HexTrak Update: One Universal Hexagon Module.
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- In this video I talk about viewer/subscriber input on the HexTrak project, and how it has driven me to come up with a single, universal hexagon module for both straight and curved track, as well as some switching potential! Thanks!
Single-sized hexagons work better, overall. I noticed that there’s room for 2 curved tracks on a single hexagon, connecting 4 sides. This brings up a few ideas:
1. Make a hexagon with 2 curves. This could serve where the track loops back close to itself in the middle of your track plan.
2. If there’s a 60 degree crossing available, and the straight pieces to fit, make a hexagon with a crossing.
3. If there’s places where room is tight and scenery doesn’t matter, you can put a few curves on half-hexagons (cut from corner to corner). This breaks with the “single shape” idea, but would still fit the regular hexagon grid.
Great ideas. T-Trak has done something similar to #1 as what they call a "star junction".
Fantastic! This is the Railroad extension of Settlers of Catan!😅
Good update. I got very inspired of the last one. But I use Märklin C-track (HO) so I had to figure things out for myself. I got a plate a bit larger: 291mm radius. (11 29/64 inches). And I have the possiblility to plase 3 tracks side by side. And three different curves. So it is possible to make a station with three tracks.
Hey, would you be open to sharing which components you used? I'm exploring ways to copy this with Trix C-track, which is the 2-rail DC/DCC variant of Märklin.
Currently my first annoyance is the discontinuation of the short adapter tracks they used to do. You could link to Fleischmann or Peco Code 83 which gave a lot more options for track and switching.
@@inthestudy I have not actually tried it for real yet (I have a paper template where I hav tried them). But from november I have time to play around. But here is what I found out: side to side is 500mm (diameter is 583mm). The curve is two 24130 or 24230 or 24330, depending on the curve you want or all of them if you want three trackside by side. the strait ones: two 24071 and one 24188 and one 24172. If you want a turnout: 24611/24612 + 24172+ two 24071 and a 24224. from one to three tracks: 24630 and two 24224 one 24172 and six 24071. if you use Scarm I might be able to send what I got.
the only "addition" I would consider would be having either the base or the track bed elevated in some fashion so that you'd be able to do things like embankments and bridges in future.
Great concept. I would like to see more about the trains you’re building. Looks verry nice.
Again, brilliant. T-Trak, in its intended form, is a small number of module styles. Then it came to America, and we do what we do with simple concepts.
The new size is excellent. Allows for track and a good bit of scenery. I'd like to see a tutorial on locomotives and rolling stock as well as a build. Keep up the good work!
You can get the turnout to work with unitrack. Put a 29mm straight section, then the compact turnout, then use a 15 degree 216mm radius section on the curved diverging side and another 29mm section and it should line up just about perfect I think. You can use a 64 mm and a 29mm section on the straight side of the turnout to get pretty close to the right length. I think you end up 2mm short or something so may not have quite enough spacing, but it might still work. could always cut down a longer straight section with a dremel tool as well if that doesn't work. I may have to play with this design. It is very interesting.
Cool, I will look into these options!
If it's about 2mm short, couldn't you use two 33mm sections instead?
The straight section works out, it’s getting the turnout to terminate right at the edge, dead center, that’s the problem.
Flex track though! 🤷♂️
@@TabletopRailroad ah too bad. I only tried it out in anyrail so my measurements weren’t precise apparently. Anyway Kato is coming out with a new flex track system that has new connectors. That slip under the end of the flex track for connecting to other modules. This would probably work really well in this setup. I saw it here: ruclips.net/video/Ct4mDQZHqhk/видео.htmlsi=BcOdQo0ing_a72f_
The universal hex is better. The curve section allows enough room for a larger building or scenery element.
The main thing I thought of with the buildings is to make modules that are just buildings. Maybe even ones that the buildings themselves are modular in a sense and can be mixed and matched to create tons of different scenes
Just watched the first few videos, and my kneejerk reaction was that the odd sizes was an opportunity lost. Great to see you going for a standard. And I had convinced myself that I don’t have space for a layout… Watching your vids may have been expensive! Cheers and thanks for sharing.
You can easily experiment with this by cutting the hexagons from craft foam board.
Came here directly after the algorithms sent me to your original video - my first thought was to have universal hexes - apart from anything else that makes junctions easy* - and I saw the comment tread about that, ending with "I've fixed it, new video coming soon. Went to the channel page, new video loaded 25mins ago...
*just got to the end of the video, I'm not familiar with T track, easiest way is obviously with a trunout that shares its radius with your standard curve.
They don’t make a 216mm turnout unfortunately, but I think it could be connected via flex track. I think what I’m going to do is make a double or tripple module and try to fit a switching puzzle on to it, and then just use the universal modules for the loop. 👍
Would love to see some more of your wonderful trains!👍
Fantastic system I have had to downsize in the last couple of years and looking at how to model with smaller layouts. Also being able to take my hobby on the road in our motorhome. How ever I will be looking how I can use your system in TT120 scale. Thanks for the inspiration
OK, I think I got it. A 33mm straight, the 124mm compact switch and then 2-45.5mm straights with a 15 degree 315mm radius curve section on the turnout.
It's very close! The 33mm, to the compact switch, to the 315mm curve is just off the center mark to the right. If I swap out the 33mm for a 29mm, it's just off to the left. Grrr.
@@TabletopRailroad If you are not opposed to hacking, Unitrack is very easy to modify. If you look closely there ate stake marks on the rails near one end, but not the other. cut through the roadbed, slide of the free end. Then trim the roadbed to the length you want, slide it back together, glue back together. Trim the rails with a rail nipper. Voila!
I am SO excited about this project and very happy you’re sharing the process with us. Just the idea of using hexagons vs. rectangles for modules seems like it has so much more flexibility-and as a lifelong wargamer, it’s a perfectly natural shape to my mind. I applaud you for going back to the drawing board and coming up with a single hex size; that’ll greatly simplify things in the end. I also heartily thank you for doing this work because I am also a totally non-mathematical guy and could never figure something like this out on my own. In the meantime, I’ve already found a local maker space and am chomping at the bit to make a few of these myself. 😆 I don’t think little old me can be much practical help in the journey, but I’m wholeheartedly standing by as a cheerleader! I’ll be eagerly watching your progress. Thanks again and best of luck!
Great vidio, like the idea and was thinking the same after seen one done on war games piece. Did inserts for the inner circles of my 32" lionel fast track layout and have couple different one. Mine, (Three Faces of Casyville ) so this is a fun concept. Thanks for the morning coffee...
If no one's already said it, a trapezoid is half a hexagon -- very common to use trapezoids on curved modules
I took up your switch/turnout challenge. Using a .png of my Hex cutting pattern, I don't have all the parts so I wasn't able to try it outside of AnyRail
You need
20030 (S64), N Kato Unitrack, Straight 6.4cm. 1
20071 (S29), N Kato Unitrack, Straight 2.9cm. 1
20121 (R315-15), N Kato Unitrack, Curve radius 31.5cm, angle 15º 1
20240 (EP150-45L), N Kato Unitrack, Left turnout 12.4cm. (remote) (Compact) 1
S33 (S33), N Kato Unitrack, Straight 3.3cm. 1
Place the S29 before the turn out and the S33 and S64 after, That way the R315-15 should meet the center of the side. ( I hope )
I'm really glad to find your channel. Your reasons for developing small modules are similar to mine I think. I've tried linking 9" square modules with HO track, but I like your hexagon idea much more. It reminds me of kato Mini Dioramas but I think hexagons have a lot more potential. Also good to see you doing it in S. I've settled on G(1-24) with 16.5mm track, because I wanted to make my own figures like the Travelling in Miniature channel does, & I also found a cheap HO motorised chassis. Keep up the in6teresting work. Cheers, Kev.
could even lay a double track on that bigger hexagon
You certainly could with straight track, but this is the smallest radius curve that they make 15º pieces for. So, if you wanted double curves I believe you would have to do it with flextrack.
As soon as I saw these (first via TrainTrax UK email newsletter) I wondered whether it would be possible in Z using Rokuhan track - after several hours fiddling with Rail Modeller Express and CAD, it seems like it works nicely with a regular hexagon 225mm side to side (2 x 112.8mm straight track) and a 195mm radius 60 degree curve, which should hit the edges just central :) An outer loop of 220mm radius would also fit, and Z gives a lot more scenic scope on a similar sized hexagon!
By my maths, if we size to a 60 degree curve of radius R, the matching straight should be 2/3 * sqrt(3) * R. So for a 216mm curve you get 249.4, which matches your 248mm straight.
So, can we get perfect fit for turnouts? Kato offers 3 turnout radii: 781mm, 481mm and 150mm.
781mm requires a 829.1mm straight. This can be done by 3*248, 1*45.5, and 1*38, with a gap of 1.6mm. That said, at almost 1m across per hexagon, this is probably way too large.
481mm requires a 555.4mm straight. This can be done by 2*248 and 2*29, with a gap of 1.4mm. That's still over half a metre per hexagon.
150mm requires a 173.2mm straight. A 64, a 62 and a 45.5 get to 171.5mm, which is out by only 1.7mm. Or you can go 3*33mm, 45.5mm and 29mm for a total of 173.5mm. To make 150mm curves work, you would need to cut the 45 degree 150mm compact curves to 15 degrees to make up to 60 degrees.
Variable length track could also be used to make the straight sections work.
If you're happy to go double track, a 381/414 curve has a central radius of 397.5mm and a matching straight of 459mm, which is almost exactly a 248, a 124, and 3*29. Won't help with turnouts, however.
Re: a turnout module. I've been doing a little calculation, and adding a 315 x 15 piece doesn't *quite* work. It comes out a couple of millimeters too long. However, if you accept needing to cut some straight fitters, using a 216 x 15 does -- and has the advantage of using 216 x 15, which you would already have.
Here's how it goes: 35mm straight 150mm turnout, 89mm straight (2 x 44.5 would fit using available pieces). Curved leg, 216x15 curve, 22mm straight. This also could be done with 249x15 or 282x15 with other fitters, but the straight fitter on the curved leg get shorter and probably more difficult to make.
What A fabulous idea...
Interesting ... I would make movable props with pegs and make holes in the hexagons for plug-in scenery.
I really respect your vision! The ability to model bite-sized snapshots and lavish them with detail is a really noble pursuit. Not to mention wrestling to get that geometry right? Well done.
Now, you may not be interested in 'operation' for this particular setup - which is of course fine - but I'm not seeing how such things could be incorporated into this schema. Maybe you have some ideas on that front? Or maybe this is just intended to be an excellent way to watch trains run. 😃 Cheers!
Yeah, the operations side of model railroading is less an interest to me. But, I do intend to try fitting a switching puzzle onto a double or triple module. Shouldn't be much of an issue!
Quite an interesting idea😁👍
Kato Unitrack has quite a lot of possibilities, and the shape of the module itself also has a lot to offer. The only limits are fantasy. How do you store your modules?
Greetings from Poland,...
If you're still looking for options with the switches, it may be worth considering Tomix track for the interior. Their 140mm radius turnouts seem interesting. To be honest, I haven't done any of the maths, I'm just throwing the idea out here as it occurred to me.
Kato sells an adapter track from Unitrack to Tomix, but you really don't need it; just cut off the plastic nose at the end of the Tomix track piece and use normal non-Unitrack rail joiners for both rails, and it works perfectly.
Very neat idea, as for the turn out bit you could shift the turn out closer to the center and have the curve come off at a 30° angle (if my math is right), but it would require a bit of custom chopping I'm sure.... or just use your flex track to make it work.
This is such a great idea. This significantly reduces the barrier to entry for people who want to try model railroading but don't have the room for a traditional layout and also provides a familiar jumping-off point for table-top gamers into the world of railroading. For that mater, it also provides the opportunity to hybridize these hobbies. This would fit perfectly with Civil War / WWII tabletop games... or even a futuristic 40K train for that matter. I can't wait to see the progress!
It definitely LOOKS like game pieces!
Excellent concept and thank you for sharing.
I'd suggest that Kato track can be cur (with care) to make odd length straights and properly aligned corner edges.
If you keep the cut end of the track inside the hexagon and use the original Kato ends at the edge, it should work well?
I am not familiar with the Kato N scale track as I do not have a layout presently. I do have 3 or 4 old AHM Mini-trains HOn30 sets. The thought of arranging a turnout track out of straight track line up with an adjacent face of the Hex is possible but I am not sure it can be done without modifying one or more pieces of track to accomplish it. It depends on the radius of the curve of the turnout and curved track sections. I will try to work on the alignment soon.
Please, Show a landscaped hex or two.
And a ?universal? landscape side?
How thick is the plywood? Is 4mm enough or is it 6mm?
I must admit that when I saw your original video (only a couple of minutes ago) my thought was that with a slightly bigger hex you only need one size, It could accommodate both straight or curved track to align at the centre of the straights.
On to your turnout issue. I can only think of a dremmel solution that would involve making a straight come off the turnout close to the start of the turn curve about where the ties change direction, inserting your straight and then adding the remaining curve at the end of the straight to align with the centre of the hex. I think with a bit of cut out guide paper you could establish which tie is the one to use to cut the turnout. With a paper cut and play template you can come up with a permanent template to actually use the same parts of the exit curve on the turnout and the straight you have, though you may need to cut the curve into more than one piece, using the straight in the middle. Using the dremmel carefully would allow maximum reuse of the ballast rail base, include it in your final template for repeat use.
We want videos of the entire process
Saw your original video and I agree with your decision to transition to a single, universal hex module. I also like the potential for combining units into double and triple hex configurations for (maybe) special group modules that are different from the traditional rectangular layout and can support your initial objective of "world building". Looking forward to seeing how this project develops and what you decide to create! Keep up the great work! 🙂
The idea of the modules, would be amazing,how scaleable would it be to fit HO scale track, and are you considering selling the modules?
Thanks! I don't think I am interested in making/selling modules, but I would definitely draft up a Hex-Trak standards document and make my module file available to all.
What the thickness of the hex plywood. Would suggest that you use rubber feet on the bottom this way if you put it on a good table it will not damage it.
These ones are on 3/8" birch. The problem with rubber feet is that you actually want to be able to slide them around to snap them together and reposition the whole layout. I could see putting some bits of felt on the feet though 👍
@@TabletopRailroad didn’t think of felt that’s a lot better choice, I’ve got the lazer engraver (hardly used) so this looks like a great project for my z scale. Made a lot of the T boxes it just too much work, takes a lot of space so I think this is a better fit for the home.
@@windforward9810 I'm working on a standards document and a website, on which I will share my laser cutting files.
Wow such a great idea sure wish these were a product you could buy it would be great for those that don't have access to laser cutters or saws keep up the great work.
Like the larger size but the smaller ones are good too for maybe a sidings
Love this system and can’t wait to see more! Glad you switched to a one size fits all!
Perhaps a better WYE...
A different WYE also using 3 hexes. It has smoother curves and 7.2"R (183mm) curves instead of 5.9" (150mm). I used a 20-222 WYE, and a 20-172 Curve 183mm, a 20-171 Curve 216mm, a 20-040 Straight 62mm, another 20-040 Straight 62mm, and another 20-171 Curve 216mm on each of the WYE's arms. It is possible that this one won't work, but according to X Track CAD, it is within 1 mm of working, so it might be worth trying.
Sounds like I need to order more Unitrack…. 🤣
I've got a Kato Mini Diorama Base, and a version of it I 3D printed, that I've started the scenery on, but think they are too small for what I want to do. I like this idea, and standardising on the hexagon module, but am wondering about making the edges where tracks don't connect more organic, roughly following the hexagon shape, but more random and curvy. I've got a laser and a CNC router, so varying the shape isn't a problem, but anyone who doesn't have facilities at home could get a stock of hexagons cut, and shape them with any tools they have available.
I toyed around with more organic shapes at the brainstorming phase of this, but if you keep to the standardized hexagon you can always add on more modules. Like if you make an oval, you can fill the middle seamlessly with more hexagons that are just scenery/diorama, with no track! If you go with more organic edges you could always just put some scatter terrain in the negative space... or leave it empty for "theater of the mind!"
PLUS - I've only finished modeling one of the original, smaller hexagons, but there is something strangely pleasing about the organic lines of the landscape set on the perfect geometry of the hex...
What would double track be like?
Perhap, I missed this suggestion already. I, too, was wanting a single "hex" to rule them all. For the switches, try a 20-091B Straight, a 20-240 or 20-241 Turnout, a 20-091B Straight, and a 20-030 Straight in that order. Use a 20-121 Curve for the curved part. In XTrackCAD, it says they connect, but visually, there is some slight misalignment when I zoom in. I assume it works anyway, but I don't have any track to test it, though. Also, it shortens the minimum radius to 150mm (5.90") which isn't ideal. I love the whole concept! Can't wait to see your storage case design!
It's very close! 2mm short on the straight, and the curve over hangs by about 2mm. The over hang isn't a deal breaker, but I think the short straight is...
20-071, 20-240, 20-040, and 20-092a works for the straight, but then the 20-121 is juuust out of alignment.
@@TabletopRailroadOn my original suggestion, if you swap out the second 20-091B 29mm for a 20-092A 33mm and the 20-030 64mm for a 20-040 62mm does that get the straight part the right length?
@@keeplastname1599 yes! Sorry, that’s what I have in my last comment, but my 29mm pieces are labeled 20-071 in RailModeller Express.
Fantastic! As an S Scaler this is mind-blowing. I have been collaborating with a good friend an HO modeler for ways to have modules for an annual NMRA Festival of Trains in our local libraries. This could be THE SYSTEM? My local library has a Digital Media Lab with filament printers...I will visit on Tuesday to determine if we can 3D print the HexTrak module(s). Thank you for sharing.
Awesome! I think they're going to be too big to 3D print, as far as print bed size and warping goes...
With some 3/8" plywood, a miter saw, and a little patience you could have a whole stack of these made in less time than a 3D printer could make one.
@@TabletopRailroad I have had great success with the filament printers, especially with flat surfaces. Too big? Don't know until I ask.
@@TabletopRailroad I agree. You and I can whip these up this afternoon...but what about the family living in the nearby condo/apartment that doesn't have access to power tools. Just go to the Library's Digital Media Lab, pay the $3 printing fee and in a few days you have a perfect hex-mod to start working on.
Absolutely!
A vertical shelving system where modules are stacked - stored when not in use would save space. Start by laying track on each module and lay them out to make a full sized layout on a 4 x 8 sheet of ply on two saw horses. Then stack them away on the shelves when not in use and set the ply flat against the wall and fold up the horses. That way a small desk or bench would be sufficient to work on modules one or two at a time. It would also permit variations in the 4 x 8 layout by changing module positions. GREAT idea.
Thanks! I have started drawing a design for a storage case. It is going to load in the front, with the modules sliding in to fitted slats on the right and left, almost like those racks you see people build for the black and yellow storage tubs.
@@TabletopRailroad YES - PERFECT !!!
I also modeled in X Track CAD the 58 Turntable with 20-091A Straight for each arm, and it looks like it would work.
I tried a WYE using 3 Hexes as I think the WYE is too long to make it come out at the center of the hex's edge within one hex. I used a 20-222 WYE, and a 20-174 Curve 150mm, a 20-030 Straight 64mm, 20-101 Curve 249mm, a 20-040 Straight 62mm, and another 20-170 Curve 150mm on each of the WYE's arms.
BRILLIANT! 👍
UPDATE: My local library has a 3D printer capable of printing the 248mm Universal Hexagon. They tell me that there is a significant wait time as they only have one of the MODIX Printer and it is very popular. Apposed to the other printers (6 or 8) but have a smaller base, Next, Tinkercad the 248mm hex and send it to print! Thanks TTRR!
This is very interesting. I've been playing with a square based desktop system recently. For quite some time I've been fascinated with American Flyer's All Aboard system. From the mid-60s it provided a table top modular system with 17" squares that tiled together. If you aren't already familiar with it, look it up. Recently, I started thinking of scaling it down to N. A module 186mm square allows either a 186mm straights, 150mm (compact track) corners, or turnout sections with the 150mm radius turnouts. The only module equivalent to the original All Aboard that was not plug and play with Kato Unitrak was the 90 degree crossing which was accomplished by hacking some Unitrack straights. I also have made some 114 x 186 straight modules that tile into the crossing to allow a figure-8 configuration. It's really surprising how much N scale equipment will run on the 150mm radius track.
62mm Kato straights attached to each leg of a 124mm compact switch would work out fine. 248mm across the flats. You could also use a 45mm Bachmann 45 degree crossing combined with Kato 64mm and 38mm straights on each leg. It comes out at 249mm which I doubt would be a problem. Kato doesn't do a 45 degree crossing. Great concept.
That is such a great idea an I’ll bet a person smarter than I am could use mathematics to solve and come up with the best size of hexagon to fit the various track lengths with certain switches. You’ve done quite a bit of research and product design with that in mind and there may not be a perfect solution for a one standard size, I just don’t know. Keep up the good work, very interesting and inspiring.
Brilliant!!! I'm interested to see scenic treatment of your module, set ups using multiple modules and a discussion of your trains. I'm impressed with your creativity.
Really think this going to be a good system. Two thoughts: 1 - making a module 3D so two sides and either spaces at the corners or sides to make it a 1/4 or 1/2" thick allowing the running of cables, 2 - peg system to join two modules together so you were not just relying on the track. Would like to see a video where you complete a module from start to finish. Cheers Stu
I played with the rail on hex tiles concept as a video game dev. The idea was to rotate tiles in a puzzle hex grid to fix the train tracks as the train travels the puzzle. I stumbled on a desktop board game called Railways of the World when I was toying with the idea. Might be useful.
Cool,
I think this change will give you some good flexibility for track designs. Look foward to ypur progress
This is a very good improvement. Although larger, you'd still have the original advantage, and honestly, the small sidings fit the concept so well.
Yes. A single size for everything will be much more satisfactory.
This is really cool for people with little space available. With these one might even be able to create a nice layout on a small shelf space. Im really exited to see where youll go with them
I am very intrigued by this idea and I plan to try some modules myself. I think this would be so interesting for the grand children to work with on the dinning room table and get them more interested in the hobby. This is something they could more easily wrap their interests around.
Never-mind, I was thinking octagon verses hexagon
Nice work so far. I think it is worth getting the turnout to work and set the Hexagon size based on the resulting geometry.
Very interesting I would like to see where you go with this 👍👍
Great concept. You have something here.
What is the thickness of the ply wood you are using?
I’m using 3/8” for minimal warping
@@TabletopRailroad That's be 10mm for us Europeans then. Thanks
I think the change to a single size for straight and curve is amazing. couple ideas and thoughts -
1. as you mentioned, t-track keeps 1mm gap on each side (with a single, the track is 310mm, the module is 308mm) so they go together and come apart better. I think in this arrangement it won't be as critical, but it's something to keep in mind if you struggle clicking them together and apart
2. with the hex concept, you're going to have a LOT of empty space that hexes will fit into in-between track. Just from your one layout example with the loop, there are two empty hexes inside the loop, and at least 5-6 spaces you could put more around the outside of the loop. these are GREAT spots to have "standalone" scenes you could move around - a building, a pond, you name it. you don't have to put buildings on the track module, with modules this small you could put them next to it and it would be part of the scene.
3. for turnouts to work (if that was a goal) you could do a "double module" or a "triangle of 3" (I would prefer this over a nonstandard size). So a working turnout might need two hexes next to each other but then, even if you had to use a bit of flex track, you could get it to line up. Even 1-2 switches for branch lines would really open up opportunities
I love the fact that these are small to work on, and not a bunch of level-finagling like with t-track. just put them on a flat surface and click them together. this really is a great, creative idea. It's similar in use to having a pile of Kato unitrack that you put up and take down all the time on the kitchen table, but every piece of track comes with a scene.
Great Work!
This is a great idea! I think that modular layouts are one of the potential futures for model railroads, making it more accessible for newcomers as well as bringing another social aspect to the hobby. I saw this in a UK model railway group and there's strong interest in this here!