Whats INSIDE? Buchardt S400 + Measurements!
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- Whats inside the Buchardt S400? + Measurements!
Check out the S400's! bit.ly/2TzTVgG
My guide for setting up the S400s! bit.ly/3aFxU5L
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The midbass is a rebranded SB Acoustics - B17NBAC35.
The yellow Bennic cap is Electrolytic, I called it “microfarad,” which is the unit of measurement. Sorry for the mistake!
'Doesn't matter if you get absolutely every technical detail right. This new series where you take stuff apart for us to see what's inside is awesome.
Great video buddy! Nice to see inside the speaker. Apart from the inverted drivers and passive radiator this speaker has many characteristics of a classic British monitor. Thin side wall construction which normally shifts the cabinet resonance in to the 200Hz to 300Hz range which is associated with warmth. The famous BBC dip at around 2.5KHz and the slightly rolled off treble response. I would like to get these into take a look at.
I remember seeing Buchardt himself leaving a comment on one of your videos about that.
I recently found your channel been nice to get a fellow brits veiw on audio.
Hi Infn E, watch this space!
Thank you Chris
I would have a pair shipped to you Tarun :) Love your videos!
Hello Ron, thumbs up for you. Some tips from me: 1- when you only say: oh this is a resistor that is a coil that doesn't tell us anything. My advice, skip this part. Only if you know to say something about the quality of the components: Is it bad cheap stuff, middel of the road or high quality, that is interesting. 2- The measurements are great! As a tube amplifier owner, I know how great it is to know the impedance curve. Many loudspeaker manufacturers do not give this information. 3- Same for the frequency response. But be aware that manufacturers do not always like this deep research. So I hope you do not get rejected by manufacturers. I also enjoy the GR channel. Tip: If you learn Danny to act better and he is helping you with the tech part. Looks to me as a win win situation ;-)
Just repaired my good old Magnat Vector 77, replaced midtone driver, so yeah this type of content is at least for me fun.
Ya man. A "look inside" is a great idea Ron. Nicely done.
great video! Would love to see more of these since there aren't many videos that show the insides of speakers.
Nice to look back at this.
I like this review. Detailed, not emotional.
The "Microfarad cap" is an electrolytic capacitor.......... Microfarad is a measuring unit of capacitors.
I do upgrade these.
Hi. Just seen this review. Excellent. I have been considering the mk2 version. It seems they have virtually followed all your recommendations from this review and implemented them in the new version. Have you had chance to listen to the new model. Thanks from Alan in UK.
Really good for someone claiming he is not an engineer. Enjoyed this video and the “take apart” approach.
Very educational. Thanks Ron. Please continue doing what you're doing.
May be one day, you can do the Magnepan MMG. I heard nothing but great praise about this speaker.
Every video should come with the inside view. Nice video
Thanks a lot for such a open box video hope others do it too this is what I always wanted when I was a kid open up every gadget.
Now I can recommend my friends to buy S400 love manufactures who are open as long as it works
If u can get hold of Kii3 open box demo will be great. Thumbs up
You should do distortion limited SPL tests at 1 meter mic distance and set your distortion threshold to only 0.50%. This will seriously reveal some serious flaws in many speakers. Most speakers struggle to achieve 0.5% THD at any volume level. It’s a very revealing test. Also set your FR vertical scale to the standard 60dB. Also, do you have a rotary table for off-axis? This is the best method versus moving the mic. Also 0,15,30,45,60 are standard increment angles. Coloured polar maps are great. These speakers exhibit very good pattern control down to 1kHz. A non waveguide speaker would very quickly “beam” starting at 10kHz. This is something you could mention as an objective observation. Cheers!
Really good. It's interesting to see the components and this speaker has good ones.
This is really good stuff ron, ignore the complaints, and btw i for one dont mind straight up comparison reviews without a ton of measurements, zero fidelity has a loyal following just doing that
Another great video. Thanks Ron.
You are welcome!
exelent format dude, take it apart show it and give your data.. sweet channel.. audiophilia-engineering
Nice to see the internals. I would suggest, though, that you do your review before teardown or measurements...just to keep it as objective as possible (like you said).
i think the woofer made by SB Acoustic.. and on axis response is pretty rough but the bass is good and deep
Any chance of making a what's inside video with harbeth p3esr?
love this kind of videos
Hi Ron, nice look inside. I would recommend doing your vertical off-axis in both directions since it could have different results. I have seen it recommended to listen with the speaker midrange on axis with the listener. You do not have that measurement in your review. But overall Great job keep it up.
This is a great kind of video. Besides buy speakers i also like of diy concept... And i had big curious about how The best speakers are made, tnx for provides this só Nice vídeo.
Just for you know... Brasil also like your videos. Muito obrigado pelos teus vídeos, amigo.
Continue doing you. I find your posting very informative, and helpful.
If you ever have the chance, please do a review of the Tekton Design Double Impact. I would like to hear you thoughts on them.
Great video Ron. I own these speakers and love them. Very cool to see the internals. Anyone who gets turned off by what they perceive as low cost parts needs to look at the other speakers in the price range.
It would be good to provide a bit of context around some of the measurements though, since I believe a few may be misunderstood or misconstrued. Most people looking at measurements tend to compare to Stereophile and some of the parameters and scaling of the graphs could freak people out compared to what they’re used to seeing.
You should also post the graphs somewhere so they can be viewed larger and clearer than the video.
But love adding this portion to your reviews of speakers.
So true, the crossover components really have a diminishing returns on price vs performance and unless you go up to the real hi-end will you find anything that's better, but you will find plenty of 'bad' crossovers in this mid-range sector.
isn't it let down with any internal bracing. Many bookshelf speakers cost less than 1k have internal bracing
@@swllz might explain a bit of the stored energy Ron pointed out 🤷♂️
A good Texas morning to you, sir, how would you compare these to the ELAC 2.0 B 52, and what type of receiver would I need to drive these speakers? Keep up the great job the great work and you’re awesome.
Not even close, the buchardts are superior in every way. Don’t get me wrong, the the 2.0 B 52s are a nice bargain speaker but they are far away from what toy will get with the Buchardts.
@@Newrecordday2013 very awesome thank you so much Wood I need to change my center channel that matches the UB 52 if I were to go with the S 400s? Thank you so much for getting back with me.
@@rjzlwop3153 I don’t think buchardt is offering a matching center channel and isn’t focused on home theater. Having matching speakers in terms of response and tone is very important and often neglected. If you already have a complete system and enjoy home theater, I’d ask why you feel the need to change it up?!
@@Newrecordday2013 the person that I live with, will not allow me to put things on the wall to improve the echo sound, and because it’s an open concept a lot of the speakers that I use are very echoey. So I was just wondering what your suggestion would be?
I would really like you to do the same video and analysis with the Legacy Audio HD monitor.
Thanks for the measurements. Were they done outdoors (to remove room reflections)? Once again thanks.
As he said it was a gated measurement so it pretty much takes the room out if the equation, this is also why it doesn't go down lower in frequency, the smaller the gate in milliseconds the higher the cutoff will be. You can also do near field measurements for the lower end and then you can splice the two measurements together.
I open all my speakers i review on my channel Ron , I was the first to take polk audio lsim 703s apart ,an amazing sounding speaker once i opened up i seen why 😆 Great job!
Pop the hooooood!
@@Newrecordday2013 lol You got me !
Awesome! You should really looking into some kind of upgrade kit which you have done for other speakers. Replacing the crossover for those who can would be a sweet option
Buchardt has now full upgraded crossovers for the S400's to buy 650eurs on their site.
Will you take a look at the A500 and A700?
Vertical off axis measurement is from what point, centre of the baffle or from one of the drivers? Enjoyed the tear down, now looking forward to the review, and hopefully someday a review of the soon to be released active version.
Thanks Tim, The vertical off access was measured from the reference point which is right in between the woofer and the tweet.
I do like this type of presentation very much. It would be nice to have a better view of the graphs so the scales and unites can be seen on a cell phone. Maybe you can put link to pdf of plots.
isn't it let down with any internal bracing. Many bookshelf speakers cost less than 1k have internal bracing
Great content.
Thanks!
A measurement that might be worthwhile is measuring on the vertical axis below the center. I know some speakers measure better when they are sitting higher than listening level. This would also further show the phase relationship between drivers. Great video still, Ron. I dig the content.
Great video, nice to see inside of the speaker and measurements, every speaker review should have show inside of a speaker to be a complete review. Other many speaker reviewers are shamelessly making bluffs about a speaker without any measurement or showing inside, just shamelessly attract viewers to collect money from youtube.
Stunning speakers... I want some
We don't care about response curves, we DO care about INTER-MODULATION DISTORTION! , how a bass guitar modulates a female singer through one single small cone that has to go bass to 2khz, and , Thanks for taking it apart for revealing the insides, thumbs up
That woofer is one of the best off the shelf woofers you can buy, revel use exactly the same woofer in the m106 and I believe Wilson use/used them as well at some point. And Mad's confirmed this when i was talking to him. Never went with these in the end But the M106 i had the pleasure of owning and they put out some serious sound for a compact monitor, to the point if you had your eyes shut you could believe they where floor standers. For the price, the revel embarrassed nearly all in there class ATC, PMC, NEAT, FOCAL not a patch. And i suspect these would do the same.
You mean SB17NBAC35 woofer is the best $70 can buy?
www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-6-7-woofers-sb-acoustics/sb-acoustics-sb17nbac35-4-6-black-aluminum-cone-woofer-4-ohm/
Which speaker would you buy BUCHARDS400 or Ultra SVS
Gotta say, lookin inside and at the bass driver construction kinda scared the 💩 outta me (lack of cabinet bracing & thin walls mostly) but still, after hearing the 400s for bout 2 weeks after borrowing from a friend... it really does sound quite amazing at it’s price point🔝🎶 (Lyngdorfs Room Perfect was turned off initially but also used to enjoy 😉 ). So, this tare down an graphs are very interesting too - Especially the spectral. Just a thought tho...possibly take measurements outside where room interactions cannot exist, even though you’ve taken steps to theoretically remove it. But just sayin. Awesome & interesting vid. review again bro an thanks much 🤙🏽 #MusicIsTheBest🍻
Hey man! Love the video!
I don't know the level of your technical knowledge, but if you want an easy way into electronics, I recommend The Engineering Mindset here on RUclips. A lot of great and accessible material! For me, as a very green but enthusiastic tinkerer this has been a very helpful resource.
Looking forward to the next vid!
Keep it up, Ron! How about the Triangle BRO-3, the Elac Reference?
Sure. I can make that happen.
@@Newrecordday2013 Great, love the tear down!
As a pa engineer I think that's a big 5 dB dip between 2k and 5k, crossover point is not good
Cool, Great job.. 👍.
Is there some cancellation at the crossover point?
I dig this direction for content.
Would appreciate close up detail of drivers to aid in design choices, driver sourcing etc.
Okay, I’ll work on that.
First thought when I saw the back of the woofer was SbAcoustics... I use those drivers, very well built for the cost (could be made by someone else or so could SbAcoustics but most likely the sane()
@@attainableaudio4533
Yeah, I thought the same thing.
@@FOH3663 thats popular driver in low cost car audio installations
@@adelkharisov
? I don't understand
Unsure if you're asking me but yes, pretty sure it's an SB17NBAC from SB Acoustics
I think those drivers deserve a better cabinet.
What about DIY upgrades to the S400? I feel like we really weren’t given a chance to know the differences between the S400 vs sig edition. I think I would have gone with the sig edition if given the chance (they were sold out when I got my S400)
I know this is 1 yr down the road from when you posted but Buchardt now has upgraded crossovers for the 400's available their site for 650eurs ( not cheap )
If I were in the market for speakers this would be the kind of thing that would be most valuable in evaluating a speakers choice. Great job.
Ron, love it. I forgive you for the pink drink thing.
Did you make these tests before/after your disassembly?
Before disassembly
Nice!!
Great job doing the measurements. I recommend adding also a measurement of the in room response. The suckout in the crossover region might put people off who don't know a lot about measurements.
Great idea
This design piqued my curiosity regarding the passive unit at the back. From more of a pro standpoint, I'm not a big fan of this type of design anyway without being able to do a TEF-based alignment in the listening space to see the effects of placement on the signal, especially with respect to phase, but I'm curious about the potential for cone cry from that passive radiator when it is being played at higher volumes with significant low-frequency content. I wonder if that has been looked at. It has always been a somewhat-intentional feature of cheaper, high-resonance drivers (i.e., guitar amps, electronic organs) but it has also been a characteristic downside even for more expensive oblong-shaped cones, and the more bass expected from them, the worse it typically is. I'm not sure that making that shape a passive radiator would necessarily change that, but I don't know.
Love the radiator concept but the v shape wave line put me off.
Nice speaker parts and measurements. My only winge would be the lack of bracing in the cabinet. Easy to see why the efficiency is fairly low with that many crossover parts. Thanks for the tour. I'd enjoy more of these your confidence will improve with practice 👍
@Jeremy Thanks for the info. That does make sense.
That crossover is ripe for customization, high-end clarity caps, and wells or Mundorf resistors. Soldier the wires and get No Rez for the walls...killer!
Nice review! fyi - Capacitors are measured in micro-farads, not a big deal.
Yeah! Had a brain fart!
You should listen to „Pink RabbitS“ by The National.
It’s nice too see measurements of the speaker, but with the greatest respect to you and other reviewers, those measurements bear no resemblance to real world in room situations. Most people will be sitting 5-10 feet away from the speakers in varying sized rooms. It would be far more valuable to see some measurements in real world situations, like against a wall, away from a wall, firing down the room v firing across the room, with all measurement taken at the listening position. This would give a much better idea of a speakers frequency, timing and phase response AT THE LISTENING POSITIION in a given scenario, because in the end, that’s all that matters. Also be nice to then add some room treatment and measure again. Just a few ideas to set you apart from the crowd!
I clicked Subscribe for these kind of vids... :-)
How thick is the enclosure material. And what type of material is it?
Some sort of plastic coated mdf maybe?
And what is the crossover frequency?
And one thing I don't like is the loss in the 2khz region.
One more thing. Why do you say access and not axis?
Suggestion,
When you use the tap measure, put the tape between the camera and the speaker, and use a tape with metric on it. That way we can see the measurement, and the folks out there that are still struggling to land (with out crashing) something on another body in the Solar System can feel included.
Blank gaze in metric...
Woofer looks similar to those from SB Acoustics. The crossover components are cheap AF.
I love tear downs. Thanks for the great content.
They are also made by SB Acoustics. Our warehouse in Denmark is actually in the same facility to where the SB drivers are developed, so we work fairly close with SB. I would however disagree with the crossover parts, its nearly impossible to find a speaker in this price range that use all air inductors and caps of this quality. Of course you can find better and more expensive parts, this is where our Signature edition comes in :)
Honestly they are using air core inductors and film foil caps. That's better than many manufactures even at this price point.
@@madsbuchardt7845 so are these drivers the same as SB or are the parameters different? Love the honesty 👍
no bracing :( its just a standard MDF box :( bummer.. this is exactly why building DIY speakers is far more now common.. Manufactures fluff their products up so much :(
...and still get a better sound than most DIY builds and mods on A/B listening. Amazing! Professional engineering actually matters, it turns out.
@@ReflectedMiles Yeah right.. i call bs..
@@JasonLeaman and yet you probably would never say the same about a DIY cell phone, PC or laptop, high-rise buildings you drive past or work in, or a bazillion other things you depend on. There's a reason that DIY builders, the few who dare to bring their speakers into an old-fashioned hi-fi shop that will do A/B, usually leave upset. I have been in a position to watch them in years past. It was rarely even an equivalent performance, let alone a better one.
@@ReflectedMiles the diy guys don't want to embarrass the companies. Seen and heard some high end speakers in a ab against diy some win some don't. My valid point is, this speaker in video is not worth the money, and can be made for half the cost. It's all marketing these days. Lipstick on the pig !!
@@JasonLeaman depends of a taste and expectations.
s400 sounds very nice but i am listening right now them and B&W 805s and i can say that electronic music sounds better on s400 but jazz on 805s.
bw is crisp clear and vocsls are just there at the front.
s 400 are more back .
Oh, and next time tell us how many windings there are on each of the coils!
You started it......
Its a pitty that here in Brazil we have none of the best speaker brands.... if you import on of these... the price is huuuuuge...
A bit less than 3/4" ??standard 18mm then.
which we can see more for other speaker who claimed frame .. like Focal k serious
Good first tear-down video. Close ups of the drivers, especially the woofer, would be nice.
Yes, agree
Hi Ron, I suggest that you do the review first before the measurements en teardown. Why? I think we can learn more AND its a challenge to compare with what you hear is goin to be translated in the measurements. Taking measurements before listening review will influence your experience im sure. And yes i like you to focus on build quality because thats what you are paying for. A amplifier build with "schrott" and the manufacturer asks crazy prices are still out there, we all seen it. And you also learned that the equipments added sound is like only 10-20% of your sound u will get in your room so its VERY difficult to give a sound quality rating to stuff. Room and Speakers are the main bulk of the sound reproduced what u gonna get anyways (all within a certain budget respected to sound quality u get ofcourse)
Where is our acoustic friend? i also would like to see more of his work in your channel, that was really something we audio/music lovers need to learn a thing or two.
Ron, Thanks and keep it up!
He has his own channel now, ruclips.net/channel/UCIJHwsTJyrH4YznoJxZmJHQ
@@Newrecordday2013 I meant Norman Varney. GR Research went to commercial for my liking :) he wants to sell upgrade kits imo which is fine ofcourse but not my tea. Ohh Ron u have to start studying a bit of electronics bud lol I really like what direction u going and more in depth knowledge of electronics would be very helpful. Thanks.
But, will it blend?
Why are the measurements from 200 Hz-20 000 Hz and not from 20Hz?
In a gated response, you are only able to capture data at 1 meter at 4ms. Bass takes longer to propagate.
I don't like those bullets connectors, they could have done better in my opinion that is very cheap!
Include Metric, please. Also, those drivers aparently are not exclusive to BUchardt audio, please include model numbers and manufacturer.
Loudspeakers are grossly overpriced for what they contain... Look at what you get inside an 800$ washing machine...
That's a good point, but only if you prefer listening to washing machines rather than music.
It's clear that the woofer is made by SB Acoustics.
It may be an off-the-shelf driver or custom-made for Buchardt.
Ron, it's really nice to see these more technical speaker reviews with disassembly and CLIO measurements.
IMO your videos are FAR more informative than Zero Fidelity's, which are OPINION based with ZERO measurements or sound clips, and only contain talk, talk and more talk.
Thanks for stepping up your game and I hope you continue to make many more videos like this one!
Thanks for watching and commenting Stephen!
Can you say "axis"?
No, I struggle with it actually. Thanks for asking.
The way you described oxx axis measurements doesnt sound right. Moving the mic a distance at a time will put both the mic AND the speaker off each of their own axes. Can you show your techniques, please? From the measurements shown I would definitely not buy.
Wouldn't it be better to do the listening test before learning the strengths and weaknesses of the engineering, so that your mind is not influenced by what you found?
I’ve listened to them for months before taking them apart. Thanks
@@Newrecordday2013 OK, not how it seemed on the video.
Sandcast resistors generally do not have a great sound but are used for economy purposes.
Pmc twenty5 series, please
More.
Thanks for this effort. I feel all speaker reviews should include a disassembly. I am an avid speaker builder and long time speaker fanatic, and enjoyed this. Feel free to go deeper into your description of the individual crossover components and there quality level. Also driver materials were only mentioned on the passive. Cone, dome, frame, surround materials and diameters matter. Otherwise I think you are fulfilling a need in the hobby that has long been overlooked. And a final comment. Be afraid of the fashion police. The hat and T shirt need a serious upgrade. They do not integrate well with the background you have chosen or the level at which you are presenting. Nice job. Keep it up!
Thanks for watching!
Mildly entertaining but I am really more concerned with how they perform. Not really looking for objective data but more subjective opinion with description. Its really important to know how a product makes you feel about it. Then you can tear into the technical side of why it makes you feel that way.
Max 300€ Material Plus MDF. For one.
The lack of bracing will be Audible, as someone who’s made many loudspeakers.
Hey Ron, for the majority of us that live in the developed world, any chance you can use metric measurements when doing this!
You can't accurately measure frequency in a domestic room ....
Depends on what your measuring.
That FR looks terrible, very different from the manufacturer published measurements. Very weird!
Go back and look at the scale used in the plots. The plot is showing a fairly tight frequency response from 200 to 20k Hz.
@@davecook8378 My bad, each line represents 2.5dB. Still, that broadband dip between 2-6khz is 3dB down in a very sensitive area and it's gonna be audible!
@@300ZCorradoVR6Z Buchardt's own measurements don't show a dip there. Nor do the measuremnts "napilopez" did:
www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/buchardt-s400-on-and-off-axis-measurements-and-the-benefits-of-manufacturer-data.10075/#post-273894
I'll have to check my own in-room measurements.
Correction: napilopez does show a slight dip in the on-axis FR, but it seems to get filled in off-axis.
@@300ZCorradoVR6Z yeah if you saw the raw measurements with as little smoothing on the majority of loudspeakers you'd be surprised.
Actually here's a place to see "real" measurements of some higher end loudspeakers, maybe an eye opener for some people
www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=77&Itemid=153
I actually don't see the point. I've got better things to do with my time. If it sounds nice, why fiddle with it? And if you make changes, to "improve" it, resale value takes a bit hit.
Feedback: the disassembly is interesting and useful. The numbers not so much. Just a flaw in my personality. Keep after it, guy!
Filter parts are very cheap, as is often the case. Due to wanting to make a big profit when producing large series. Shame really.
Well Ron, I don’t care anything about the measurement of equipment or speakers. Digital equipment will probably always have better measurements than a turntable and I prefer my ancient turntable, and I know you really like your turntable too. All I care about is how a product sounds.
Sand cast resisters, ZERO internal bracing, and maybe a dollar's worth of polly fill........ NOT what I would expect from speakers that cost almost $2000.
@Jeremy For $2000 you can make some pretty spectacular bookshelf speakers using Morel drivers and good quality cross over components. Drivers would run about $550, crossover $300-$400 depending on complexity and cabinets another $100 if using MDF and premium 5 way binding posts like these. So we're looking at just around $1k for the pair before paint and misc hardware.
@Jeremy That's true, but you suggested to Kris he make the speakers which to me, means DIY. Once you do throw in shop time for building / testing / tweaking it offsets the value vs an off the shelf speaker like the S400.
Jeremy Agreed. You have to build margins into your pricing in order to keep the lights on and staff paid.
@Jeremy I guess it's just an example of "Don't look behind the curtain", and everything will be fine. I've listened to the S400's, and they DO sound good, but the cabinet was way more resonant than I expected. Now I can see why. Even my Elac UB5's and Kef Q150;s have SOME internal bracing to reduce ringing, at a quarter of the cost of the S400's. I'm just amazed that the internals are so underwhelming. Most of the crossover components look fine, the poly caps and inductors look to be appropriate for a speaker in this price range. But Sand Cast Resisters? They cost pennies, and it wouldn't have effected the bottom line much at all to have put in something a bit higher quality. They get the job done, but it's a bit of a letdown to see them in a speaker at this price point.
Real audiophiles have an obsessive-compulsive mental problem.