Think Air Corps Aviation in Minnesota are restoring this P-47D Razorback Thunderbolt back to flying condition. There are more Thunderbolts out there. At wars end, Guam had several P-47D and P-47N model Thunderbolts. The Army in their infinite wisdom decided rather than flying them back to the mainland, they would push these Thunderbolts off a cliff into the Pacific Ocean where they sank over 600 feet to the ocean floor where far as I know they still remain there today.
It would be a GREAT video without the CLOWN playing around. Real people fought and DIED on these aircraft and they deserve respect. The same respect deserve the people restoring these machines.
OMG!!! Not only is the reporter obnoxious but the supposed guide is wrong about that P47 engine running normally aspirated at sea level, there is a centrifugal supercharger in the back of the engine, the turbo starts boosting to compensate for the thinner air to the engines own centrifugal supercharger by closing the waste gate dumps more the higher it goes sending more exhaust to the turbo and spinning it faster, the R2800 engine had pistons that had a mechanical compression ratio of around 6.5, if you ran it normally aspirated even at sea level it would be a total dog, you might as well try flying around on a riding mower, why would you want a fighter engine to run normally aspirated at any altitude, the whole idea is to run like a supercharged engine at sea level and be able to keep it up as you gain altitude, I can't believe this guy is a tour guide at Colorado Springs.
You, my friend, need to do your research. First of all, the guide did not say wether the R2800 in the P47 ran normally aspirated at sea level or not, he said a naturally aspirated engine can't run efficiently at altitude, which he is correct about. Second, you are simply wrong. The General Electric turbosupercharger can not and should not be run below 7,000 feet, except maybe in emergency situations. Above 7,000 feet, the turbosupercharger would be used by opening the waste gates and the higher it went, the more they would be opened to keep the rated 2,000 horsepower. (2,000 hp was the very early versions that had 52 in. of manifold pressure, later on they added water injection making 2,300 hp, then higher manifold pressure at 64 in., making around 2,600 hp, then finally 72 in., making 2,800 hp. The plane in this video either had 2,300 or 2,600 hp, though it's possible ground crews raised the manifold pressure making the hp number go up. This was fairly easy to do as they could adjust the turbosupercharger.) Now, the R2800 had a little supercharger built into the engine itself, so to call it naturally aspirated when the turbosupercharger was not in use would be wrong. However, using the turbosupercharger below 7,000 feet for too long would lead to a damaged motor or the charger itself, likely the motor first. It's also important to note that the turbosupercharger didn't really add horsepower, or if it did, it was not that much. It allowed the plane to keep its full power all the way up to around 25,000 feet. P.s. I am sadly unable to find the source stating the 7,000 foot limit. I know I read it in a few different places, but I'd probably have to dig deep to find it again, so sorry it's not provided. I'll keep looking. If you have any other questions, ask away.
@@danraymond1253 You need to listen to him again and reread what I wrote, he does say "These engines run normally aspirated at sea level", I listened to it twice to make sure of it because I couldn't believe what he said. And I'm well aware of the fact that the turbos aren't used below 7,000 ft or so unless getting into WEP, I'm very much aware of the systems and their wastegate dumps and how they work.
@@dukecraig2402 are you talking about @1:32? Because he says, and I quote, "But a naturally aspirated engine cannot function efficiently at altitude, so you've got to do something to get that oxygen into the cylinders." Turn on captions I did to make sure I wasn't going crazy
@@dukecraig2402 also, I'll step up to the plate and fully admit that I was wrong. I read through some documents just now and found that the turbosupercharger is "generally not required" below 7,000 feet. It is scene in this source here; www.simshack.net/media/files/WOP3%20P47%20Razorback%20Flight%20Manual.pdf, though I know it's not the most 'official.' I could have sworn I read a while back that running the turbosupercharger under 7,000 feet would damage it or the motor. Maybe a more official site has this information or maybe it just confirms what was said about not being required. I still believe either way that running it too long down low can damage the plane and that it wouldn't add much if any advantage anyway. But, my apologies for my incorrect memory.
@@danraymond1253 I'm not sure of the time stamp where he says it, if you look it's been a year ago that I watched this, and I didn't turn on a CC feature because honestly back then I didn't know you could, but the way he says it and either points to the engine or lays his hand on the ductwork or something sure as hell makes it seem like he's imply that they run NA at sea level. And he mentions NOTHING about the single stage supercharger that provides boost to an altitude where it runs out of steam and the turbo comes into play, if he's going to give tour's and explain the system to people he needs to do a much better job of it than he does, talking the way he does is not only misleading but leaving things out like the centrifugal supercharger probably has all kinds of people spreading bad information around about these things. P38 systems worked the same basic way these did, NACA did a study in the mid 30's to determine what type of supercharging system would produce the most horsepower across all altitudes, the best is a single stage supercharger with a turbo to start feeding it when it high enough that it runs out of ass, the second best is a 2 stage 2 speed supercharger, the Navy chose that type of system for reasons that have to do with the limited space available for parts and maintenance on a carrier, the F4F-3 was the first aircraft in the world that used a 2 speed 2 stage supercharger system (much to the chagrin of British aviation enthusiasts who mistakenly think that the Merlin was and really throw a fit when you point out that they learned it from acquiring F4F-3's early on in the war and didn't have a version fielded on the Merlin until 1942, even the early Packard built Merlin's had single stage superchargers on them), this is why people have the mistaken belief that the Merlin was a more powerful engine than the Allison, what they don't realize is that the Allison didn't have a 2 stage 2 speed high altitude supercharger developed for it at the point that the P40, P39, and the Mustang were developed because the USAAC had forbidden Allison to use any of it's funding for development of a 2 stage supercharger because they wanted all development money put into the single stage supercharger/turbo style system, and since the US Navy didn't use Allison's in any combat aircraft they weren't going to pay for the development of one either, the fact is the Allison is a vastly superior military engine compared to the Merlin, all other things being equal like the supercharger systems and octane and boost levels it's always more powerful than the Merlin, and it's got much fewer parts and can have it's direction reversed without the use of special camshafts and having to change the firing order, all you have to do is take the crank out and turn it around and fit an inexpensive idler gear on it to turn the pump's in the correct direction and the engine rotates in the other direction. The F4F-3 had a 2 stage supercharger but later versions were fitted with single stage superchargers because it was determined that only so many 2 stage superchargers could be manufactured and those would be used on the new F4U and F6F fighters, early versions of the F4U had 2 stage 2 speed superchargers which were quickly replaced with 2 stage variable speed superchargers that are hydro coupled to the engines drive eliminating the need to shift into a high range once rising to a given altitude. By the end of the war a 2 stage supercharger had been developed for the production version of the Twin Mustang, this same 2 stage supercharger Allison engine was test fitted into a regular P51 Mustang resulting in a 491 MPH plane but it never saw production.
Think Air Corps Aviation in Minnesota are restoring this P-47D Razorback Thunderbolt back to flying condition. There are more Thunderbolts out there. At wars end, Guam had several P-47D and P-47N model Thunderbolts. The Army in their infinite wisdom decided rather than flying them back to the mainland, they would push these Thunderbolts off a cliff into the Pacific Ocean where they sank over 600 feet to the ocean floor where far as I know they still remain there today.
It would be a GREAT video without the CLOWN playing around. Real people fought and DIED on these aircraft and they deserve respect. The same respect deserve the people restoring these machines.
Get them out and restored I've seen some planes on the bottom that i thought could be rescued from the uss Lexington on the tv
Is that a p-47 d variant.
Yes, since it's from the PTO could be as early as a D-5 or as late as a D-23.
OMG!!! Not only is the reporter obnoxious but the supposed guide is wrong about that P47 engine running normally aspirated at sea level, there is a centrifugal supercharger in the back of the engine, the turbo starts boosting to compensate for the thinner air to the engines own centrifugal supercharger by closing the waste gate dumps more the higher it goes sending more exhaust to the turbo and spinning it faster, the R2800 engine had pistons that had a mechanical compression ratio of around 6.5, if you ran it normally aspirated even at sea level it would be a total dog, you might as well try flying around on a riding mower, why would you want a fighter engine to run normally aspirated at any altitude, the whole idea is to run like a supercharged engine at sea level and be able to keep it up as you gain altitude, I can't believe this guy is a tour guide at Colorado Springs.
You, my friend, need to do your research. First of all, the guide did not say wether the R2800 in the P47 ran normally aspirated at sea level or not, he said a naturally aspirated engine can't run efficiently at altitude, which he is correct about. Second, you are simply wrong. The General Electric turbosupercharger can not and should not be run below 7,000 feet, except maybe in emergency situations. Above 7,000 feet, the turbosupercharger would be used by opening the waste gates and the higher it went, the more they would be opened to keep the rated 2,000 horsepower. (2,000 hp was the very early versions that had 52 in. of manifold pressure, later on they added water injection making 2,300 hp, then higher manifold pressure at 64 in., making around 2,600 hp, then finally 72 in., making 2,800 hp. The plane in this video either had 2,300 or 2,600 hp, though it's possible ground crews raised the manifold pressure making the hp number go up. This was fairly easy to do as they could adjust the turbosupercharger.) Now, the R2800 had a little supercharger built into the engine itself, so to call it naturally aspirated when the turbosupercharger was not in use would be wrong. However, using the turbosupercharger below 7,000 feet for too long would lead to a damaged motor or the charger itself, likely the motor first. It's also important to note that the turbosupercharger didn't really add horsepower, or if it did, it was not that much. It allowed the plane to keep its full power all the way up to around 25,000 feet. P.s. I am sadly unable to find the source stating the 7,000 foot limit. I know I read it in a few different places, but I'd probably have to dig deep to find it again, so sorry it's not provided. I'll keep looking. If you have any other questions, ask away.
@@danraymond1253
You need to listen to him again and reread what I wrote, he does say "These engines run normally aspirated at sea level", I listened to it twice to make sure of it because I couldn't believe what he said.
And I'm well aware of the fact that the turbos aren't used below 7,000 ft or so unless getting into WEP, I'm very much aware of the systems and their wastegate dumps and how they work.
@@dukecraig2402 are you talking about @1:32? Because he says, and I quote, "But a naturally aspirated engine cannot function efficiently at altitude, so you've got to do something to get that oxygen into the cylinders." Turn on captions I did to make sure I wasn't going crazy
@@dukecraig2402 also, I'll step up to the plate and fully admit that I was wrong. I read through some documents just now and found that the turbosupercharger is "generally not required" below 7,000 feet. It is scene in this source here; www.simshack.net/media/files/WOP3%20P47%20Razorback%20Flight%20Manual.pdf, though I know it's not the most 'official.' I could have sworn I read a while back that running the turbosupercharger under 7,000 feet would damage it or the motor. Maybe a more official site has this information or maybe it just confirms what was said about not being required. I still believe either way that running it too long down low can damage the plane and that it wouldn't add much if any advantage anyway. But, my apologies for my incorrect memory.
@@danraymond1253
I'm not sure of the time stamp where he says it, if you look it's been a year ago that I watched this, and I didn't turn on a CC feature because honestly back then I didn't know you could, but the way he says it and either points to the engine or lays his hand on the ductwork or something sure as hell makes it seem like he's imply that they run NA at sea level.
And he mentions NOTHING about the single stage supercharger that provides boost to an altitude where it runs out of steam and the turbo comes into play, if he's going to give tour's and explain the system to people he needs to do a much better job of it than he does, talking the way he does is not only misleading but leaving things out like the centrifugal supercharger probably has all kinds of people spreading bad information around about these things.
P38 systems worked the same basic way these did, NACA did a study in the mid 30's to determine what type of supercharging system would produce the most horsepower across all altitudes, the best is a single stage supercharger with a turbo to start feeding it when it high enough that it runs out of ass, the second best is a 2 stage 2 speed supercharger, the Navy chose that type of system for reasons that have to do with the limited space available for parts and maintenance on a carrier, the F4F-3 was the first aircraft in the world that used a 2 speed 2 stage supercharger system (much to the chagrin of British aviation enthusiasts who mistakenly think that the Merlin was and really throw a fit when you point out that they learned it from acquiring F4F-3's early on in the war and didn't have a version fielded on the Merlin until 1942, even the early Packard built Merlin's had single stage superchargers on them), this is why people have the mistaken belief that the Merlin was a more powerful engine than the Allison, what they don't realize is that the Allison didn't have a 2 stage 2 speed high altitude supercharger developed for it at the point that the P40, P39, and the Mustang were developed because the USAAC had forbidden Allison to use any of it's funding for development of a 2 stage supercharger because they wanted all development money put into the single stage supercharger/turbo style system, and since the US Navy didn't use Allison's in any combat aircraft they weren't going to pay for the development of one either, the fact is the Allison is a vastly superior military engine compared to the Merlin, all other things being equal like the supercharger systems and octane and boost levels it's always more powerful than the Merlin, and it's got much fewer parts and can have it's direction reversed without the use of special camshafts and having to change the firing order, all you have to do is take the crank out and turn it around and fit an inexpensive idler gear on it to turn the pump's in the correct direction and the engine rotates in the other direction.
The F4F-3 had a 2 stage supercharger but later versions were fitted with single stage superchargers because it was determined that only so many 2 stage superchargers could be manufactured and those would be used on the new F4U and F6F fighters, early versions of the F4U had 2 stage 2 speed superchargers which were quickly replaced with 2 stage variable speed superchargers that are hydro coupled to the engines drive eliminating the need to shift into a high range once rising to a given altitude.
By the end of the war a 2 stage supercharger had been developed for the production version of the Twin Mustang, this same 2 stage supercharger Allison engine was test fitted into a regular P51 Mustang resulting in a 491 MPH plane but it never saw production.