thanks to cassette tapes, WAX, vinyl, thanks to wires...thanks to a shit ton of sheet music.. Thanks to the ..(unnamed effect) of some kind doing the "shave and a hair cut" knock that is still a thing.. not gonna thank 8track though.. cause the clunck in the middle of some important passage was unforgivable.!!
This is arguably true post-1764/65 after Mozart had been in London and spent a lot of time with JC, but less so up to to about 1781 when Mozart moved to Vienna; it is very debatable post-1781. During the last ten years of his life, Mozart’s music developed almost beyond recognition - and beyond the sound world and any template of JC Bach. In Vienna, Mozart absorbed and assimilated so many new ideas into an enrichment of his style - counterpoint, Bach and Handel, opera, et cetera, and when he met Haydn, he was confronted with a contemporary composer of comparable stature who actually challenged and stimulated him in a way others could not - for example Mozart’s response to Haydn’s Opus 33 string quartets. You’re right about Mozart adding his own particular genius to the mix, and the importance ofJC Bach, but that is only part of the story, and with a few exceptions, Mozart’s greatest works all post-date 1781, and JC’s death on New Year’s Day 1782.
I dare say I prefer the work of J.C. Bach to his father whose work was rather heavy. And yet so often he is swallowed by that surname. At least we are here to listen to them both aliquando.
Ricardo da Mata Where in that comment did I say which one was better? All I did was express my opinion on which composer I prefer listening to most often. Please take a class on reading and comprehension.
JCB, the 'Bach of London' played a certain role of his own in setting up the proto-classical style. He had an obvious influence on the child Mozart, who wrote his first concertos as amplifications of keyboard works of JCB. When he died, Mozart wrote to his father: "what a loss for the music!". The slow movement is unusually long. This symphony is quite typical of a "Sturm und Drang" temporary period, breaking off the somehow mellow style of JCB.
@Elaine Blackhurst Symphony, Johann Christian Bach G min work, Op 6 No 6, composed in the 1760s (definitely before 1768), it was almost certainly on the programmes of the concerts that Bach and fellow composer and impresario Carl Friedrich Abel put on in their series of prophetic and fashionable concerts at Carlisle House in London’s Soho, then St James, and finally at the bespoke concert room they had built at Hanover Square. JC Bach - the “London” Bach: Johann Christian had moved to Britain in 1762, initially to write operas for the King’s theatre, and was music master to Queen Charlotte, but subsequently focused on concertos and symphonies. In the 18th century, alchemical delight was reached through symphonies. And one of the pieces that would certainly have conjured a “scene of magic”, albeit a turbulent sorcery rather than anything more comforting, was the G minor symphony, Op 6 No 6. In three minor-key movements - including, in its central Andante, piu tosto adagio, one of the longest symphonic movements JC Bach ever wrote - this work reveals Bach’s major symphonic innovations as well as creating an explosive burst of the sturm und drang (“storm and stress”) passions that were the dark side of the 18th century’s sense and sensibility. Bach’s music was designed to appeal to its audiences. His tunes, his simple harmonies and his innovative use of orchestral colour were all supposed to enliven, entertain and elevate his listeners when they first heard his new pieces.
Stefan Stamenic Some really interesting thoughts, thank you. The only point I would pick up relates to the dating of JC Bach’s g minor Symphony Opus 6 No 6 which cannot be dated with certainty. The publication date is known - Amsterdam 1770, but the work was clearly composed before; I am not sure about ‘definitely before 1768’, though it could be. JC’s previous set of symphonies (Opus 3) were published in Amsterdam and Paris in 1765 so I think Opus 6 No 6 was written after this date; I think JC in writing this one-off ‘sturm und drang’ type work must have had some influences from somewhere. Perhaps he was aware of the g minor works of Franz Beck from 1758 - 1762, or of Carlos d’Ordonez as just two suggestions. There is a g minor symphony written by Giovanni Battista Sammartini (JC 57), which like JC’s Opus 6 No 6 has a middle movement in the sub-dominant minor; given the Milan connection betweeen the two composers, perhaps there is a link here. Additionally, I think Gluck’s Don Juan of 1761 was a seminal work that introduced a new level of intensity and feeling into music that influenced composers across Europe over the following decade. Neither would I rule out JC’s symphony being written after Haydn’s Symphony 39 (1767), which was similarly influential and a definite model for a number of these sturm und drang style symphonies. The other interesting question relating to this symphony is how London audiences would have reacted to such a very different work from anything else they would have heard at the Bach/Abel concerts, the opera, or anywhere else...another topic for some conjecture and speculation.
It's just such a pity neither Brown nor Hogwood are with us anymore. I admit I hoarded all of their recordings. When they invited Robert Levin to play Mozart's Piano Concerti they produced probably the best recordings in history of music.
I don't find words to express my feelings towards this music work. It was something extraordinary. How i liked to see all the composers write melodious music like this.. From now on Johann Christian Bach will be in my '' favorite composers'' list. Thanks for uploading.
9 лет назад+9
JOHANN CHRISTIAN BACH (September 5, 1735 - January 1, 1782) 280th ANNIVERSARY HIS BIRTH TODAY!!!
The model for this symphony - as with Mozart’s Symphony 25 (K183) - is almost certainly Haydn’s seminal Symphony 39. If interested, the trail to K183, and the link through JC (and Vanhal), is as follows. (All these works are in g minor). 1767 - Haydn Symphony 39 composed, 1770 - JC Bach’s Symphony Opus 6 No 6 published, 1771 - Vanhal Symphony g1 composed, 1773 - Mozart Symphony 25 composed - he heard all the three listed above in Vienna. (There’s also a Vanhal g2 of c.1773). You’re right though - with a slight switch of emphasis - Mozart can sound like JC Bach.
He was before Mozart ruclips.net/video/EKF0rUr2_iE/видео.html Let me sare of Berlin Concert of J.Ch. Bach in Moscow Tchaikovsky Conservatory. Enjoy please.
@@abdul-hadidadkhah1459 Certainly three members of the Bach family were important and contributed to the enrichment of Mozart’s learning and musical style: JS Bach as part of his counterpoint studies; CPE Bach with his Versuch (manual on modern keyboard playing); and JC Bach in terms of a very Italianate, slightly feminine, cantabile musical language. Whilst important in their own way to a greater or lesser degree, none of these contributions however alone or collectively ‘…paved the way for Mozart’ as this most eclectic of composers was open to so many other models throughout his career, that to limit it to these members of just one family is misleading.
Minor key symphonies are rather unusual, so this one won't conform exactly to our outline, but it's darn close. The only thing that this symphony is missing is the repeat of the exposition (PTSK), and the recap omits the P and T matetrial. The sections are as follow: P: to 0:25 T: 0:25 S: 0:38 (new, MAJOR key firmly established) K: 1:03 Development: 1:38 RECAP OMITS P THEME AND T! (This is a Mannheim-Style work, where the form was not yet fully established. Not a "Double Return" of both the home key WITH the P material). S theme in minor key: 2:32 K: 2:57 Note at 3:12 there is an echo of the P material! 1st movement ends at 3:42
This symphony definitely was anything but conventional. Truly the sections you mention would be a benefit to this work, but it is none the less a very new and interesting symphony for its time. As you mentioned it, a minor key symphony is uncommon, but almost all minor key symphonies in this time would have switched back to a major key for the slower and more lyrical parts. To find a gem like this, along with the many other works by both him and the rest of the Bach family is truly a blessing.
Best JC symphony. Same level as Haydn's Sturm und Drang and above Mannheimers' minor keys symphonies, especially third movement is a masterpiece. However JC symphonies output (on average, excluding this one and few others) does not reach heights of his keyboard concertos.
Pietro Landri Haydn’s Sturm und Drang works of the late 1760s/early 1770s were largely works beyond the capability of any living composer at the time, the young Mozart included (Charles Rosen). JC Bach’s symphony is a is a very fine work though it is untypical amongst his symphonies - there is nothing from JC Bach that sounds anything like this work. It is difficult to place this Op 6 No 6 symphony at the same level as Haydn’s 26, 44, 45 or 49 for example but it does rank with a number of symphonies composed in this style at the time by other composers such as Vanhal or Dittersdorf. Opus 6 No 6 is a fine symphony, indeed one of JC’s best, perhaps a better way of expressing it; the first five symphonies from Opus 18 are also amongst his best, along with one or two of the others as well.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 You're basically just arguing from the authority. Besides, Rosen was a complete idiot! He is the same guy who said that Chopin was the greatest contrapuntist since Mozart.
@@abdul-hadidadkhah1459 Opinions are fine, I agree completely, however ill-informed they may be. If someone’s opinion is that the earth is flat (there are people who believe this to be true), then that opinion is mistaken and needs challenging; the earth is spherical. I am challenging a similarly mistaken viewpoint that demonstrates that a musical opinion is a judgement not necessarily based on knowledge and understanding. No composer wrote sturm und drang symphonies at the consistently high inspirational level of Haydn around 1770; this is not only my view: this may help. *Charles Rosen* in his essential book on the music of the period *The Classical Style* wrote that Haydn at this time was writing music: *’…on a level that no other composer of Haydn’s time could equal or even approach.’* This view has never been challenged by any serious scholar.
SI Lee This work (1769/70), along with Vanhal’s g1 symphony (1771), both modelled on Haydn’s Symphony 39 (1767), were all I think known to Mozart when he made his one-off attempt at a ‘sturm und drang’ type work - the g minor Symphony 25 (K183) written in 1773. Both the JC Bach and Mozart symphonies are very atypical as both composers wrote virtually nothing else in this very particular ‘sturm und drang’ style which has very specific characteristics. Generally speaking though, you are almost right: Mozart does sound a little bit like JC Bach, rather than the other way around.
Switched over to JC Bach for the rest of my evening. Been listening to WF Bach last couple of weeks. Wanted something lighter; pretty. I like WF when I need weight. I like JC when I have it.
Harry Andruschak - zoran stokić: "Haydn - Hob XXIVa:6 - Cantata "Applausus" (1768) Aria (Fortitudo) 'Si obtrudat ultimam' - like Johann Christian Bach - Symphony in G minor Op.6 No.6 "
Stefan Stamenic Haydn’s one-off ‘Applausus’ cantata* was commissioned by, and written for the Cistercian abbey at Zwettl in 1768; JC Bach’s fine symphony Opus 6 No 6 was first published in Amsterdam in 1770. The chances of either composer (one of whom was living in Austria/Hungary, the other in England), knowing anything whatsoever about the particular work mentioned of the other, are less than zero. Any similarities you may hear are entirely coincidental. * Applausus is extremely difficult to sell to modern audiences. It is a static, sacred opera seria, with a libretto that is virtually meaningless to a modern audience - it was written to celebrate the Abbott of Zwettl monastery completing 50 years as a monk. In spite of the long da capo arias, it does contain some musical interest - as does everything by Haydn - and is best suited to being played on the cd during something like a long car journey.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Symphony, Johann Christian Bach G min work, Op 6 No 6, composed in the 1760s (definitely before 1768), it was almost certainly on the programmes of the concerts that Bach and fellow composer and impresario Carl Friedrich Abel put on in their series of prophetic and fashionable concerts at Carlisle House in London’s Soho, then St James, and finally at the bespoke concert room they had built at Hanover Square. JC Bach - the “London” Bach: Johann Christian had moved to Britain in 1762, initially to write operas for the King’s theatre, and was music master to Queen Charlotte, but subsequently focused on concertos and symphonies. In the 18th century, alchemical delight was reached through symphonies. And one of the pieces that would certainly have conjured a “scene of magic”, albeit a turbulent sorcery rather than anything more comforting, was the G minor symphony, Op 6 No 6. In three minor-key movements - including, in its central Andante, piu tosto adagio, one of the longest symphonic movements JC Bach ever wrote - this work reveals Bach’s major symphonic innovations as well as creating an explosive burst of the sturm und drang (“storm and stress”) passions that were the dark side of the 18th century’s sense and sensibility. Bach’s music was designed to appeal to its audiences. His tunes, his simple harmonies and his innovative use of orchestral colour were all supposed to enliven, entertain and elevate his listeners when they first heard his new pieces.
Actually, I suspect it was J.C. Bach's g-minor symphony, Op. 6 %6, that influenced the other two.: J.C. Bach's is thought to have been written in the mid-1760's (possbly as early as 1762) and published a bit later, But manuscript copies and theft of printed scores of his music circulated widely all over Europe almost before the ink was dry. Haydn almost certainly knew J.C. Bach's g-minor symphony, since he and the Prince collectively had one of the largest collection of scores in Europe. Haydn's g-minor symphony, #39, was written around 1765. Likely it was locked up in the Esterházys' scores room, never to see the light of day until much later. Maybe a bootleg copy circulated among a small circle of friends. I doubt if either Mozart or J.C. Bach was familiar with it. Mozart's "little" g-minor, K.183, was written in 1773, much later than the other two. A strong case can be made that J.C. Bach's g-minor symphony influenced both Haydn's and Mozart's.
Tom Kendall You have contributed some thoughtful points and could be correct in your chronology. However, having looked into these g minor ‘sturm und drang’ works over many years, it is almost certain that Haydn’s Symphony 39 came first, probably written in 1767 (your date is too early, and does not fit with when Haydn had 4 horns available at Eszterhazy - a key factor). JC Bach’s Op 6 No 6 is such a one-off, never to be repeated oddity that I think - like many composers across Europe - he made a single attempt to compose something following the Haydn model; Haydn on the other hand, wrote a series of symphonies in this style over a period of several years. Many other composers including for example: Dittersdorf, Vanhal, Maldere, Beck, d’Ordonez and of course Mozart in 1773 as you correctly state, also tried there hand at works in this style. Mozart’s model was primarily the Haydn, though I think he also knew the JC Bach, along with Vanhal’s first g minor symphony (g1), all of which he almost certainly heard in Vienna in 1773 - possibly others as well. There are earlier g minor symphonies that pre-date Haydn’s 39 by composers such as Fils and Beck but it is debatable whether they could be classified as ‘sturm und drang’, and they were certainly not widely influential as was Haydn 39; they - and others - probably owe more to Gluck’s Don Juan (1761), which was a massively influential and seminal work. The other factor which makes me believe that the Haydn came first is that he clearly stated that his isolation ‘…forced me to be original’, and that he was not subjected to outside influences. Unlike Mozart who absorbed and assimilated almost everything he heard, everywhere he went, a striking difference with Haydn is how little he took from virtually any composer he came across throughout his life - with the notable exception of CPE Bach. However, Haydn’s studies of CPE’s Versuch and the associated sonatas was more about studying compositional technique and form than ‘influence’. If Haydn modelled his symphony on that of JC Bach, then it would stand unique amongst the 104 symphonies - I think it very unlikely, especially as from the extensive sources listing all the music played at Eszterhaza and Eisenstadt,* not a single note of JC Bach’s music is to be found, whether orchestral, chamber, solo keyboard, or opera. * HC Robbins Landon - Haydn: Chronicle and Works (Volume II) Haydn at Eszterhaza.
gymnassfan As a personal opinion, it you enjoy Mozart 25, that’s great. As a more objective judgement, Charles Rosen in his standard text on the music of the period ‘The Classical Style’ (1971), when discussing music in the early 1770’s - ie ‘sturm und drang’ type works - he wrote that Haydn was writing music: ‘...on a level that no other composer of Haydn’s time could equal, or even approach’. This view has never been challenged seriously, and includes the seventeen year old Mozart’s K183. Note: I would suggest that Mozart’s first unarguable and unqualified masterpiece is the Piano Concerto No 9 ‘Jenamy’ (K271), written in Salzburg in January 1777. In this work, for the first time, another composer does equal the standard - specifically in the field of the piano concerto - set by Haydn referred to by Rosen.
Haydn was one of the most original of composers, and only ever acknowledged CPE Bach as a mentor. Haydn and Mozart are in fact polar opposites regarding ‘influences’; Mozart assimilated - then integrated and transformed - almost everything he ever heard; Haydn was almost impervious. The chances of Haydn knowing any of JC’s music are very slim, none was ever performed - either symphonies, concertos, chamber music or operas - at Eszterhaza. That said, he could have heard this symphony in Vienna in the early 1770’s - his Opus 20 was composed 1772 - it’s a close call. Even if Haydn did hear it, quotations or borrowings almost never occur in Haydn, and when they do - as in the quotation of Gluck’s ‘Che farò...’ in one of the baryton trios - its more like a modern day ‘cover’. Any similarity you may have heard is more likely just a coincidental use of a common Classical musical language.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 he didnt mention CPE Bach, did he?! So why bring him up? Being a mentor to someone constitutes notable influence on that person. Cope!
Eric Dovigi Haydn Symphony 39 (1767), led to JC Bach Opus 6 No 6 (published 1770), and Vanhal g1 (1771). All three were heard by Mozart in Vienna, and led to Mozart Symphony 25 K183 (1773).
He was before Mozart ruclips.net/video/EKF0rUr2_iE/видео.html Let me sare of Berlin Concert of J.Ch. Bach in Moscow Tchaikovsky Conservatory. Enjoy please.
@@willemmusik2010 The chronology for your suggestion does not fit. Mozart met JC Bach in London 1764/65. JC’s first set of six symphonies - Opus 3 - were only published in 1765. JC’s Opus 6 No 6 was not published until 1770. Mozart almost certainly first heard this g minor symphony by JC during a trip to Vienna in 1773. In short, Mozart could not have heard JC’s Opus 6 No 6 in London as an 8/9 year old boy, because it had not yet been written.
It an anachronism to compare JC Bach to Mozart as he preceded Mozart and from hearing Mozart he stole his style from JC Bach. It seems to me his Bach name put him in the shadow of his father and Mozart assimilated his music and got famous from rearranging it and putting his name on it. Mozart is the most overrated composer and probably would have nver been Mozart without JC Bach's music to cultivate his ear and to leave to prosperity a treasure trove body of compositions that deserved much more recognition. Mozart must have loved JC Bach's music but had no conscience problem stealing it to make his own success. Especially in modern times the reverence people devote to mozart is largely usurped and fails to recognize the proximity of his music to JC Bach, instead they assume his whole style and inspiration to be genuine. Mozart was just another music hack , talented yes but injustice is done by attributing all his style and compositions to be original.
Mozart readily copied the 'gallant' style of JC Bach - but went on to craft what came to be known as the Classical style - Baroque to Rococo to Classical -
Well no, yes Mozart definitely was taught by JC Bach you can hear it very clearly. But Mozart did expand what JC Bach was doing. Mozarts music reaches a depth that JC Bachs does not. I don't mean to say Bach is poor, he's not. He's excellent. But Mozart did some astonishing things with Bach's style. Having said all that, this symphony features a lot of things that can be heard very clearly in Mozart. There's a moment in the first movement that sounds almost exactly like a moment in Mozarts much later Prague symphony (or the Haffner can't remember which).
Totally agree. While a lot of Mozart has that sameness that JC Bach does not compare badly too, one should look at the heights (the later symphonies, the Requiem, the C minor mass, the late piano concertos and much chamber music ): that´s where the depth you point out becomes very clear and the difference between between the best Mozart and the best of these other composers. I must admit, though, Haydn´s best often stands well with Mozart, even though the former is always second-tiered.
How wonderful it is to realize that we live in a time when, thanks to RUclips, you can listen to those songs that existed before our days
thanks to cassette tapes, WAX, vinyl, thanks to wires...thanks to a shit ton of sheet music.. Thanks to the ..(unnamed effect) of some kind doing the "shave and a hair cut" knock that is still a thing.. not gonna thank 8track though.. cause the clunck in the middle of some important passage was unforgivable.!!
youtube is not even the biggest contribution, sheet, amplified recording, vinyl, cd were much more revolutionary
Underrated composer
he’s literally considered the best composer by many
@@bennettsalt Like whom?
@@DanielFahimi I'm pretty sure he's confusing Johann Christian with his father Johann Sebastian.
@@bennettsalt r/whoosh 💀
@@thisguy3243 Gtfo redditor
More than anyone else J. C. Bach created the template for Mozart, to which he added the element of genius.
This is arguably true post-1764/65 after Mozart had been in London and spent a lot of time with JC, but less so up to to about 1781 when Mozart moved to Vienna; it is very debatable post-1781.
During the last ten years of his life, Mozart’s music developed almost beyond recognition - and beyond the sound world and any template of JC Bach.
In Vienna, Mozart absorbed and assimilated so many new ideas into an enrichment of his style - counterpoint, Bach and Handel, opera, et cetera, and when he met Haydn, he was confronted with a contemporary composer of comparable stature who actually challenged and stimulated him in a way others could not - for example Mozart’s response to Haydn’s Opus 33 string quartets.
You’re right about Mozart adding his own particular genius to the mix, and the importance ofJC Bach, but that is only part of the story, and with a few exceptions, Mozart’s greatest works all post-date 1781, and JC’s death on New Year’s Day 1782.
Bachs really live up to their heritage!
Another gem that can hold its own with early Mozart and Haydn...
I dare say I prefer the work of J.C. Bach to his father whose work was rather heavy. And yet so often he is swallowed by that surname. At least we are here to listen to them both aliquando.
benomind So do you think JC is better than JS Bach? Please, don't be so superficial...
Ricardo da Mata
Where in that comment did I say which one was better? All I did was express my opinion on which composer I prefer listening to most often. Please take a class on reading and comprehension.
benomind Please, improve your taste...
Ricardo da Mata What's wrong with prefering Johann Christian and not the big dragons?
His music bomb! Fresh & light. Sounds are clear.
I don't listen to much from this period. This symphony is seriously awesome.
Same
مافي شي يلامس قلبي كثر الموسيقى الكلاسيكيه❤️ احب الاجواء القديمه
أنا أيضاً! ☺️❤️
@@StephenLukeYo también
JCB, the 'Bach of London' played a certain role of his own in setting up the proto-classical style. He had an obvious influence on the child Mozart, who wrote his first concertos as amplifications of keyboard works of JCB. When he died, Mozart wrote to his father: "what a loss for the music!". The slow movement is unusually long. This symphony is quite typical of a "Sturm und Drang" temporary period, breaking off the somehow mellow style of JCB.
an underrated composer,deserving to be performed as the others.
Are you sick man?
are you?
The opening of the last movement is like a storm at sea
@Elaine Blackhurst Symphony, Johann Christian Bach G min work, Op 6 No 6, composed in the 1760s (definitely before 1768), it was almost certainly on the programmes of the concerts that Bach and fellow composer and impresario Carl Friedrich Abel put on in their series of prophetic and fashionable concerts at Carlisle House in London’s Soho, then St James, and finally at the bespoke concert room they had built at Hanover Square. JC Bach - the “London” Bach: Johann Christian had moved to Britain in 1762, initially to write operas for the King’s theatre, and was music master to Queen Charlotte, but subsequently focused on concertos and symphonies. In the 18th century, alchemical delight was reached through symphonies. And one of the pieces that would certainly have conjured a “scene of magic”, albeit a turbulent sorcery rather than anything more comforting, was the G minor symphony, Op 6 No 6. In three minor-key movements - including, in its central Andante, piu tosto adagio, one of the longest symphonic movements JC Bach ever wrote - this work reveals Bach’s major symphonic innovations as well as creating an explosive burst of the sturm und drang (“storm and stress”) passions that were the dark side of the 18th century’s sense and sensibility. Bach’s music was designed to appeal to its audiences. His tunes, his simple harmonies and his innovative use of orchestral colour were all supposed to enliven, entertain and elevate his listeners when they first heard his new pieces.
Stefan Stamenic
Some really interesting thoughts, thank you.
The only point I would pick up relates to the dating of JC Bach’s g minor Symphony Opus 6 No 6 which cannot be dated with certainty.
The publication date is known - Amsterdam 1770, but the work was clearly composed before; I am not sure about ‘definitely before 1768’, though it could be.
JC’s previous set of symphonies (Opus 3) were published in Amsterdam and Paris in 1765 so I think Opus 6 No 6 was written after this date; I think JC in writing this one-off ‘sturm und drang’ type work must have had some influences from somewhere.
Perhaps he was aware of the g minor works of Franz Beck from 1758 - 1762, or of Carlos d’Ordonez as just two suggestions.
There is a g minor symphony written by Giovanni Battista Sammartini (JC 57), which like JC’s Opus 6 No 6 has a middle movement in the sub-dominant minor; given the Milan connection betweeen the two composers, perhaps there is a link here.
Additionally, I think Gluck’s Don Juan of 1761 was a seminal work that introduced a new level of intensity and feeling into music that influenced composers across Europe over the following decade.
Neither would I rule out JC’s symphony being written after Haydn’s Symphony 39 (1767), which was similarly influential and a definite model for a number of these sturm und drang style symphonies.
The other interesting question relating to this symphony is how London audiences would have reacted to such a very different work from anything else they would have heard at the Bach/Abel concerts, the opera, or anywhere else...another topic for some conjecture and speculation.
This composers music is just heaven to your ears and mind . And soul .
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
The second movement is miraculous!
Doesn't it sound a bit like his father's keyboard concerto bwv 1052 second movement?
Fascinante Johann Christian Bach ,últimos sones del barroco tardío , pleno período galante, sturm und drang , y maestro del joven Mozart . Un genio !!
I love this symphony, especially the last movement, it's awesome!
So cool! He makes weird sounds in unexpected moments it's so nice
Just love the "Academy of Ancient Music" founded by Christopher Hogwood and Iona Brown.
It's just such a pity neither Brown nor Hogwood are with us anymore. I admit I hoarded all of their recordings. When they invited Robert Levin to play Mozart's Piano Concerti they produced probably the best recordings in history of music.
Composed 250 years ago & it’s so relaxing
Actually your son did
Yeah im not sure that was the emotion he was going for hahah
Wretched Wight
Absolutely right; how any of these ‘sturm und drang’ type symphonies could be described as ‘...so relaxing’ is a complete mystery.
Relaxing? 🤣🤣 sounds pretty frantic to me!
I don't find words to express my feelings towards this music work. It was something extraordinary. How i liked to see all the composers write melodious music like this.. From now on Johann Christian Bach will be in my '' favorite composers'' list. Thanks for uploading.
JOHANN CHRISTIAN BACH
(September 5, 1735 - January 1, 1782)
280th ANNIVERSARY HIS BIRTH TODAY!!!
This Is master piece sounds like Mozart, yet
The model for this symphony - as with Mozart’s Symphony 25 (K183) - is almost certainly Haydn’s seminal Symphony 39.
If interested, the trail to K183, and the link through JC (and Vanhal), is as follows.
(All these works are in g minor).
1767 - Haydn Symphony 39 composed,
1770 - JC Bach’s Symphony Opus 6 No 6 published,
1771 - Vanhal Symphony g1 composed,
1773 - Mozart Symphony 25 composed - he heard all the three listed above in Vienna.
(There’s also a Vanhal g2 of c.1773).
You’re right though - with a slight switch of emphasis - Mozart can sound like JC Bach.
Thats right.Thanks for the info.
He was before Mozart ruclips.net/video/EKF0rUr2_iE/видео.html Let me sare of Berlin Concert of J.Ch. Bach in Moscow Tchaikovsky Conservatory. Enjoy please.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 i knew this comment was going to trigger you. Accept that the Bach family paved the way for Mozart.
@@abdul-hadidadkhah1459
Certainly three members of the Bach family were important and contributed to the enrichment of Mozart’s learning and musical style:
JS Bach as part of his counterpoint studies;
CPE Bach with his Versuch (manual on modern keyboard playing);
and JC Bach in terms of a very Italianate, slightly feminine, cantabile musical language.
Whilst important in their own way to a greater or lesser degree, none of these contributions however alone or collectively ‘…paved the way for Mozart’ as this most eclectic of composers was open to so many other models throughout his career, that to limit it to these members of just one family is misleading.
Minor key symphonies are rather unusual, so this one won't conform exactly to our outline, but it's darn close. The only thing that this symphony is missing is the repeat of the exposition (PTSK), and the recap omits the P and T matetrial. The sections are as follow:
P: to 0:25
T: 0:25
S: 0:38 (new, MAJOR key firmly established)
K: 1:03
Development: 1:38
RECAP OMITS P THEME AND T! (This is a Mannheim-Style work, where the form was not yet fully established. Not a "Double Return" of both the home key WITH the P material).
S theme in minor key: 2:32
K: 2:57
Note at 3:12 there is an echo of the P material!
1st movement ends at 3:42
Thank you for the top-notch analysis.
EXCELLENT WAY TO KNOW THAT BRO IT WOULD BEEN WAY MORE SATISFYING AND SYMPHONIC IF HE FOLLOWED MORE CLASSICAL FORMS
This symphony definitely was anything but conventional. Truly the sections you mention would be a benefit to this work, but it is none the less a very new and interesting symphony for its time. As you mentioned it, a minor key symphony is uncommon, but almost all minor key symphonies in this time would have switched back to a major key for the slower and more lyrical parts. To find a gem like this, along with the many other works by both him and the rest of the Bach family is truly a blessing.
+What_could_possibly_go_wrong ? Well said bro
Beautiful performance ! Thank you :)
Cuanto trabajo detras de esta estupenda sinfonia.Y con luz de velas.Por las noches...
The G minor is almost like electric guitar. Totally on the wave of sound. Love all Bach!
why do i love G minor symphonies so much?
I also ask myself the same...it's more modern sound for our ears now?
It is true. Is beautiful.
RIP
Johann Christian Bach
(1735-1782)
Amazing!
My sister loves it.
Second mov is very close to Mozarts 40 Symphony II mov.
It's close to JS's bwv 1052 second movement as well
Красота! Изящество Моцарта!
Это изящество Баха младшего, а не Моцарта.
Best JC symphony. Same level as Haydn's Sturm und Drang and above Mannheimers' minor keys symphonies, especially third movement is a masterpiece. However JC symphonies output (on average, excluding this one and few others) does not reach heights of his keyboard concertos.
Pietro Landri
Haydn’s Sturm und Drang works of the late 1760s/early 1770s were largely works beyond the capability of any living composer at the time, the young Mozart included (Charles Rosen).
JC Bach’s symphony is a is a very fine work though it is untypical amongst his symphonies - there is nothing from JC Bach that sounds anything like this work.
It is difficult to place this Op 6 No 6 symphony at the same level as Haydn’s 26, 44, 45 or 49 for example but it does rank with a number of symphonies composed in this style at the time by other composers such as Vanhal or Dittersdorf.
Opus 6 No 6 is a fine symphony, indeed one of JC’s best, perhaps a better way of expressing it; the first five symphonies from Opus 18 are also amongst his best, along with one or two of the others as well.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 You're basically just arguing from the authority. Besides, Rosen was a complete idiot! He is the same guy who said that Chopin was the greatest contrapuntist since Mozart.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 it's his opinion that this piece on the level of Haydn. Hes entitled to it. Cope!
Ignore the Bach hater, Pietro.
@@abdul-hadidadkhah1459
Opinions are fine, I agree completely, however ill-informed they may be.
If someone’s opinion is that the earth is flat (there are people who believe this to be true), then that opinion is mistaken and needs challenging; the earth is spherical.
I am challenging a similarly mistaken viewpoint that demonstrates that a musical opinion is a judgement not necessarily based on knowledge and understanding.
No composer wrote sturm und drang symphonies at the consistently high inspirational level of Haydn around 1770; this is not only my view: this may help.
*Charles Rosen* in his essential book on the music of the period *The Classical Style* wrote that Haydn at this time was writing music:
*’…on a level that no other composer of Haydn’s time could equal or even approach.’*
This view has never been challenged by any serious scholar.
Sounds really a bit like genius Mozart!
SI Lee
This work (1769/70), along with Vanhal’s g1 symphony (1771), both modelled on Haydn’s Symphony 39 (1767), were all I think known to Mozart when he made his one-off attempt at a ‘sturm und drang’ type work - the g minor Symphony 25 (K183) written in 1773.
Both the JC Bach and Mozart symphonies are very atypical as both composers wrote virtually nothing else in this very particular ‘sturm und drang’ style which has very specific characteristics.
Generally speaking though, you are almost right: Mozart does sound a little bit like JC Bach, rather than the other way around.
r/PieceoftheDay featured this piece today, September 14th, 2021.
Switched over to JC Bach for the rest of my evening. Been listening to WF Bach last couple of weeks. Wanted something lighter; pretty. I like WF when I need weight. I like JC when I have it.
My ❤🎉best❤🎉 one
that music can be so beautiful
This song is metal AF.
I might upload the sheet music for this
very dramatic music!! jhoann Christian Bach great composer
in JCB we hear the scaffolding upon which Mozart built an entire world of riches
The third movement is metal.
Would anyone have the complete sheet music for this score (or at least the first movement)?
❤
Does anybody know who the artist is of this magnificent painting?
Looks like a Vernet. He was famous for these naufrages.
Cool
The II mvt Is wonderful. What did It mean to become orphan at 15? Maybe, a limitless and melanchonic opportunity to fit his time.
I'm listening to this for orchestra
Anybody know where I can find only mov. I?
any Bach is better than anyone really
Harry Andruschak - zoran stokić: "Haydn - Hob XXIVa:6 - Cantata "Applausus" (1768)
Aria (Fortitudo) 'Si obtrudat ultimam' - like Johann Christian Bach - Symphony in G minor Op.6 No.6 "
Stefan Stamenic
Haydn’s one-off ‘Applausus’ cantata* was commissioned by, and written for the Cistercian abbey at Zwettl in 1768; JC Bach’s fine symphony Opus 6 No 6 was first published in Amsterdam in 1770.
The chances of either composer (one of whom was living in Austria/Hungary, the other in England), knowing anything whatsoever about the particular work mentioned of the other, are less than zero.
Any similarities you may hear are entirely coincidental.
* Applausus is extremely difficult to sell to modern audiences.
It is a static, sacred opera seria, with a libretto that is virtually meaningless to a modern audience - it was written to celebrate the Abbott of Zwettl monastery completing 50 years as a monk.
In spite of the long da capo arias, it does contain some musical interest - as does everything by Haydn - and is best suited to being played on the cd during something like a long car journey.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 Symphony, Johann Christian Bach G min work, Op 6 No 6, composed in the 1760s (definitely before 1768), it was almost certainly on the programmes of the concerts that Bach and fellow composer and impresario Carl Friedrich Abel put on in their series of prophetic and fashionable concerts at Carlisle House in London’s Soho, then St James, and finally at the bespoke concert room they had built at Hanover Square. JC Bach - the “London” Bach: Johann Christian had moved to Britain in 1762, initially to write operas for the King’s theatre, and was music master to Queen Charlotte, but subsequently focused on concertos and symphonies. In the 18th century, alchemical delight was reached through symphonies. And one of the pieces that would certainly have conjured a “scene of magic”, albeit a turbulent sorcery rather than anything more comforting, was the G minor symphony, Op 6 No 6. In three minor-key movements - including, in its central Andante, piu tosto adagio, one of the longest symphonic movements JC Bach ever wrote - this work reveals Bach’s major symphonic innovations as well as creating an explosive burst of the sturm und drang (“storm and stress”) passions that were the dark side of the 18th century’s sense and sensibility. Bach’s music was designed to appeal to its audiences. His tunes, his simple harmonies and his innovative use of orchestral colour were all supposed to enliven, entertain and elevate his listeners when they first heard his new pieces.
Stefan Stamenic
Your reply does not relate to my point above; neither does it acknowledge my detailed response to your identical post elsewhere.
very good
Mozart c minor concerto big time in the slow movement
just listening to this for a prjoect...
wow, you really suck.
😊😉💛🌱💚💙
🎉
3:42 Mozart's piano concerto n° 24
The opening notes remind me of his father's keyboard concerto in d minor II movement
Incredible
easy to write
What painting is that?
Influenced by Haydn's 39th Symphony in G Minor, perhaps? And this symphony probably inspired Mozart's 25th Symphony, also in G Minor.
Oh man, nothing beats that Mozart piece.
Actually, I suspect it was J.C. Bach's g-minor symphony, Op. 6 %6, that influenced the other two.:
J.C. Bach's is thought to have been written in the mid-1760's (possbly as early as 1762) and published a bit later, But manuscript copies and theft of printed scores of his music circulated widely all over Europe almost before the ink was dry. Haydn almost certainly knew J.C. Bach's g-minor symphony, since he and the Prince collectively had one of the largest collection of scores in Europe.
Haydn's g-minor symphony, #39, was written around 1765. Likely it was locked up in the Esterházys' scores room, never to see the light of day until much later. Maybe a bootleg copy circulated among a small circle of friends. I doubt if either Mozart or J.C. Bach was familiar with it.
Mozart's "little" g-minor, K.183, was written in 1773, much later than the other two.
A strong case can be made that J.C. Bach's g-minor symphony influenced both Haydn's and Mozart's.
Tom Kendall
You have contributed some thoughtful points and could be correct in your chronology.
However, having looked into these g minor ‘sturm und drang’ works over many years, it is almost certain that Haydn’s Symphony 39 came first, probably written in 1767 (your date is too early, and does not fit with when Haydn had 4 horns available at Eszterhazy - a key factor).
JC Bach’s Op 6 No 6 is such a one-off, never to be repeated oddity that I think - like many composers across Europe - he made a single attempt to compose something following the Haydn model; Haydn on the other hand, wrote a series of symphonies in this style over a period of several years.
Many other composers including for example: Dittersdorf, Vanhal, Maldere, Beck, d’Ordonez and of course Mozart in 1773 as you correctly state, also tried there hand at works in this style.
Mozart’s model was primarily the Haydn, though I think he also knew the JC Bach, along with Vanhal’s first g minor symphony (g1), all of which he almost certainly heard in Vienna in 1773 - possibly others as well.
There are earlier g minor symphonies that pre-date Haydn’s 39 by composers such as Fils and Beck but it is debatable whether they could be classified as ‘sturm und drang’, and they were certainly not widely influential as was Haydn 39; they - and others - probably owe more to Gluck’s Don Juan (1761), which was a massively influential and seminal work.
The other factor which makes me believe that the Haydn came first is that he clearly stated that his isolation ‘…forced me to be original’, and that he was not subjected to outside influences.
Unlike Mozart who absorbed and assimilated almost everything he heard, everywhere he went, a striking difference with Haydn is how little he took from virtually any composer he came across throughout his life - with the notable exception of CPE Bach.
However, Haydn’s studies of CPE’s Versuch and the associated sonatas was more about studying compositional technique and form than ‘influence’.
If Haydn modelled his symphony on that of JC Bach, then it would stand unique amongst the 104 symphonies - I think it very unlikely, especially as from the extensive sources listing all the music played at Eszterhaza and Eisenstadt,* not a single note of JC Bach’s music is to be found, whether orchestral, chamber, solo keyboard, or opera.
* HC Robbins Landon - Haydn: Chronicle and Works (Volume II) Haydn at Eszterhaza.
gymnassfan
As a personal opinion, it you enjoy Mozart 25, that’s great.
As a more objective judgement, Charles Rosen in his standard text on the music of the period ‘The Classical Style’ (1971), when discussing music in the early 1770’s - ie ‘sturm und drang’ type works - he wrote that Haydn was writing music:
‘...on a level that no other composer of Haydn’s time could equal, or even approach’.
This view has never been challenged seriously, and includes the seventeen year old Mozart’s K183.
Note: I would suggest that Mozart’s first unarguable and unqualified masterpiece is the Piano Concerto No 9 ‘Jenamy’ (K271), written in Salzburg in January 1777.
In this work, for the first time, another composer does equal the standard - specifically in the field of the piano concerto - set by Haydn referred to by Rosen.
Am I the only one getting ads in the middle of this? So upsetting.
What I do is fast forward the video to the end before I listen, then click replay and that cancels all the ads
owww fuck have a nice day
3:12
1:14
Slow movement foreshadows Haydn's op 20 #2 maybe? Not sure if Haydn knew JC's music. He was pretty isolated working for the Estherhazys.
Haydn was one of the most original of composers, and only ever acknowledged CPE Bach as a mentor.
Haydn and Mozart are in fact polar opposites regarding ‘influences’; Mozart assimilated - then integrated and transformed - almost everything he ever heard; Haydn was almost impervious.
The chances of Haydn knowing any of JC’s music are very slim, none was ever performed - either symphonies, concertos, chamber music or operas - at Eszterhaza.
That said, he could have heard this symphony in Vienna in the early 1770’s - his Opus 20 was composed 1772 - it’s a close call.
Even if Haydn did hear it, quotations or borrowings almost never occur in Haydn, and when they do - as in the quotation of Gluck’s ‘Che farò...’ in one of the baryton trios - its more like a modern day ‘cover’.
Any similarity you may have heard is more likely just a coincidental use of a common Classical musical language.
@@elaineblackhurst1509 he didnt mention CPE Bach, did he?! So why bring him up? Being a mentor to someone constitutes notable influence on that person. Cope!
Who was here for music class?
The darkest symphony I’ve heard. Such 😟.
Try Haydn’s Symphony 49 in f minor (‘La passione’).
gosh you can hear Mozart hearing this
Eric Dovigi
Haydn Symphony 39 (1767),
led to JC Bach Opus 6 No 6 (published 1770),
and Vanhal g1 (1771).
All three were heard by Mozart in Vienna, and led to Mozart Symphony 25 K183 (1773).
He was before Mozart ruclips.net/video/EKF0rUr2_iE/видео.html Let me sare of Berlin Concert of J.Ch. Bach in Moscow Tchaikovsky Conservatory. Enjoy please.
@@VALERYPOPOV Mozart met J.C. Bach in London and had some lessons. So he probably heard this symphony.
@@willemmusik2010Sorry, my mistake, cos we talk about son of J.S. Bach here.
@@willemmusik2010
The chronology for your suggestion does not fit.
Mozart met JC Bach in London 1764/65.
JC’s first set of six symphonies - Opus 3 - were only published in 1765.
JC’s Opus 6 No 6 was not published until 1770.
Mozart almost certainly first heard this g minor symphony by JC during a trip to Vienna in 1773.
In short, Mozart could not have heard JC’s Opus 6 No 6 in London as an 8/9 year old boy, because it had not yet been written.
What symphony of Bach is the 1680?
Ruh hastası mısınız olum? Vebadan kırılırken bunları hangi ara yazdınız?!
When you are running away from the Roblox admin
so this is Mozart ?
No, it’s the youngest son of Johann Sebastian Bach.
@@StephenLuke Well, I meant something different, obviously, since his name is clearly written here.
He plays like Mozart.
bach created 12 copies of himself
and they are one more beautiful than the other
I 24 Sacerdoti della N.A.S.A Grace Whitford Wilson ' Voglio avere tanti figli e mio padre è morto in guerra a causa della Religione '
It an anachronism to compare JC Bach to Mozart as he preceded Mozart and from hearing Mozart he stole his style from JC Bach. It seems to me his Bach name put him in the shadow of his father and Mozart assimilated his music and got famous from rearranging it and putting his name on it. Mozart is the most overrated composer and probably would have nver been Mozart without JC Bach's music to cultivate his ear and to leave to prosperity a treasure trove body of compositions that deserved much more recognition. Mozart must have loved JC Bach's music but had no conscience problem stealing it to make his own success. Especially in modern times the reverence people devote to mozart is largely usurped and fails to recognize the proximity of his music to JC Bach, instead they assume his whole style and inspiration to be genuine. Mozart was just another music hack , talented yes but injustice is done by attributing all his style and compositions to be original.
Mozart readily copied the 'gallant' style of JC Bach - but went on to craft what came to be known as the Classical style - Baroque to Rococo to Classical -
I couldn't agree more Eric,,,
Well no, yes Mozart definitely was taught by JC Bach you can hear it very clearly. But Mozart did expand what JC Bach was doing. Mozarts music reaches a depth that JC Bachs does not. I don't mean to say Bach is poor, he's not. He's excellent. But Mozart did some astonishing things with Bach's style. Having said all that, this symphony features a lot of things that can be heard very clearly in Mozart. There's a moment in the first movement that sounds almost exactly like a moment in Mozarts much later Prague symphony (or the Haffner can't remember which).
Totally agree. While a lot of Mozart has that sameness that JC Bach does not compare badly too, one should look at the heights (the later symphonies, the Requiem, the C minor mass, the late piano concertos and much chamber music ): that´s where the depth you point out becomes very clear and the difference between between the best Mozart and the best of these other composers. I must admit, though, Haydn´s best often stands well with Mozart, even though the former is always second-tiered.
Roberto Alexandre yeah Mozarts early symphonies are often pretty rubbish compared to JC Bach. Sadly Mozart was just getting fantastic when he died.
Pony