Hi Aleksandra, you need to measure them with a micrometer. A very good quality vernier caliper will give you a reasonable idea of the thickness, but a micrometer will be the most accurate. 😉👍
Good Job Gordon. Life is great at 2 to 8 clearance. I have roughly the same combination of copper shims. The 0.029 is in good condition, but both 0.011 shims have seen better days. I cannot find copper shims, they must be obsolete. But, I can make shims using gasket material, cereal box or poster paper. Its just a matter of measuring the thickness and creating a suitable combination. Now for some art and craft with a pair of scissors and hole punch. TTFN/CDC
So is it OK if the axles bump in the middle? Or is that what you are putting the shims in to prevent? My tractor axles bump right now. I'm not sure I'd I need to shim them apart or just get my end play and move on. Had to put a new ring and pinion in the tractor
Hi it’s best if they don’t touch in the middle. The way a differential works means they will need to rotate at different speeds at times, so they must be able to operate completely independently. If they are touching they would foul each other and that would lead to a whole host of problems. The shims are to pull them slightly apart. Equally you don’t want them too far apart because that would reduce the preload on the bearings. Hope this helps. 😉👍
The axles are actually always pushing together as the weight on the tapered bearings is trying to make the bearing inner slide inwards, and the shrink collar is to stop that bearing sliding inwards on the axle. So the whole weight of the tractor is actually forcing the shafts into one another. The shims are to set the preload on the bearings so that you aren't clamping the bearing rollers too tightly when you tighten everything up. I've no idea where this idea they will get damaged if they touched came from, they are hardened steel tips, and have oil splashing them constantly. Think how long it takes for a piston in and engine to wear, they only have oil to lube them against the bores, and they're only made of aluminum. Think about it, if you take the wheel off and pull the hub outwards, you are making the tapered bearings pull into it's outer and seating it. If there was a big gap between the half shafts, there would be nothing stopping the shaft going inwards and making the bearing loose.
Do you remember me messaging you asking for your advice as I was struggling to get rid off excessive end float well I stripped down the back end again put new timken bearings on the differential and put new timkens on the outer shaft I put in new oil seal and I put back in just beneath the bearing housing a small tin plate which I think slows down the oil going to the seal either way that has done the trick got perfect end float on both shafts can't believe what difference they have made.
Hi Jon, I certainly do remember, yours had a tin plate behind the bearings. Again, never seen this before but Ferguson experimented on the production line! 😉 I’m glad you sorted it out. As much as I hate having to redo things, I find it always goes much better when you do. Well done and thanks for letting me know. I’m going to keep my eye open for this on future Fergies. 👍😉
@@WaterhouseForde Mine hasn't a serial number stamped on the I'd plate she's registered March 1952 apparently the dealer in Dorset never stamped numbers on dunno why so I can't tell you the number maybe someone else has found the same tin plate. I don't like doing jobs twice but I've found you do learn and you generally do a much better job second time round obviously not being a mechanic it's the only way you do learn. Keep up with the videos your an inspiration to us all
Ye that’s a shame. Ours doesn’t even have an ID plate which is a real shame. I’m guessing it was removed at some point and not put back on. So sadly I have no idea which one we have. It was sold as a 1953 model which is probably about right as the casting dates on the engine and gearbox are mid to late 1952. Thanks for your kind words, and glad you got your axle sorted. How much more do you have to do?
Thank you Mick, glad you find these helpful. No, no gasket behind the shim/s. I found myself wondering the same at the time, but there is nothing shown in the manual. Just the shims. Good luck with your project. 👍😉
Love watching your videos you have helped me a great deal but I've got a small problem I'd like you advice with please. I've just changed my rear axle bearings, seals, shrink coller and fitted a sure seal for a extra measure as my T20 is 1952 which only has one outer seal in place I got about 2mm play in the bearing housing in both sides but I can't seem to stop any end float I've used all my shims and taken every shim out it didn't make any difference to the end float
Hi Jon, glad to hear you are getting value out of the videos. I'm scratching my head a bit over your problem. It sounds to me like something is either not seated properly or one or possibly even both of the axles are not the correct ones. When you dismantled, what was the state of the bearings, both the inner and the outer? If these were badly damaged with no obvious reason as to why (e.g. lots of crud in the diff) that could indicate that the problem pre-dates you dismantling it. I believe this end float is essentially a measure of the pre-loading on the bearing, especially the inners. If it was previously not set correctly the bearings would have taken a pounding, assuming the tractor was working hard. One more question, and apologies if it's a stupid one. Have you tightened the trumpet housing nuts and the hub flange nuts before measuring? These should all be tightened to the specified torque, or very close to it, before measuring. I hope this helps, but I fear you may have a bigger problem from your description. Feel free to email me directly with more info if you want - I can ask around as well to see if anyone else has any ideas. I hope you work it out! Best wishes Gordon
@@WaterhouseForde evening Gordon many thanks for your reply when I dismantled the axle and half shafts the bearings was original timken I'm a bit fussy seeing as the outer seals was shot I brought new timken bearings for the differential and half shafts to be honest they probably would have been fine there was now damage or signs off wear but I thought whilst I'm in there why not do it all also put new seals in new gaskets on the trumpet housing done the works lol thinking about it the only thing I've done differently is when I first took them apart underneath the outer race on the halfshaft was a tin plate about 1mm thick I've never seen it before or since I was told it was fitted to slow the oil down before it gets to the outer seal l was wondering about removing the bearings and hub and making up a shim to sit against the oil seal at the base off the shaft to take up the 2mm slop everything else is measured and put back as it was when I took it apart its a puzzle for sure. Keep doing the videos your a inspiration to us all
Ah - well that would be your problem then! I've never seen or heard of that, although I can see the sense in it. They would have the effect of pushing the half shafts closer together. You will probably find your half shafts have been shortened ever so slightly to allow for these. Knowing Ferguson it may even have been an experiment to see if it helped to limit oil seepage from the seal, as you suggest. But 1mm each side makes your 2mm float that you're measuring. Do you happen to have them still? It would be ideal to be able to measure their actual thickness so you know how thick to make the replacements. If not then maybe go with 1mm for now, but if it were me I would try to get some shim material about 0.5mm thick as well. You may find you need to go thicker again even if only on one side to get to where you need to be. Good luck, I hope you manage to get it just right, although don't stress if you are a little bit off. These old fergies are tough as old boots! 😉
Hi, is it obbligatory to take all those measures? my tractor probably will stay almost always stop. Do you advise me to use cardboard gaskets or will be the same using ''silicon gasket''? thanks, regards
Hi Giovanni, the end float is important to prevent damage to the side shafts, the bearings and the gears in the differential. If the tractor will not be used then I guess it doesn’t matter too much. But if it will be driven then I would take some time to set the clearance. If it will not be used a lot and won’t be used for any form of hard work then you may get away with just estimating it. Also consider the scenario where the tractor may be sold or moved onto another owner in some way. It would be better to ensure it is in a workable condition. On the gaskets I personally don’t like using any form of silicon products for creating a seal. Making these paper gaskets is not difficult and the gasket paper is not expensive so I would much rather go this route. I hope this helps. 😉👍
Well Gordon, just to let you know the size you are dealing with, a hair is 2 thou and your thumbnail is 20 thou. Try measuring them for a bit of fun if you like.
@@WaterhouseForde You may remember I had to stop work early when I was 43, lower back wore out. But I worked in a factory on a precision external grinder for 16 years, often using dial gauges daily, so know how difficult it can be to read small measurements.
Master, I have a question? how do you measure the thickness of that sheet of coasters
Hi Aleksandra, you need to measure them with a micrometer. A very good quality vernier caliper will give you a reasonable idea of the thickness, but a micrometer will be the most accurate. 😉👍
Well done. So much patience required.
Hi James, thank you and yes you definitely need patience. It’s one of those jobs where you can’t be in a hurry! 👍🏻
Good Job Gordon. Life is great at 2 to 8 clearance. I have roughly the same combination of copper shims. The 0.029 is in good condition, but both 0.011 shims have seen better days. I cannot find copper shims, they must be obsolete. But, I can make shims using gasket material, cereal box or poster paper. Its just a matter of measuring the thickness and creating a suitable combination. Now for some art and craft with a pair of scissors and hole punch. TTFN/CDC
Ha ha yes indeed getting creative is part of the fun! 😉👍
So is it OK if the axles bump in the middle? Or is that what you are putting the shims in to prevent? My tractor axles bump right now. I'm not sure I'd I need to shim them apart or just get my end play and move on. Had to put a new ring and pinion in the tractor
Hi it’s best if they don’t touch in the middle. The way a differential works means they will need to rotate at different speeds at times, so they must be able to operate completely independently. If they are touching they would foul each other and that would lead to a whole host of problems. The shims are to pull them slightly apart. Equally you don’t want them too far apart because that would reduce the preload on the bearings. Hope this helps. 😉👍
The axles are actually always pushing together as the weight on the tapered bearings is trying to make the bearing inner slide inwards, and the shrink collar is to stop that bearing sliding inwards on the axle. So the whole weight of the tractor is actually forcing the shafts into one another. The shims are to set the preload on the bearings so that you aren't clamping the bearing rollers too tightly when you tighten everything up. I've no idea where this idea they will get damaged if they touched came from, they are hardened steel tips, and have oil splashing them constantly. Think how long it takes for a piston in and engine to wear, they only have oil to lube them against the bores, and they're only made of aluminum. Think about it, if you take the wheel off and pull the hub outwards, you are making the tapered bearings pull into it's outer and seating it. If there was a big gap between the half shafts, there would be nothing stopping the shaft going inwards and making the bearing loose.
Do you remember me messaging you asking for your advice as I was struggling to get rid off excessive end float well I stripped down the back end again put new timken bearings on the differential and put new timkens on the outer shaft I put in new oil seal and I put back in just beneath the bearing housing a small tin plate which I think slows down the oil going to the seal either way that has done the trick got perfect end float on both shafts can't believe what difference they have made.
Hi Jon, I certainly do remember, yours had a tin plate behind the bearings. Again, never seen this before but Ferguson experimented on the production line! 😉 I’m glad you sorted it out. As much as I hate having to redo things, I find it always goes much better when you do. Well done and thanks for letting me know. I’m going to keep my eye open for this on future Fergies. 👍😉
@@WaterhouseForde
Mine hasn't a serial number stamped on the I'd plate she's registered March 1952 apparently the dealer in Dorset never stamped numbers on dunno why so I can't tell you the number maybe someone else has found the same tin plate. I don't like doing jobs twice but I've found you do learn and you generally do a much better job second time round obviously not being a mechanic it's the only way you do learn. Keep up with the videos your an inspiration to us all
Ye that’s a shame. Ours doesn’t even have an ID plate which is a real shame. I’m guessing it was removed at some point and not put back on. So sadly I have no idea which one we have. It was sold as a 1953 model which is probably about right as the casting dates on the engine and gearbox are mid to late 1952. Thanks for your kind words, and glad you got your axle sorted. How much more do you have to do?
Great videos many thanks. Is there no gasket between the shim and the axle casing?
Thank you Mick, glad you find these helpful. No, no gasket behind the shim/s. I found myself wondering the same at the time, but there is nothing shown in the manual. Just the shims. Good luck with your project. 👍😉
Love watching your videos you have helped me a great deal but I've got a small problem I'd like you advice with please. I've just changed my rear axle bearings, seals, shrink coller and fitted a sure seal for a extra measure as my T20 is 1952 which only has one outer seal in place I got about 2mm play in the bearing housing in both sides but I can't seem to stop any end float I've used all my shims and taken every shim out it didn't make any difference to the end float
Hi Jon, glad to hear you are getting value out of the videos. I'm scratching my head a bit over your problem. It sounds to me like something is either not seated properly or one or possibly even both of the axles are not the correct ones. When you dismantled, what was the state of the bearings, both the inner and the outer? If these were badly damaged with no obvious reason as to why (e.g. lots of crud in the diff) that could indicate that the problem pre-dates you dismantling it. I believe this end float is essentially a measure of the pre-loading on the bearing, especially the inners. If it was previously not set correctly the bearings would have taken a pounding, assuming the tractor was working hard. One more question, and apologies if it's a stupid one. Have you tightened the trumpet housing nuts and the hub flange nuts before measuring? These should all be tightened to the specified torque, or very close to it, before measuring. I hope this helps, but I fear you may have a bigger problem from your description. Feel free to email me directly with more info if you want - I can ask around as well to see if anyone else has any ideas. I hope you work it out!
Best wishes
Gordon
@@WaterhouseForde evening Gordon many thanks for your reply when I dismantled the axle and half shafts the bearings was original timken I'm a bit fussy seeing as the outer seals was shot I brought new timken bearings for the differential and half shafts to be honest they probably would have been fine there was now damage or signs off wear but I thought whilst I'm in there why not do it all also put new seals in new gaskets on the trumpet housing done the works lol thinking about it the only thing I've done differently is when I first took them apart underneath the outer race on the halfshaft was a tin plate about 1mm thick I've never seen it before or since I was told it was fitted to slow the oil down before it gets to the outer seal l was wondering about removing the bearings and hub and making up a shim to sit against the oil seal at the base off the shaft to take up the 2mm slop everything else is measured and put back as it was when I took it apart its a puzzle for sure. Keep doing the videos your a inspiration to us all
@@WaterhouseForde mean no not now lol
Ah - well that would be your problem then! I've never seen or heard of that, although I can see the sense in it. They would have the effect of pushing the half shafts closer together. You will probably find your half shafts have been shortened ever so slightly to allow for these. Knowing Ferguson it may even have been an experiment to see if it helped to limit oil seepage from the seal, as you suggest. But 1mm each side makes your 2mm float that you're measuring. Do you happen to have them still? It would be ideal to be able to measure their actual thickness so you know how thick to make the replacements. If not then maybe go with 1mm for now, but if it were me I would try to get some shim material about 0.5mm thick as well. You may find you need to go thicker again even if only on one side to get to where you need to be. Good luck, I hope you manage to get it just right, although don't stress if you are a little bit off. These old fergies are tough as old boots! 😉
Ha ha - no right now I am editing the next video! 😂
Hi, is it obbligatory to take all those measures? my tractor probably will stay almost always stop. Do you advise me to use cardboard gaskets or will be the same using ''silicon gasket''? thanks, regards
Hi Giovanni, the end float is important to prevent damage to the side shafts, the bearings and the gears in the differential. If the tractor will not be used then I guess it doesn’t matter too much. But if it will be driven then I would take some time to set the clearance. If it will not be used a lot and won’t be used for any form of hard work then you may get away with just estimating it. Also consider the scenario where the tractor may be sold or moved onto another owner in some way. It would be better to ensure it is in a workable condition. On the gaskets I personally don’t like using any form of silicon products for creating a seal. Making these paper gaskets is not difficult and the gasket paper is not expensive so I would much rather go this route. I hope this helps. 😉👍
@@WaterhouseForde Thank you very much.
Well Gordon, just to let you know the size you are dealing with, a hair is 2 thou and your thumbnail is 20 thou. Try measuring them for a bit of fun if you like.
Hi Malcolm, we really are dealing with minute measures on this. Sometimes I’m not sure it’s even moved! 🤣
@@WaterhouseForde You may remember I had to stop work early when I was 43, lower back wore out. But I worked in a factory on a precision external grinder for 16 years, often using dial gauges daily, so know how difficult it can be to read small measurements.