A SHORT ESSAY AS A PINNED COMMENT 1) Use the code TREE for 40% off World Anvil with the link worldanvil.com/?c=mltt Or else try it out for free!! 2) So I don't think the edited section in the video was actually necessary, I just felt I wasn't wording things the best. Normally I'd have reasons to discuss why Vernon is so concerned with his image, so humiliated by what the kids say or do, so incredibly aggressive. There will be deeper for a lot of it but, as far as the film shows us, all we get are the external factors. As a result, that's really the only bit I get to touch on. The deleted scenes are also quite revealing though. Theres this exchange I was going to include in the video between Vernon and Carl (I'm paraphrasing based on memory) Vernon: So what, you expect me to get down on my knees and... and love them, is that it? Carl: Nah, man. Understand them. Vernon: Understand? Give them a whack, that's all they understand! Again, culture plays a role there as this sort of approach to raising children was still quite common at the time (still is in areas). Naturally, it's an approach that lines up with what his own desires are. As far as he sees it, either whack them or you're made to get on your knees and grovel. Either I make them submit, or they will make me. He refuses to see that there are other options. 3) So if, and it is an if. IF Vernon does get some very faint growth by the end of the film...what happens next Monday? He's still seeing Bender for another 8 weeks of detentions, right? Except next time it will just be them. Having made some growth, will he have the strength to admit "I've not been good to you, and I want to try and get along better with you going ahead, I hope you can work with me on that." It's hard to know exactly what he can say because, as the above quote suggests, anything too apologetic would feel too much grovelling for him to manage. He has to try and connect, otherwise I could Bender either running wild over the course of 8 detentions, or they could both provoke eachother to such extremes that one of them is either expelled or suspended...probably Bender expelled, based on who would be believed. Or does he call off the detentions, admit he was ridiculous to give him so many, that it won't help either of them. I suppose that's possible. There's a lot of options for what could happen, it's interesting to think about. I'd like to think that maybe, with just the two of them there, they'd gradually find a way to connect. I doubt enough to resolve everything, but maybe enough for them to survive without killing each other (metaphorically). 4) The other thing about Vernon not staying in the room is that he's setting a goal they are doomed to fail at. It's a typical parenting mistake: set an impossible expectation "all of you must stay still and silent for AN ENTIRE DAY without the need of any supervision." Obviously they fail and then, because it was the expectation, Vernon feels like it was a personal betrayal: "I gave you my trust, and look what you did!" So not only does it make him unnecessarily angry but it also teaches the kids they are doomed to fail. They never get to experience meeting expectations, doing well, not feeling like failures precisely because they were set up to fail. Either set achievable goals that succeeding in would build their confidence and self-belief, or be sure to supervise to help prevent them from reaching the point of failure.
I never went to detention when I was in school, so I'm not sure how it works, but I think the teachers took turns monitoring detention, so it's likely Vernon wouldn't be the teacher there the next weekend or next one, etc. Even if he said he'd "see" him there in detention, I'm not sure he'd be back monitoring detention any time soon. Bender might be stuck for the next 8 weeks with 8 different teachers. Idk for sure, but I think that's the way it'd likely play out.
Great video as usual, 2 observations from my perspective. 1. You mention that you think Vernon is something of a caricature of a person, and cite things like the way he uses catchphrases as a primary method of communication, and his body posture routines. The snapping of fingers and making the bull horn gestures, and similar behavior as signs of this 2 dimensional nature of him. I have to disagree, because Vernon IS my regional supervisor where I work. Maybe this is a personality quirk unique to the US, and maybe from that generation predominantly, but once I started watching this video, and hearing your breakdown of his traits, I instantly saw my regional manager. He IS Vernon. It was kind of a crazy revelation, but he really is. He has that "talking over you" demeanor, you always feel like you are just waiting for him to stop talking and for him to leave whenever he makes a presentation. There is zero engagement with him, it's all just enduring his presence until you can be rid of him. So yeah, I think that Vernon is, depressingly, more realistic than you might think. 🤣 2. I think part of the reason he is so confrontational with Bender is that he WAS Bender in his generation. I think he sees all the ways he behaved as a teenager, being reflected back at him. And he remembers the angry thoughts HE had back then towards HIS adult caretakers,(without remembering all of the pain, fear, confusion that accompanied those thoughts at that age) and so he lashes out at him. He hates to be reminded of what he used to be. Because Bender and Vernon both have the same aggressive, insulting way of talking with everyone. The way Vernon addresses the other kids, sounds VERY much like how Bender talks to them. Taunting them by their archetype names, mocking their home life, and just calling them weird, etc. That's probably why Bender gets made back at him as well, because he probably is thinking similar thoughts about the other kids in the room with him, and hates that he might share something in common with Vernon. Vernon feels that his life has been wasted, that he himself isn't much of a worthwhile person, and he is railing at the bars of the cage he made for himself, with poor decisions, and an unresolved anger complex. You mentioned in your Bender review, about how he had a similar relationship with his father, and that's why he always confronts Vernon, because they are a similar paternal figure. I think that plays into it as well. Vernon is looking at a younger version of him, and Bender is looking at an older version of himself as well (reminiscent of his father, as they would be of a similar age). I think Vernon never resolved his issues as a kid, but did learn how to be semi-functional in society. That he wasted his potential, and had to settle for a dead-end teaching job at his own highschool. He thought he'd "have it all figured out" by this point in his life, but all he's doing is just spinning his wheels. He feels just as trapped as the kids, and hates to see it thrown back in his face every day. And the fact that his own failures are revealed to him, in "The Criminal"'s behavior, makes it doubly insulting. It's not Bender's fault, but Vernon takes it out on him anyway. Anyway, those were just a few observations I had while watching your video. Keep up the good work!
Technically I should put this on Claire's video. But this is more recent so I thought I'd put this here instead. I just noticed at the very beginning. Look at the way Claire's dad looks at her. I think Claire has it at least partially wrong about her parents. I don't think they're merely using here to get back at one another. The way dad looks at her, he clearly LOVES her SO much. Whatever he's doing it's not just using her as a pawn, but also out of leniency they'd offer somebody they really really love.
About Vernon's job: he is a vice principal or assistant principal (I don't remember the exact title), not a teacher. He is essentially an unofficial police officer because his main responsibility--essentially his whole job--is to catch and punish the students' bad behavior. It's easy to confuse that with thinking that his job is bullying the students. He might have been a teacher in the past, and now he's trying to climb the job ladder.
@@jennifermems1111 Carl says to Vern "You took a teaching job because you thought it would be fun" Vern doesn't correct him. Odds are high he was a teacher at one point, and even as a Vice Principal, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he still does teach some tertiary class, though unlikely. It's not too important really. What is important in the story is what he represents.
I agree. I think Vernon got older and kind of expected the kids to grow up with him. But they never do they are just replaced by a new crop of 14-18 olds each year and teenagers will always be teenagers. His patience started to wear thin with some of their comments and shenanigans. He wanted the kids to respect him but as Carl also said "if you were 16, what would you think of you"? Carl was much more in tune with how high school kids are and always will be and didn't take their jokes or behavior personally and Vernon did.
I like how Vernon and Carl are deliberately portrayed as different sides of the same coin. Both are jaded and have to deal with disrespectful teenagers. But whereas Vernon lashes out at the kids, and goes over the top in trying to discipline them, especially Bender, Carl can see where they're coming from, and at least tries to do the right thing.
And an interesting point about that, Carl's approach is WAY more effective than Vernon's. As the kids walk out, they all have a genuine interaction with him. Even if it's nothing more than a casual wave and a smile, and a quite "cya" as they walk by him. Bender genuinely smiles at him, because he's gotten to know the janitor very well over the months of detention he's spent there. They all instantly recognize that the Janitor "is cool." He's not an asshole, he's not going to bother them, he's not going to try and control them (outside of his authority as a janitor at least), and he doesn't judge them. He smiles back at them, waves to all of them as people, and understands that they are just kids, trying to figure shit out, just like he did. I don't think Carl is jaded, so much as he's just a realist. He knows what his life is, and just how trivial and minor his authority is. But where Vernon rails at the restraints of his authority, trying to have more than is his due, Carl has settled into his position. He knows what is expected of him, what he expects from everyone else, and just goes about his day. He knows that all the stuff going on there isn't the end of the world drama that Vernon makes it out to be. It's just high school, and they are just kids, and you really shouldn't take it all so seriously, or personally. The fact that Carl understands this, and Vernon doesn't, is the sign that Carl is a fairly well adjusted human being, but Vernon is not.
@@happyninja42 I think I remember that the movie fleetingly reveals that Carl was big deal in the same high-school when he was a student. That would make his arrival at acceptance of the world and his humble place in it even more remarkable.
I think the difference in between how Vernon and Carl interact with the kids is Carl remembers being one of them in his younger years and Vernon doesn't.
I always saw Vernon as a man who's being forced to come to terms with the possibility that he's unable to adapt to the changing world around him, particularly in his line of work. It could be part of the reason as to why he's angry with the kids (and why he claims the kids turned on him, it's easier to place blame on someone else then accept that the problem could be you). In a sense he's LITERALLY in detention as much as the kids are with nothing to do, which is why he hides in his office the majority of the film. This may be unknowingly forcing Vernon to self-reflect and confront some personal demons that he may have been trying to avoid. It could be a realization that he's losing control, power, and authority in more ways than one which can be very hard things to come to terms with (It could also be why the kids are making fun of it). And if that is the case, it would explain why he's very angry and aggressive with the kids: He's desperately fighting to KEEP his power and authority and is adamant on not changing his ways or teaching methods. "If things aren't working, you're not trying hard enough or putting in enough effort" could be an old mantra he's going by. But ironically by refusing to change and still going by your old ways in a sense is also a lack of effort on your part because it's easier to stick to what you know should work than trying to think of something new or try something new. And his growing age most likely could be making it even harder for him to keep up with it much like how you pointed out (I mean for how long can you keep fighting an uphill battle in the hopes of winning before collapsing from exhaustion?) And for some men, it could result in a loss of motivation, drive or purpose. And ultimately, a man NEEDS to have a purpose in his life! And when he doesn't have one, he may end up sadly wanting his life to end sooner than it should. That to me is the tragedy of Vernon, he's the portrait of a man who could be realizing that he's made a mistake in more ways than one and that the Bull's horns can't pierce or endure as much as they once were able to. That is why I sympathize for him, even though he's portrayed as the bitter, old authority figure just meant to discipline and belittle the kids.
One of the facts about Vernon we learn in the film is that he, just like the kids he's watching, is stuck for a whole day in the school on a Saturday. In fact, he's one of only two adults we see in the school that day, the other being Carl, who as maintenance staff we'd expect to have weekend hours. It's almost like he is serving detention as well. The question the film doesn't answer is whether this is by choice. If not, then I can see him as being resentful at being stuck working every Saturday while everyone else is off watching kids who he views as bad apples and misfits. He hate's being there and takes it out on the kids (i.e. if they hadn't have behaved the way he did, he wouldn't have to be there in the first place.) If he's there by choice - if he was the teacher who developed the detention protocol and oversees it, then I think it says something else about his character. That he believes that tough love, his way or the highway is the only way to straighten these kids out, which ultimately manifests itself with a certain degree of cruelty. Or it could be a combination of both - perhaps he originally volunteered to handle detention as one of his extra-teaching staff duties out of a noble (and misguided) sense that he was going to straighten the bad kids out, but now just resents the role.
I always just assumed that the "Vernons" of the world (Like the junior high principal who stated as a fact that I was late for class because he'd "seen me talking to my friends in the hall" when I didn't actually have any) were just ticked off because they had a crappy job, because dealing with adolescents.......is not for everybody, so it was easiest for him to take his general dissatisfaction with his life on the good kids; I might have been a little bit of a "Brian" , but mostly an Allison!
I've actually been looking forward to the Carl video the most. Carl was Shermer High's "Man of the Year" in 1969, but works as the janitor of that same high school 16 years later. Did he peak in High School? Did he go out into the world and fail, feeling like he was a big fish in a small pond? Was he so focused on being successful in high school that he wasn't prepared for the real world?
I have seen many kids fit this bill and staggering around for awhile before settling on a janitor's job like Carl. They are living high in high school. Everyone loves and admires them. Superstar athlete. Girls swooning over you. Then comes....reality. Post high school blues. No one in college gives a shit how "popular" you were in H.S. Since you focused solely on your own athletic glory, you're not much of a student and feel WAY behind the academic elites in college. You now face EVERY superstar at their high school and you played in a very weak division, so you are not even in the top 5 on your own team. It's brings on depression. There is nothing wrong with a janitor's job. It can be backbreaking work (depending on how hard you work), but I am sure no one grows up saying "I want to be a janitor."
I like how for the kids they are separated into their groups prom queen, Jock etc. But Carl (Janitor) and Vernon (teacher) don't see each other as someone from another group they just get along, see each other as equals and value each others opinions, even though they have opposing points of view at times. It's very interesting as one of those jobs is seen as respectable one and the other isn't by wider society. I think it sort of shows what happens when they grow up these groups will fade away and whatever their path in the future there is a good chance they can get along off the bat, rather than what it took in the movie
I never saw Vernon as a two-dimensional villain. He does comes off like that at first, because we see him through the kids's eyes, but the few scenes we see of him alone, like that deep sigh after Bender yell "F U!", spilling coffee all over his lunch or when he's talking to Carl show that he, like the kids, are more than their stereotypes. I've always seen him as a tragic, almost pathetic, figure. He might have a decent paying job and a home, but he's clearly unhappy with his life and how it's turned out. He never mentions a wife or kids of his own, but I doubt he would have all the saturday-detentions if he had a happy home life. He went into teaching with the vision and belief that he would create and inspire the leaders of tomorrow, only to find that it was alot harder and more emotionally draining than he anticipated, making him bitter and resentful. He's actually exactly what the kids fear to become when they grow up: angry, stuck in their mindset and taking it out on the younger generation.
To me the film also represents the gen x vs boomer struggle. So Vernon's absence is necessary to represent the feeling of abandonment of the younger generation by the older. His vanity, self importance and lack oh humility as well as his attempts to hold on to his diminishing power are in many ways exactly how this generation saw the boomers. Perhaps that is always the case between generations but it seemed more intense between these 2. Gen x was in many ways characterized by not thier actions but the actions of thier parents. They were the latch key kids of divorce, the casualties of the war on drugs. Where the boomers where defined they were the undefined. Solve for X. In many ways the film was about the feeling of abandonment and expection felt by the kids and thier struggle for self definition specifically in the absence of the adults in thier lives. They were locked away by the world that didn't want to handle them and told "Figure it out for yourselves". Also it is important here to recognize that the boomer generation was also dealing with a similar situation facing massive social and technological changes also with very little rudder to steer by.
I feel like, if for whatever godforsaken reason they decide remake or (Heaven forbid) “modernize” The Breakfast Club, Judd Nelson should be cast as Vernon, just to bring it full circle.
Another great analysis!! Your character analysis videos are really giving me a heightened appreciation for The Breakfast Club!! And I'm don't think I'm alone when I say this, but... YES!!! PLEASE FINISH THE SERIES WITH CARL REED THE JANITOR!!! LIKE VERNON, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT HIM (Even if your video would be a comparatively very short one!!)
Even though Vernon is not as complex as the rest of the characters, he's one of the most important lessons for me in this movie. The truth is throughout your life you are going to encounter Vernons: people who judge you, believe it's their mission to undermine you, are unhappy and will take it out on others. One of the most important things I've learned is: you can't make people do as you please, be what you want or feel in a way that pleases you and nobody can change that. There's people who'll hate you for being you. Don't turn into them.
Honestly, the way Bender handles Vernon's closet tantrum is the best thing you can do. Don't speak to them, don't acknowledge what they're doing, and sure as hell don't do what they want. These kinds of people can't take being ignored, they have to have some weight on the people around them. They choose to make it a negative weight and that's their business. You can't make them decide they don't want to goad you into punching them, but you can refuse to stand, refuse to hit them, refuse to even speak, then climb out through the ceiling when they get tired and bored and sad. It may not feel like it, but not hitting Vernon in that moment hurt him worse than actually hitting him would have done.
Vernon seems to me like the kind of guy that's barely trying anymore. He's been in the job for too long (I assume), it's more tiring than fulfilling now so he goes for what seems to be instinctive for him, which is agression of some kind and not even giving the kids a chance. He's right, they are wrong. That's it. He also seems very insecure, so he postures a lot. Thankfully I only had one teacher that behaved similarly to him, but the experience was bad enough that it stayed with all of my class for the rest of highschool. She was a literature teacher and god, she was so unfair and set on her ways. At a certain point she devided the class into left row: the one's that already failed the year, middle row: the ones that may pass, right one: the ones that are doing good. (I was in the middle, but she asked me to A: stop hanging out with the people that was failing and B: get full marks in absolutely everything (which was already harder than with other teachers)). I failed her class obviously, had to come back three times to do the do-over test that would let me pass, and I only got it right the last time cause she had failed so many kids, they had to divide us in to two groups and I got a different teacher to test me. At one point she even did something very reminiscent of Vernon when he says that Bender is going to be a failure in five years. Just a horrible teacher through and through and I can safely say I learned nothing with that woman, except perhaps to rebel, which is funny cause I wasn't rebellious before her, I was terrified of saying no to a teacher but she just infuriated me.
Right down to Vernon's outfit. This is early on a Saturday morning, but he's dressed to impress. Like he read a self-help book about "dressing for the job you want".
Glad you got to his character, for some reason I thought you had already idk why lol Tbh I think the adult characters in John hughes films imo were written with less nuance than the main youth, but principal Vernon is an exception
Despite the vice principal being a respected position, Vernon obviously holds high disdain for his job, with the underlying message being that success doesn't always lead to happiness. Same goes for Carl, since he used to be Man of the Year in 1969, but he now the janitor of the same school he graduated from, as indicated by the opening montage.
The Easter Egg of Carl's time as a student reveals so much about his backstory. Would love to hear your take on the character - even if it's a shorter video essay.
The "I make 31 thousand dollars a year." brag always hit me as weird. i know it was Chicago in the 80s so at least double that now, but its basically bragging that he has enough to get by. I'd say my salary now is somewhat comparable. Sounds like a lot to a 17 year old but factor in rent/mortgage, child care, groceries, etc its basically bragging, " I can pay my bills on time!" He probably knows this and is just saying it because he knows it sounds like a lot of money to a 17 year old
I always got the impression that Vernon was Andrew if he grew up and eventually failed at athletics (which happens to 99% of high school and college athletes) and never grew beyond his hatred of his father and thus never really recovers from not being a professional athlete and thus "settles" for a career in education.
I was in high school when this movie came out and I had teachers like Vernon. I remember my history teacher would have fits of rage, fling books off his desk and throw erasers at students who pissed him off. We were all scared to death of him. The challenges you point out that Vernon faces are valid but they're also things all educators deal with over years of teaching. The overwhelming issue with Vernon is his inability to control his anger. People like him have no business being in a position of authority over impressionable teenagers. His behavior (especially towards Bender but likewise with the other kids) was inexcusable. Vernon had the perfect opportunity to be a positive male role model for a kid raised by an abusive father. Instead he compounded his trauma and caused even more damage by ridiculing and threatening him. I'm sorry but I can't drum up much sympathy for a man who looks a teenage boy in the faces ahd tells him he's a loser who's never going to amount to anything. In my opinion Vernon is a man with no redeeming qualities. He's not only a bumbling idiot, but also a bully who demands respect he isn't entitled to while showing none to others. I imagine his backstory containing a bitter ex wife who dumped him and a couple of kids he never sees being raised by their stepfather since she remarried.
My theory about Vernon's backstory is that he had a similar upbringing to Bender's, Andrew's, Princess' and Brian's: physical, and psychological abuse and pressure to win, succeed, fit in, and be tough. He was probably a school bully in his youth, possibly a jock from a blue-collar, or middle-class family.
I always thought that as the movie is set in the 1980s, there's a strong chance that Vernon may have served in a post-WW2 conflict (be it Veitnam or Korea). Thus he's a vetran, many vets at this time came back with an old-school militaristic school of thought to discipline and heirachy ... As well as, coming back with PTSD - which often went untreated. Then looking at Vernon, he seems like the kind of grunt that would probably brown-nose upper-brass enough to be raised to an NCO rank whilst being the kinna prick that pisses off every other grunt ... meaning that he'd have no respect from the grunts but enough authority to mess with them and instill compliance through the behaviours we see here (hazing, tossing racks and handing out chitties), whilst getting only enough support from management to not be a spanner in the works but not enough to be able to succeed in the role of NCO! I mean, his attitude and demenour remind me so much of the Dad in the Twisted Sister music video for We're Not Going To Take It .... "I was in veitnam, carrying an M16 and leading men at your age ... And you, you ... Oh Buddy, you are a waste of space with your rock music and your rebel yell!"
I believe Richard Vernon was the assistant principal. Not *the* principal, but the *assistant* principal, falling short of being the top guy. He had a Napoleon complex and took it out on the only targets he could because of his self-resentment.
Thank you for making these videos. I've been in therapy for five and a half years now, and the first time I really got perspective on how different I am from most people was last year when I came across your Breakfast Club videos. I never understood why anyone liked dramas in general, and your analysis showed me how different my understanding of the motivations/thoughts/feelings of fictional characters--and probably also real people--is from most people's understanding.
I don't think Vernon is a narcissist, I think he's an adult who has no control over his life. He's middle aged and all he'll ever be is a school Vice principal that no one respects or likes. That's a tough identity to accept, but acceptance is necessary in order to grow. The kids are easy targets to project his shame and self worth onto. I do want to point out that he's not actually a teacher, but the Vice Principal. So, perhaps he started as a teacher and after so many years was eventually promoted to Vice Principal. So, he likely is burnt out and just doesn't want to be around kids anymore. I felt this way towards the end of my customer service "career." I was just so burnt out that I did not want to speak to customers anymore. If they were friendly, I would do my best to listen. If they were entitled or angry, I would excuse myself politely and walk out of the room. (Leaving another coworker to deal with them because who cares?) I always felt like Vernon really wanted to reach these kids and knew that he was not capable of doing it. The look on his face when Bender curses at him behind the door is truly heartbreaking. I believe Vernon was once someone who wanted to help kids and ended up being the opposite. He knows that he treats these kids bad and he knows that he's failed them. I think Bender broke him, but if they had kept that scene in perhaps we could have seen an epiphany on his end. I don't think the director cared to give him that much depth though. He wanted the focus to be solely on the kids because he wanted it to speak to teens who really needed a voice at the time. Vernon is one of my favorite underrated characters in this film.
I recently rewatched the movie and it dawned on me. Why is Vernon choosing to have them do detention for a full Saturday? The answer might build a window into his personal life and may be one of the root causes for why the character lashed out easily and why he is so jaded and angry throughout the whole film. Perhaps he is quite similar to Bender with his home life. Maybe he fights with his wife just as Bender fights with his parents. And he’s using this detention as an escape to a more ‘peaceful’ way to spend his Saturday. He seems more drawn to Bender depsite the fact that he is at odds with him compared to the rest of the kids. Maybe this is because he subconsciously identifies with his behaviour. And this theory further corroborates when he is willing to spend Saturdays running detentions with Bender for 8 more weeks when he clearly doesn’t like Bender. Or perhaps he does not have any friends or much of a social life outside of the high school because his abrasive attitude is his natural demeanour. So rather than spend weekends doing nothing, he would rather run detentions as it gives him something to do. This movie really makes you think deeply about the characters!
Carl next! But in order to accurately analyze him you'll need to see the deleted scenes. Also get a screen grab from the opening where Carl is pictured as most likely to succeed, or whatever the Shermer equivalent was.
The breakfast club was a story of stereotypes, when mixing with other different ppl then themselves, brought forth that Awakening growth n healing. The teens were afraid they were going to grow up to be like their Parents! I feel like vernon, can be suggested as an example of someone who missed out on his emotional growth as a kid that these kids got to have--n thats why hes so course, hard but also struggling on the inside. Hes stuck in his stereotype Like the teens themselves. They had a stereotype, ppl saw their mask, but they were struggling on the inside. And throughout the move there was no true interaction vernon had with the kids where was an an exchange of meaningful dialogue Until* he read their paper. N as you said, he finally experienced that first step of self reflection, and awakening* The reason why this movie was so well made, was the relatability and story telling, and it told a story of the kids struggle n growth n vernon was an antagonist… at a different pace we see him also stuck in a stereotype of a adult. At the end he was getting his breakthrough too. N the movie doesn’t say it--they Show it Happening. Beautifully written movie n story telling
i see a burnt out man who probably at one point wanted to educate kids but had ZERO support. Maybe i'm just projecting, as a former teacher, but he just seems like a cliche of an 80s teacher. He reminds me of my old math teacher who WAS a burned out teacher. She was 2 years away from retirement and you could just tell that she had given up. She was cranky and snapped at us a lot. She was on edge because she was used to kids "fighting" her (by fighting i mean daring to question her instructions or genuinely questioning what was happening because they honestly didn't understand). Everything was a confrontation with her. She had so many kids over the years trying to find ways to cheat, or game her system that she had become jaded and would only half listen to you (as she assumed she had heard it all). I'll give her credit that she tried to find extra points for many of us to get us to pass our regents tests (because she didn't want us a second year either), but she wouldn't try different methods of doing things to meet us where we struggled. She taught me what NOT to be as a teacher. And he reminds me of her. Just someone who is so burned out by students fighting them that he has decided that they're all bad and the concept that he might need to adapt is beyond his grasp.
I work with "difficult" teenagers and I have some rules; do not threaten, but most especially if you can't/won't back the words up - if you are forced to make a "threat" you must follow up, but it should be an absolute last resort. Make clear rules upfront - youth are supposed to push at their boundaries but inconsistent boundaries confuse them (leading to anger, fear, apathy) In my experience youth actually react favorably if they know where they stand, there is consistency and their opinion is heard. The most important thing is to treat them as individuals worth of respect, connect with them, give them a chance to trust you and follow through.
Great video. It's not easy to zero in on the nuance of such an un-nuanced character, but you teased out the clues that revealed his third dimension. It's not much of one - he's more of a bas-relief than a 3D sculpture - but you shone a light at just the right angle to see what depth was there.
The more i think about vernon, the more i notice that he seems to approach his job less like an educator and more like a prison warden. He demonstrates no real expectation that anything he does will affect these kids positively, he just seems to expect that he has to keep these kids for X number of hours a day for 4 years and survive them. Everything he does seems very focused on this power struggle, this need to assert and reassert his dominance, as if a deadly riot could break out the moment they see him as anything but the Big Bad. In that context, even Brian’s attempts at conversation could be threatening, because any whiff of connection threatens to erode his position of power. In that context, too, any petty discomfort he can force on them, no matter how meaningless, is an opportunity he cannot pass up, not because he needs the kids to learn anything or suffer, but because he needs them to know he can force them. Seeing all of that makes me wonder what drove vernon to become a teacher in the first place, seeing has he so clearly hates it. Teaching takes a significant amount of education, and you have to put in a lot of effort to move up into a more exalted position like principal. Why did he put in so much effort to pursue teaching, public education teaching, no less, probably long after he ceased to believe in education?
Something that has interested me is that sometimes teachers spend more time around kids than other adults. They came from high school to university and then back into a school. Their emotional responses can seem quite childish (at least to other adults living with adults). The only emotional schema they have are childish emotional responses all day. Some have not had time to grow up themselves before being put into the job.
Ooh, "Vernon" also plays one of abusive dad's marine buddies in "The Great Santini", which could actually be his backstory, because he's the guy who wants to be Bull Meacham who he respects and idolizes, but just can't quite manage it!
i think also having to be the only teacher stuck coming in on the weekend to run saturday detention will wear you down and resent the students also. we don't know how he is as a normal teacher just as a disciplinary figure. i can only speak from my experiences but i had a favorite teacher in high school and he was very different between his normal class and running detention.
Vernon checked out about the same time the kids did, he was down with the janitor being himself, while they were having the best talk of the film... simultaneously, brilliant.
Have you ever tried to help someone who didn’t want your help? One of the curses of getting older is that you think you have the answers but you can’t pass them on because people need to learn these lessons for themselves.
That's kind of one of the joys with counselling: you're not trying to provide answers at all, your trying to help them figure it out, they're the ones in the driving seat. It's kind of the bit that I find makes the work most fun, and often I find myself learning things too. Your comment is spot on but that's also kind of the shame: when we get old and stuck in our ways, thinking we know the answers, that our experiences always apply to the new kids, rather than letting curiosity take over and help, in a way, keep us young too
@@mylittlethoughttree And, people learn lessons at different times in their life. It's kind of the tragedy of the character. He's supposed to be the adult in the room but acts like a child because he has learned how to communicate. We're lucky to be living through more enlightened times. When I speak to Gen Z's I'm struck by how much more EQ they have than people my age and older. Keep up the great work mate!
Thank you always giving me something enjoyable and thought provoking to watch. Since there is not much about Carl himself in the movie, it could be interesting to address him as a foil to the other characters, particularly to Vernon, if/when you do a video on him. Carl has a job with significantly less clout than Vernon and puts significantly less effort into trying to intimidate the kids. He only defends himself when Bender makes a crack about Andrew wanting to pursue a career in the custodial arts; up to then, he is friendly and willing to play along. But, as much as Vernon tries, Carl is also the one who actually intimidates Bender (when he mentions looking through the kids' lockers) and seems to get his respect (judging by the smile he is wearing at the end of Carl's speech and, particularly, after Carl notices but does not attempt to fix the clock being fast). Carl seems to be the authority figure that sets boundaries (you will not belittle me) but also picks his battles (you want to get out of here 20 minutes early and found a way to do it? Fine. No skin off my nose.) and, therefore, actually gets through to the students. The way Allison smiles at Carl's comment about the kids being shitheads (which I could imagine someone who feels like a forced outcast amongst her peers might find fun to hear; it makes it clear that the popular people who rule the school aren't so perfect either) before seeming to make an effort to suppress it, and the fact he obviously has enough of a relationship with Brian to call him out by name and ask how he's doing (which, based on his facial expression, I feel like Brian both enjoys and is embarrassed by because of his current company) shows, I think, that Carl has the ability to breakthrough to the students in a way that Vernon has no chance of anymore, at least not anymore. I say anymore since, based on Carl's picture being shown as the school's Man of the Year for 1969, the movie coming out/being set in 1985, and Vernon stating that he has been a teacher for 22 years, there is a non-zero chance that Carl was a student back when Vernon was a newer and less cynical teacher. He could have seen the light in Vernon go out over the years, and that's why he is not afraid to call him out on it. Or maybe that's just Carl's character by nature: tolerate no bullshit, but don't bother taking offense to it either. I have been looking through clips of the movie online trying to figure out how I got this impression, but I always thought Carl was the Bender of his time. I can't find any proof of that in the movie itself, though, to date. Being Man of the Year for his class, maybe he was an Andrew instead: the popular jock. Maybe even a little bit of a Brian: the class president and voted most likely to succeed. All wild conjecture, of course. But, being Man of the Year shows that he was likely popular and respected enough by his classmates to get the title. Now, he is just a lowly janitor and, as such, the object of ridicule in the same halls by equivalents of the same people that got him the title. Yet he does not seem to mind. Again, in contrast to Vernon and his resistance to how the world and his place in it has changed. Carl is zen.
These videos are great. You should probably analize "St. Elmo's Fire" and "About Last Night" characters after you're done with these. Just to keep It 80s themed lol.
"Young versus old" is a metaphor for "The People versus the state." When I was in high school in the '90s, my principal really knew how to "put the 'pal' in 'princi-pal'," to quote Mr. Belding from 'Saved by the Bell'. So he and I got along just fine. The dean was my arch-nemesis. He was old-minded, stern, had sunken eyes surrounded by permanent shadow, and looked like a Nazi zombie in a suit and tie. 1:03 It's always hilarious when totalitarian conformist authority figures accuse the people they oppress of being "arrogant" when hubris and elitism are exactly what THEY embody. 2:08 See?! Self-absorbed, yet he accuses others of "arrogance" like a textbook collectivist hypocrite. 3:17 Apparently, he's either an old-school Catholic or a Freemason. Oh, did you think satanists came up with that gesture? Nah. They culturally expropriated it just like they did with the inverted cross and the inverted pentagram. 3:38 So that would make it sort of a Roman empire thing. Maybe. To the students, he would represent the tyranny of the Roman empire, symbolically speaking. 3:42 Dio is credited as being the first to use it in that context, but he got the idea from his Italian Catholic grandmother. He didn't care too much for the pomp and circumstance of the papist religion (neither did Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, btw), but he was an advocate of practical morality. So he was for morality but against militancy. Seems like a sensible perspective. 3:59 "Lacquer Head knows but one desiah! Lacquer Head sets his skull on fiah!" 6:27 Textbook hypocrite like all authoritarian conformists. 7:28 No, they think you're a tyrant. 8:14 Door stops. Schools typically have plenty of them. He's never had to handle the physical aspects of his workplace, so he doesn't immediately think of that like a teacher or janitor would. His mind is locked in its own ivory tower. It's a textbook top-down way of looking at the world that illustrates why people like that don't deserve respect. It's also a tendency that promotes kakistocracy (aka "idiocracy"). 8:43 [cough, cough] Jordan Peterson [cough, cough] 9:08 Adjusted for stagflation, that's equivalent to $90,000 a year nowadays! Not bad, not bad. 9:22 That should make him sympathize more with the students if he genuinely feels like he's the one being oppressed. Instead, like a hypocrite, it makes him behave even more like an order-mongering conformist oppressor instead of embracing the liberating chaos of freedom and individuality. 10:48 My dad was like that. Used to talk down to me like that. He died in 1999 when I was 19. I honestly didn't care. I felt nothing. Neither morose grief nor morbid glee. Just nothing. Had some jerweeds who talked down to me like that in my former workplaces in my teens and 20s. Some of them are dead now. Again, I couldn't care less. 14:01 'The Experiment' (a remake of 'Das Experiment') also explores that concept. 22:12 Turning the system against itself.
Yes this kind of teachinv is still around, notably in male pe teachers I wont say the name but the 16 year old was repeatedly shouted at with no joke, the phrase "you bring nothing to this school" in front of everybody because he cut a speaker wire during the fitness grand pacer test
Your analysis videos on these movies are my favorite, I love how you take the time to be so thorough, and it makes me love these characters even more and see them in a different light than before. Have you considered other John Hughes films, like Ferris Bueller’s Day Off? I would love to see your interpretation of Ferris and his friend Cameron, maybe about their contrasting personalities and their friendship, since Ferris is confident and Cameron is more of a worrier grump type; how the ending effects Cameron also. Just an idea ;)
It's so cool of this film to have that janitor character be someone Vernon apparently grew up with and still respects and treats as a friend (Carl's blackmail not withstanding). Even though John Hughes was from a relatively privileged background and focuses on that kind of community, he is one of the best filmmakers ever for respecting characters regardless of their economic class.
I had a teacher like Vernon in grade 8. The guy would choose the three hottest girls every year, put them at the front in lounge chairs, and spoil them with attention and compliments. Everyone else he would treat like crap. He didn't like me because I'm a disabled female, therefore not sexy, and I made him look stupid a few times. Like, he took my eraser and then told me he'd give it back if I spelled the name of it, which was Staedtler. I did it promptly. You should have seen the look on his face, so pissed off. He had to give me the eraser back.
Baron Von Stuben on Americans; He was used to European soldiers who rarely questioned orders. Frustrated, von Steuben wrote in his personal diary the following entry. In Europe, you say to your soldier, “Do this” and he does it. But I am obliged to say to the American, “This is why you ought to do this,” and only then does he do it. The kids haven't changed. We've been the same all along.
I think Bender see’s Vernon as someone he could potentially become one day and that inspires him (out of fear of being like Vernon) to have a more positive change
I have this vision of Vernon enrolling in a police academy, washing out, and taking up teaching as a very distant second choice. Society as a whole would probably be better off with him as a teacher instead of a cop; can you imagine Vernon with a gun?
I think it's interesting that the janitor says the kids haven't changed; Vernon has. That's both true and not true. There have always been rebellious kids. However, in the 50's and 60's, kids were taught to give respect automatically to authority figures, and this attitude carried into the 70's. However, with Vietnam and Watergate, prevailing societal attitudes changed and adults started questioning authority in a way they'd not before in the U.S., and this change spread to the kids so by the time the 80's rolled around, kids no longer automatically gave respect to adults simply because they were adults or authority figures. They questioned if those adults deserved their respect. This of course means Vernon must now ask himself, Do I merit respect? That's a question he probably never had to ask himself at the beginning of his career. Kids did as they were told, except for the few rebellious ones, and obviously they were the ones who were in the wrong. By the 80's, though, it was no longer assumed that these kids were wrong to act out ... maybe they had the right idea. This was a central question in our society in the 80's. Sadly, things escalated to school shootings in the 90's, leading us to try new approaches to discipline, but we really haven't figured out yet how to regain control of the situation. While I am for gun regulation, I do believe that even if all the guns were removed from the environment, we'd still have a discipline problem that would need to be resolved. Adults and kids alike no longer respect authority in the U.S., and it is leading to a fundamental breakdown in our society. If we do not find a way to shift attitudes back to authority being legitimized in some way - perhaps through meritocracy - we may well see the collapse of society in the U.S. altogether. I don't know if other countries are having this sort of identity crisis. I think the UK and other developed nations still retain a fundamental respect for authority on an ideological level that the U.S. no longer has. It's something that needs to be reintroduced here, or this country is in serious jeopardy long-term. We will tear ourselves down from within. Sorry for the tangent. It's a great movie that captures the spirit of the 80's perfectly. And to answer your question, I think most parents in the 80's would have patted Vernon on the back for his tough approach and said he was doing the right thing; he would not have been suspended or even reprimanded for his behavior towards the kids. He certainly would be fired these days for behaving that way, though. Times have changed, and some of that is good. I do think authority should be questioned. However, if we find in questioning it that it is valid and good to have, we should let it do its job. The U.S. could learn a lot from other countries that have already figured out this balance, if only we'd take the time to study them. Loved the video! Here's hoping you do one for the janitor too. :)
This gives me a lot to think about. I'd never considered ideas of authority in that way. It's only when I stop to consider it, I realise even I have zero respect for authority. I don't see any of it as unconditional and I don't trust the British government at all. That's not to say I rage against it, but I certainly don't respect it. I suppose it comes down to the loss of belief that they have the people's best interests at heart. Combine that with the loss of belief in Christianity or whatever religion, loss of national pride, and loss of a sense of community as places become more isolated...what are people left to believe in? In many ways that's a good thing as the questioning forces people to consider what they believe in on a deeper level...but the disadvantage is it leaves a lot of people a bit lost. But then perhaps that does come down to authority genuinely not having best interests at heart? Either from people who don't care or too few good people that either get burned out by the sheer weight, or are too limited by the (sometimes good, sometimes bad) regulations around them? People do respect teachers that they felt cared about them. Kids tend to remember those teachers for the rest of their lives. They didn't demand respect but earned it by building trust and connection so that, even if you did question them over things, there was still a solid foundation. Perhaps that's what's lacking: we have the awareness to question authority but not the space for dialogue, not the sense we can have much affect, either on a national or local level? I don't know, I haven't thought about it much. I'm certainly also pro gun regulation, I'll say that much. Too often people make the argument that it wouldn't solve everything, as a reason to do nothing. Laws on speed limits don't stop all car crashes, or even stop all people speeding, but they still help reduce it
@@mylittlethoughttree So true; laws help. I really wasn't sure how things are in other countries when I wrote my comment, so I appreciate your reply. I don't know what the answer is regarding authority to improve things, but I know the U.S. is hurting right now and we do need to find a new balance that works for us to rebuild our societal structure instead of killing each other. Thanks for your response!
This video got me thinking that maybe Vernon was the nerd or ‘brain’ when he was in high school, which is why he’s so mean to Brian and competitive with Bender. Whether he knows it or not, I’m sure Vernon is more angry at himself than he is any of these kids.
I like to think Vernon was something of a rebel himself. Maybe not to such extents as Bender, but, maybe he was a little Rock n Roller back in the day, and over time became this arse of a teacher. Carl says he changed. I mean, he is - admittedly - quite fashionable and somewhaz vain, like he tried to keep up but got lost in the shuffle. Also, the "hard-ass" attitude is also somewhat apparent in Bender, that 'not-backing-down,' mentality. Interesting paralell. (Just my observation and how i interpret it)
It really bugs me that we never really find out what vernon did the week after. The students became aware of their problems but they can't really help themselves. Most of them are suffering at home due to their parents destroying their mental health, and have no one to talk to. They spend most of their time at school were their problems are indirectly shown to the teachers, but they either don't want to see it (vernon leaving the room) or don't have the capacity to deal with it. They just put the students in boxes (topic of the movie i know) and reinforcing the trauma they are dealing with at home. John has a violent father and vernon wants to fight him, allyson is ignored at home and teachers dont even know her name etc.. Parents are the first bullies, and the teachers are the second one (sadly it's still like this, techers would actually come up to me like "oh you again didn't talk at all" or "wow she can say more than one sentence"). Schools should instead be more equipped to help such students, they spend most of their time there, the problems are obvious but ignored (benders pin on his glove literally says "not saved"). The children are aware of themselves, and the essay quite literally feels like "we are more than your perception of us, please look behind your boxes and help us". I hope some techers saw this movie and actually tried to understand their students. (Kinda useless comment ik, basically just the plot and content from this video. But thank you for making these analysis 😊)
The idea that "nothing ever changes" can be just as wrong as saying "kids these days". Long-term trends are a thing, and so people over time can consistently draw the same conclusion. And, sometimes things *do* change; sometimes similar-looking things are fundamentally different.
You're wrong about something and I think it's important. Vernon isn't a simple teacher, he's the vice principal which is a job often with more responsibility than the actual Principal. Just from the standpoint of work, he's stuck at work on a Saturday and getting only one day off. The man is likely really burnt out. He and Carl are about the same age and act like they've known each other for a long time. Look at Carl we see on the wall he was voted "Man of the Year" in 1969(and had a full head of hair). Everyone loves the janitor, they clean up, never punish anyone, and are normally pretty chill. Now Vernon, I bet Vernon loved his job, was the cool fun teacher and the kids loved him... And then they "promoted" him. Now he's stuck being the person to dish out punishments and all the kids hate him. The first set of kids would have still known him as fun and wouldn't hate him too much but after the first 3-4 years none of them know the fun him. It would feel like the kids had changed, he uses "cool" lines to recapture that but it fails. His assignment wasn't bad and was certainly better than just sitting there. I don't think he likes being the one that has to deal out punishments and isn't uncomfortable with it. That discomfort makes him feel like he can't back down or the whole thing will blow up in his face, and what's more he can't afford to quit the job and take a pay cut because of his house payments leaving him to feel trapped. Oh, I don't know how old you are or what your school experiance would be with the 80s but the being locked in the closet wasn't that uncommon.My school when I was 6-8 even had a "timeout room" for that, and it was still perfectly legal to use corporal punishment in schools.
I would Love to see a breakfast club movie 30 years later. Where did they end up? I’m pretty confident however the right producer would never be able to do it Justice. Hard to say I guess unless someone tries it.
@@ShinyAvalon no. There’s no expanded universe for the Count of Monte Cristo. There’s no expanded universe for Don Quixote. Those who crave expanded universes are mid-wits who lack imagination and the ability to deal with the unknown and ambiguity. You’re probably disappointed that Solo did not reveal how Han Solo got the red stripe on his pants. Maybe that can be in the next prequel!
@@tanizaki - You're not getting it. Good fiction uses small details to suggest a greater world beyond the surface of a story - what we call "depth" or "subtext." We pick up that depth subconsciously, like hearing echoes resonate from spaces beyond what we see. People who become curious about those deeper spaces are just responding to the hints from those echoes. They're evidence that a story is really, really good.
@@ShinyAvalon I get it just fine. Being curious about Captain Ahab’s past is one thing. Asking for a prequel called Ahab that shows him losing his leg is idiocy and shows a lack of imagination. Few consoomers understand this.
Honestly, I never really saw Vernon (or Carl) as a character. He always came across as a set piece more than a person that's supposed to be a fully fleshed out character. He's the authority that represents the school, which is the stand-in for society in this movie. Carl was the working class and Vernon was the ruling class. One could identify with the kids and interact with them without being cruel, while the other sat around bored all day with nothing better to do than harass the teenagers in the library. He's Judge Dredd without the gore and he really shows it when he goes after Bender, adding months of incarceration just for speaking.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This character is textbook overt narcissist. Narcs are 2 dimensional, BTW. Ben is a classic scapegoat. The actor that plays the teacher frakking nailed the narc squint. Shame is both a loathing to feel for a narc and a tool against others. Good that you mentioned shame, as it is usually at the root of that personality type. The Breakfast Club is a film I never really respected until now. It was a perfect depiction of the punishment driven society we've built for ourselves. I think we are just now starting to realise that a support driven society is the one that allows everyone to grow.
I interpreted Vernon's behaviour as dismissive. He wants to keep the kids in their assigned roles and doesn't bother giving kids like bender a chance to be someone else. For instance he always believes bender will be a criminal and chooses to ignore his homelife.
I think Vernon needs a a two day weekend to play some golf and maybe have a date night with his wife. Why does this guy have to spend every Saturday at his school? No wonder he’s losing his mind. Maybe the point of him spending the next 2 months with Bender just shows that he’s as trapped as Bender. Maybe more so. Bender is young and has time to escape the system that he’s stuck in.
The two have different meanings, empathy is more about understanding how someone feels, stepping into their shoes. Sympathy is more about feeling sorry for them...which sometimes doesn't mean actually trying to understand. Sometimes sympathy can mean excusing things, as well. There's a well known video by Brene Brown about empathy Vs sympathy. It's short and simple and easy to find on youtube
So there are a couple of things about Vernon, that you wouldn't understand unless you grew up in Middle America, given his age and the fact its 1985, there is a very high likely hood he was drafted, or enlisted to avoid being drafted, the one big tell is the liter and a half container of black coffee, while Americans in general would drink coffee, mainlining coffee all day was a sign of previous military experience. He also makes a four bells reference in the deleted scenes which guarentees he had been in the Navy. Another minor detail is the Chicago White Sox hat in his office(the janitor is wearing a White Sox T-shirt under his overalls), while the School the movie was filmed in, is in the North Suburbs, while the White Sox are situated in South Chicago, while the Chicago Cubs are in North Chicago. It does establish that Vernon is from the Chicago area(Americans in this time period did not change franchise loyalty in baseball) and his accent is more Southern Chicago(Irish) while the kids(Molly Ringwald in particular) speaks a very North Suburb accent common with Jewish girls of the time(Niles North was about half jewish in this time, so women in this area picked up the accent even when their parents speak the older chicago accent that Vernon speaks). So he(Vernon) is from roughly the same background, though due to his age he probably grew up in the middle class neighborhoods of Chicago proper, while the kids are suburbanites, and three of the five come from upper middle class(particularly Allison and Claire, while Bender and Andrew appear to come from the Farming community that existed before the suburbs ate the farmlands(The truck Andrew's father drives all but typecasts him)). In the deleted scenes he is struggling with a Cigarette vending machine(these would disapear in the public in America by 1995 entirely) which does suggest that in adition to having his caffiene fix, he is not getting his nicotene either, which is probably why his blow up toward the end of the movie happens.
I'll tell you, Vernon would make a terrible world leader or POTUS. (I know I am getting political here, but still). If he were to run for POTUS, he would seem more like a dictator/authoritarian leader than a president.
If you think Vernon is interesting I’d be interested in your thoughts on the teacher character of Southgate on the 1990s Australian teen series ‘Heartbreak High’
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2) So I don't think the edited section in the video was actually necessary, I just felt I wasn't wording things the best. Normally I'd have reasons to discuss why Vernon is so concerned with his image, so humiliated by what the kids say or do, so incredibly aggressive. There will be deeper for a lot of it but, as far as the film shows us, all we get are the external factors. As a result, that's really the only bit I get to touch on. The deleted scenes are also quite revealing though. Theres this exchange I was going to include in the video between Vernon and Carl (I'm paraphrasing based on memory)
Vernon: So what, you expect me to get down on my knees and... and love them, is that it?
Carl: Nah, man. Understand them.
Vernon: Understand? Give them a whack, that's all they understand!
Again, culture plays a role there as this sort of approach to raising children was still quite common at the time (still is in areas). Naturally, it's an approach that lines up with what his own desires are. As far as he sees it, either whack them or you're made to get on your knees and grovel. Either I make them submit, or they will make me. He refuses to see that there are other options.
3) So if, and it is an if. IF Vernon does get some very faint growth by the end of the film...what happens next Monday? He's still seeing Bender for another 8 weeks of detentions, right? Except next time it will just be them. Having made some growth, will he have the strength to admit "I've not been good to you, and I want to try and get along better with you going ahead, I hope you can work with me on that." It's hard to know exactly what he can say because, as the above quote suggests, anything too apologetic would feel too much grovelling for him to manage. He has to try and connect, otherwise I could Bender either running wild over the course of 8 detentions, or they could both provoke eachother to such extremes that one of them is either expelled or suspended...probably Bender expelled, based on who would be believed. Or does he call off the detentions, admit he was ridiculous to give him so many, that it won't help either of them. I suppose that's possible. There's a lot of options for what could happen, it's interesting to think about. I'd like to think that maybe, with just the two of them there, they'd gradually find a way to connect. I doubt enough to resolve everything, but maybe enough for them to survive without killing each other (metaphorically).
4) The other thing about Vernon not staying in the room is that he's setting a goal they are doomed to fail at. It's a typical parenting mistake: set an impossible expectation "all of you must stay still and silent for AN ENTIRE DAY without the need of any supervision." Obviously they fail and then, because it was the expectation, Vernon feels like it was a personal betrayal: "I gave you my trust, and look what you did!" So not only does it make him unnecessarily angry but it also teaches the kids they are doomed to fail. They never get to experience meeting expectations, doing well, not feeling like failures precisely because they were set up to fail. Either set achievable goals that succeeding in would build their confidence and self-belief, or be sure to supervise to help prevent them from reaching the point of failure.
I never went to detention when I was in school, so I'm not sure how it works, but I think the teachers took turns monitoring detention, so it's likely Vernon wouldn't be the teacher there the next weekend or next one, etc. Even if he said he'd "see" him there in detention, I'm not sure he'd be back monitoring detention any time soon. Bender might be stuck for the next 8 weeks with 8 different teachers. Idk for sure, but I think that's the way it'd likely play out.
Great video as usual, 2 observations from my perspective.
1. You mention that you think Vernon is something of a caricature of a person, and cite things like the way he uses catchphrases as a primary method of communication, and his body posture routines. The snapping of fingers and making the bull horn gestures, and similar behavior as signs of this 2 dimensional nature of him. I have to disagree, because Vernon IS my regional supervisor where I work. Maybe this is a personality quirk unique to the US, and maybe from that generation predominantly, but once I started watching this video, and hearing your breakdown of his traits, I instantly saw my regional manager. He IS Vernon. It was kind of a crazy revelation, but he really is. He has that "talking over you" demeanor, you always feel like you are just waiting for him to stop talking and for him to leave whenever he makes a presentation. There is zero engagement with him, it's all just enduring his presence until you can be rid of him. So yeah, I think that Vernon is, depressingly, more realistic than you might think. 🤣
2. I think part of the reason he is so confrontational with Bender is that he WAS Bender in his generation. I think he sees all the ways he behaved as a teenager, being reflected back at him. And he remembers the angry thoughts HE had back then towards HIS adult caretakers,(without remembering all of the pain, fear, confusion that accompanied those thoughts at that age) and so he lashes out at him. He hates to be reminded of what he used to be. Because Bender and Vernon both have the same aggressive, insulting way of talking with everyone. The way Vernon addresses the other kids, sounds VERY much like how Bender talks to them. Taunting them by their archetype names, mocking their home life, and just calling them weird, etc. That's probably why Bender gets made back at him as well, because he probably is thinking similar thoughts about the other kids in the room with him, and hates that he might share something in common with Vernon.
Vernon feels that his life has been wasted, that he himself isn't much of a worthwhile person, and he is railing at the bars of the cage he made for himself, with poor decisions, and an unresolved anger complex. You mentioned in your Bender review, about how he had a similar relationship with his father, and that's why he always confronts Vernon, because they are a similar paternal figure. I think that plays into it as well. Vernon is looking at a younger version of him, and Bender is looking at an older version of himself as well (reminiscent of his father, as they would be of a similar age). I think Vernon never resolved his issues as a kid, but did learn how to be semi-functional in society. That he wasted his potential, and had to settle for a dead-end teaching job at his own highschool. He thought he'd "have it all figured out" by this point in his life, but all he's doing is just spinning his wheels. He feels just as trapped as the kids, and hates to see it thrown back in his face every day. And the fact that his own failures are revealed to him, in "The Criminal"'s behavior, makes it doubly insulting. It's not Bender's fault, but Vernon takes it out on him anyway.
Anyway, those were just a few observations I had while watching your video. Keep up the good work!
Technically I should put this on Claire's video. But this is more recent so I thought I'd put this here instead. I just noticed at the very beginning. Look at the way Claire's dad looks at her. I think Claire has it at least partially wrong about her parents. I don't think they're merely using here to get back at one another. The way dad looks at her, he clearly LOVES her SO much. Whatever he's doing it's not just using her as a pawn, but also out of leniency they'd offer somebody they really really love.
About Vernon's job: he is a vice principal or assistant principal (I don't remember the exact title), not a teacher. He is essentially an unofficial police officer because his main responsibility--essentially his whole job--is to catch and punish the students' bad behavior. It's easy to confuse that with thinking that his job is bullying the students. He might have been a teacher in the past, and now he's trying to climb the job ladder.
@@jennifermems1111 Carl says to Vern "You took a teaching job because you thought it would be fun" Vern doesn't correct him. Odds are high he was a teacher at one point, and even as a Vice Principal, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he still does teach some tertiary class, though unlikely. It's not too important really. What is important in the story is what he represents.
I think the most “hurts because it’s true” moment is when Carl tells Vernon “the kids haven’t changed, you changed!”
I agree. I think Vernon got older and kind of expected the kids to grow up with him. But they never do they are just replaced by a new crop of 14-18 olds each year and teenagers will always be teenagers. His patience started to wear thin with some of their comments and shenanigans.
He wanted the kids to respect him but as Carl also said "if you were 16, what would you think of you"? Carl was much more in tune with how high school kids are and always will be and didn't take their jokes or behavior personally and Vernon did.
It doesn't hurt if it doesn't have to.
I like how Vernon and Carl are deliberately portrayed as different sides of the same coin. Both are jaded and have to deal with disrespectful teenagers. But whereas Vernon lashes out at the kids, and goes over the top in trying to discipline them, especially Bender, Carl can see where they're coming from, and at least tries to do the right thing.
Hey! Cool to see you're still here and commenting :)
And an interesting point about that, Carl's approach is WAY more effective than Vernon's. As the kids walk out, they all have a genuine interaction with him. Even if it's nothing more than a casual wave and a smile, and a quite "cya" as they walk by him. Bender genuinely smiles at him, because he's gotten to know the janitor very well over the months of detention he's spent there. They all instantly recognize that the Janitor "is cool." He's not an asshole, he's not going to bother them, he's not going to try and control them (outside of his authority as a janitor at least), and he doesn't judge them. He smiles back at them, waves to all of them as people, and understands that they are just kids, trying to figure shit out, just like he did.
I don't think Carl is jaded, so much as he's just a realist. He knows what his life is, and just how trivial and minor his authority is. But where Vernon rails at the restraints of his authority, trying to have more than is his due, Carl has settled into his position. He knows what is expected of him, what he expects from everyone else, and just goes about his day. He knows that all the stuff going on there isn't the end of the world drama that Vernon makes it out to be. It's just high school, and they are just kids, and you really shouldn't take it all so seriously, or personally. The fact that Carl understands this, and Vernon doesn't, is the sign that Carl is a fairly well adjusted human being, but Vernon is not.
@@happyninja42 I think I remember that the movie fleetingly reveals that Carl was big deal in the same high-school when he was a student. That would make his arrival at acceptance of the world and his humble place in it even more remarkable.
@@nhmisnomer
Yeah, at the very beginning, they show a picture of him on the wall as Man of the Year, 1969.
@@mattslupek7988 there are is some question stuff at stage with Carl ("i'm spying on you" kind of moment) but maybe it was just show off.
I think the difference in between how Vernon and Carl interact with the kids is Carl remembers being one of them in his younger years and Vernon doesn't.
I always saw Vernon as a man who's being forced to come to terms with the possibility that he's unable to adapt to the changing world around him, particularly in his line of work.
It could be part of the reason as to why he's angry with the kids (and why he claims the kids turned on him, it's easier to place blame on someone else then accept that the problem could be you). In a sense he's LITERALLY in detention as much as the kids are with nothing to do, which is why he hides in his office the majority of the film. This may be unknowingly forcing Vernon to self-reflect and confront some personal demons that he may have been trying to avoid.
It could be a realization that he's losing control, power, and authority in more ways than one which can be very hard things to come to terms with (It could also be why the kids are making fun of it). And if that is the case, it would explain why he's very angry and aggressive with the kids: He's desperately fighting to KEEP his power and authority and is adamant on not changing his ways or teaching methods. "If things aren't working, you're not trying hard enough or putting in enough effort" could be an old mantra he's going by. But ironically by refusing to change and still going by your old ways in a sense is also a lack of effort on your part because it's easier to stick to what you know should work than trying to think of something new or try something new. And his growing age most likely could be making it even harder for him to keep up with it much like how you pointed out (I mean for how long can you keep fighting an uphill battle in the hopes of winning before collapsing from exhaustion?)
And for some men, it could result in a loss of motivation, drive or purpose. And ultimately, a man NEEDS to have a purpose in his life! And when he doesn't have one, he may end up sadly wanting his life to end sooner than it should.
That to me is the tragedy of Vernon, he's the portrait of a man who could be realizing that he's made a mistake in more ways than one and that the Bull's horns can't pierce or endure as much as they once were able to. That is why I sympathize for him, even though he's portrayed as the bitter, old authority figure just meant to discipline and belittle the kids.
He’s a child abuser
We can empathize without excusing behavior. I love that sentiment.
One of the facts about Vernon we learn in the film is that he, just like the kids he's watching, is stuck for a whole day in the school on a Saturday. In fact, he's one of only two adults we see in the school that day, the other being Carl, who as maintenance staff we'd expect to have weekend hours. It's almost like he is serving detention as well. The question the film doesn't answer is whether this is by choice. If not, then I can see him as being resentful at being stuck working every Saturday while everyone else is off watching kids who he views as bad apples and misfits. He hate's being there and takes it out on the kids (i.e. if they hadn't have behaved the way he did, he wouldn't have to be there in the first place.) If he's there by choice - if he was the teacher who developed the detention protocol and oversees it, then I think it says something else about his character. That he believes that tough love, his way or the highway is the only way to straighten these kids out, which ultimately manifests itself with a certain degree of cruelty. Or it could be a combination of both - perhaps he originally volunteered to handle detention as one of his extra-teaching staff duties out of a noble (and misguided) sense that he was going to straighten the bad kids out, but now just resents the role.
Or what, if like Bender, he wants to spend time away frmo his home life? Or, like Alison, ha snothing better to do?!
Very astute! I would wager for the third hypothesis, but it's all conjecture, right.
I always just assumed that the "Vernons" of the world (Like the junior high principal who stated as a fact that I was late for class because he'd "seen me talking to my friends in the hall" when I didn't actually have any) were just ticked off because they had a crappy job, because dealing with adolescents.......is not for everybody, so it was easiest for him to take his general dissatisfaction with his life on the good kids; I might have been a little bit of a "Brian" , but mostly an Allison!
It's certainly a factor, I think adults can often find it easy to become really cynical about the youth, which is always a shame
I've actually been looking forward to the Carl video the most. Carl was Shermer High's "Man of the Year" in 1969, but works as the janitor of that same high school 16 years later. Did he peak in High School? Did he go out into the world and fail, feeling like he was a big fish in a small pond? Was he so focused on being successful in high school that he wasn't prepared for the real world?
I have seen many kids fit this bill and staggering around for awhile before settling on a janitor's job like Carl. They are living high in high school. Everyone loves and admires them. Superstar athlete. Girls swooning over you. Then comes....reality. Post high school blues. No one in college gives a shit how "popular" you were in H.S. Since you focused solely on your own athletic glory, you're not much of a student and feel WAY behind the academic elites in college. You now face EVERY superstar at their high school and you played in a very weak division, so you are not even in the top 5 on your own team. It's brings on depression. There is nothing wrong with a janitor's job. It can be backbreaking work (depending on how hard you work), but I am sure no one grows up saying "I want to be a janitor."
I like how for the kids they are separated into their groups prom queen, Jock etc. But Carl (Janitor) and Vernon (teacher) don't see each other as someone from another group they just get along, see each other as equals and value each others opinions, even though they have opposing points of view at times. It's very interesting as one of those jobs is seen as respectable one and the other isn't by wider society. I think it sort of shows what happens when they grow up these groups will fade away and whatever their path in the future there is a good chance they can get along off the bat, rather than what it took in the movie
I never saw Vernon as a two-dimensional villain. He does comes off like that at first, because we see him through the kids's eyes, but the few scenes we see of him alone, like that deep sigh after Bender yell "F U!", spilling coffee all over his lunch or when he's talking to Carl show that he, like the kids, are more than their stereotypes. I've always seen him as a tragic, almost pathetic, figure. He might have a decent paying job and a home, but he's clearly unhappy with his life and how it's turned out. He never mentions a wife or kids of his own, but I doubt he would have all the saturday-detentions if he had a happy home life. He went into teaching with the vision and belief that he would create and inspire the leaders of tomorrow, only to find that it was alot harder and more emotionally draining than he anticipated, making him bitter and resentful. He's actually exactly what the kids fear to become when they grow up: angry, stuck in their mindset and taking it out on the younger generation.
My thoughts as well, but put together much better. 😊
Which is very sad.....
To me the film also represents the gen x vs boomer struggle. So Vernon's absence is necessary to represent the feeling of abandonment of the younger generation by the older. His vanity, self importance and lack oh humility as well as his attempts to hold on to his diminishing power are in many ways exactly how this generation saw the boomers. Perhaps that is always the case between generations but it seemed more intense between these 2. Gen x was in many ways characterized by not thier actions but the actions of thier parents. They were the latch key kids of divorce, the casualties of the war on drugs. Where the boomers where defined they were the undefined. Solve for X. In many ways the film was about the feeling of abandonment and expection felt by the kids and thier struggle for self definition specifically in the absence of the adults in thier lives. They were locked away by the world that didn't want to handle them and told "Figure it out for yourselves".
Also it is important here to recognize that the boomer generation was also dealing with a similar situation facing massive social and technological changes also with very little rudder to steer by.
Was Vernon a Boomer? I thought he was from the Silent Generation.
I feel like, if for whatever godforsaken reason they decide remake or (Heaven forbid) “modernize” The Breakfast Club, Judd Nelson should be cast as Vernon, just to bring it full circle.
I think Judd would be too old now
Another great analysis!! Your character analysis videos are really giving me a heightened appreciation for The Breakfast Club!! And I'm don't think I'm alone when I say this, but...
YES!!! PLEASE FINISH THE SERIES WITH CARL REED THE JANITOR!!! LIKE VERNON, I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT HIM (Even if your video would be a comparatively very short one!!)
Even though Vernon is not as complex as the rest of the characters, he's one of the most important lessons for me in this movie. The truth is throughout your life you are going to encounter Vernons: people who judge you, believe it's their mission to undermine you, are unhappy and will take it out on others. One of the most important things I've learned is: you can't make people do as you please, be what you want or feel in a way that pleases you and nobody can change that. There's people who'll hate you for being you. Don't turn into them.
#guru#purnima ki#hardik#shubhkamnaye#therapist #psychiatrist#psychologists #psychology#cbt#dbt#गुरु
ruclips.net/video/qtwG9ZHl9ng/видео.html
Honestly, the way Bender handles Vernon's closet tantrum is the best thing you can do. Don't speak to them, don't acknowledge what they're doing, and sure as hell don't do what they want. These kinds of people can't take being ignored, they have to have some weight on the people around them. They choose to make it a negative weight and that's their business. You can't make them decide they don't want to goad you into punching them, but you can refuse to stand, refuse to hit them, refuse to even speak, then climb out through the ceiling when they get tired and bored and sad. It may not feel like it, but not hitting Vernon in that moment hurt him worse than actually hitting him would have done.
Vernon seems to me like the kind of guy that's barely trying anymore. He's been in the job for too long (I assume), it's more tiring than fulfilling now so he goes for what seems to be instinctive for him, which is agression of some kind and not even giving the kids a chance. He's right, they are wrong. That's it. He also seems very insecure, so he postures a lot.
Thankfully I only had one teacher that behaved similarly to him, but the experience was bad enough that it stayed with all of my class for the rest of highschool. She was a literature teacher and god, she was so unfair and set on her ways. At a certain point she devided the class into left row: the one's that already failed the year, middle row: the ones that may pass, right one: the ones that are doing good. (I was in the middle, but she asked me to A: stop hanging out with the people that was failing and B: get full marks in absolutely everything (which was already harder than with other teachers)). I failed her class obviously, had to come back three times to do the do-over test that would let me pass, and I only got it right the last time cause she had failed so many kids, they had to divide us in to two groups and I got a different teacher to test me.
At one point she even did something very reminiscent of Vernon when he says that Bender is going to be a failure in five years. Just a horrible teacher through and through and I can safely say I learned nothing with that woman, except perhaps to rebel, which is funny cause I wasn't rebellious before her, I was terrified of saying no to a teacher but she just infuriated me.
Oh goodness may I never become a teacher ANYWHERE NEAR like that!!!.....
Right down to Vernon's outfit. This is early on a Saturday morning, but he's dressed to impress. Like he read a self-help book about "dressing for the job you want".
I'm so happy to see this. I really like your videos. The depth of empathy is so obvious.
Glad you got to his character, for some reason I thought you had already idk why lol
Tbh I think the adult characters in John hughes films imo were written with less nuance than the main youth, but principal Vernon is an exception
Despite the vice principal being a respected position, Vernon obviously holds high disdain for his job, with the underlying message being that success doesn't always lead to happiness. Same goes for Carl, since he used to be Man of the Year in 1969, but he now the janitor of the same school he graduated from, as indicated by the opening montage.
The Easter Egg of Carl's time as a student reveals so much about his backstory. Would love to hear your take on the character - even if it's a shorter video essay.
The "I make 31 thousand dollars a year." brag always hit me as weird. i know it was Chicago in the 80s so at least double that now, but its basically bragging that he has enough to get by. I'd say my salary now is somewhat comparable. Sounds like a lot to a 17 year old but factor in rent/mortgage, child care, groceries, etc its basically bragging, " I can pay my bills on time!" He probably knows this and is just saying it because he knows it sounds like a lot of money to a 17 year old
I always got the impression that Vernon was Andrew if he grew up and eventually failed at athletics (which happens to 99% of high school and college athletes) and never grew beyond his hatred of his father and thus never really recovers from not being a professional athlete and thus "settles" for a career in education.
I was in high school when this movie came out and I had teachers like Vernon. I remember my history teacher would have fits of rage, fling books off his desk and throw erasers at students who pissed him off. We were all scared to death of him. The challenges you point out that Vernon faces are valid but they're also things all educators deal with over years of teaching. The overwhelming issue with Vernon is his inability to control his anger. People like him have no business being in a position of authority over impressionable teenagers. His behavior (especially towards Bender but likewise with the other kids) was inexcusable. Vernon had the perfect opportunity to be a positive male role model for a kid raised by an abusive father. Instead he compounded his trauma and caused even more damage by ridiculing and threatening him. I'm sorry but I can't drum up much sympathy for a man who looks a teenage boy in the faces ahd tells him he's a loser who's never going to amount to anything.
In my opinion Vernon is a man with no redeeming qualities. He's not only a bumbling idiot, but also a bully who demands respect he isn't entitled to while showing none to others. I imagine his backstory containing a bitter ex wife who dumped him and a couple of kids he never sees being raised by their stepfather since she remarried.
My theory about Vernon's backstory is that he had a similar upbringing to Bender's, Andrew's, Princess' and Brian's: physical, and psychological abuse and pressure to win, succeed, fit in, and be tough. He was probably a school bully in his youth, possibly a jock from a blue-collar, or middle-class family.
I always thought that as the movie is set in the 1980s, there's a strong chance that Vernon may have served in a post-WW2 conflict (be it Veitnam or Korea).
Thus he's a vetran, many vets at this time came back with an old-school militaristic school of thought to discipline and heirachy ...
As well as, coming back with PTSD - which often went untreated.
Then looking at Vernon, he seems like the kind of grunt that would probably brown-nose upper-brass enough to be raised to an NCO rank whilst being the kinna prick that pisses off every other grunt ... meaning that he'd have no respect from the grunts but enough authority to mess with them and instill compliance through the behaviours we see here (hazing, tossing racks and handing out chitties), whilst getting only enough support from management to not be a spanner in the works but not enough to be able to succeed in the role of NCO!
I mean, his attitude and demenour remind me so much of the Dad in the Twisted Sister music video for We're Not Going To Take It ....
"I was in veitnam, carrying an M16 and leading men at your age ...
And you, you ... Oh Buddy, you are a waste of space with your rock music and your rebel yell!"
Nowhere does it imply that Vernon was a veteran.
@@robertisham5279 It is true that it was not stated it outright, but the odds are that he may have been drafted given his age and the time period.
I believe Richard Vernon was the assistant principal. Not *the* principal, but the *assistant* principal, falling short of being the top guy. He had a Napoleon complex and took it out on the only targets he could because of his self-resentment.
Thank you for making these videos. I've been in therapy for five and a half years now, and the first time I really got perspective on how different I am from most people was last year when I came across your Breakfast Club videos. I never understood why anyone liked dramas in general, and your analysis showed me how different my understanding of the motivations/thoughts/feelings of fictional characters--and probably also real people--is from most people's understanding.
I don't think Vernon is a narcissist, I think he's an adult who has no control over his life. He's middle aged and all he'll ever be is a school Vice principal that no one respects or likes. That's a tough identity to accept, but acceptance is necessary in order to grow. The kids are easy targets to project his shame and self worth onto.
I do want to point out that he's not actually a teacher, but the Vice Principal. So, perhaps he started as a teacher and after so many years was eventually promoted to Vice Principal. So, he likely is burnt out and just doesn't want to be around kids anymore. I felt this way towards the end of my customer service "career." I was just so burnt out that I did not want to speak to customers anymore. If they were friendly, I would do my best to listen. If they were entitled or angry, I would excuse myself politely and walk out of the room. (Leaving another coworker to deal with them because who cares?)
I always felt like Vernon really wanted to reach these kids and knew that he was not capable of doing it. The look on his face when Bender curses at him behind the door is truly heartbreaking. I believe Vernon was once someone who wanted to help kids and ended up being the opposite. He knows that he treats these kids bad and he knows that he's failed them.
I think Bender broke him, but if they had kept that scene in perhaps we could have seen an epiphany on his end. I don't think the director cared to give him that much depth though. He wanted the focus to be solely on the kids because he wanted it to speak to teens who really needed a voice at the time.
Vernon is one of my favorite underrated characters in this film.
I recently rewatched the movie and it dawned on me. Why is Vernon choosing to have them do detention for a full Saturday?
The answer might build a window into his personal life and may be one of the root causes for why the character lashed out easily and why he is so jaded and angry throughout the whole film.
Perhaps he is quite similar to Bender with his home life. Maybe he fights with his wife just as Bender fights with his parents. And he’s using this detention as an escape to a more ‘peaceful’ way to spend his Saturday.
He seems more drawn to Bender depsite the fact that he is at odds with him compared to the rest of the kids. Maybe this is because he subconsciously identifies with his behaviour.
And this theory further corroborates when he is willing to spend Saturdays running detentions with Bender for 8 more weeks when he clearly doesn’t like Bender.
Or perhaps he does not have any friends or much of a social life outside of the high school because his abrasive attitude is his natural demeanour. So rather than spend weekends doing nothing, he would rather run detentions as it gives him something to do.
This movie really makes you think deeply about the characters!
Carl next! But in order to accurately analyze him you'll need to see the deleted scenes. Also get a screen grab from the opening where Carl is pictured as most likely to succeed, or whatever the Shermer equivalent was.
The breakfast club was a story of stereotypes, when mixing with other different ppl then themselves, brought forth that Awakening growth n healing. The teens were afraid they were going to grow up to be like their Parents! I feel like vernon, can be suggested as an example of someone who missed out on his emotional growth as a kid that these kids got to have--n thats why hes so course, hard but also struggling on the inside. Hes stuck in his stereotype
Like the teens themselves. They had a stereotype, ppl saw their mask, but they were struggling on the inside. And throughout the move there was no true interaction vernon had with the kids where was an an exchange of meaningful dialogue Until* he read their paper. N as you said, he finally experienced that first step of self reflection, and awakening*
The reason why this movie was so well made, was the relatability and story telling, and it told a story of the kids struggle n growth n vernon was an antagonist… at a different pace we see him also stuck in a stereotype of a adult. At the end he was getting his breakthrough too. N the movie doesn’t say it--they Show it Happening.
Beautifully written movie n story telling
i see a burnt out man who probably at one point wanted to educate kids but had ZERO support. Maybe i'm just projecting, as a former teacher, but he just seems like a cliche of an 80s teacher. He reminds me of my old math teacher who WAS a burned out teacher. She was 2 years away from retirement and you could just tell that she had given up. She was cranky and snapped at us a lot. She was on edge because she was used to kids "fighting" her (by fighting i mean daring to question her instructions or genuinely questioning what was happening because they honestly didn't understand). Everything was a confrontation with her. She had so many kids over the years trying to find ways to cheat, or game her system that she had become jaded and would only half listen to you (as she assumed she had heard it all). I'll give her credit that she tried to find extra points for many of us to get us to pass our regents tests (because she didn't want us a second year either), but she wouldn't try different methods of doing things to meet us where we struggled. She taught me what NOT to be as a teacher. And he reminds me of her. Just someone who is so burned out by students fighting them that he has decided that they're all bad and the concept that he might need to adapt is beyond his grasp.
I work with "difficult" teenagers and I have some rules; do not threaten, but most especially if you can't/won't back the words up - if you are forced to make a "threat" you must follow up, but it should be an absolute last resort. Make clear rules upfront - youth are supposed to push at their boundaries but inconsistent boundaries confuse them (leading to anger, fear, apathy) In my experience youth actually react favorably if they know where they stand, there is consistency and their opinion is heard. The most important thing is to treat them as individuals worth of respect, connect with them, give them a chance to trust you and follow through.
Thank you for doing another breakfast club video I really enjoy your takes on all these characters
Great video. It's not easy to zero in on the nuance of such an un-nuanced character, but you teased out the clues that revealed his third dimension. It's not much of one - he's more of a bas-relief than a 3D sculpture - but you shone a light at just the right angle to see what depth was there.
Ah thanks!
The more i think about vernon, the more i notice that he seems to approach his job less like an educator and more like a prison warden. He demonstrates no real expectation that anything he does will affect these kids positively, he just seems to expect that he has to keep these kids for X number of hours a day for 4 years and survive them. Everything he does seems very focused on this power struggle, this need to assert and reassert his dominance, as if a deadly riot could break out the moment they see him as anything but the Big Bad. In that context, even Brian’s attempts at conversation could be threatening, because any whiff of connection threatens to erode his position of power. In that context, too, any petty discomfort he can force on them, no matter how meaningless, is an opportunity he cannot pass up, not because he needs the kids to learn anything or suffer, but because he needs them to know he can force them.
Seeing all of that makes me wonder what drove vernon to become a teacher in the first place, seeing has he so clearly hates it. Teaching takes a significant amount of education, and you have to put in a lot of effort to move up into a more exalted position like principal. Why did he put in so much effort to pursue teaching, public education teaching, no less, probably long after he ceased to believe in education?
Something that has interested me is that sometimes teachers spend more time around kids than other adults. They came from high school to university and then back into a school. Their emotional responses can seem quite childish (at least to other adults living with adults). The only emotional schema they have are childish emotional responses all day. Some have not had time to grow up themselves before being put into the job.
I will admit, I felt bad for him, when he spilt that sorry excuse as coffee on his lunch.
Ooh, "Vernon" also plays one of abusive dad's marine buddies in "The Great Santini", which could actually be his backstory, because he's the guy who wants to be Bull Meacham who he respects and idolizes, but just can't quite manage it!
"The Bull"; It's perfect!
i think also having to be the only teacher stuck coming in on the weekend to run saturday detention will wear you down and resent the students also. we don't know how he is as a normal teacher just as a disciplinary figure. i can only speak from my experiences but i had a favorite teacher in high school and he was very different between his normal class and running detention.
Enjoyed all these character analysis. Would be short, but interested in a box for Carl too.
The only person to be in detention more than Bender must be Vernon. Dude needs a weekend to himself.
Vernon checked out about the same time the kids did, he was down with the janitor being himself, while they were having the best talk of the film... simultaneously, brilliant.
Have you ever tried to help someone who didn’t want your help? One of the curses of getting older is that you think you have the answers but you can’t pass them on because people need to learn these lessons for themselves.
That's kind of one of the joys with counselling: you're not trying to provide answers at all, your trying to help them figure it out, they're the ones in the driving seat. It's kind of the bit that I find makes the work most fun, and often I find myself learning things too. Your comment is spot on but that's also kind of the shame: when we get old and stuck in our ways, thinking we know the answers, that our experiences always apply to the new kids, rather than letting curiosity take over and help, in a way, keep us young too
@@mylittlethoughttree And, people learn lessons at different times in their life. It's kind of the tragedy of the character. He's supposed to be the adult in the room but acts like a child because he has learned how to communicate. We're lucky to be living through more enlightened times. When I speak to Gen Z's I'm struck by how much more EQ they have than people my age and older.
Keep up the great work mate!
Doesn’t Carl have a school sports award on the school wall showing he was a highschool jock himself?
Thank you always giving me something enjoyable and thought provoking to watch. Since there is not much about Carl himself in the movie, it could be interesting to address him as a foil to the other characters, particularly to Vernon, if/when you do a video on him.
Carl has a job with significantly less clout than Vernon and puts significantly less effort into trying to intimidate the kids. He only defends himself when Bender makes a crack about Andrew wanting to pursue a career in the custodial arts; up to then, he is friendly and willing to play along. But, as much as Vernon tries, Carl is also the one who actually intimidates Bender (when he mentions looking through the kids' lockers) and seems to get his respect (judging by the smile he is wearing at the end of Carl's speech and, particularly, after Carl notices but does not attempt to fix the clock being fast). Carl seems to be the authority figure that sets boundaries (you will not belittle me) but also picks his battles (you want to get out of here 20 minutes early and found a way to do it? Fine. No skin off my nose.) and, therefore, actually gets through to the students. The way Allison smiles at Carl's comment about the kids being shitheads (which I could imagine someone who feels like a forced outcast amongst her peers might find fun to hear; it makes it clear that the popular people who rule the school aren't so perfect either) before seeming to make an effort to suppress it, and the fact he obviously has enough of a relationship with Brian to call him out by name and ask how he's doing (which, based on his facial expression, I feel like Brian both enjoys and is embarrassed by because of his current company) shows, I think, that Carl has the ability to breakthrough to the students in a way that Vernon has no chance of anymore, at least not anymore. I say anymore since, based on Carl's picture being shown as the school's Man of the Year for 1969, the movie coming out/being set in 1985, and Vernon stating that he has been a teacher for 22 years, there is a non-zero chance that Carl was a student back when Vernon was a newer and less cynical teacher. He could have seen the light in Vernon go out over the years, and that's why he is not afraid to call him out on it. Or maybe that's just Carl's character by nature: tolerate no bullshit, but don't bother taking offense to it either.
I have been looking through clips of the movie online trying to figure out how I got this impression, but I always thought Carl was the Bender of his time. I can't find any proof of that in the movie itself, though, to date. Being Man of the Year for his class, maybe he was an Andrew instead: the popular jock. Maybe even a little bit of a Brian: the class president and voted most likely to succeed. All wild conjecture, of course. But, being Man of the Year shows that he was likely popular and respected enough by his classmates to get the title. Now, he is just a lowly janitor and, as such, the object of ridicule in the same halls by equivalents of the same people that got him the title. Yet he does not seem to mind. Again, in contrast to Vernon and his resistance to how the world and his place in it has changed. Carl is zen.
These videos are great. You should probably analize "St. Elmo's Fire" and "About Last Night" characters after you're done with these. Just to keep It 80s themed lol.
"Don't mess with the bull or you get the horns"
I still use that one.
Class of '85 reporting in.
"Young versus old" is a metaphor for "The People versus the state." When I was in high school in the '90s, my principal really knew how to "put the 'pal' in 'princi-pal'," to quote Mr. Belding from 'Saved by the Bell'. So he and I got along just fine. The dean was my arch-nemesis. He was old-minded, stern, had sunken eyes surrounded by permanent shadow, and looked like a Nazi zombie in a suit and tie.
1:03 It's always hilarious when totalitarian conformist authority figures accuse the people they oppress of being "arrogant" when hubris and elitism are exactly what THEY embody.
2:08 See?! Self-absorbed, yet he accuses others of "arrogance" like a textbook collectivist hypocrite.
3:17 Apparently, he's either an old-school Catholic or a Freemason. Oh, did you think satanists came up with that gesture? Nah. They culturally expropriated it just like they did with the inverted cross and the inverted pentagram.
3:38 So that would make it sort of a Roman empire thing. Maybe. To the students, he would represent the tyranny of the Roman empire, symbolically speaking.
3:42 Dio is credited as being the first to use it in that context, but he got the idea from his Italian Catholic grandmother. He didn't care too much for the pomp and circumstance of the papist religion (neither did Bill "The Butcher" Cutting, btw), but he was an advocate of practical morality. So he was for morality but against militancy. Seems like a sensible perspective.
3:59 "Lacquer Head knows but one desiah! Lacquer Head sets his skull on fiah!"
6:27 Textbook hypocrite like all authoritarian conformists.
7:28 No, they think you're a tyrant.
8:14 Door stops. Schools typically have plenty of them. He's never had to handle the physical aspects of his workplace, so he doesn't immediately think of that like a teacher or janitor would. His mind is locked in its own ivory tower. It's a textbook top-down way of looking at the world that illustrates why people like that don't deserve respect. It's also a tendency that promotes kakistocracy (aka "idiocracy").
8:43 [cough, cough] Jordan Peterson [cough, cough]
9:08 Adjusted for stagflation, that's equivalent to $90,000 a year nowadays! Not bad, not bad.
9:22 That should make him sympathize more with the students if he genuinely feels like he's the one being oppressed. Instead, like a hypocrite, it makes him behave even more like an order-mongering conformist oppressor instead of embracing the liberating chaos of freedom and individuality.
10:48 My dad was like that. Used to talk down to me like that. He died in 1999 when I was 19. I honestly didn't care. I felt nothing. Neither morose grief nor morbid glee. Just nothing. Had some jerweeds who talked down to me like that in my former workplaces in my teens and 20s. Some of them are dead now. Again, I couldn't care less.
14:01 'The Experiment' (a remake of 'Das Experiment') also explores that concept.
22:12 Turning the system against itself.
Yes this kind of teachinv is still around, notably in male pe teachers
I wont say the name but the 16 year old was repeatedly shouted at with no joke, the phrase "you bring nothing to this school" in front of everybody because he cut a speaker wire during the fitness grand pacer test
Your analysis videos on these movies are my favorite, I love how you take the time to be so thorough, and it makes me love these characters even more and see them in a different light than before. Have you considered other John Hughes films, like Ferris Bueller’s Day Off? I would love to see your interpretation of Ferris and his friend Cameron, maybe about their contrasting personalities and their friendship, since Ferris is confident and Cameron is more of a worrier grump type; how the ending effects Cameron also. Just an idea ;)
It's so cool of this film to have that janitor character be someone Vernon apparently grew up with and still respects and treats as a friend (Carl's blackmail not withstanding). Even though John Hughes was from a relatively privileged background and focuses on that kind of community, he is one of the best filmmakers ever for respecting characters regardless of their economic class.
fantastic content. thank you, enjoyed.
I had a teacher like Vernon in grade 8. The guy would choose the three hottest girls every year, put them at the front in lounge chairs, and spoil them with attention and compliments. Everyone else he would treat like crap. He didn't like me because I'm a disabled female, therefore not sexy, and I made him look stupid a few times. Like, he took my eraser and then told me he'd give it back if I spelled the name of it, which was Staedtler. I did it promptly. You should have seen the look on his face, so pissed off. He had to give me the eraser back.
It’s weird - I just watched all your Breakfast Club vids in the last 5 days, and here’s another one!
Baron Von Stuben on Americans;
He was used to European soldiers who rarely questioned orders. Frustrated, von Steuben wrote in his personal diary the following entry. In Europe, you say to your soldier, “Do this” and he does it. But I am obliged to say to the American, “This is why you ought to do this,” and only then does he do it.
The kids haven't changed. We've been the same all along.
Ok what does that have anything to do with the movie?
So glad to see another one of these! I've really enjoyed your content
I think Bender see’s Vernon as someone he could potentially become one day and that inspires him (out of fear of being like Vernon) to have a more positive change
I guess I need to understand those that I don't like as well. 😎
"Clarence Beeks !?!?"
'Who the hell is Clarence Beeks?!'
I have this vision of Vernon enrolling in a police academy, washing out, and taking up teaching as a very distant second choice. Society as a whole would probably be better off with him as a teacher instead of a cop; can you imagine Vernon with a gun?
there's already quite a few "Vernon's" in LE - don't need another
Also, please do the Carl-video, even if it's short, I want to see it!
LOVE your videos! Please do one about Loki from the Avengers and Thor films next!
I waiting so long for this episode
I think it's interesting that the janitor says the kids haven't changed; Vernon has. That's both true and not true. There have always been rebellious kids. However, in the 50's and 60's, kids were taught to give respect automatically to authority figures, and this attitude carried into the 70's. However, with Vietnam and Watergate, prevailing societal attitudes changed and adults started questioning authority in a way they'd not before in the U.S., and this change spread to the kids so by the time the 80's rolled around, kids no longer automatically gave respect to adults simply because they were adults or authority figures. They questioned if those adults deserved their respect.
This of course means Vernon must now ask himself, Do I merit respect? That's a question he probably never had to ask himself at the beginning of his career. Kids did as they were told, except for the few rebellious ones, and obviously they were the ones who were in the wrong. By the 80's, though, it was no longer assumed that these kids were wrong to act out ... maybe they had the right idea. This was a central question in our society in the 80's.
Sadly, things escalated to school shootings in the 90's, leading us to try new approaches to discipline, but we really haven't figured out yet how to regain control of the situation. While I am for gun regulation, I do believe that even if all the guns were removed from the environment, we'd still have a discipline problem that would need to be resolved. Adults and kids alike no longer respect authority in the U.S., and it is leading to a fundamental breakdown in our society. If we do not find a way to shift attitudes back to authority being legitimized in some way - perhaps through meritocracy - we may well see the collapse of society in the U.S. altogether. I don't know if other countries are having this sort of identity crisis. I think the UK and other developed nations still retain a fundamental respect for authority on an ideological level that the U.S. no longer has. It's something that needs to be reintroduced here, or this country is in serious jeopardy long-term. We will tear ourselves down from within.
Sorry for the tangent. It's a great movie that captures the spirit of the 80's perfectly. And to answer your question, I think most parents in the 80's would have patted Vernon on the back for his tough approach and said he was doing the right thing; he would not have been suspended or even reprimanded for his behavior towards the kids. He certainly would be fired these days for behaving that way, though. Times have changed, and some of that is good. I do think authority should be questioned. However, if we find in questioning it that it is valid and good to have, we should let it do its job. The U.S. could learn a lot from other countries that have already figured out this balance, if only we'd take the time to study them.
Loved the video! Here's hoping you do one for the janitor too. :)
This gives me a lot to think about. I'd never considered ideas of authority in that way. It's only when I stop to consider it, I realise even I have zero respect for authority. I don't see any of it as unconditional and I don't trust the British government at all. That's not to say I rage against it, but I certainly don't respect it. I suppose it comes down to the loss of belief that they have the people's best interests at heart. Combine that with the loss of belief in Christianity or whatever religion, loss of national pride, and loss of a sense of community as places become more isolated...what are people left to believe in? In many ways that's a good thing as the questioning forces people to consider what they believe in on a deeper level...but the disadvantage is it leaves a lot of people a bit lost.
But then perhaps that does come down to authority genuinely not having best interests at heart? Either from people who don't care or too few good people that either get burned out by the sheer weight, or are too limited by the (sometimes good, sometimes bad) regulations around them? People do respect teachers that they felt cared about them. Kids tend to remember those teachers for the rest of their lives. They didn't demand respect but earned it by building trust and connection so that, even if you did question them over things, there was still a solid foundation. Perhaps that's what's lacking: we have the awareness to question authority but not the space for dialogue, not the sense we can have much affect, either on a national or local level? I don't know, I haven't thought about it much. I'm certainly also pro gun regulation, I'll say that much. Too often people make the argument that it wouldn't solve everything, as a reason to do nothing. Laws on speed limits don't stop all car crashes, or even stop all people speeding, but they still help reduce it
@@mylittlethoughttree So true; laws help. I really wasn't sure how things are in other countries when I wrote my comment, so I appreciate your reply.
I don't know what the answer is regarding authority to improve things, but I know the U.S. is hurting right now and we do need to find a new balance that works for us to rebuild our societal structure instead of killing each other. Thanks for your response!
This video got me thinking that maybe Vernon was the nerd or ‘brain’ when he was in high school, which is why he’s so mean to Brian and competitive with Bender. Whether he knows it or not, I’m sure Vernon is more angry at himself than he is any of these kids.
Nope. He was more than likely a Bender. Definitely.
YOURE BACK
I like to think Vernon was something of a rebel himself. Maybe not to such extents as Bender, but, maybe he was a little Rock n Roller back in the day, and over time became this arse of a teacher. Carl says he changed. I mean, he is - admittedly - quite fashionable and somewhaz vain, like he tried to keep up but got lost in the shuffle. Also, the "hard-ass" attitude is also somewhat apparent in Bender, that 'not-backing-down,' mentality. Interesting paralell. (Just my observation and how i interpret it)
It really bugs me that we never really find out what vernon did the week after. The students became aware of their problems but they can't really help themselves. Most of them are suffering at home due to their parents destroying their mental health, and have no one to talk to. They spend most of their time at school were their problems are indirectly shown to the teachers, but they either don't want to see it (vernon leaving the room) or don't have the capacity to deal with it. They just put the students in boxes (topic of the movie i know) and reinforcing the trauma they are dealing with at home. John has a violent father and vernon wants to fight him, allyson is ignored at home and teachers dont even know her name etc.. Parents are the first bullies, and the teachers are the second one (sadly it's still like this, techers would actually come up to me like "oh you again didn't talk at all" or "wow she can say more than one sentence"). Schools should instead be more equipped to help such students, they spend most of their time there, the problems are obvious but ignored (benders pin on his glove literally says "not saved"). The children are aware of themselves, and the essay quite literally feels like "we are more than your perception of us, please look behind your boxes and help us". I hope some techers saw this movie and actually tried to understand their students.
(Kinda useless comment ik, basically just the plot and content from this video. But thank you for making these analysis 😊)
The idea that "nothing ever changes" can be just as wrong as saying "kids these days". Long-term trends are a thing, and so people over time can consistently draw the same conclusion. And, sometimes things *do* change; sometimes similar-looking things are fundamentally different.
I disliked all of the kids in detention, so I rooted for Vernon. Plus he had the best hair
Another neat video idea...
You're wrong about something and I think it's important. Vernon isn't a simple teacher, he's the vice principal which is a job often with more responsibility than the actual Principal.
Just from the standpoint of work, he's stuck at work on a Saturday and getting only one day off. The man is likely really burnt out.
He and Carl are about the same age and act like they've known each other for a long time. Look at Carl we see on the wall he was voted "Man of the Year" in 1969(and had a full head of hair). Everyone loves the janitor, they clean up, never punish anyone, and are normally pretty chill.
Now Vernon, I bet Vernon loved his job, was the cool fun teacher and the kids loved him... And then they "promoted" him. Now he's stuck being the person to dish out punishments and all the kids hate him. The first set of kids would have still known him as fun and wouldn't hate him too much but after the first 3-4 years none of them know the fun him.
It would feel like the kids had changed, he uses "cool" lines to recapture that but it fails.
His assignment wasn't bad and was certainly better than just sitting there. I don't think he likes being the one that has to deal out punishments and isn't uncomfortable with it.
That discomfort makes him feel like he can't back down or the whole thing will blow up in his face, and what's more he can't afford to quit the job and take a pay cut because of his house payments leaving him to feel trapped.
Oh, I don't know how old you are or what your school experiance would be with the 80s but the being locked in the closet wasn't that uncommon.My school when I was 6-8 even had a "timeout room" for that, and it was still perfectly legal to use corporal punishment in schools.
Venomous Vernon or Vicious Vernon is the name I imagine these kids give him
Please do a video on Carl!
I would Love to see a breakfast club movie 30 years later. Where did they end up? I’m pretty confident however the right producer would never be able to do it Justice. Hard to say I guess unless someone tries it.
I wouldn’t. The movie is about those characters on that one day in their lives.
Not every movie needs to start at expanded universe.
@@tanizaki - The power of good fiction is that makes you want to _see_ an expanded universe.
@@ShinyAvalon no. There’s no expanded universe for the Count of Monte Cristo. There’s no expanded universe for Don Quixote.
Those who crave expanded universes are mid-wits who lack imagination and the ability to deal with the unknown and ambiguity. You’re probably disappointed that Solo did not reveal how Han Solo got the red stripe on his pants. Maybe that can be in the next prequel!
@@tanizaki - You're not getting it. Good fiction uses small details to suggest a greater world beyond the surface of a story - what we call "depth" or "subtext." We pick up that depth subconsciously, like hearing echoes resonate from spaces beyond what we see. People who become curious about those deeper spaces are just responding to the hints from those echoes. They're evidence that a story is really, really good.
@@ShinyAvalon I get it just fine. Being curious about Captain Ahab’s past is one thing. Asking for a prequel called Ahab that shows him losing his leg is idiocy and shows a lack of imagination.
Few consoomers understand this.
Honestly, I never really saw Vernon (or Carl) as a character. He always came across as a set piece more than a person that's supposed to be a fully fleshed out character. He's the authority that represents the school, which is the stand-in for society in this movie. Carl was the working class and Vernon was the ruling class. One could identify with the kids and interact with them without being cruel, while the other sat around bored all day with nothing better to do than harass the teenagers in the library. He's Judge Dredd without the gore and he really shows it when he goes after Bender, adding months of incarceration just for speaking.
I would enjoy a video on Carl
Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This character is textbook overt narcissist. Narcs are 2 dimensional, BTW. Ben is a classic scapegoat. The actor that plays the teacher frakking nailed the narc squint. Shame is both a loathing to feel for a narc and a tool against others. Good that you mentioned shame, as it is usually at the root of that personality type.
The Breakfast Club is a film I never really respected until now. It was a perfect depiction of the punishment driven society we've built for ourselves. I think we are just now starting to realise that a support driven society is the one that allows everyone to grow.
Vernon is the perfect example of a man who has been institutionalized. The people business isn't so easy. Don't ask me how I know.
My middle school principal acted exactly like Vernon. Turns out his child turned out to be trans and he did not handle it well.
I interpreted Vernon's behaviour as dismissive. He wants to keep the kids in their assigned roles and doesn't bother giving kids like bender a chance to be someone else. For instance he always believes bender will be a criminal and chooses to ignore his homelife.
Vernon McMahon
Yay!!!
I think Vernon needs a a two day weekend to play some golf and maybe have a date night with his wife. Why does this guy have to spend every Saturday at his school? No wonder he’s losing his mind. Maybe the point of him spending the next 2 months with Bender just shows that he’s as trapped as Bender. Maybe more so. Bender is young and has time to escape the system that he’s stuck in.
I want janitor
Why is it EMPATHY and not SYMPATHY. ??
I don't understand
The two have different meanings, empathy is more about understanding how someone feels, stepping into their shoes. Sympathy is more about feeling sorry for them...which sometimes doesn't mean actually trying to understand. Sometimes sympathy can mean excusing things, as well. There's a well known video by Brene Brown about empathy Vs sympathy. It's short and simple and easy to find on youtube
OR was he the tyrant they needed, to rebel against?
So there are a couple of things about Vernon, that you wouldn't understand unless you grew up in Middle America, given his age and the fact its 1985, there is a very high likely hood he was drafted, or enlisted to avoid being drafted, the one big tell is the liter and a half container of black coffee, while Americans in general would drink coffee, mainlining coffee all day was a sign of previous military experience. He also makes a four bells reference in the deleted scenes which guarentees he had been in the Navy.
Another minor detail is the Chicago White Sox hat in his office(the janitor is wearing a White Sox T-shirt under his overalls), while the School the movie was filmed in, is in the North Suburbs, while the White Sox are situated in South Chicago, while the Chicago Cubs are in North Chicago. It does establish that Vernon is from the Chicago area(Americans in this time period did not change franchise loyalty in baseball) and his accent is more Southern Chicago(Irish) while the kids(Molly Ringwald in particular) speaks a very North Suburb accent common with Jewish girls of the time(Niles North was about half jewish in this time, so women in this area picked up the accent even when their parents speak the older chicago accent that Vernon speaks).
So he(Vernon) is from roughly the same background, though due to his age he probably grew up in the middle class neighborhoods of Chicago proper, while the kids are suburbanites, and three of the five come from upper middle class(particularly Allison and Claire, while Bender and Andrew appear to come from the Farming community that existed before the suburbs ate the farmlands(The truck Andrew's father drives all but typecasts him)).
In the deleted scenes he is struggling with a Cigarette vending machine(these would disapear in the public in America by 1995 entirely) which does suggest that in adition to having his caffiene fix, he is not getting his nicotene either, which is probably why his blow up toward the end of the movie happens.
I think Vernon does at least have a wife. Who else would make that terrible coffee? 😂
I'll tell you, Vernon would make a terrible world leader or POTUS. (I know I am getting political here, but still). If he were to run for POTUS, he would seem more like a dictator/authoritarian leader than a president.
If you think Vernon is interesting I’d be interested in your thoughts on the teacher character of Southgate on the 1990s Australian teen series ‘Heartbreak High’
Fantastic video!! Thank you!!