Stop Making Your PVP Healer Into A Tank
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- A lot of healing builds for PVP that you find online focus on stacking resistances and not much else. Here's why that's both ineffective and unnecessary.
Watch my recent Sorcerer healer video to get an idea of how I build my healers, or check my build dump over at ESO-Hub:
eso-hub.com/en...
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I think you make some valid points. Back when I used to play in ball groups (back in 2019, so quite a while ago), our healers were always geared towards full support rather than tankiness, typically using sets like Olorime (pre SPC hitting 12 man) and Transmutation. In organized group play, it's true that the focus tends to be on dumping ultimates in the middle, which isn't typically where healers are positioned. But if you have a healer who is the "weak link" it's one of the worst roles to lose so having them gear up tanky might be the easiest solotion. It's worth noting that the stats lost in going for a defensive sets don't really affect your healing much. The loss of healing is typically due to sustain loss as your actions per minute (APM) decrease, rather than the decrease in healing potency of the hits themselves. Attributes into health is a different story.
When it comes to smaller-scale fights, it's pretty much the same, though in this case you're more likely to be focused and I will typically opt for some surviveability like an Ice staff and vampire stage 3.
As for Battlegrounds, running a two-support setup in a premade can work, but in solo queue, having a defensive setup like sword and board plus one selfish defensive set is pretty much necessary, even in higher MMR. Healers are common, but often only one or two teams have one, so the chance of being the objective of that BG is very likely. And you're the objective I have been in BGs where I took more damage than the entire BG combined.
That being said, I've always thought that the line between a troll tank and a healer is very thin. Many players play healers like troll tanks with cross heals rather than "tanky" healers. I see this in BGs all the time when a healer decides to camp an objective and just self-heal instead of following and playing with their team. I think you're right that the majority of guides (even my own) tailor healers to be tanky, perhaps more than they need to be. While I still believe it's the right choice for BGs, especially in solo queue, going full tank in Cyrodiil is unnecessary for a healer and may even result in less survivability than a medium setup, where your stamina sustain is much better.
I think you're right that the idea of going tanky comes from the wrong mindset, and I think the bad rep healers get in PvP is because most healer players tend to play troll tank builds with cross heals instead healers that are surviveable, and if healers tended to play builds more optimized around being supports and then adjusted their surviveability from there on. They would be more effective players.
Yeah, like I said in the video, I do think there are situations in which you need a more tanky set-up. I played a full healing build on Ravenwatch a month ago with a group that had 0 crosshealing, did not stack and played outnumbered. It was rather miserable and unsuited for my kind of build, but in that case I would rather just play a DD with crosshealing than any type of healing spec. This was an exception though, as I've played with more groups in Cyrodiil than I can keep track of, and in nearly all of them I could play in a full healing set-up without suffering any untimely deaths.
There is still a place for tanky set-ups, especially in Battlegrounds, but in my view the approach should be to start as a full healer and then add tankiness as the need arises, rather than starting as a tank and then maybe seeing if you can drop some of those resistances along the way. Yet the latter seems to be the standard approach in most places, and I've seen it lead to bad habits where players are slow, have trouble sustaining and do not have enough of an incentive to move away from danger. So in the end to me it is more about a switch in mentality so that healers aren't tempted to fall into troll tank territory.
I must disagree though on tanky set-ups affecting healing stats. Or rather, it probably depends on what you find significant. When I was putting together a small-scale healing build for Ravenwatch a few months ago, I was going down a very tanky road, but I just noticed my heals had less potency. So instead, I kept it tanky (which in my case meant 3 Heavy pieces + Vamp 3), but retained some of my usual build aspects like dual wield frontbar instead of ice staff, Ritual mundus instead of a sustain one, and Heartland Conqueror rather than Pariah. I could notice the difference in finding it much easier to keep the group alive being the sole full healer. Perhaps *just* a tank set would not affect ticks that much, but the building philosophy that tends to come with it does, in my experience.
I can also see in some other build videos on RUclips (I won't name names but if you look at other recent Sorc heal builds you will probably find them) that their HoTs sometimes tick for less than 50% of what my own do, which I find significant enough. The lack of mobility/sustain is a compound issue arising from their build philosophy which, funnily enough, hurts their survivability in addition to their healing output.
Experienced healers can still make the conscious choice to build tanky when they know they need it, but it is difficult to ween less experienced ones off of this habit when they know nothing else, which I felt the need to make this video.
Thanks for your input. After running only nb heal for a while I just ran sorc heal for the first time in our group and it´s amazing how much impact especially the negates bring. Really allows to beat people that would otherwise survive. Thanks for sharing your knowledge, appreciate it.
Running in small 4-5 man groups as the sole healer I always run tanky. if im in a group with another healer I dont run my tanky setup theres no need when cross healing is so powerful.
When you're the sole healer, do the DDs run Echoing Vigor?
With my groups I've gone through phases where in a 4-5 man group people insisted on running green vigor as it was supposed to make the group more survivable. When we then switched to yellow vigor it was a night and day difference even in such a tiny group.
@@Degonyte not in my main group they have their own heals me being on my NB healer is there to stack on top of there’s I personally want them to focus on doing what they would normally do if they didn’t have a healer for us it works better that way but I have healed for groups that do run echoing vigor to stack them and usually those groups more coordinated ulti dumping and what not so that cool but I prefer my main group with my friends things seem to flow better for us when they run selfish and I’m running tanky but I’ll tell you my heals still hit hard af could be slightly better if I wasn’t as tank but it’s enough to get the job done
This only really applies to larger groups, small group 3-4 usually if im not on a tanky setup I get focused and killed easily. My burst heal still hits for about 14k which is enough to save people from dying.
Thank you for this video I've felt abit lost in regards to PVP healing, as a warden healer player, I switched to a typical PVP heal build and ugh its mind numbing and the heals are incredibly weak. Sure I don't die as much but everybody else around me does ! My old 'pvp' build prior focused on heals and well, it was fantastic! Everybody benefitted.
I had so many discussions about this topic. And always this useless slogan. Even though I had 3 times as much healing in the log and even though I died much less often. The phrase remained law and the guild's healer builds were tank builds (except mine...) 😆
I claim that this is because rather weak "letargic" players were pushed to the healer position. If you're not constantly on the move as a healer, you'll die really quickly. And you don't heal effectively either. Players who hardly move at all must be tanky to survive... Therefore, "healers have to be tanky"
🤪🤭
Very insightful, thank you for the video! Do you think the Major/minor Defile uptimes could change now that the debuffs also affect shield strength?
Thanks. I forgot to check in-game to look at the Defile changes since the usual websites still haven't updated their info but you're right. However, I don't think this will make any difference to the uptimes, because those result from the fact that there are much fewer sources of Minor and Major Defile, let alone those that are viable in Cyrodiil. Major Breach alone can be acquired through Deep Fissure and Elemental Susceptibility, two of the most common skills in present-day Cyrodiil.
I also don't think shields are useful in group play beyond big ones such as Barrier and the Arca shield, so there's not more incentive to run Minor/Major Defile against groups than there was before.
My tanky warden healer in bg hits 1 million+ in heals. I’ve never taken it to cyrodil or imperial city though as of yet.
I disagree. Especially in bgs, healers need to be tanky while healing in the middle of 24 players. Sure you can drop resistances and get more healing/utilities done in cyrodil, but not in bgs.
BG solo queues and specific smallscale compositions are indeed an exception, but those are but a small portion of the PVP healing content and shouldn't be taken as the standard.
@@Degonyte i will kill your healer in 1 rotation if they arent a tank. You can wear heavy armor and still run damage glyphs so your heals are still strong. Heavy attacks with resto give maj mending and will be enough sustain.
@@Degonyteonly in a ball group would i ever spec for crit heals and even then youre still running 40k hp
@@yumuddah8735 okcool
@@yumuddah8735 if you spec into crit healing in a ballgroup you're doing it wrong
i approve this message
(sponsored by 10k resistances gamer)
Thank you, just before your vid, was "ballgrouping", as someone said in your comments in 4-man group in Cyro and after that 12-man group in Cyro. Switched to 7 medium after month of playing on 7 heavy... My god, it's a real heaven on Earth. I'm playing no-proc no cp, so I became more mobile, huge heals which really change battlefield, and also really good sustain, because when i'm getting "focused" it's really my poor place management and i just believed too much in myself, so i just roll dodge the hell out of them, because i'm in medium armor it's very cheap.
So the questuon is, what's your opinion on Heartland's Conq + Eternal vigor (i don't know how to make 7 medium, so i just go for 1 heavy chest (EV)+ 1 light Earthgore helm), rest is medium. Can you pls advise me with traits for medium armor? is it better to use divines on this setup, or impen for crit res? That's all for ravenwatch :3
Sorry, I'm retard. Just found your Sorc build for Ravenwatch. Got all answers i seek :D
Thank you for your content and healthy vision on Healer formula. I agree Medium is the way!
@@gudhlef Hahah np. You described pretty much what I run. 7x medium would not be great anyway as you'd miss out on the Undaunted passive, so 5x medium 1x light 1x heavy is the best combo for RW, also since it gives you access to Shuffle, which is Major Evasion and snare removal in 1 skill. Really needed since there are no Snow Treaders on Ravenwatch.
In terms of traits, I tend to switch around a bit between Impen, Divines and Well-Fitted, but I'm currently liking Well-Fitted a lot due to it reducing pressure on the stam pool.
well i am sure glad i came across your account. been looking for a good pvp healer to get some ideas from and follow. thank you for the work. question if i may, i mostly do small scale (battlegrounds), what would you suggest in your second bar? sword and board is an option but i find i like to always be light attacking and end up outside the fray and cant. frost staff is another option but i never know if i should take the block passive out or not (i dont block much in pvp which is my own problem i know). duel weild gives nice passives too. thoughts? i know you run double resto in cyro and the like but what about battleground set up?
In Cyro smallscale, or in any Cyro content really, I always use Dual Wield + Resto Staff. If you want something tanky and ranged then go with ice staff. I personally wouldn't use the magicka block passive unless you really notice your stam sustain needing a boost.
I'm not really sure what/how I would build in Battlegrounds. Probably either Dual Wield + Resto as usual or Ice Staff + Resto. That said I don't play them much.
@@Degonyte thank you good sir!
@@Degonyte what would you chant on that duel wield? i have a necro that i use healing on one and ult gen on another being that they are beasts of it. but what do you default to? i saw nirn but im not sure how/why that translates to a healers benefit.
@@unclewiggily3007 Nirnhoned + Powered because the combination of weapon damage and healing done results in the biggest healing ticks. Weapon damage is very relevant for healing since most heals scale off that stat (in addition to some other stats). Ult gen could work but I often find myself hogging ult anyway, and if I play on Gray Host there will be plenty ult gen in the group most of the time through sets like Pillager's and Colovian Warlord.
@@Degonyte okay cheers. i didnt associate nirn with weapon dam that translates to heals for some reason. just saw the number on the weapon increase as THIS weapon now does more dam. that makes total sense.
i mean defile is gonna be WAY more common this patch though with the disease procs right
The numbers I mentioned are from this patch. In the run I did since this video Minor Defile was a little more common. Major Defile was still exceedingly rare (0.55% uptime vs. over 50% on Major Breach).
Yeah. I have base 25k resistance and 34k health. 2k crit resistance . My burst heals arent strong but to be honest, I still totally agree about "you cant heal when you are dead". Many times as soon as I am seen by enemy party, and they spot me doing regen, standing on my ritual, I definitely get targeted asap because I am way too obvious as a healer. You know in PVP they rarely save their healer, and fixated on doing the keel for themselves, I get that. Nobody rescues healers intentionally almost. Burst heal arent always just the measure of healer, it's all the buffs we give, synergies, major and minor buffs, periodic cleanse (no plaguebreak hasnt killed anybody I cleanse). Thankfully my build made enemy dds quit on bullying me, and then I rez the entire party ( I dont run in groups, I run with random people in Cyro, I just join whichever group of people need healing. ). If I dont wear what I wear having proper armor, totally, I can easily get executed in 5 buttons. I get the point of the video, but to me it isnt just burst heal to be a healer. Yes ok what if I burst heal 15k and end up dead after being hit by two buttons. My DD stealth bomber run all divines, 4800 unbuffed spell damage, 50% crit, I die in like 3 hits to one person LOL. That is an example of how tough it can be, add to it if you are a glowing healer that obviously provide buffs to parties nearby, that is like a an obvious floating red balloon waiting to get popped. My healer build is 25k resist but reaches 33 when buffed. I ressurect fallen allies in like less than 2 seconds. Even if I get bullied a lot by a dd, it will take them soo long to drop me that I would have ressurrected 3 allies after popping immovable potion. My heals are more HOTs, ressurecting truly truly quickly, giving speedboosts, extra resistances (+minor resolve, extra 4600 resistance, extra 1300 critical resistance), 15% all resource recovery, and many more ground HOTs. To me those are more important than just giving one round of burst heal and then just dying. Minor berserk, extra spell damage from Rally or PA, minor heroism and as much buff as I can equip that I can give to my party while Im alive. Standing on my own HOTs and popping immovable, I am annoyingly very hard to take down, I would have ressurected half to a dozen of people already by the time an am near death.
If I brought my PVE healer build that gives me maximum burst heal, I'd definitely just fall from those invisible bomb blades due to my 24k health and very minimal resistance. Again I dont go in groups, I just prefer running solo and helping whoever little group need healing. Cross healing definitely work in groups and maybe as you said in the video, you can get away just wearing less tanky set because your entire party coordinate which direction to go, and so you can benefit from cross healing as a healer. I play for the victory of my pact, so I help zerg, random pugs, etc, I much prefer it than just healing ball groups farming AP etc. In Cyro, it helps to have very tanky healer taking care of seige team taking over a keep. otherwise the siege operators will just get shot one by one.
I usually make my PVP toons dps/heals. Especially stamplars. You can get away with running mostly medium armor and damage boost your heals also
Meanwhile Argonain Shaman to son:
"You cannota heal when you not a doctahh."
Let me start off by saying that many of the points you make, i agree with, but only in preferable scenarios are they consistantly true, which many players who dont run in comp groups or ball groups will be mislead by. This is because many of the times the points you make work specifically when you have a coordinated/communicating team whos running team supporting builds with more than one healer (or everyone damage dealers running cross heals) all while staying on crown, while this is completely possible, it is much less common outside of comp groups / ball groups / natural leader type crowns which i feel was not stressed enough and would be the deciding factor between this video helping vs hurting newer/inexperienced players.
Now ill go over some more specific examples which, although ive played since launch of both pc and console, the bulk of my experience is in Cyrodiil as it better provides what i want from ESO PvP versus battlegrounds.
-"You cant heal when youre dead"
*This is an important concept because at its base, its true. You will not always be in the perfect scenarios, with your entire team reacting perfectly. The idea that you cant build a tanky healer with strong HoTs and burst heals is just wrong. Unfortunately im not the absolute best healer as i prefer more niche builds maximizing fun vs efficiency so i dont have a current patch build to share but there are many examples in the community you can find. Ive known many people over the last decade who maintained huge heals AND remarkable solo survivability. This isnt so they can "be parcing dumbies", its so theyre a pillar of support that can focus on keeping the team alive vs having to be coddled when push REALLY comes to shove. When people die, you lose more and more crossheals, snowballing. When people die around a tanky healer, their viability doesnt drop, its just harder to keep people alive like it is for any other healer.
*Crossheals are a great "layer of defense" of but to replace the basics with a buffer, thats unreliable at best and misleading to newer players at worst. I think its important you mention that these concepts only work in comp groups and ball groups which many groups dont fall into either catagory. Many players just like to make builds and play with a group in cyrodiil. This distinction would have been incredibly useful to uninformed players thinking they can run a build that relies on coordinated team play in a "green bars LFG" gathered Cyrodiil group.
-Prioritizing Utility/Sustain sets and hoping crossheals will pick up the slack. This works in perfect conditions like being in a group that coordinates movement/gear selection/abilities/and stays on crown.
*This doesnt work when youre being bursted down by a competent DPS burst type builds that can drop people with low resitances, sure you heal a lot but that doesnt help much when youre only getting hit over a few seconds. This doesnt work when you ARE forcused too hard by nightblades / snipers. This doesnt help when you DO take damage and fall into execute range. This doesnt help when youre pulled with a DK chain away from your group and get bursted down becauze you NEED your group to stay alive with their crossheals. Mitigation is always active from running full heavy armor.
-"Healers Dont Get Focused"
*Your test was to compare your damage taken vs the non healers in your group over different engagements? Obviosuly thr people that literally make up the fight its self will take more damage total vs the people not directly making up the fight its self. That doest make sense.
*Theres a difference between being focused the entire fight vs being temporarily focused to kill you and stop you from healing (which your test wouldnt reflect). This wouldnt even be difficult to achieve vs a competent group whose also coordinating since youre encouraging crossheals over high mitigation. Your crossheals wont be enough to completely nagate all the burst damage if the team decides they feel like killing you. (I join pug groups somewhat often as i like talking to different people and the concept of calling out to focus healers isnt uncommon). An exception would be when fighting ball groups as they prioritize movement / self sustain / ulti dumps and fight/play differently to many other types of groups.
-"When i run with a group, i always insist everyone runs Echoing Vigor". Putting aside how annoying this is in regular groups since it seems like much of the information you share is meant for comp groups with explicitly stating that but insteading sharing this as how you think healer should build for the "majority of content" even though comp groups do not make up the bulk of groups as in my notable experience players do not autimatically assume they need to run a certain set/slot a certain ability/alter their overall build to be allowed into a group unless theyre told its a comp or ball group.
There are probably things i missed or forgot the point of my comment really isnt just to critisize. Its primarily so that you can see how some of your advice would be more hurtful to players who dont have that experience to understand the different types of groups/environments theyll find themselves in while grouping in Cyrodiil. Also to show the clear downsides of relying on crossheals to stay alive vs mitigation in said various envinorments.
I hope this this helps anyone new and provides another point of view to the video creator. I apologize for the 10 years used to read this essay.
Thank you for dedicating quite a bit of time for responding to this video.
I won't go into detail about every point as I'll still be here tomorrow. My response is still a bit long but I think it's important to try and explain this the best I possibly can.
From your response, I would like to address the idea that building more like a pure healer (so less tanky) only works in specific/ideal situations. I find this to simply not be true.
I've mained a healer since Update 35 (so that would've been August 2022), and since that time I have played a healer for over 20 different groups and guilds that cover pretty much the entire spectrum of what's available in ESO in terms of group composition. So this includes not just ballgroups/smallscales, but also casual guilds who straight-up did not do group compositions, zerg guilds, pugs, semi-organized groups, etc. It also includes both Gray Host/Blackreach guilds and Ravenwatch (no proc) guilds, as well as guilds on both PC/EU and PC/NA.
During that time, I have never used a tanky build. The instances where this ended up biting me in the ass were precisely 2: one time was on NA, where I struggled with survivability because of increased ping and playing with sub-500 CP and bad gear on a CP-active campaign. The other time I played in a group consisting of solely Sorcs with 0 cross-heals who did not stack and fought against groups 4 times their size. In all other cases, I fared just fine. I also healed alongside people who did have stuff like vamp 3, Pariah and single target burst heals in their build, and they consistently did less healing than me while also dying more rapidly/often.
And just to reiterate, especially in the beginning I healed quite literally any group that would have me, ranging from casual to hardcore. This includes very low tier guilds such as Tamriel Fluffy Bunnies and Decimation Elite, as well as random lfg groups. So I am confident in saying that it's the reverse: you don't need to build tanky except for a small minority of cases.
This is not all some weird flex; I just play this game for fun and I don't think I'm particularly talented. However, this is how I came to the thesis of my video: there is a fundamental flaw in the way people build healers in this game. So my idea is that you should start out as 'aggressive' as possible with maxing out your healing potency, and then start adding extra sustain and tankiness when you notice you are struggling.
Many healers start the other way around: they start out as tanky as possible, sometimes even wearing 2 full tank sets with 0 group utility, and then the idea is they strip away some of that tankiness when they improve, except they never do. They instead learn to depend on the crutches in their set-up and never improve beyond that point.
I take issue with this for two reasons. First, I have been in the position multiple times where healers tried out for one of the more hardcore groups I'm in and they always end up dying a lot because they're not allowed to wear a tank set and they have to depend on a skill they have never properly learned (positioning). Second, as said, I do think that the situations where a tanky set-up is warranted constitute a vast minority of the scenarios you encounter in Cyrodiil PVP (Battlegrounds are a different story).
You can compare it to playing a game on easy difficulty vs. hard difficulty. If you start out by challenging yourself, sure you will eat dust at first, but you will quickly learn to improve. If you start playing with training wheels on, you get used to those training wheels and never really improve beyond that point. This is why the good healers in Cyrodiil at least on my server can probably be counted on one hand.
To conclude this, I also disagree with the notion that it's somehow 'misleading' to encourage healers to drop the tank sets. Apart from the fact they won't need them except in specific scenarios that are less common than they are made out to be, I am sharing this info because this is pretty much the exact advice I got from my experienced healer friends way back in Update 35. It reinvigorated my PVP activities in the game, as just investing a little time into learning how to heal properly now allows me to play with pretty much any guild I want to and make videos about healing content.
There is nothing wrong with adding more self-defensive measures if you keep getting dunked on as a healer, but this should be a measure you take when you're experiencing difficulties, and not the default way to build a healer. That was the idea behind my video and I still fully stand behind it.
And to just add one more thing, about the 'healers getting focused' thing. What I said wasn't meant as a proper 'test', but rather as an observation that the healers I've personally played with who touted 'getting focused' as an excuse as to why they died and should build more tanky have all had poor positioning. This is reflected by their damage taken in logs. Of course I realize that one well-timed burst by a ganker or w/e might not be reflected in that statistic, but what I was saying is that their high amount of damage taken confirms that they were consistently standing in the wrong place. So the point was not to compare my damage taken to that of non-healers, but rather that healers who complain about getting focused without fail take similar or more damage than their DD counterparts. This has been my experience anyway.
Can healers get focused? Absolutely. Does it happen often? No, not really. Not with success, anyway. And even if you do get properly focused, there are plenty of things you can do about it before you start sacrificing your build's utility to counter it. Usually having high mobility and knowing how to kite under pressure help more than just stacking more resistances and praying the burst won't kill you.
"they are targeting me!" so true - in most case scenarios organised ball groups don't interact with each other and prefer to farm random noobs... so those random players almost never target healer in such organized group anyway.
I love my 50k+ health, 2500+ mag recovery, warden healer. It's a beast of a build with huge burst healing and lots of healing of time. I regularly hit over 3m+ healing in BGs.
So what you are saying is I can play a necro healer in pvp without spamming 50+ points into hp?
the outfit goes hard
Sadly I never use S&B on this character...
@@Degonyte well gotta make your healer more tanky then 🧐🧐
I have tank healer and work fine in batrlegrounds
No cp in bg and less people. He’s speaking on those who enter cyrodiil because you can run into 12-40 enemies at a time which can strain your resources
May even apply to no cp cyrodiil too
@@wr842 This I would like to experience, I have 4 months playing and I have never participated in a large-scale combat
@@LeoGaming77777I found my first big fight and had to guess what was happening and what to cast because the lag gave me a 3 second delay on combat lol.
So be ready for lag.
Idk man. I think you should make a video talking about the exceptions you mentioned concerning BGs. As far as I’m concerned my Templar does extremely well in BGs with pariah and almalexias. Tanky as hell as can spam 7-8k non crit breaths on top of everything else.
I don't like playing BGs but we'll see.
real
My tank warden healer destroys cyro, I’m always healing people through ulti dumps and I got 60k health
dope
Best healers I know that play in ballgroups are tanky AF and most of them are wardens with minimum 40-45k health. There is no way you can touch these guys in 1v1, let alone when they are playing in the ballgroup. ESO has shity combat system, wheras you can max out sustain, tankiness and speed and then kill your opponents with synchronised ult drops.
High-end ballgroups typically don't even run Warden healers, and if they did, those Wardens would get outperformed by Sorcs and NBs.
@@Degonyte Yet, they beat almost all BGs on PC/EU during their prime time. Their warden healer was amazing.
@@mjlee8013 An amazing Warden healer would do more healing on another class.
Ive tryed many build as healer in pvp, cyro and bgs. I found as healer if u have more than 26k res and 35k vit my stats are wasted. Most of the time in Cyro your frontliner will get hit first and if you manage to just stack few stick heals and no going isolated even Gank will avoid you since they are looking for damaged or isolated target. And for ballgroup in general as he said, they focus larger clump of player, many time my team survived a ball group just because i didnt ran with them and ult at the perfect time. Some build are good as full tank and vit. I love to bg with friends on a 60k 33k res warden 😆 its just stupid,but in general there is many ways to play your healer. 10 slot armory isnt enough for all the build i do in cyro and bgs ! Also, if you rely you survivabilty just on tankyness and vit it can be harder to understand momentum in pvp
Whats the addon that shows total healing and damage on the right? can BattleMetrics do that?
It's a setting in RDK Group Tool.
Hey man! First video I watched of yours. VERY informative thank you so much. Im wanting to build a warden healer. On my girlfriends account so she can follow me on warden and 2 others on wardens. All the cross healing a northern storm stacking could be deadly! Now I just gotta find out where to start. First time building a healer.
Thanks again. Im subscribing.
Real
i have 2 sets that gives good stats both for armor and heal. go to much for tank and you lose so much power on the heals its not even good, you start to spam heal and lose all mag so fast cus the healing is to weak. seen so many ppl go in with tank sets to heal and the healing is so weak. no point!! gota play smart and try be in back and not in front
This only applies to ball groups.
No
@@Degonyte I can run 48k health on my warden as a pure tank with side heals, keeping other players alive with heals and guard against way bigger groups no problem.
If I ran this kind of build with just 2-3 players we would easily be overwhelmed by big groups, you can't heal anyone if you can't stay alive, not to mention being able to tank a group leaves them open to get bombed by your teammates.
Tanks with heals are always and will always be better than a pure healer when you are not in a ball group.
@@metasaurus3233 There is a lot of space between a group with just 2-3 players and a ballgroup. The entire point of the video was that the situations in which a tank healer is more useful ARE there but consitute a vast minority of the PVP scenarios and therefore shouldn't be taken as the golden standard. Ballgroup play represents a tiny percentage of the PVP content I engage in and even then I mostly play other roles within that context. So no, the information in that video does not just apply to ballgroups.
Healers are always in the range of heals
Zenimax promotes this gameplay idk why everyone for 10 plus years has tried to change this. The games performance is soo bad that you can barely move cc break do anything almost the entire community of players that were good in pvp have left for other games. The people in the know are aware of how to change pvp but it's unwanted by the company they don't care about changing the battlefield.
Yoyo delboy here
ball groups should be banned in pvp
it kills the pvp and the players alone are at a disadvantage
Now we only see ball groups
sometimes I see 5 or 6 at the same time
thank you for your clip
Warden is fun in cyro,lifegiver is strong on my build.polar wind is like 22k instant heal and ticks about 8k health.im playing that build cuz im to slow in pvp 😂
Good stuff! Hurry up with that NA character already! 😊
I mostly do 4 man groups. You should be tanky and it’s not even an option. You can provide utility just as well if not better. There’s plenty of heavy sets that can be worn that aren’t selfish. You can easily make up for your lack of heals though cross healing and stacking power buffs with team.
It is an option because I frequently play 4-man groups without tank/heavy sets. If your team is good with stacking buffs and cross-heals you don't need extra tankiness to begin with.
Ball groups can't kill anything with out coordination of ultimates, cc's and a bomb. At least in xbox na, it's pathetic and disgusting.
You mean they can't kill anything without doing the specific thing they've been designed to do?
Don't see what the point of this is. There's a solo healer build where being tanky is needed. Buff sets is meant for organized groups. 1300 damage is like 250 more heal tick on a vigor or mutagen tick in pvp. This is more like guidelines on how to ball group and points made are supported by ball group cross healing. You play like this solo or in small group you will die easy and get ganked wearing 2 buff sets on not having 34k hp or more. There are certain builds that work better against zergs, and builds that work better against ball groups. As playstation players have fought against a ball group of builds that are all super tanky, and just straight up standard ball groups. Guess which one farms zergs easily for hours. The tanky ball group majority starting with the username OMFG. Then we have standard ball groups that can farm zergs but die more easy. Nonetheless the standard ball groups can kill the tank ball group while a zerg cant.
I play like this in nearly all content, including smallscale.
If you need tanky set-ups in a full ballgroup to farm zergs it's 100% a skill issue.
Pvp builds in general*
It all depends on what goals you're pursuing. A healer doesn't have many tools. And the main tool, healing, can literally be performed by every role. And it's literally the disease of the game. It's simple, if it were effective, people would use it. But it's just pointless. You say tanking doesn't help the team or yourself. But it's literally the opposite. Support sets literally don't help you or the team much. On the other hand, when enemies hit you, they don't hit your DPS. And you literally have the same amount of healing and can even get some team sustain help as if you were playing a full healer. That's the problem, you'll literally be more effective as a tank than as a healer. The problem is also that positional warfare is impossible because mages and nightblades exist. As a result, you don't bring much to your team, you'll still be dead most of the time. And yes, in a zerg game it's not so noticeable, but in a zerg game you can get focused and die instantly. And again, you don't bring the same value as DPS do to change your sets to support. Contact the developers, players play what they can.
"Support sets literally don't help you or the team much." Objectively wrong. All good groups will use support sets to build a statistical advantage over their enemies, even if the latter are more numerous. I'm sorry to be blunt, but everything you say here shows that you have little knowledge of or experience with group play.
Also, "play the way you want" is a marketing tagline that is used to attract Skyrim players. It has little bearing on the reality of the game, where there definitely are efficient and inefficient ways of trying to achieve your goals.
@@Degonyte again, too many walls. Most support sets is light armor, light armor is trash for pvp, position wars is impossible (people have a lot of movement, dushes, teleports, pulls and snare immunity). You cant increase healing too much, dps and tank actually have same healing. You can install support sets, but if it not hit you def much. Most skills required be close in combat, for example, orb provide much more sustain, than most sets. I mean, maby if light armor shield act endless (untill break), and depend on max magic, maby we have enough def to watch support sets more. Now no, need minimum 30k hp and armor cap, or you just be eating all the time.
@@seligfay7497 You seem to assume that having a heal slotted means you will do the same healing as a full healer. This is not at all the case. In a typical group, a healer will do about 4x the healing of a DD. The more that DD is built for solo (so *not* using support sets), the bigger the difference will be.
Again, I don't think you have any idea of how group play actually works and just make assumptions based on how you *think* it should work. There are mountains of gameplay montages, gameplay data and just every-day examples you can see with the naked eye everywhere in Cyrodiil that disprove all of what you're are saying.
@@Degonyte ok, i dont have experience, i dont play group and bla bla bla. How its happened, its not only about me? How its happened, its entire community like this? Maby something wrong?
@@seligfay7497 I am just pointing out that you are trying to weigh in on something while getting the basics wrong. I am always happy to answer questions, but if someone comes into my comment section giving out wrong information with ill-deserved confidence, there is only so much I can do.
You need extra tankiness? Just slot revealing flare. Youre welcome
And wear the Torc
@@msuphoto 100%
PVP is absolute trash in ESO anyway so it's all irrelevant. There hasn't been 1 balance patch for PVP in the past 8 months I've played the game. Not one. So it's tank meta as far as the eye can see. Tanks and Ganks and nothing inbetween.
ganks are not good and i think you can kill easily tanks
Tell us you suck at PvP without telling us
They really need to implement small scale ranked pvp. Or at least bring back death match only queue.
You obviously don't understand how to pvp
@@daledelatte9607 Wait, I left out bomber builds which kill 20 people at once. And the under 50 pvp bracket where people stomp all over noobs for fun every day. Yea, good pvp game.
real
real