I really like the advice about buying the best looking kit that inspires you to play. That is the best advice I have heard that I can really relate to regarding drums. Especially when beginning until you learn what sounds you like and have skills to try and find, or get that sound.
I think the wood used is the least important factor. Depths, bearing edges, shell thickness, how much shell resonance gets inhibited all matter more when looking at the shell only.
Yeah I'd agree after this video. I thought otherwise but with tuning and everything else that goes on with the kit (and the player) have much more of a dramatic effect.
Agree, 100%. Can you hear the differences in the wood? sure, in a comparison like this, of course but do you notice the difference when you’re playing in a band setting? probably not. More important are the things you mentioned, along with the type of heads and the tuning. decades ago the marketing departments of these companies decided to make it seem more valuable to have certain types of woods and then have them at a certain price point. It became a prestige thing and now having them made in the USA is also another prestige thing, there are tons of videos comparing all different types of instruments made in the US or overseas. There’s little difference.
The resonant frequencies of the shell are complex to compute (there are three kinds: radial, circumferential, and longitudinal or flexural) but the solutions all contain a factor that combines the intrinsic properties of the shell material. If you look at the value of this factor for many of the wood types used in drums, you find that most fall within 10% of the value for maple and virtually all fall within 20% (the intrinsic properties are density, Young's modulus, and Poisson's ratio). As others have said, many factors affect how a drum sounds but this explains why different woods sound so similar. Just as my audiophile friends claim to be able to tell the difference between copper speaker leads and gold plated leads, so folks will detect differences in how different wood types sound. But if you build two as nearly identical drums as possible, and tension them as nearly the same as possible, thus isolating the material properties, it becomes clear that they do not differ greatly. There can be some difference as to how internal reflections play out, but if the inside of the drum is coated or painted, this difference fades as well. Cheers, The Curmudgeon Drum Maker
The heads are the path of least resistance, so tonality of the material of the shell is probably most audible in studio close-miced scenarios with excellent listening conditions.
Well if you do as you say all made the same, same head, and tuning between a maple or mahogany you can def tell the difference. Maple being brighter more high end attack and mahogany being on the lower emphasized frequencies. Mellower sound
Well if you do as you say all made the same, same head, and tuning between a maple or mahogany you can def tell the difference. Maple being brighter more high end attack and mahogany being on the lower emphasized frequencies. Mellower sound
@@johnthibodeaux5189 Thanks for the comment. Many drummers use terms like "brighter" and "mellower" when trying to describe what they think the drum is doing. Problem is that these terms are subjective, undefined, and unquantifiable. To see this issue in a completely unrelated area, take a look at a documentary called Sour Grapes. In it you will see experienced wine collectors using similarly undefined, subjective, and unquantifiable terms to describe wine taste. Unfortunately, many of them were swindled out of millions of dollars by a wine faker. Not saying that any of the fraud stuff applies here but the issue of characterizing something in such a manner is problematic. I use physics, mathematics, and engineering measurements to get to my conclusions. I also apply my experience (as I am sure you do) - in my case I have been playing for decades and I also design and build new snare drums and restore and refurbish old ones. I built a lab to test drums, and this included developing an instrument to measure head membrane tension (quite different from rod torque) because membrane tension is one of the variables that affects drum resonance. That being said, the differences you experience could also be due to transient response (my comments were with respect to shell resonance and therefore timbre). One of the things I have been considering is to advocate that drum makers publish test results that show the drum resonances as well as attack/decay under standardized test conditions, much the way high end speaker manufacturers publish frequency response curves for their speakers.
I listened to these on my Bose headphones. They was very little difference I found. Like he said no one in the band or audience would tell the difference. So if you’re more of a groove player, look for the one that the has the best kick and snare sound. A busier player might pay closer attention to the toms. The finish in the kits could play a big factor in your decision too. So all in all, you can’t go wrong with any of these great drums.
Definitely can't go wrong with any of these. And I agree there is very little difference. Maybe a little more low here and a little high there. Not enough to notice in a blind test behind a band.
That's your first mistake. Bose doesn't make high fidelity headphones and could never be used to make an accurate mix of any kind. Get better headphones. I could hear obvious differences. Walnut and maple sounded very different.
Great video! I just have to say, in my experience, I’ve found subtleties in different types of woods. But none of them so recognizable, that when you hear them in recordings, or live at a concert, you go, oh they’re playing walnut drums , or maple, or that’s a birch maple hybrid! Plus, the way your drums ultimately sound, is entirely up to you with your head selection and tuning.
I was actually pretty shocked in the beginning, the walnut and tulip wood could have easily been mistaken, where the maple stood out on it's own easily. What I will say, is the density of the wood has a level of effect on the depth of the sound and resonance in my opinion. Walnut carrying a deep, rich and throaty sound where the Tulip offered a similar experience with more punch. I would say Tulip Wood is great for my Pop Punk drummers, and Walnut is great for people like me who specialize in post-hardcore type sounds. At the end of the day, I've found my favorite kit is Walnut, and my starter kit was maple. You learn to make due when budgeting is a big deal, so I found that heads/tuning made the majority of the difference in finding my sound, and the wood choice was simply a base preference of resonance. Shout out to my Evans EMad family
Well I had a Yamaha recording custom and played a classic maple Ludwig so birch vs maple with 45 degree edges on both and the Yamaha’s were super tight with zero resonance and didn’t cut really while the Ludwigs roared off the stage and opened up with the slightest touch of the heads and they were way warmer then the Yamaha’s. My Gretsch USA customs are absolutely different sounding then all other brand kits. I played a sonor sq2 also and man no other kits I played beside my Gretsch USA’s sounded close to those.
Awesome video Wow! With all of the fuss about wood the differences were small! Not enough to say one wood is superior. Maybe each kit has an optimal tuning range. Walnut my be the best kit tuned high whereas maple may be better tuned low. Craftsmanship, and drum heads and most importantly we are paying for the name on the drums.
Maple kick with walnut toms. I guess I just talked myself into buying a Mapex drum set … love them Saturns. Had anyone heard or made a poplar birch hybrid?
Honestly maple wood is my choice it fits me better my 7 piece maple set is awsome I also have a birch set it’s a 8 piece set but I love my maple set more then the birch set my maple set is a Tama superstar classic set great drums they are
I have found that the wood type plays more into resonance/ring than sound of a kit. Much like pickups are the deciding factor for an electric guitar vs body wood material
Hi...Personally I could not hear a noticable difference between kits A,B or C. I own a Tama Acrylic set that I love. Since the shells are not wood, they don't change with the weather conditions, and they never go out of tune, because the bearing edges are perfect. They are glass clear so I don't get tired of the color. Tama makes great drums. TY S.R.PURDY 🥁 GOD BLESS
Dave! I preferred the Walnut toms, and the Tulip snare (I LOVE Tulip snares). Honestly, the kicks I couldn’t differentiate, my ears are beat up! Great vid, I love the idea! Cheers man!
Hey man, want to know a secret? The snares are the same on all kits. Just my Steel Hammered 14x6.5. I'm glad you like the video man. It was a beast to make lol
Surprised I liked the Tulip, here's a q, what about old drums, the wood used in drums int he 60s and 70s is not the same old growth wood used today, I'm wondering if that's why old drums sound so good. I'm partial to Zickos and fibes, I have a fiberglass fibes and if the band doesn't mic the drums in a club it's no problem.
A lot of old drums magic come from thinner shells (with re-rings) and the different bearing edges. They also used other woods similar to the tulip wood. Not every old drum is like that but a lot of the ones Ive played have those qualities
I was surprised that I liked the sound of the Walnut the best. But frankly I'm a believer that the heads and how they are tuned have more effect on the sound than the wood. I have 3 birch kits, one Maple and one Luan and I certainly here more differences depending on the heads used.
When I got the Walnut I was also really surprised at the sound. I would have agreed with you before making this video about head choice and tuning but I doubly agree with you now. The difference is marginal between all these kits IMO
I did a heads comparison on my Natal Arcadia a couple of years ago ruclips.net/video/ODvasjAvviw/видео.html. But what I've found since in that doing it alone at home gives a false impression. The sound response is different playing live with a band. I found that the single clear heads cut through the sound better and the overtones that I didn't really like at home just disappeared in the mix of other sounds on stage. I only play local pub and club gigs so don't need to mic up the kit. Of course the other variable is positioning. I'm only hearing it from behind so don't hear what the audience actually hears
Great VID , Dave ! I do prefer the maple , although that has been influenced by my love of Rogers drums . What I really like is Birch , again because of Rogers . Rogers did make maple drums when the shells were being made by Jasper and they switched to birch when Keller started making the shells for them . I will add that I am a cabinet maker for over 45 years and know my woods . What I said above will *iss off some people , who are under the impression that ALL Rogers drums are of maple . I did cause quite the stir on a particular forum years ago when I mentioned this . If you really want to know what a particular wood sounds like , get a length , say 2 ' - 3' by about 3 " wide by 3/4 " thick and drop that piece on an end of the board and you will HEAR the difference big time . I'm a complete drum nut , I own 70 drums ! All Rogers except for 4 drums which are Ludwig . Another detail which I have found that really effects the drums' sound is the way the shell is constructed along with the bearing edge . As always Thanks Dave .
70 drums!!! That's even more than me. Awesome story re Rogers as well. I've never played a Rogers kit before but a couple of Gretsch Round badges and they always have a certain gooshyness I like. All these drums are 45 degree edges and 6 ply shells (not 100% about BD plies) so quite modern construction. If this video has shown me anything, it's that most drums sound great and tuning and room make the biggest difference. Thanks for watching the video and the support man!
I thought Roger's drums for a while were 3 plies, with inner pky birch, center ply maple, outer ply birch, with top & bottom maple reinforcement rings. I'm sure their shells changed over the decades. But my 1972 Roger's kit is likely that type of construction. This is prior to the "XP8" all maple shells. I like the sound of my 1972 Roger's kit, 14x22, 9x13, 10x14, & 16x16 sizes. Snare drum is 1978 Fibes 5x14 fiberglass SFT-90.
If you guys haven't seen it, have a lookout for the DW film they did and the guy who went for a drum lesson with the orig. DW guy, and failing at his lessons and wanting g to be micheal VH w kicks ablaze, etc, could see no point learning any rudiments, so he saw no point teaching him... DW had put together a little device that was a seat as well as hardware case, and he ended up w a job filling a large order he had. This crazy dude ended up 2ic in the company, and knows more than maybe 5-10 other ppl. about the wood. It's really interesting, and it's got a very special guy who the drumming community will possibly never meet his equal. It's special because of his part in this, and what comes from a dark place in the carnation catchment I Europe is the start of a very special story. It has soo much info about what he has learnt about shell weights, timber types, ply thickness or number, combinations. If you are interested in this very occult part of the drumming story, after you watch this, you might end up a professor too.... OOPS,,,,,!!!!!
"Acquired a lot of drums!!!" ... I'll be happy to unburden your load ... happy to take your walnut kit off your hands ;-) NATAL is hard to come by in the states. Cheers and thanks!
Walnut sounded best on first run. the other 2 seem to "ring" more. Second round Maple sounded a little better, then Walnut, then Tulip Third round- Walnut, Maple, Tulip in order of sound I prefer. I'd honestly play any of them!
Thanks for doing the comparison. The differences are so minor that as you said, mot people won't know a difference. Get the kit that inspires you the most.
@@DaveMajor I do actually, especially the kick. I have 20, 12, 14 and I find the Tom’s super versatile and get them sounding pretty deep if needed but I’m still exploring the kick
To me, between Maple and Walnut, it would come down to feel. Walnut is a far softer wood, but has a higher dimensional stability. My guess is the walnut shells and maple will perform very similarly in tone and tuning range. But the difference when it comes to the higher end drums is the feel of the kit, what it gives back to the player. That is determined by so many variables, primary of which is the players style when they strike the head. Second to this, other than the wood’s natural properties mentioned above, would be the rims and the shell construction. The Tulip kit reminded me of Cherry…mostly mids and highs with a Birch quality when it comes to resonance. I’d be a hard pass on the Tulip kit, as it was just not for me and was the one I guessed correctly every time. The Maple vs Walnut would come down to feel for me personally.
20 years ago, I could spend HOURS looking at drum catalogs (of course Tama were amazing :p)! I was all hyped about all drum specs.. 10 years ago I kinda abandoned any interest in high end drums: I felt it was only a marketing scam. Last year, after a nearly a 6 years break (back to school), I resume my playing even more than ever!! That's were the long story begins: I went from: I'll go buy new heads for my rockstar big kit (9 pieces). I saw a big dw performance kit for sale(should have bought it!!): then I lost it!! I bought for THOUSANDS only in the last year!! (A huge drum project (replica) is coming soon!)) So for the last months, I spent soooo many hours listening yt videos on drum comparison: wich woods are doing what and what not.. Ohh man.. The rabbit hole it went!! What it did: now I FEEL I NEED to have a high end drum to have some credibility to make yt videos!! When finally: oh well.. Wood doesn't seem to do much after all!!! The more it goes, by reading HUNDREDS of comments on yt and on forums, the more it seems people listen with their EYES!!!! What seems to stand out is: higher end drum will to sound better MOSTLY because they get better quality control (better bearing edges?, better plys consistency?) ..for the last 25 years, it seems that it's the war on who will make the thinnest shells. And guess what?! You have some drum companies that still offer ultra thick shell only in their top of the line drums. What? Now thick shells are great for some reasons? And say hello to a ton of contradictions all over the place!! So now I'm nearly back to were I was 10 years ago: it's mostly a marketing scam!! I know I know.. I would still rather have a starclassic than a Westbury!!! And something that is blurring the lines even more: the "mid range" kit now evolved so much in the last years (for example: yamaha stage custom birch and superstar classic full maple) that spending a fortune on a high end drum seems less and less reasonable!!! Sadly(?) I will soon enough step up to a high end drum since I think "I'm there" now! But.. What a bunch of b.s. !!!! .. Tnx for having done your video!! Great content! (English is not my 1st language!)
Check out the DW doco with the story of the guy who did the rabbit hole and survived, coming out the other end to make his knowledge available for us all, it's really cool. I have sn it too many times, but it is SO WORTH THE WATCH. I BET you will agree.
The mighty 9 pce assault!! I still have the page where Charlie B from anthrax is with his kit, covered with little white skulls. I met him in Wellington NZ before thier show, he signed it, and proceeded to tell me "it burnt'. He put it in a speech bubble from his photo. Anthrax lost all thier backline gear while off tour in a warehouse fire in about 95. I'll find it and frame it one day.
Nice idea. Here's a thought for next time when trying to record a comparison of wood / shell characteristics: Instead of applying the same EQ and compression etc how about using none? Applying the same recording filters etc seems fair (and arguably it is), but compression and EQ etc take out / even out frequencies and with them also natural resonance, overtones, and other sound characteristics. That is where the differences between those kits (if there is any) will be heard. Thanks for the post though, interesting to hear the various kits from the same maker compared.
The Tulipwood kit was by far the worst, which was disappointing. Maybe it was the tuning or EQ, but it stood out like a sore thumb. I'd seen the bop version of the cafe racer at GC back in the day, and I'm glad I avoided it. The walnut kit was by far the best. I love the more subdued attack and the lack of higher overtones. The first video was super easy to distinguish the kits on, and so there was never a second-guessing period. First kit, based on the EQ could've been anything, but the overtones in the second gave that away and the third was so harsh that it couldn't have been anything other than the Tulipwood. There are very few woods that bring smiles out of me, and one of them is walnut. Cherry is another, for that darker tone with some punch, yet no harshness. And the last major one is birch, as I grew up on rather bright, focused birch kits. To show where my wood loyalties lie, I recently built myself a cherry/gum/cherry bop kit (Canopus Club sizes) and got a Japanese plum wood (stave) snare to match (plus a steel Canopus snare).
I just think it's cool that drummers and guitarists (bassists included) can all geek out on wood selection and and their tone properties together and yet have totally different takes on it and every single one of us is like ''Oh, yeah, that wood totally works for you, man!''. Even though we might never make that same choice if it were us, we still respect the fact that someone else actually gives that much of a sh t about it so that WE don't feel like the only weirdo who notices big differences between woods lol. I'm a woodworker by trade and love how walnut works, not so much how it smells in its raw state, but there's nothing wrong with maple, it's just a little finicky sometimes. Tone-wise, it's mahogany all day, baby. Although, I have heard some birch kits that are like wow. It really comes down to knowing how to set up the kit according to the tonal properties of its construction. If set properly, a walnut kit can be punchy and acceptable in place of a maple, and vice versa. I like warm low end that blooms, I also like a bright punchy maple kit on some things, but it all depends on the song, the style, the player's dynamics. It really is like salt, pepper, spices, do you want a lime in your beer or not, it's just that razor edge of a thing until it comes time to place a super sensitive condenser mic 2'' away from it and then you go ''Oh, wow, we got some work to do here''. Definitely something to think about as you listen to others play - what do YOU prefer the sound of? is the question to answer, not what anyone else prefers (unless, of course, you are the engineer). In all honesty, I've recorded kits that in the room (just with my ears) I thought WOULD NOT WORK and then once mics were put up and the kit and room tuned it worked perfectly. That said, if the kit sounds BAD it will still sound bad no matter what you try, my caveat above was for a good sounding kit that I just assumed was wrong for the part (a mahogany/walnut/mahogany ply kit for a heavy rock song, I originally thought it needed a maple kit for extra punch but it did just fine).
Exactly, so much of a 'sound' comes down to heads and the player. I have noticed a big difference when I had an Ash kit. It just couldn't go low enough and then I chatted to a guitarist friend and he said Ash is a higher pitched wood and so is great for guitars and used widely for them. That explained my issue with the tone of it. Would probably make a killer bop kit
@@DaveMajor Very true. Ash is a hard yet brittle wood in ways. Eddie Van Halen's Frankenstrat was made of ash and that thing was PUNCHY bright. It worked good for what he used it for, mostly live initially, but it wouldn't have been acceptable for many other styles (in fact, he chose to record much of the first few albums with other guitars but LIVE he needed the punch) . As I've aged I've accepted the 31 Flavors philosophy and grown to appreciate having endless choices, players who've stuck to just 1 thing doggedly usually just got stale. It's a big sand box, play with all the toys is my view on it. Explore and God be with you! (ie good luck, fellow crazy person) :P
Uhh, wood does have some tonal differences but is lost in the mix. Uhh bearing edges do make a bigger difference! Rounded gives you a warmer more vintage tone! 45 degree gives more overtones and volume! The biggest tone variation comes from mahogany! I prefer maple just because they are super tough , stabile and strong!
This experiment proved to me that most drums sound good and it's all about the recording that will make a huge difference to the sound. That said I always gigged the Maple. Just something very clean about the sound I liked
It's funny, I was a little off between the Maple and Walnut . . . but I picked the right Tulip wood on each video . . . the tulip must be speaking to me.
@@DaveMajor It's funny too, I play a Yamaha PHX and the tone of the shells spoke to me . . . I can hear a difference in what I like . . . I played a Natal Tulip wood kit at Alto Music in Middletown NY once and remember walking away with a "WOW" that kit sounded great, and it was NOT expensive at all.
I guess my point is . . . when you know the tonal qualities you are looking for, they are available at multiple price points. I have a friend who was buying kit after kit after kit at all different price points and I told him, "you are buying kits looking for your sound, but you don't really know what the sound is you're looking for." I had him listen to one of his favorite songs on spotify and just move the playback eq around and screenshot where he liked the song drum sound best. My eq preference is "the smile curve" . . . so I gravitate towards hybrids, tulip, birch and beech. A lot of drummers like the "down the mountain curve" which is where bubinga and mahogany excel. Some like a Flat curve which leans towards maple. His preference was a "rainbow curve" . . . mid range centric . . . told him to try the DW performance series in maple, low mass lugs and thinner maple shells and forget the price point and everything else . .. he bought them and is very happy.
I'm not a drummer, but I know what I like. I like sharp attack and a low resonant fundamental with minimal overtones. I find the types of heads makes a huge difference. My ears are drawn to Mahogany and Walnut.
Really close.. And hard to tell the difference. Not much in it, at least from here. The kick n snare are the main things, the toms, esp the floor are most noticeable.
They all sounded the same, especially the bass drums. I could hear a tiny bit of difference in one of the 10 inch toms, but that could be coming from a little difference in the edge on that drum, or maybe a difference in the head. Back in the 90's all the drum companies said you can't mix woods in a drum shell or it will ruin the drum sound. Today, most companies mix woods in a shell even in their high end drums. So it doesn't seem to matter what type of wood is used in a shell, they all sound the same. Probably the drum head, the bearing edge, and the type and weight of the hardware determine the way a drum sounds. Other than getting a fancy finish on a drum, why spend a whole bunch of money on drums if they all pretty much sound the same.
I'm with you there. I wonder if my viewpoint is clouded by the way they feel to play? The walnut 'feels' deeper when playing it in my studio but does that translate probably not. I also agree with the spending $$$ on a kit. Most mid range kits are incredible these days and it comes down to all the factors you outline vs what the drum is made of.
That is a fair point man. Playing devils advocate I'll say that some drummers are pretty tom heavy players. The National and NEEDTOBREATHE come to mind. As always it depends what you play and your own style. I can definitely do a whole gig on kick snare hats.
@@DaveMajor Yes, That's true. But in percentage how many of them you can count? :) It remains an exception... very rare exception... Get concentrated on kick, snare and hats and you'll have your own and signed sound.
I really like the advice about buying the best looking kit that inspires you to play. That is the best advice I have heard that I can really relate to regarding drums. Especially when beginning until you learn what sounds you like and have skills to try and find, or get that sound.
Got that from Mike Johnston, I had the same response as you when I first heard it!
I think the wood used is the least important factor. Depths, bearing edges, shell thickness, how much shell resonance gets inhibited all matter more when looking at the shell only.
Yeah I'd agree after this video. I thought otherwise but with tuning and everything else that goes on with the kit (and the player) have much more of a dramatic effect.
I could hear the differences.
@@sp1epiphanyIdentify each each kit blind numerous times with consistency. That's the true test.
that's interesting because kit B was obviously maple to me. Particularly after kit A. Kit B to C was a little bit harder to tell but still.
Agree, 100%. Can you hear the differences in the wood? sure, in a comparison like this, of course but do you notice the difference when you’re playing in a band setting? probably not. More important are the things you mentioned, along with the type of heads and the tuning. decades ago the marketing departments of these companies decided to make it seem more valuable to have certain types of woods and then have them at a certain price point. It became a prestige thing and now having them made in the USA is also another prestige thing, there are tons of videos comparing all different types of instruments made in the US or overseas. There’s little difference.
So interestingly.... My favourite did end up being the Walnut kit each time! But they are very similar
Agreed man. None of them would sound out of place in any situation
The resonant frequencies of the shell are complex to compute (there are three kinds: radial, circumferential, and longitudinal or flexural) but the solutions all contain a factor that combines the intrinsic properties of the shell material. If you look at the value of this factor for many of the wood types used in drums, you find that most fall within 10% of the value for maple and virtually all fall within 20% (the intrinsic properties are density, Young's modulus, and Poisson's ratio). As others have said, many factors affect how a drum sounds but this explains why different woods sound so similar. Just as my audiophile friends claim to be able to tell the difference between copper speaker leads and gold plated leads, so folks will detect differences in how different wood types sound. But if you build two as nearly identical drums as possible, and tension them as nearly the same as possible, thus isolating the material properties, it becomes clear that they do not differ greatly. There can be some difference as to how internal reflections play out, but if the inside of the drum is coated or painted, this difference fades as well.
Cheers,
The Curmudgeon Drum Maker
The heads are the path of least resistance, so tonality of the material of the shell is probably most audible in studio close-miced scenarios with excellent listening conditions.
Well if you do as you say all made the same, same head, and tuning between a maple or mahogany you can def tell the difference. Maple being brighter more high end attack and mahogany being on the lower emphasized frequencies. Mellower sound
Well if you do as you say all made the same, same head, and tuning between a maple or mahogany you can def tell the difference. Maple being brighter more high end attack and mahogany being on the lower emphasized frequencies. Mellower sound
@@johnthibodeaux5189 Thanks for the comment. Many drummers use terms like "brighter" and "mellower" when trying to describe what they think the drum is doing. Problem is that these terms are subjective, undefined, and unquantifiable. To see this issue in a completely unrelated area, take a look at a documentary called Sour Grapes. In it you will see experienced wine collectors using similarly undefined, subjective, and unquantifiable terms to describe wine taste. Unfortunately, many of them were swindled out of millions of dollars by a wine faker. Not saying that any of the fraud stuff applies here but the issue of characterizing something in such a manner is problematic. I use physics, mathematics, and engineering measurements to get to my conclusions. I also apply my experience (as I am sure you do) - in my case I have been playing for decades and I also design and build new snare drums and restore and refurbish old ones. I built a lab to test drums, and this included developing an instrument to measure head membrane tension (quite different from rod torque) because membrane tension is one of the variables that affects drum resonance. That being said, the differences you experience could also be due to transient response (my comments were with respect to shell resonance and therefore timbre). One of the things I have been considering is to advocate that drum makers publish test results that show the drum resonances as well as attack/decay under standardized test conditions, much the way high end speaker manufacturers publish frequency response curves for their speakers.
I listened to these on my Bose headphones. They was very little difference I found. Like he said no one in the band or audience would tell the difference. So if you’re more of a groove player, look for the one that the has the best kick and snare sound. A busier player might pay closer attention to the toms. The finish in the kits could play a big factor in your decision too. So all in all, you can’t go wrong with any of these great drums.
Definitely can't go wrong with any of these. And I agree there is very little difference. Maybe a little more low here and a little high there. Not enough to notice in a blind test behind a band.
That's your first mistake. Bose doesn't make high fidelity headphones and could never be used to make an accurate mix of any kind. Get better headphones. I could hear obvious differences. Walnut and maple sounded very different.
Great video! I just have to say, in my experience, I’ve found subtleties in different types of woods. But none of them so recognizable, that when you hear them in recordings, or live at a concert, you go, oh they’re playing walnut drums , or maple, or that’s a birch maple hybrid! Plus, the way your drums ultimately sound, is entirely up to you with your head selection and tuning.
Absolutely right. Blindfolded I think I would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
Don't forget about what* the audio tech does after the kit gets mic'd.
Absolutely. Add guitars and vocals ontop of it and you wont hear ths difference. After doing this its more to do with the feel as you are playing imo
I was actually pretty shocked in the beginning, the walnut and tulip wood could have easily been mistaken, where the maple stood out on it's own easily. What I will say, is the density of the wood has a level of effect on the depth of the sound and resonance in my opinion. Walnut carrying a deep, rich and throaty sound where the Tulip offered a similar experience with more punch. I would say Tulip Wood is great for my Pop Punk drummers, and Walnut is great for people like me who specialize in post-hardcore type sounds.
At the end of the day, I've found my favorite kit is Walnut, and my starter kit was maple. You learn to make due when budgeting is a big deal, so I found that heads/tuning made the majority of the difference in finding my sound, and the wood choice was simply a base preference of resonance. Shout out to my Evans EMad family
I don't agree at all. I think the walnut clearly stood out as the best and sounded nothing like the others. I'm wearing headphones tho
And thats the beauty of choice. Someones perfect tone is anothers trash.
Glad you liked the video 👊
Well I had a Yamaha recording custom and played a classic maple Ludwig so birch vs maple with 45 degree edges on both and the Yamaha’s were super tight with zero resonance and didn’t cut really while the Ludwigs roared off the stage and opened up with the slightest touch of the heads and they were way warmer then the Yamaha’s. My Gretsch USA customs are absolutely different sounding then all other brand kits. I played a sonor sq2 also and man no other kits I played beside my Gretsch USA’s sounded close to those.
Awesome video Wow! With all of the fuss about wood the differences were small! Not enough to say one wood is superior. Maybe each kit has an optimal tuning range. Walnut my be the best kit tuned high whereas maple may be better tuned low. Craftsmanship, and drum heads and most importantly we are paying for the name on the drums.
Exactly. It really comes down to tuning, micing and playing vs specific wood types.
Maple kick with walnut toms.
I guess I just talked myself into buying a Mapex drum set … love them Saturns.
Had anyone heard or made a poplar birch hybrid?
Think that would be a custom kit job. Would be an interesting mix of woods
Honestly maple wood is my choice it fits me better my 7 piece maple set is awsome I also have a birch set it’s a 8 piece set but I love my maple set more then the birch set my maple set is a Tama superstar classic set great drums they are
I have found that the wood type plays more into resonance/ring than sound of a kit.
Much like pickups are the deciding factor for an electric guitar vs body wood material
Agree. Wood type seemed to make less of a difference than I thought it would
Hi...Personally I could not hear a noticable difference between kits A,B or C. I own a Tama Acrylic set that I love. Since the shells are not wood, they don't change with the weather conditions, and they never go out of tune, because the bearing edges are perfect. They are glass clear so I don't get tired of the color. Tama makes great drums. TY S.R.PURDY 🥁 GOD BLESS
Tama di make great drums! The difference between these three was a lot less than I was expecting. I love the look of acrylic kits
The walnut was my fave but I love a tighter sound and a a higher tone so I have a strong bias XD they all sound great though
I picked the walnut one in all instances. Felt like it would fit best in a rock mix
Great choice. After this video the walnut has been my main kit for almost a year! I love it
I agree
Interestingly, there was a Tama Star comparison done by DCP with the maple, bubinga and walnut being demonstrated. The walnut sounded the best to me.
Dave! I preferred the Walnut toms, and the Tulip snare (I LOVE Tulip snares). Honestly, the kicks I couldn’t differentiate, my ears are beat up! Great vid, I love the idea! Cheers man!
Hey man, want to know a secret? The snares are the same on all kits. Just my Steel Hammered 14x6.5.
I'm glad you like the video man. It was a beast to make lol
@@DaveMajor Ah! It’s amazing how a change of even one component affects the sound of the other drums on the kit! Sounded great!
Surprised I liked the Tulip, here's a q, what about old drums, the wood used in drums int he 60s and 70s is not the same old growth wood used today, I'm wondering if that's why old drums sound so good. I'm partial to Zickos and fibes, I have a fiberglass fibes and if the band doesn't mic the drums in a club it's no problem.
A lot of old drums magic come from thinner shells (with re-rings) and the different bearing edges. They also used other woods similar to the tulip wood.
Not every old drum is like that but a lot of the ones Ive played have those qualities
I was surprised that I liked the sound of the Walnut the best. But frankly I'm a believer that the heads and how they are tuned have more effect on the sound than the wood. I have 3 birch kits, one Maple and one Luan and I certainly here more differences depending on the heads used.
When I got the Walnut I was also really surprised at the sound.
I would have agreed with you before making this video about head choice and tuning but I doubly agree with you now. The difference is marginal between all these kits IMO
I did a heads comparison on my Natal Arcadia a couple of years ago ruclips.net/video/ODvasjAvviw/видео.html. But what I've found since in that doing it alone at home gives a false impression. The sound response is different playing live with a band. I found that the single clear heads cut through the sound better and the overtones that I didn't really like at home just disappeared in the mix of other sounds on stage. I only play local pub and club gigs so don't need to mic up the kit. Of course the other variable is positioning. I'm only hearing it from behind so don't hear what the audience actually hears
Each round when I picked a favorite it was the walnut kit when he revealed them.
Great VID , Dave ! I do prefer the maple , although that has been influenced by my love of Rogers drums . What I really like is Birch , again because of Rogers . Rogers did make maple drums when the shells were being made by Jasper and they switched to birch when Keller started making the shells for them . I will add that I am a cabinet maker for over 45 years and know my woods . What I said above will *iss off some people , who are under the impression that ALL Rogers drums are of maple . I did cause quite the stir on a particular forum years ago when I mentioned this . If you really want to know what a particular wood sounds like , get a length , say 2 ' - 3' by about 3 " wide by 3/4 " thick and drop that piece on an end of the board and you will HEAR the difference big time . I'm a complete drum nut , I own 70 drums ! All Rogers except for 4 drums which are Ludwig . Another detail which I have found that really effects the drums' sound is the way the shell is constructed along with the bearing edge . As always Thanks Dave .
70 drums!!! That's even more than me. Awesome story re Rogers as well. I've never played a Rogers kit before but a couple of Gretsch Round badges and they always have a certain gooshyness I like.
All these drums are 45 degree edges and 6 ply shells (not 100% about BD plies) so quite modern construction.
If this video has shown me anything, it's that most drums sound great and tuning and room make the biggest difference.
Thanks for watching the video and the support man!
I thought Roger's drums for a while were 3 plies, with inner pky birch, center ply maple, outer ply birch, with top & bottom maple reinforcement rings.
I'm sure their shells changed over the decades. But my 1972 Roger's kit is likely that type of construction. This is prior to the "XP8" all maple shells.
I like the sound of my 1972 Roger's kit, 14x22, 9x13, 10x14, & 16x16 sizes. Snare drum is 1978 Fibes 5x14 fiberglass SFT-90.
I can't distinguish exact case, but my best was always walnut. I guess Wood is still important.
It is to a certain degree. Not as much as I thought it would before this experiment though
All sound good.
Walnut for me funny thing is it allways has been my favorite tama star walnut for me
If you guys haven't seen it, have a lookout for the DW film they did and the guy who went for a drum lesson with the orig. DW guy, and failing at his lessons and wanting g to
be micheal VH w kicks ablaze, etc, could see no point learning any rudiments, so he saw no point teaching him...
DW had put together a little device that was a seat as well as hardware case, and he ended up w a job filling a large order he had. This crazy dude ended up 2ic in the company, and knows more than maybe 5-10 other ppl. about the wood. It's really interesting, and it's got a very special guy who the drumming community will possibly never meet his equal. It's special because of his part in this, and what comes from a dark place in the carnation catchment I Europe is the start of a very special story.
It has soo much info about what he has learnt about shell weights, timber types, ply thickness or number, combinations. If you are interested in this very occult part of the drumming story, after you watch this, you might end up a professor too.... OOPS,,,,,!!!!!
Oriollo drums is challenging all the wood theoricians of the drums manufacture and giving a favor to the trees 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Smaller bass drum and floor, tune it up a bit and that would make an exceptional walnut jazz kit
I've got a 14" floor which I use in all of my videos so I guess you could get a bass drum converter for the floor and away you go!
@@DaveMajor oh cool!
"Acquired a lot of drums!!!" ... I'll be happy to unburden your load ... happy to take your walnut kit off your hands ;-) NATAL is hard to come by in the states. Cheers and thanks!
Maybe at 10k subs I'll give away a kit!
Walnut! Hands down the best one!
Walnut sounded best on first run. the other 2 seem to "ring" more.
Second round Maple sounded a little better, then Walnut, then Tulip
Third round- Walnut, Maple, Tulip in order of sound I prefer.
I'd honestly play any of them!
Thanks for doing the comparison. The differences are so minor that as you said, mot people won't know a difference. Get the kit that inspires you the most.
Agreed! Get the one that looks the coolest!
This intro though.... daaaaayyyyyuuuummmm!!
Thanks man. That took AGES to shoot lol.
2 of 3 I chose the cafe racer, which is handy as I have one already 😉
That is handy! Do you find yours has that high overtone as well?
@@DaveMajor I do actually, especially the kick. I have 20, 12, 14 and I find the Tom’s super versatile and get them sounding pretty deep if needed but I’m still exploring the kick
Think a heavier head maybe? I use an emad usually but might work better with an emad 2 or something
@@DaveMajor last night I tried the EMAD batter + calftone reso (unported) with an EQ pad inside and it was thunderous! 👍
Oooo nice!
Hey Dave. I kinda preferred the maple sound, as it turned out. Like you said, though, not a bad drum amongst them. Doncha just love all drums???
Most seem to prefer the maple. Just shows sometimes the classic woods are classic for a reason!
And yeah I love drums!
I like the Walnut for the studio setting
Nice. I lean more towards the maple in the studio but the walnut is great within my youtube/instagram setup
GREAT VIDEO....NICE INFORMATION...
Glad you liked it! Which kit was your favourite!
To me, between Maple and Walnut, it would come down to feel. Walnut is a far softer wood, but has a higher dimensional stability. My guess is the walnut shells and maple will perform very similarly in tone and tuning range. But the difference when it comes to the higher end drums is the feel of the kit, what it gives back to the player. That is determined by so many variables, primary of which is the players style when they strike the head. Second to this, other than the wood’s natural properties mentioned above, would be the rims and the shell construction. The Tulip kit reminded me of Cherry…mostly mids and highs with a Birch quality when it comes to resonance. I’d be a hard pass on the Tulip kit, as it was just not for me and was the one I guessed correctly every time. The Maple vs Walnut would come down to feel for me personally.
Super detailed points there. And you are right....it's mainly the player.
The tulipwood one has slightly more attack, but honestly all of them sounded about the same, you could get them to sound the same with EQ.
I pick Maple correctly on the 1st and last test
The second test I had a tougher time.. But Maple is the standard IMHO
Maple is the standard and the one I go for on most recording sessions. I would like to try a birch against the maple though!
@@DaveMajor Try the Mapex Armory: Birch - Maple - Birch
C sounds great!
I agree!!
my ears found b as the standout, but i cannot help but think it was primarily slight variations in tuning.
Probably! I didn't use a tune bot so not entirely scientific
kit A My favorite
20 years ago, I could spend HOURS looking at drum catalogs (of course Tama were amazing :p)!
I was all hyped about all drum specs..
10 years ago I kinda abandoned any interest in high end drums: I felt it was only a marketing scam.
Last year, after a nearly a 6 years break (back to school), I resume my playing even more than ever!!
That's were the long story begins:
I went from: I'll go buy new heads for my rockstar big kit (9 pieces).
I saw a big dw performance kit for sale(should have bought it!!): then I lost it!!
I bought for THOUSANDS only in the last year!! (A huge drum project (replica) is coming soon!))
So for the last months, I spent soooo many hours listening yt videos on drum comparison: wich woods are doing what and what not..
Ohh man.. The rabbit hole it went!!
What it did: now I FEEL I NEED to have a high end drum to have some credibility to make yt videos!!
When finally: oh well.. Wood doesn't seem to do much after all!!!
The more it goes, by reading HUNDREDS of comments on yt and on forums, the more it seems people listen with their EYES!!!!
What seems to stand out is: higher end drum will to sound better MOSTLY because they get better quality control (better bearing edges?, better plys consistency?)
..for the last 25 years, it seems that it's the war on who will make the thinnest shells. And guess what?!
You have some drum companies that still offer ultra thick shell only in their top of the line drums.
What?
Now thick shells are great for some reasons?
And say hello to a ton of contradictions all over the place!!
So now I'm nearly back to were I was 10 years ago: it's mostly a marketing scam!!
I know I know.. I would still rather have a starclassic than a Westbury!!!
And something that is blurring the lines even more: the "mid range" kit now evolved so much in the last years (for example: yamaha stage custom birch and superstar classic full maple) that spending a fortune on a high end drum seems less and less reasonable!!!
Sadly(?) I will soon enough step up to a high end drum since I think "I'm there" now!
But.. What a bunch of b.s. !!!!
..
Tnx for having done your video!!
Great content!
(English is not my 1st language!)
You are welcome mate. It's all in the hands. A good drum just tunes easier and lasts longer.
Check out the DW doco with the story of the guy who did the rabbit hole and survived, coming out the other end to make his knowledge available for us all, it's really cool. I have sn it too many times, but it is SO WORTH THE WATCH.
I BET you will agree.
The mighty 9 pce assault!!
I still have the page where Charlie B from anthrax is with his kit, covered with little white skulls. I met him in Wellington NZ before thier show, he signed it, and proceeded to tell me "it burnt'. He put it in a speech bubble from his photo.
Anthrax lost all thier backline gear while off tour in a warehouse fire in about 95. I'll find it and frame it one day.
@@DaveMajor oh!
Just saw your answer!!
Great content!
Cheers :)
@@chrisharding5447 haha
I already saw a few dw documentaries.
Any link?
Tnx
Nice idea. Here's a thought for next time when trying to record a comparison of wood / shell characteristics: Instead of applying the same EQ and compression etc how about using none? Applying the same recording filters etc seems fair (and arguably it is), but compression and EQ etc take out / even out frequencies and with them also natural resonance, overtones, and other sound characteristics. That is where the differences between those kits (if there is any) will be heard. Thanks for the post though, interesting to hear the various kits from the same maker compared.
HI there, that's a very good point. In hindsight I probably should have done a side by side with no eq and some eq.
Thanks for checking out the video
walnut for me please ! thanks !
In the post
out of the three i prefered the walnut
Thats weird: although they are very similar for me the maple in all of the examples is always in 3rd.
That's odd! Even though Maple is the most common drum making wood maybe it's not always the best sound.
The Tulipwood kit was by far the worst, which was disappointing. Maybe it was the tuning or EQ, but it stood out like a sore thumb. I'd seen the bop version of the cafe racer at GC back in the day, and I'm glad I avoided it.
The walnut kit was by far the best. I love the more subdued attack and the lack of higher overtones. The first video was super easy to distinguish the kits on, and so there was never a second-guessing period. First kit, based on the EQ could've been anything, but the overtones in the second gave that away and the third was so harsh that it couldn't have been anything other than the Tulipwood.
There are very few woods that bring smiles out of me, and one of them is walnut. Cherry is another, for that darker tone with some punch, yet no harshness. And the last major one is birch, as I grew up on rather bright, focused birch kits.
To show where my wood loyalties lie, I recently built myself a cherry/gum/cherry bop kit (Canopus Club sizes) and got a Japanese plum wood (stave) snare to match (plus a steel Canopus snare).
Hmmm, I guessed maple right every time. But there isn't as much in it as the makers would like you to think.
That's what I found as well. They all sound a little different...but not as much as I would have expected. Thanks got checking the video
Wow! I really love walnut! If I'm not wrong that sounds are dryer and lower, lovely 💜
I think so too! They feel really good to play and translate really nicely on record as well
I just think it's cool that drummers and guitarists (bassists included) can all geek out on wood selection and and their tone properties together and yet have totally different takes on it and every single one of us is like ''Oh, yeah, that wood totally works for you, man!''. Even though we might never make that same choice if it were us, we still respect the fact that someone else actually gives that much of a sh t about it so that WE don't feel like the only weirdo who notices big differences between woods lol. I'm a woodworker by trade and love how walnut works, not so much how it smells in its raw state, but there's nothing wrong with maple, it's just a little finicky sometimes. Tone-wise, it's mahogany all day, baby. Although, I have heard some birch kits that are like wow. It really comes down to knowing how to set up the kit according to the tonal properties of its construction. If set properly, a walnut kit can be punchy and acceptable in place of a maple, and vice versa. I like warm low end that blooms, I also like a bright punchy maple kit on some things, but it all depends on the song, the style, the player's dynamics. It really is like salt, pepper, spices, do you want a lime in your beer or not, it's just that razor edge of a thing until it comes time to place a super sensitive condenser mic 2'' away from it and then you go ''Oh, wow, we got some work to do here''. Definitely something to think about as you listen to others play - what do YOU prefer the sound of? is the question to answer, not what anyone else prefers (unless, of course, you are the engineer). In all honesty, I've recorded kits that in the room (just with my ears) I thought WOULD NOT WORK and then once mics were put up and the kit and room tuned it worked perfectly. That said, if the kit sounds BAD it will still sound bad no matter what you try, my caveat above was for a good sounding kit that I just assumed was wrong for the part (a mahogany/walnut/mahogany ply kit for a heavy rock song, I originally thought it needed a maple kit for extra punch but it did just fine).
Exactly, so much of a 'sound' comes down to heads and the player.
I have noticed a big difference when I had an Ash kit. It just couldn't go low enough and then I chatted to a guitarist friend and he said Ash is a higher pitched wood and so is great for guitars and used widely for them.
That explained my issue with the tone of it. Would probably make a killer bop kit
@@DaveMajor Very true. Ash is a hard yet brittle wood in ways. Eddie Van Halen's Frankenstrat was made of ash and that thing was PUNCHY bright. It worked good for what he used it for, mostly live initially, but it wouldn't have been acceptable for many other styles (in fact, he chose to record much of the first few albums with other guitars but LIVE he needed the punch) . As I've aged I've accepted the 31 Flavors philosophy and grown to appreciate having endless choices, players who've stuck to just 1 thing doggedly usually just got stale. It's a big sand box, play with all the toys is my view on it. Explore and God be with you! (ie good luck, fellow crazy person) :P
Maple
Walnut
Tulipwood
Nice choice!
Uhh, wood does have some tonal differences but is lost in the mix. Uhh bearing edges do make a bigger difference! Rounded gives you a warmer more vintage tone! 45 degree gives more overtones and volume! The biggest tone variation comes from mahogany! I prefer maple just because they are super tough , stabile and strong!
This experiment proved to me that most drums sound good and it's all about the recording that will make a huge difference to the sound. That said I always gigged the Maple. Just something very clean about the sound I liked
It's funny, I was a little off between the Maple and Walnut . . . but I picked the right Tulip wood on each video . . . the tulip must be speaking to me.
That's a sure sign!!!
@@DaveMajor It's funny too, I play a Yamaha PHX and the tone of the shells spoke to me . . . I can hear a difference in what I like . . . I played a Natal Tulip wood kit at Alto Music in Middletown NY once and remember walking away with a "WOW" that kit sounded great, and it was NOT expensive at all.
I guess my point is . . . when you know the tonal qualities you are looking for, they are available at multiple price points. I have a friend who was buying kit after kit after kit at all different price points and I told him, "you are buying kits looking for your sound, but you don't really know what the sound is you're looking for." I had him listen to one of his favorite songs on spotify and just move the playback eq around and screenshot where he liked the song drum sound best. My eq preference is "the smile curve" . . . so I gravitate towards hybrids, tulip, birch and beech. A lot of drummers like the "down the mountain curve" which is where bubinga and mahogany excel. Some like a Flat curve which leans towards maple. His preference was a "rainbow curve" . . . mid range centric . . . told him to try the DW performance series in maple, low mass lugs and thinner maple shells and forget the price point and everything else . .. he bought them and is very happy.
Do for us a drum fill in 3/4 time
I've been asked about odd times alot recently...i've got an idea for a good video!
I'm not a drummer, but I know what I like. I like sharp attack and a low resonant fundamental with minimal overtones. I find the types of heads makes a huge difference. My ears are drawn to Mahogany and Walnut.
Always go with the ears. Birch is a great wood for those qualities but the heads make the biggest difference for sure
Great demo. I don’t think wood types matter (especially when under microphones).
Defo man.
first c then b and after, the c
Walnut was my choice.
Great demo-I prefer both the Maple snare and toms. The walnut toms do have a serious attack, though.👍
Yeah the Walnut is really nice. Snare is the same in each kit but does the kit effect the sound of it....hmmm?
Thanks for watching :)
I liked A the best.
It really doesn’t. It’s all about the heads
I totally agree
And microphones / mic position.
Really close.. And hard to tell the difference. Not much in it, at least from here. The kick n snare are the main things, the toms, esp the floor are most noticeable.
Not much in it for me either. Which do you prefer?
Budweiser uses Beechwood.
👌👌 🍻
They all sounded the same, especially the bass drums. I could hear a tiny bit of difference in one of the 10 inch toms, but that could be coming from a little difference in the edge on that drum, or maybe a difference in the head. Back in the 90's all the drum companies said you can't mix woods in a drum shell or it will ruin the drum sound. Today, most companies mix woods in a shell even in their high end drums. So it doesn't seem to matter what type of wood is used in a shell, they all sound the same. Probably the drum head, the bearing edge, and the type and weight of the hardware determine the way a drum sounds. Other than getting a fancy finish on a drum, why spend a whole bunch of money on drums if they all pretty much sound the same.
I'm with you there. I wonder if my viewpoint is clouded by the way they feel to play? The walnut 'feels' deeper when playing it in my studio but does that translate probably not.
I also agree with the spending $$$ on a kit. Most mid range kits are incredible these days and it comes down to all the factors you outline vs what the drum is made of.
Especially the bass drums there is a huge difference... I guess you didn't listen with proper headphones.
THe snares sound OK on all kites. The toms sound terrible on all kits, if you are into jazz. KD sound OK.
Walnut
B walnut
Man I miss my Saturns…
kit c
Maple for the win
Maple is a classic choice. Defo my go to for recordings
Maple
Excellent choice
Poplar is the best
Interesting! Those old poplar kits have a vibe for sure
At the end toms are not important... Kick and Snare, make the sound of a drum kit in any song... :)
That is a fair point man. Playing devils advocate I'll say that some drummers are pretty tom heavy players. The National and NEEDTOBREATHE come to mind. As always it depends what you play and your own style.
I can definitely do a whole gig on kick snare hats.
@@DaveMajor Yes, That's true. But in percentage how many of them you can count? :) It remains an exception... very rare exception...
Get concentrated on kick, snare and hats and you'll have your own and signed sound.
Fair points man but I don't think that it's too rare to discount altogether. Like I said I more in the kick snare hat camp that tons of toms though!
All your drums are just as important to tune and sound good together.
All sound the same!