How Living at the South Pole Works
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- Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2020
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Writing by Sam Denby
Research by Sam Denby and Tristan Purdy
Editing by Alexander Williard
Animation by Josh Sherrington
Sound by Graham Haerther
Thumbnail by Simon Buckmaster
Select footage courtesy the AP Archive
References:
[1] www.coolantarctica.com/Bases/...
[2] www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.js...
[3] www.usap.gov/technology/docum...
[4] www.usap.gov/technology/1972/
[5] www.waste360.com/recycling/sa...
[6] www.washingtonpost.com/world/...
[7] beta.nsf.gov/science-matters/...
Musicbed SyncID:
MB016CDZARECXZR
What I really like about Wendover is there's no clickbait: the title's just a summary of the video topic and then he goes on and explains that topic in an understandable, engaging, detailed way. He lets the video do the talking, not the title
@@akauf2282 Both channels are from the same guy
@@akauf2282 there’s no way, Mr. Wendover is a well respected member of the RUclips educational community, James Halfasinteresting is just some buzzfeed style hack with a good mic and terrible writing
@@akauf2282 Both are run by the same guy, Sam Denby or something.
@@akauf2282 stop judging if you don't wanna watch him then don't hai is a whole different channel which comes with interesting and unique topics it's his style let him do it if you like it support if no don't spread hate just watch something else
I'm seriously concerned there are several people in this conversation who don't have any sense of humour.
"Should we get rid of the snow?"
"Nah, just lift up the house."
considering they use ice cores as timecapsules into the environment itd make sense theyd want it to build up
@@theshuman100 e
@@dogeboibeflying6244 e
@@theshuman100 Yet global warming is melting it all....lol
@@ksc5522 well at least the house wouldnt be so high up now
My grandpa was part of the team that was there in the 1950s originally. I had some of the clothes he wore restored recently - they are so warm that even in winter here, I still sweat in them.
Verifed
wow! friendly baron here
Holy shit baron, didn't know about that.
Nowadays, you can just buy the same coats from the Antarctica down jacket provider we commonly call Canada Goose... although they are nowadays filthy expensive.
My dad was stationed in North Dakota and I remember as a kid I liked putting on the jacket and gloves and hat. While probably not as extreme as your grandpas clothes they do make you so hot if it's not that cold
I was a South Pole winter-over from Nov 2015 - Nov 2016. I was one of the weather observers that helped the plane land in the middle of the dark. From the time we called for the Med evac to the time the plan landed at pole was about a 10 day period.
Wow ❤
What was your daily job there?
I was also there 15 -16 season
. I was supposed to W/O but had my season cut short due to concern over a recent back surgery. Alex replaced me and was half the reason for the winter evacuation of Susan... I know Barry also had a problem and I know much more than I should be comfortable posting here. Hello James (Oregano) It's Jeremy. (Carpenter)... Hope you and your family are doing well!! Best wishes.
These South Pole scientists are so isolated and live in such harsh conditions, they deserve the same respect as astronauts on the ISS
the south pole is far more isolated than the iss
I would pay for that.
@old one why is that
They are effectively living on another planet
@old one yeah, i wouldn’t say that astronauts get any especial respect. Maybe the ones that become politicians after and use being an astronaut as a platform?
I have a weird interest in the logistics of people living in absurdly remote locations, so thanks for fueling this weird hobby of mine.
There are dozens of us!
Welcome to the squad dude.
me too.
I just like random facts so this is still a good help for my quest to know the most random things
@@augustine868 The pursuit of esoteric knowledge is a very nice path. Plus, it makes you seem pretty smart in dinner conversations.
Having been one of the physicians that worked at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station - this is a very good introduction to what life is like there. Thanks for producing such an informative video.
Im spending 8 months at the south pole for a work contract starting January 19th 2023 so this was great to watch
Wendover in 2030: *The logistics of transportation on Mars.*
provided we ever did reach mars
We have to build a moon base before we can really move about on Mars. It's too far away and only is near to the Earth every two years.
hopefully by then
so likely until the next generation will we even be close to true interstellar travel
Wendover in 2030: The logistics of commercial airline flights on Mars.
Extreme isolation, near permanent darkness, completely frozen.
Sounds like a nice place
Also, in the summer it is very very bright! Eye protection is crucial
9/10, has a little something for everyone
Nope. The South Pole isn’t frozen enough. 2/10.
Sounds like paradise
For introverts sounds perfect. Alot of downtime to game.
That's one of the reasons I love The Thing from 1982, the sense of isolation and helplessness is unrivaled because of where they are.
By the time the pizza delivery guy shows up, the pizza is cold... 😒
Another note on communications at the South Pole: They have some amateur radio equipment that works around the clock for sending basic communications, or in emergencies. It's possible for researchers to send very rudimentary text communications using email, and if there's free time, occasionally someone will jump on and start talking. My university has received some of their communications in the past when conditions were just right. I don't think they rely on amateur radio much anymore, but it's still possible to sometimes make contact!
Really cool that we basically have a small town in the middle of the most inhospitable continent on Earth
But not worse than Detroit.
@@philipwebb960 Antarctica doesn't have an equivalent to Eminem and D12 either... :-(
There are around 50 of these small towns across different parts of Antarctica 🇦🇶
How can I colonize Antarctica to build a nation there?
Wendover in 2030: The logistics of transportation on Mars.
2:20 I love how a video about living in Antarctica still references the aerodynamics of plane wing. ✈️ ❤️
As is mandatory for this channel.
I have a weird interest in the logistics of people living in absurdly remote locations, so thanks for fueling this weird hobby of mine.
@@faseiolasec9770 copy cat!
@@faseiolasec9770 yea u copied
Or maybe they copied
"The building itself is shaped like an AIRPLANE WING"
You got me there.
I wintered over at the original South Pole station 1971-72. Very primitive conditions compared to the luxury the current crew now has. Nevertheless, the weather and remoteness make it a very inhospitable place.
Polar scientist here, was there in Jan./Feb. Really enjoyed the video! First of yours that I've seen, but you hit on some of the small details of the day-to-day that I haven't ever heard any other doc mention.
COVID completely disrupted our planned instrument deployment this year. We were only able to get the 2021 winter-over down, no summer-only personnel at all. The first flight in - "station open" - was just this past Saturday (Sunday there - they use NZST), and he was on it, after leaving the US all the way back at the beginning of October. Quarantines in San Francisco, Christchurch, and McMurdo, and then the inevitable weather preventing the planes from flying from McMurdo->Pole (but that happens every year).
Thank you for what you do. You are an inspiration to us all.
Man you're cool.
Crazy how during this whole pandemic the people in antarctica have been chilling in darkness
It's stupid how the media and government basically updated y'all's routine and process over a simple virus. Covid is peanuts compared to anything else.
@Halcon Serrano exactly
As a former Antarctican, this is remarkably accurate. Thank you for being one of the best RUclips content creators.
Reminds me of a joke told in the RAF:
- How can you tell when a fighter pilot enters the room?
- You don't need to, he'll tell you.
Liar! the earth is flat! What are you hiding from us???
@@carlosandleon LOL!
Just out of curiosity, can you give us more info on day to day life?
Hey, thats really cool! What was it like?
Dude I have watched countless documentaries over the South Pole. Nine of them was as informative and educative as yours. What a talent! Please keep up the good work :)
I considered working at the South Pole as a logistics manager when I retired from the military. Living conditions are probably very similar to what the first settlers on Mars will face.
A good deal easier than Mars. Plenty of fresh air and lots of fresh water (after it's melted). But there are some similarities.
No one will ever go to Mars or the Moon.
@@godsbeautifulflatearth Agreed, but your username is dumb
@@godsbeautifulflatearth whatever flat erather your brain is probably flat too since you wrote this comment
@@godsbeautifulflatearth i don’t know about ever but probably not in my lifetime
Who knew the long night at the South Pole is 6 months longer than the Long Night in GoT...
fuck game of thrones season 8, but also want to add that it's only fully dark for about 3-4 months. The sun does go down for 6 months, but a majority of that time the continent is in twilight, although the darkest Twilight(Astronomical) is pretty close to full darkness.
Ha! I just realized that GoT ended before winter really got terrible. If the show went like the books then right after Westeros was destroyed by war an at least decade long winter is supposed to take place. Since they had an abnormally long summer before the show began. Let’s hope the books are good enough to warrant a remake of the show
🤣
Winter started in like season 7 right?
Same as the north pole 🤦🏻♂️
Antarctica is like another planet
-Hard to get in/out
-In some periods getting out is totaly impossible
-nobody really know who owns that land
-wierd day light cycle
-Extreme cold and other conditions
-Have to be self sufficient
-Slow internet and communication
@@JaylemagnifiqueGame That's debatable since he mentioned its average height from sea level is high enough for some people to get sick. But otherwise, yeah, you're right.
It is still a tropical paradise compared to Mars or Moon
@@KateeAngel Moon isn't frigid the same way Mars is. The average daytime surface temperature quickly reaches up to 120°C (250°F). Because of no atmosphere, everything exposed to the Sun quickly heats up, while everything in the shadow radiates all that heat very quickly. During the night temperature quickly falls down to -130°C (-208°F).
Long story short:
On Moon - During the day you get sunburned. During the night you freeze to death. So you get to experience two hells in one day :D
No, you don’t have to be self-sufficient. If that were the case, there wouldn’t be massive ships of supplies going in and out all year.
Which is why I feel that we, as a species aren't ready to migrate over to another planet or even the moon entirely since we've barely only colonized Antarctica. The difficulties of survival on Antarctica will be miniscule compared to another world.
I'm so glad you did this! I've been wanting a South Pole video for ages after I fell in love with the idea of visiting. Now all I need is a degree in conservation, and hope.
Great video, my sister will be part of the 2020-2021 overwinter crew at Amundsen-Scott. You did a good job covering the COVID challenges. She had to spend many weeks at each stage of her trip in quarantine to get from facility to facility.
Technically, Antarctica is the smartest continent
As someone who personally has two friends who did a winter at McMurdo station, I can confirm they did it just for fun and not that they were scientists
They're smartest individually, but not as much innovation comes out of there since there's so few of them.
How can I colonize Antarctica to build a nation there?
Been there; agreed.
*statistically
it’s all fun and games until the fire nation attacks you
Don't worry I have hope in avatar he would restore the balance
@@felineboy1586
But first, he needs a little training.
Antscanada?
Haha
The fire nation is the humans, their weapon? Climate Change
I'm proud that we, Czech Republic, could help with the research and that we hlavě our polar stations too. And I see that it is about prestige too. :)
Excellent documentation! Thanks for making this possible...
"-12°C -a temperature that most the world would consider absolutely unbearable"
Me, a Canadian: but that's hockey weather!
Yeah. -12C is unbearable? I know friends in Yakutia, there kids go to school when it is -30C ...-40C
@@KateeAngel yes, to the vast majority of the world's population, below freezing isn't comfortable.
A norwegian here, school closes at -30 - this only happened twice in my childhood - and those were not the days I remember as bad (usually clear skies and sunshine) -5 with strong winds and rain is the worst
@@Flimzes in my country (finland), my school has never cancelled and the coldest it has been is -45. I live in utsjoki, 500km north of the arctic circle
@@jole0000 That is super cool, were you expected to walk to school? Driven by parents? Or was some shuttle arranged?
“The South Pole was not made for humans”
Probably more accurate to say that humans were not made for the South Pole.
Indeed, is anywhere really “made for humans” (or any animal) to begin with? I doubt that the South Pole thought “nah, I don’t like those humans” and was deliberately designed to be hostile, rather than humans lacking the ability to deal with the habitat.
@@fetchstixRHD it's a figure of speech
Exactly my thought
@@fetchstixRHD Cities are made for Humans.
@@ScootsMcDootson cities are made by humans, but by their scale and infrastructure, it can be argued they are more made for vehicles rather than humans.
Very interesting video I remember watching this back a year ago in high school when it first came out. Now I’m back to watch it again just because it’s so cool (ironic). I actually just finished a college course on this and part of my inspiration for doing so was because of this video. I definitely didn’t regret doing so, had a lot of fun learning more about it!
friend of mine had his apppendix removed on the german science vessel 'polarstern' back in the 90's. He achieved a couple of firsts there: his first major surgery, the first major surgery performed by that doctor (not a surgeon) as well as in that brick... on his second turn, he bashed his head open and needed sutures, just for good matters.
As someone who personally has two friends who did a winter at McMurdo station, I can confirm they did it just for fun and not that they were scientists
Were they part of the upkeep/maintaining crew? What kind of stories did they have? I've heard there's a shocking amount of sex because there's nothing else to do a lot of the time, which gets very awkward in such a small population
@@RaidsEpicly Wouldn't surprise me. Isolated for months, almost always inside, cold and no entertainment except computers.
@@GodlikeIridium There's still plenty of entertainment options. Basically anything that's portable and can be run offline is okay, as well as some indoor games (like snooker or foosball tables). So books? Check. Movies? Check. (Offline) Games? Check. Hard drives full of tentacle porn? We don't judge. About the only thing you can't do is shoot some hoops outside.
How did they manage to get selected to go therer and what was their jobs?
One of my cousins went twice for summers. Most of the work he did was securing cargo. The weather was often better at McMurdo than where he was from in Wisconsin.
I have had the pleasure of living down there this past summer. So fun fact, everyone has a constant nose bleed due to the dry air. Also, because your body works so hard to get oxygen, your hands and feet are constantly drenched in sweat. In my first 2 weeks there, I lost 10 pounds by doing nothing but trying to survive. Thanks for this video! If you have more questions feel free to send me a message!
I lost over 30 pounds while twice as much as I usually do. Town electrician, summer of 2007-08.
This really isn't intended as a pun, but this is the coolest video on your channel so far :D
Thank you, the South Pole is extremely fascinating, as is the research going on there.
Thank you, Sam and Co. Another excellent and informative video.
The prevailing wind at the south pole is northerly.
That's true. But we used a grid and report winds as Grid North etc.
Which South pole?
That's not true the only wind that could approach (blow towards) the south pole would have to come from the north. there is nothing south of the south pole therefore no wind could come from the south However all wind leaving the south pole would be northerly. .....Oh, damn I have done it again. I have confused myself. I should just stick to the east and west.
but the earth is flat lol
Living at the South Pole seems incredibly Idellic, and yet terrifying at the same time
Yeah perfect place to not be distrurbed and do a D&D game with your mates. But you only have so long to get the dice in.
As someone who worked two contracts there (one summer only, one full year) - it is amazing and (for me at least) not that scary. Awareness of the possibilities keeps you cautious, but spending a year with 40 of your closest friends is priceless
I’m gonna rewatch this a lot cause those images and videos from the south pole are insane
Those staying over the winter are all badasses.
Check out the Southern Cross expedition Of 1898-1900, they wintered over In a prefabricated hut. 10 men.
7:30 The "m" in "mbit" should be capitalised as it is a prefix denoting "mega".
millibit
Obviously they're referring to a value that is 1/1000 the size of a bit
@@Geerice while I know that's a joke, it gives rise to an interesting thing to ponder - it is impossible to transmit a fraction of a bit of information. A bit is either transmitted or it isn't.
@@butwhowasmoto2739 Yeah you can. In orthogonal encoding bits are broken into smaller parts called chips. The nature of the coding allows many people to see the same transmission but only be able to interpret their part. As you can imagine this is great for cell phones.
@@butwhowasmoto2739 And adding to what @Joe Momma said, even if a fraction of a bit were impossible to transmit, you could still get a fraction speed per second, simply by not transmitting bits every second.
Spoiler: it's cold.
Also, pray that Kurt Russel isn't there.
No, pray that he IS there when the aliens come
Is this a reference to a movie or something because I don’t get it?
@@TheLiamster The Thing (1982)
Macready sus
*Macready was not the impostor*
Stock up on flamethrower
Truly beautiful music in this video by the way!
this showed up in my recommended again after going down a bit of a south pole rabbit hole, but if youre interested in this subject i recommend checking out viktor from Gone Venturing, he's served multiple winters at the south pole as well as the slightly more populated McMurdo station closer to the coast and has posted a lot of videos about it including a full tour of the Amundsen-Scott south pole station. very fascinating.
14:00 “it’s more important that we present ourselves professionally” yet one of the ladies is barefooted 😂😂
Can't see feet on a zoom call.
She knows her boss has a foot fetish.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn Hers look a bit like meathooks
glad im not the only one who noticed it lmao
The Internet Connection in Antarctica is still 10x than my wifi when it’s placed on another room
Congratulations 🎉👏 of being the top comment 👍😁 (as of now 😈)
Count again, this time per person with a laptop :)
This stuff is so interesting. Love it!
I got to say, once you get over the unusual speech pattern, this is hands down, one of, the best youtube, channels.
Seriously, great job.
Unusual speech pattern? What do you mean?
Drinking game idea: Take a shot when you hear: "in addition", "therefore", and "however."
Other idea:take a shot whenever wendover mentions planes in a video
Hard to do when the whisky froze
Perfect physical health? Yep
Can deal with the isolation? Yep
Spotty internet connection? ...I don't think I'd survive in Antarctica
There's a pretty good internet connection at McMurdo, though it's sometimes a bit slow.
At South Pole we had satellite internet 9 hours per day when I was there summer of 2007-08, depending on when the satellites were in the right position - then we lost one and still had 7 hours per days - though it moved forward a few minutes each day so it wasn't always the same time of day. They also had another satellite that they didn't offer to regular workers there, but which was available for emergency communications and for short emails 24/7.
Hopefully they have a better connection now, but it's not quite as bad as you might think.
^ this. My physical health is great and I was social distancing long before COVID-19, but by God, I would not want to live without internet access.
@@alanlight7740 Just lay down a fiber optics cable bruh
@@markusklyver6277 - LOL - easier said than done.
You know those glaciers are constantly moving, right?
Amazing material!
This would've been better if you'd included some information about the other 30 plus Permanent Antarctic Stations, many of which are also manned all year round and are available to provide some limited support to the other stations in an emergency.
was going to say this. he also placed Christchurch wrong
The SP station should have those soviet designed crawlers stored in a garage just for evacuation purposes.
Salute to all pilots who make life at the coldest place on earth inhabitable. Risking their lives to save others. This line made me tear up.
I worked at Palmer station during the 2016 evacuation from the South Pole! We spent days on the glacier prepping it for a potential emergency landing. Fortunately however everything went smoothly and we weren't required to assist in the flight.
Watching this video reminds me of anime called _"Sora yori mo Tooi Basho" (A Place Further Than The Universe)_
Also... *"The Thing"*
I actually have a family member who has been at amundsen-scott for the last 2 years (minus the mandatory time off-ice). You actually released this video at an amazing time because the transfer of the winter over crew to the summer crew is going on right now. My family member is supposed to be flying home within a week.
You can thank them for the fact that the station is still operational.
Also, i love your videos wendover, and if you want to make more Antarctic videos and want a primary source, i am sure I can convince them to share what they can.
I wonder who your family member is. I was there with them in 2020.
Guys I need clarity, is the narrator here the same person as Half as interesting or am I just confused.
Of course not
No he is the same person. Which is surprising because it would be hard to run 2 channels at once especially with how often HAI posts. Even with people helping him
Nah, that guy Sam over at HAI hates "that idiot over at Wendover Productions".
Realifelore, half as interesting,wendover production are same person
No they absolutely hate each other
It's like being back in college. Stayed indoors, studied and socialised with dorm mates and barely coming out except for exams.
you can also visit the South Pole station, i've seen torist packages for a 7 week long expedition costing around $30k, or even an AirBnb internship program for a month, which I applied to last year and nearly got in, but I was one out of 214,000 applicants. In the end, a varied team of 6 scientists were selected for free.
If you're going to spend that long there, might as well get a job and get paid.
We saw some tourists come in, but none stayed even as long as 48 hours.
Very good video, thank you for sharing.
4:19 that's one of the most beautiful landscape shots i've ever seen
No one:
Sam: The building is shaped like an airplane wing 👁👄👁
I don't get the point of your comment...
@@Lucasthemann then you don’t watch enough wendover!
@@EE-sw3uh explain then
@@nou6206 basically, the guy really likes airplanes
Great video as usual. I was always curious how internet worked there. However, I should point out that for Astronomy, the Atacama desert is better for viewing stars than the South Pole. For instance the Very Large Telescope operates there. They also have one of the most remote hotels in the world, it may be interesting to do a video on them actually...
0:36 - Clifton 4th Beach, Cape Town, South Africa 🏖️🇿🇦 With the Twelves Apostles mountain range in the distance, which forms the back of the iconic Table Mountain ⛰️
All gangster till “The Thing” starts attacking the base
i can feel the presence of plane facts
Ok
I did 4 winters and 2 summers at the South Pole Station. Had no problems whatsoever doing it. Actually miss going there for winters.
my uncle lived in antarctica for a year doing reaserch in the 80's and he had to have his appendix removed too. I'm not sure how things are now but back then everyone had to do it at least on the Argentinian base
About to head over for my first season at Mcmurdo this summer
Have fun wasting taxpayer money.
A upload on the right channel!!!!
OMG !!! NO WAYY!!
Great video. Thank you :)
Would love to see a video about Kenn Borek Air, what's the history of that service!? Seems pretty amazing.
"this year the challenges and risks are even bigger"
Everyone who has lived through 2020: oh there we go again
This is why I will not believe in Mars colonization hype before we can safely live at the South Pole for YEARS without external support
Small steps right.
Although I get what your saying, i think its important to see that its specifically not designed to be viable for years. If we wanted it to be able to be viable for longer we could.
when 3D printing advances even more we'd be golden
I don't understand why people don't try to set up an experiment like that there, on the pole. It would be a great start
Th problem is that it, unlike a Mars colony, doesn't need to be isolated for years at a time.
Fascinating stuff! I would really love to visit the pole one day, just so I could say that I’ve been there. Stay well out there everybody, and Jesus Christ be with you friends.😊
Great video. Thank you.
South Pole is unreachable to rest of the world for 6 months
Introverts: sounds like heaven 😂
The other 44 scientists inside the station: "Allow us to introduce ourselves"
Especially when Starlink is fully built and they have excellent internet 24/7.
@@Needkey. That still assumes Starlink satellites bother to fly over the poles. They're still subject to financial factors, just like the other internet satellites mentioned in the video.
@@gargravarr2 The polar orbit launches are already planned, and money isn't an issue thanks to the NASA and DOD contracts! Starlink is their plan to make money, and you gotta spend money to make money.
Except for Ken Borek Air
I've been to the US station at the South Pole. I spent most of my time at McMurdo, though. I did a winter over on the ice.
I went from home in the middle of the US, a layover and then to Christchurch, NZ. There, we were issued all of our winter weather gear and eventually put on a US Air Force C-17. We flew from NZ to Willie's Field right by McMurdo.
Hi sam it's my B-day tmrw. I've been watching you for 4 years now and I'm turning 13. I hope u have a nice year❤
Loved this video very much.
No motor vehicles northwest of the station.
What does "northwest" mean, here? Isn't every direction away from the station north? Which is west?
Opposite of southeast. Yes, that's the point of directions. Opposite of East.
Okay, on other hand, draw plus sing in middle of stay area according to south and north pole and you get your directions.
I got a stroke reading that
Worked at McMurdo for 5 months. I really miss it.
So fascinating, thank you 😊
I've been inside the mechanical pivot on the south pole telescope and it's one of the most impressive things I've ever seen.
I can't stand the heat and humidity with all my illnesses, especially my copd and other breathing difficulties. I always thought it would be great to live in Alaska or the south pole. You just changed my mind, I'll suffer here.
Blooper reel: "It's tough to understate..." should have been it's tough to overstate...
How in the world does Wendover get access to all this info. Wow! Great stuff.
Thanks for this video
10F -12C "unbearably cold"
**Laughs in Minnesotan**
They said that was the warmest it got. They also said most of the time it is -50 degrees...
Record is -89C iirc.
If Wendover productions takes themselves as a professional institution, why does your intern not wear shoes at the desk? 13:57
Stock footage
It's probably very aloof outside of their job hours. People need things to do. Games, sports, fellowship, sex, etc.. it happens all the time, but their jobs are the important bit.
Excellent video
The lowest recorded relative humidity was 0.03% in Iran with an air temperature of 46.5 and a dew point of -33.2 (both in degrees Celsius).
they finally uploaded to the right channel
I have spent 4 winters and 2 summers there over an 8 year period. Yes, an interesting place for sure. Most of this film was taken at McMurdo, there are no mountains or hills there.
Well put together video
Time zone?
Amundsen-Scott station located on the South Pole observes New Zealand Standard Time (NZST) during standard time and New Zealand Daylight Time (NZDT) during the DST.
No one:
Sam: Therefore
Therefore, the science
Literally dying at the line "stuck indoors, in a cramped space, in close quarters to others, for a entire year." Hunny, that's called living in NYC during the pandemic.
great info, thx
I have to go there -not visit but live there for a bit. Seems like a great place to find out what you're really made of.