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I never played a TCG before, so SWU is my first. And I really like the game. It is so good. And since I am all new into TCGs, I dont have the history of FFG and such. My feeling sometimes is that the community almost talks and speculates the game to the grave. It confuses me. I want the game to flourish and evolve and want to focus on telling that story and to hype the game. Am I naive? Maybe. Probably. About what you said about Karabast. Karabast is THE reason why I decided to buy in and start spending a lot of money on the game. Same with a lot of others I play with locally. With a full-time job, kids, and house, there is no way for me to get into the game without something like Karabast. If it would be banned without an alternative, I would, with high probability, leave the game. So, fingers crossed.
As someone who has played games with rotation and without rotation for years I think anyone who doesn't want a rotation is new to TCGs and doesn't understand how stagnant metas can get and how it can kill interest in a game. Do people still want to keep playing if every tournament they go to they face and see Sabine topping? Will people keep going to tournaments if that's all there is? And If Sabine is power crept out is it still fun if you have to buy every new set because of power creep anyways? Isn't power creep just a pseudo rotation anyways but one that forces the game to become super ridiculous super fast? Do we want a YuGiOh style of power creep rotation where the game devolves into turn 1 wins and tier 1 decks that require spreadsheets to sequence correctly? Is that even the same game? Also if nothing ever rotates how expensive do top old cards get if they don't get constant reprints. Do people get priced out like in Legacy or CEDH where decks costs tens of thousands of dollars or even modern where top decks cost almost a thousand? Do they reprint them into the ground to keep them affordable to stop the vast playerbase from being priced out and destroy all value of any cards? Non-rotating formats only help people who get in on the ground floor and naturally gatekeep new players. A game HAS to rotate to survive, whether with regular rotation or unhinged power creep. One is clearly better for a games longevity than the other. That said there probably doesn't need to be a rotation for like another two years so don't even sweat it until then. The move to a three year standard rotation in Magic has been fantastic for the formats health and it's arguably in the best spot it's been in in years.
They should be able to handle this with a forbidden/limited list updated more often than once a year. There are a few problems I have with full rotation, with this game especially. First off, this game relies on traits and density of traits or certain cards. Rebel is a good example. Rebel is one of the single most recognizable star wars terms and factions. If you remove set 1, what happens to rebel? You lose the only leader who cares about it and 90% of the cards associated with it (including the only really usable ones) . The biggest plot note of star wars becomes a forgotten note in the game. Do they have to reprint the entire core of the rebel trait every 2 years to make sure it's still available? Second, it's a huge middle finger to players who have been buying cards to get the playable legendaries. Sorry your 3 copies of home one are useless now, it's not doing anything disruptive in the game right now, but rotation.... Third, everyone keeps saying rotation just creates main and legacy formats, it's fine. Yes, it's fine for magic who has 20 or 30 players on game night. Are we sure we want to split SWU which is seeing 8 or 10? Will swu survive a player split like that? Will it survive people walking away because their favorite mechanic is rotated out instead of updated or they don't like the current rotation? SWU really needs to consider a forbidden limited list. Ban the overplayed or problematic cards and leaders, let the rest stay. Nobody is going to care if people are playing 95% of these cards. Let the keywords, traits and variety live and grow with the game
@@jurajkraus Clearly you didn't read anything I said, if the game dies because people are price gated out, your cards will become worthless, if your cards are power crept out to avoid that, your cards will become worthless because they wont be viable. Either way your cards will eventually become worthless in the end. TCGs aren't investments. You will always lose long term cost investments if you play them. If anything having a rotation to slow power creep and having a secondary legacy format is the best chance for your cards to hold value.
Outside of the online client I think the other thing that SWU will need to do to survive LONG term is get into the big box stores. There are way more Walmarts/Targets/etc than there are LGS. There are many medium size towns that have a Walmart or Target that do not have an LGS. I can walk into a local big box and find Magic, Pokemon, Lorcana, or One Piece. If you get SWU up next to those you will see a much larger reach in exposure to people who would never think to walk into a LGS.
For Star Wars Destiny it was set 7. Personally I’m planning on waiting till set 7. I already have an agreement with my LGS to buy Spark of Rebellion booster boxes from distro for super cheap ($10-15/box) to help clear out inventory from distro.
Yeah makes sense. I bet there will be some cards that are ever green. They should look into making leaders evergreen and doing something like Flesh and Blood did with their heros and "retiring" them after so many event wins.
In my opinion, rotation needs to mean 2 formats (like Standard and Vintage) which also needs to mean to sanctionned formats and this also means dividing some of the community. It is the one thing that scares the most for the future of the game. Some will like standard, some will prefer vintage, some will like both and ultimately some will likely leave. My gut tells me the game should already focus on surviving more than splitting its player base. As you said, Karabast be the only online way to play instead of having our own MtG Arena.
Like anything else, people lose their minds over stuff they don’t understand. I played the original Decipher Star Wars CCG, but have otherwise avoided CCG’s since then - until SWU. I appreciate why the idea of rotation is gut level unappealing to people. But if you think about the games longevity, there really isn’t a solution that doesn’t involve rotation. Even if they don’t rotate whole sets they need to start banning individual cards to the point where in practice it isn’t any different. It comes down to realistic expectations. How long do you think the game is going to last? I don’t expect it to live forever. But I imagine a ten year run. If you want the game to live for ten years, you have to imagine people entering the game in year 5. If there’s 15 sets of cards released and all of them are “evergreen” there’s just no way for them to get into the game. Rotation with a healthy balance of revised/reprinted cards and new cards is the only practical way to keep the game healthy for such a long period of time.
I wouldn't expect a rotation for a few years, but a ban/limited list would be very nice. Like revise it every set or two. Some cards could probably be at one without making certain decks bad while still make other decks slightly more viable. Like Luke and Vader could definitely be at one.
As someone who's basically brand new to these kind of games, rotation scares me some. I recently invested in some cards so I can play in my local PQ and other tournaments and at least be semi competitive, and that's not really something I want to have to keep doing over and over again. I'd be in favor of them doing a leader rotation where only certain leaders are allowed, but I'd want that to be an actual rotation, meaning it's a cycle where, for example, say in 2026 you aren't allowed to play sabine or OG Han, but eventually they come back into the competitive scene.
I've played CCGs for a long time, and trust me when I say, rotations are a good thing. I remember being very bummed out when I couldn't play with some of my existing cards, but understood the value of rotation when I wasn't seeing the same cards in every game. How many time can you play against Jango P-38 -> exhaust before you get bored. It also stems the flow of power creep to an extent. Newer cards have to be stronger or people won't want to play them (meaning the don't spend money) and the game slowly dies out. Finally, there's also the opportunity to create new archetypes that wouldn't be viable before because certain cards existed. Or you want to create a new type of damage card but can't because a better card already exists. For comparison, Yu-Gi-Oh is one of the biggest card games that doesn't have rotation and many times their games can end on turn 1. While I doubt that would happen in SWU, it's easy to see how more powerful cards can create more and more complex decks that end up breaking formats. Best to clean sweep stuff away every few years and keep things fresh.
At this point rotation and a legacy format is proven to be the best thing long term for a game. It keeps interest, provides entry points, and helps maintain value of cards. When I got into this game recently it was one of the first things I asked the guy who runs SWU at the local store. I was skeptical getting into this game because of my previous experience with FFG (AGOT, X-Wing and their first SW game). All those games crashed and burned because while innovative, they ignored realities of the TCG marketplace. I am really glad to see that they are making better decisions with this game.
I feel like I will be a lot less interested in keeping up with this game when rotation starts happening. I am enjoying constructed events, but rotations is what keeps me from enjoying standard in MTG. I only play commander and twin suns is definitely no commander.
Set rotation will kill this game and be the final nail on the coffin like it would kill one piece if they ever did it. Games like this with leaders thrive off having so many options and bringing back archtypes and leaders with new cards making them viable again
Karabast is amazing, without it I would never set up my deck. It's hard to find time for commute to local store and gather people to play there. Unless they deploy free to play SWU Online service it will die without Karabast. It's a reason I'm buying more cards, as I want to have nice deck. Maybe I will feel confident enough to go to local tournament because of Karabast.
@@zors5188 not the person you asked, but I havnt played in a bout 2 or 3 months. Personally for me, Boba was toxic and I was tired of playing against it every single week at constructed, it being a virtual auto win at draft nights and being 60% of the meta at competitive. Then they banned it, I breathed a huge sigh of relief, but then immediately really havnt liked set 3. It's interesting except the core mechanics don't feel playable with this few options and no more are coming. Whole thing feels kinda wasted right now. And with no drafts happening locally to play just that set, I've fallen out of love with the game a bit.
As a former Androd Netrunner player, sometimes success or failure is out of FFGs hands.
21 день назад+1
Maybe netrunner would have add a chance at a CCG and not a LCG. But people (including me) thought that having a LCG was 'better' but that was not counting how much the casino aspect of TCG is important for the game to succeed long term.
Android Netrunner went for at least 6 years, and from what's been shared publicly, their final year was strong for sales and organized play. The game ended because they failed to reach an agreement with WotC for the game license. Disney could just as easily decide to go another direction with the Star Wars license or raise its price to an untenable amount. The LCG format probably has a lower audience size cap than a TCG/CCG, but I think they showed a competitive LCG can work. There are other LCGs going that arguably feel more like board games chugging along just fine.
As someone that has played every star wars titles, i completely disagree with you. its starts with FFG and ends with FFG. they need to just stick with non competitive games. just make boardgames its fine.
They need to keep set 1 as the "Core", there are too many critical cards in that set to ditch it. OOOHHH I got 2 of my comments quoted!! That's like winning an award! I'd like to thank my friends, everyone else who knows me and the academy! :)
I wouldn’t object to this, but there are some cards in set one that need to eventually leave the game. Overwhelming Barrage being the biggest one. There are cards that are simply too ubiquitous. Unless they start banning or restricting things more aggressively they are going to need to rotate things eventually.
I'd prefer they rotate all the sets and reprint the ones they want. Because they are so many staple cards, they tend to restrict ideas or force power creep. Like, if they wanted to print another discard card in yellow (please don't), it has to compete with Spark of Rebellion at 2 cost. If they make it 3-cost and give it another bonus, do people even care and still run SoR? A core set that can have cards added and removed works well in something like Hearthstone where it's all digital and can be updated to everyone in a single patch. That's much more difficult in a paper game.
They have said they do have rough drafts beyond 9 sets. But that 6 were in completed to physical testing, and 7-9 are currently in the design phase, and sets 10+ were still in the theme design phase. So 9 sets currently in a good spot or complete, 10 and later in rough draft mode
Rotations work when there are established, thriving formats for people to use as outlets to play their rotated cards. Twin Suns really hasn't hit that mark, so SWU doesn't have it. I knew they were considering rotations but as soon as it was basically confirmed, I've ducked out. Money's better spent on Magic in that case.
In a game where so much of the game relies of so much else of the game, I'm not looking forward to a full rotation at all. 'rebel' trait would become meaningless and unplayable with no sets on the horizon to bring it back for instance. What I would like to see is more of a yugioh forbidden, limit, semi limit system. That way they can rotate out overpowered or overused cards while leaving some of the good utility be. Are you going to reprint or replace takedown or superlaser tech or waylay every 3 sets to make sure they don't get rotated?
Not a fan of a rotating format. It will split the already dwindling player base and would need a lot of reprints. They are better off banning problematic cards until they are eventually power creeped out.
The problem with that is yugioh. It is an eternal format, and it's unplayable. Turn 1 is basically almost all that is played. Eventually, new card types in swu may make that end up in a similar state, depending on card design in the future of the game and how they may interact with older cards. At least with Twin Suns, it is singleton format. Less frequently will that broken combo be seen in a twin suns game if everything is at one.
@@manwithnoname9580this is because yugioh ban list and their game at this point are purely profit driven. They stopped caring about the longevity of their game 15 years ago and are intentionally power creeping and not banning cards to make more money off them If ffg actually cared about the game, an forbidden/limited list could be quite effective over a rotation. Having cards I can't play is a big reason why I have never been a big investor in TCGs and honestly, depending on how rotation is handled, it might chase me out of this one. I'm already playing a lot less than before
@@manwithnoname9580 Yugioh is a bad example in my opinion. That game is 20 years old and Konami never stopped power creeping in every new set. That's why cards now have a book printed on them with rules, three effects, probably an omni negate and get banned or restricted after a year. SWU is resource based and you can only take one action, so your opponent always has a chance to do something. That already limits a lot of broken stuff happening. If we look at MTG, they printed around 6000 cards last year, 4000 of them are reprints over all the different sets they released. And it feels like that every week there is a new product to buy. That's also not a future I want for SWU.
@xIKeepaIx the best example I can give then is Legends of Runeterra. Before they introduced a rotation, it was becoming less fun, and it was reaching power creep to the levels of being unplayable right before they introduced a rotation. I was a huge fan of the game before rotation was even a thing. But it was problematic without rotation. It was also a resource system and played basically just like SWU, but with instant to perfect speed, and a slightly different combat system where you have the combat action of choosing as many units as you want to attack vs going one at a time in SWU. To be fair, rotation and power creep didn't necessarily kill the game. It was a lack of money earned and advertisement. But fewer people were playing as the power creep got worse, so it was definitely at least partially responsible.
Your comments at around the 5 minute mark are accurate. However, it is sort of invalid. If a set is being rotated out, you don't need to be concerned with playing Sabine without rebel synergy, or decks that already exist without Luke, etc. Those leaders would also be rotated out with those synergy pieces (most likely). It would be weird to rotate out exclusively the non leaders in a set. And even if they do rotate out exclusively, non leaders. We have had some cards already printed in 2 sets individually. They could easily just be reprinted and therefore brought back into rotation. MTG reuses cards often enough that set rotation should not be a concern. The only concern about it is if they do add some sort of gimmick to it that other TCGs with set rotation don't do. Like keeping leaders but not units. Decks will be rotated out. But new decks will be rotated in. Nobody should be afraid of the current staples leaving the game with rotation either. Not only will they eventually be back, but it will force players to try other cards still in rotation. Cards that might have used to be terrible in comparison to very strong cards might be very strong without them, assuming we don't get cards of equal to stronger power levels. In a game like this, where actions and decision making is the strength of the game, strong cards still matter, but they will only get you so far.
Rotation is absolutely necessary to keep the game fresh and somewhat limit power creep. They will likely do what MTG sometimes does and have a base set that reprints a bunch of staples that they think need to carry over into the next rotation meant as both an introduction to new players but with new toys for players while lacking any real theme. Hopefully twin suns can remain an eternal format so it can possess the creative unpredictability of the commander format in mtg.
This comment is the only one that makes sense to me. However that only works if stores already have a healthy commuinty of weekly players. Stores are losing money on the last 2 sets and in my area have stopped caring the game, there is not any weekly games nights round me that are consistent. if FFG cant get one format down what gives us the confidence that they can do multiple formats
@matthewboardman3476 in my area it varies. The small stores have a small tight grounp of 6 or 8 that show up every week. Some stores won't touch the game. Then, if you don't reserve your spot nearly a month early at the big stores, good luck entering the planetary qualifier. Small stores lose money more because of the online market than anything. No one wants to pay msrp for a booster box when online is 40 bucks less.
Set rotation is absolutely fine as long as eternal formats also happen. That way players get the best of both worlds and your game can be relevant for more people.
Complaining about rotation is a really good litmus test for if someone has a function brain or not. Rotation doesn’t throw all your old cards into a furnace to never be played again. It creates two formats, rotating and eternal. It’s actually to your extreme benefit because it means if one format is terrible for an extended period, you can hop over to the other. That’s one of the main reasons why MtG is so successful. Does standard suck? Play pioneer. Is modern too expensive? Play pauper. SWU would really benefit from rotation.
The game needs a rotation to survive obviously. Anyone playing TCGs for years know that. No rotation is gatekeeping new players who havent had the chance to jump into the game at set 1. (Dont forget there have been only a set 1 reprint in english so the price of the good cards are already out of hand in other languages) In a competitive perspective the game needs a rotation to survive. Now we'll see if ffg wants his game to live more than 3 years.
@DJSerpent structure and layed out rules don't apply to absolutely busted power creep. If you rely on power creep, eventually yugioh will happen. Yugioh and other TCGs/CCGs or online CCGs that have died using a similar turn structure to SWU even relied on that until it was too late. Relying on power creep is a mistake. Letting cards rotate is healthier. Not only will older cards eventually return, meaning you can keep your collection and the value would return, but you also have other formats to use them in until then. Then the upside is that you won't have to deal with BS metas as often. Yugiohs lack of structure isn't the problem. The fact that consistency is very strong is. Every archetype gets at least one tutor effect, every deck gets a negate or is built generically enough that the generic extra deck negates work inside the shell that new decks provide, or a card which is searchable has an absurd power creed effect we will likely never see the card again (Soul Charge being a prime example of this).
@@manwithnoname9580 This just isn't those other TCGs, we don't really know what's going to happen, but I don't think rotation is the way, it is very expensive. At the end of the day these are just our opinions. Other card games died because of a variety of reasons.
Rotation is necessary for any healthy TCG. It likely wont happen until after set 7 anyways and once it does they will 100% create an "unlimited" format where anything goes. Peiple are so pessimistic, the game is healthy and in a good spot right now.
Boxes are going for well under msrp. stores in my area have stopped caring the game. in person weekly play is dead. PQ's are already having less and less players. explain to me how that is a health game? Just because you like something and by direct doesn't mean the game has longevity
@@mikeT1100 how is it anecdotal? i just looked at this weekends PQ and as i suspected player numbers are down. Im glad you have a healthy player base but i would say your area is a minority when speaking to the whole. I thought that my area was the minatory but the numbers don't lie
@@mikeT1100 you loving the game and you have a community has nothing to do with the health of the game over all. The FACTS that i gave you DOES CORRELATE to the health of the game. You have yet to give any FACTS that the health of the the overall game is at a good state. I glad you like it but if you are going to make a comment like this then you better be able to back it up.
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I never played a TCG before, so SWU is my first. And I really like the game. It is so good. And since I am all new into TCGs, I dont have the history of FFG and such. My feeling sometimes is that the community almost talks and speculates the game to the grave. It confuses me. I want the game to flourish and evolve and want to focus on telling that story and to hype the game. Am I naive? Maybe. Probably.
About what you said about Karabast. Karabast is THE reason why I decided to buy in and start spending a lot of money on the game. Same with a lot of others I play with locally. With a full-time job, kids, and house, there is no way for me to get into the game without something like Karabast. If it would be banned without an alternative, I would, with high probability, leave the game. So, fingers crossed.
@@Fahloin Don't give in to what these people say, they're all opinions with small facts.
As someone who has played games with rotation and without rotation for years I think anyone who doesn't want a rotation is new to TCGs and doesn't understand how stagnant metas can get and how it can kill interest in a game. Do people still want to keep playing if every tournament they go to they face and see Sabine topping? Will people keep going to tournaments if that's all there is? And If Sabine is power crept out is it still fun if you have to buy every new set because of power creep anyways? Isn't power creep just a pseudo rotation anyways but one that forces the game to become super ridiculous super fast? Do we want a YuGiOh style of power creep rotation where the game devolves into turn 1 wins and tier 1 decks that require spreadsheets to sequence correctly? Is that even the same game? Also if nothing ever rotates how expensive do top old cards get if they don't get constant reprints. Do people get priced out like in Legacy or CEDH where decks costs tens of thousands of dollars or even modern where top decks cost almost a thousand? Do they reprint them into the ground to keep them affordable to stop the vast playerbase from being priced out and destroy all value of any cards? Non-rotating formats only help people who get in on the ground floor and naturally gatekeep new players. A game HAS to rotate to survive, whether with regular rotation or unhinged power creep. One is clearly better for a games longevity than the other. That said there probably doesn't need to be a rotation for like another two years so don't even sweat it until then. The move to a three year standard rotation in Magic has been fantastic for the formats health and it's arguably in the best spot it's been in in years.
This is the way.
@@Fr4ngai dont want to put thousands into cards that will be worthless
They should be able to handle this with a forbidden/limited list updated more often than once a year.
There are a few problems I have with full rotation, with this game especially. First off, this game relies on traits and density of traits or certain cards. Rebel is a good example. Rebel is one of the single most recognizable star wars terms and factions. If you remove set 1, what happens to rebel? You lose the only leader who cares about it and 90% of the cards associated with it (including the only really usable ones) . The biggest plot note of star wars becomes a forgotten note in the game. Do they have to reprint the entire core of the rebel trait every 2 years to make sure it's still available? Second, it's a huge middle finger to players who have been buying cards to get the playable legendaries. Sorry your 3 copies of home one are useless now, it's not doing anything disruptive in the game right now, but rotation.... Third, everyone keeps saying rotation just creates main and legacy formats, it's fine. Yes, it's fine for magic who has 20 or 30 players on game night. Are we sure we want to split SWU which is seeing 8 or 10? Will swu survive a player split like that? Will it survive people walking away because their favorite mechanic is rotated out instead of updated or they don't like the current rotation?
SWU really needs to consider a forbidden limited list. Ban the overplayed or problematic cards and leaders, let the rest stay. Nobody is going to care if people are playing 95% of these cards. Let the keywords, traits and variety live and grow with the game
@@jurajkraus Clearly you didn't read anything I said, if the game dies because people are price gated out, your cards will become worthless, if your cards are power crept out to avoid that, your cards will become worthless because they wont be viable. Either way your cards will eventually become worthless in the end. TCGs aren't investments. You will always lose long term cost investments if you play them. If anything having a rotation to slow power creep and having a secondary legacy format is the best chance for your cards to hold value.
@@Fr4ngathis is the way
Outside of the online client I think the other thing that SWU will need to do to survive LONG term is get into the big box stores. There are way more Walmarts/Targets/etc than there are LGS. There are many medium size towns that have a Walmart or Target that do not have an LGS. I can walk into a local big box and find Magic, Pokemon, Lorcana, or One Piece. If you get SWU up next to those you will see a much larger reach in exposure to people who would never think to walk into a LGS.
Rotation is inevitable most likely set 7 is when they could possibly start
For Star Wars Destiny it was set 7. Personally I’m planning on waiting till set 7. I already have an agreement with my LGS to buy Spark of Rebellion booster boxes from distro for super cheap ($10-15/box) to help clear out inventory from distro.
Yeah makes sense. I bet there will be some cards that are ever green. They should look into making leaders evergreen and doing something like Flesh and Blood did with their heros and "retiring" them after so many event wins.
In my opinion, rotation needs to mean 2 formats (like Standard and Vintage) which also needs to mean to sanctionned formats and this also means dividing some of the community. It is the one thing that scares the most for the future of the game. Some will like standard, some will prefer vintage, some will like both and ultimately some will likely leave. My gut tells me the game should already focus on surviving more than splitting its player base. As you said, Karabast be the only online way to play instead of having our own MtG Arena.
They already stated that there will be an officially supported non-rotating format that launches the day sets start rotating.
Like anything else, people lose their minds over stuff they don’t understand. I played the original Decipher Star Wars CCG, but have otherwise avoided CCG’s since then - until SWU. I appreciate why the idea of rotation is gut level unappealing to people. But if you think about the games longevity, there really isn’t a solution that doesn’t involve rotation. Even if they don’t rotate whole sets they need to start banning individual cards to the point where in practice it isn’t any different.
It comes down to realistic expectations. How long do you think the game is going to last? I don’t expect it to live forever. But I imagine a ten year run. If you want the game to live for ten years, you have to imagine people entering the game in year 5. If there’s 15 sets of cards released and all of them are “evergreen” there’s just no way for them to get into the game. Rotation with a healthy balance of revised/reprinted cards and new cards is the only practical way to keep the game healthy for such a long period of time.
I wouldn't expect a rotation for a few years, but a ban/limited list would be very nice. Like revise it every set or two. Some cards could probably be at one without making certain decks bad while still make other decks slightly more viable. Like Luke and Vader could definitely be at one.
As someone who's basically brand new to these kind of games, rotation scares me some. I recently invested in some cards so I can play in my local PQ and other tournaments and at least be semi competitive, and that's not really something I want to have to keep doing over and over again. I'd be in favor of them doing a leader rotation where only certain leaders are allowed, but I'd want that to be an actual rotation, meaning it's a cycle where, for example, say in 2026 you aren't allowed to play sabine or OG Han, but eventually they come back into the competitive scene.
They will not do this. Confirmed when I spoke with the game designers at GenCon. They will rotate out set blocks. E.g. Spark, Shadows, Twilight.
I've played CCGs for a long time, and trust me when I say, rotations are a good thing. I remember being very bummed out when I couldn't play with some of my existing cards, but understood the value of rotation when I wasn't seeing the same cards in every game. How many time can you play against Jango P-38 -> exhaust before you get bored.
It also stems the flow of power creep to an extent. Newer cards have to be stronger or people won't want to play them (meaning the don't spend money) and the game slowly dies out.
Finally, there's also the opportunity to create new archetypes that wouldn't be viable before because certain cards existed. Or you want to create a new type of damage card but can't because a better card already exists.
For comparison, Yu-Gi-Oh is one of the biggest card games that doesn't have rotation and many times their games can end on turn 1. While I doubt that would happen in SWU, it's easy to see how more powerful cards can create more and more complex decks that end up breaking formats. Best to clean sweep stuff away every few years and keep things fresh.
Every hobby has a cost. TCG'S are no different.
I'd be fine with rotation if the original sets stayed evergreen core sets, rotating only new sets going forward.
Why can’t these creators understand without a push to play in person these games die and your online client access doesn’t matter
They already stated that there will be an officially supported non-rotating format that launches the day sets start rotating.
At this point rotation and a legacy format is proven to be the best thing long term for a game. It keeps interest, provides entry points, and helps maintain value of cards. When I got into this game recently it was one of the first things I asked the guy who runs SWU at the local store.
I was skeptical getting into this game because of my previous experience with FFG (AGOT, X-Wing and their first SW game). All those games crashed and burned because while innovative, they ignored realities of the TCG marketplace. I am really glad to see that they are making better decisions with this game.
I feel like I will be a lot less interested in keeping up with this game when rotation starts happening. I am enjoying constructed events, but rotations is what keeps me from enjoying standard in MTG. I only play commander and twin suns is definitely no commander.
FOR A CAUSE I BELIEVE IN, I will go down with the SWU ship.
This is where I want to be.
If it survives...... W.
Set rotation will kill this game and be the final nail on the coffin like it would kill one piece if they ever did it. Games like this with leaders thrive off having so many options and bringing back archtypes and leaders with new cards making them viable again
Karabast is amazing, without it I would never set up my deck. It's hard to find time for commute to local store and gather people to play there. Unless they deploy free to play SWU Online service it will die without Karabast. It's a reason I'm buying more cards, as I want to have nice deck. Maybe I will feel confident enough to go to local tournament because of Karabast.
Shadows of the Galaxy looking at the idea of set rotation as "my only hope" 😅
As someone who doesn’t play SWU anymore, i hope they do set rotation so i can buy the cards for cheap
Wanna share your reasoning?
@ if cards are rotated out, they’re not tournament legal anymore so their prices will go down
@@MaxTaperaGaming sorry I meant, why don't you play anymore?...
@@zors5188 i have 4 locals around me and the 3 closest all dropped SWU tournaments
@@zors5188 not the person you asked, but I havnt played in a bout 2 or 3 months. Personally for me, Boba was toxic and I was tired of playing against it every single week at constructed, it being a virtual auto win at draft nights and being 60% of the meta at competitive. Then they banned it, I breathed a huge sigh of relief, but then immediately really havnt liked set 3. It's interesting except the core mechanics don't feel playable with this few options and no more are coming. Whole thing feels kinda wasted right now. And with no drafts happening locally to play just that set, I've fallen out of love with the game a bit.
Rotation is a must!!!
As a former Androd Netrunner player, sometimes success or failure is out of FFGs hands.
Maybe netrunner would have add a chance at a CCG and not a LCG. But people (including me) thought that having a LCG was 'better' but that was not counting how much the casino aspect of TCG is important for the game to succeed long term.
Android Netrunner went for at least 6 years, and from what's been shared publicly, their final year was strong for sales and organized play. The game ended because they failed to reach an agreement with WotC for the game license. Disney could just as easily decide to go another direction with the Star Wars license or raise its price to an untenable amount. The LCG format probably has a lower audience size cap than a TCG/CCG, but I think they showed a competitive LCG can work. There are other LCGs going that arguably feel more like board games chugging along just fine.
As someone that has played every star wars titles, i completely disagree with you. its starts with FFG and ends with FFG. they need to just stick with non competitive games. just make boardgames its fine.
They need to keep set 1 as the "Core", there are too many critical cards in that set to ditch it. OOOHHH I got 2 of my comments quoted!! That's like winning an award! I'd like to thank my friends, everyone else who knows me and the academy! :)
I wouldn’t object to this, but there are some cards in set one that need to eventually leave the game. Overwhelming Barrage being the biggest one. There are cards that are simply too ubiquitous. Unless they start banning or restricting things more aggressively they are going to need to rotate things eventually.
I'd prefer they rotate all the sets and reprint the ones they want. Because they are so many staple cards, they tend to restrict ideas or force power creep. Like, if they wanted to print another discard card in yellow (please don't), it has to compete with Spark of Rebellion at 2 cost. If they make it 3-cost and give it another bonus, do people even care and still run SoR?
A core set that can have cards added and removed works well in something like Hearthstone where it's all digital and can be updated to everyone in a single patch. That's much more difficult in a paper game.
IDK. The "3 year lifespan" and FFG's "9 season" roadmap, kinda LINES UP! 3 years x 3 sets a year = 9 sets.
They have said they do have rough drafts beyond 9 sets. But that 6 were in completed to physical testing, and 7-9 are currently in the design phase, and sets 10+ were still in the theme design phase. So 9 sets currently in a good spot or complete, 10 and later in rough draft mode
"9 season" doesnt equate to 9 sets. We are going to have set 4 soon, and start season 1.
Yes. Which is why there'll be two formats. Eventually rotation will waste away.
they should already make reserved list 😂
Rotations work when there are established, thriving formats for people to use as outlets to play their rotated cards. Twin Suns really hasn't hit that mark, so SWU doesn't have it. I knew they were considering rotations but as soon as it was basically confirmed, I've ducked out. Money's better spent on Magic in that case.
In a game where so much of the game relies of so much else of the game, I'm not looking forward to a full rotation at all. 'rebel' trait would become meaningless and unplayable with no sets on the horizon to bring it back for instance. What I would like to see is more of a yugioh forbidden, limit, semi limit system. That way they can rotate out overpowered or overused cards while leaving some of the good utility be. Are you going to reprint or replace takedown or superlaser tech or waylay every 3 sets to make sure they don't get rotated?
Not a fan of a rotating format. It will split the already dwindling player base and would need a lot of reprints. They are better off banning problematic cards until they are eventually power creeped out.
The problem with that is yugioh. It is an eternal format, and it's unplayable. Turn 1 is basically almost all that is played. Eventually, new card types in swu may make that end up in a similar state, depending on card design in the future of the game and how they may interact with older cards. At least with Twin Suns, it is singleton format. Less frequently will that broken combo be seen in a twin suns game if everything is at one.
@@manwithnoname9580this is because yugioh ban list and their game at this point are purely profit driven. They stopped caring about the longevity of their game 15 years ago and are intentionally power creeping and not banning cards to make more money off them
If ffg actually cared about the game, an forbidden/limited list could be quite effective over a rotation.
Having cards I can't play is a big reason why I have never been a big investor in TCGs and honestly, depending on how rotation is handled, it might chase me out of this one. I'm already playing a lot less than before
@@manwithnoname9580 Yugioh is a bad example in my opinion. That game is 20 years old and Konami never stopped power creeping in every new set. That's why cards now have a book printed on them with rules, three effects, probably an omni negate and get banned or restricted after a year.
SWU is resource based and you can only take one action, so your opponent always has a chance to do something. That already limits a lot of broken stuff happening.
If we look at MTG, they printed around 6000 cards last year, 4000 of them are reprints over all the different sets they released. And it feels like that every week there is a new product to buy. That's also not a future I want for SWU.
@xIKeepaIx the best example I can give then is Legends of Runeterra. Before they introduced a rotation, it was becoming less fun, and it was reaching power creep to the levels of being unplayable right before they introduced a rotation. I was a huge fan of the game before rotation was even a thing. But it was problematic without rotation.
It was also a resource system and played basically just like SWU, but with instant to perfect speed, and a slightly different combat system where you have the combat action of choosing as many units as you want to attack vs going one at a time in SWU. To be fair, rotation and power creep didn't necessarily kill the game. It was a lack of money earned and advertisement. But fewer people were playing as the power creep got worse, so it was definitely at least partially responsible.
yep
Your comments at around the 5 minute mark are accurate. However, it is sort of invalid. If a set is being rotated out, you don't need to be concerned with playing Sabine without rebel synergy, or decks that already exist without Luke, etc. Those leaders would also be rotated out with those synergy pieces (most likely). It would be weird to rotate out exclusively the non leaders in a set. And even if they do rotate out exclusively, non leaders. We have had some cards already printed in 2 sets individually. They could easily just be reprinted and therefore brought back into rotation.
MTG reuses cards often enough that set rotation should not be a concern. The only concern about it is if they do add some sort of gimmick to it that other TCGs with set rotation don't do. Like keeping leaders but not units. Decks will be rotated out. But new decks will be rotated in.
Nobody should be afraid of the current staples leaving the game with rotation either. Not only will they eventually be back, but it will force players to try other cards still in rotation. Cards that might have used to be terrible in comparison to very strong cards might be very strong without them, assuming we don't get cards of equal to stronger power levels. In a game like this, where actions and decision making is the strength of the game, strong cards still matter, but they will only get you so far.
Rotation costs too much money
They'll rotate leaders out, not sets. A "rotation" akin to FaB, not MTG.
source? everything i am readding is whole sets.
Rotation is absolutely necessary to keep the game fresh and somewhat limit power creep. They will likely do what MTG sometimes does and have a base set that reprints a bunch of staples that they think need to carry over into the next rotation meant as both an introduction to new players but with new toys for players while lacking any real theme. Hopefully twin suns can remain an eternal format so it can possess the creative unpredictability of the commander format in mtg.
This comment is the only one that makes sense to me. However that only works if stores already have a healthy commuinty of weekly players. Stores are losing money on the last 2 sets and in my area have stopped caring the game, there is not any weekly games nights round me that are consistent. if FFG cant get one format down what gives us the confidence that they can do multiple formats
@matthewboardman3476 in my area it varies. The small stores have a small tight grounp of 6 or 8 that show up every week. Some stores won't touch the game. Then, if you don't reserve your spot nearly a month early at the big stores, good luck entering the planetary qualifier. Small stores lose money more because of the online market than anything. No one wants to pay msrp for a booster box when online is 40 bucks less.
Set rotation is absolutely fine as long as eternal formats also happen. That way players get the best of both worlds and your game can be relevant for more people.
This! A ""Standard Premier" with rotation and an Open one.
I dont understand how having multiple bad formats for a dwindling player base will get more people to play the game?
Complaining about rotation is a really good litmus test for if someone has a function brain or not.
Rotation doesn’t throw all your old cards into a furnace to never be played again. It creates two formats, rotating and eternal. It’s actually to your extreme benefit because it means if one format is terrible for an extended period, you can hop over to the other. That’s one of the main reasons why MtG is so successful. Does standard suck? Play pioneer. Is modern too expensive? Play pauper.
SWU would really benefit from rotation.
they cant even get one format down and now you want to through another one in the mix for them to mess up. that doesn't make any sense
The game needs a rotation to survive obviously. Anyone playing TCGs for years know that. No rotation is gatekeeping new players who havent had the chance to jump into the game at set 1. (Dont forget there have been only a set 1 reprint in english so the price of the good cards are already out of hand in other languages) In a competitive perspective the game needs a rotation to survive. Now we'll see if ffg wants his game to live more than 3 years.
nah, just power creep it.
@DJSerpent that's how you get yugioh and an unplayable game lol
@@manwithnoname9580 you don't do it the same way yugioh did it, theyre diff games, this game has more structure and layed out rules.
@DJSerpent structure and layed out rules don't apply to absolutely busted power creep. If you rely on power creep, eventually yugioh will happen. Yugioh and other TCGs/CCGs or online CCGs that have died using a similar turn structure to SWU even relied on that until it was too late. Relying on power creep is a mistake. Letting cards rotate is healthier. Not only will older cards eventually return, meaning you can keep your collection and the value would return, but you also have other formats to use them in until then. Then the upside is that you won't have to deal with BS metas as often. Yugiohs lack of structure isn't the problem. The fact that consistency is very strong is. Every archetype gets at least one tutor effect, every deck gets a negate or is built generically enough that the generic extra deck negates work inside the shell that new decks provide, or a card which is searchable has an absurd power creed effect we will likely never see the card again (Soul Charge being a prime example of this).
@@manwithnoname9580 This just isn't those other TCGs, we don't really know what's going to happen, but I don't think rotation is the way, it is very expensive. At the end of the day these are just our opinions. Other card games died because of a variety of reasons.
more mace lol
Rotation is necessary for any healthy TCG. It likely wont happen until after set 7 anyways and once it does they will 100% create an "unlimited" format where anything goes.
Peiple are so pessimistic, the game is healthy and in a good spot right now.
Boxes are going for well under msrp. stores in my area have stopped caring the game. in person weekly play is dead. PQ's are already having less and less players. explain to me how that is a health game? Just because you like something and by direct doesn't mean the game has longevity
@@matthewboardman3476 it's all anecdotal, in my area player bases have surged and stores get more players every week
@@mikeT1100 how is it anecdotal? i just looked at this weekends PQ and as i suspected player numbers are down. Im glad you have a healthy player base but i would say your area is a minority when speaking to the whole. I thought that my area was the minatory but the numbers don't lie
@@matthewboardman3476 I mean I love the game, play weekly, and still haven't been to a PQ. It's not a direct correlation
@@mikeT1100 you loving the game and you have a community has nothing to do with the health of the game over all. The FACTS that i gave you DOES CORRELATE to the health of the game. You have yet to give any FACTS that the health of the the overall game is at a good state. I glad you like it but if you are going to make a comment like this then you better be able to back it up.