some of your focus to dodging your own weapon...
I’ve never seen more dedication to disproving the nunchuck then this, but I approve
The Nunchuck has not been disproved.
It is same as idiots defending Russian mass murderers. Facts disagree against dedication. Tell me why American police use nunchaku?
The power of stick prevails. Carry on Shad.
Shad: "This is a serious discussion"
Me looking at the date: 🤔
These discussions always remind me of a particular Mythbusters segment that has stuck out in my mind to this day. The segment involved testing a scene from the old Hellboy movie in which Hellboy slams his massive fist into the hood of a car coming at him, causing it to flip clean over him as a result. The test they devised involved dropping a large metal fist onto the hood of a moving car with the necessary momentum to impart the assumed force. While I understand it was likely the most viable test they were able to perform, I was immediately able to see how inaccurate to the original scene it was, and everything was centered around the "tennis match of forces" as you put it. (22:23 vs 22:27)
Yep, the higher velocity of Hellboy's hand would absolutely be necessary for a flip. (The punch still wasn't hard enough to flip a car, but a relatively slow object like the fist the myth busters were using couldn't achieve a similar result no matter how much mass it had.
"this isn't a troll video to make fun of nunchucks" it's 1st of April. my trust issues don't allow me to believe you.
Shad is absolutly correct with "tenis game between the forces" and it's something I use to a great extend while playing drums
And so Shad continues with the saga, can't wait to see how it ends, this is the biggest most important moment of the century
Would love to see testing on ballistic gel dummies. Of course, the zombie version, so there's less chance of getting demonitised. (The Elder Gods of RUclips: "Green blood is okay," as shown by Demolition Ranch and Kentucky Ballistics, recently. 😁)
Even better: Purple or blue blood :D Also, thanks for making me want to track down the entire series of Mythbusters... Right before I go to bed...
That helps for soft tissue, but you'd probably need green wood for bone analogs.
@@patrickjanecke5894 The ones that they use have organ and bone analogs already. Can show pretty realistic damage.
Shad, I really like your content and have a question that I'd like to see you cover, if possible.
One of my friends mentioned off hand that early Scandinavians during the Viking period unwittingly made crude steel by mixing the ashes of bones of family members or animals in the spiritual belief that it would make their weapons stronger, and the carbon present from the bones would bond with the iron and make a crude alloy.
I don't know how true this is, but I think it could be an interesting topic to make a video on!
Interesting, now I also want to see that in a video
Dragonbone weapons are basically dragon steel?
I love it.
Not only family members, they also used bones from animals to capture the strength of the spirit in the steel. (Allegedly.)
Been rewatching Dardevil for the fourth time and the way they depict his sticks in the show is really cool in my opinion. It can go from being a billy club, to nunchucks, to a ranged projectile when thrown. Not to mention the cord that can be used as a grapple hook or to choke someone out. I know it's not "relevant" in the algorithm right now, but there's a lot of attention to detail in that show and all the Marvel Netflix shows that put the modern shows to shame. I'd be curious to see your coverage on them, or at least Daredevil. If not on this channel, maybe on Knight's Watch? A guy can dream. It's more refreshing than ever in this day and age where Disney is creatively bankrupt and the shows have such waning quality.
We should combine the two largest debates going on with your channel.
What hits harder, the glorious and ever-transcendent stick?
Or the crushing realization that all you have to do to get the "essentials" for Elden Ring's story is pay attention?
Trolling aside, fantastic video, Shad. Great content as always!