UPDATE AFTER BALANCE PATCH: The new balance patch made the biggest difference with Pyro and Outcast Engineer. They are definitely both moving up. To where? Not entirely sure just yet. Outcast Engineer may be in A tier now, his bombardier build is kind of insane. As for the Pyro, I'm not quite sure yet, though I'm thinking she may be in B tier now. Ofc Fatshark would do a balance patch right after I make the tier list 🙃
New Engi is easily an A tier, if not straight S tier. The Bombardier(and other changes) are so much that you can solo the map easily. Pyro is ... uhhh ... a slightly better version of her former self, but nothing of special notice. So, B tier? I believe WP was more of an A tier class, that's S tier now. I am not a fan of his new talent choices. It still feels like some pull too much and other too little weight.
This is good news. I only played Vermintide 2 for a little bit, and of course, I played Outcast Engineer because Dwarf + Steampunk minigun (need I say more?). I agree that he was definitely low-tier when I played him because he could be a detriment to his team. I'm so glad to hear that he got some important changes. I haven't seen what they are but I hope they made him more team-friendly because I had a blast playing him.
@@joshuataylor5080 He got slightly nerfed in the recent patch, but he's more than good now. And is an actual choice next to heavyweights like RV, IB or SLYR. So, have fun and a literal blast!
As a Grail Knight main, the ability to both have *almost* as much cc as a FK and *almost* have as much damage on bosses and elites as shade, does in fact tickle my pp.
Yeah GK is the most overpowered career in V2 imho. Insane Damage, infinite THP against hordes with Shield + Breton sword double stagger, Superb CC, Superb Elite Killer with Charged Breton headshots, and on top of that he got his Quests that can immensely boost Partyplay. Hes basically Tank, CC, Frontliner, Horde Killer, Boss Killer, Elite Killer all in one without having to sacrifice anything major. Only downside is, GL finding a good legend lobby that doesnt already have a GK :D
@OfficialPepe not being able to special snipe is a big downside for me, running quick play I've had a lot of runs end purely because my teammates wouldn't focus specials
@@OfficialPepe I legit don't see many people picking GK over other Krubers in Legend at least. I see a lot of Mercs and FK's. Also he suffers from the same issue that other melee only characters suffer - reduced special killing ability. Something as simple as a Blightstormer can end up being the most ridiculous endeavor to kill, especially if the AI Director is feeling funny that run. Ratling Guns, Warpfire Throwers. I mean sure, at the end of the day it's doable, but still. Not being able to just flick a special unless it shoves itself into you is a huge minus. Though I agree, he's quite strong, but I'm pretty sure Fastshark also kind of balanced those careers around other DLC careers, if that makes sense. As if Fatshark basically expects people to play those careers from now on. I mean, look at them. All of them are basically extremes of playstyles. GK is a melee dps with extreme damage and good tankiness, WP is also a tank but he's more of a stagger support that can spec into healing, OE is the ranged ranged class of the game he basically carries the doomguy arsenal on his back and can demolish anything from range, SotT is a semi decent ranged spec with absolutely busted AOE and CC and Necromancer is a potent all rounder that oddly feels like she'd be really good in a kind of solo way, her skeletons are amazing at soaking and her staff is versatile, as well as the Scythe.
I started playing Vermintide 2 not too long ago, and have been watching a lot of videos to learn more about the game, and let me say that yours are by far the most well-made and easy to understand that I've seen. Thank you for the great content! ❤
Waystalker is easily the best overall, because either you solo the match and get 1000+ kills or you get hit once and leave for a new match, so you never really lose
I don't know man. Sister of the Thorn really feels S-tier if your teammates can provide the damage. I always make her a support class, and just make everything float. The disables extremely useful, and fun to use.
I definitely had my suspicions about SotT being a sleeper S tier career. And I'm not totally against it. I think the main problem with her is that she kind of relies on her team to do the damage. I think her support is enough to make up for a big part of that weakness but not completely. I would say she could be S tier in group play. There are a lot of comps she fits into really well.
@@warmgunproduction4545 I always play her as max dps with sword and dagger and moonfire/longbow for special sniping. Makes monsters and bosses a lot faster to kill too. She’s very versatile in that regard
@@warmgunproduction4545 as a SOTS main, group play is easily s+ but quick play is a-, if you’re going quick play then run javelins with her instead of her staff and use her AOE poison ult so you can still do enough damage to be worth it, if you’re running group play then play her how you described, deep wood staff, and whatever ult you want really (I’m partial to the poison vine ult) and as long as you have so degree of skill you’ll do well
I've owned V2 for a while from a steam sale and tried it when I initially bought it but was a bit overwhelmed. went back a year or two later to this month and its much simpler (but also more deep / high skill cap) than I expected. I put on the necro career and I was having a BLAST. I very quickly played through every map pack (except for treachery maps which were hell at the end events even after I had 50+ hours on the game and a good understanding of maneuvering, blocking, dodging, attack combos, etc... I didn't have a good bot setup though which I'm now addressing and playing all the other characters and leveling them up now). So far Ive loved ironbreaker with coghammer and crossbow (coghammer is so much fun, has great headshot heavy attack and great wide knockback light attack swings), necro with flame sword or scythe and soulstealer staff, and Witch hunter captain with rapier is fun. All very fun to play.
While I'm a necromancy fan, I tend to gravitate to Bardin's playstyle over all. Especially the ironbreaker. I just keep wanting to use the great axe over the cog hammer or dual hammers because the "bonk" sound is just silly to me.
Who is bardin? I am new to vermintide I tried V1 and didn't much care for it.. then the dungeons and dragons dark alliance came out and I grinded tf out of that I loved it... now I am going to be giving Vermintide 2 a shot. Since there is stuff on sale and I am torn between Battle Wizard, Hand Maiden, Witch Hunter Captain and The Iron Breaker should I just get newmap and mission dlc before character dlc?
vermintide 2 is tricky to make tier lists for in general because its such a skill based game. really good players can solo cata with any class. and cata is really just for the best players, so you woudnt even be wrong placing every class in s tier. but besides that i agree with most of the placements. (even tho im just a legend player bc i die every 5 seconds in cata lol) always enjoy watching the videos.
Awesome video! I loved your takes on each of the classes. A piece of constructive criticism, though: try to always put some chapters into your videos. Your viewers will love you for it. Anyways, keep up the great content!
Aah I've been experimenting with doing this and not doing this to see how it affects viewership. But I think you just solved the matter for me, will definitely add chapters from here on out! Ty for the feedback!
Was a battle wizard main now I'm a necromancer main, the ability to spawn in troops that stun a horde while pairing it with barrow blades is a god send when your quick play team has gone down. Then if you can find an area where you can funnel enemies you can reenact the 300 Spartans while pairing that tactic with her coruscation staff and you basically melt any horde. Her only weakness so far in my experience is the chaos spawn, the skeletons seem to get confused at how fast it moves and it's up to you to deal the majority of the damage in the event your team has been wiped.
It’s been a while since I played a ton of vermintide but me and a buddy basically played the whole game on our own with bots and I was full time mercenary and eventually grail knight, and grail knight is so crazy strong when you have your friend who is constantly sniping specials with waystalker and gives you space to just obliterate every melee enemy in the game. I may go back and try to play on cataclysm, darktide has got me hooked back on this gameplay
I like huntsman because once you get a good headshot rate he's just amazing at killing any target and can easily carry full runs, a crit longbow headshot is essentially a grail ult. Awesome at clutching because enemies just stand still when you're invis and last alive so it completely removes the skill requirement for hitting heads. I understand his placement on the list but I think our boy is slept on still. Also I fully consider slayers "crunch" talent a support ability! It's like the fastest cooldown shout in the game. Nice vid man.
What you say isn't false, but if you're good with headshots, the same pretty much applies to almost any class with access to good enough ranged weapons. His invisibility is useful for helping downed teammates. But outside of that...he's kind of a one trick pony and doesn't do it all that much better than other classes anyways. Kruber really really really needs more ranged weapons.
@@G1ingy I'm certainly not opposed to more interesting ranged weapons! Kruber's headshots hit way harder than the other ranged classes though. A single crit headshot with a manbow setup is going to do the damage of over 6 elf longbow headshots or 4 RV handgun headshots. Meaning you can potentially one-shot chaos warriors up to cata 3, and even hit cata monsters for up to 25% of their health in a shot if you have a pot handy. And crits aren't rare either since huntsman will be rocking 40-45% crit chance on successive headshots. A friendly witch hunter can bump you up to 75%. The invis also means you don't have to be in a good position to start shooting in high pressure situations. You can clear a lot of threat from a rough spot and then bully the weaker enemies with strong melee weapons like M+S. I'm not saying he's the most useful class or anything but I don't think anyone can keep up with his raw ranged power across the board. His biggest weakness is how good the other kruber picks are. The rebalance in tourney balance mod also makes him feel way smoother to play, improving the handling and getting rid of the auto zoom on bow. I'm hoping fatshark borrow the modders balancing work for the upcoming balance patch like they did with the 2020 rebalance.
The problem i have with this list is the characters ranked by how others have played or your experience with the class. Cause it feels a mix of both in no particular order.
Watching this video after the balance patch its crazy to see how much the outcast has leveled up. Playing him with Hammer, Troll-Hammer and Bomb-Build you can obliterate Hordes, Specials and Bosses. One of the best damage dealers at the moment imo. Also great video, just discovered you channel🙏
I mainly play Pyro these days and it is by far my favorite class and one that feels the strongest. For melee, any weapon is good, as fast attacks and crits will do wonders. I enjoy the beam staff the best since it's shotgun + crits can melt through hoards and the beam can pick off specials across the map. People have her gripes about her ult, but I dont mind it, the thp talent on it is very useful and it can clear a room if it crits.
I’m in favor of merc over GK or FS. He does an enormous amount of damage with x sword, bls, or halberd and paced strikes. He has great cc with his extra cleave, extra AS, and ult. His ult also force feeds THP to your team AND revives for clutches, and on top of that he has access to handgun for special sniping. I’m not sure he’s deficient in any single category, so for me he’s an easy S and imo kruber’s best career by a mile.
My mate runs this exact build for Merc (but uses great hammer) and it's brilliant, you basically soft clutch for any situation your party might face. You can horde-clear, anti-elite, tank, do a bit of special sniping here and there, and you can clutch almost as good as the best of them. The epitome of "Jack of All".
I had no love for Kerillian until SoT came out and now it's one of my most played. Running the guaranteed crits on ult talent and the Deepwood Staff, you can spread venom to entire hordes very quickly. I routinely do top damage in quickplay. The knockback thorn wall and the secondary from the staff also have great utility even on a damage build.
I just run warrior priest as a healer. Nothing more satisfying than someone taking a huge hit, you shield them, and it just heals their hp back to full and they're like "Ooohhh~". The rest of the talents I invest heavily into stagger. Might as well go full on support and keep staggering enemies for my team while keeping them alive. A lot of people seem to not pick that particular talent, idk why. It's especially good in Quickplay because people just aren't gonna be 100% dodging all the hits, and at the very least you can use it to heal yourself if you don't wanna pay attention to your team. It's also an instant res like Kruber except it also heals them. I know the other ult talents are good, but come on. You literally heal your teammates when they mess up. That chaos warrior hit? You just negated it with the press of a button. That's how good it is.
Hi everyone, I was looking at this game on my steam again, I haven't played in a long time. How important is the DLC to get? I want to start playing again but want to know if it is worth it even without DLC.
I love to play pyromancer as a melee only, u just charging to cap by any range staff and get tonn of buffs to melee. Flail is the best as i think but dagger and necro reaper in first slot is nuts as well
I would say Pyromancer should be in the middle of B tier. She's incredibly versatile, due to the staves she has available, deals an incredible amount of damage, can snipe specials, clear hordes, kill patrols, and kill bosses, but she's extremely hard to survive with. She has no viable DR, she offers exactly nothing in terms of team support, she has no tools for clutching, and her ult doesn't work half the time. Her DPS is incredible, to the point I often outperform myself on Battle Wizard in terms of numbers, she can do anything, and do it well, but she's very hard to play effectively. 133322 is the talent spread I use, because it offers more crits, more attack speed, and free THP. Dagger on that talent set ends up attacking so fast that swapping from that to any other class leaves me feeling sluggish for a while. Pyro is a character who, in the right hands, will easily carry a team, but in the wrong hands will die often, and her biggest downside is that using her means the other Sienna careers, which are all better than her overall, can't be in your party. Battle Wizard is much easier to hit those insane damage numbers with, Unchained is damn near unkillable and can provide DR to the whole team, and Necro also has crazy damage, with better CC and much more survivability. I'd say Battle Wizard is a top 3 class, Unchained is low S/high A, Necromancer is low S/high A, and Pyromancer is low-mid B tier.
As a biased huntsman main I do think he's underrated. People generally misuse him IMO. Bring some weapon-> try to headshot everything -> fail -> quit. The irony of HM is that he has strong builds which demphasize headshots so much that you can put out great damage all match just by spamming tons of bodyshots, which is highly counterintuitive given the design of the class. Aiming for the body is faster and much more reliable and has very good breakpoints (handgun) or time-to-kill (repeater). Manbow is a little different in that it does like to have headshots, but it has other advantages. Namely you become much harder to pressure with the short reload and you have good damage vs all enemy types. Another thing I'd list as a positive is that he has excellent melee options which have great synergy with thp stagger talent, and the stealth ult which is amazing for clutching. I dig your slayer placement though, I think he's also underrated generally. He is insane survivability and mobility.
I just started playing an I know I’m late to it but I chose the dwarf class well I liked the thought of running around smaller then all my teammates and still wrecking I’m glad I made a good choice super fun game an I’m glad I got into it
I think SoT is atleast A tier, she deals respectable damage for a support focused class and elf weapons are pretty good standalone, sword and dagger are versatile and with poison+bleed they clear waves pretty easily, the staff is an amazing ranged weapon because it can disable entire waves of chaos warriors and make dispatching specials very easy for your designated sniper, her poison is basically AoE WHC tag and helps take down monstrosities and elites, her ult can either trim down waves so you can take care of elites or you can just poison a bunch of enemies from a distance, the radiance talent that gives your whole team increased damage every minute is very nice as well and it’s like a miniature WHC ult. Her passive increases healing also provides a ton of value, the THP passive is a bit underwhelming because realistically it’s rare that someone is at full Hp long enough for you to extract some actual value from it but other than that she’s a great support and imo the strongest elf career.
Pyro main here, 1000 hours, most Okri Challenges done, most 100 game hats earned. Definitely have an appreciation for every class's ability to shine in the right hands. My personal tier list is now influenced pretty heavily by how easy it is for someone to reach a class's potential (aka skill floor). Then I factor in versatility (ability to cover multiple roles in a team), DPS potential (performance when everything is going well), and clutch potential (performance when everything is going wrong). I think Bounty Hunter and Slayer are the lowest tier classes right now for that reason, they really just have DPS potential. Those two have clutch potential only in the hands of the best players, and even then, still situational. Sienna's classes all feel S tier to me, but I would generally place them in A tier because Sienna is the least beginner-friendly hero. You've gotta master managing overcharge and safely firing ranged spells in combat to reach her potential. A class like Foot Knight feels B tier to me but is S tier for beginners, so I'd place him in A tier, too. He can be so helpful to his team with just a basic understanding of game mechanics. I kinda ignore modded difficulties cuz everything changes there and you can literally rewrite balance however you like.
I started this game yesterday, and I was wondering about the Grail Knight, because the buffs seemed really solid and I was wondering if the movement speed passive was in place of a damage passive a lot of other classes have because I was scoring way below others on damage. I now know that I just suck and I should just play GK and get better at the career and the game :D
Hello, we’ve met before, but today I’m going to defend my « secret » main, huntsman. So he has specials 1shs on cata 3. He one shots cws, if you use long prowl and can score headshots with longbow you destroy bosses, especially on regular cata. Huntsman is a glass cannon that can absolutely destroy cata with headshots. « He doesn’t provide much for the team » huntsman literally provides an empty map from elites and specials, bosses… and you can (wow) shoot headshots on ambient and hordes. I recently learned to score double headshot on élites while jumping down. And I’ve done all weaves, many of them as huntsman. And I would say that if my team is not cringey then I will provide you damage. And about GK: he IS versatile. He can clutch as I’ve said (probably will post my clutch on ons so people can see how you kill specials on GK) Recently I also see many posts about GK being stupid career that doesn’t require skill. Well, what if I say that I think how I’m going to act depending on the sound of crit? That’s not skill, right?
Yeah the Huntsman dishes out good damage...but that's something almost every other classes do. He might do it better than some of the other classes, but when other classes do well enough to do the job AND also provide utility and other benefits for the team, that alone makes them all that much better. Not to mention most other careers also have more variety in their playstyle while the Hunstman can do his one thing and that's about it. There's the niche little Bluntsman build I guess but it's...eh. And don't forget the video's premise is "Cata QUICKPLAY for an Average Player", so probably not Huntsman mains.
@@StarCityDragon Huntsman is S+ tier on modded realm specially now with tbt on dutch spice, onslaught+ and below but since this is a tier list for the official realm it's fair to have it on C since you have so many other options that can provide the same dps value as huntsman for the little amount of specials and elites on normal cata compared to modded difficulty. If this was a modded tier list I would expect IB to be basically in C tier as well.
Claiming that handmaiden has anything but the ABSOLUTE TOP clutch ability is crazy to me. Not trying to discredit foot knight but handmaiden is literally the class that can easily get cross map full team revives against any horde of enemies consistently with good players. Claiming ger clutch ability is anything but downright broken sounds like someone who never saw a good handmaiden player. Seriously, she's my favorite class and most of the cataclysm quick plays I lost were due to hosts leaving because they got tired of just watching me revive the entire team 3 times over when they just kept dying and didn't just wanna watch me win it solo. Handmaiden feels like she can genuinely get out of every situation ever without losing a single point of HP while reviving the entire team and sniping some specials as she does all that. She's not the best tank or damage dealer, but she 100% is the best baby sitter there is.
Fully agree on your biased footknight rank. I've carried many a game with footknight, and he can stagger chaos warriors or plague monks with easy to use melee attacks while most classes have to ult to stop plague monks from attacking.
Most of the complaints I hear about outcast engineer is friendly fire damage or having to babysit him but with the new rework that allows his bombs to no longer do friendly fire damage, if you play him correctly you can throw bombs to save yourself and teammates or just fabricate bombs for the whole team making up for a good sum of his lack of support. I think the main reason people dislike him is the high skill requirement from his squishiness but people underestimate just how much of a glass Cannon he is, bomb spam, troll hammer and the crank gun having the fastest monster time to kill in the game and troll Hammer deleting Patrols. Of course you could give him a handgun for special sniping if that's more your style. Since his rework he has become a much better character to play and although I don't see him as the absolute best his fate is no longer sealed as the "worst" character.
Very concise comment, I totally agree. I still see Grail Knights and fire Witches (the first fire witch) dominate the fights. I am new and I did not know about the bombs despite being level 30 and I have no access to the harpoons and other better weapons. So until know I have learned how to use the minigun and when, how to to position without hitting my teammates etc. And snipe specials with the muscet. One fuking enemy from behind renders him useless, no mobility etc. So the bombs add some extra safety, but restock so slowly that I cannot call it op.
@@matthiasmax2849 if you want some ideas most people I know use the minigun as more of a primary weapon trying to shoot anything before it gets too close to them so they can conserve their bombs while always having one on cool down by giving any extras to teammates. Personally I use the Cog hammer and the troll Hammer because it triggers grenade effects like shrapnel, the handgun / musket can be great against specials and if you're a good shot and don't mind using the ammo it can even pick off armored enemies being a great option if you don't have the DLC for the troll Hammer, but the troll Hammer gives you the survivability to make up for the bombs recharge and minis cooldown or just helps your team with that extra 20% damage bonus against things that don't die from the torpedo... the only downside is that the troll Hammer does have too good of piercing sometimes but a little bit of practice can teach you to aim lower against certain enemies.
I think you are underestimating the necromancers skeletons. In my experience a lot of unnecessary hits that quickplay teammates eat is from random rats coming from behind. I think there is a lot of support going on here, because the random rats will target a skelleton rather than the teammate. I haven't done any test, but I feel like my teammates die a lot less because of this.
@@hummus1973 that's blatantly false. Skeletons do a pretty good job of keeping random clan rats and skaven slaves from sneaking up on the team, and when ordered to attack a specific target, that target is effectively perma staggered until it dies INCLUDING Chaos Warriors. the only things that reliably 1 shot skeletons is Chaos Warrior overheads and Storm Vermin overheads, Monsters more or less ignore them unless they have to go through a choke point to reach you.
@@hummus1973bro what? Have you played her? Me and my buddies use her on legend because her skeletons with the 50 dmg/hp buff help a ton. However I will say you are right about that in Cata. Skeletons die noticably faster. But legend and below the skeletons are extremely valuable if played right
depends on what I'm playing while me friend plays necromancer. If I'm playing footknight or grail knight, the skeletons are pointless. If I play something more range focused they COULD eat a hit or two before skaven slaves just walk through them anyway and get to me. And of course on cata there are so many elites that can just about one hit the skeletons. They're just OK.@@hummus1973
This is so weird to watch as a Legend QP player. And it is as you said, I could start arguing with some points you made and 1-2 might even be viable but V2 is so much about skill and QP has such a vast variety of players that one could argue that making a player behaviour guide might be more prudent than a tier list.
After playing Shade for like 80 hours, I think she is my fav hero to use, massive damage and with right trinkets and mindset its really easy to play her, also use sword and dagger for easy crowd control and dont forget javeline
She’s objectively one of if not the hardest to play. Way more punishing than virtually all other careers and her damage is pretty decent sure but she’s undermined by the fact GK and Priest do just as much but with a better health pool and more support perks. Shade fills a role that isn’t needed at all and is just a waste but still fun
Pyro needs to get her ult fixed. the ult is reallly awful honestly and she needs another additional passive, but other than that u can get quite good stats with corus staff and the sword (or mace or even the bill) she has neither cluch nor tank abilitys and needs skill no doubt but I kinda really like her (needs mouch more skill than bw xd)
I kinda get what you're saying about Foot Knight having better clutchability with "It's hero time", but I feel like Handmaiden is miles better at being the last person standing, which is what most people think of when they think of a "Clutch". Foot knight is good at it, don't get me wrong, but i feel like Handmaiden is a smidge better, primarily because she can break aggro and revive quicker.
Cool video but there's a few things that seem down right wrong - "victors bounty hunter doesn't provide much support" dude what? A constant barriage of ranged bullets, great anti tank, constant critical hits someone to take out enemies that group you isn't smth you'd want on your team? - I love having grail knight on my team but he isn't that strong. Blessed blade is amazing for high dmg in a short period of time but it's the same as a few good headshots with a well built skill tree just without the range. His buffs he gives the team are the same as cheap weapon property rerolls and overall are a small qol. He has another small passive that's just 10% more movement speed. Amazing melee dmg but no range and the skill tree relies heavily on stagger. Prob is S tier especially from the QoL support to the team and grimiore passive healing but ppl keep overhyping this sub class just cuz it has a lot of stuff - sienas unchained sub class you have super vague info and didn't mention the fire dot or the differsnr crowd control methods with all her wands. Her skill tree also has so much build potential for melee dmg and spell casting and all of this gets stronger with artifacts if you invest in curse resistance - don't care if the foot knight is your favorite stop glazing a sub class with passives as weak as "+5 crit chance" and "10% attk speed for 6 seconds if you hit 3 enemies". The skills tree relies heavily on on how many enemies you hit, stagger and being up close. imo very cool sub class in terms of builds and buffing your team but also very average imo. Sort of like a jack of trades sorta sub class as my friend says. He does a lot of different things but doesn't specialize into one thing to the point where it's crazy op and S class material - the shade sub class review is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "It's hard to get behind enemies in this game without dying" dude you're PHASING THROUGH THEM AND IN STEALTH SO THEY WONR ATTACK YOU. The crowd control is fine also since there's the glaeve and duel daggers and the same stagger on hit and more dmg to staggered foes that Kruger has, literally the ability the guy in this video was hard glazing. The weapons even tell you it has good sweeping ffs. For anyone actually interested in investing time into this sub class the only issue is the low armor break if you're using any other weapon then the glaeve so you gotta dodge to hit their side of back, use a glaeve or heavy attack And I've gotten bored of ranting. Hope this vid doesn't discourage ppl from playing how they want. Tier lists are a plague of opinionated decisions and idiots who don't even read the wiki which helps cuz stuff like the witch hunter captain has a hidden 25% headshot dmg. Some builds are unfortunately more useful in the majority of scenarios but this video is way off
I've sunk a lot into Pyro. A crit pyro build running sword & bolt, is amazing with the right team comp. In quick play? Solid B. If you don't know who or what your team is like, pyros lack of health and mobility really hurts.
Give Pyro the regular sword and abuse her crit % from overcharge to crit-headshot stormvermin and chaos warriors like a champ. she can be stupid broken If you get in the right groove with her.
i agree with most but the elf. Handmaiden is only good imo cause of the stamina regen. Low A for me, she still makes life easier for others. waystalker has too long cd on ability and does not offer much, the extra ammo doesn't make her a better sniper since we got moonfire and javs. C for me, biased yes. shade is debateable since she is squishy af but offers extremely high damage, S for me but i get why she is B. sister is also debateable since she is extremely versatile in what she CAN do, the deepwood staff in some hands is one of the best weapons in the game. poison spread for extra damage is also godly. she also gets THP from others and can almost always benefit from the attack speed talent. S for me.
I have one question regarding chaos wastes. IK it's pretty off what the video was talking about but i would like some clarity please. So, in CW, I see a lot of people holding onto their white weapons all the way until the 4th map where they upgrade straight to a Veteran weapon. Is that a viable strategy ? I often temper my weapon at blue and then at the red, for the chance to get early pilgrim coins % increase.
It's theoretically the most coin-efficient way to do it. What I always do is get a blue temper on whatever weapon I use more(mostly melee, but some careers really want their ranged), then get my other weapon orange, and then get my blue one red. It only loses out on like 50 or 100 coins compared to going straight from white to red, while giving you a chance for +coins and boosting your damage.
I'm an outcast main and I gotta say you're right but at the same time it's incredibly cathartic to mow down bosses and waves of enemies, I also do bomb builds where I just have bombs all the time and they don't hurt allies so I can set up a wall really well
By Grimnir, it really just happened! OE below pyromancer right at the bottom just because most people don't know how to play him, when he can annihilate bosses, patrols, specials, has great temp hp and good melee damage. Well, it doesn't matter, me and my clan-kin are laughing at this umgak placing post-patch right now!
Outcast Engeneer is a class for team play. you have no chance in quickplay, since he is a complete DD. The Waystalker can be a very good class, but most Players just run away from their team to get more kills.
Thanks for the great video! Here are some timestamps since I find myself coming back as a new VT2 player in 2024: Bardin Goreksson 1:35 Ironbreaker 6:03 Outcast Engineer 8:47 Ranger Veteran 11:57 Slayer Victor Saltzpyre 2:05 Bounty Hunter 4:34 Zealot 9:23 Witch Hunter Captain 2:36 Warrior Priest Markus Kruber 2:48 Huntsman 3:19 Grail Knight 5:03 Foot Knight 7:00 Mercenary Sienna Fuegonasus 3:48 Unchained 8:07 Pyromancer 11:04 Battle Wizard 12:53 Necromancer Kerillian 7:34 Shade 9:49 Handmaiden 10:29 Sister of the Thorn 11:34 Waystalker
Kinda agree on everything. IB is so tanky and i feel safe playing him or with him. I swear to god. IB is always up and tanks everything without taking damage. He literally tanks and gives the team more power. And he can deal a lot of damage with certain builds. I am a IB main because i love being tanky.
Wizard is easily a tier above the other two. She literally solos entire maps while barely playing the game while also having a cosntant 30% DR and 2 seperate dashes that have low base cooldown and cooldown faster because of her passive. Anything she touches even 1 single time will die. Nothing else comes remotely close to the lack of fun of playing with a wizard and realizing you don't matter at all.
High skilled shades are s-tier. The class has better clutch than handmaiden if played well while also having enough damage to kill everything. Just imho not quite a boss killer with a classic s&d huntress build. That weapon really ain't good for dodge dancing a boss, so you usually don't get to do max dps against bosses. She still has decent to high boss damage with a decanter potion tho. Also imho there is no contest that BW is the strongest career in the game. Corruscating staff is just that dumb. While you say she has no support I say that she has a double stagger ult on a dash with insane range and a 26 damage shieldbash.While this setup is weakish against CW patrols and specials, she gets to obliterate every other challenge in the game. I also think you overvalue support quite a bit considering how little most buffs do for your team when not planned around. 20% damage is A LOT, if you get to hit a meaningful breakpoint out óf it. On most classes, equipped to do their job, it does barely anything as they should get those 1--shot breakpoints most of the time anyways on qp. Overall Coru BW is a quite tanky career with the highest damage output in the game, very high versatility due to her being able to effectively kill almost everything, insane clutch potential due to her extremely strong ult and her being even stronger, if your teammates suck a killing enemies due to the way coruscating operates. Ib has the insane tankiness and the best panic button in the game with the trollhammer on his side, but he also lacks special killing capabilities even more than bw and also requires extremely good aim for the trollhammer to unlock its full insanity. He removes far less threats than BW does, but his ult allows him (on a far longer cd than) to prevent the team from getting overrun. A situation BW entirely porevents in the first place by just killing enough enemies to prevent this from even occuring most of the time. He effectively removes the wipe condition patrol tho, so this is a big plus. Overall still propably the second strongest, but just not enough to outclass BW.
I highly disagree with what you said about Zealot. Not that you were wrong about his ranking, but rather with why you placed him where you did. Zealot is NOT a quickplay career, he relies on having low hp, and there are just so many other careers that can ruin that for you. A waystalker with Rejuvenating locus, a grail knight’s grim blessing, and of course, any bot with medical supplies. Any one of these 3 things appearing in your game practically ruins your chances of playing Zealot effectively. This is why I believe Zealot is a pre made group career only. Sure there’s no guarantee your entire play style will be nullified, but it’s a possibility. For me Zealot is A tier in premade and C tier in QP.
Very interesting takes. The context of the tier list is Cata Quickplay. I will critique it viewing every class. I only have 1400 hours in the game so my opinions might not be fully rounded. First things first, no class without a ranged weapon can be in S tier. S tier means you can solo carry and clutch in Cata QP, and not have to rely on your (wild range of skill level) teammates. Grail Knight and WP cannot be in S tier for this reason. Personally, my S tier, which is described as: [Classes that can do everything, carry a full team and clutch when needed] Battle Wizard, WHC, Shade, Handmaiden, Foot Knight, Mercenary. Most of these coincide with your S tier too. Why Merc? He has extremely good horde clear, extremely good team utility with THP restoration, can snipe important specials by using the shout and then having a clear shot. He has potential of killing specials in a crowd, fantastic armor damage with the proper weapons. Only lacking in boss killing potential, but with a displacement ability, he can ledge bosses. Why Shade? Shade has a higher solo/clutch potential than HM. Blur spamming lets you clear any amount of elites with constant crits, decent horde clear and decent boss damage no matter the weapon choice. I would argue that Shade is the single best clutcher/true solo class in the entire game Why not IB? Because IB is held together by the existence of trollhammer torpedo. You take that out of the equation, IB sits around at the top of B tier. Unchained is a sleeper carry at this time, due to the Scythe. It can neutralize any amount and any type of enemies in the game except for bosses and CWs. It staggers monks out of their combo, it stagger locks CWs until they overhead, again, not S tier because it depends on the scythe. With the Scythe, unchained is the highest consistent melee dps in the game hands down. My A tier would be: [Classes that are great, but lack something to make them solo carry Cata QP games] GK,UC,Zealot, BH, WS, Sister,Slayer,RV Most of these coincide with your picks as well. BH is the same as shade, very hard to play properly but can absolutely carry entire teams, as long as the team is capable of dealing with horde and chaos patrols, BH deals with everything else, spawnkilling specials, etc. IMO, B tier is:[Classes that rely on teammates more, but still useful and can contribute greatly to winning IB,Necro,WP Why Necro? Because compared to all the A tier classes, necro has sub-par elite damage, unless you're using the soulstealer staff. But using the soulstealer staff makes you unable to take advantage of the crit explosion talent (which is necro's strongest talent), which synergizes well with beam staff and coru. Necro is a niche specialist. She can do one job really well by having a build that's focused on it. Mediocre in everything else. Why WP? You need a good team. You need people who can take advantage of your bubble, people who can kill bosses, people who snipe specials, because WP does none of those things. Since the tier list is for Cata QP, warrior priest has an extreme variance, where it can enable good players for smooth wins, but do absolutely nothing when paired with worse players. C tier is:[Classes that don't contribute towards wins 90% of the time when played by an average player] Pyro,Engineer,Huntsman
Hmm I was not aware of the Unchained scythe situation, I'm definitely gonna have to check it out. Your opinion on the Necro may change if you try running the flaming flail with reaping and the crit explosion talent. I disagree with you on some things but I think your logic sound and appreciate ya adding to the conversation
Maybe i skimmed over of some parts of the video, like you justifying your BH and Shade placement by saying average skill players. Again, this is correct, if you take a high-skill build, but you are not high-skilled, you will spend half the game on the floor. But BH and Shade have varous talents that enable gameplay for lower-skilled players, but no one uses those builds, since they are "nOt MeTa" and "rOyAlE w/ ChEesE sAiD iS bAd". Hungry wind shade is insane, has really high clutch potential, can be played with literally any weapon, no need for dual daggers (which take the most skill to use IMO, and absolutely ground an average player) Just Reward BH, again, very low skill, 0 headshots requirement, CW delete button, high boss damage (although not as high as double shotted) but again, doesn't require headshots at all. Necro has some bugs and quirks at this time. Reaping works on staves. This means that you can pierce entire patrols with Coruscation M1 (the shotgun attack), beam staff shotgun too. Cursed blood triggers on every pellet of a shotgun attack, without any sort of reduced damage or diminishing returns. If you crit, you can kill about 17 stormvermin with simply shooting your staff twice. But again, not a high tier class, because the crit explosion kind of needs a WHC in the team, and otherwise she is just a niche specialist, like i said.
Your criteria feels a little janky. If the criteria for S tier is being able to carry and solo, then Zealot and RV should absolutely be there-really any class with FoW Cata solos would fit the critera. I think excelling in a niche is fine if it's an important niche: IB and GK might not be able to solo, sure, but they make some elements of the game so trivial that your team likely never finds themselves in a position to die unless they're really trying. Your decision to place BH so high up feels like an assumption that everyone who plays BH can handle how difficult he is to play, which just feels wrong. Sure, I've been carried by a few plugged into the matrix before, but most of the time BH in Cata QP would fare far better as a different class since he requires more skill than you get out in results, which is why Huntsman always gets placed so low. I'd say BH scales better into Cata twitch, but that's a different tier list altogether. I think Waystalker falls into this same camp too, just being slightly overrated. Finally I know most people disagree with me here but I will die on the hill that necro is a really strong class. I think fundamentally being able to create your own frontline gives necro so much room to optimize in dps that it isn't funny, and the 80%dr talent seems so overlooked for how good it is: As long as you don't play with an OE spraying lead in your ass and you aren't wasting hits to dumb rats then the ability to survive overheads comfortably lets her go to town. Literally equip a high dps setup and never stop attacking. She feels slightly less effective than UC but there's absolutely zero risk involved compared to UC's very heavy risk. Oh, and her ult is ranged and slightly staggers for clutch moments.
@@RichardRichardman The fact that really good players can solo FoW with RV and Zealot doesnt make the classes a do-everything-carry for an average player. But all tier lists are subjective. You can always find any nitpick in any tierlist. For me any BH that is killing specials actively is already a good BH. Even if they can't chain monsters. Sure maybe at that point any backliner would be better, and lower tier for BH is completely justified. His potential is much higher than huntsman though. I don't think unchained is risky at all, as long as you don't get disabled and you have a constant flow of enemies, you can loop abandon just fine. My playtime with necro is really low so you might be right about the dps uptime.
U need gathger and talk together cause you utubers tell oposite stuff as other her eis enginer in lst place when on wet magic iots S tier so how is that?
Overall I think the point of a tier-list is to rank different classes based on where they stand among one another...so I think your putting nearly everyone in A or S tiers kinda defeat the point of a tier list. I would have spread them out more. As for your assessment of individual classes I disagree with... Necromancer - Her skeletons ARE her buffs. The very presence of those extra bodies draw enemy attention away and provides very hand buffer. But...yeah A-tier makes sense regardless. Ranger - I think he belongs in a higher tier. You're correct that he shines amazingly well in a coordinated team, but in my experience, his ammo, potion, heals, and crowd control support alongside his sniping ability makes him fantastic as a babysitter for stupid and incompetent quickplay teammates. Ranger existing does such a great job patching up the weakness of bad teammates I think it's underrated in your assessment Shade - I think Shade deserves to go down a tier because like you say, she literally offers nothing to the team besides damage. She can kill bosses super well, but that's not a very useful skill to have considering bosses only appear 1-4 times or so a level anyways, and they're often of a low priority compared to disablers and other specials. And uniquely with Shade, it doesn't matter what difficulty you play, from Recruit to Cataclysm, if it's Quickplay, expect your game to end because the Shade ran ahead of the group to backstab a target and get herself killed. Grail Knight - while I don't disagree that he's kinda OP, his team-wide buffs are too RNG dependant because you can't control what you get, it's ease is level dependant, and they don't work well in Weaves and Chaos Wastes. His lack of special sniping is especially massive a drawback. He's a fantastic damage dealer, but I think he's just A. Zealot - I think his lack of any useful utility and contribution to the team should drop him a tier. He does good damage, but to be perfectly honest, even the lowest damage careers in this game already do more than enough damage in Cataclysm, doubly so when you're in a team of 4. Pyromancer - D-tier. She's worse than the Unchained in melee, worse than battle wizard at range, doesn't offer anything to her team that the Pyromancer can uniquely do well, and her career skill sucks and requires focusing in order to actually hit what you need it to hit. PS - just for fun...any chance of a Map Tier List?
@@cykablyat6348 ALL the careers are "very powerful", but in relations to all other careers, Pyromancer is a stinker that feeds at the bottom. Hell atleast with Outcast Engineer it's down there because it's overly reliant on team cooperation to shine, and shine hard when it finally can, it's got potential. In contrast the pyromancer is low skill floor and ceiling and excels at nothing.
@@G1ingy excels at nothing? she has the best melee dps out of all the sienna careers (necro does scale better with higher density modded difficulties), and she has pretty good survivability through her ult generation, also outcast engineer doesnt need much team cooperation because he has trollhammer with 10 bombs, he can solo a boss +cata horde at the same time
@@G1ingy Not sure how youre deciding low skill floor and ceiling for pyro. It seems that you've not even hit the skill floor if youre saying what youre saying. A good pyro player can dominate a game without a team. Id argue that it has a very high skill floor, where if youre good at her, she can easily be one of the strongest careers on the team.
UPDATE AFTER BALANCE PATCH: The new balance patch made the biggest difference with Pyro and Outcast Engineer. They are definitely both moving up. To where? Not entirely sure just yet. Outcast Engineer may be in A tier now, his bombardier build is kind of insane. As for the Pyro, I'm not quite sure yet, though I'm thinking she may be in B tier now.
Ofc Fatshark would do a balance patch right after I make the tier list 🙃
They were waiting for you to release one
New Engi is easily an A tier, if not straight S tier. The Bombardier(and other changes) are so much that you can solo the map easily. Pyro is ... uhhh ... a slightly better version of her former self, but nothing of special notice. So, B tier? I believe WP was more of an A tier class, that's S tier now. I am not a fan of his new talent choices. It still feels like some pull too much and other too little weight.
hey man, got any links or videos for the Bombardier build?
This is good news. I only played Vermintide 2 for a little bit, and of course, I played Outcast Engineer because Dwarf + Steampunk minigun (need I say more?). I agree that he was definitely low-tier when I played him because he could be a detriment to his team.
I'm so glad to hear that he got some important changes. I haven't seen what they are but I hope they made him more team-friendly because I had a blast playing him.
@@joshuataylor5080 He got slightly nerfed in the recent patch, but he's more than good now. And is an actual choice next to heavyweights like RV, IB or SLYR.
So, have fun and a literal blast!
"Assuming there will be no Balance changes in the future"
Fatshark:
"Hold my beer"
YUP fml
@@warmgunproduction4545Update when?
As a Grail Knight main, the ability to both have *almost* as much cc as a FK and *almost* have as much damage on bosses and elites as shade, does in fact tickle my pp.
Yeah GK is the most overpowered career in V2 imho. Insane Damage, infinite THP against hordes with Shield + Breton sword double stagger, Superb CC, Superb Elite Killer with Charged Breton headshots, and on top of that he got his Quests that can immensely boost Partyplay. Hes basically Tank, CC, Frontliner, Horde Killer, Boss Killer, Elite Killer all in one without having to sacrifice anything major. Only downside is, GL finding a good legend lobby that doesnt already have a GK :D
@OfficialPepe not being able to special snipe is a big downside for me, running quick play I've had a lot of runs end purely because my teammates wouldn't focus specials
@@OfficialPepe I agree, never understood the point of making the GN so op.
Fellow Grail Knight main 🤝
@@OfficialPepe I legit don't see many people picking GK over other Krubers in Legend at least. I see a lot of Mercs and FK's.
Also he suffers from the same issue that other melee only characters suffer - reduced special killing ability. Something as simple as a Blightstormer can end up being the most ridiculous endeavor to kill, especially if the AI Director is feeling funny that run. Ratling Guns, Warpfire Throwers. I mean sure, at the end of the day it's doable, but still. Not being able to just flick a special unless it shoves itself into you is a huge minus.
Though I agree, he's quite strong, but I'm pretty sure Fastshark also kind of balanced those careers around other DLC careers, if that makes sense. As if Fatshark basically expects people to play those careers from now on. I mean, look at them. All of them are basically extremes of playstyles. GK is a melee dps with extreme damage and good tankiness, WP is also a tank but he's more of a stagger support that can spec into healing, OE is the ranged ranged class of the game he basically carries the doomguy arsenal on his back and can demolish anything from range, SotT is a semi decent ranged spec with absolutely busted AOE and CC and Necromancer is a potent all rounder that oddly feels like she'd be really good in a kind of solo way, her skeletons are amazing at soaking and her staff is versatile, as well as the Scythe.
I started playing Vermintide 2 not too long ago, and have been watching a lot of videos to learn more about the game, and let me say that yours are by far the most well-made and easy to understand that I've seen. Thank you for the great content! ❤
Waystalker is easily the best overall, because either you solo the match and get 1000+ kills or you get hit once and leave for a new match, so you never really lose
So true hahaha
Lmao, that one got me
I don't know man. Sister of the Thorn really feels S-tier if your teammates can provide the damage. I always make her a support class, and just make everything float. The disables extremely useful, and fun to use.
Good players using her make the game effortlessly easy, for sure
still today it is one of the most busted classes in the game idk how it isnt in S tier
Sister is S tier with a damage setup. Makes everything just a bit easier if you can spread that venom for +24% damage on enemies
I definitely had my suspicions about SotT being a sleeper S tier career. And I'm not totally against it. I think the main problem with her is that she kind of relies on her team to do the damage. I think her support is enough to make up for a big part of that weakness but not completely. I would say she could be S tier in group play. There are a lot of comps she fits into really well.
@@warmgunproduction4545 I always play her as max dps with sword and dagger and moonfire/longbow for special sniping.
Makes monsters and bosses a lot faster to kill too.
She’s very versatile in that regard
@@warmgunproduction4545 as a SOTS main, group play is easily s+ but quick play is a-, if you’re going quick play then run javelins with her instead of her staff and use her AOE poison ult so you can still do enough damage to be worth it, if you’re running group play then play her how you described, deep wood staff, and whatever ult you want really (I’m partial to the poison vine ult) and as long as you have so degree of skill you’ll do well
I've owned V2 for a while from a steam sale and tried it when I initially bought it but was a bit overwhelmed. went back a year or two later to this month and its much simpler (but also more deep / high skill cap) than I expected.
I put on the necro career and I was having a BLAST. I very quickly played through every map pack (except for treachery maps which were hell at the end events even after I had 50+ hours on the game and a good understanding of maneuvering, blocking, dodging, attack combos, etc... I didn't have a good bot setup though which I'm now addressing and playing all the other characters and leveling them up now).
So far Ive loved ironbreaker with coghammer and crossbow (coghammer is so much fun, has great headshot heavy attack and great wide knockback light attack swings), necro with flame sword or scythe and soulstealer staff, and Witch hunter captain with rapier is fun. All very fun to play.
While I'm a necromancy fan, I tend to gravitate to Bardin's playstyle over all. Especially the ironbreaker. I just keep wanting to use the great axe over the cog hammer or dual hammers because the "bonk" sound is just silly to me.
Running the cog hammer on slayer with the extra crit perk is one of my favorite ways to play the game lol dude just smacks patrols
It's the clang from berserk, which is a dawri tier meme that honors the weeb ancestors, wazzock
Who is bardin? I am new to vermintide I tried V1 and didn't much care for it.. then the dungeons and dragons dark alliance came out and I grinded tf out of that I loved it... now I am going to be giving Vermintide 2 a shot. Since there is stuff on sale and I am torn between Battle Wizard, Hand Maiden, Witch Hunter Captain and The Iron Breaker should I just get newmap and mission dlc before character dlc?
vermintide 2 is tricky to make tier lists for in general because its such a skill based game. really good players can solo cata with any class. and cata is really just for the best players, so you woudnt even be wrong placing every class in s tier. but besides that i agree with most of the placements. (even tho im just a legend player bc i die every 5 seconds in cata lol) always enjoy watching the videos.
Awesome video! I loved your takes on each of the classes. A piece of constructive criticism, though: try to always put some chapters into your videos. Your viewers will love you for it.
Anyways, keep up the great content!
Aah I've been experimenting with doing this and not doing this to see how it affects viewership. But I think you just solved the matter for me, will definitely add chapters from here on out! Ty for the feedback!
Was a battle wizard main now I'm a necromancer main, the ability to spawn in troops that stun a horde while pairing it with barrow blades is a god send when your quick play team has gone down. Then if you can find an area where you can funnel enemies you can reenact the 300 Spartans while pairing that tactic with her coruscation staff and you basically melt any horde. Her only weakness so far in my experience is the chaos spawn, the skeletons seem to get confused at how fast it moves and it's up to you to deal the majority of the damage in the event your team has been wiped.
It’s been a while since I played a ton of vermintide but me and a buddy basically played the whole game on our own with bots and I was full time mercenary and eventually grail knight, and grail knight is so crazy strong when you have your friend who is constantly sniping specials with waystalker and gives you space to just obliterate every melee enemy in the game. I may go back and try to play on cataclysm, darktide has got me hooked back on this gameplay
I like huntsman because once you get a good headshot rate he's just amazing at killing any target and can easily carry full runs, a crit longbow headshot is essentially a grail ult. Awesome at clutching because enemies just stand still when you're invis and last alive so it completely removes the skill requirement for hitting heads. I understand his placement on the list but I think our boy is slept on still.
Also I fully consider slayers "crunch" talent a support ability! It's like the fastest cooldown shout in the game.
Nice vid man.
What you say isn't false, but if you're good with headshots, the same pretty much applies to almost any class with access to good enough ranged weapons. His invisibility is useful for helping downed teammates. But outside of that...he's kind of a one trick pony and doesn't do it all that much better than other classes anyways.
Kruber really really really needs more ranged weapons.
@@G1ingy I'm certainly not opposed to more interesting ranged weapons! Kruber's headshots hit way harder than the other ranged classes though. A single crit headshot with a manbow setup is going to do the damage of over 6 elf longbow headshots or 4 RV handgun headshots. Meaning you can potentially one-shot chaos warriors up to cata 3, and even hit cata monsters for up to 25% of their health in a shot if you have a pot handy.
And crits aren't rare either since huntsman will be rocking 40-45% crit chance on successive headshots. A friendly witch hunter can bump you up to 75%.
The invis also means you don't have to be in a good position to start shooting in high pressure situations. You can clear a lot of threat from a rough spot and then bully the weaker enemies with strong melee weapons like M+S.
I'm not saying he's the most useful class or anything but I don't think anyone can keep up with his raw ranged power across the board. His biggest weakness is how good the other kruber picks are.
The rebalance in tourney balance mod also makes him feel way smoother to play, improving the handling and getting rid of the auto zoom on bow. I'm hoping fatshark borrow the modders balancing work for the upcoming balance patch like they did with the 2020 rebalance.
The problem i have with this list is the characters ranked by how others have played or your experience with the class. Cause it feels a mix of both in no particular order.
Watching this video after the balance patch its crazy to see how much the outcast has leveled up. Playing him with Hammer, Troll-Hammer and Bomb-Build you can obliterate Hordes, Specials and Bosses. One of the best damage dealers at the moment imo. Also great video, just discovered you channel🙏
S tier:whatever feels most fun to you
F tier:the meta
Honestly Mercenary best career, purely for the quote "OI! WE'RE THE BLOODY UBERSREIK 5....OR 4 DOESN'T MATTER!"
TRUE
I think footnight responds to sienna with a similar one
“We’re the ubersrei-“
“KRUBERSreik”
“Whatever!”
Warrior Priest best career, purely for the quote: "FOR SIGMAR!"
I literally only run merc NPC cos that quote is awesome
I mainly play Pyro these days and it is by far my favorite class and one that feels the strongest. For melee, any weapon is good, as fast attacks and crits will do wonders. I enjoy the beam staff the best since it's shotgun + crits can melt through hoards and the beam can pick off specials across the map. People have her gripes about her ult, but I dont mind it, the thp talent on it is very useful and it can clear a room if it crits.
I’m in favor of merc over GK or FS. He does an enormous amount of damage with x sword, bls, or halberd and paced strikes. He has great cc with his extra cleave, extra AS, and ult. His ult also force feeds THP to your team AND revives for clutches, and on top of that he has access to handgun for special sniping. I’m not sure he’s deficient in any single category, so for me he’s an easy S and imo kruber’s best career by a mile.
My mate runs this exact build for Merc (but uses great hammer) and it's brilliant, you basically soft clutch for any situation your party might face. You can horde-clear, anti-elite, tank, do a bit of special sniping here and there, and you can clutch almost as good as the best of them. The epitome of "Jack of All".
I had no love for Kerillian until SoT came out and now it's one of my most played. Running the guaranteed crits on ult talent and the Deepwood Staff, you can spread venom to entire hordes very quickly. I routinely do top damage in quickplay. The knockback thorn wall and the secondary from the staff also have great utility even on a damage build.
I just run warrior priest as a healer. Nothing more satisfying than someone taking a huge hit, you shield them, and it just heals their hp back to full and they're like "Ooohhh~". The rest of the talents I invest heavily into stagger. Might as well go full on support and keep staggering enemies for my team while keeping them alive.
A lot of people seem to not pick that particular talent, idk why. It's especially good in Quickplay because people just aren't gonna be 100% dodging all the hits, and at the very least you can use it to heal yourself if you don't wanna pay attention to your team. It's also an instant res like Kruber except it also heals them.
I know the other ult talents are good, but come on. You literally heal your teammates when they mess up. That chaos warrior hit? You just negated it with the press of a button. That's how good it is.
"Now for the Outcast Engineer, I really, really want him to be good."
Well. Uh.
has the heavy attack drag been patched? or have a dependant setting? I can't seem to get it to work, even locking game at 20FPS etc not sure!
Just starting, appreciate the content
slayer using greathammer or dual hammers gives him insane crowd control, probably the only thing that stuck out to me when you said otherwise.
Verry intresting, nice video 👌
Hi everyone, I was looking at this game on my steam again, I haven't played in a long time. How important is the DLC to get? I want to start playing again but want to know if it is worth it even without DLC.
The thing that made me surprised is that Warrior priest is higher than what I expected. Like I was 100% fine if it was in A tier.
I love to play pyromancer as a melee only, u just charging to cap by any range staff and get tonn of buffs to melee. Flail is the best as i think but dagger and necro reaper in first slot is nuts as well
Totaly agree on everything. Nice tierlist. If character is in A B C D tier - doesn't mean it's not fun to play as. So - yeah. Nice one.
Will there be a new tier list with the new balance changes?
I would say Pyromancer should be in the middle of B tier. She's incredibly versatile, due to the staves she has available, deals an incredible amount of damage, can snipe specials, clear hordes, kill patrols, and kill bosses, but she's extremely hard to survive with.
She has no viable DR, she offers exactly nothing in terms of team support, she has no tools for clutching, and her ult doesn't work half the time. Her DPS is incredible, to the point I often outperform myself on Battle Wizard in terms of numbers, she can do anything, and do it well, but she's very hard to play effectively. 133322 is the talent spread I use, because it offers more crits, more attack speed, and free THP. Dagger on that talent set ends up attacking so fast that swapping from that to any other class leaves me feeling sluggish for a while.
Pyro is a character who, in the right hands, will easily carry a team, but in the wrong hands will die often, and her biggest downside is that using her means the other Sienna careers, which are all better than her overall, can't be in your party. Battle Wizard is much easier to hit those insane damage numbers with, Unchained is damn near unkillable and can provide DR to the whole team, and Necro also has crazy damage, with better CC and much more survivability.
I'd say Battle Wizard is a top 3 class, Unchained is low S/high A, Necromancer is low S/high A, and Pyromancer is low-mid B tier.
Can we get a tier list for comps/best careers for premade teams?
As outcast engineer was being sent to the lowly level of D, I was mentally preparing myself for catalysm quick play
Big balance chane has arrived, now, here, in the future.
New tier list?
As a biased huntsman main I do think he's underrated. People generally misuse him IMO. Bring some weapon-> try to headshot everything -> fail -> quit.
The irony of HM is that he has strong builds which demphasize headshots so much that you can put out great damage all match just by spamming tons of bodyshots, which is highly counterintuitive given the design of the class. Aiming for the body is faster and much more reliable and has very good breakpoints (handgun) or time-to-kill (repeater). Manbow is a little different in that it does like to have headshots, but it has other advantages. Namely you become much harder to pressure with the short reload and you have good damage vs all enemy types.
Another thing I'd list as a positive is that he has excellent melee options which have great synergy with thp stagger talent, and the stealth ult which is amazing for clutching.
I dig your slayer placement though, I think he's also underrated generally. He is insane survivability and mobility.
I just started playing an I know I’m late to it but I chose the dwarf class well I liked the thought of running around smaller then all my teammates and still wrecking I’m glad I made a good choice super fun game an I’m glad I got into it
that d tier OE sure aged like fine wine
I think SoT is atleast A tier, she deals respectable damage for a support focused class and elf weapons are pretty good standalone, sword and dagger are versatile and with poison+bleed they clear waves pretty easily, the staff is an amazing ranged weapon because it can disable entire waves of chaos warriors and make dispatching specials very easy for your designated sniper, her poison is basically AoE WHC tag and helps take down monstrosities and elites, her ult can either trim down waves so you can take care of elites or you can just poison a bunch of enemies from a distance, the radiance talent that gives your whole team increased damage every minute is very nice as well and it’s like a miniature WHC ult.
Her passive increases healing also provides a ton of value, the THP passive is a bit underwhelming because realistically it’s rare that someone is at full Hp long enough for you to extract some actual value from it but other than that she’s a great support and imo the strongest elf career.
Thanks for the Video! Is Grail Knight still top 3 after the nerfs or not anymore?
Even after the nerf he's still in S tier imo, but he's more of a balanced S tier career
OK best comp for Fortunes of war after patch?
Pyro main here, 1000 hours, most Okri Challenges done, most 100 game hats earned. Definitely have an appreciation for every class's ability to shine in the right hands. My personal tier list is now influenced pretty heavily by how easy it is for someone to reach a class's potential (aka skill floor). Then I factor in versatility (ability to cover multiple roles in a team), DPS potential (performance when everything is going well), and clutch potential (performance when everything is going wrong). I think Bounty Hunter and Slayer are the lowest tier classes right now for that reason, they really just have DPS potential. Those two have clutch potential only in the hands of the best players, and even then, still situational.
Sienna's classes all feel S tier to me, but I would generally place them in A tier because Sienna is the least beginner-friendly hero. You've gotta master managing overcharge and safely firing ranged spells in combat to reach her potential. A class like Foot Knight feels B tier to me but is S tier for beginners, so I'd place him in A tier, too. He can be so helpful to his team with just a basic understanding of game mechanics.
I kinda ignore modded difficulties cuz everything changes there and you can literally rewrite balance however you like.
I started this game yesterday, and I was wondering about the Grail Knight, because the buffs seemed really solid and I was wondering if the movement speed passive was in place of a damage passive a lot of other classes have because I was scoring way below others on damage.
I now know that I just suck and I should just play GK and get better at the career and the game :D
well the game changes dramatically when you get to level 30+
just hang in there, it gets WAY more fun imo
@@bofad6074 Thanks! Glad to hear! :D
Hello, we’ve met before, but today I’m going to defend my « secret » main, huntsman. So he has specials 1shs on cata 3. He one shots cws, if you use long prowl and can score headshots with longbow you destroy bosses, especially on regular cata. Huntsman is a glass cannon that can absolutely destroy cata with headshots. « He doesn’t provide much for the team » huntsman literally provides an empty map from elites and specials, bosses… and you can (wow) shoot headshots on ambient and hordes. I recently learned to score double headshot on élites while jumping down. And I’ve done all weaves, many of them as huntsman. And I would say that if my team is not cringey then I will provide you damage.
And about GK: he IS versatile. He can clutch as I’ve said (probably will post my clutch on ons so people can see how you kill specials on GK)
Recently I also see many posts about GK being stupid career that doesn’t require skill. Well, what if I say that I think how I’m going to act depending on the sound of crit? That’s not skill, right?
Yeah the Huntsman dishes out good damage...but that's something almost every other classes do. He might do it better than some of the other classes, but when other classes do well enough to do the job AND also provide utility and other benefits for the team, that alone makes them all that much better. Not to mention most other careers also have more variety in their playstyle while the Hunstman can do his one thing and that's about it. There's the niche little Bluntsman build I guess but it's...eh.
And don't forget the video's premise is "Cata QUICKPLAY for an Average Player", so probably not Huntsman mains.
@@G1ingylmao the last sentence got me laughing, Ty
@@StarCityDragon Huntsman is S+ tier on modded realm specially now with tbt on dutch spice, onslaught+ and below but since this is a tier list for the official realm it's fair to have it on C since you have so many other options that can provide the same dps value as huntsman for the little amount of specials and elites on normal cata compared to modded difficulty.
If this was a modded tier list I would expect IB to be basically in C tier as well.
Claiming that handmaiden has anything but the ABSOLUTE TOP clutch ability is crazy to me.
Not trying to discredit foot knight but handmaiden is literally the class that can easily get cross map full team revives against any horde of enemies consistently with good players.
Claiming ger clutch ability is anything but downright broken sounds like someone who never saw a good handmaiden player.
Seriously, she's my favorite class and most of the cataclysm quick plays I lost were due to hosts leaving because they got tired of just watching me revive the entire team 3 times over when they just kept dying and didn't just wanna watch me win it solo.
Handmaiden feels like she can genuinely get out of every situation ever without losing a single point of HP while reviving the entire team and sniping some specials as she does all that.
She's not the best tank or damage dealer, but she 100% is the best baby sitter there is.
Ngl when he said she was just barely S tier I couldnt believe it lol
Shes genuinely only beaten by BW for best class in the game
Witch tier for necromancer?
as someone who only played WHC i approve of this (go grandpa go)
slayer does have a ranged weapon.. throwing axes... very good for sniping mid range, and deadly at close range
Fully agree on your biased footknight rank. I've carried many a game with footknight, and he can stagger chaos warriors or plague monks with easy to use melee attacks while most classes have to ult to stop plague monks from attacking.
If done on legend difficulty, my most fun to play are Shade, Warrior Priest, Grail Knight and Ironbreaker
top weapons for hand maiden?
Listen here now, foot night, but with a great sword 👀
What armor is that bro?
Most of the complaints I hear about outcast engineer is friendly fire damage or having to babysit him but with the new rework that allows his bombs to no longer do friendly fire damage, if you play him correctly you can throw bombs to save yourself and teammates or just fabricate bombs for the whole team making up for a good sum of his lack of support.
I think the main reason people dislike him is the high skill requirement from his squishiness but people underestimate just how much of a glass Cannon he is, bomb spam, troll hammer and the crank gun having the fastest monster time to kill in the game and troll Hammer deleting Patrols.
Of course you could give him a handgun for special sniping if that's more your style.
Since his rework he has become a much better character to play and although I don't see him as the absolute best his fate is no longer sealed as the "worst" character.
Very concise comment, I totally agree. I still see Grail Knights and fire Witches (the first fire witch) dominate the fights.
I am new and I did not know about the bombs despite being level 30 and I have no access to the harpoons and other better weapons.
So until know I have learned how to use the minigun and when, how to to position without hitting my teammates etc. And snipe specials with the muscet.
One fuking enemy from behind renders him useless, no mobility etc.
So the bombs add some extra safety, but restock so slowly that I cannot call it op.
@@matthiasmax2849 if you want some ideas most people I know use the minigun as more of a primary weapon trying to shoot anything before it gets too close to them so they can conserve their bombs while always having one on cool down by giving any extras to teammates.
Personally I use the Cog hammer and the troll Hammer because it triggers grenade effects like shrapnel, the handgun / musket can be great against specials and if you're a good shot and don't mind using the ammo it can even pick off armored enemies being a great option if you don't have the DLC for the troll Hammer, but the troll Hammer gives you the survivability to make up for the bombs recharge and minis cooldown or just helps your team with that extra 20% damage bonus against things that don't die from the torpedo... the only downside is that the troll Hammer does have too good of piercing sometimes but a little bit of practice can teach you to aim lower against certain enemies.
Is it common to see Shade players? Are they the typical rogue noob trap?
kind of, she is really good but very squishy. If you are new and want to use dual swords stick with Handmaiden
I'd personally put Pyromancer in B or even A. She's the weakest Sienna class, but Sienna's weapons still allow for her to be a menace
I wouldn't be opposed to this. I've definitely seen Pyro tearing it up in QP
I think you are underestimating the necromancers skeletons.
In my experience a lot of unnecessary hits that quickplay teammates eat is from random rats coming from behind.
I think there is a lot of support going on here, because the random rats will target a skelleton rather than the teammate.
I haven't done any test, but I feel like my teammates die a lot less because of this.
This defence of skeletons shatters if you play on a difficulty higher that recruit.
@@hummus1973 that's blatantly false. Skeletons do a pretty good job of keeping random clan rats and skaven slaves from sneaking up on the team, and when ordered to attack a specific target, that target is effectively perma staggered until it dies INCLUDING Chaos Warriors. the only things that reliably 1 shot skeletons is Chaos Warrior overheads and Storm Vermin overheads, Monsters more or less ignore them unless they have to go through a choke point to reach you.
@@hummus1973bro what? Have you played her? Me and my buddies use her on legend because her skeletons with the 50 dmg/hp buff help a ton. However I will say you are right about that in Cata. Skeletons die noticably faster. But legend and below the skeletons are extremely valuable if played right
@@hummus1973The tierlist is for cata though. Not for modded difficulties.
depends on what I'm playing while me friend plays necromancer. If I'm playing footknight or grail knight, the skeletons are pointless. If I play something more range focused they COULD eat a hit or two before skaven slaves just walk through them anyway and get to me. And of course on cata there are so many elites that can just about one hit the skeletons. They're just OK.@@hummus1973
My favourite combo is ranger vet giving Purple potion to neceomancer with army of the dead
time to make another one
This is so weird to watch as a Legend QP player. And it is as you said, I could start arguing with some points you made and 1-2 might even be viable but V2 is so much about skill and QP has such a vast variety of players that one could argue that making a player behaviour guide might be more prudent than a tier list.
That's actually a great idea lolol or something like a meme video 'the 10 kinds of Vermintide players'
After playing Shade for like 80 hours, I think she is my fav hero to use, massive damage and with right trinkets and mindset its really easy to play her, also use sword and dagger for easy crowd control and dont forget javeline
She’s objectively one of if not the hardest to play. Way more punishing than virtually all other careers and her damage is pretty decent sure but she’s undermined by the fact GK and Priest do just as much but with a better health pool and more support perks. Shade fills a role that isn’t needed at all and is just a waste but still fun
been a while since I played are reds still the highest tier of weapons?
Yes
Pyro needs to get her ult fixed. the ult is reallly awful honestly and she needs another additional passive, but other than that u can get quite good stats with corus staff and the sword (or mace or even the bill) she has neither cluch nor tank abilitys and needs skill no doubt but I kinda really like her (needs mouch more skill than bw xd)
I kinda get what you're saying about Foot Knight having better clutchability with "It's hero time", but I feel like Handmaiden is miles better at being the last person standing, which is what most people think of when they think of a "Clutch". Foot knight is good at it, don't get me wrong, but i feel like Handmaiden is a smidge better, primarily because she can break aggro and revive quicker.
Cool video but there's a few things that seem down right wrong
- "victors bounty hunter doesn't provide much support" dude what? A constant barriage of ranged bullets, great anti tank, constant critical hits someone to take out enemies that group you isn't smth you'd want on your team?
- I love having grail knight on my team but he isn't that strong. Blessed blade is amazing for high dmg in a short period of time but it's the same as a few good headshots with a well built skill tree just without the range. His buffs he gives the team are the same as cheap weapon property rerolls and overall are a small qol. He has another small passive that's just 10% more movement speed. Amazing melee dmg but no range and the skill tree relies heavily on stagger. Prob is S tier especially from the QoL support to the team and grimiore passive healing but ppl keep overhyping this sub class just cuz it has a lot of stuff
- sienas unchained sub class you have super vague info and didn't mention the fire dot or the differsnr crowd control methods with all her wands. Her skill tree also has so much build potential for melee dmg and spell casting and all of this gets stronger with artifacts if you invest in curse resistance
- don't care if the foot knight is your favorite stop glazing a sub class with passives as weak as "+5 crit chance" and "10% attk speed for 6 seconds if you hit 3 enemies". The skills tree relies heavily on on how many enemies you hit, stagger and being up close. imo very cool sub class in terms of builds and buffing your team but also very average imo. Sort of like a jack of trades sorta sub class as my friend says. He does a lot of different things but doesn't specialize into one thing to the point where it's crazy op and S class material
- the shade sub class review is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. "It's hard to get behind enemies in this game without dying" dude you're PHASING THROUGH THEM AND IN STEALTH SO THEY WONR ATTACK YOU. The crowd control is fine also since there's the glaeve and duel daggers and the same stagger on hit and more dmg to staggered foes that Kruger has, literally the ability the guy in this video was hard glazing. The weapons even tell you it has good sweeping ffs. For anyone actually interested in investing time into this sub class the only issue is the low armor break if you're using any other weapon then the glaeve so you gotta dodge to hit their side of back, use a glaeve or heavy attack
And I've gotten bored of ranting. Hope this vid doesn't discourage ppl from playing how they want. Tier lists are a plague of opinionated decisions and idiots who don't even read the wiki which helps cuz stuff like the witch hunter captain has a hidden 25% headshot dmg. Some builds are unfortunately more useful in the majority of scenarios but this video is way off
I've sunk a lot into Pyro. A crit pyro build running sword & bolt, is amazing with the right team comp.
In quick play? Solid B.
If you don't know who or what your team is like, pyros lack of health and mobility really hurts.
Give Pyro the regular sword and abuse her crit % from overcharge to crit-headshot stormvermin and chaos warriors like a champ. she can be stupid broken If you get in the right groove with her.
i guess we all have our own opinions. just cant agree on 50%. as a cata player it doesnt make sense, but i see your views. still great observations
"Assuming there is no balance changes in the future" ... yeah ... well... xD
i agree with most but the elf.
Handmaiden is only good imo cause of the stamina regen. Low A for me, she still makes life easier for others.
waystalker has too long cd on ability and does not offer much, the extra ammo doesn't make her a better sniper since we got moonfire and javs. C for me, biased yes.
shade is debateable since she is squishy af but offers extremely high damage, S for me but i get why she is B.
sister is also debateable since she is extremely versatile in what she CAN do, the deepwood staff in some hands is one of the best weapons in the game. poison spread for extra damage is also godly. she also gets THP from others and can almost always benefit from the attack speed talent. S for me.
Switch Outcast Engineer and Foot Knight then I'll agree.
"assuming there's no new balance changes" .... Sooooo about that lol
I have one question regarding chaos wastes. IK it's pretty off what the video was talking about but i would like some clarity please.
So, in CW, I see a lot of people holding onto their white weapons all the way until the 4th map where they upgrade straight to a Veteran weapon. Is that a viable strategy ? I often temper my weapon at blue and then at the red, for the chance to get early pilgrim coins % increase.
It's theoretically the most coin-efficient way to do it. What I always do is get a blue temper on whatever weapon I use more(mostly melee, but some careers really want their ranged), then get my other weapon orange, and then get my blue one red.
It only loses out on like 50 or 100 coins compared to going straight from white to red, while giving you a chance for +coins and boosting your damage.
I watched this to see if the DLC careers were worth buying. It seems the base game careers are just as good, if not, better.
Outcast Engineer ftw
Sadly, only in chaos wastes
I'm an outcast main and I gotta say you're right but at the same time it's incredibly cathartic to mow down bosses and waves of enemies, I also do bomb builds where I just have bombs all the time and they don't hurt allies so I can set up a wall really well
By Grimnir, it really just happened! OE below pyromancer right at the bottom just because most people don't know how to play him, when he can annihilate bosses, patrols, specials, has great temp hp and good melee damage. Well, it doesn't matter, me and my clan-kin are laughing at this umgak placing post-patch right now!
pyromancer is a better waystalker. HARD crits paired with swift dagger. I thought unchained was good until I main pyro for a while.
Outcast Engeneer is a class for team play. you have no chance in quickplay, since he is a complete DD.
The Waystalker can be a very good class, but most Players just run away from their team to get more kills.
Thanks for the great video! Here are some timestamps since I find myself coming back as a new VT2 player in 2024:
Bardin Goreksson
1:35 Ironbreaker
6:03 Outcast Engineer
8:47 Ranger Veteran
11:57 Slayer
Victor Saltzpyre
2:05 Bounty Hunter
4:34 Zealot
9:23 Witch Hunter Captain
2:36 Warrior Priest
Markus Kruber
2:48 Huntsman
3:19 Grail Knight
5:03 Foot Knight
7:00 Mercenary
Sienna Fuegonasus
3:48 Unchained
8:07 Pyromancer
11:04 Battle Wizard
12:53 Necromancer
Kerillian
7:34 Shade
9:49 Handmaiden
10:29 Sister of the Thorn
11:34 Waystalker
Kinda agree on everything. IB is so tanky and i feel safe playing him or with him.
I swear to god. IB is always up and tanks everything without taking damage.
He literally tanks and gives the team more power. And he can deal a lot of damage with certain builds.
I am a IB main because i love being tanky.
Wizard is easily a tier above the other two. She literally solos entire maps while barely playing the game while also having a cosntant 30% DR and 2 seperate dashes that have low base cooldown and cooldown faster because of her passive. Anything she touches even 1 single time will die. Nothing else comes remotely close to the lack of fun of playing with a wizard and realizing you don't matter at all.
Heh, "assuming there are no major balance changes." Well that aged well. Fatshark must have done the upcoming balance changes just to troll ya!
Hey aren't you that Conan exiles modder?
@@deusvultinfidel753 Uh, yup.
do the Dark Tide.
I’m honestly a bit pissed how they ‘over nerfed’ SoT, at least they could have kept some of her pre nerf skills, not completely reworking her.. 😢
High skilled shades are s-tier. The class has better clutch than handmaiden if played well while also having enough damage to kill everything. Just imho not quite a boss killer with a classic s&d huntress build. That weapon really ain't good for dodge dancing a boss, so you usually don't get to do max dps against bosses. She still has decent to high boss damage with a decanter potion tho.
Also imho there is no contest that BW is the strongest career in the game. Corruscating staff is just that dumb. While you say she has no support I say that she has a double stagger ult on a dash with insane range and a 26 damage shieldbash.While this setup is weakish against CW patrols and specials, she gets to obliterate every other challenge in the game.
I also think you overvalue support quite a bit considering how little most buffs do for your team when not planned around. 20% damage is A LOT, if you get to hit a meaningful breakpoint out óf it. On most classes, equipped to do their job, it does barely anything as they should get those 1--shot breakpoints most of the time anyways on qp.
Overall Coru BW is a quite tanky career with the highest damage output in the game, very high versatility due to her being able to effectively kill almost everything, insane clutch potential due to her extremely strong ult and her being even stronger, if your teammates suck a killing enemies due to the way coruscating operates.
Ib has the insane tankiness and the best panic button in the game with the trollhammer on his side, but he also lacks special killing capabilities even more than bw and also requires extremely good aim for the trollhammer to unlock its full insanity. He removes far less threats than BW does, but his ult allows him (on a far longer cd than) to prevent the team from getting overrun. A situation BW entirely porevents in the first place by just killing enough enemies to prevent this from even occuring most of the time. He effectively removes the wipe condition patrol tho, so this is a big plus. Overall still propably the second strongest, but just not enough to outclass BW.
Soooo about that rebalance…
I highly disagree with what you said about Zealot. Not that you were wrong about his ranking, but rather with why you placed him where you did.
Zealot is NOT a quickplay career, he relies on having low hp, and there are just so many other careers that can ruin that for you. A waystalker with Rejuvenating locus, a grail knight’s grim blessing, and of course, any bot with medical supplies. Any one of these 3 things appearing in your game practically ruins your chances of playing Zealot effectively.
This is why I believe Zealot is a pre made group career only. Sure there’s no guarantee your entire play style will be nullified, but it’s a possibility.
For me Zealot is A tier in premade and C tier in QP.
BATTLE WIZARD IS IMMORTAL
hey it would be awesome if you'd be able to put out a merc guide if you get the chance!
Very interesting takes. The context of the tier list is Cata Quickplay. I will critique it viewing every class. I only have 1400 hours in the game so my opinions might not be fully rounded.
First things first, no class without a ranged weapon can be in S tier. S tier means you can solo carry and clutch in Cata QP, and not have to rely on your (wild range of skill level) teammates. Grail Knight and WP cannot be in S tier for this reason.
Personally, my S tier, which is described as: [Classes that can do everything, carry a full team and clutch when needed]
Battle Wizard, WHC, Shade, Handmaiden, Foot Knight, Mercenary. Most of these coincide with your S tier too.
Why Merc? He has extremely good horde clear, extremely good team utility with THP restoration, can snipe important specials by using the shout and then having a clear shot. He has potential of killing specials in a crowd, fantastic armor damage with the proper weapons. Only lacking in boss killing potential, but with a displacement ability, he can ledge bosses.
Why Shade? Shade has a higher solo/clutch potential than HM. Blur spamming lets you clear any amount of elites with constant crits, decent horde clear and decent boss damage no matter the weapon choice. I would argue that Shade is the single best clutcher/true solo class in the entire game
Why not IB? Because IB is held together by the existence of trollhammer torpedo. You take that out of the equation, IB sits around at the top of B tier.
Unchained is a sleeper carry at this time, due to the Scythe. It can neutralize any amount and any type of enemies in the game except for bosses and CWs. It staggers monks out of their combo, it stagger locks CWs until they overhead, again, not S tier because it depends on the scythe. With the Scythe, unchained is the highest consistent melee dps in the game hands down.
My A tier would be: [Classes that are great, but lack something to make them solo carry Cata QP games]
GK,UC,Zealot, BH, WS, Sister,Slayer,RV
Most of these coincide with your picks as well.
BH is the same as shade, very hard to play properly but can absolutely carry entire teams, as long as the team is capable of dealing with horde and chaos patrols, BH deals with everything else, spawnkilling specials, etc.
IMO, B tier is:[Classes that rely on teammates more, but still useful and can contribute greatly to winning
IB,Necro,WP
Why Necro? Because compared to all the A tier classes, necro has sub-par elite damage, unless you're using the soulstealer staff. But using the soulstealer staff makes you unable to take advantage of the crit explosion talent (which is necro's strongest talent), which synergizes well with beam staff and coru. Necro is a niche specialist. She can do one job really well by having a build that's focused on it. Mediocre in everything else.
Why WP? You need a good team. You need people who can take advantage of your bubble, people who can kill bosses, people who snipe specials, because WP does none of those things. Since the tier list is for Cata QP, warrior priest has an extreme variance, where it can enable good players for smooth wins, but do absolutely nothing when paired with worse players.
C tier is:[Classes that don't contribute towards wins 90% of the time when played by an average player]
Pyro,Engineer,Huntsman
Hmm I was not aware of the Unchained scythe situation, I'm definitely gonna have to check it out. Your opinion on the Necro may change if you try running the flaming flail with reaping and the crit explosion talent. I disagree with you on some things but I think your logic sound and appreciate ya adding to the conversation
Maybe i skimmed over of some parts of the video, like you justifying your BH and Shade placement by saying average skill players. Again, this is correct, if you take a high-skill build, but you are not high-skilled, you will spend half the game on the floor. But BH and Shade have varous talents that enable gameplay for lower-skilled players, but no one uses those builds, since they are "nOt MeTa" and "rOyAlE w/ ChEesE sAiD iS bAd".
Hungry wind shade is insane, has really high clutch potential, can be played with literally any weapon, no need for dual daggers (which take the most skill to use IMO, and absolutely ground an average player)
Just Reward BH, again, very low skill, 0 headshots requirement, CW delete button, high boss damage (although not as high as double shotted) but again, doesn't require headshots at all.
Necro has some bugs and quirks at this time.
Reaping works on staves. This means that you can pierce entire patrols with Coruscation M1 (the shotgun attack), beam staff shotgun too.
Cursed blood triggers on every pellet of a shotgun attack, without any sort of reduced damage or diminishing returns. If you crit, you can kill about 17 stormvermin with simply shooting your staff twice. But again, not a high tier class, because the crit explosion kind of needs a WHC in the team, and otherwise she is just a niche specialist, like i said.
Your criteria feels a little janky. If the criteria for S tier is being able to carry and solo, then Zealot and RV should absolutely be there-really any class with FoW Cata solos would fit the critera. I think excelling in a niche is fine if it's an important niche: IB and GK might not be able to solo, sure, but they make some elements of the game so trivial that your team likely never finds themselves in a position to die unless they're really trying.
Your decision to place BH so high up feels like an assumption that everyone who plays BH can handle how difficult he is to play, which just feels wrong. Sure, I've been carried by a few plugged into the matrix before, but most of the time BH in Cata QP would fare far better as a different class since he requires more skill than you get out in results, which is why Huntsman always gets placed so low. I'd say BH scales better into Cata twitch, but that's a different tier list altogether. I think Waystalker falls into this same camp too, just being slightly overrated.
Finally I know most people disagree with me here but I will die on the hill that necro is a really strong class. I think fundamentally being able to create your own frontline gives necro so much room to optimize in dps that it isn't funny, and the 80%dr talent seems so overlooked for how good it is: As long as you don't play with an OE spraying lead in your ass and you aren't wasting hits to dumb rats then the ability to survive overheads comfortably lets her go to town. Literally equip a high dps setup and never stop attacking. She feels slightly less effective than UC but there's absolutely zero risk involved compared to UC's very heavy risk. Oh, and her ult is ranged and slightly staggers for clutch moments.
@@RichardRichardman The fact that really good players can solo FoW with RV and Zealot doesnt make the classes a do-everything-carry for an average player. But all tier lists are subjective. You can always find any nitpick in any tierlist. For me any BH that is killing specials actively is already a good BH. Even if they can't chain monsters. Sure maybe at that point any backliner would be better, and lower tier for BH is completely justified. His potential is much higher than huntsman though.
I don't think unchained is risky at all, as long as you don't get disabled and you have a constant flow of enemies, you can loop abandon just fine. My playtime with necro is really low so you might be right about the dps uptime.
“no class without a ranged weapon can be S tier” is a crazy take considering how strong GK and WP are.
Shade is clearly S tier in good hands.
LETS GO HANDMADIEN S TIERRRRRRR
Shade in skilled hands is not A tier. Its S or even S+. Prolly the most OP charc if you know how to use it
S+ for sure
U need gathger and talk together cause you utubers tell oposite stuff as other her eis enginer in lst place when on wet magic iots S tier so how is that?
Overall I think the point of a tier-list is to rank different classes based on where they stand among one another...so I think your putting nearly everyone in A or S tiers kinda defeat the point of a tier list. I would have spread them out more. As for your assessment of individual classes I disagree with...
Necromancer - Her skeletons ARE her buffs. The very presence of those extra bodies draw enemy attention away and provides very hand buffer. But...yeah A-tier makes sense regardless.
Ranger - I think he belongs in a higher tier. You're correct that he shines amazingly well in a coordinated team, but in my experience, his ammo, potion, heals, and crowd control support alongside his sniping ability makes him fantastic as a babysitter for stupid and incompetent quickplay teammates. Ranger existing does such a great job patching up the weakness of bad teammates I think it's underrated in your assessment
Shade - I think Shade deserves to go down a tier because like you say, she literally offers nothing to the team besides damage. She can kill bosses super well, but that's not a very useful skill to have considering bosses only appear 1-4 times or so a level anyways, and they're often of a low priority compared to disablers and other specials. And uniquely with Shade, it doesn't matter what difficulty you play, from Recruit to Cataclysm, if it's Quickplay, expect your game to end because the Shade ran ahead of the group to backstab a target and get herself killed.
Grail Knight - while I don't disagree that he's kinda OP, his team-wide buffs are too RNG dependant because you can't control what you get, it's ease is level dependant, and they don't work well in Weaves and Chaos Wastes. His lack of special sniping is especially massive a drawback. He's a fantastic damage dealer, but I think he's just A.
Zealot - I think his lack of any useful utility and contribution to the team should drop him a tier. He does good damage, but to be perfectly honest, even the lowest damage careers in this game already do more than enough damage in Cataclysm, doubly so when you're in a team of 4.
Pyromancer - D-tier. She's worse than the Unchained in melee, worse than battle wizard at range, doesn't offer anything to her team that the Pyromancer can uniquely do well, and her career skill sucks and requires focusing in order to actually hit what you need it to hit.
PS - just for fun...any chance of a Map Tier List?
pyromancer with dagger or scythe is very powerful while having access to bolt staff, theres no way pyro is d-tier
@@cykablyat6348 ALL the careers are "very powerful", but in relations to all other careers, Pyromancer is a stinker that feeds at the bottom. Hell atleast with Outcast Engineer it's down there because it's overly reliant on team cooperation to shine, and shine hard when it finally can, it's got potential. In contrast the pyromancer is low skill floor and ceiling and excels at nothing.
@@G1ingy excels at nothing? she has the best melee dps out of all the sienna careers (necro does scale better with higher density modded difficulties), and she has pretty good survivability through her ult generation, also outcast engineer doesnt need much team cooperation because he has trollhammer with 10 bombs, he can solo a boss +cata horde at the same time
@@G1ingy Not sure how youre deciding low skill floor and ceiling for pyro. It seems that you've not even hit the skill floor if youre saying what youre saying. A good pyro player can dominate a game without a team. Id argue that it has a very high skill floor, where if youre good at her, she can easily be one of the strongest careers on the team.
Ofc FK is S tier, best class !
Sister of thorns "B" lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. S+
why?
And when everyone's S tier... noone will be