Is the Immaculate Conception True Catholic Orthodox Debate w William Albrecht & Fr Ramsey
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
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Father Patrick states his position then contradicts himself by it 24-26 etc. He admits she must be free of the stain but then she died so she wasn't free of it. 🤔 She had to raise the son of God so had cooperative sanctifying grace fully, as no other could, but died so she had original stain....??? Great work William.
Really enjoyed this debate, I've learnt alot. Thank you. Gby 🙏 🕊️
From the Orthodox Psalter to the Most Holy Theotokos and Evervirgin Mary:
Come let us worship our Queen, the Theotokos. (Great prostration)
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Come let us worship the Virgin Mary, our Queen, the Theotokos. (Great prostration)
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Come let us worship and fall down before our Lady, the Virgin Mary, our Queen, the Theotokos. (Great prostration)
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William, there is an insight which both yourself and Fr. Ramsey overlooked in this debate which thoroughly disproves the Orthodox position as Fr. Ramsey declared it, that OS is the first cause of death. According to Genesis 3, it was only after Adam and Eve were banished from Eden, and refused to eat of the Tree of Life, that death began to corrupt them. God declares his response to OS in Genesis 3:14-19, then God acts to accomplish these curses in Genesis 3:20-24, and says: "See! The man has become like one of us, knowing what is good and what is bad! Therefore, he must not be allowed to put out his hand to take fruit from the tree of life also, and thus eat of it and live forever." -- As a creature in this space and time, banished from Eden, appointed to be sinless but suffer in this valley of tears, the BVM was banned from Eden and could not partake of the ToL, the same is true for Enoch and Elijah, who would have died had the Lord not taken them. Thusly, the BVM might be totally without Original Sin, yet die without the Tree of Life. The more perfect nature of her "death" or "dormition" is best understood in the context of union and sympathy with Her Son and Saviour, who also was incarnated in this world, and whose resurrected body was "born again" (John 3:3), as the Shroud of Turn evidences. To be "born again" speaks of this transition into the next life, not of any personal confession of faith or act of God upon the living man, as the Evangelicals misunderstand its meaning. He meant death occurs because we are not in Eden, do not partake of the ToL, and the restoration of all things will not make this unnecessary until the complete fulfillment of all prophecy, in the Parousia. Let us consider what it means to be "born", and "first-born" to Mary: from St. Alphonsus de Liguori, an historical context: "For whether she be the first-born inasmuch as she was predestined in the divine decrees, together with the Son, before all creatures, according to the Scotists, or the first-born of grace as the predestined Mother of the Redeemer, after the prevision of sin, according to the Thomists; nevertheless all agree in calling her the first-born of God" (Glories of Mary, II.I.) and St. Theophanius of Nice, who proclaimed, " Hail, thou who hast taken away Eve's sorrow!" (Nova Eva, Mater vitae). Adam, Eve, Christ - NONE were born as men are born, but MARY WAS. Thus, it was simultaneous with the natural act of her conception that she was preserved from the stain of OS, and not after, but rather by the instantaneous indwelling of the Holy Ghost, she was made to grow physically from her onset as "a fit habitation for Christ, but because of her original grace", and "sealed with the power of the Holy Spirit" (Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus). One last consideration, the Lord Himself, not being BORN (BVM), and not being CREATED (Adam, Eve), would not ever have died had it not been His Will to Save Us at that hour, because it would not be necessary for Him to partake of the Tree of Life, which He created. The evil angels, either, they do not have to partake, the Fallen Ones - yet they live still, full of sin. It is Mary's presence in the banished world, a necessary need, that made it she did not live here forever, it was not due to any Original Sin whatsoever, and the nature of her passing transpired in a way that made her in perfect union with Christ Himself, both by the Mercy of God given to us.
Does it really have any bearing for our salvation? Surely Mary, a virgin, was a chosen woman by God himself for the arrival of the Son of Man, the Son of God; and Mary was willing with all implications came with her willingness.
You deny the dogma and you go to hell
@@Jf-mi2lj show me the biblical verse says that.
He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me. - Luke 10:16. By rejecting the Apostles and their successors you reject Christ himself.
@@dadrewpagit6238 The Catholic Church teaches that if you doubt or deny a defined dogma you're outside the Church. Very plain. Sola scriptura is found nowhere in the Bible either.
@@Jf-mi2lj In the bible is clear Roman 10:9 "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved".
O so that is church teaching..that is fine. But I will not condemn on issues of immaculate conception..