The Wheel of Time does it at a smaller scale with more "tell don't show" but still handles it well! It's used to make the main characters look intelligent in their maneuvering
R. F. Kuang's Babel: Or the Necessity of Violence uses colonialism, and Arkady Martine's An Empire Called Memory focuses on diplomacy and political autonomy.
@miketime4290 random stuff off the internet, I found one that was really good called reverend insanity. Still searching for other novels with smart characters who are not just the MC though.
My favorite fantasy political dramas tend to be from China or Korea. Arthdal Chronicles has great politics and themes; deals with early kingdom building (how does one become a king, and should one?) and dynamics between different tribes, religions, gods, etc. Really good, love it to pieces. Alchemy of Souls has some pretty good politics, especially Season 1; deals with the politics surrounding a specific magic and one lads inability to use it. The Untamed has some fantastic politics that are very well connected to the story's themes, again deals with how a type of magic gets used and misunderstood politically. Ashes of Love (Heavy Sweetness Ashes like Frost) centers around the royal family of Heaven Realm and how their dynamics affect politics and vis versa amongst the Realms (there are 5 main Realms that play big roles).
I'm loving this channel so far. People often take wrong lessons from "iconic" plots or climaxes of cathartic sequences but only few truly understand the real construction behind the storylines. You clearly know your stuff, and it'll help many young authors!
This was definitely a problem for me trying to watch the Witcher TV show. I still cannot tell you (after multiple times watching) what the main nations are or who the main villains were or what anybody's motivation was in the political moves. 🤦 I am a writer and love political intrigue in fantasy but struggle ti write it well. This was a great video to help me rethink how I'm currently utilizing it.
I highly recommend Fonda Lee's Jade Saga for its cool geopolitics and family drama, or The Traitor Baru Cormorant for a compelling depiction of a fascist state using economics and politics to control its people
Fonda Lee is spectacular. The series is also known as The Green Bone Saga, and Jade City is the first book. One good description I read is The Godfather meets Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I'm definitely going to read it again.
I kinda miss the time when writing was easier, you could just slap some history pieces together then put a no neck chosen one with a big sword in, add a side kick for comedic relief, a hot warrior princess for lovy dovy stuff and some cartoonish dark lord with fifty million lines of exposition, there, you have a sword and magic story as good as Conan... these days scaling the mountain of perquisites for putting your fantasy into paper has become a monumental task, between the world building and conlanging and magic systems and these days political intriguing and strategy and action choreography and what not... if you want to keep everybody happy you will get nowhere fellow writers, just write, let the story drives your need for building up the world, let your world have just enough to make your story work properly in it... don't lose your vision, the story is more and more important than sum of its parts...
Funny thing is, the audiences are more sophisticated but at the same time they’re not? If you think about some of the latest fantasy hits (like the romantasy stuff) it is often really half baked work 🤷♂️ so I agree that not necessarily every aspect of your novel needs to be perfect for success, sometimes all you need is to hit the algorithm jackpot on TikTok 😂
@@sohrabroozbahani4700Trying to suceed as a writer was always hard. Even the great writers had tonnes of rejection before finding success. If you like wfiting, just keep doing it.
@@LoreGeist People have trying to mix the two genres (romance and fantasy) for years. I remember reading some of the earlier works. Writers struggled with getting the balance right, because the two genres are so different. Writers seem to be getting better at it now.
Great video, really interesting and I fully agree, the political and cultural tensions between societies is a huge theme of my world. However, just some criticism on the editing, lay off the jump cuts, its way to often and very noticable. Having an um here or there is ok, and would help with the constant cuts and help keep a natural flow instead of the kinda distracting constant sudden change, and it can kinda be heard in your voice. Just some advice for you to take or leave. Saying um, or whatever your cutting out is a little better then consistent jump cuts. ❤
@LoreGeist mostly on the face shots. I couldn't hear it really during the other scenes. But great work on the topic, it really made me consider the politics between the faction I'm working on!
Surprisingly sun eater. It’s not the forefront of the stories but it certainly is there and written well and subtly. Reminds me of asoiaf. A much more pulpy version of politics is red rising. Fun read but nothing more than surface level
I feel like some writers shoot them selves in the foot by adding political intrigue to a story that doesn’t really need it. The action/adventure parts of Wheel of Time, for example, are much stronger than the political plots in my opinion. I’m not saying intrigue plots never work, but if a writer can’t do them properly they shouldn’t feel like they have to try.
Thanks! I’d say it probably has more moving parts than game of thrones if you think about how there are also religious orders, gods, rebellious groups etc, besides the usual nobility intrigue. What do you think?
Even in GOT it was bad to very bad, for all it wonderful fantasy and world building. Sorry. Every move was a scheme for power or due to loyalty. It felt quite thin and like a conceptual TV series moving chess pieces around, not real life people. Same in Shogun. Boring. However well acted, well made and with great scheming and twists. But no, I dropped out. Fantasy especially needs more mystery, unfolding ideas, real characters, layered emotions and purposes. Real people, not chess players./pieces. There we agree.
I would argue there are many other motivations besides just loyalty to people doing political maneuvering in GoT, like the examples I mentioned in the video. Any series that do this well in your opinion?
@@LoreGeist Great question. I think TV series must have a driving narrative, so they must focus, where books, take the famous Tom Bombadil scene in LOTR, don't have to. And we see the same in most detectives, not power politics but research, all family moments feel like plugged on too mechanical. In GOT a few true loves, without all the, 'can I trust you, will this benefit me, let's plot together' would have been nice. Or I forgot them, as they were too shallow, except the weak wall soldier who has his own storyline. His care shone out. Kaos had a fun irrationality in some roles, and a few very diverse purposes, not all about power or wanting to gain more power.
I respectfully disagree but I understand. GOT gave a bad reputation to novel series. ASOIAF (GOT novel series) is superior in terms of political intrigue as compared to its television counterpart. I haven't read Shogun but it's not fantasy. It's more of historical fiction.
I love the game too the way it has the war going on in the background and u get see the effects first hand as you travel around and the giant Imperial Army camp and the people you meet who where effected by the war
@LoreGeist Totally recommend it. The manga is generally straight-up superior, though; I can think of two or so scenes where the incomplete anime adaptation improved upon the source material.
What's the best fantasy work that handles politics from a different angle than Game of Thrones?
The witcher books are amazing at this
Dune, because its politics inspired so many modern day writing both in books and movies
Try some Glen Cook. Dread Empire, Instrumentalities of the Night, and Tower of Fear are standouts for politics.
The Wheel of Time does it at a smaller scale with more "tell don't show" but still handles it well! It's used to make the main characters look intelligent in their maneuvering
R. F. Kuang's Babel: Or the Necessity of Violence uses colonialism, and Arkady Martine's An Empire Called Memory focuses on diplomacy and political autonomy.
fantasy needs more cunning, intelligent, and strategic minded people in general to flesh out the characters and the worldbuilding more.
What have you been reading?
@miketime4290 random stuff off the internet, I found one that was really good called reverend insanity. Still searching for other novels with smart characters who are not just the MC though.
@@noahyoung6524 try first law trilogy.
@@noahyoung6524what did you think of Reverend Insanity? I’ve never heard of that series before
@@Yazzieeee it's really good but be warned it is dark as hell and the MC is not a good person.
My favorite fantasy political dramas tend to be from China or Korea. Arthdal Chronicles has great politics and themes; deals with early kingdom building (how does one become a king, and should one?) and dynamics between different tribes, religions, gods, etc. Really good, love it to pieces. Alchemy of Souls has some pretty good politics, especially Season 1; deals with the politics surrounding a specific magic and one lads inability to use it. The Untamed has some fantastic politics that are very well connected to the story's themes, again deals with how a type of magic gets used and misunderstood politically. Ashes of Love (Heavy Sweetness Ashes like Frost) centers around the royal family of Heaven Realm and how their dynamics affect politics and vis versa amongst the Realms (there are 5 main Realms that play big roles).
Thanks, I now have good pointers as to what I should watch next. Great pitch too.
I’m a massive Dune nerd. My favourite aspect is the political intrigue between all the Houses and factions.
I'm loving this channel so far. People often take wrong lessons from "iconic" plots or climaxes of cathartic sequences but only few truly understand the real construction behind the storylines. You clearly know your stuff, and it'll help many young authors!
Thanks for the very encouraging comment!👌 glad you’re enjoying the content!
This was definitely a problem for me trying to watch the Witcher TV show. I still cannot tell you (after multiple times watching) what the main nations are or who the main villains were or what anybody's motivation was in the political moves. 🤦 I am a writer and love political intrigue in fantasy but struggle ti write it well. This was a great video to help me rethink how I'm currently utilizing it.
Yeah, the Witcher series has no substance to its political intrigue, it’s a shame.
What is the setting of your story?
I highly recommend Fonda Lee's Jade Saga for its cool geopolitics and family drama, or The Traitor Baru Cormorant for a compelling depiction of a fascist state using economics and politics to control its people
Never heard of the series. Will check it out 👌
Fonda Lee is spectacular. The series is also known as The Green Bone Saga, and Jade City is the first book. One good description I read is The Godfather meets Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I'm definitely going to read it again.
I was gonna say the same thing! Fonda Lee really took political intrigue to a different level in the Greenbone Saga
I kinda miss the time when writing was easier, you could just slap some history pieces together then put a no neck chosen one with a big sword in, add a side kick for comedic relief, a hot warrior princess for lovy dovy stuff and some cartoonish dark lord with fifty million lines of exposition, there, you have a sword and magic story as good as Conan... these days scaling the mountain of perquisites for putting your fantasy into paper has become a monumental task, between the world building and conlanging and magic systems and these days political intriguing and strategy and action choreography and what not... if you want to keep everybody happy you will get nowhere fellow writers, just write, let the story drives your need for building up the world, let your world have just enough to make your story work properly in it... don't lose your vision, the story is more and more important than sum of its parts...
Funny thing is, the audiences are more sophisticated but at the same time they’re not? If you think about some of the latest fantasy hits (like the romantasy stuff) it is often really half baked work 🤷♂️ so I agree that not necessarily every aspect of your novel needs to be perfect for success, sometimes all you need is to hit the algorithm jackpot on TikTok 😂
@@LoreGeist writing is still fun... succeeding as a writer? Not as much anymore 😅
@@sohrabroozbahani4700Trying to suceed as a writer was always hard. Even the great writers had tonnes of rejection before finding success. If you like wfiting, just keep doing it.
@@LoreGeist People have trying to mix the two genres (romance and fantasy) for years. I remember reading some of the earlier works. Writers struggled with getting the balance right, because the two genres are so different. Writers seem to be getting better at it now.
For me, Fist Law World by Joe Abercrombie does it great. Not the same as in ASOIAF, but close enough
I like First Law’s take as well. It’s a bit satirical with the criticism of nobility and people in power and it does that well
Great video, really interesting and I fully agree, the political and cultural tensions between societies is a huge theme of my world.
However, just some criticism on the editing, lay off the jump cuts, its way to often and very noticable. Having an um here or there is ok, and would help with the constant cuts and help keep a natural flow instead of the kinda distracting constant sudden change, and it can kinda be heard in your voice.
Just some advice for you to take or leave. Saying um, or whatever your cutting out is a little better then consistent jump cuts. ❤
Hey 👋 thanks for the suggestion. Do you mean the jump cuts specifically on the parts I’m showing my face or everywhere in general?
@LoreGeist mostly on the face shots. I couldn't hear it really during the other scenes. But great work on the topic, it really made me consider the politics between the faction I'm working on!
Surprisingly sun eater. It’s not the forefront of the stories but it certainly is there and written well and subtly. Reminds me of asoiaf. A much more pulpy version of politics is red rising. Fun read but nothing more than surface level
I feel like some writers shoot them selves in the foot by adding political intrigue to a story that doesn’t really need it. The action/adventure parts of Wheel of Time, for example, are much stronger than the political plots in my opinion. I’m not saying intrigue plots never work, but if a writer can’t do them properly they shouldn’t feel like they have to try.
Subscribed. Great video. What do you think of the politics in Erickson's Malazan world?
Thanks! I’d say it probably has more moving parts than game of thrones if you think about how there are also religious orders, gods, rebellious groups etc, besides the usual nobility intrigue. What do you think?
I don't like Malazan. The world is miles wide but inches deep.
Speaking of GoT political intrigue, you look like Littlefinger's lesser known brother, Tinypinky!
lmao chaos isn’t a pit, it’s a ladder ☝🏼
Even in GOT it was bad to very bad, for all it wonderful fantasy and world building. Sorry. Every move was a scheme for power or due to loyalty. It felt quite thin and like a conceptual TV series moving chess pieces around, not real life people.
Same in Shogun. Boring. However well acted, well made and with great scheming and twists. But no, I dropped out.
Fantasy especially needs more mystery, unfolding ideas, real characters, layered emotions and purposes. Real people, not chess players./pieces. There we agree.
I would argue there are many other motivations besides just loyalty to people doing political maneuvering in GoT, like the examples I mentioned in the video.
Any series that do this well in your opinion?
@@LoreGeist Great question. I think TV series must have a driving narrative, so they must focus, where books, take the famous Tom Bombadil scene in LOTR, don't have to. And we see the same in most detectives, not power politics but research, all family moments feel like plugged on too mechanical. In GOT a few true loves, without all the, 'can I trust you, will this benefit me, let's plot together' would have been nice. Or I forgot them, as they were too shallow, except the weak wall soldier who has his own storyline. His care shone out. Kaos had a fun irrationality in some roles, and a few very diverse purposes, not all about power or wanting to gain more power.
Shogun isn't a fantasy though. And you need to read ASOIAF not watch hbo's fanfic
I respectfully disagree but I understand. GOT gave a bad reputation to novel series. ASOIAF (GOT novel series) is superior in terms of political intrigue as compared to its television counterpart. I haven't read Shogun but it's not fantasy. It's more of historical fiction.
@@morbidgirl6808 The novels were indeed much better content wise. The series were visually great.
The Demon Cycles. It is the fucking best.
The Witcher kinda does good with it.
I love the game too the way it has the war going on in the background and u get see the effects first hand as you travel around and the giant Imperial Army camp and the people you meet who where effected by the war
Shoukoku no Altair. More of alt-history than fantasy, per se, though.
Never heard of this one before. Gonna check it out
@LoreGeist Totally recommend it. The manga is generally straight-up superior, though; I can think of two or so scenes where the incomplete anime adaptation improved upon the source material.
No more dogshit politics! Action, adventure and boobies needs to return to fantasy and sci-fi!
lmao I wouldn’t mind funner stuff either tbh
@@LoreGeist George R.R. Martin won't finish his series because he's a bloated boomer communist
@@LoreGeist George R.R. Martin won't finish his series because he's a boomer communist
@@LoreGeist George R.R. Martin won't finish his series because he's a communist.
@@LoreGeist George R.R. Martin won't finish his series out of ideological spite.