DIALED S2-EP15: What's going on inside your shock reservoir? | FOX
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Jordi shows what's inside a shock reservoir, and explains the purpose of an IFP (internal floating piston).
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Dialed S2E15 | What's going on inside your shock reservoir?
I'll watch anything that includes Jordie.
🤣
Yep, that dude knows his stuff and explains it very well - even entertaining. I might have paid attention in school if my profs were like Jordie.
Nailed it.
Blake Michal then start spelling my name right!
@@jordicortes4993, What is the recommended air pressure by fox? 100 or 150PSI ?
I didnt get much of this but i want to say that i commented on the first video this year and said that you should keep up the response to the comments this year i i must say that im really happy with how you give answers in the comments. Very good guys!
Nice video, as always. Love the Dialed series! For a future video I wouldn't mind seeing how your current fork dampers are mechanically unique, stuff other than adjustments. It would be cool to see the internal mechanical differences between GRIP, GRIP2 and FIT4. Are they all closed systems? Does only GRIP have a bleed port? Is there large performance differences between each?
Glad you're enjoying the series Zach, that sounds like a great episode, we'll try to work it into the mix. 👊
Zach Moore we did that with the damper a few weeks ago!
@@jordicortes4993 wasn't that just the new GRIP2? Do you have one that details FIT4? Is GRIP basically identical to GRIP2 other than needle/shim adjustments?
GRIP has a bleed port, but with regular maintenance it won't be utilized as an oil outlet much. It's mostly to keep a steady pressure on the damping fluid with the hole preventing air pressure build up. Steady oil pressure helps to prevent cavitation.
I’m loving these videos! Thank you for keeping us educated during shelter in place. Looking forward to running into Jordi in town someday. Cheers!
Actually saw Jordi on the trail today! That 38 looks killer!👍🤘
A video going into depth about HSC/LSC & HSR/LSR shim stacks/adjuster cartridges would be extremely helpful to people looking to firm up their valving or vice versa.
Love this Dialled series, interestimg demonstration always + with some tips,.. many thanks Jordi!
Jake, please stop/minimise showing your laptop especially when Jordi is trying to show a small part as showing your laptop makes the video from Jordi's camera so very small! (and some of us, or maybe most of us suscribers, watch these vids on smartphone, ie. small screen)
Thanks.
Interested in seeing an episode in response to the Vorsprung Fox 38 analysis in which they show dyno results that indicate the new 2021 VVC HSC has only about 1/5th the damping adjustment of the previous 2020 Grip 2.
Grey Goodin I’ve been holding back on my comments to this because it’s so basic, but sounds like it should be addressed
jordi cortes Yeah it seems like there could definitely be some misconceptions about this. Thanks for the response.
While at it .. lets get steve here as well
Bump stops on the vice handle! That’s a great addition and would have stop many a nipped finger during my engineering apprenticeship.
when you're mountainbiking for a while now and yet you feel like a total noob..god i love these videos like a wide eyed jaw dropped kid..😲
Cheers! glad you're enjoying the series! 👊
Thanks, guys! I used to think IFP meant Insane Fox Posse.
That works for us too 🤣
@@FOXFACTORY Water, fire, air, dirt... f**king air shocks, how do they work?
What is the difference between bearing, bushing, trunnion shock mounts?
Weight? Friction?
Trunion mounts can get more travel out of a shock for the same eye to eye measurement than a bearing bushing mount. They are also stiffer and resist rotational forces better.
Purely friction and in the case of trunion it makes the overall shock a bit easier to package. There is no difference in travel or function
Purely friction and in the case of trunion it makes the overall shock a bit easier to package. There is no difference in travel or function
jordi cortes i just bought a new 2021 DHX2 for my Megatower. With mounted Hardware it is impossible to change the spring without dismounting the Hardware. Why? Thats crap! You should fire the engineer!
@@wohli666 Wider shock mounts can offer better rigidity, so deal with it, and be happy Santa Cruz cares. Once the bushings break in a bit it should be easy to remove the hardware anyways.
If you wanted to get fancy with the compression canister, you could inflate it with nitrogen to keep the compression consistent.
1. The latest DHX2 and X2 shock revisions look much easier to work on. Or maybe I am just now realizing how much easier it is to work on a coil over air.
2. Is the screw in the middle of the IFP to allow easier damper bleed without a vacuum kit?
Alex Zondlo some people bleed that way. Its just an option
Jordi explains shocks so easily
love this series so much good information easily explained and understandable! Thanks!
Really enjoying these! How about a discussion about progressively wound springs-pro, con or whatever?
Kevin Brewster we talked about that in the q&a last week
Guys, it would be much better if you both recorded your sound and then used it in the video instead of using the Facetime sound of Jordi. I’ve seen this in some podcasts done recently and it improves the experience significantly. Apart from that - thanks a lot for the work you do even when it has to be quite uncomfortable for you ;)
Why do you guys choose to use IFP instead of a bladder !? Any vantages??
10 minutes on the IFP to explain how it works but not a word about why it’s there...
for those wondering : if you do not separate damping oil and air, they would end up mixing together as it shakes, leading small bubbles to go through the piston and ruining damping properties of the suspension ;)
Love the fact that Jordie is using a performance-series on one of his bicycles versus sticking to only running factory. Shows that he keeps in touch with what non-race riders are using! My topic suggestion is that you explain the mechanics of how shocks differentiate between high and low speed control. Also how is the speed defined that is used to delineate between high and low speed and does this vary across the Fox lineup?
burbs924 we’ve done that it quite a few episodes!
perfect video GIEF MOAR
Sweet video once again! . Let's see something regarding different shock tunes. And maybe Adress the window of adjustment; I.e. "if my shock has Medium tuning and it's wide open, should I get it built with a light tune?"
Maybe adress digressive rebound tunes as well. I love the techy stuff 🤣
I have a custom dpx2 on my Megatower and it's insane. Light compression, light/digressive rebound, firm lockout valve with remote 😶 fox rocks
The Suspension tech at my shop is the man 😎
Hey guys! Thanks for the video! Love it. But here is a question that i have, why are you still hold on to the IFP solution in the shocks. Is there a advantage over a bladder system? I am curious to know. Cheers from Germ-any
Loved this! Jordi explained this in a way that I completely understand it now.
All hail Sir Jordi !
A little off topic but once you find a good sag point on shock and fork. How much pressure plus or minus is recommended by jordi for different track conditions? I heard him say only go 3 psi to some of the pros in last years videos . I run 20% sag up front fox 34 and 27-30 in the back dpx2. Thanks guys! Videos are great!
Typically less sag in the front to help from brake diving. I've heard Jordi say that EWS Enduro guys run as low as 15% sag up front on steep courses and the typical 20-30% out back.
Whatever works
@@jordicortes4993 come on Jordi, thats not a proper reply, you're better than that surely ?
Can you show us how you would bleed a coil shock and how much oil does a shock normally take (230x65mm) as my Marzocchi bomber cr coil shock had leaked oil out the rebound adjuster. Now fixed now but feels like there is air in the system.
So interesting, what about cavitation?!
029-08-123
"thank you" Fox.
What about it?
Cavitation happens when the remote canister pressure can’t keep the oil from turning to a gas. You just need enough pressure. More pressure loads the seals more and caused more friction which is bad.
These videos are awesome! Thanks guys! I'd like to know more about deciding between adding volume spacers vs compression clicks vs PSI when you need the bike to stay up more (more support). I know that's often discussed in puzzling sessions in the world cup pits.
Harrison Fetter we talked about this in our setup videos last year
Will too much sensitivity cause your fork or shock to bob while pedaling?
How to on Stroke reducing spacers
This would be awesome! Would allow us to experiment with fully adjustable coils shocks on shorter travel bikes :)
Jordi your the best your in-depth knowledge of suspension is awesome I have learned a great deal
These #dialed edits are really helpful. I have a question: I'm running a FIT 4 36 and a DPX and I'd like them both to feel more plush on the initial part of the stroke (just after the sag point, in Open mode) without diving though their travel. I know I have (up to) three variables: air, spacers and compression damping. Which should I adjust, given that I'm not a particularly aggressive rider (just old and heavy 😂)?
Thanks guys to show the internal parts, 🔧🔩its a technical class✔...I'm lerning more features🚲 with the programme...as always 💯%👍
Great video and information. So my question is. When you get air in your shocks oil IS that a result of the IFP seals not sealing and therefore they need replacing OR would I need to check/replace any of the other seals aswell ? Oh, what is the screw for thats in the centre of the IFP? Is it used to screw into with a threaded tool and make it easy to remove the IFP ?
Is there any reason you've used a lower spec shock on your bike?
On a coil spring shock could a future option be an assister spring along with the main coil spring?
bobhope andnohope I felt like it
Got my daily dose of being inside Jordi's head 🧐 Thanks to both of you for keeping us educated and entertained 👊🤘
Can you pls ask jordi how the the fork and rear shoch coil and air will react with lighter riders like 50kg to 70kg and 160mm to 180mm of travel thanks
TYLER'S TRAIL MADNESS I’m not sure what the actual question is? Are you asking if a lighter rider should ride a coil?
Hi jordi sorry i didn't ask my question clear enouph.
I wanted to ask how a coil shock would act differently compared to a air shock with a light rider.
Thanks hope this makes more sense👊
It wouldn’t.
Top guy!!!!!!
I love this video series. So interesting.
What effect does suspension oil weight have on performance? What should we expect from "lighter" or "heavier" oil selections in the various sections? TIA
Far finail is the #dialed solution a the problem a of the compresión in the #ridefox chock reservoir piston? Well guy Jordi Cortés thanks a the video #foxdialed. Saluds from chile 🇨🇱🤘 😀 🤘 ♥️🚵🚴
Fork offset please, with a guest appearance from Greg and Marshy!
What mechanism causes the leaking of air and oil with the respect to the X2 shock. This has occurred twice on my particular shock....complete loss of rebound adjustment.
this was quite a good one - I dig it
What to do if instead of the cap the whole cylinder (together with the cap) gets unscrewed from the base?
Why does compression have to flow so much oil? Is it helped out by the damping on the bridge going into the reservoir enough for it to not need so much damping on the piston? Or is it actually the fact that compression damping force acts in the same direction as the spring does, while it's countering the spring in rebound?
Why don´t you tune the IFP pressure?
Does i make no difference / is too subtile to notice?
Is it too many variables to tune?
Coming from an average mechanic it would be cool to see what it’s like working as tech for Fox.
Eh beh bien
Do a DHX2 service guide or what the nitrogen in the shock does?!!
Thanks guys! Is nitrogen better than air in the res?
Matt Simon better, probably. Worth the trouble. No
@@jordicortes4993 thanks jordi! I was thinking the same. It seems like the difference in tires. There is a benefit but it doesn't seem like the cost and equipment is worth it for a shock.
If the oil needs someplace to go why don’t all shocks have reservoirs??
I guess I should have watched the whole video before commenting! Lol
Is there any reason an IFP could not be replaced with a piece of MCU (Micro Cellular Urethane) or similar closed celled foam/rubber, which can compress, but don't have the inherent friction of a seal which is needed for a piston?
I feel guilty as hell, I should be paying for this and am not- yet. I promise you guys,as soon as I’m on my feet better, I’ll pay up
don christie just keep watching
I love your shocks but its expensive here in Philippines i cant afford it😞
Is it a bad idea to add a little more float fluid, than the recommended 5mL, to the air can of a DPX2 to increase progressivity if your bike is too linear even with the biggest volume spacer already in the shock?
It’s not a good idea
Super interesting!
So good Fox, this is way more interesting than Netflix content! At 5:16 is the cylindrical black bumper/ring on the shaft (next to the tapered one from Jordi's left hand) the mythical stroke reducing spacer? Asking for a friend ;)
Kenji Walter no it’s just a bottom out bumper
Why negative airchamber volumespacer in the X2 metric? Lighter riders loosing lot of midstroke support and lowbumpsensitivity only to fit the shock for heavy and fat ones?!?
No. It’s related to bearing overlap
So, if ifp pressure isn't a good way to tune a shock, why the DHX RC4 and rc2 had a valve and even a volume reducer on their piggybacks?
Otávio Gonçalves why don’t we live in caves or use a horse and buggy?
It’s called progress. Every time we try to apply what we’ve learned in the past....
Does IFP pressure (or volume?) change for different shock strokes? I presume the reservoir volume is the same for all the different shock strokes, so how does a longer stroke shock (which will displace more oil) differ to a shorter stroke shock in regards to the IFP. Or is it simply that when you change the stroke the piston just starts further out of the shock body, creating the "increased" volume at the start of the stroke.
Nic Treadgold we actually don’t specify different ifp depths. The movement from shortest to longest shock really isn’t that much so we just make sure it clears all versions to keep it simple. On non resi shocks it’s stroke specific
Good question, and answer 👍🏼
when i pressurize my ifp chamber on my float x2 the service manual says 125 psi - so i pressurize it up to 125 remove the shock pump than reconnect the shock pump and i only have 80psi or 90 psi left in my ifp chamber - so i pumped it up to 170 and after disconnecting and reconnecting i had the desired pressure....is that an ok procedure? cheers guys - great video
When you reconnect your shock pump, the air from the reservoir chamber escapes and fills the line on the shock pump to equalize the system. Since the volume of air in the reservoir is so small, the “reduction” in pressure is large. The same thing will happen on the the air spring in a fork or shock but since the volume of air is so much greater compared to the volume in the shock pump line, the relative pressure loss is only a few PSI. If you have a pump with a zero loss valve, you can pre pressurize the shock pump line to your “correct” pressure before “opening” the line and the pressure should stay more consistent instead of trying to equalize between the pump and reservoir. When you fill your reservoir, stick to the recommended pressure and just know that when you reconnect the pump next time, air will escape and you will have to reset it back to the recommended pressure.
Why do some bikes have the shock mount position where the reservoir is facing down, towards the trail, and others have it facing up, towards the sky. Are there advantages/disadvantages to either position? Does performance of the shock change at all?
Doesn’t make any difference
Somtimes the ifp in a shock is a pressurized bladder. Why?
Wanna see how stroke adjustable seal head works
I need more of these videos here in germany. Keep it up
Great series. Easy to understand overview. Good camera angles too. Probably dont need the bg music when Jordi is explaining stuff :)
I hear a lot about some nitrogen filling process that has people running the other way because of "service friendliness" (I prefer the phrasing "the service is not unfriendly") Maybe you can shine some light on this
James Naughton maybe explain that more? I’m not quite understanding
@@jordicortes4993 You mentioned filling the resi with a shock pump? I thought it got charged with nitrogen like Fox's off road stuff?
jordi cortes I could be wrong but I think he means that because fox suspension has nitrogen charge and we everyday riders do not have the equipment nor the qualification to deal with that stuff, some of us choose other brands which may be more self service friendly. This alludes to the idea that other brands either have an easier “nitrogen filling process” or they simply don’t have a nitrogen charge (although I honestly don’t have any idea as to which is the case). I guess a lot of us have heard of this nitrogen charge but don’t know anything about it because it’s usually the reason that we’re told not to self service and it’s the reason that most local bike shops say “hey so we’re gonna have to send your shock to the factory”. It would be cool if you guys could do a comprehensive episode on this stuff.
I asked this question 2 weeks ago to GMBN tech. Nitrogen is better long term, less susceptible to temperature, doesn't absorb moisture, so when they ship it off from the factory they don’t expect the customers to get its straight away and like you said they don’t’ expect customer to do the service as often. it remains consistent. Normal air works fine its behaves the same as nitrogen but not good for long term.
Nope.
how does bleeding the shock oil manually compare to using an andreani machine or similar vacuum pumps? is there any negative effects from doing it manually as stated in the online service manual?
Erik Roman it’s slower and messier
I wish DPX2 had a schrader valve also.
Learning every day... nice video!!
The process of tuning after an initial setup
Simon Adams we did that in advanced setup video
"Pressure and chamber size in the piggyback are not a good way to tune a shock" *cough* DHX 5.0 *cough* ;-)
When he said this, DHX 5.0 and RC4 came in my mind instantaneously.
And this is neither of those so you don’t do it
That was very very useful. I read about shocks how works and also check my own and know totally how is the system, but Jordie always explains things simply and smartly.
There is something so calming about these Dialed videos. Haha
It is crazy how the Mechanics and Film teams become such an integral part to the sport. Like it is great to see Rachel Atherton, but I love seeing Jordi, Yanick, Marsh, the Scotland Crew and all the behind the scenes sometimes more.
Maybe a video on how to tune low end fork/shock since its always about hsr hsc lsr lsc, and i understand thats what the pror ride but i dont really benefit from it since i only have compression, rebound and air. ( i ride the performance stuff)
Pau Costa Graell it’s the same except when you go to adjust the hsc you don’t because it isn’t there
If you shouldn't try tuning the ifp, then is it worth playing with shim stacks?
Bernie Stebar I feel like if you’re asking this question then answer is no
Love the videos guys, keep them coming. Would be good to run through the differences in the new transfer posts for 2021 and what kind of servicing can be done with the new threaded collar.
how to pick a coil spring
Very interesting teardown. What is the song in the background/end of the video? It's so catchy!
it would be awesome to see a cheaper coil without external oil reservoir for comparison.
great video !!!!!
Upper Fork Sevice Fox 40
We did shoot this last season(ruclips.net/video/7BRUQjSFnB0/видео.html), but we will be giving you guys a closer look at the new 40 in future episodes!
Got cha
I would love a video on High Speed rebound. At the moment it's the thing i cant wrap my head around
KATETA Y00 it’s the same as high speed compression just turned upside down.
@@jordicortes4993 well yes, but like if I ride and something's off with my suspension, I don't know if it's the hsr or the lsr that needs changed, if that makes sense
Is the DPX2 IFP filled only with nitrogen? Can one use air instead? Is the X2 air or nitrogen?
Jeff Schroeder all this info is online
You eluded to air. I've always read nitrogen. Others appear confused too.
If the grip 2 damper have a ifp, do I need to keep it inflated? If so where is the valve?
Hey Guys, Love watching the episodes. I've got a 2019 Cube stereo 150 with the Float x2 on it and am having trouble getting proper sag. I've got the air psi maxed at 297 and am still not quite getting 30%. I weigh 230 lbs. Would adding air to the IFP chamber help?
You should check if you allready used the maximum amount of volume spacer in your shock
already has the max spacers in
Strange i run 220psi in the DPX2 factory on the same bike and its at 25% Sag....but I only weight 65Kg
@@Dovakhin94 sad, that would have been the easiest way to solve your problem.you should check if the right presure is in the IFP.
Yeah thats what I'm thinking too.
How would you advice in this scenario? Correct sag/air pressure, fully opened HSC/LSC but still feels harsh on square edge bumps? On a 2020 grip2 36
You can’t run zero damping
Thanks guys for the quality content, always a pleasure to watch your vids, there is so much to learn.
I have question for you: where can we regular users find and buy foam rings for 32/34/36 forks? Just the foam rings separately, not as a part of a seal kit. I can't seem to find them at the usual retailers as a separate product and i would love to use fresh foam rings every time i do a lower leg service.
Thanks and cheers!
Balint Sofalvi most bike shops or your local distributor
This video was so melodic and relaxing as it was engineer tech porn
can the new 36 VVC grip 2 damper fit in a 2020 36 fork?
Ryan G yup
Hey guys what shock pump is the most accurate?
Edward Gurley no idea. I use the free one
IMHO doesn't really matter, just use the same pump all the time so you can make accurate changes to your setup - you'll have 100% 'relative' accuracy for tuning, the 'absolute' accuracy isn't really anything to be concerned with.
bogler bill nice! I was thinking the same thing just wanted to confirm. Thanks!
Another quick question: troubleshooting the DPX2 EVOL on my Enduro. When I turn compression to firm, there is barely a difference versus wide open. It used to be much firmer. Coincidently I swapped the 0.4 volume spacer to 0.6, followed all the correct procedures per Ride Fox website (cycling 25% travel every 50 psi to equalize chambers) and went through the procedure twice with no difference in results. Any insight or advice you guys could offer?
jordi cortes sweet pickles thats awesome! 🤓 You guys must get all the great swag.
Which pressure would you recommend for a 2018 DHX2 Performance Elite?
Noah S I suggest you watch our videos
I love watching your videos. Thanks for the excellent content! I’ve read that people are using a higher pressure in the IFP chamber in order to strengthen the bottom-out-resistance. So I was thinking if that made any sense? According to your statement in the video, that isn’t a proper way of tuning a shock.. To be honest, I’ve been trying this with 170psi a few days ago but after watching this video I’m definitely going back to the factory recommended 150psi. :-)
People do all kinds of dumb things. Stick to the basics. All that info is on ride fox.com
Thanks Jordi!
Hey guys,
I’d love to hear your response to the tech Tuesday video from Vorsprung regarding the fox 38…
ruclips.net/video/lS-VzI2JbrI/видео.html