Spanish MP41/44 - A Copy of the Erma EMP
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- The Spanish-made MP41/44 is a licensed copy of the Erma EMP submachine gun. The development begins with Heinrich Vollmer in 1925, designing a submachine gun for German military testing. The military trials showed a number of flaws in the gun, and Vollmer updated the design to fix them - but by the time he had it perfected his main source of funding (the German government) dried up because of the Great Depression. Vollmer had not been able to get a substantial contract for his guns, so he sold the rights to the design to the Erma company in 1930. Erma was able to market the guns much more widely and effectively, and was able to sell more than 20,000 of them worldwide.
Mechanically, the EMP is not a strict copy of any other guns that were then on the market. It used a double-feed magazine (unlike the Schmeisser-designed guns like the MP18 and MP28), a pretty typical open bolt blowback operating mechanism, and a simple disassembly system which would be copied in principle for the MP38 and MP40 submachine guns.
The Spanish use of the EMP dates back to the Spanish Civil War, when both the Republican and Nationalist forces purchased them.The design was well enough liked that after Franco's victory, the La Coruna arsenal arranged a license to produce them in 9mm Largo for Spanish military use. This was designated the MP41/44, and that's what we are looking at today. The main mechanical difference between the Spanish and German guns is a plunger type safety located between the trigger guard and front grip.
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That gun was popularly called "naranjero" . They were popular amongst bank robbers in Spain until the 80's even though many were deactivated.
Miguel Ángel Simón Fernández , Hola Miguel vaya uno a saber el origen de ciertas denominaciones. Aqui en Argentina, antiguamente,se les llamaba así a los trabucos cuya boca de fuego se endanchaba como un embudo. Ya que, según se decía, algunos, podian alojar una naranja en él. Un cordial saludo !!!
@@herberar el nombre de "naranjero" es porque la madera usada viene de el árbol que da las naranjas, el naranjero, por eso la madera de este subfusil, si no era teñida, era de color anaranjado.
What does naranjero mean ?
@@garypack1709 the orange fruit tree
@@waharadome Thanks
"Guns and Stuff Inspectorate" Love it.
A common myth is that the Treaty of Versailles banned the production and use of the MP 18 by Germany. In fact, the treaty only limited the number of machine guns that Germany was permitted to stockpile, and no mention is made of machine pistols or the MP 18 in particular. This is from the wikipidia mp18 page.I myself grew up in A Coruña and went to school right next to the place where factory of this and the cemet were build.
Ese colegio que dices es Peñaredonda? Yo también estudié allí unos años, aunque soy de Ferrol.
First time I heard a non-spanish speaker actually do quite good our ñ sound when you said La Coruña.
Cheers!
Ermas and local copies of M28s were known in Spain as "naranjeros" (orange trees), apparently because some were built in the orange producing region of Valencia, although no one knows for sure. Some copies were also produced by collectivised industries in Cataluña for anarchists forces, who were quite fond of them, as they had used them even before the war. One of these "naranjeros" (I don´t know the exact model) was responsible for the death of famous anarchist leader Buenaventura Durruti, when one of his bodyguards dropped the gun and it discharged while they were exiting his staff car, impacting Durruti´s hip and exiting through his shoulder.
what worth this gun in spain?
can you contact me arturs.orenits@gmail.com
Being sent to war with two mags for your SMG, it's good that it had a semi selector.
That beefy frontgrip screams hidden booze flask 😁
Very cool gun. My father used to own one of these, albeit it being deactivated. Goes to show that "tacticool" front grips aren't that new of a thing :)
This Channel is very unhealthy for me to watch because it just turns into "oh damn that's so cool and old and weird and I want it" then I remember that most of these cost more than my parent's house in which I am living because I cannot afford to move out. (Sigh) I guess it's back to squinting really hard at my current guns until they look like something cooler...
You're getting guns? (California)
@@Coastal_Cruzer I love guns, but I rather not have them if the downside is ANY IDIOT can get them too.
@@trauko1388 I was making a joke about california's bs gun laws basically
Apparently, on May 10th 1940, during the German invasion of the Netherlands , the Dutch prince Bernhard used an Erma EMP to fire on German transport planes flying over The Hague. There's a picture of him holding one. No idea where he got it, the Dutch army wasn't a regular user of the EMP. In 2016 it ended up in a Dutch war museum.
Anyone else feel like making your own gun after watching all of these ...
ash man a little. Especially after his video on the Luty designed smgs.
I'm actually building a 12 guge double barreled shotgun, kinda lime the metro 2033 one
ash man I'm almost done with the one I've been making it sort of looks like one of those luti's but it's closed bolt and hammer fired. The only gun parts used are a sten gun barrel and sten gun magazine everything else is from the junk in my backyard. I don't even have a drill press just a grinder, welder ,files and Dremel.
I did get a friend of mine that has a lathe to drill the hole through the center of the bolt though
yes especially after Olympic Arms' OA-98 AR Pistol that intrigued me, because that could be good base for bullpup AR design just better idea would be to eject cartridge cases from bottom like in Kel-Tec RDB. Kel-Tec RDB just have one fatal flaw that if your rifle get mud in ejection port than you get malfunction, so in future AR bullpup design would be nice to see some sort of rotating cylinder as ejection port cover, that help to protect rifle firing mechanism from mud, ideal would be that cylinder(or just part of the cylinder) rotate to eject cartage case every time when rifle is fired.
ps
Sad thing that i'm from EU and here we must go through way of the cross to get license to make firearms...
That slick disassembly made my morning.
The nickname of this gun in Spanish was "naranjero" orange tree in english, because apparently, the wood came from this tree. In Spanish there is a only way to pronounce a word, so if you know the rules of pronunciation in Spanish you could read the word correctly. The MP guns made in Spain can easily distinct because the orange tree wood es darker from anyone either. There is a historical controversy about this gun. There were eyewitness that said this gun kill, by accident Durruti, the most charismatic Spaniard anarchist leader because had not safety mechanism. In the autopsy they found a 9 mm "largo" bullet.
What this gun is worth ?
I seem to recall reading about a rather vast German program of arms development and testing in the Soviet Union in the 1920s to sidestep Versailles restrictions. That would make it less surprising that the Soviets evaluated the VMP.
Did that testing & development extend to small arms? I thought the German activities in Soviet Russia were all about tank testing.
Now that, that is a beautiful piece of weaponry.
Somebody who pulled both triggers in 20 century probably said: "Oh no, my gun gone wild!"
Ian's my spirit animal
Thank you for such good videos on the history and technology of firearms.
6:00 Your pronunciation is spot on, Ian! Really quite impressive.
I love the Erma EMP
Looking like a beefed up sten, lovely gun, like to see it up against the mp40 &the sten gun!!!please please please!!!!, do it!!!, Stu..
So opposing sides in Spain were using the same gun in different 9mm calibers. What would happen if you tried to load 9mm Para into a 9mm Largo weapon, or vice versa?
largo wont go into para as casing is 4mm longer ! however not sure the other way round
With fix firing ping you can't use 9x19 round in 9x23 chamber, too space, maybe with other mechanics and a long firing pin....
Here before BFV launches
I so want these to be
remade. And every other gun you do videos on. It's sad will never see guns that well made from that Era today. It hurts my soul to know stuff from them days get scraped for Walmart gift cards.
Homage to Catalina, the first Orwell book I read
Another great video on another forgotten (or at least unknown to me) weapon
Golf club reviews in the suggested videos
Now it's back to normal.
Would be cool to see more Q&A's, like your videos man! Always quality
The spanish guns produced in La coruña have the "guardia civil" logo on the rear of the receiver it and the fire selector is marked "A" for full auto ant "T"for semi. but is very hard to find a matching gun here in Spain (and of course all deactivated in the 70s)
Is it worth something ?
RUclips is really getting good at recognizing gun videos and enforcing their taboo on them. The only videos in my suggestion bar on the side are "Tandem Hang Gliding with Sonora Wings" and "Initial experiments with the new quadcopter camera", both by forgotten weapons. No other videos about guns.
Edit: Now my suggestion bar is full with gun videos from forgotten weapons, too. Just seemed odd, that the two videos suggested are nearly the only videos on this channel not about guns. Maybe gun videos are only excluded from the suggestions based on tags, but can still be suggested if the audiences of both videos are similar? That might explain why it takes a while before gun videos show up in the suggestions.
No the purge is on
It's most likely a matter of tags in the video and such....
Same here.
moiseman just tell yourself that as the coils tighten
It's because Ians videos are in "educational" category
There are two conflicts I've studied so far that took me some time to fully grasp the intricacies. The Spanish Civil-War and the Yugoslavian conflicts of the 1990s. I know more about the latter than the former currently but I'd say it's a better reflection of its time period than even the Second World War. Civil conflicts co-opted for proxy means usually are very good reflections of the times in which they take place. I'm sure the Syrian/Iraqi conflicts will be just as representative of our times as the Spanish Civil War was for those times.
Germany and USSR actually had a reasonably good relationship (especially on the trade side) during the Weimer years. Given how both were economically isolated, albeit to different degrees, by the rest of Europe it was mostly pragmatism but the ideological differences were less stark during this period as well.
Oh Im the 7th commenting, I love when we (spanish) copy german weapons, spanish versions of nearly the best weapons.
Ian, your pronunciation of Einzel and Dauerfeuer is spot on, but your Umlauts need a bit of work ;-)
Your German pronounciation gets better with every video 👍
Maybe a little advice: look up the German alphabet and you will see that almost every letter has the same sound in all words (almost because German is a bitch when it comes to exceptions).
Also great gun!
I imagine it Must have been quite funny to see someone grabbing the hot barrel :)
The wood vertical fore grip seems pretty forward thinking for a gun designed back then. That style and design is all the rave these days.
Thats a pretty hot piece of cold hard steel
what
Very interesting story. Sounds like there were some well-traveled weapons in Europe right before WW2 kicked off. It's interesting that designers stuck to these long designs for such a long time, with the barrel and mag well way out front. There is a lot of wasted space forward of the trigger assembly until the barrel begins. If you move the magwell just forward of the trigger like modern guns, u can save weight with a shorter receiver, have a shorter overall length due to the barrel being further back, or have a longer barrel in the same overall length. The bolt and recoil spring of this and the MP-40 are interesting. Must be a pretty good design if several firms copied it
I had been plagued until today to find the name of the rifle used in the original Planet o PDF The Apes series. (Too much time on my hands at airport lobbies I know). I had always thought that by the look and bulkiness look of the Ape rifle was the Czechoslovak CZ 52 cambered in calibre 7.62x45mm. I was going to buy one of those rifles years ago but was scared off not on the freakish feel of handling the rifle. It was like looking down a pointer stick ..Nothing curved into your hand or pressed into your position of fire with any grace or comfort. It was like aiming a pointer stick from your cheek. I found out that the rifles used in the planet of the apes movies were nothing more than 30 cal M1 carbines encased in wooden blocks of wood... wish you fellows had been able to show case a series of those firearms ... maybe take them both to a range and have fun comparing aiming and firing a broom stick and a pointer stick to planet of the apes cut outs down range
That Einzelfeuer and Dauerfeuer actually wasn't half-bad. Just pronounce the German Z as if there was a T in front of it and you're golden. Interesting story about the journey some of these guns went on, and not a terrible design for the 1920s. Kind of "interesting" takedown method on the whole, but pulling the trigger to do it used to be far more common than it is these days, I guess.
Best application of the KISS principle of disassembling a submachinegun I've seen so far, and a German designed it? Damn...
That mag looks pretty straightforward surprised the Froggies could not produce those
John Stacy froggies?
that Guy Slang for French.
Time, materials and workforce. At that moment they were busy making MAS and changing Berthiers.
PobortzaPl it would take 2 Die Makers 1-2 days to make the dies and fixtures and be pumping them out 100 a day...
Too complex a procurement process, too time consuming. No doubt underway when they suddenly lost the war.
Im far more interested in the history around the Spanish civil war than ww2 because of the CNT FAI and mujeres libres
I bought a de milled one for 12 bucks when my dad was stationed in Spain in 1967, but my parents wouldn't let me bring it back to the States the next year. I was nine when I bought it...😂
This weapon was added in a videogame Call of Duty: WWII.
My first thought upon seeing the gun on the table in front of Ian was that it was a little odd for an SMG to have a set trigger.
First it was French rifles now its German sub machine guns nice to see Ian doing a gun tour of Europe
Yay, a non-garbled pronunciation of "Feuer"! Much, much better that the "fewer" of before.
"the guns and stuff inspectorate" lmao
I hope Vollmer didn't have to pay Schmeisser royalties for the telescoping mainspring.
hey ian! i wrestled with my "german-ness" a few times, but wasn´t successfull this time. The "e" at the end of "Pistole" is pronounced in german. maybe you (or anybody else )find this helpfull.
keep up the amazing work!
cheers
And also "Vollmer" would be pronounced as "Follmer" in English.
That forward grip. :D
PTRS-41 anti-tank rifle preview and test next
German Guns.......German Guns ....... everywhere
88manta88 And the French?
Not surprising that the MP 38 and MP 40 owe a lot to this design since Vollmer was involved in the design of the MP 38.
Seem to recall reading somewhere that the Kriegsmarine also used these in a similar way to the Royal Navy using Lanchesters
We see a lot of submachine guns with magazines that are placed horizontally on the side. What was the logic behind that?
The mag doesn't prevent you from shooting prone.
really cool gun
Why was the magazine offset to the side? It looks awkward and as if it would get caught on things. I can't think of a benefit to it
Funny how the barrel makes up only ~1/5 of the overall length of the gun by my estimates.
Ian knows more about the Spanish civil war than spaniards...
interesting...were some of these used by Spanish Blue Division troops on the eastern front???? I'm a figurine modeller tired of using an mp40 for my ncos. thanks.
Probably not, or at least in combat units. I don't discard the use by MP units which were formed by Guardias Civiles and they used these submachine guns back in Spain.
Despite being a fully Spanish manned unit, the 250th Infantry Division (aka 'Blue Division') was integrated in the Wehrmacht and supplied with standard Wehrmacht equipment (Kar98K, MP40, MG34 and the like). Interestingly enough, Spanish soldiers liked the winter performance of Soviet weapons and whenever they had the chance to get a hand on a PPSH or a DP they did. If you are interested in modelling the subject, there is one Dragon 1/35 kit that represents four Spanish soldiers with all sort of weaponry of mixed German/Soviet origin. However, you can also find the Erma EMP at least in a Tamiya set in the same scale.
In any case, best luck with your models.
Only 2 recommendeds? Odd.
Is that barrel shroud M-Lok compatible?
Was there no hammer fired Sub Machine guns before the MP5 ???
it kinda reminds me of a Sten
España continuando el desarrollo de un artefacto alemán de nuevo.
Spain further devoloping a german arm once again.
elsoldadomarquez pues como con la CETME que es de diseño alemán
Yugoslavian Royal Army also used EMP-35. Didn't buy too many though.
You should try finding a steyr mp34, they cool af
whoa.. whoa.. whoa!! are you saying that Ian Hogg is wrong!! He said that Schmeisser had nothing to do with the development of the MP38/40. But that he only ran the company that built it. Personally, I trust you more. I'm just curious... and mildly inebriated....
Time and again I see the issue of many weapons not having a working ammunition box clip, is there a machinist out there that can explain why it's so difficult to make functional post production box clips, specially with the new age fast prototype printers made today. With the complexity of some of these weapons I would think a clip would be easy, but then I'm not a machinist.
Not sure why I thought of this, but does anyone know of any guns that have annular magazines? By that I mean imagine the gun in this video, with a drum magazine with a hole in the middle that allows it to slide over the barrel and lock in place just in front of the wooden handle bit. Know what I mean?
I understand what you mean, but am not aware of any in existence.
Tuatara something like Streetsweeper or Manville gas gun?
A submachinegun with a vertical grip/monopod and a bayonet lug? Coming soon to _Battlefield 2_ ...
battlefield 2 already exists since 2005, and isn´t supported by the developers anymore. sorry mate
He may speak about the sequel of BF1
I had think that this is a german mp.. Just looking for this gun from BFV :)
Do a video on the erma emp
Is there any chance you can get that supercool bolt-action pistol that appears in the Russian dlc of battlefield 1?
is there a bergmann mp-35 at this auction?
I notice that you keep mentioning that double stack double feed is better than double stack single feed, but when I look at my personal pistols they're all double stack single feed and they don't have the reliability issues that you bring up. Is there a reason modern double stack single feed are better than older ones?
gareth smith It's just much harder to do right I believe, more finnicky. So not a huge problem today after a hundred years of experience, in a commercial market, and with guns that aren't expected to use massive quantities of ammunition very quickly
I'm curious what pistols specifically you're referring to? And the magazines' capacities.
Fully automatic actions put a lot more stress on a feed system than semiautomatic, so I wonder if that's most of it. Additionally, the mass-production of weapons like the Sten, during wartime, means that issues of manufacturing quality have a lot more opportunity to show up; and their use by soldiers, in the conditions of a war, presents even more stress on reliability. Finally, higher-capacity magazines like those used in submachineguns necessarily exert more force with their springs, which in turn increases friction between cartridges and between cartridges and the magazine, so that might also be a factor.
They are also easier to reload. I think most of the pistols have single feed because the magazine is narrow at the top and leaves more space for the slide and the trigger mechanism.
Submachinegun Naranjero :)
Is the barrel permanently installed?
good morning sir
I think this gun is in Netflix's "Money Heist" season 5, held by the special force commander Sagasta.
It is :) Although one hell of an odd choice for a modern day special forces soldier lmao XD
@@FullyLoad3d.556 Apparently Spanish commandos have the freedom to choose their firearms across time and space, no complaints though, wouldn't be brought to this wonderful video otherwise. :)
@@raysun5889 No, they don't. Even if they have personal sidearms, they stick to the standard issue guns. Though they have a pretty wide array to choose from. Mp5 SD6, UMPs, MP7s and P90s; just for the SMG department.
preciosa
Well, for an early SMG this thing looks remarkable simple to build. The lineage to the MP38/40 is also clear, but there are steps missing. Steps like the MK36, or the EMP36. The MP38/40 seems to be a bit of an agglomeration of both the MK36 and EMP36. Both extremely rare guns. That raises the question if we will see either of them along side expected suspects like the MP28, MP34 and MP35. ;)
Did you get to test fire it?
Why would someone carry their gun with a loaded magazine and the bolt down?
11:32 is there an FPS where you can do that intentionally? Because there totally should be!!!
Looks like a sequel to STEN
Except it's earlier than the sten
Does it have a fixed firing pin?
Владимир Грачев 14:04
are there any double feed single-stack magazines
Nope.
someone should get on that
why? Double feed is more complex to design than single feed, and single-stack tends to make magazines bigger for the same capacity. Neither of those things are advantageous to the designer.
Conversely, the extra capacity of a double-stack and the simplicity of a single feed *are* advantageous, which is why double stack single-feed mags exist, even though it makes the magazine a little more complicated.
cos then Ian can Discuss it and make a video about why its a forgotten weapon, also just for variety
Im from Madrid and a friend´s dad of mine has one of these at home hanging on the wall. Its gotten the barrel drilled tho.. what a shame lmao
note: the dad is, to this day a civil guard
Mega-interresting. Thanks.
Yeah should make a first person shooter about these weapons
"Naranjero" o "Coruña", 1942
9mm lechuga
Spanish Commies: 'I know, we'll use 9 Para so we can scavenge ammo from the Fascists who will certainly be using 9 Para'
Spanish Fascists: 'I know, we'll use 9 Largo so we can scavenge et cetera'
Naranjero (y)
06:44
FORE! isn't that one screams when one is about to hit someone with a gold ball? For some odd reason I Am getting inundated by gold iron reviews....blehhh....misuse of good steel!
I love this gun because the movie libertarias
VIVA LA REVOLUCION