For anyone interested in the piece Ärr that is playing in the beginning and end of this clip, here is the Spotify link - open.spotify.com/track/5lkPpl1Nn4PEyWSIffkmNK?si=1499ebca63d34622
I'm sure they are all proficient musicians and great improvisers... but there is just ZERO chemistry here... The organ player and the electric man are just doing their self-absorbed atonal/arhythmic thing. Thomas Haake is trying to understand what the hell they are doing and wants to grove with them, but can't... And Lövgren just gives up after a few seconds of nonsense noise and is only focussed on Haake from that point on. I really feel for them..
Yeah, Thomas is like "come on guys, are you even trying?" He's known to like Jazz and stuff so it's up his sleeve but watching him here is like watching a physicist surrounded by engineers
Yeah, the more I've listened the less I hear it. It doesn't have the sonic density that Portal is known for. Must be certain combinations of notes that made me think so. Still good stuff, though.
EDIT: I've messed up... Big time. I thought the performance with Tomas and Dick was an excerpt of Ärr, while it was just a jam thrown together after the premiere of the actual piece. Whoopsies. I should get my glasses next time shouldn't I. Well, everything I've said below about the piece is, ehm, pretty much irrelevant. I do think there are some nice insights on contemporary music and just other stuff thrown in there though. Enjoy! --------------------------------------- Look, I'm all for contemporary music, having experienced it live both as a spectator and as a performer. Who knows, maybe this, live, sounded a hell of a lot better than through a RUclips video - and I think this is the case. However, a couple things bother me. Firstly, the composer claims Ärr (this track) is inspired by Meshuggah's Bleed; how is this related to Bleed in any specific way? The dissonance? No, Bleed is actually one of Meshuggah's most consonant pieces. The violence? Both rhythmic and intentional violences don't match the song's. In fact, having played (on drums) and listened to Bleed many times, I got to experience the series of emotions you go through the 6-7 minute marathon. Found none of them here. TLDR, this could've been related to any Meshuggah song, as there's isn't any direct quote to Bleed. Nonetheless, all these statements above are at least semi-subjective, and solely based on an excerpt of the piece - that, again, I only get to experience digitally. Something stands as a fact though: the composer, publisher of this video, has chosen to put some critics' reviews just after the excerpt ends rather than in the description, making sure that viewers understand the thought that went into Ärr and the success it received. I wasn't even done processing the piece, and I don't think anyone was. Imo, it diminishes the performance's credibility even more, as the publisher is too unsecure, too afraid to release this as it is (along with its context, why not) on RUclips, and face the casual viewer's criticism - that isn't so casual as they, one, have most likely heard of Meshuggah before in order to reach this video, and two, sit through contemporary classical music (well this is the term in French, not sure if this is its correct translation to English, but who cares). I believe art, especially contemporary art including contemporary music should speak for itself. It's very normal that a piece such as Ärr has a negative reception, the opposite would have been fishy actually. It's not normal not to let the viewer decide whether or not they liked (the excerpt of) the performance, and I think this either hides a clickbaity element, making sure Meshuggah is in the title too - and not the organ player, or phenomenal snobbishness. Either would be very sad to see, as all contemporary-orientated artists I've worked with till now are very down-to-earth people that don't really care about the size of their audience. I'm not saying it's all the composer/publisher's fault either: despite being a big fan of Meshuggah, and having Tomas Haake as one of my drumming idols, I still don't understand nor like the Meshuggah members' playing in this track. Not a single reference to Bleed in their parts, when a few hertas by Tomas could've lightened up everything and got the quartet going the right direction. I encourage every single one of you, reading this comment (thanks btw) and who has never listened to Meshuggah before to do it - now. They have their own contemporary compositions too: Catch Thirtythree and I (capital i), both pretty accessible, heavy and memorable. These two albums aren't often classified as 'contemporary metal', in fact most people and critics would just say 'progressive metal', but their structures are too unique and their flow too unique to be seen as prog imo, and they're certainly nowhere near the Tool-ish definition of 'post metal', as they're still violent af. I forgot where I wanted to go with this but aye, if you've learned something from this comment, that would be my greatest pleasure. And again, thanks for reading.
Dear Salim, thanks for your comment - and even more thanks for your updated comment;-) I'm glad you kept the original comment though, since as you say - there are things there that make sense, if not in the way you thought first;-) As for commenting on your first "criticism" I just want to say that even when I use material from others (I use Swedish folk music a lot for instance) as a base for my work, I almost never quote it as it is. I use it the low level building blocks and do my own music from it. In Ärr I used the rhythmic patterns, the curvature of the riff and the melodic parts of the slow middle section as my starting material. Hopefully we will be able to release a recoding of this piece soon - it's been in the planning for several years, but we haven't been able to finalize it yet. All the best /Jesper
@@JesperNordinComposer Hello, and thank you for taking the time answering my concerns! After realizing my mistake, the intro and outro of the video suddenly made much more sense: they both really evoke Bleed and, as you've said, its cyclic riffs. I dug a little further and found the score of the piece (Edition Peters), and as drummer I couldn't help but jump straight into sight reading the 3 percussions + timpani lines. Bars 218 through 257 are a journey alone, only starting with the 7:5:3 polyrhythmical shenanigans to exchange 11/8 bars at the end. The strings work sounds pretty epic too. I must confess I haven't had time to read it all in detail yet but the reviews are definitely justified - and their presence at the end of the video too, as they're not about, well, the jam. My apologies for my initial excessive reaction. Bleed was my introduction to both metal and highly technical-demanding music when I was like 11, therefore it holds a special place for me. I would be eager to listen to Ärr in its entirety, that's for sure, but I'll be checking some of your other work anyway. Once again, thank you for your response, and happy holidays!
if the electronic sounds were set to 30% of their current sound it wouldve been much more digestible and much less noisy, and im no producer or composer, but i dont think it wouldve taken from the chaotic elements of the composition.
There's too much confusion between the instruments at first. The organ could have been better if it was more atmospheric and less in the forefront, it should have accented the other instruments. The electronic guy could have been a lot less in everyone else's fucking way. Tomas and Dick were perfect, of course.
It is my orchestral piece "Ärr" based on Meshuggahs song Bleed that was premiered by the Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra just before our impro session. I'm glad you liked it!
Jesper Nordin It is absolutely awesome. I love this cacophonic music with orchestra like tunnig. It is like something that define human meaning. I also love the Cell movie soundtrack from Howard Shore. I am an amateur composer and it is very inspirating piece of art. Unfortunately i have no options to get your music in my coutry. Thank you for response.
matodrummer Thanks a lot! This piece is not recorded yet (since it was recently premiered) but a lot of my other orchestral and ensemble music is available on iTunes and Spotify - you can find links on my webpage www.jespernordin.com /Jesper
Jesper Nordin When do you think we will get to hear a recorded version of Ärr? I am very excited to hear the full version of an orchestral piece inspired by my favorite song!
alex nordlund Hi alex nordlund, there are some plans, but nothing is final yet. The orchestral world has a long planning cycle, so it's probably not until 2016 or so. Hopefully I'll be able to post the full piece online before that, but it's tricky with rights and stuff.
+TOOLosophy Right now there is no commercial recording, but a recording is planned so hopefully it will be out within a year or two (it takes time in the classical music world;-). All the best /Jesper
Hi, sorry for my late reply... It's been pushed forward but is still in the planning. It was done in concert again a few times during 2016, but will not be recorded until 2019 as it looks now. The slow process of the orchestral world...
Jag är också intresserad av att höra "Ärr". Jag hoppas att du kan få rättigheter att ha den på din hemsida någon gång i framtiden. :) Verkar vara ett mäktigt stycke.
wow that fucking sucked lol It felt like the times I am jamming with new people and everyone is just playing their own thing and nothing fits in itself. Worse than free jazz
What the hack was happening here ??? So much mess and random noises... Even Tomas and Dick from Meshuggah didn't manage to save this total disaster ! Stoooop iiiiiit !!! Aaaaaaargh
I'm a huge meshuggah fan But this is really horrible and unmusical. You can only hear the drums and the electronics. the drums are great and I'm amazed even a capable drummer like Haake was able to keep a beat with all the nonsense going on. The organ (when audible) was all dissonance to the point where it disrupted the piece
I actually prefer this than Meshuggah's recent release of "Violent Sleep of Reason." This kind of sounds like Swans, I'd even argue and say that Meshuggah need to be doing challenging things to push their sound forward, because IMO their sound has been stagnant for about 10 years now if not longer....
Isaac dissonance I'm only praising this for at least seeing the players from Meshuggah actually be creatively pushed out of their comfort zones that's all
Electronic guy doesn't fit ok. He mess up everything, and he's really loud, distracting others, no good for jamming... Guitar even didn't know where to play because of complete sound fill of electronic nonsense, needs a better jammer.
"What the Haake did i just watch?"
Enough Internet for today.
For anyone interested in the piece Ärr that is playing in the beginning and end of this clip, here is the Spotify link - open.spotify.com/track/5lkPpl1Nn4PEyWSIffkmNK?si=1499ebca63d34622
Did I miss something? That was the most cracked thing I've ever heard.
The double snare hit at 5:48 pretty much sums up Haake's thoughts about the whole ordeal
The first minute sounded like stuff falling over in a garage. Good thing I kept watching
I'm sure they are all proficient musicians and great improvisers... but there is just ZERO chemistry here... The organ player and the electric man are just doing their self-absorbed atonal/arhythmic thing. Thomas Haake is trying to understand what the hell they are doing and wants to grove with them, but can't... And Lövgren just gives up after a few seconds of nonsense noise and is only focussed on Haake from that point on. I really feel for them..
Yeah, Thomas is like "come on guys, are you even trying?"
He's known to like Jazz and stuff so it's up his sleeve but watching him here is like watching a physicist surrounded by engineers
maybe you just havent delved into more avant garde music
In my opinion, haake is steadily outpacing the new breed machine. He says oh so you want to take my music and make it yours? Try this asshats. BAM
@@JustusVidyo THIS!!!
@@DVDFRMN brilliant roast
True Ayahuasca Experience
I watched the first 30 seconds and I already agree :D
This shall be my wedding song.
Eye contact between organ and drums would have dramatically changed this
pls PLS PLS do an orchestral catch 33!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! this will be the ''rite of spring'' of our century!!!!!!!
+poko “HighEndKill” piko Actually I am working on that. Dont know who is going to play it, but I will make the orchestra "Catch 33" for sure.
Yury Schleifman keep me posted
how's the progress on orchestral Catch33?
progress?
@@jurischleifman9184 its been 4 years yuri
Intermission at a Primus show...
This concept is great.
Interesting, it's like Meshuggah meets John Zorn with a little bit of PORTAL thrown into the mix.
all great things
CadPCrayon I don't really hear any Portal, it's not thick enough
Yeah, the more I've listened the less I hear it. It doesn't have the sonic density that Portal is known for. Must be certain combinations of notes that made me think so. Still good stuff, though.
Excellent call re. Zorn & Portal
@@tobytruman33 man i’ve seen you in so many comment sections lmao
beginning sounds like a leaf blower
Using his Lignum Drums snare in this concert :) made in Belgium :)
I need more...
EDIT: I've messed up... Big time. I thought the performance with Tomas and Dick was an excerpt of Ärr, while it was just a jam thrown together after the premiere of the actual piece. Whoopsies. I should get my glasses next time shouldn't I. Well, everything I've said below about the piece is, ehm, pretty much irrelevant. I do think there are some nice insights on contemporary music and just other stuff thrown in there though. Enjoy!
---------------------------------------
Look, I'm all for contemporary music, having experienced it live both as a spectator and as a performer. Who knows, maybe this, live, sounded a hell of a lot better than through a RUclips video - and I think this is the case. However, a couple things bother me.
Firstly, the composer claims Ärr (this track) is inspired by Meshuggah's Bleed; how is this related to Bleed in any specific way? The dissonance? No, Bleed is actually one of Meshuggah's most consonant pieces. The violence? Both rhythmic and intentional violences don't match the song's. In fact, having played (on drums) and listened to Bleed many times, I got to experience the series of emotions you go through the 6-7 minute marathon. Found none of them here. TLDR, this could've been related to any Meshuggah song, as there's isn't any direct quote to Bleed.
Nonetheless, all these statements above are at least semi-subjective, and solely based on an excerpt of the piece - that, again, I only get to experience digitally. Something stands as a fact though: the composer, publisher of this video, has chosen to put some critics' reviews just after the excerpt ends rather than in the description, making sure that viewers understand the thought that went into Ärr and the success it received. I wasn't even done processing the piece, and I don't think anyone was. Imo, it diminishes the performance's credibility even more, as the publisher is too unsecure, too afraid to release this as it is (along with its context, why not) on RUclips, and face the casual viewer's criticism - that isn't so casual as they, one, have most likely heard of Meshuggah before in order to reach this video, and two, sit through contemporary classical music (well this is the term in French, not sure if this is its correct translation to English, but who cares).
I believe art, especially contemporary art including contemporary music should speak for itself. It's very normal that a piece such as Ärr has a negative reception, the opposite would have been fishy actually. It's not normal not to let the viewer decide whether or not they liked (the excerpt of) the performance, and I think this either hides a clickbaity element, making sure Meshuggah is in the title too - and not the organ player, or phenomenal snobbishness. Either would be very sad to see, as all contemporary-orientated artists I've worked with till now are very down-to-earth people that don't really care about the size of their audience.
I'm not saying it's all the composer/publisher's fault either: despite being a big fan of Meshuggah, and having Tomas Haake as one of my drumming idols, I still don't understand nor like the Meshuggah members' playing in this track. Not a single reference to Bleed in their parts, when a few hertas by Tomas could've lightened up everything and got the quartet going the right direction. I encourage every single one of you, reading this comment (thanks btw) and who has never listened to Meshuggah before to do it - now.
They have their own contemporary compositions too: Catch Thirtythree and I (capital i), both pretty accessible, heavy and memorable. These two albums aren't often classified as 'contemporary metal', in fact most people and critics would just say 'progressive metal', but their structures are too unique and their flow too unique to be seen as prog imo, and they're certainly nowhere near the Tool-ish definition of 'post metal', as they're still violent af.
I forgot where I wanted to go with this but aye, if you've learned something from this comment, that would be my greatest pleasure. And again, thanks for reading.
Dear Salim, thanks for your comment - and even more thanks for your updated comment;-) I'm glad you kept the original comment though, since as you say - there are things there that make sense, if not in the way you thought first;-)
As for commenting on your first "criticism" I just want to say that even when I use material from others (I use Swedish folk music a lot for instance) as a base for my work, I almost never quote it as it is. I use it the low level building blocks and do my own music from it. In Ärr I used the rhythmic patterns, the curvature of the riff and the melodic parts of the slow middle section as my starting material. Hopefully we will be able to release a recoding of this piece soon - it's been in the planning for several years, but we haven't been able to finalize it yet.
All the best /Jesper
@@JesperNordinComposer
Hello, and thank you for taking the time answering my concerns!
After realizing my mistake, the intro and outro of the video suddenly made much more sense: they both really evoke Bleed and, as you've said, its cyclic riffs. I dug a little further and found the score of the piece (Edition Peters), and as drummer I couldn't help but jump straight into sight reading the 3 percussions + timpani lines. Bars 218 through 257 are a journey alone, only starting with the 7:5:3 polyrhythmical shenanigans to exchange 11/8 bars at the end. The strings work sounds pretty epic too. I must confess I haven't had time to read it all in detail yet but the reviews are definitely justified - and their presence at the end of the video too, as they're not about, well, the jam.
My apologies for my initial excessive reaction. Bleed was my introduction to both metal and highly technical-demanding music when I was like 11, therefore it holds a special place for me.
I would be eager to listen to Ärr in its entirety, that's for sure, but I'll be checking some of your other work anyway.
Once again, thank you for your response, and happy holidays!
1. Yes 2. Yes and finally 3. Yes please and thank you!
4:47 *drops drum stick. "nah, throwing the stick like that is just part of the avant garde act, ya know"
Awesome!!
didn't quite go so well. smoke a joint, dim the lights. you're welcome.
if the electronic sounds were set to 30% of their current sound it wouldve been much more digestible and much less noisy, and im no producer or composer, but i dont think it wouldve taken from the chaotic elements of the composition.
Sublime!
This is like Fredrik’s special defects only it’s just the weird parts in between proper parts. Not sure If I like it which is cool?
One must love chaos before one can achieve order. It’s science.
I kept waiting for the song to start, tbh.
This would of been even better if the two guys making noise got the hell out of there...
Free jazz :D cool
have you heard of Tim Minchin? his sketch on free jazz is hilarious in my opinion. your comment made me laugh a bit haha
Not sure if I'm getting a Bleed vibe from any of this. More like an even weirder than normal John Zorn piece.
Why does it sound like a dying hoover
Haake casually dropping his right stick at 4:47 :)
they are real musicans thats why so tech and fucking insane
take away the dude with the computer and this would actually be good
There's too much confusion between the instruments at first. The organ could have been better if it was more atmospheric and less in the forefront, it should have accented the other instruments. The electronic guy could have been a lot less in everyone else's fucking way. Tomas and Dick were perfect, of course.
what music is playing at beginnig and at the end? It is incredible. Please tell me
It is my orchestral piece "Ärr" based on Meshuggahs song Bleed that was premiered by the Stockholm Philharmonic Orchestra just before our impro session. I'm glad you liked it!
Jesper Nordin It is absolutely awesome. I love this cacophonic music with orchestra like tunnig. It is like something that define human meaning. I also love the Cell movie soundtrack from Howard Shore. I am an amateur composer and it is very inspirating piece of art. Unfortunately i have no options to get your music in my coutry. Thank you for response.
matodrummer Thanks a lot! This piece is not recorded yet (since it was recently premiered) but a lot of my other orchestral and ensemble music is available on iTunes and Spotify - you can find links on my webpage www.jespernordin.com /Jesper
Jesper Nordin When do you think we will get to hear a recorded version of Ärr? I am very excited to hear the full version of an orchestral piece inspired by my favorite song!
alex nordlund Hi alex nordlund, there are some plans, but nothing is final yet. The orchestral world has a long planning cycle, so it's probably not until 2016 or so. Hopefully I'll be able to post the full piece online before that, but it's tricky with rights and stuff.
Add as ringtone.
Is there better audio of this? Sounds like the drums are doubled. I can't really hear whats going on
this is fucking hilarious 😂
Where's Mike? because this has Mike written all over him!
More of this!! Superb sound but I´d prefer both keys to be heard just a bit better!
Where can I listen to the original orchestral piece "Ärr"? Thank you!
+TOOLosophy Right now there is no commercial recording, but a recording is planned so hopefully it will be out within a year or two (it takes time in the classical music world;-). All the best /Jesper
Thanks for the reply! Can't wait to hear it. It's certainly worth the long wait
Hello there! Any updates about the recording process?
Hi, sorry for my late reply... It's been pushed forward but is still in the planning. It was done in concert again a few times during 2016, but will not be recorded until 2019 as it looks now. The slow process of the orchestral world...
@@JesperNordinComposer man, can you put the link here when its done? Thanks for this video by the way)
How is this related to bleed? I don't get it.
My god from the sky
John Zorn would be proud
Yeah...
OK ... this was very trippy. 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻 To bad the mix wasn't ideal for hearing it the best. 🤘🏻😎🤘🏻
I’m so confused
Time signature?
Time signature? Where we're going we don't need no time signature.
hehe
π
That son of a bitch stole my drum set!
Jag är också intresserad av att höra "Ärr". Jag hoppas att du kan få rättigheter att ha den på din hemsida någon gång i framtiden. :) Verkar vara ett mäktigt stycke.
Nu finns den äntligen online @TemalCageman - här är Spotifylänken. open.spotify.com/track/5lkPpl1Nn4PEyWSIffkmNK?si=1499ebca63d34622
@@JesperNordinComposer
wow that fucking sucked lol
It felt like the times I am jamming with new people and everyone is just playing their own thing and nothing fits in itself. Worse than free jazz
What the hack was happening here ??? So much mess and random noises... Even Tomas and Dick from Meshuggah didn't manage to save this total disaster ! Stoooop iiiiiit !!! Aaaaaaargh
is this a really bad joke...?
Awful electronics, waste of a great opportunity
Finns ärr att få tag på?
Den är planerad att spelas in under 2018, men tyvärr inte än så länge.
Hej @TheUnQuake. Nu finns den äntligen online - här är Spotifylänken. open.spotify.com/track/5lkPpl1Nn4PEyWSIffkmNK?si=1499ebca63d34622
Cool now bring Armin Van Beuren and Skrillex yeah? Hell bring in the Kitaro guy from japan too 😅
Sorry Meshuggah but Fantomasing is hard.
Haha
Sounds like that JAZZ... shit.
I'm a huge meshuggah fan But this is really horrible and unmusical. You can only hear the drums and the electronics. the drums are great and I'm amazed even a capable drummer like Haake was able to keep a beat with all the nonsense going on. The organ (when audible) was all dissonance to the point where it disrupted the piece
Yeah fire that dude and just hire meshuggah.
I actually prefer this than Meshuggah's recent release of "Violent Sleep of Reason." This kind of sounds like Swans, I'd even argue and say that Meshuggah need to be doing challenging things to push their sound forward, because IMO their sound has been stagnant for about 10 years now if not longer....
Kyle West this is nonsense....and im a fantomas fan....
Isaac dissonance I'm only praising this for at least seeing the players from Meshuggah actually be creatively pushed out of their comfort zones that's all
You're an idiot tho so...
sounds as balls, I mean the organ is inaudible and the bass sounds like a fart
Jazz
Somebody should've just farted into the mic...wow would've been some avant garde shit!
I would've added *polyrhythmic farting but that implies too much order...
ВЫТАЩИТЕ МЕНЯ ИЗ ПЕТЛИ!!!!
Haake and løvgren is just trying their hardest to play with them and groove but just cant, just noise and lack of chemistry
Christopher Maute
that was vile! or evil?!
poko piko - It was live.
...😦😦🤔😲😬
Electronic guy doesn't fit ok. He mess up everything, and he's really loud, distracting others, no good for jamming... Guitar even didn't know where to play because of complete sound fill of electronic nonsense, needs a better jammer.
that's bass not guitar, do not try to sound like you understand something of music if you don't even recognize the instruments
i disagree
@@skumm420 I play bass, 8 string guitar and drums. I have mistakes, a LOT of them, I just wrote quickly I suppose.
Da fuq
Wtf am I listening to
free improviation
This what what happens when you abandon standards for beauty. Truly awful.
Pretty messy
this is awful, with zero chemistry and poor volume control.
Love ol Thomas but wtf is this garbage 🤢🤮
With all due respect, that was … not good … at all 😂
thanks i hate it
Sad to say but this was horribly bad
I'm gay