He knew finnish, because back in the Soviet times, people in northern Estonia had access to finnish tv and illegally watched it, where they learned the language.
@@hisfriend2714He was fluent in Finnish but as a Finn I can tell he was far from bilingual. Many Estonians speak Finnish fluently. Besides, the communication with Mariella wasn't in Estonian like shown here. Folks at Mariella's deck spoke Swedish, Finnish and English in all the communication. Same goes for other ships and helicopters who came to rescue
Better to be late and alive is my motto. Just take it easy and make sure that you get to the destination safely. Instead of going far too fast, trying to avoid being late, and have something happen like this.
The Silja had an average velocity of 15.4 knots which is more than the assumed 14-15 knots of the Estonia, nobody assumed Silja was speeding by their average velocity.
that wasnt the problem tho.... that ship should have handled this speed in that kind of eweather...overall something very fishiy is going on in this case...hole was discovered lately in investigation,....and half of the car deck is also empty ...and why tried Swedish government to cover te wreck? Nobody ever does that...its VERY unusual
@@jp-legal silja europa is a much much bigger vessel and it has a different bow door that gets shut thighter when waves crash in to it, instead of estonias visor that gets pushed upwards making the locking system take on more load and stress from the waves. plus they were going in diffrent directions, estonia turned towards north and thats when the problems started. badly designed ship, badly maintained ship were the key reasons to the sinking
The Ship was when built only certified for shorter coastal voyage partly because of the combined collision bulkhead and visor. Later this was forgotten. This design was never intended for the route Tallinn Stockholm
Ah i see that must be the reason this is the only ship in the world that is illegal to dive to and 50m€+ spent on covering it with rocks and cement. I Have never been into conspiracy theories until i came across this. Also several survivors or people that knew something about the ship were murdered in following weeks.
@@felixbeutin8105 Several people loosely or closely connected to Estonia have been killed in obscure circumstances. Eesti Päevaleht tells, for example, about the fate of Igor Krištapovič, who served as director general of Estonian customs in the early 1990s. Krištapovič was shot in his own yard just a few weeks after the sinking of the Estonian. The reasons for the death have been sought from many directions: it has been speculated that Krištapoviš worked together with the Russians or ran a smuggling business in Estonia. However, the background of the bloodshed has remained unexplained - and no wonder: the Estonian police recorded around 400 killings or murders in the same year. Harri Enula, the managing director of Estline, the shipping company that owned Estonia at the time of the accident, also met an equally dark end. Enula's body was found wrapped in barbed wire on the railway between Tallinn and Keila in the summer of 1996. According to Eesti Päevalehti, the police considered the case a suicide, and the course of events that led to the death have not been clarified. The list of those who lost their lives also includes Heikki and Anne, who were shot in the middle of the day in the center of Tallinn. A man and a woman worked for a security company and were shot in the basement of the Eesti Telefon telephone company in December 1994. Later, Heik's mother is said to have talked about how her son had been tasked with delivering a package to Estonia just before the ship left on its fateful last journey. The package's interest was increased by the fact that it had to be delivered directly to the ship's captain. However, Heikki's mother had no information about the contents
@@felixbeutin8105 Several people loosely or closely connected to Estonia have been k**led in obscure circumstances. Eesti Päevaleht tells, for example, about the fate of Igor Krištapovič, who served as director general of Estonian customs in the early 1990s. Krištapovič was shot in his own yard just a few weeks after the sinking of the Estonian. The reasons for the death have been sought from many directions: it has been speculated that Krištapoviš worked together with the Russians or ran a smuggling business in Estonia. However, the background of the bloodshed has remained unexplained - and no wonder: the Estonian police recorded around 400 killings or murde**s in the same year. Harri Enula, the managing director of Estline, the shipping company that owned Estonia at the time of the accident, also met an equally dark end. Enula's body was found wrapped in barbed wire on the railway between Tallinn and Keila in the summer of 1996. According to Eesti Päevalehti, the police considered the case a suic**e, and the course of events that led to the death have not been clarified. The list of those who lost their lives also includes Heikki and Anne, who were shot in the middle of the day in the center of Tallinn. A man and a woman worked for a security company and were shot in the basement of the Eesti Telefon telephone company in December 1994. Later, Heik's mother is said to have talked about how her son had been tasked with delivering a package to Estonia just before the ship left on its fateful last journey. The package's interest was increased by the fact that it had to be delivered directly to the ship's captain. However, Heikki's mother had no information about the contents
@@felixbeutin8105 you will have to google 'Estonian ympärillä velloo edelleen' and open the 'iltalehti' article. Use the translate feature for english. It won't let me copy paste it
The rescue operation was a disaster. The other ships were present almost immidiately after sinking but rescued only some dozen people. Then quit suddenly. Helicopters came in the morning and saved those who weren`t frozen to death.
I dont understand why they contacted helicopters soo late.... they could have saved more people also I heard that they were sooo bad at rescuing people that they actually killed many people... it actually reminds me a lot of MV Sewol story.... although in sewol victims were mostly children and this stpory was a little bit more upsetting cause those so called rescurers had more possibilities to save people...actually everyone could have been saved
@@marguskiis7711 Where did you invent this story? The ships were helping until the next late morning and did everythin they could. Also the first heli arrived about and hour later after the sinking... Idiot.
It's interesting that Meyer Werft seemed to avoid scrutiny, despite similar issues with a number of their ships. I've done two night crossings on one of their more modern ships, Stenna Lines Stenna Britannica which operates across the north sea. At least lessons were learned and modern ferries have clamshell visors, watertight divisions on the car decks, and a higher freeboard (the opening to the car deck being higher off the water).
35:30 Öun took pictures when the boat was about to go down. Why didn't they show them in this documentary?? He accidentally took a picture of a passenger sitting on the hull with two lifejackets on. Eerie af.
@Matti Mäenpää Apparently there was a big repeater station in St Petersberg turned on eating a lot of juice that night, lots of jamming and spoofing tech even back then.
Estonia did try to contact Mariella first, but they didn't pick up. Possibly, due to radio problems, they were able to get hold of Silja Europa. (In the original call Estonia asked if Viking line heard the message.
The young guy from 9:22 should be a seaman Silver Linde, who was a tall and bulky guy actually. A controversial figure who used to testimony different stories later but whose words were the main basis of the official raport, much critisized later years.
The 1997 rapport is a plain lie. It says the main ramp door behind the visor was someway full opened and the ship sank due it. Actually the ramp door was and still IS only slightly opened. It is impossible to open it without the engine.
There is a theory that if it was partially opened, the crew may have had to fully lower it to bring it back up again if the hydraulics jammed. There was indeed one crewman who was on deck 7 and spoke to three other crew, and he went out to look at it and apparently was washed away. That would have been the single on record person to see the state of the visor.
@@marguskiis7711 I am not sure if we are talking about the same person. I am talking about a person who went outside onto the deck to look at the visor, and was apparently washed away. He had a key to the only door that went onto the deck. There were a few people who must have had a look internally.
@@marguskiis7711 that isn't relevant to the issue I am stating. The comission based there testimony about the bow visor on those five witnesses and no one else. That is clearly ridiculous when so much else was left out and no mention at all of other issues. It is worth understanding the statements they made even if you don't agree with them, so people can agree it is strange the 5 people who supported their point were most likely under some kind of givernment control, thus not impartial witnesses. The ramp was witnessed on a cctv camera as gushing water and there was a hole right necy to the visor. The question is not did the bow visor come off, but how, and if that came off through explosion as fokus estonia claims, what did that do to the boat? Was is just one of many knife cuts or was it the main one. As far as the ramp goes too, if it was leaking they may have tried to lower it in order to raise it back up again. What no one can argue is by the time first film was taken of the ramp there was a bend in it big enough for a diver. Another question is how did that get there. If you watch something like Estonia Katastrof the guy always comes up with his theories how the bow visor could have caused things, though I find it hard to believe. For me it is most likely the bow visor was a decoy, for purposes hard to understand. It doesn't mean it wasn't somehow manipulated, and if it was opened through human action it is also important to understand how and why. Clearly a lot doesn't add up.
This has got to be one of the worst shot docu-dramas ever. Just shake the camera endlessly, showing nothing coherent to illustrate the continuity of what was happening to the ship...just scrambled shaking shots of random action spliced together without a clear clue visually as to what was going on. Without the narration who would know what was going on. The details of the mechanical construction of the forward structure and how the damage progressed is vague and choppy. I saw another documentary about this disaster that aired sometime in the mid-to-later-90's, which diagrammed clearly events every step of the way, and which employed a progressive tilting of the camerawork that made it very clear how the ship was rolling onto its side without falling back on the "fake action" shaky-cam approach. I've been looking to see that very well-done documentation of this event again, and thought that this might be it, but....instead wound up watching a chunk of this before giving up. (I don't normally complain about things like this---free after all------but I just felt this one deserved comment. And the people who went through this and those who didn't survive also deserved a better record to the ordeal they went through.
I am not sure what they were trying to portray, I think they were trying to portray failed mayday calls (i.e: no recordings exist) but yes, they were not the recorded calls. Apparently there was a lot of radio comms that night, going back to the boats owners. I think it is very interesting they didn´t show the part where the hailer asked specifically if the guy spoke Finnish, makes me wonder why.
@@evanburgess8428 Because the were in Finnish waters and if your English let you down and your Finnish is better, then you might fall back to the tongue. Most of the bridge crew were Estonians.
@@jp-legal That night there were exercises and it has been reported that channels were being occupied by Russian speakers, seemingly deliberately. During exercises, just like with the sinking of the Kursk, it is very normal to try and spoof radar, get too close for comfort and generally try to ruin the exercises for the opposing side. During the Iraq 2003 invasion this is exactly what happened, they simply broadcast pre-recorded messages to be deliberately intercepted and then did the rehearsed operation under radio silence and pen and paper messages. In this video, the man on the right talks about this jamming and interference, as well as that messages went out, one to the effect of "Jag bestämmer inte över båten". What seems certain is that there were lots of messages before that mayday call, and in my opinion if the person was on the ship at the time of making it, they were making it to try and exclude outside listeners and guarantee who they were talking to. This is normal radio behaviour, just like in Afghanistan American forces used Spanish in order to confuse and weed out any false messages. ruclips.net/video/O6bBW18KT3U/видео.html
@@evanburgess8428 Thanks for the insights. I also believe there was trys of mayday calls before. The use of Finnish for optimizing the chances to get through seems a plausible explanation. But they got through not by radio because of the disturbance, but by walkie talkie/handy kinds. I am not technically educated. And the exercise was in skagerrak, but the ukw disturbing reached just as far as Stockholm and the source was the station Gogland next to St. Petersburg. Years after the accident the Russians apologized for the radio disturbance according to Jutta Rabe. So the disturbing can not have had the goal to disturb NATO in Skagerrak. During the other days there was no disturbing noticed during the nato exercise. So in this point I doubt it was meant to disturb the skagerrak exercise. If it was securing not reaching help from others than the goal was definitely not just hinder the course of the Estonia but death. At 8.00 on the 28.09.1994 the Russian offered help with the Estonia and they said they would do it because there were 2 Russians on board... Perhaps these two should not have left Russia or if survived they wanted to get them back.
@@jp-legal Russia was in a state close to civil war. They would have many factions and it is quite possible people with senior positions did all the work without Yeltsin's knowledge. In 1993 Yeltsin was shelling the parliament. It is not possible to know the motive whether they apologised or not, Russia has apologised for Soviet war crimes and intended to do.them. Finnish is important because it is a very hard language to learn and very hard to imitate, hence people who speak Finnish as a native are so much more likely to be Finnish than a Swede, someone speaking English saying they're finnish, or even Estonians, of whom many were bilingual estonian and russian, perhaps speaking finnish but having a strong accent. There are many ways of disturbing radio signals and jamming is only one. Occupying the signal, spoofing and sending false messages is another. Spoofing is essentially making someone believe they're somewhere they're not or that you're someone you're not. Stating you know where NAto had their exercises is like me saying I know what the CIA had for breakfast. It's an organisation based on secrecy, so whilst an official exercise may have been going on it doesn't stop something else also happening which is classified. Vast amounts of the estonia investigation are classified so I don't think NATO or anyone else would have trouble hiding their locations.
All the officers died, so nobody knows what exactly happened on the bridge. From 1.05 to 1.22 bridge was totally silent. The identities of the guys who radiod to another ship at 1.22 are only supposed because they probably died too and nobody saw them doing it. The radio they used was an alternative, spare radio. They did not make contact with shores and border patrols and they did not use official formulares.
@@TheTjompen NATO exercise was on the other side from where the jamming source was. A few years ago the Russians apologized for the disturbance. The source of the jamming was at Gogland. A Russian military bastion before St. Petersburg.
They were not totally silent, there is a mayday recording, where they tried to communicate with the Mariella mayday at first, but as Mariella not responded for some reason, they made the famous mayday call. It is surprising that Mariella and Silja saw the Estonia disappear from the radar, but insisted on getting the exact position before that. I mean they saw Estonia on the radar. Even Silja asked Mariella if they can see the Estonia that is how near they were. Estonia saw at least on the Radar that Mariella was the next from them, if not by eyes.
Seen so many of these documentarys about this terrible event, but this is the first time l have heard of people robbing passengers.They have to be the lowest of the low, l hope to god not one of them survived 😡😡 RIP those souls lost that fateful day 🌹
The whole "docu-drama" is Estonian made and just tries to lift up how estonians made their jobs in the night of disaster. Very little do to with real events as estonians normally are known to robbery and lies in european countries.
The time scale is wrong. The list appeared already about 1.05. The official raport cut the time shorter to protect the officers` honour and avoid the questions on the strange passiveness of the bridge during 1.05 to 1.22.
@Felsmak You can see a Swedish interview with the captain of the first boat that arrived, he said when they got there the boat had been disappeared off the radio for a time, but when they looked down they saw what looked like a Christmas tree in the water. Who knows how long it would have taken to disappear from the radar, it must have had some trapped air in it and as the film said lots of bubbling.
@@lloydisaacs415 Yes in matters of physical laws and matters of openings, water impact and sinking velocity it might matter a great deal. It might make the difference between a crime and an accident.
@@TheTjompen problems started already at 1. But the bridge did not anything. They did not warn anybody at all. They did not radio about the issues. The two guys on the radio here sound unaccurate. They sound like some simple seamen. The bridge officers should know ship's position ALL the time. It was put on the paper map always visible. The two guys had to search the position from the map like they never saw it before.
A relative of mine, the cousin of my grandfather, should’ve had that shift as a bar worker. Luckily, for him, but unlucky for his replacer, he got some days off and were home when Estonia sank..
Can you give a source for that? I heard Juri Lina say that, and he went further to say that the captain at the time had his throat cut. Now, I know this is very hard to prove, but considering there were mystery guys on the deck robbing people and preventing people from escaping alive, you clearly had murderers on the boat that night. Why wouldn´t they have killed other people too? The kinds of people who were on that boat that night had some very murky business on the go.
@@evanburgess8428 I have only a German book about an investigation about the "Estonia", I do not know if it is available in English: Jutta Rabe: Die Estonia, Delius Klasing, sorry :-)
@@DirkWeag I can read German, also a few articles about it in Swedish and Juri Lina, Jan Gillberg and others said the same in their interviews. Interestingly, Gillberg claims there were illegal immigrants from Kurdistan that night as well as at least 100 more passengers than were officially given out.
Would make sense, since whoever robbed the people on the deck was 1. There first, so maybe knew what was going on 2. Prepared to murder/cause death. Who were these people? If I were investigating, I wouldn't assume these are just people who decided in the last moments of life to take a few necklaces spontaneously. They may well have got off before a lot of other people.
@@evanburgess8428 I really do not know how and what illegal operations were held on the Estonia in those last days of the Soviet Union (e.g. selling radioactive material to the USA via Scandinavian ports), it is hard to imagine and hard to explain (too much speculation), but the greatest scandal for me is that the Estonia was never built for the open Baltic sea, only for operating in the near reach of the coast, but the government allowed that via certifications (perhaps corruption?). All the divers know more than us but they have to keep their mouth shut...I do not see a conspiracy but I think every country related to this desaster tries to hide something different till today, so nobody of them is really interested in solving that mystery of unanswered questions...like "if you do not talk about human trafficking, we do not talk about arms smuggling"
A real disaster and Sweden's right-wing government between the years 1991-94 and the Western Alliance is to blame for the catastrophe after smuggling military equipment out from Russia after the end of the Cold War.
that is true,there even was a witnessing port security officer,who claims,that he saw a column of white military kamaz trucks without registration plates drive inside estonia-s cargo deck just before leaving port
Greek Ferry Disasters: RMS Megatinic (1915-1920) Sinks At 12 June 1920 SS Dimos Voritis (1960-1965) Sinks At 28 March 1965 SS Patricia (1958-1971) Sinks At 13 February 1971 MS Sol Prince II (1966-1987) Fire At 22 April 1986 MS La Paz (1974-1990) Fire At 27 July 1989 MS Mediterranean Galaxy (1980-) Fire At 9 January 1990 MS Xasireklidika (1962-1991) Fire At 25 September 1990 MS Ionian Memory (1967-1998) Sinks Likes The Concordia At 15 February 1994 MS Greek Princess (1962-1999) Likes The Poseidon At 13 January 1996 MS Nisyros (1990-1998) Sinks At 28 September 1998 MS Express Naxiotis (1968-2001) Sinks At 26 January 2001 MS Da Villa (1990-2001) Sinks At 25 May 2001 MS Sea Emerald (1987-2008) Sinks At 26 August 2008 MS Pikudi (1994-2014) Sinks And Raised At 15 April 2014
@@OttoTheKari Actually the safety offcials slept at the beginning in their rooms, woke up and left the ship pretty fast. They were ironically the only higher officials who survived.
@@TheMursk Nobody said to people and seamen too what`s going on. Bridge was totally silent. Seamen asked several times from bridge what`s going on but bridge did not answer anything.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Neva Play (feat. RM) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TpYTyAaTRts/mqdefault.jpg)
the only problem that I saw was where senior officer Andres Tammes speaking Estonian even though he actually spoke finnish in the actual call
He may have been bilingual because the Finnish language is so similar to Estonian either language pretty easy to learn for either side
He knew finnish, because back in the Soviet times, people in northern Estonia had access to finnish tv and illegally watched it, where they learned the language.
@@hisfriend2714He was fluent in Finnish but as a Finn I can tell he was far from bilingual. Many Estonians speak Finnish fluently. Besides, the communication with Mariella wasn't in Estonian like shown here. Folks at Mariella's deck spoke Swedish, Finnish and English in all the communication. Same goes for other ships and helicopters who came to rescue
Same problem with Silja Europas captain. They both started with english but chanced to finnish in real life.
24 years ago. My parents woke up in the morning, heard the news and were shocked, we had family members in there, they all died.
@Sofia Koivusalo thank you
what name they had
Sorry for your loss 🙏
so sorry mate
@@2012isRonPaul why tf are kids so rude nowadays?
I could not even imagine going through something like this, the horror.
Better to be late and alive is my motto. Just take it easy and make sure that you get to the destination safely. Instead of going far too fast, trying to avoid being late, and have something happen like this.
The Silja had an average velocity of 15.4 knots which is more than the assumed 14-15 knots of the Estonia, nobody assumed Silja was speeding by their average velocity.
that wasnt the problem tho.... that ship should have handled this speed in that kind of eweather...overall something very fishiy is going on in this case...hole was discovered lately in investigation,....and half of the car deck is also empty ...and why tried Swedish government to cover te wreck? Nobody ever does that...its VERY unusual
@@jp-legal silja europa is a much much bigger vessel and it has a different bow door that gets shut thighter when waves crash in to it, instead of estonias visor that gets pushed upwards making the locking system take on more load and stress from the waves. plus they were going in diffrent directions, estonia turned towards north and thats when the problems started. badly designed ship, badly maintained ship were the key reasons to the sinking
@@HK-gm8pe the hole is on the port side estonia sank over her starboard side....
The Ship was when built only certified for shorter coastal voyage partly because of the combined collision bulkhead and visor. Later this was forgotten. This design was never intended for the route Tallinn Stockholm
Ah i see that must be the reason this is the only ship in the world that is illegal to dive to and 50m€+ spent on covering it with rocks and cement. I Have never been into conspiracy theories until i came across this. Also several survivors or people that knew something about the ship were murdered in following weeks.
@@unrealmagic6519 any source for the murder claims ?
@@felixbeutin8105 Several people loosely or closely connected to Estonia have been killed in obscure circumstances. Eesti Päevaleht tells, for example, about the fate of Igor Krištapovič, who served as director general of Estonian customs in the early 1990s. Krištapovič was shot in his own yard just a few weeks after the sinking of the Estonian. The reasons for the death have been sought from many directions: it has been speculated that Krištapoviš worked together with the Russians or ran a smuggling business in Estonia. However, the background of the bloodshed has remained unexplained - and no wonder: the Estonian police recorded around 400 killings or murders in the same year.
Harri Enula, the managing director of Estline, the shipping company that owned Estonia at the time of the accident, also met an equally dark end. Enula's body was found wrapped in barbed wire on the railway between Tallinn and Keila in the summer of 1996. According to Eesti Päevalehti, the police considered the case a suicide, and the course of events that led to the death have not been clarified.
The list of those who lost their lives also includes Heikki and Anne, who were shot in the middle of the day in the center of Tallinn. A man and a woman worked for a security company and were shot in the basement of the Eesti Telefon telephone company in December 1994. Later, Heik's mother is said to have talked about how her son had been tasked with delivering a package to Estonia just before the ship left on its fateful last journey. The package's interest was increased by the fact that it had to be delivered directly to the ship's captain. However, Heikki's mother had no information about the contents
@@felixbeutin8105 Several people loosely or closely connected to Estonia have been k**led in obscure circumstances. Eesti Päevaleht tells, for example, about the fate of Igor Krištapovič, who served as director general of Estonian customs in the early 1990s. Krištapovič was shot in his own yard just a few weeks after the sinking of the Estonian. The reasons for the death have been sought from many directions: it has been speculated that Krištapoviš worked together with the Russians or ran a smuggling business in Estonia. However, the background of the bloodshed has remained unexplained - and no wonder: the Estonian police recorded around 400 killings or murde**s in the same year.
Harri Enula, the managing director of Estline, the shipping company that owned Estonia at the time of the accident, also met an equally dark end. Enula's body was found wrapped in barbed wire on the railway between Tallinn and Keila in the summer of 1996. According to Eesti Päevalehti, the police considered the case a suic**e, and the course of events that led to the death have not been clarified.
The list of those who lost their lives also includes Heikki and Anne, who were shot in the middle of the day in the center of Tallinn. A man and a woman worked for a security company and were shot in the basement of the Eesti Telefon telephone company in December 1994. Later, Heik's mother is said to have talked about how her son had been tasked with delivering a package to Estonia just before the ship left on its fateful last journey. The package's interest was increased by the fact that it had to be delivered directly to the ship's captain. However, Heikki's mother had no information about the contents
@@felixbeutin8105 you will have to google 'Estonian ympärillä velloo edelleen' and open the 'iltalehti' article. Use the translate feature for english. It won't let me copy paste it
I still remember that awful footage of the rescue operation and seeing the dead bodies in the rafts. What a horrible tragedy this was.
The rescue operation was a disaster. The other ships were present almost immidiately after sinking but rescued only some dozen people. Then quit suddenly. Helicopters came in the morning and saved those who weren`t frozen to death.
I dont understand why they contacted helicopters soo late.... they could have saved more people also I heard that they were sooo bad at rescuing people that they actually killed many people... it actually reminds me a lot of MV Sewol story.... although in sewol victims were mostly children and this stpory was a little bit more upsetting cause those so called rescurers had more possibilities to save people...actually everyone could have been saved
@@marguskiis7711 Where did you invent this story? The ships were helping until the next late morning and did everythin they could. Also the first heli arrived about and hour later after the sinking... Idiot.
It's interesting that Meyer Werft seemed to avoid scrutiny, despite similar issues with a number of their ships. I've done two night crossings on one of their more modern ships, Stenna Lines Stenna Britannica which operates across the north sea. At least lessons were learned and modern ferries have clamshell visors, watertight divisions on the car decks, and a higher freeboard (the opening to the car deck being higher off the water).
Always be aware of your surroundings. And I hope the victims,friends and families have found some kind of peace and closure.😢
just imagine the people on Silja Europa and other ships being confused about whats going on the Estonia at that moment
25 years for now r.i.p all passengers and the ship
They might rest in peace if proper buried.
35:30 Öun took pictures when the boat was about to go down. Why didn't they show them in this documentary?? He accidentally took a picture of a passenger sitting on the hull with two lifejackets on. Eerie af.
that pic looks so terrifying
The crew waited far too long to call for help!
@Matti Mäenpää Apparently there was a big repeater station in St Petersberg turned on eating a lot of juice that night, lots of jamming and spoofing tech even back then.
@@evanburgess8428 In fact it was the Russian military station on the island Gogland before St. Petersburg.
Source the Russians "apologized" for it a few years ago.
A few things about the radio communication is wrong. They first contacted M/S Silja Europa and not Mariella.
they didn't say the called Mariella first
@@felixbeutin8105 Didn’t say that, but by the timeline in the video it went like that.
Estonia did try to contact Mariella first, but they didn't pick up. Possibly, due to radio problems, they were able to get hold of Silja Europa. (In the original call Estonia asked if Viking line heard the message.
The young guy from 9:22 should be a seaman Silver Linde, who was a tall and bulky guy actually. A controversial figure who used to testimony different stories later but whose words were the main basis of the official raport, much critisized later years.
JAIC took no testimonies from the suriviours. The where "victims"= not importent. Idiots! Swedens biggest cover-up...
Those muggers you should have said go on then do your fucking worst i can't believe they were robbing people
The 1997 rapport is a plain lie. It says the main ramp door behind the visor was someway full opened and the ship sank due it. Actually the ramp door was and still IS only slightly opened. It is impossible to open it without the engine.
There is a theory that if it was partially opened, the crew may have had to fully lower it to bring it back up again if the hydraulics jammed. There was indeed one crewman who was on deck 7 and spoke to three other crew, and he went out to look at it and apparently was washed away. That would have been the single on record person to see the state of the visor.
@@evanburgess8428 the crew guy who went to check out the ramp survived and is still alive.
@@marguskiis7711 I am not sure if we are talking about the same person. I am talking about a person who went outside onto the deck to look at the visor, and was apparently washed away. He had a key to the only door that went onto the deck. There were a few people who must have had a look internally.
@@evanburgess8428 visor wasn't important. It wasn't waterrproof anyway. The ramp, the main door was waterproof.
@@marguskiis7711 that isn't relevant to the issue I am stating. The comission based there testimony about the bow visor on those five witnesses and no one else. That is clearly ridiculous when so much else was left out and no mention at all of other issues. It is worth understanding the statements they made even if you don't agree with them, so people can agree it is strange the 5 people who supported their point were most likely under some kind of givernment control, thus not impartial witnesses.
The ramp was witnessed on a cctv camera as gushing water and there was a hole right necy to the visor. The question is not did the bow visor come off, but how, and if that came off through explosion as fokus estonia claims, what did that do to the boat? Was is just one of many knife cuts or was it the main one.
As far as the ramp goes too, if it was leaking they may have tried to lower it in order to raise it back up again. What no one can argue is by the time first film was taken of the ramp there was a bend in it big enough for a diver. Another question is how did that get there.
If you watch something like Estonia Katastrof the guy always comes up with his theories how the bow visor could have caused things, though I find it hard to believe.
For me it is most likely the bow visor was a decoy, for purposes hard to understand. It doesn't mean it wasn't somehow manipulated, and if it was opened through human action it is also important to understand how and why.
Clearly a lot doesn't add up.
This has got to be one of the worst shot docu-dramas ever. Just shake the camera endlessly, showing nothing coherent to illustrate the continuity of what was happening to the ship...just scrambled shaking shots of random action spliced together without a clear clue visually as to what was going on. Without the narration who would know what was going on. The details of the mechanical construction of the forward structure and how the damage progressed is vague and choppy. I saw another documentary about this disaster that aired sometime in the mid-to-later-90's, which diagrammed clearly events every step of the way, and which employed a progressive tilting of the camerawork that made it very clear how the ship was rolling onto its side without falling back on the "fake action" shaky-cam approach. I've been looking to see that very well-done documentation of this event again, and thought that this might be it, but....instead wound up watching a chunk of this before giving up. (I don't normally complain about things like this---free after all------but I just felt this one deserved comment. And the people who went through this and those who didn't survive also deserved a better record to the ordeal they went through.
I’m with you , I can not stand the shaky vibrating camera cutting to different scenes back and forth in split seconds it’s just awful on the viewer
The mayday calls were all wrong
I am not sure what they were trying to portray, I think they were trying to portray failed mayday calls (i.e: no recordings exist) but yes, they were not the recorded calls. Apparently there was a lot of radio comms that night, going back to the boats owners. I think it is very interesting they didn´t show the part where the hailer asked specifically if the guy spoke Finnish, makes me wonder why.
@@evanburgess8428 Because the were in Finnish waters and if your English let you down and your Finnish is better, then you might fall back to the tongue. Most of the bridge crew were Estonians.
@@jp-legal
That night there were exercises and it has been reported that channels were being occupied by Russian speakers, seemingly deliberately. During exercises, just like with the sinking of the Kursk, it is very normal to try and spoof radar, get too close for comfort and generally try to ruin the exercises for the opposing side.
During the Iraq 2003 invasion this is exactly what happened, they simply broadcast pre-recorded messages to be deliberately intercepted and then did the rehearsed operation under radio silence and pen and paper messages.
In this video, the man on the right talks about this jamming and interference, as well as that messages went out, one to the effect of "Jag bestämmer inte över båten". What seems certain is that there were lots of messages before that mayday call, and in my opinion if the person was on the ship at the time of making it, they were making it to try and exclude outside listeners and guarantee who they were talking to.
This is normal radio behaviour, just like in Afghanistan American forces used Spanish in order to confuse and weed out any false messages.
ruclips.net/video/O6bBW18KT3U/видео.html
@@evanburgess8428 Thanks for the insights. I also believe there was trys of mayday calls before. The use of Finnish for optimizing the chances to get through seems a plausible explanation. But they got through not by radio because of the disturbance, but by walkie talkie/handy kinds. I am not technically educated.
And the exercise was in skagerrak, but the ukw disturbing reached just as far as Stockholm and the source was the station Gogland next to St. Petersburg. Years after the accident the Russians apologized for the radio disturbance according to Jutta Rabe. So the disturbing can not have had the goal to disturb NATO in Skagerrak. During the other days there was no disturbing noticed during the nato exercise. So in this point I doubt it was meant to disturb the skagerrak exercise. If it was securing not reaching help from others than the goal was definitely not just hinder the course of the Estonia but death.
At 8.00 on the 28.09.1994 the Russian offered help with the Estonia and they said they would do it because there were 2 Russians on board... Perhaps these two should not have left Russia or if survived they wanted to get them back.
@@jp-legal Russia was in a state close to civil war. They would have many factions and it is quite possible people with senior positions did all the work without Yeltsin's knowledge. In 1993 Yeltsin was shelling the parliament. It is not possible to know the motive whether they apologised or not, Russia has apologised for Soviet war crimes and intended to do.them.
Finnish is important because it is a very hard language to learn and very hard to imitate, hence people who speak Finnish as a native are so much more likely to be Finnish than a Swede, someone speaking English saying they're finnish, or even Estonians, of whom many were bilingual estonian and russian, perhaps speaking finnish but having a strong accent.
There are many ways of disturbing radio signals and jamming is only one. Occupying the signal, spoofing and sending false messages is another.
Spoofing is essentially making someone believe they're somewhere they're not or that you're someone you're not.
Stating you know where NAto had their exercises is like me saying I know what the CIA had for breakfast. It's an organisation based on secrecy, so whilst an official exercise may have been going on it doesn't stop something else also happening which is classified.
Vast amounts of the estonia investigation are classified so I don't think NATO or anyone else would have trouble hiding their locations.
I like these documentaries that make it seem more realistic by using the country's native language.
All the officers died, so nobody knows what exactly happened on the bridge. From 1.05 to 1.22 bridge was totally silent. The identities of the guys who radiod to another ship at 1.22 are only supposed because they probably died too and nobody saw them doing it. The radio they used was an alternative, spare radio. They did not make contact with shores and border patrols and they did not use official formulares.
Do you think the hole they found after could have been an engine explosion..? Cos there’s something not right with this..
@@Roscoe.P.Coldchain There is holes.. but how? Military excercise in the area,.. could have impacted the mayday.. jamming.
I heard the final officer speaking was the senior officer Andres tammes
@@TheTjompen NATO exercise was on the other side from where the jamming source was. A few years ago the Russians apologized for the disturbance. The source of the jamming was at Gogland. A Russian military bastion before St. Petersburg.
They were not totally silent, there is a mayday recording, where they tried to communicate with the Mariella mayday at first, but as Mariella not responded for some reason, they made the famous mayday call. It is surprising that Mariella and Silja saw the Estonia disappear from the radar, but insisted on getting the exact position before that. I mean they saw Estonia on the radar. Even Silja asked Mariella if they can see the Estonia that is how near they were. Estonia saw at least on the Radar that Mariella was the next from them, if not by eyes.
Seen so many of these documentarys about this terrible event, but this is the first time l have heard of people robbing passengers.They have to be the lowest of the low, l hope to god not one of them survived 😡😡 RIP those souls lost that fateful day 🌹
The whole "docu-drama" is Estonian made and just tries to lift up how estonians made their jobs in the night of disaster. Very little do to with real events as estonians normally are known to robbery and lies in european countries.
Stop saying that, that's rude
@@theoryianabsolute8777 😡😡
We will never know what happened. They know and are not telling the truth.
Definitely. Probably one day documents will leak
i like kent
why not turn left, the captain problably
I could never leave my mom , dad and girlfriend to die. I would at least die trying to save them.
The time scale is wrong. The list appeared already about 1.05. The official raport cut the time shorter to protect the officers` honour and avoid the questions on the strange passiveness of the bridge during 1.05 to 1.22.
The times scales showed here doesnt' match the survivours. The ship sunk even faster..
We're you there i think it doesn't really matter if they got the time right what's going on
@Felsmak You can see a Swedish interview with the captain of the first boat that arrived, he said when they got there the boat had been disappeared off the radio for a time, but when they looked down they saw what looked like a Christmas tree in the water. Who knows how long it would have taken to disappear from the radar, it must have had some trapped air in it and as the film said lots of bubbling.
@@lloydisaacs415 Yes in matters of physical laws and matters of openings, water impact and sinking velocity it might matter a great deal. It might make the difference between a crime and an accident.
@@TheTjompen problems started already at 1. But the bridge did not anything. They did not warn anybody at all. They did not radio about the issues. The two guys on the radio here sound unaccurate. They sound like some simple seamen. The bridge officers should know ship's position ALL the time. It was put on the paper map always visible. The two guys had to search the position from the map like they never saw it before.
23 years ago today.
26*
4:36 jos verstapen's dad
A relative of mine, the cousin of my grandfather, should’ve had that shift as a bar worker. Luckily, for him, but unlucky for his replacer, he got some days off and were home when Estonia sank..
So many narrative errors in this documentary, its crazy. The basics like the clock in the truclers room says 1.05 but by then the shup was sinking.
He ned help
Did they find who the looters were or did they drown?
witness (one of the divers) says that Captain Andersen had a bullet in his head...
Can you give a source for that? I heard Juri Lina say that, and he went further to say that the captain at the time had his throat cut. Now, I know this is very hard to prove, but considering there were mystery guys on the deck robbing people and preventing people from escaping alive, you clearly had murderers on the boat that night. Why wouldn´t they have killed other people too? The kinds of people who were on that boat that night had some very murky business on the go.
@@evanburgess8428 I have only a German book about an investigation about the "Estonia", I do not know if it is available in English: Jutta Rabe: Die Estonia, Delius Klasing, sorry :-)
@@DirkWeag I can read German, also a few articles about it in Swedish and Juri Lina, Jan Gillberg and others said the same in their interviews. Interestingly, Gillberg claims there were illegal immigrants from Kurdistan that night as well as at least 100 more passengers than were officially given out.
Would make sense, since whoever robbed the people on the deck was
1. There first, so maybe knew what was going on
2. Prepared to murder/cause death. Who were these people? If I were investigating, I wouldn't assume these are just people who decided in the last moments of life to take a few necklaces spontaneously. They may well have got off before a lot of other people.
@@evanburgess8428 I really do not know how and what illegal operations were held on the Estonia in those last days of the Soviet Union (e.g. selling radioactive material to the USA via Scandinavian ports), it is hard to imagine and hard to explain (too much speculation), but the greatest scandal for me is that the Estonia was never built for the open Baltic sea, only for operating in the near reach of the coast, but the government allowed that via certifications (perhaps corruption?). All the divers know more than us but they have to keep their mouth shut...I do not see a conspiracy but I think every country related to this desaster tries to hide something different till today, so nobody of them is really interested in solving that mystery of unanswered questions...like "if you do not talk about human trafficking, we do not talk about arms smuggling"
A real disaster and Sweden's right-wing government between the years 1991-94 and the Western Alliance is to blame for the catastrophe after smuggling military equipment out from Russia after the end of the Cold War.
wtf
Estoniafyndet - Sveriges största sida och nyhetsarkiv om Estoniakatastrofen.
@@pagedown4195 this is too sus
that is true,there even was a witnessing port security officer,who claims,that he saw a column of white military kamaz trucks without registration plates drive inside estonia-s cargo deck just before leaving port
Greek Ferry Disasters:
RMS Megatinic (1915-1920)
Sinks At 12 June 1920
SS Dimos Voritis (1960-1965)
Sinks At 28 March 1965
SS Patricia (1958-1971)
Sinks At 13 February 1971
MS Sol Prince II (1966-1987)
Fire At 22 April 1986
MS La Paz (1974-1990)
Fire At 27 July 1989
MS Mediterranean Galaxy (1980-)
Fire At 9 January 1990
MS Xasireklidika (1962-1991)
Fire At 25 September 1990
MS Ionian Memory (1967-1998)
Sinks Likes The Concordia At 15 February 1994
MS Greek Princess (1962-1999)
Likes The Poseidon At 13 January 1996
MS Nisyros (1990-1998)
Sinks At 28 September 1998
MS Express Naxiotis (1968-2001)
Sinks At 26 January 2001
MS Da Villa (1990-2001)
Sinks At 25 May 2001
MS Sea Emerald (1987-2008)
Sinks At 26 August 2008
MS Pikudi (1994-2014)
Sinks And Raised At 15 April 2014
also MS Express Samina / Εξπρές Σαμίνα (1966-2000)
Sunk due to colliding with Portes islets on 26 September, 2000
Jesus that’s a lot of accidents
You forgot Titanic in 1912
Yeah this i bull..... hiding in plainsite
Rip all humans
Why didn't the actors just spoke English. Their Swedish sounds like Donald Trump when he tried to speak Hindi.
@Anya Harrison he speaks english better when hes talking about kids . when hes holding speeches otherwise hes rambling like a alzheimers patient :3
@@l0kaltpsykf4ll34 we all know Biden speaks the best English
hmmmm.......
The evacuation and also the rescue mission were a shameful disaster!!! In 1st world countries such as sweden and finland, smh...
There was nothing wrong with the rescue mission. There simply wasn't many left to pick up.
ruclips.net/video/V5tbah19qo8/видео.html
I really do not get what you mean here. Every single rescue team member did their best and I think you are they only one here that should be ashamed.
@@OttoTheKari Actually the safety offcials slept at the beginning in their rooms, woke up and left the ship pretty fast. They were ironically the only higher officials who survived.
@@TheMursk Nobody said to people and seamen too what`s going on. Bridge was totally silent. Seamen asked several times from bridge what`s going on but bridge did not answer anything.
O
Estoniafyndet - Swedens largest website and forum about the Estonia ferry disaster.
What's that?