What happens when the Starks leave Winterfell?

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  • Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024

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  • @lemoi08
    @lemoi08 Месяц назад +1472

    The sackville starks move in

  • @GregMcNeish
    @GregMcNeish Месяц назад +425

    Something worth remembering when considering how the winter weather gets worse and worse as you head towards Winterfell is that early in the series it's explicitly noted that Winterfell is the HAVEN in cold winters. It was the place where winter had the LEAST impact in all the north. The books speak of families from surrounding areas coming to Winterfell to take quarters, so they could take shelter when their own homes were ravaged by the cold and snow.
    So, not only is it surreal to have winter seemingly emanating from Winterfell, as this video so wonderfully illustrates. It's a stark juxtaposition from how Winterfell has always been in previous winters.
    And yes, that pun was very much intended.

    • @keithboynton
      @keithboynton Месяц назад +19

      Well observed!

    • @igorlopes7589
      @igorlopes7589 Месяц назад +2

      Not necessarily, the southern coasts of the North don't seem to be colder than Winterfell. As in the Barrowlands and White Habour

    • @natesmith2408
      @natesmith2408 Месяц назад +14

      Yes, Winterfell has underground hot springs. Somehow they even pipe the hot water through the walls? Not sure how but I think I remember reading that in canon.

    • @OptimusWombat
      @OptimusWombat Месяц назад +5

      Yes, Robert discussed that in the previous video.

    • @KiichiIsanu
      @KiichiIsanu Месяц назад +2

      @@natesmith2408I believe Robert spoke about that in the previous video in this series

  • @victorzarenin9286
    @victorzarenin9286 Месяц назад +293

    Every time I watch one of these videos I'm more and more impressed by the work GRRM put into crafting this story, and more pissed that he'll never finish it.

    • @julianhart2247
      @julianhart2247 Месяц назад +23

      Quiet your mouth! He will, he must.?

    • @Alamo-cz5xc
      @Alamo-cz5xc Месяц назад +24

      it's already finished, he's just fucking with us

    • @noamias4897
      @noamias4897 Месяц назад +7

      Any day now!

    • @blueblack3591
      @blueblack3591 Месяц назад +8

      Yes he is getting old and doesnt have the capacity or energy he once had

    • @tiredlocke
      @tiredlocke 27 дней назад

      Heretics. The lot of you.

  • @carlrood4457
    @carlrood4457 Месяц назад +176

    I don't think the Starks simply returning will fix things, at least not completely. The pact is broken. If it were that easy to fix, then the Starks would have been free to come and go so long as they weren't gone for too long. MArtin isn't one for easy fixes.

    • @dromankass8655
      @dromankass8655 Месяц назад

      The was a Sci-Fi book called Red Dwarf, about a mining ship lost in deep space 3 million years from Earth. Most it's crew killed in a radiation leak, the last survivors were the ship's Computer, Holly, the last human Dave Lister (technician 3rd class) Arnold Judas Rimmer (a hologram) a service droid called Kryten, and a lifeform that evolved from the ship's cat, known only as 'Cat'.
      In part of the book, while the four crew members are trapped in a VR game, the ship's computer, Holly, who has basically been running Red Dwarf manages to boost his IQ but at the cost of reducing his life-expectancy down to a runtime of 3.25 minutes. In a desperate attempt to preserve his remaining lifespan he shuts himself down, along with all ship system and functions including the engines.
      When the crew managed to escape the VR game and awaken back on the ship, they are shocked to find that the vessel is operating on emergency power, Holly is off-line and that the engines are dead. Also there is a rogue planet on a direct collision course with the ship.
      This is a good example of something not being a easy fix - Holly shut the entire ship down in a second, but working flat out with the service droids, the crew estimate that it will take them ages to perform all the complicated tasks to restart the massive ship's engines.
      Rimmer: 'So how long will it take us to get the engines up and running?'
      Kryten: 'About three weeks.'
      Rimmer: 'And how long until the planet hits us?'
      Kryten: 'About three weeks.'

    • @FrizziExRose
      @FrizziExRose 29 дней назад +9

      I agree. I think it's going to take some old magic from Bran to save Winterfell. It's just going to take a while or some great sacrifice to get there.

    • @Krullio
      @Krullio 27 дней назад +2

      Indeed! If we look at the story of Azorahai a weapon was forged. What if this weapon is the warmth keeping the winter in winterfell? It required great sarcifice to forge that ‘sword’. It is probably very much Bran who learns this. Def not the red priestess. She doesn’t know. Just believes.
      However. There are many questions. Like. Jon is half Stark. Is that enough? Why is Winterfel centric to winter? The Other’s leader burrried there? Their God or a token? But then what and why the wall so far north if both are part of the defences? Can The Other’s now walk past? And the story should get a lot worse before that, so the Other’s must cross the wall. Just a battle where they are outside while the characters around Winterfel fight and work out the sarcifce and magic is prbably not enough.
      And how does Dany fit in? I think we all suspect that either she is the one to be sarcified or her dragons or both. But is only a Stark, Jon and/or Dany are involved in the magic then what will that mean for the other houses and their roles? And we still don’t know what the 13th lord commander learns us other than pacts are possible and the Other have some guile to them beyond horror, magic and a potentially huge army.
      Edit: an let’s not forget that the Starks are called the Kings of Winter. They must be that for a reason. And the sacrifice Bran saw at the heart tree of Winterfel Ages past. It could very well be that some magic bound Winter itself in the Starks too. They are their own guards. They are their own subsued evil and sacrifice their spirits to the dark God. In Some cuthullian horror pact.
      Hope @IDG covers these aspects.

  • @alexmckee4683
    @alexmckee4683 Месяц назад +74

    Jon Snow is as much a Stark as any of the Starks we know. The tale of Bael the Bard tells us so, which is why it shows up in his chapters. Bael stole away a Stark girl and had a child with her, all the current Starks descend from Bael as much as the Starks. Matrilineal descent works just fine for the Starks. Rhaegar 'stealing' Lyanna is an echo of that story, and thus Jon is as much a Stark as any of the other Starks. Ned says as much: "You might not have my name, but you have my blood".

    • @thelateescapist8266
      @thelateescapist8266 Месяц назад +6

      💯 I came to this comment section to say more or less the same thing. 😉

    • @fandommenace9575
      @fandommenace9575 Месяц назад +21

      Absolutely correct Jon is a Stark. Every Stark only ever has one Stark parent 🐺

    • @ChloeWeston-ny5wj
      @ChloeWeston-ny5wj Месяц назад +8

      @@fandommenace9575except Ned’s generation as Rickard married his cousin lyarra stark

    • @dromankass8655
      @dromankass8655 Месяц назад +9

      @@fandommenace9575 Very good point, as the other four living Starks in the book are half Tully and half Stark. I double the magical pact cares about family names, only bloodline, and Jenny Poole is not a Stark.

  • @juicegoose1699
    @juicegoose1699 Месяц назад +91

    Pretty rare that somebody’s voice is equally as great as their video concept/content

  • @RaynmanPlays
    @RaynmanPlays Месяц назад +154

    It could be a Witch King situation. The prophecy stating that, when there are no more Starks in Winterfell, the Long Night will begin. This ends up being twisted into the idea that it is Starks being in Winterfell that prevents the Long Night, but it is merely stating the timeframe.

    • @wanderingshade8383
      @wanderingshade8383 Месяц назад +26

      This Winterfell blizzard is probably not part of the long night. Because I think it actually started in ASOS. At the time of the Red Wedding, there's a big storm going on at the Twins and at Queenscrown (when Bran and Jon cross paths) roughly simultaneously, locations that are roughly equidistant from Winterfell in opposite directions. There's a storm around Winterfell and once winter comes that storm becomes a devastating blizzard.
      I could be wrong about this though

    • @afsdfsadhasfh
      @afsdfsadhasfh Месяц назад

      Then why is it centered in Winterfell?

  • @ryandagey502
    @ryandagey502 Месяц назад +79

    I really appreciate that the next episode in the series jumped right in to the figurative meat of the material. I was worried that we might have to wait before getting to such an interesting analysis. Always appreciate your insights, thanks for a great channel, your playlists are among my favorites.

  • @iradith
    @iradith Месяц назад +15

    I never read the name 'Winterfell' as being linked with 'to fall' in a verb sense...I always read it as in 'of terrible evil or ferocity; deadly', like the fell beasts of LOTR. Anyway, so happy you're doing this series, your Crypts of Winterfell videos of the (caped) old days was how I got into you, thank you!

  • @foobar9220
    @foobar9220 Месяц назад +47

    There is nothing better than a discussion about the heart of winter after a heavy November snowfall last night. Really sets the stage. And it looks like we might even get a dream of spring (probably a false spring) on Sunday ;)

    • @Levacque
      @Levacque Месяц назад +4

      We've got a huge snowfall just getting started as I speak. Very well-timed video.

    • @robertpruitt5704
      @robertpruitt5704 Месяц назад +2

      @@foobar9220 part of the reason I fell in love with this series had to do with weather. I picked the first book up and a day later we had an ice storm that knocked out power in my area for a week. It was the perfect setting to read my new favorite book by the fire.

  • @LusiaEyre
    @LusiaEyre Месяц назад +63

    Although the exact time of the First Long Night is uncertain, the usually assumed 8000 years is a really, really long time for ones enemy to stay away. And however the Long Night was ended the first time, the Others did stay away. So completely that they became myth and legend. Even the Nights Watch stopped believing in the supernatural. Whether by promise or threat they retreated so far north and for so long that it begs the question what made them start moving south again?
    After the Long Night the most significant incident relating to the Others was The Night King and his corpse bride’s rule of terror. After that, seemingly nothing until Aegon had his dragon dream and made the move to conquer Westeros. And one could argue that that was the beginning of the end for the Starks, since it led us to where we are now. And they get closer, and stronger, and bolder kind of in correlation to the dwindling of the Starks. Like they could sense it. That Winterfell will fall, and Winter will rise again (or something).
    It almost seems deliberate - setting up Starks for failure, getting them out of Winterfell, playing the long game with a stronger player, that’s there at last to be challenging enough. Or maybe a self-fulfilling prophecy? Aegon conquered Westeros in response to his dream, but by conquering it he also set everything in motion.
    Winterfell being the epicentre of winter, begs the question if the Winter fell there and was imprisoned? There are some theories of a Winter/Night/Ice Queen trapped in the oldest part of the crypts. The ancient prison guarded by statues and spirits of Kings of Winter.
    And what are the Others aiming for by moving south? Is their plan to simply take over more lands? Why now and not thousand years ago?
    The 8th season of the show can hardly be used for proper clues, since it was so rushed and written by not-so-clever people, but for some reason, the Others are aiming for Winterfell. It’s explained as the Night King coming for Bran. I never understood that. So what that Bran is a cloud storage of human memory? If you kill all humans, his importance is a moot point? I don’t know if I am missing the point, or if the Others purposefully piling on Winterfell was a fact of the story and they just opted to justify it in the least exciting and lore-y way?

    • @DneilB007
      @DneilB007 Месяц назад +13

      I very much appreciate this insight. A reunited Ice King/Queen is a great counterpoint to the Jon/Danny pairing of Fire and, if they are a return of the Night King and his corpse bride, a great bit of foreshadowing.
      Thanks for sharing this; I really like it! 👍

    • @TheStrategyGamerPro
      @TheStrategyGamerPro Месяц назад +5

      It would also kind of fit George's style of messing with popular fantasy tropes. Where the evil king leading his undead army doesn't actually want to conquer, he just wants his wife back. Thus giving the fairytale story to the 'bad guys'.
      That's probably not likely, but I do expect some twist where the White Walkers actually aren't as evil as we think.

  • @darkaxel1991
    @darkaxel1991 Месяц назад +29

    George has mentioned alot about the "Mereenese Knot" problem he had when writing about the arrival of a bunch of characters to Mereen and the timing. I suspect he's having a similar problem with bringing characters back to Winterfell.

  • @lyarrastark6254
    @lyarrastark6254 Месяц назад +28

    Thank you, Robert. You notice so many details I missed in the books. Winterfell and the North were always the most intriguing in the books. Great video!

  • @pittlebelge
    @pittlebelge Месяц назад +27

    I got nothing to support this really, but i like to think that it's a prophetic warning warped by time. Something along the lines of "The long night will start when there are no Starks in Winterfell" and that prophecy got twisted by the millennia to the simple injunction.

    • @Scott-po6go
      @Scott-po6go Месяц назад

      Except white walkers were seen before any Starks left Winterfell.

  • @samtagg8754
    @samtagg8754 Месяц назад +38

    I've read the books several times and never even noticed the disparity between the weather at Winterfell and every where else!

  • @saleembarmania5295
    @saleembarmania5295 Месяц назад +13

    these vids will really help George with ideas to finish the books.

    • @viperswhip
      @viperswhip Месяц назад

      I think the problem with these channels as they have put far more thought into the books than George did, and he's feeling pressured to live up to all this shit we've been watching. Watch Lightbringer haha, there is no way George thought of all that symbolism.

  • @Grayto
    @Grayto 28 дней назад +6

    I don't know if this relevant but heavy snows only really happen when the temperature near the ground is relatively WARMER compared to the atmospheric air but still below or near 0º C. Very cold and dry areas can receive very little snow. The heavy snow around Winterfell may occur BECAUSE it is warmer, which make sense with the "hot springs there.
    However, this doesn't line up with previous years reporting Winterfell as a kind of haven against bad winter conditions. Nonetheless, it's interesting to note that the true "hear of winter" wouldn't have much snow.

  • @lancekyser14
    @lancekyser14 Месяц назад +10

    Excellent theory Robert! I never thought about or realized how there’s no crazy storm in the north but Winterfell is literally besieged with a storm.

  • @markfisher2683
    @markfisher2683 Месяц назад +60

    It would seem that the power of Winterfell is protecting itself from outsiders until a Stark returns….

    • @Levacque
      @Levacque Месяц назад

      Possibly! Maybe that's why the crypts are completely frozen shut.

    • @michal22011
      @michal22011 Месяц назад +11

      yes and ghost from winterfell is another example of castle protecting itself

    • @mryoungandbrave1
      @mryoungandbrave1 Месяц назад +7

      Or the magic of the Kings of Winter is trying desperately to protect the True Winterfell, The Crypts.

  • @UndergroundMadeon
    @UndergroundMadeon Месяц назад +16

    My theory is that Winterfell is a natural source of powerful ice magic. Some kind of magic ritual was performed by Bran the Builder beneath Winterfell, blood magic that utilized his own blood. This ritual redirected the ice of Winterfell northwards, which was utilized to create the wall. In order to maintain the wall, the magic of Winterfell needs to be perpetually redirected north through this same ritual, hence why there always needs to be stark blood in Winterfell. Someone of Bran's bloodline must stay near the ritual site/idol beneath Winterfell, else the spell fails. If the starks leave, the ritual fails, magic stops being redirected to the wall and returns to Winterfell. That's why Winterfell is being covered in snow, and this will ultimately lead to the wall breaking/collapsing.

    • @natesmith2408
      @natesmith2408 Месяц назад +2

      Pretty sure in the books the reason it's warmer in Winterfell is because of under ground hot springs. Like 80% sure it says something about piping the hot water through the walls of the castle to keep it warm.

    • @felixfruhauf4940
      @felixfruhauf4940 Месяц назад +2

      @@natesmith2408that's the point though. Are they actual natural hot springs or are they there unnaturally because redirecting the cold magic away from winterfell by Bran created an unbalance and it was interpreted in the Millenia after him as "natural hot springs"?

  • @jordymontes95
    @jordymontes95 Месяц назад +56

    Well without the Starks who will remind everyone that "Winter is Coming" every autumn?

    • @abelbabel8484
      @abelbabel8484 Месяц назад +5

      Autumn.

    • @YarPirates-vy7iv
      @YarPirates-vy7iv Месяц назад +4

      ​@abelbabel8484 I thought Autumn Stark was carried off by wildlings. Did she escape?!

    • @ianweir3608
      @ianweir3608 Месяц назад

      How will the people know? What if they get caught off-guard?

    • @williammathias3253
      @williammathias3253 Месяц назад +1

      The Weather Channel? 😂

    • @StartTheJoust
      @StartTheJoust Месяц назад +1

      Finnish people. They always know. And Canadians.

  • @PWazza83w
    @PWazza83w 29 дней назад +5

    Hot Springs in Winterfell. Hot Pie down in the riverlands. Hot Pie is a secret stark, son of Neds older brother, and will be the first to Winterfell as cook.

  • @Anduril729
    @Anduril729 Месяц назад +8

    I've been loving the GoT and LotR content lately, perfect timing on this one

  • @kickflippro3
    @kickflippro3 Месяц назад +13

    13:57 underground is a constant temperature in real life, so no magic needed for that

    • @relentlesslyquirky2904
      @relentlesslyquirky2904 Месяц назад +1

      A constant 60-70 though. That would feel balmy coming from a winter snowstorm. The fact that there is a chill there seems magical.

    • @kickflippro3
      @kickflippro3 Месяц назад +1

      @ sorry I live in the desert 60 is uncomfortably cold to me

  • @urikorsikov843
    @urikorsikov843 Месяц назад +4

    Arthur: "What does it mean to be king?"
    Merlin: "You will be the land and the land will be you. If you fail, the land will perish. As you thrive, the land will blossom."
    --------
    Arthur: "Have you found the secret that I have lost?"
    Percival: "You and the land are one. Drink from the chalice and you will be reborn and the land with you."
    From the movie, Excalibur
    --------
    Merlin: "...and while the King lies there under the stone the Kingdom shall not fall. For as long and longer than it has stood before, the Dance shall stand again, with the light striking it from the living heaven. And I shall bring back the great stone to lay upon the grave-place, and this shall be the heart of Britain, and from this time on all the kings shall be one King and all the gods one God. And you shall live again in Britain, and forever, for we will make between us a King whose name will stand as long as the Dance stands, and who will be more than a symbol; he will be a shield and a living sword."
    From the novel, The Crystal Cave

  • @pinstripesuitandheels
    @pinstripesuitandheels Месяц назад +30

    Isn't there an army of the dead buried beneath Winterfell? All those generations of Stark warriors laid to rest in that cavernous crypt where non Starks feel a foreboding presence? My guess is they are a sort of reverse white walker army that only a Stark can lead.

    • @hdmb9180
      @hdmb9180 Месяц назад +10

      Ahhh resurrected wight Jon leading an army of undead ancient Stark kings and lords in the Long Night wouid go so so hard man

    • @Patches2212
      @Patches2212 Месяц назад +3

      ​@hdmb9180 Jon also feels like he is not meant to be in the crypt though, similar to King Robert, so why would it be him leading the armies then?

    • @mryoungandbrave1
      @mryoungandbrave1 Месяц назад +4

      @Patches2212 Things may be different after he's reborn. If he really is Targaryen, I could see the Crypt welcoming him home, as he was a 'Stark' with Dragon's blood when he died, and he could be reborn a Targaryen with a Stark's heart, and have the King's of Winter follow him. Or they follow Sansa as his Queen of Winter.

    • @festuskamoni5884
      @festuskamoni5884 28 дней назад

      Theon the hungry wolf wanting to massacre andals again

  • @louisetreadway7996
    @louisetreadway7996 Месяц назад +10

    I always thought that the name Winterfell meant that winter was "fell" as in deadly, and also that winter would "fall" on the north especially.

    • @Levacque
      @Levacque Месяц назад +4

      It actually refers to high hills - "fell" is a middle English word from the Old Norse "fjall," which means mountain and can still be found in Scandinavian languages.
      So Winterfell is "the Hill of the Kings of Winter." It fits perfectly with Bran's earliest descriptions of the castle being built around the hills.

    • @RyenPacino
      @RyenPacino Месяц назад +3

      Another interpretation is that there’s speculation it’s the location where the first long night was ended, where the forces of winter…fell. Potentially by a pact made between the Starks and the Others.

    • @matthewparker9276
      @matthewparker9276 Месяц назад +1

      I've always thought of it in the sense of "a fell place."

  • @omarbey3868
    @omarbey3868 Месяц назад +5

    Thank you for the great video. I wonder how all of this ties into what Bran saw when he was inside the body of Summer. In the last chapter of "A Clash of Kings" (book2) page 721, Bran is down in the crypts. Summer is outside of the castle watching it burn. Bran then sees "a Serpent with wings, belching fire" coming up from under Winterfell and it burns everything then disappears.
    Because he is in Summer, he thinks like a wolf and does not think much of it other than bearing his teeth. Later, as they emerge from the crypts he wonders if anyone heard them break out of the crypts and Osha says we made enough noise to wake a Dragon.
    Anyway, food for thought.

  • @SelphieTheNutter
    @SelphieTheNutter Месяц назад +7

    Another amazing video, thank you Robert.
    One video series i would love to see you make is a actual book reading series. Where you read the game of thrones books to your fans. One chapter, per video. You have the perfect voice for a audio book narrator.

  • @georgeagathangelou5303
    @georgeagathangelou5303 Месяц назад +3

    Ned's body eventually returning to winterfell at last could be very symbolically important

  • @heathermason9311
    @heathermason9311 Месяц назад +3

    15:20 He most definitely is a Stark, his mother was a Stark.

  • @bunnbonn0
    @bunnbonn0 Месяц назад +6

    I get so happy every time I see you post

  • @jacobbrown5962
    @jacobbrown5962 29 дней назад +2

    10:32 The wording can be interpreted as the Heart of Winter and North of the Wall are 2 diff things Bran looks at, meaning the Heart of Winter doesn't have to be North of the Wall specifcally speaking.

  • @PainfullySubjective
    @PainfullySubjective Месяц назад +2

    these videos are always a pleasure. thank you, in deep geek!

  • @robertpruitt5704
    @robertpruitt5704 Месяц назад +10

    I keep forgetting that you cannot take anything for granted in this series. Even subtle descriptions of the weather are filled with hidden meanings.

    • @michaelbayer5094
      @michaelbayer5094 Месяц назад +2

      After watching and listening to Robert's videos I realize 2 things:
      1. Robert read the books much more closely than I did. That's why these vids are fantastic. He caught all the nuances and little details.
      2. GRRM seems to put great effort and meaning into writing all those little details.
      Alas, I've been ruined by the facile immediacy of TV and movies. At least these vids help me catch up on all that I missed.

    • @robertpruitt5704
      @robertpruitt5704 Месяц назад +1

      @ I worry that GRRM has written something so complex and layered with nuance that he won’t be able to complete it, thus it has taken thirteen years and counting for the latest installment.

  • @MURPH10US
    @MURPH10US Месяц назад +3

    I always remember thinking wow, this storm seems really crazy when I dirst read this. Now it makes sense.

  • @mryoungandbrave1
    @mryoungandbrave1 Месяц назад +2

    I think it may be possible that Winterfell is where the first 'King of Winter' fell, and the Weirwood Tree grew over his grave.

  • @giggityguy
    @giggityguy Месяц назад +7

    I hope that Martin does something with Rickon. He's been such a non-character for the entire series, both in the books and the show

    • @Hey_Canadian
      @Hey_Canadian Месяц назад

      Kid was 3 at the beginning of the book series. You want a detailed character arc of his potty training?

    • @giggityguy
      @giggityguy Месяц назад

      @@Hey_Canadian I guess it's not so much that I want him to be a POV character or anything, I just want him to be relevant at all. He may be the only Stark in the North at the start of WoW, that's significant

  • @AussieActionFigures
    @AussieActionFigures Месяц назад +1

    Great video. Keep them coming please.

  • @izuna77
    @izuna77 Месяц назад +1

    So now I'm curious, and this is a question for the people who know the records of Westeros' history really well, what is the historical correlation of Starks in Winterfell to length of summers?
    Because the only thing we know about the logic of the seasons is that winter is as long as the summer that proceeded it, but that the length of those summers seems totally random. Off the top of my head: a harsh winter falls when Bran and Rickon leave and there are no Starks. In the Long Summer that proceeded it there are five Starks born, so there are an average of six Starks at any given time plus one half&half toasty Stark (I'm counting Jon, half his blood is Lyanna's and blood is what the trees care about). The last winter before that happens during Robert's Rebellion with one Stark taken to Dorne, two killed in the South (bones kept there throughout), one leaves to fight leaving only one in Winterfell. Also we get that false spring during the Tourney at Harrenhall. Possibly connected to Lord Stark was kind trying to make connections (which involves marriage packs) by sending his children, which would mean more Stark babies, but it ended up being the catalyst for the Rebellion (less Starks). I'd be curious to know if this pattern continues.

  • @michaeltalpas
    @michaeltalpas Месяц назад

    Winter Is Coming. Man, I get chills every time. I remember the first time I read that line; I knew it didn't simply mean weather.

  • @nl-oc9ew
    @nl-oc9ew Месяц назад +3

    Perhaps benjen? He's not confirmed dead in the books, nor is he likely Coldhands.

    • @Capodraste
      @Capodraste 28 дней назад

      I like to think of him as the murderer/ghost currently in Winterfell. Make more sense for me than a ironborn or wildling infiltrate.

  • @WhoIsCalli
    @WhoIsCalli 28 дней назад

    This was really fab. Thanks Robert

  • @Szkula
    @Szkula 16 дней назад

    Great ideas, I always assumed it was referring to the long night, past or present, as where Winter fell to humanity.

  • @rajatmw1999
    @rajatmw1999 Месяц назад

    My god! you create such great content. Please keep it up, I discovered this channel today only, and I am immersed in this video. Wow

  • @CloaknDagger
    @CloaknDagger Месяц назад

    Great video, had never heard of this theory before and now I'm convinced. Many thanks!!

  • @caseywatts5513
    @caseywatts5513 Месяц назад

    Truly brilliant writing from GRRM, I didn't even think about where the winter storm was originating from but did find it strange while reading Dance that the Wall seemed like a better place to be than Winterfell and even Brans movements of north seemed rather easy in comparison to Stannis.
    I do believe that Jon's revival and return to Winterfell wouldn't quell this storm, especially considering he thinks of the crypts often and he feels as if they are rejecting him. I think Winterfell will reject him as it rejects Jeyne Poole

  • @nickbrough8335
    @nickbrough8335 Месяц назад +2

    Even if Arya, Sansa or Bran return, they will be the last of the Starks surely ? Jon is a Targaryen by father and who ever marries either of the daughters will not be a Stark either. Reckon is the future of the Stark family line.

  • @cemberendsen4297
    @cemberendsen4297 29 дней назад

    Very interesting analyses. Many details I missed while reading!

  • @InterestedAmerican
    @InterestedAmerican Месяц назад +3

    I just hope we get another book. As it stands, it appears the entirety of this story has been placed on hold, with no chance of there ever being another book released. At least that's how it looks now, but we all know, looks can be deceiving. I have hope GRRM will complete the story, but as years pass, and his age catches up with him, will he have the time or the will to complete it? Only time will tell.

  • @saraleesky1479
    @saraleesky1479 27 дней назад

    Excellent commentary!

  • @anitareasontobelieve378
    @anitareasontobelieve378 Месяц назад

    Thanks for these thoughtful posts and for all the work that goes into it. Have you thought about reading for Audio books of all brands?? Your voice is soothing in a wholesome way. I'm a fan!

  • @facundomedina9762
    @facundomedina9762 Месяц назад

    It's also worth considering how this seemingly long summer ended by the end of a game of thrones, when Ned died and there were only 2 Starks left in Winterfell. And after Bran and Rickon left, Winter arrived. For such a long summer, it would seem a relatively short autumn

  • @jfarrar19
    @jfarrar19 Месяц назад +2

    Which is more powerful, winterfells origin magic, or Melissandres
    I don't think that will be how it goes. There was a compact made, that a Stark must stay in Winterfell. That compact was broken, and a new one must be made. Melisandre will "broker" it, likely sacrificing a Stark for it. Maybe Rickon.

  • @mil_enrama
    @mil_enrama Месяц назад +1

    hi robert thank you so much for the video. i am watching it while i bake pumpkin pie. the cold winds are rising but we are not dead and hope remains.

  • @RensvanDam-96
    @RensvanDam-96 27 дней назад

    I think that the hot spring waters running through the walls have stopped moving as well and have frozen up, otherwise the snow wouldn't be able to pile up inside the castle like that without melting. Maybe not having a Stark in Winterfell have magically put the castle in a type of hibernation.

  • @hurkajoker
    @hurkajoker Месяц назад

    I can't wait for you to touch on the Winterfell dragon theories as a part of this series. I'm honestly surprised you haven't gotten into it yet.

  • @JustaMomThatSims
    @JustaMomThatSims 26 дней назад

    Im really enjoying this series. Thank you.

  • @spaceyote7174
    @spaceyote7174 Месяц назад

    Watching this video on the same day as the first snowstorm of the year really enhanced the creepy vibe

  • @MissKriekentaart
    @MissKriekentaart Месяц назад

    I am so intrigued by this series 👀🌨️ I always reading the comments on IDG videos for even more theories!

  • @kylechristianverdida7635
    @kylechristianverdida7635 Месяц назад +2

    The 13th Lord Commander who eventually became The Night's King is definitely a Stark.

  • @thelateescapist8266
    @thelateescapist8266 Месяц назад +1

    Ghost is all the proof anyone should need that Jon is a Stark of Winterfell. The old gods sent 6 direwolves to Ned Stark's children not 5. And they sent Jon the one most obviously marked for their purposes. Jon even looks more like a Stark than his "trueborn" siblings save for Arya.
    Jon may be half Targaryen, which may allow him to ride a dragon, or even make a claim for the iron throne, but he was raised a Stark of Winterfell. And like only the truest Starks of Winterfell he understands that his first duty is to prepare the realms of men for the dark winds of winter.

  • @bhagavatdas
    @bhagavatdas Месяц назад +1

    This is going to be a nice series, it's giving nerdy details 😊😊😊

  • @TripleTSingt
    @TripleTSingt Месяц назад +25

    Jon is still a Stark on his Mothers side, half blood of the dragon and half the blood of the first men.

    • @carlrood4457
      @carlrood4457 Месяц назад +5

      Maybe, maybe not. Note how "Kingsblood" seems to be about declaring yourself and/or being recognized as such rather than anything genetic. If Lyanna married, she became a Targaryen. Would the magic still consider her a Stark.

    • @jfig3458
      @jfig3458 Месяц назад +7

      As much as i agree, the only problem is that it clearly states otherwise in the books. Jon's Crypt dreams clearly point to him that Winterfell doesn't consider him a Stark

    • @glamourweaver
      @glamourweaver Месяц назад +9

      If matrilineal heritage counted every noble in the North would be a Stark. This is the magic of a patrilineal and patriarchal society and this magic at least seems to acknowledge those concepts.
      If Winterfell acknowledges Jon as a Stark it will be because Robb named him one and his heir, not because of Lyanna’s blood.

    • @andrewness
      @andrewness Месяц назад +2

      After three thousand years, everyone within a hundred miles of Winterfell probably has Stark ancestry. It seems to be the name that matters.

    • @misterkami2
      @misterkami2 Месяц назад

      @@glamourweaver
      I wonder what would happen if the series plot would play out and Bran is in King's Landing, while Sansa holds the north

  • @charlesmcmanus4229
    @charlesmcmanus4229 Месяц назад +2

    I want to see the Others breach Winterfell, and have the weather suddenly clear-up. The Others weren’t invading, they were just trying to go home.

    • @misterkami2
      @misterkami2 Месяц назад +5

      Next I want to see the Night King put on a bright red outfit and he commands the white walkers to start making toys for all the children in the seven kingdoms so that he can distribute them through the chimneys while riding his dragon..
      ..Once more his jolly laughter of "Ho ho ho" was heard throughout the land and all the children, rich and poor rejoyced, for they knew that Winter would come for their house tonight

  • @TheStoneTargaryen
    @TheStoneTargaryen Месяц назад +1

    Quinn the Gmmmm theorized rickon might already be in the picture; just without our knowledge yet. Because Davos went to get him very early in Dance and stopped having chapter. So maybe a stark will be back soon, but we shall see

  • @Limubi1
    @Limubi1 28 дней назад

    Great stuff, as ever :D

  • @draw4kicks
    @draw4kicks Месяц назад

    Man you just keep getting better and better! This is by far the most interesting video on ASOIAF you’ve made thus far.
    This topic is something I’ve thought about before, but the level of research really is impressive. Do you think the Severity of Winterfell’s winter has something to do with a breaking of a pact between the Others and the First Men/ COTF?

  • @samuelleask1132
    @samuelleask1132 9 дней назад

    One of the most solid theories you’ve crafted

  • @gerardjagroo
    @gerardjagroo 17 дней назад

    Bran has a deeper connection to Winterfell than the other Starks from his climbing days and he knew secrets even Lord Eddard may have been ignorant of like the secret tunnel.
    George deliberately to draw an analogy about Winterfell in Bran being broken not dead.
    Therefore I think Bran would soon know about whatever magic is going on in Winterfell and how to fix it.

  • @ernaminten4227
    @ernaminten4227 Месяц назад +1

    Fascinating to see Winterfell as the heart of Winter. Some of the statues in the crypt are described as if they are Others (a Bran chapter, where Shaggydog attacks the maester), could they radiate the cold? As a side note, could the Karstarks (genetically speaking) take over the Starks role? And what are your thoughts on the original sword Ice (first Catlyn chapter in GOT)?

  • @jgr7487
    @jgr7487 Месяц назад

    Even if it's round, I do believe that the oldest tower is the oldest external structure of Winterfell. Storm's End is round & smooth, yet it's also belived to having been built by Bran the Builder.

  • @Cornetto616
    @Cornetto616 Месяц назад +6

    isn't the "secret Targaryen" also a Stark? does only paternal lineage count?

    • @LusiaEyre
      @LusiaEyre Месяц назад +2

      I think that's how it worked for most of history; a child belongs to their father's family. Of course, with blood magic this is funny, because why family names matter if it's the blood that's important? Jon and all his half-sibilings/cousins have similar mix of blood - one Stark born parent and one southron parent (and this comparison would work even if Jon was Ned's son) and yet, only Jon feels unwelcome in the crypts. The Tully blood doesn't seem to offend the ghostly ancestors. So it's either Targ blood in particular that offends them, or they really do recognise paternal lineage only (or maybe they just don't like bastards).

    • @zoemacpherson2701
      @zoemacpherson2701 Месяц назад +1

      That and how many other descendants from the main Stark Lords are disregarded by the blood magic. Like children from daughters married off, children of those who aren't the heir or even other Stark bastards. Maybe it's feeling like belonging with the family and the blood is important. Both Jon and Theon constantly felt not truly one of the Starks.

    • @antalonampreel861
      @antalonampreel861 Месяц назад +1

      @@zoemacpherson2701 That implies that if Jon ultimately has to choose, as Elrond chose to be Elf while his brother Elros chose to be human, then perhaps Jon choosing to be a Stark over a Targaryen is part of how everything is fixed?

  • @ezrafriesner8370
    @ezrafriesner8370 Месяц назад +1

    Here in less then an hour, I think that’s a new personal record

  • @hamodenashwan9731
    @hamodenashwan9731 27 дней назад +1

    I have a question that I haven't known the answer to since I read the novel. Who are the two people that Arya heard talking about the death of the King's Hand in the Red Keep catacombs after she was chasing cats in the first book?

    • @bighog1363
      @bighog1363 26 дней назад

      I think it’s meant to be Varys and Illyrio Mopatis :)

  • @theguyfromsaturn
    @theguyfromsaturn Месяц назад

    Just saying, you should not expect more snow north of Winterfell. It's a mistake that GRR Martin makes throughout the books too.... southern air is humid, cold air is fairly dry. Cold days will not be snowy in the north. Snow will be associated with warmer winter days, as it does in all cold countries. Snow is only tied to cold in warmer climates, where heat and humidity are common, and snow only comes when the cold wind comes south. Northern latitudes will have snow when the warmer (and humid) souther air comes north. So, you should never expect the snowfalls to be greater north of the wall than in Winterfell.

  • @DneilB007
    @DneilB007 Месяц назад

    I was very much thinking about the catacombs of Winterfell towards the end of the TV series.
    I was convinced that the seeds had been planted that the Walkers/Winter King (tv version) would resurrect the dead in the attack on Winterfell, and would raise the dead Starks in the catacombs-who would then defend Winterfell against the Winter King’s wraith army.
    Obviously, that was not in the scripts for the series; but I remain hopeful that it might be in the novels to come.

  • @SSquirrel1976
    @SSquirrel1976 Месяц назад +1

    If generations are roughly every 20 years, you are looking at 400 Stark families. Given how there were usually larger families in medieval times to make sure enough kids lived to adulthood, assume an average of 4 kids per generation. So 6 family memebrs per generation. There are at LEAST 2400 Stark corrpses buried in the crypts, so if return as undead defenders, that's a whole lot of undead.

    • @michal22011
      @michal22011 Месяц назад

      but only stark lords were buried in the crypts. Lyanna is an exception because Ned wanted to bury her there

    • @SSquirrel1976
      @SSquirrel1976 Месяц назад +2

      @ ​​⁠no all Starks were buried there, only the lords had statues made. Lyanna having a statue made of her broke that tradition. It’s said pretty directly in the video

  • @princesargon2198
    @princesargon2198 Месяц назад

    What if the only way to “revive” Winterfell is to preform another sacrifice in the gods woods like in the past by (possibly) Bran the Builder.
    The only person who would possibly know how to do this would be Bran with his powers to look into the past, ending with him choosing to sacrifice himself like (possibly) Bran The builder did re-establishing the pact .
    But that would still raise the question of what the pact is for? Why was a pact necessary, it feels like the catacombs may hold a deeper secret almost as if something was meant to be kept in. Also we know that the Starks use the catacombs to hide/keep important items not just family corpses (like the posible dragon eggs the Targeryians may or may not have given to the Starks)

  • @Forsworcen
    @Forsworcen 27 дней назад

    The fact that the Wall was made of ice and stone always struck me as an odd thematic choice for a supposed defense against the Others. We know, based off what we’ve seen so far, that the Others seem to have some kind of control over ice and snow and all of the opposing forces used against them and their undead forces are in some way linked to fire so having the primary defense be shaped with ice always seemed odd to me.
    Perhaps the key is Winterfell itself, the magics of Winterfell being one of the lynchpins for whatever magic the Wall has against the Others and having a Stark in Winterfell is a part of it. We know that blood magic is the most powerful, and the only one that continues to work after dragons have died, so perhaps Stark blood is literally incorporated into the spell itself, just the living blood rather than dead. Reminds me a bit of the city sized magic circle in the Sword of Truth series tbh…

  • @alexwhitney6372
    @alexwhitney6372 28 дней назад

    I think the long night was likely ended with a pact of peace between the Starks and the others, and that the Starks remaining in Winterfell was one of the terms of that pact. The others wanted to know that the people they made the pact with would remain in power in the North to uphold their side of the agreement.

  • @AarickBox
    @AarickBox 28 дней назад +1

    We assume that part of the Weirwood trees magic involves blood and the Crypts are at least partially under the Godswood. Are the Weirwood trees using the Starks that are buried in the crypts as "fuel". Maybe the fact that the last Starks to be buried there all died in the South took some power away from them.
    Also a thought I had. I don't have the book on me but I know we go into the crypts a few times. Is it ever mentioned how close to the entrance Rickard, Brandon and Lyanna are. Since the builder dug the crypts and started putting bodies in at the farthest point is it a sort of countdown the closer they get the entrance. A countdown to what I don't know, maybe the fight with the Others.

  • @karigirl3569
    @karigirl3569 23 дня назад

    Really love the analysis. It’s been nearly 15 years since I first read the series but you make it feel like yesterday.
    Btw, are you also Blackbelt Barrister ? I’m pretty good at recognizing voices as a musician. If you are, love that content as well. 😊

  • @72jakeryan
    @72jakeryan Месяц назад

    The werewood tree and the crypts buried under it. The werewood feeds on the stark bodies/essence just like in Elden ring with erdtree burial and the erdtree

  • @jeffcordova9633
    @jeffcordova9633 Месяц назад +6

    LORD ROBERT!!
    The realm owes you a debt that can never be repaid for your continued contributions to the realm & its people …

  • @maylabrown4584
    @maylabrown4584 21 день назад

    The Crypts have not been excavated so I believe that there is a Stark hiding away in them, keeping the seal or protection held tight, the Stark in question is of course Benjen.

  • @Alamo-cz5xc
    @Alamo-cz5xc Месяц назад

    Top notch video once again

  • @garmisra7841
    @garmisra7841 Месяц назад

    Probably what he'll do is arrange it so that a Stark gets back into Winterfell but Mel gets no news of it at the wall - and then she sacrifices Shireen anyway, causing more conflict within Stannis, while news of a Stark in Winterfell rallies the hill tribes with the wildlings and remaining Northerners. I hope it's Jon that gets back there first.

  • @24playman58
    @24playman58 Месяц назад

    i think that even if a stark returns to winterfell it will not return to normal or at least it will be very different, cause like bran said "it's not dead, just broken", but bran won't be able to walk ever again, + i do bealive that if jon returns to winterfell it wold help, he doesn't have the last name but he does have the blood, as far as i can tell the last name are more or less a easy guide to know who is who, but not an actual guide on who has the most power, house of the dragon showed peasents being able to ride dragons, all of them with out last names

  • @MrJosephdrummond
    @MrJosephdrummond 21 день назад

    I don't know where I read it, but I thought it was canon that it was the site where the wights were originally defeated and fled north. They were the winter and that's where they fell. Like storm's end.

  • @MariaVosa
    @MariaVosa Месяц назад

    This is why I'll never give up hope on another book from GRRM in the series, no matter how much people mock me for being Florian the Fool. As much as I loved the early seasons of the TV series, it could never hope to capture and do justice to the deep seeds planted by Martin. I need to know how this plays out. If he never finishes the books, I at least hope he leaves behind enough notes that broad outlines can be sketched - as Christopher Tolkien did for his father's literary legacy.

  • @JWlittleredd
    @JWlittleredd 29 дней назад +1

    Aren't the Karstarks in Winterfell? Are they too far removed from the main Stark line to count?

  • @Svensk7119
    @Svensk7119 Месяц назад

    Great video, as always, Robert, and I only have one problem with it, the same problem that I have with everyone who talks about Jon:
    You assume he is dead!
    True, things look very bleak as his viewpoint fades out, but we are dealing with the (probable) main character of the whole dang story, AND there is a range of magicks involved! Melissandre may not be at his side, but I think she is still at Castle Black. If the LoL can revive a dead man, than surely he can heal the guy who is actually (I think) Azor Ahai, even on a death bed. Yet everyone talks as if Jon is surely, certainly dead! Well, so was Simo Hayha, and so was Raul "Roy" (Tango Mike-Mike) Benavidez--Twice!
    Did I miss a press release where GRRM confirmed that Jon was toast, or perhaps iced? Or is everyone just going off of what the show did at the same point?

  • @jf_kein_k8590
    @jf_kein_k8590 Месяц назад

    Crazy (and very likely wrong) idea, the place where Winterfell was built upon was the original heart of winter.
    The Others were driven away and the Stark blood was used to seal most of the Hearts power.
    That's why are the Others coming south, maybe they have smth like greenseers as well and foresaw that the seal will be broken soon.
    So they amassed their army and are marching south to get their home back.

  • @timffkl
    @timffkl Месяц назад

    I wonder if this is an additional part of the Three Eyed Ravens plan with Bran, of guiding and keeping Bran away from Winterfell.

  • @andreamyrejohaug6156
    @andreamyrejohaug6156 Месяц назад +2

    Love the video!
    Jon has more First men blood than his "half-siblings".

    • @alexmckee4683
      @alexmckee4683 Месяц назад

      How do you work that out? Eddard and Lyanna were siblings. The Tully line is apparently Andal but it's not clear how completely so, certainly some intermarriage with various families - House Whent origins are murky. Targaryen dynasty is mostly Valyrian, some First Men via House Blackwood. I suppose you could argue that Jon has more First Men ancestry via House Blackwood but it's equally possible that Arya, Sansa, Bran and Rickon have First Men ancestry via the tangled and mysterious House Whent, their grandmother's house. Given the other houses tend to mix and the Targaryen's notably have not mixed much it's just as likely that Jon has negligible FM ancestry from the Targaryen side.

  • @HizzayLoves
    @HizzayLoves Месяц назад

    i was just thinking about this theory yesterday. how winter fell… thank you 🙏

  • @johnnye87
    @johnnye87 29 дней назад

    Early on I thought you were leading up to a point that you didn't end up making, so I'm curious to see what people think of it:
    If the significance of "Starks in Winterfell" is really the lords "sitting their thrones" in the crypts, rather than the people living above ground, then there's another notable absence that occurs around the same time as Bran and Rickon physically abandoning the castle. Ned died as ruling lord and his body has pointedly not been interred in the crypt, long after it rightfully ought to have been. Robb likewise hasn't been interred. What if that failure breached some condition of a pact with the Others, and Barbrey Dustin's petty grudge-holding has doomed mankind?

    • @johnnye87
      @johnnye87 29 дней назад +1

      (Some points against this: [1] the timing isn't as neat as Bran leaving the castle and immediately looking back and thinking it looks dead, and [2] if the Starks in Winterfell who are important are the dead ones, then there demonstrably still ARE Starks in Winterfell; the line isn't "all Starks must be in Winterfell".)

  • @hectech
    @hectech Месяц назад +1

    What if a Stark in Winterfell extends the godswood's magic to the whole realm. What if the Others and their cold magic won't/can't actually pass through Winterfell due to said extended magic.

  • @persun100
    @persun100 Месяц назад

    Ever since i caught up and started theorythinking, the wall and winterell feel connected, as is I believe their (or a specfici castle lkke the nightfort) purposes were swapped. The wall might have been built originally at winterfell, or another wall like mechanism for winter was created. Perhaps the nightfort story is actually about winterfell? And the starks liberated it or returned to wintefell to stop the long night