Those synthetic grease packets are almost as bad as anti sieze. In 30+ years I still am puzzled at how a drop of anti sieze on the tip of your finger at 1:15 pm, will be inside the back of your knees, under both arms, and have your face looking like the tin man from wizard of oz by 1:17pm..
That’s a really nice kit. I’ve wondered if anyone with a Bridgeport style mill has setup a Tormach type drawbar. Did you think about using that type before going this route?
Absolutely agree! Oddly I just stopped wiring an interlock on my home-brewed power drawbar for my Bridgeport to watch this video! I put a limit switch on the operating lever with N/O and N/C contacts. The N/C contacts break the control voltage to the spindle motor contactor and the N/O are wired to a solenoid valve in the air feed to the drawbar engage pneumatic cylinder and air motor. Not 100% foolproof because of the spindle run-down time but should stop me doing anything totally stupid!
Long shafted tools are much easier to control and keep perpendicular, so I'm with you on that for tapping. Another nice upgrade, even without a permanently installed tap fragment.
I replaced the whole manifold on my California Air Tools compressor. It had a leak and I found that the manifold casting had holes in many of the mating surfaces and threads. Cutting new ones a little deeper just revealed more casting imperfections. So I designed a new manifold from the ground up, and it’s been great. I have 3 independent regulators so that I can have an air nozzle, a die grinder, and an impact driver all on the same manifold. Let me know and I can send pictures, models, and drawings.
My 2 gallon Cal Air compressor had the pressure reg knob hissing problem. So, I took it the valve all apart, to find a plastic part was sticking. I added some grease and smoothed out the fit, then put it all back together. It's been fine for several years since. At first, I was mad that this otherwise nice quiet compressor had broken so soon. But as is the case with tools made to a price, we add our TLC to bring the quality up to snuff.
I was hoping you would do a Dave Jones and take it apart! Also on the compressor, because of where you have yours you could just ditch the built in regulator and bring the full tank pressure off the compressor then run it to a regulator on the wall before it is distributed in the shop.
Pressure regulators are usually standardized across manufacturers to avoid liability. Just get on Amazon and pick one rated for your compressor. California air is considered a very good brand and very quiet. I would happily trade my working 5 gallon Porter Cable for yours, broken or not. 😂
the 20gal masterforce "ultra quiet" compressor from menards has served me pretty well. A lot quieter than a normal compressor, but i dont know how it compares to the one you have.
I have to think California Air Tools would have a solution for you. They really are the quietest on the market. Hard to beat. And, I think most of the "ultra quiet" models by other brands are being white labeled by them. They all have the same form factor.
@ 9:00 you attach the hose that doesn't allow you to rotate the head. I don't want to be that dick Monday morning QB. lol Please don't take this as a criticism. I'm just thinking you might need some extra slack in that tube. :) Edit: I spoke too soon. You've already noticed this issue. :)
I picked up a Harbor Freight Fortress "Ultra Quiet" compressor a few months back, which is basically a clone of the CAT model you have, but at 2/3rd the price (and actually available where I live). Have been very impressed with it so far, I have it sitting right next to my CNC computer cart and it's crazy how quiet it is compared to normal compressors. I keep it pressurized all the time (although powered off) and no leaking... yet. lol. Also, have never seen an impact-style power drawbar -- have only seen the spring washer/clamping type.
How did the old timers do it? I usually break the tension then grab the end mill or whatever tool is in the mill and then hand loosen from there. Tool comes out and everything is super-duper happy. Never had an issue so far.
Yeah, this is exactly what I normally do, and how I dropped it. I broke the tension, and it dropped. Usually, it will stick until I tap the drawbar, but not this time. But to be fair, we all know the dropped end mill is just a thin excuse to buy new tools. :)
@@Clough42 HA HA HA!!!! Good one. Can never have too many tools. I did break an end mill but it wasn't on the machine and thankfully it was a chip break and I had it re-ground.
You might consider installing an adjustable restriction in the air line from the switch to the motor, the closeting side only, and tune it to control the rapid run up. If the release is also too violent, then do the same for that line to the motor. It's not just the pressure, but the volume that causes a harsh application/release with pneumatic actuators. Tim
Matching the curvature of the air hoses might even exceed my level of OCD. I was wondering how the PDB would work with R8 and TTS where you just want to loosen, not remove. I switched over to NMTB30 many years ago. Maybe an update once you have some time with it. I remember some R8 getting pretty stuck, and I wonder if the impacting would always be enough to bust them loose.
Wow that's a nice kit! Looks like lots of new things coming to the precision matthews lineup (CNC lathes, new chucks, etc) - I wish there was a plug and play kit like this for my 833
If it is just a regulator leaking... Why not just replace the regulator. Its a standard panel mount regulator if I remember on the video where you repaired it. Just a jellybean part you can swap with another better one. Maybe I am forgetting the details.
Nevermind, I just looked back and it was integrated into a manifold. But for someone with a plasma cutter... A couple of panel mount gauges, tees, and regulator... You could replace that whole front panel. If the compressor is good otherwise that is.
This would be my suggestion. There are plenty of high quality pneumatic control manufacturers. Festo or Fairchild perhaps???? I'm not sure who is going to have a model that will plug & play with the dimensions of your California Air, but I'm sure somebody has one. *** Have a look in McMaster. Don't they have almost every item modeled in 3D? It would make it a lot easier to search across brands than digging through each manufacturer's website.
Hi James, I was hoping you would come up with a solution for adding spindle oil from the top, with the power drawbar, without removing it. I have the same unit (I can't work without it). I was thinking of drilling a hole on the diameter of the base plate to another hole, over the spindle, and adding a Gits oil cup. Your thoughts? Love your content, thanks for the video.
Knowing what impact tools can do to threads over a long time (time here depending on how much over-torque / hammering occurs), I am not a fan of air-impact powered collet draw bars. I haven't dropped a tool out of the spindle in many years, either, as I either use a soft bunched up catch towel or have one work glove protected hand on the cutter / drill chuck / whatever until it is secure, and use a bungee to pull the brake handle, or just tighten the spindle wrench against the momentum of the spindle, while i snug the drawbar enough to hold the tool in the collet. Then give a final pull on the wrench using the brake. I also keep the threads and thrust face of the drawbar oiled with EP gear oil. One thing I find fairly universal is machinists who believe the drawbar has to be torqued "good n tight" i.e. to beyond 15 ft-lbs. I've never had to do that. That's just overkill.
Makita makes some quiet compressors, I've had very good luck with mine. Mine is smaller, not sure what they have in the size you would want. It is heavier but runs at lower RPM.
You do buy all of the kool tools. I like the way you think out every detail. I was about to comment about tilting the head with the short tube when you beat me to it. Great minds think alike and all that.
sounds like youre rotating the tyres on the car... Can't suggest a new compressor brand, but I recently went with one of the "silent" style units, and I love it. Barely know when it engages, no deafening noise in the shop making you jump in the air and toss tools across the room when it kicks in unexpectedly like with the old shed rattler.
I was at a place that had a power drawbard settup. Forgot the brand. But if i tried to take a .002 chip load on half inch endmills on anealed tool amd milld steel, they would break. I had to use a pathetic half thou chip load. Could you inform me on what issues could have been going on that i wasnt aware of. I was conventional milling too.
lol OCD FTW, I would have done the same thing... Doesn't matter I would have a piece of tubing left over, as long as they were the same on the machine.
We have those exact same pneumatic drawbar and mill in my school We haven't had the best track record with them though as they usually don't have enough torque to push out the tool so we have to take the thing off and do it by hand
They really are a nice addition to a mill. Big time saver plus 2 less wrenches cluttering up the place 😊. A rare occurrence to have an accessory go on like it should lol. Cheers!
I know someone who bought the little .5hp Fortress, and it's super quiet. I bought the California Air Tools based on the expectation that it was a premium brand and I'd have a trouble-free experience. I like the compressor, but if my experience is not going to be much different from the HF alternative, it's hard to justify the dollars.
Heh. I just bought a 1/2 inch drive ratchet and a 5/8 socket separate from my standard tool set just so I could leave it at the Mill. I was frustrated by the tools that came with the mill and did not want use the low quality wrench that came with the machine anymore. Not to say that I’m not a bit envious of your power drawbar system. It’s spiffy as hell. But Mine is a PM727 and the drawbar is a little too close to the motor for a fancy kit like you have. That’s a darned fine shop you’ve put together. Out of curiosity do you have other friends with shops who inspire capabilities or layout desires or is RUclips kinda your… uhhh, call it a shop spirit animal?
It's a combination of a lot of things. I grew up around my grandpa's farm shop, "helping" him fix just about everything. I have a couple of friends locally with shops, and have met a bunch of great people through the RUclips machinist community.
California air tools is a joke. I bought a $400 compressor from them a year ago and I still haven't been able to use it. The pressure regulator was installed backwards and broken and shipping because of the way it was installed. They set me a new regulator, but it's not even a fully assembled regulator. Son the proud owner of a $400 paper weight that's way too dam heavy for paper.
Mine arrived with a leaking drain valve and a broken motor fan grill. I called them, and they sent me replacement parts. I grumbled while I installed them, and then went on with my life.
Even as tall as you are I don't see how you could use a manual draw bar without a step stool. Not being that tall I knew I would quickly tire of climbing a ladder to tighten a collet and I ordered my collet closer with the mill. It took me longer to install mine as I kept having length problems with the drawbar. Still it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
James, I have one of these that I got a while back, but have never gotten around to installing. Main concern was noise, the shop is directly below our bedroom and certainly don't want to wake the wife on those late nights! Approximately how loud would you say this is? Any common shop tools you'd compare it to volume wise? As an aside, I have a HF McGraw 175pso 21 gallon compressor that I'm pretty happy with. It's not too loud and wasn't too expensive. Was a nice middle ground between price/volume
It sounds very much like an air impact. It's not quiet. Honestly, that surprised me a little, mostly because I just hadn't thought about it. A muffler (more than the little diffuser that came with it) might help, but the impact hammers are still going to clatter.
I wired a motor started in with my shop lights and connected my old noisy 80 gallon air compressor. Now the compressor can only run while I'm there working and neither the neighbors nor the wife will be awakened at 3 AM.
We have same exact Power draw bar on our school (that I teach) 2 axis Trak Mill - hybrid CNC and Manual machine - with R8 Collets Only issues we ever have is that collets get stuck in spindle some times and eventually some one strips the drawbar. I think many are over tightened. I prefer to use solid R8 holders with common endmills and also a solid holder keyless drill chuck. Good luck
The valves take a firm press, so the main problem would be human error--just hitting the button out of muscle memory. But since that muscle memory would also have me grabbing the spinning tool, I think there would be bigger problems.
@@Clough42 so... more broken end mills I guess. Well grabbing a x thousand fast spinning and falling bayblade is maybe a little more resistant to grabbing than just pressing a button. Still a fast and falling tool with holder tho. Wait what would even happen if you engage it with the tool spinning? Wouldn't the draw bar motor get overpowered or more like catastrophic failures?
The air motor is an impact style, the impacts wont act against the drawbar with the spindle spinning, we use these in a production shop and safety wouldnt allow us to use them without an interlock if the tool could come out.
That could get expensive. Back in 2020 when everyone was scrambling for toilet paper, the rolls of shop towels at Costco got a lot smaller for the same price. I guess they discovered it didn't hurt sales, because the larger rolls haven't come back.
Hah, I have the very same mill, though the pulley version, and sure enough, while threading the holes for the VFD, "snap", and much cursing followed. I don't know what it is about that cast metal... it's fairly easy to drill but taps don't seem to like it very much.
Hey James, I have the Eastwood QST 30/60 compressor. It does require 220V though. I can't compare it to a CAT compressor, as I've never been around one. But if I'm not in the same 'room' of my garage when it turns on, I usually don't notice that it was even running until it turns off and the pressure switch lets out the excess pressure. Thanks for the vid- I also have a PM 935 and had wondered about the power drawbar kit.
You gotta love how changing a tool now sounds like an F1 pitstop (or nascar, or indiecar, or any motorsport - just being inclusive for everyone!)!!! With a noise like that I could just sit there all day changing tools just for the sound!!!! I'd be a crap machinist!
Checked PM's prices and they seem OK. Wish they had one for an 'Merican Bridgeport (not clone)! I bought a Tormach PCNC1100 power drawbar this year at the Bash from Tom Lipton (great deal!). Totally different set up and only works with the TTS as you're just de-tensioning the drawbar enough to drop out a TTS holder. It does NOT unthread the drawbar but compresses belleville washers instead. Once installed, you can ONLY use the TTS system without removing the air cylinder.
I too have a PM mill and have purchased and installed a power draw bar. I have managed to drop and chip end mills with it. With more time 'tho I seem to have managed to learn how to release the end mill (or what have you) very gradually so it doesn't drop AND to be sure only release the draw bar when if all else fails and the part drops it has a VERY limited distance to drop. Frankly the appeal of a floor mounted brake pedal is appealing but so far I've managed to procrastinate on that. I only recently found you channel and very much enjoy it.
That’s the way to push our buttons …….. 👍👍😂👍👍. James, you are already incredibly productive. I suspect adding this powered drawbar will free up some frustrating time that will coincidentally provide us even more quality and interesting content. Good choice. 👏👏
Hey James - thanks for reviewing. I’m looking to upgrade my mill and this is one I’ve been looking at and I was thinking about this accessory. I bought a new compressor recently - from a near by Lowes’s - it a Kobalt brand, 26 gal “Quiet Tech” - and I really like it. I can have it running and stand next to it and talk to someone in a normal voice. Love your channel, keep up the good work.
I also had a California air compressor with a leaky air regulator. I took the regulator off to replace it and then it wouldn’t turn on. Had to fix the air switch but now it’s auto on all the time. Ended up getting a 4HP scroll compressor instead.
Yep, the compressor is one of the problems you will always have, one of the reasons back in 2013 I opted for a 24 volt electric actuator type draw bar for my Skyfire CNC mill.....I have ISO 20 tooling so the draw bar is different to yours in that it is a Bellville washer spring loaded type and the actuator only has to move 6mm to unlock the tool holder........some time after getting the mill the actuator burnt out due to it being over powered to 36 volts....manufacturer over sight.........they assumed the drawbar would only be hit momentarily for each clamp and unclamp.......well and good but after a week it failed.....rebuild on the way. I would suggest a bigger air tank or long pipe type system you pump up only once in a while but it does take up some room if it's a cylindrical type ....the pipe type consists of several long steel pipes 150mm diam placed in the roof of the shop and out of the way.
The spindle motor probably dos not get very hot while using it, maybe be a custom box around it wit sound demping material will take care of your sound irritation. A test setup with a cardboard box and sound demping material would give you the answer. Maybe a nice little project.
thank you for everything you do for the lovers of mechanical manufacturing and the new technology for digitizing machine tools and for turning and milling (poor unfortunates)
I have an air command AC15 compressor. Unfortunately it is 3hp as we have 230V supply here in NZ, so probably not much use to you. Other than that, Air Command is actually a good brand.
I just use R8 tool holders with an electric 3/8" ratchet for a "power drawbar." R8 tool holder is much more rigid than collets and the tool length in the tool table remains the same after tool changes. Collets and TTS toolholders I use for chamfer bit, drills, and small endmills.
I have a 1969 Bridgeport series 1. My problem is I am too short [5'9"] for the Bridgeport drawbar. I bought a 24.75" Lagun drawbar from Enco that sticks out the top. I had to chase the threads [would not fit in the R8] and make a centering collar, but it has been working for 7 years.
Excellent video, I am in the process of ordering one for my South Bend SB1024F. This made a lot more sense for the measuring process to get my new drawbar in the correct size.
James, I am SERIOUSLY disappointed that you payed retail price for this product. The fact that you didn’t leverage your channel into receiving this product for free is not only fiscally irresponsible, it’s disrespectful, to yourself and all of your hard work. Honestly, i think you should expect better from yourself…
The spring loaded "unloader doo-dad" on mine kept failing to seat and seal when it started. It would hiss for a long time before maybe sealing. I fussed with the spring tension until I finally gave up and eventually tossed the spring. No problems and it seals every time now. If I want to put the spring back in later I think that it rolled under the mill for safe keeping.
Looks like a nice set up, I just may do that to my PM950-V I never thought I needed that but I use one at work some and I kinda like it. Makes Changing tools ok without getting my step stool.
Scroll compressor will definitely be much quieter than piston. Probably has a pro-sumer price to match. I’d also consider an air dryer as part of the upgrade.
Here's the one I bought, but they're available everywhere for cheap. It's basically a razor blade in a big plastic clothespin: www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/pneumatic_components/flexible_pneumatic_tubing_-a-_hoses/flexible_pneumatic_tubing_-a-_hoses_accessories/tc-12
Those synthetic grease packets are almost as bad as anti sieze. In 30+ years I still am puzzled at how a drop of anti sieze on the tip of your finger at 1:15 pm, will be inside the back of your knees, under both arms, and have your face looking like the tin man from wizard of oz by 1:17pm..
Love your shop set-up. Sunday morning enjoy watching your shop improvement.👍👍
Very nice video, straight forward and clear.
That’s a really nice kit. I’ve wondered if anyone with a Bridgeport style mill has setup a Tormach type drawbar. Did you think about using that type before going this route?
Another option is what I use. The tormach TTS tooling and a 3/4 collet with the face ground flush.
Looks nice. I would think an interlock would be a good add on to keep from ejecting a tool by accident if the spindle is turning. Thanks for sharing!
Absolutely agree! Oddly I just stopped wiring an interlock on my home-brewed power drawbar for my Bridgeport to watch this video!
I put a limit switch on the operating lever with N/O and N/C contacts. The N/C contacts break the control voltage to the spindle motor contactor and the N/O are wired to a solenoid valve in the air feed to the drawbar engage pneumatic cylinder and air motor. Not 100% foolproof because of the spindle run-down time but should stop me doing anything totally stupid!
if the spindle is turning, the impacts of the drawbar motor won't loosen the tool. We have had these for 15ish years in a production shop.
Long shafted tools are much easier to control and keep perpendicular, so I'm with you on that for tapping.
Another nice upgrade, even without a permanently installed tap fragment.
I replaced the whole manifold on my California Air Tools compressor. It had a leak and I found that the manifold casting had holes in many of the mating surfaces and threads. Cutting new ones a little deeper just revealed more casting imperfections. So I designed a new manifold from the ground up, and it’s been great. I have 3 independent regulators so that I can have an air nozzle, a die grinder, and an impact driver all on the same manifold. Let me know and I can send pictures, models, and drawings.
I think I use the same safety sandals you have. 😅
also...very cool upgrade for the mill.
My 2 gallon Cal Air compressor had the pressure reg knob hissing problem. So, I took it the valve all apart, to find a plastic part was sticking. I added some grease and smoothed out the fit, then put it all back together. It's been fine for several years since.
At first, I was mad that this otherwise nice quiet compressor had broken so soon. But as is the case with tools made to a price, we add our TLC to bring the quality up to snuff.
"Here's a half-inch end mill, free the one I dropped," he said without a hint of bitterness in his voice.
I was hoping you would do a Dave Jones and take it apart!
Also on the compressor, because of where you have yours you could just ditch the built in regulator and bring the full tank pressure off the compressor then run it to a regulator on the wall before it is distributed in the shop.
That's not a bad idea.
@@Clough42 First I'd try replacing that suspect seal with teflon tape, assuming you can't find a proper replacement.
Pressure regulators are usually standardized across manufacturers to avoid liability. Just get on Amazon and pick one rated for your compressor. California air is considered a very good brand and very quiet. I would happily trade my working 5 gallon Porter Cable for yours, broken or not. 😂
Permanently installed taps…. Those are lonely moments…
the 20gal masterforce "ultra quiet" compressor from menards has served me pretty well. A lot quieter than a normal compressor, but i dont know how it compares to the one you have.
I mean, a California Air Tools is probably what the Masterforce is a clone of...
I have to think California Air Tools would have a solution for you. They really are the quietest on the market. Hard to beat.
And, I think most of the "ultra quiet" models by other brands are being white labeled by them. They all have the same form factor.
@ 9:00 you attach the hose that doesn't allow you to rotate the head. I don't want to be that dick Monday morning QB. lol Please don't take this as a criticism. I'm just thinking you might need some extra slack in that tube. :)
Edit: I spoke too soon. You've already noticed this issue. :)
I picked up a Harbor Freight Fortress "Ultra Quiet" compressor a few months back, which is basically a clone of the CAT model you have, but at 2/3rd the price (and actually available where I live). Have been very impressed with it so far, I have it sitting right next to my CNC computer cart and it's crazy how quiet it is compared to normal compressors. I keep it pressurized all the time (although powered off) and no leaking... yet. lol. Also, have never seen an impact-style power drawbar -- have only seen the spring washer/clamping type.
How did the old timers do it? I usually break the tension then grab the end mill or whatever tool is in the mill and then hand loosen from there. Tool comes out and everything is super-duper happy. Never had an issue so far.
Yeah, this is exactly what I normally do, and how I dropped it. I broke the tension, and it dropped. Usually, it will stick until I tap the drawbar, but not this time. But to be fair, we all know the dropped end mill is just a thin excuse to buy new tools. :)
@@Clough42 HA HA HA!!!! Good one. Can never have too many tools. I did break an end mill but it wasn't on the machine and thankfully it was a chip break and I had it re-ground.
You might consider installing an adjustable restriction in the air line from the switch to the motor, the closeting side only, and tune it to control the rapid run up. If the release is also too violent, then do the same for that line to the motor.
It's not just the pressure, but the volume that causes a harsh application/release with pneumatic actuators.
Tim
Worth thinking about. There is a minimum to get it to pull in and engage the splines.
Matching the curvature of the air hoses might even exceed my level of OCD. I was wondering how the PDB would work with R8 and TTS where you just want to loosen, not remove. I switched over to NMTB30 many years ago. Maybe an update once you have some time with it. I remember some R8 getting pretty stuck, and I wonder if the impacting would always be enough to bust them loose.
Wow that's a nice kit! Looks like lots of new things coming to the precision matthews lineup (CNC lathes, new chucks, etc) - I wish there was a plug and play kit like this for my 833
If it is just a regulator leaking... Why not just replace the regulator. Its a standard panel mount regulator if I remember on the video where you repaired it. Just a jellybean part you can swap with another better one. Maybe I am forgetting the details.
Nevermind, I just looked back and it was integrated into a manifold. But for someone with a plasma cutter... A couple of panel mount gauges, tees, and regulator... You could replace that whole front panel. If the compressor is good otherwise that is.
Oh, I hadn't thought of that. There's no reason I couldn't.
This would be my suggestion.
There are plenty of high quality pneumatic control manufacturers.
Festo or Fairchild perhaps????
I'm not sure who is going to have a model that will plug & play with the dimensions of your California Air, but I'm sure somebody has one.
*** Have a look in McMaster. Don't they have almost every item modeled in 3D? It would make it a lot easier to search across brands than digging through each manufacturer's website.
Kind of a flimsy excuse to buy a $800 power drawbar...I love it !
I like my torque-rite. Has worked flawlessly for me. Upgraded to better quality air tubing from Hose Power. No kinks and seals better.
Just pull the brake and lock it that’s why it has a cam radius on the pivot it gives me both hands free .That’s how my Bridgeport works anyways
Hi James, I was hoping you would come up with a solution for adding spindle oil from the top, with the power drawbar, without removing it. I have the same unit (I can't work without it). I was thinking of drilling a hole on the diameter of the base plate to another hole, over the spindle, and adding a Gits oil cup. Your thoughts? Love your content, thanks for the video.
Knowing what impact tools can do to threads over a long time (time here depending on how much over-torque / hammering occurs), I am not a fan of air-impact powered collet draw bars. I haven't dropped a tool out of the spindle in many years, either, as I either use a soft bunched up catch towel or have one work glove protected hand on the cutter / drill chuck / whatever until it is secure, and use a bungee to pull the brake handle, or just tighten the spindle wrench against the momentum of the spindle, while i snug the drawbar enough to hold the tool in the collet. Then give a final pull on the wrench using the brake. I also keep the threads and thrust face of the drawbar oiled with EP gear oil. One thing I find fairly universal is machinists who believe the drawbar has to be torqued "good n tight" i.e. to beyond 15 ft-lbs. I've never had to do that. That's just overkill.
Makita makes some quiet compressors, I've had very good luck with mine. Mine is smaller, not sure what they have in the size you would want. It is heavier but runs at lower RPM.
You do buy all of the kool tools. I like the way you think out every detail. I was about to comment about tilting the head with the short tube when you beat me to it. Great minds think alike and all that.
sounds like youre rotating the tyres on the car... Can't suggest a new compressor brand, but I recently went with one of the "silent" style units, and I love it. Barely know when it engages, no deafening noise in the shop making you jump in the air and toss tools across the room when it kicks in unexpectedly like with the old shed rattler.
My father work in big metal works company but he is from accounting backgrounds
I was at a place that had a power drawbard settup. Forgot the brand. But if i tried to take a .002 chip load on half inch endmills on anealed tool amd milld steel, they would break. I had to use a pathetic half thou chip load. Could you inform me on what issues could have been going on that i wasnt aware of. I was conventional milling too.
lol OCD FTW, I would have done the same thing... Doesn't matter I would have a piece of tubing left over, as long as they were the same on the machine.
I've had my Makita 3gal compressor for about 18 months. So far, not a single glitch. It's super quiet, and refills very fast.
Nice! But what happens to the air tubes when/if you tilt the spindle head?
I like this type over the spring washer type, I have heard a lot of issues of tool pull out. Congrats James!
Don't worry I've lost count of the taps I've "installed"
We have those exact same pneumatic drawbar and mill in my school
We haven't had the best track record with them though as they usually don't have enough torque to push out the tool so we have to take the thing off and do it by hand
yes dont buy a commufornia air tools buy a quincy ive had great service out of mine no hickups in 4 years
Nice work, isn't it nice to just fit an upgrade that works straight out of the box. Happy days. Thanks for sharing.
They really are a nice addition to a mill. Big time saver plus 2 less wrenches cluttering up the place 😊.
A rare occurrence to have an accessory go on like it should lol.
Cheers!
Yeah, I totally expected to have to modify something.
Does it come in rose gold?
13:13 - I keep thinking. "One day, it's going to pinch you".
a rubber sheet shim between the air motor and housing so as not to make viscous banging sound upon activation?
Plug'n'play. Nice addition to your mill 😁. I will have to DIY one for mine 😅
Has anyone modified it to fit a PM833TV?
I’ve been using my HF fortress quite compressor for my than 6months now -and of course the price is much better - it’s a possibility 😀
I know someone who bought the little .5hp Fortress, and it's super quiet. I bought the California Air Tools based on the expectation that it was a premium brand and I'd have a trouble-free experience. I like the compressor, but if my experience is not going to be much different from the HF alternative, it's hard to justify the dollars.
Very very nice. It looks nice also.
@9:00 you cut that air hose too short. You won't be able to rotate the head of the mill.
Clough42 and a mark or what.thanks
Bit disappointed with the lack Health & Safety warrior comments concerning your safety Flip Flops…..😂😂
Some people are apparently really into feet.
friends dont let friends skip leg day.
Heh. I just bought a 1/2 inch drive ratchet and a 5/8 socket separate from my standard tool set just so I could leave it at the Mill. I was frustrated by the tools that came with the mill and did not want use the low quality wrench that came with the machine anymore. Not to say that I’m not a bit envious of your power drawbar system. It’s spiffy as hell. But Mine is a PM727 and the drawbar is a little too close to the motor for a fancy kit like you have. That’s a darned fine shop you’ve put together. Out of curiosity do you have other friends with shops who inspire capabilities or layout desires or is RUclips kinda your… uhhh, call it a shop spirit animal?
It's a combination of a lot of things. I grew up around my grandpa's farm shop, "helping" him fix just about everything. I have a couple of friends locally with shops, and have met a bunch of great people through the RUclips machinist community.
California air tools is a joke. I bought a $400 compressor from them a year ago and I still haven't been able to use it. The pressure regulator was installed backwards and broken and shipping because of the way it was installed. They set me a new regulator, but it's not even a fully assembled regulator. Son the proud owner of a $400 paper weight that's way too dam heavy for paper.
Mine arrived with a leaking drain valve and a broken motor fan grill. I called them, and they sent me replacement parts. I grumbled while I installed them, and then went on with my life.
Even as tall as you are I don't see how you could use a manual draw bar without a step stool. Not being that tall I knew I would quickly tire of climbing a ladder to tighten a collet and I ordered my collet closer with the mill. It took me longer to install mine as I kept having length problems with the drawbar. Still it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I had no problem reaching it, and I have a 4" lift under the mill. This is the 9x35, though, so it might be shorter than yours.
James, I have one of these that I got a while back, but have never gotten around to installing. Main concern was noise, the shop is directly below our bedroom and certainly don't want to wake the wife on those late nights! Approximately how loud would you say this is? Any common shop tools you'd compare it to volume wise?
As an aside, I have a HF McGraw 175pso 21 gallon compressor that I'm pretty happy with. It's not too loud and wasn't too expensive. Was a nice middle ground between price/volume
Like an impact spinning off a loose lugnut db level.
It sounds very much like an air impact. It's not quiet. Honestly, that surprised me a little, mostly because I just hadn't thought about it. A muffler (more than the little diffuser that came with it) might help, but the impact hammers are still going to clatter.
I wired a motor started in with my shop lights and connected my old noisy 80 gallon air compressor. Now the compressor can only run while I'm there working and neither the neighbors nor the wife will be awakened at 3 AM.
Imagine if your ceiling wasn't high enough to install the new drawbar...
I sense you speak from experience Neil? I don't have to imagine - I have to tilt the head to remove the drawbar - 7'-10" mill, 8' -6" ceiling.....
when you have all the cool toys LOL
We have same exact Power draw bar on our school (that I teach) 2 axis Trak Mill - hybrid CNC and Manual machine - with R8 Collets
Only issues we ever have is that collets get stuck in spindle some times and eventually some one strips the drawbar. I think many are over tightened. I prefer to use solid R8 holders with common endmills and also a solid holder keyless drill chuck. Good luck
I love this channel!
Maybe an interlock that prevents air to the motor when the mill is running? May prevent any bumpy situations with buttons/valves?
It would have to be an additional pneumatic valve at the air inlet. A bit of a hassle, but totally doable.
The valves take a firm press, so the main problem would be human error--just hitting the button out of muscle memory. But since that muscle memory would also have me grabbing the spinning tool, I think there would be bigger problems.
@@Clough42 so... more broken end mills I guess. Well grabbing a x thousand fast spinning and falling bayblade is maybe a little more resistant to grabbing than just pressing a button. Still a fast and falling tool with holder tho.
Wait what would even happen if you engage it with the tool spinning? Wouldn't the draw bar motor get overpowered or more like catastrophic failures?
The air motor is an impact style, the impacts wont act against the drawbar with the spindle spinning, we use these in a production shop and safety wouldnt allow us to use them without an interlock if the tool could come out.
Looks good. And, yes, it's always good to buy kit that was actually designed for the machine you have. ...and not some cheap Chinese s***...
nah, I just heard pay-per-towel, which is a cleaver business concept
That could get expensive. Back in 2020 when everyone was scrambling for toilet paper, the rolls of shop towels at Costco got a lot smaller for the same price. I guess they discovered it didn't hurt sales, because the larger rolls haven't come back.
Hah, I have the very same mill, though the pulley version, and sure enough, while threading the holes for the VFD, "snap", and much cursing followed. I don't know what it is about that cast metal... it's fairly easy to drill but taps don't seem to like it very much.
I have a Makita MAC2400 Compressor it is running low rpm and it is Very Quiet oil lubricated very reliable Higly recomended!
79db
Big bore.
Hey James, I have the Eastwood QST 30/60 compressor. It does require 220V though. I can't compare it to a CAT compressor, as I've never been around one. But if I'm not in the same 'room' of my garage when it turns on, I usually don't notice that it was even running until it turns off and the pressure switch lets out the excess pressure. Thanks for the vid- I also have a PM 935 and had wondered about the power drawbar kit.
8-*24*?? That's a weird size; standard sizes are 8-32 and 8-36.
Yeah, not sure what my brain was doing in that moment. I think they were 8-32.
You gotta love how changing a tool now sounds like an F1 pitstop (or nascar, or indiecar, or any motorsport - just being inclusive for everyone!)!!!
With a noise like that I could just sit there all day changing tools just for the sound!!!! I'd be a crap machinist!
Checked PM's prices and they seem OK. Wish they had one for an 'Merican Bridgeport (not clone)! I bought a Tormach PCNC1100 power drawbar this year at the Bash from Tom Lipton (great deal!). Totally different set up and only works with the TTS as you're just de-tensioning the drawbar enough to drop out a TTS holder. It does NOT unthread the drawbar but compresses belleville washers instead. Once installed, you can ONLY use the TTS system without removing the air cylinder.
I too have a PM mill and have purchased and installed a power draw bar. I have managed to drop and chip end mills with it. With more time 'tho I seem to have managed to learn how to release the end mill (or what have you) very gradually so it doesn't drop AND to be sure only release the draw bar when if all else fails and the part drops it has a VERY limited distance to drop. Frankly the appeal of a floor mounted brake pedal is appealing but so far I've managed to procrastinate on that. I only recently found you channel and very much enjoy it.
Thanks for sharing 👍
My friend upgraded from an older HF to a Kobalt Quiet Tech compressor. Sometimes we have to touch the compressor to know that it's running.
That’s the way to push our buttons …….. 👍👍😂👍👍. James, you are already incredibly productive. I suspect adding this powered drawbar will free up some frustrating time that will coincidentally provide us even more quality and interesting content. Good choice. 👏👏
I like the Power Drawbar. I Also like the way you tink about ubgrading the workschop. I wonder what kind of work you gonne take on?
Hey James - thanks for reviewing. I’m looking to upgrade my mill and this is one I’ve been looking at and I was thinking about this accessory. I bought a new compressor recently - from a near by Lowes’s - it a Kobalt brand, 26 gal “Quiet Tech” - and I really like it. I can have it running and stand next to it and talk to someone in a normal voice. Love your channel, keep up the good work.
I also had a California air compressor with a leaky air regulator. I took the regulator off to replace it and then it wouldn’t turn on. Had to fix the air switch but now it’s auto on all the time. Ended up getting a 4HP scroll compressor instead.
Yep, the compressor is one of the problems you will always have, one of the reasons back in 2013 I opted for a 24 volt electric actuator type draw bar for my Skyfire CNC mill.....I have ISO 20 tooling so the draw bar is different to yours in that it is a Bellville washer spring loaded type and the actuator only has to move 6mm to unlock the tool holder........some time after getting the mill the actuator burnt out due to it being over powered to 36 volts....manufacturer over sight.........they assumed the drawbar would only be hit momentarily for each clamp and unclamp.......well and good but after a week it failed.....rebuild on the way.
I would suggest a bigger air tank or long pipe type system you pump up only once in a while but it does take up some room if it's a cylindrical type ....the pipe type consists of several long steel pipes 150mm diam placed in the roof of the shop and out of the way.
The spindle motor probably dos not get very hot while using it, maybe be a custom box around it wit sound demping material will take care of your sound irritation. A test setup with a cardboard box and sound demping material would give you the answer. Maybe a nice little project.
thank you for everything you do for the lovers of mechanical manufacturing and the new technology for digitizing machine tools and for turning and milling (poor unfortunates)
You have a cool watch! I want info on that.
I have an air command AC15 compressor. Unfortunately it is 3hp as we have 230V supply here in NZ, so probably not much use to you. Other than that, Air Command is actually a good brand.
I just use R8 tool holders with an electric 3/8" ratchet for a "power drawbar." R8 tool holder is much more rigid than collets and the tool length in the tool table remains the same after tool changes. Collets and TTS toolholders I use for chamfer bit, drills, and small endmills.
I have a 1969 Bridgeport series 1. My problem is I am too short [5'9"] for the Bridgeport drawbar. I bought a 24.75" Lagun drawbar from Enco that sticks out the top. I had to chase the threads [would not fit in the R8] and make a centering collar, but it has been working for 7 years.
Excellent video, I am in the process of ordering one for my South Bend SB1024F. This made a lot more sense for the measuring process to get my new drawbar in the correct size.
James, I am SERIOUSLY disappointed that you payed retail price for this product. The fact that you didn’t leverage your channel into receiving this product for free is not only fiscally irresponsible, it’s disrespectful, to yourself and all of your hard work. Honestly, i think you should expect better from yourself…
You win the comment section for today!
@@Clough42 I won? I WON!!! Oh I have so many people to thank… 🤣
I like air tools.
You could 3D print some clips (cable cable combs) to keep the tubes parallel.
The unit sounds like a ratch gun…
In the near future I'll install one of these after I install the DRO on my PM 925TS mill. Many thanks
Hey i was wondering big it’d be possible to make a pretty high quality 3d printer with your cnc mill. Maybe it would be a cool project to try it
I put the make one in my Bridgeport Series II CNC machine. It is easy to install and works very well.
I don’t know anything about LP air regulators, but I do enjoy watching you make stuff.
The spring loaded "unloader doo-dad" on mine kept failing to seat and seal when it started. It would hiss for a long time before maybe sealing. I fussed with the spring tension until I finally gave up and eventually tossed the spring. No problems and it seals every time now. If I want to put the spring back in later I think that it rolled under the mill for safe keeping.
I can't wait to see this mounted on your manual lathe....LOL!🤣🤣
Thanks for replacing that folded hose. That was bugging me as well.
Thanks James , good preview for installing one on my 935
Looks like a nice set up, I just may do that to my PM950-V I never thought I needed that but I use one at work some and I kinda like it. Makes Changing tools ok without getting my step stool.
Scroll compressor will definitely be much quieter than piston. Probably has a pro-sumer price to match. I’d also consider an air dryer as part of the upgrade.
Yup. I just broke off a drill bit in my mill. Right there with ya buddy.
I disassembled my California compressor regulator, cleaned, lubricated and reassembled. Seemed to work better.
Yeah, that's what I did previously as well, and it's leaking again, a few weeks later.
@@Clough42 Sorry to hear that. I haven't used mine very much so that may be the difference.
Link for the tubing cutter, please.
Here's the one I bought, but they're available everywhere for cheap. It's basically a razor blade in a big plastic clothespin: www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/pneumatic_components/flexible_pneumatic_tubing_-a-_hoses/flexible_pneumatic_tubing_-a-_hoses_accessories/tc-12