Michael's 2016 Minimoog Reissue Repairs/Mods (by synthpro)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Hey Guys,
In this video I take you along the adventure of making repairs to a 2016 Minimoog Reissue that was having troubles. Found an assortment of little issues as well as did some things to help the tone just a bit.
Here is technical info that may be helpful:
For those needing replacement power supply, the Mean Well Part # is P25A14E. (Note: plug will have to be modified with a female XLR 4 pin)
Pinout of XLR 4 pin:
Pin 1= -15V
Pin 2= +15V
Pin 3= Ground
Pin4= +5V
This Mean Well supply is already discontinued but as long as you get a supply with these current specs, it can be modified to work:
+5V= 2.5A
+15V= 500mA
-15V= 300mA
Screws for the interface boards, Power supply, and keyboard circuit board: #4-40 1/4"
These are the screws without lock washers so I recommend installing some or using some medium strength thread lock.
Thanks for watching!
Sincerely,
Jareth
Just got a 2022 reissue and the build quality is excellent !
Glad to hear it.
Awesome video. I can't believe they didn't put in the deadzone mod!
Thanks for the tip about running the reissues volume on 8.
Thank you for sharing your work, it was very interesting to see inside the re-issue. I just got a 2022, nice to have the tip on the overload lamp.
if they already have issues in a new minimoog proves how the newer ones QC and build quality lacks
Incredibly informative and entertaining! Thank you for this! The original is really shining there, sonically, compared to the reissue.
@9:27 I can hear that the re-issue has the same "issue" as many modern analog synths: it's missing some high-end harmonics. Also, for a seven year old synth, it's surprising that it already has some issues like dirty switches and pots. My 1975 Minimoog has no such issues. Of course, Bob Moog used sealed Allen Bradley industrial potentiometers back in the day and not crappy open Alpha brand. You'd think that Moog would have used the modern Honeywell equivalent sealed conductive plastic pots on such an expensive and iconic instrument re-issue? Anyway, thanks for a very interesting video Jareth!
Fantastic job, Jareth. That hour and sixteen minutes just flew by. I think Michael will be pleased.
Thanks for showing the innards of a contemporary mini, I was expecting smd components like some of the currrent vintage synth reissues, I’m glad they went trough board, that certainly is an added value to these.
Mind-boggling that the pitch bend dead zone was not added to the new design. Great work Jareth!
The pitch-bend wheel (and mod wheel) are implemented differently on the 2022 re-issues. The pitch wheel is now sprung (no detent) and has good dead zone performance. The footage switches also work fine.
What is even more crazy is this minimoog was sent back to Moog twice before I ended up with it.
My 2017 unit has no issues.@@synthpro
@@user-we2bk6qb3n happy to hear it. Hopefully it will stay that way for you.
Haven't watched the whole thing, but I will say I purchased a spare power supply from Moog awhile ago, "just in case." But my 2016 Reissue is studio only. I was the original owner of a circa 1975 Minimoog (SN# 6400's) way back when, the 2016 is total Deja Vu for me. One could argue that the differences heard here are similar to differences between units during original manufacture.
Edit: Okay, watched to completion, that was absolutely fascinating, thank you! I have been innately playing my Reissue with a max oscillator volume at 8 (except maybe with triangle and shark tooth waveforms), now I know why! I keep my Reissue in my studio, under a dust cover when not in use, so hopefully it will outlast me. But if it ever needs work, I now know where to send it. Thanks Jareth!
Hi Jareth, yet another really enjoyable watch. I'm really confused by the octave/footage difference you identified - I have a 2022 Reissue Minimoog and if I recreate the patch settings from your 1972 Minimoog I don't have the footage problem, so maybe Moog ironed that out for this reissue, given the LHC has been modified to have the spring loaded pitch wheel. However, I was trying out FM synthesis by copying the settings in your "How to get FM synthesis on a Minimoog" video, and weirdly I have to set Osc 3 up an octave to 16' to match the sounds you were getting. Strange! I do wonder if Moog have improved the "jenkiness" in the build for the 2022 reissue; it was a shame to see a few corners that were cut, as identified in your video.
Thank you for this, it was really informative. I think that the reissue has a good sound, not really directly comparable to the original, but still nice. What surprised me was the build quality and individual faults of the the newer instrument... it shouldn't be like that.
Thanks Jareth x
Hi Jareth. Have you been through a 2022 reissue, yet? I’m wondering whether they did better in 2022, than they did in 2016 … 😏. Great vids! Cheers! 🙏🏼
Pretty shoddy workmanship for Moog
I have to agree.
reminds me I better get the battery out of my Korg M3. Interesting video. I suppose the engineers had a reason for most of the quirks. ☮☯
btw the extra gain in the oscillators is the same on the Subharmonicon, and maybe others, you have to back them all off a little for it to be clean. I think it might be intentional.
Fantastic video. Learned a ton. Thank you!
old one sounds magic
I was wondering what they look like on the inside - I have one from 2017.
Mine isn't as bad as the one you have on the bench.
My 2017 Model D mod wheel cracked. The firmware for some of them wasn't right with the key-on command to emulate vintage tuning. And I had to recalibrate the tuning of Osc 1. And the rubber surround on the power supply cable into the back on the synth has deteriorated.
Great video and insight always intresting to see your work.
I could defo hear the tuning difference, the vintage has that nice beating where the newer sound more precise hence the phase cancellation im guessing .
Funny you mentioned those original TIS 97 trannies, i thought it was just snake oil but i csm defo hear the difference to how say a BC549C would saturate vs a 3904 .
Ive noticed in alot of modern moogs they use the 3046 array transistors in the ladder filter circuits.
Thank Adam. Oh yes, amazing how different transistors can change the sound. You are right, I see lots of clones using the transistor array chip design like found in every moog design except modular, mini, sonic six. Studio Electronics use it as well as others but Behringer actually did it correctly as well with the D.
@@synthpro Yes, I suppose using the array takes the pain out of transitor matching to an extent and maybe more cost effective . However im guessing this would probably have an effect on the headroom available throughout the ladder circuit and the discrete VCA for that matter.
I'm no expert just trying to logically make sense of what I've experimented with .
@@AdamTheAd-vanc3d I think it was more about saving room on the circuit board honestly.
Interesting with the oscillator footage issue. I have a 2016 Walnut Edition, which was probably among the last produced, and while the pitch mod has the same unstable pitch behavior, the oscillator footage is correct. I double checked against your demo around 1:13:00.
Great video. In my mixes, I can’t tell the difference between my 4 minimoogs. By themselves, my vintage minimoogs sound better to me. Whatever that means.
Great vid! Do you remember resistor values to modify the VCO gain?
@@DonSolaris it's not really the VCO gain that you are changing but the gain between the VCF and then inside the VCA itself. That is the one critical flaw with the reissue is they changed the gain at input of VCF from the oscillator mix....doesn't give the same results. This is why volume mix of each oscillator has to be set at a lower setting to reduce unwanted distortion.
Value resistors needed are 4.7K ohm, 27 ohm X2, 1k ohm
@@synthpro Thank you!
Gosh I didn't know vintage Minimoogs had integrated circuitry in them ! is that original ?
You are a professional, but Moog synths from around 2010 are "amateur built" by professionals. Unfortunately. We can hope that the new owners step up a few steps. Keep up, man!
I seriously doubt the quality of Moogs are going to get better after being bought by Inmusic.
Is the 32' issue present on the 2022 model? they did update the LHC section
I wanted a Model D for decades and finally had an opportunity to get one of these 2016 reissues for a really decent price. I've never played an original Model D but I've owned a Sonic VI, Rogue, Micro, Multi, Poly, etc and yeah, I found this 2016 Moog really disappointing and didn't bother buying it. I also don't know how to describe it other than just kind of bland. Not sure if that's just aged components adding character to vintage synths or what but the reissue definitely bored me. It also already had really noisy knobs and switches.
How did fixing the pitch wheel solve the incorrect 32’ setting on Osc 1?
All 3 oscillators had the same footage problem. The digitally generated keyboard CV was different from original but by adding dead zone, it requires changing/adding summing voltages into VCOs which was enough with the combination of pitch wheel offset as well as the additional sum to allow proper calibration.
Great mods and intonation tips etc .
Although i wouldn’t swap my vintage one for it , the reissue sure gained by your work , very interesting , thanks 👍🌞
I am considering purchasing a 22 minimoog. After watching this video, I have an idea. Would it be better to modify a built-in power supply for better sound? Because for recording, the power supply is crucial and has a significant impact on the sound. But I am very worried about whether there will be the same problem in 2022.
really interesting video as usual. I could not make any sense of how the footage got corrected after you added the centre detent mod. Did you figure it out?
Thanks! The footage was corrected because in the process of adding dead zone, it requires a added summing circuit to each VCO to compensate for their changes to LHC pitch.
@@synthprointeresting. So if the dead zone wasn't added, how could the wrong footage be fixed? In other words, what did they do wrong in the factory?
@@vlzmusik the keyboard voltage was wrong from the microprocessor. Footage voltages were correct as well as other summing. What's bad is this unit had been sent back to Moog twice and they never fixed the problem.
it's great that you managed to fix it then!
So, in reality, that Vintage Reissue Minimoog isn't actually a Vintage Reissue at all, it's actually a modern equivalent, or modern take on a Minimoog, if it was a Vintage Reissue they would have reproduced the original analog keyboard system.
It's a minimoog clone with a hybrid keyboard system basically. These are still using the sample/hold keyboard circuit with glide circuit but the CV supplied is digitally generated from the microprocessor.
Haven’t watched the whole video yet, but I don’t think it is a good idea to compare any two filters by trying to match the emphasis setting numerically on the dial. Emphasis feedback is a touchy parameter electrically and I don’t expect it to match that well even between different units.
Moreover, Gordon Reid’s original review of the 2016 re-issue noted that the emphasis behavior was set a bit differently by Moog. It is likely this is due largely to the different available potentiometer tapers. (The emphasis knob has an unusual resistance profile.) Reid also observed that with slightly differing numerical settings of the emphasis, the reissue filter sound was much closer to the vintage sound.
I make note of all the factors later in the video. I took many readings and literally dissected the filter to check transistor matching, component specs, etc and made note of my findings.
Finished the video today. Thanks a lot for sharing a detailed look at the re-issue internals and observed differences. I have a 2022 re-issue and plan to dive into some studies and mods myself. (Already modified my left-hand controller for improved afterpressure and modulation.)
I have a question: can you comment on how the rocker switches are mechanically supported? Are they just soldered to the PCB? The reason I ask is that on my Mini, the filter tracking switches are a little misaligned vertically, thus rubbing on the edges of the front-panel openings. The switches do not operate very smoothly, so I’d like to improve the alignment.
Thanks again for your great video and observations.
@@scottwillingham8349 thanks, glad you enjoyed it. Yeah, they got the resistor value wrong for the aftertouch on the 2022 models I have heard. It's a very similar circuit I added to a memorymoog a few years back. I'm honestly surprised moog didn't build it with a inverting circuit for both positive and negative aftertouch response. I would have also added a internal buss for aftertouch routing as well instead of having to externally patch everything.
Rocker switches are just held in place by solder joints on the 2016 mini.
Nice! I'm looking forward to getting a Moog Opes 3 fix. Maybe you can help me 🎹
Is it possible to put an internal power supply in the minimoog 2016 and 2020, instead of that awful external power supply)
I'm sure it could be done.
@@synthpro It's extremely worth it, 5k for a synth without QC and then loss of warranty with a new linear power supply.. Wouldn't it be cheaper to build your mini from scratch without the funny Ashville boys🤣
@@user-wg6mt3se1n personally I'm more impressed with the Behringer D as far as cloned minimoogs. They are using matched transistor packages and for the quality of pots and rotary switches they are about the same quality, (behringer may even be a bit better).
really glad i avoided the hype on these reissues, $5k half baked liabilities.
My name is Benn Bulb and they are stealing our jobs, DC Cola is to blame for Moog's bankruptcy... or something like that. what will the new numark mini be like. mini in quality maxi in price. but we've had that before.
I don't see anyone stealing jobs. I have watched moog go down the toilet by the choices they have made as a company. Moog is a fine example when you don't listen to what people want and use the legacy and brand to carry a company. Moog used to be known for their performance instruments with features unlike other brands.
Here are some examples:
Moog had the desirable moogerfoogers that had all the inputs/outputs for CV control. They dropped them and made minifoogers.
They started making oddball eurorack equipment with goofy names that felt more like hipster toys than professional instruments.
They became way too focused on legacy to the point the advertising felt cheesy.
They didn't learn from the vintage moog about releasing products before bugs are worked out of software and circuit designs, (Moog one comes to mind)
They don't listen to outside design ideas, (believe me, I tried to reach out to them as well as others).
When you look at other companies like Behringer etc, they are listening to what people want and building products based off the feedback. It's hard to compete when you have a company making modular system 55s in eurorack while moog is still releasing the same short production run reissues.
If moog had built these eurorack modular system 15s, 35s, 55s, etc with really good quality control then I'm sure they would have had greater survival through 2023 but they didn't and gave room for competitors to build it instead.
It's all about listening to the demands of the clients and being proactive in development.
Also, most all the copyrights are no longer legally protected for these vintage synths so when you build new products without securing copyrights then it's just free range for every company.
@@synthpro Totally agree.. that was meant more as a homage to Benn Jordan.. he claims various things..
Ultimately it was Donald who raised import tariffs and damaged the windy business model.
There were warnings about this a few years ago, it doesn't matter to me, I don't need lousy quality at ridiculous prices.