Memes aside I'd imagine this more as a result of you simply learning to stop magic to help control your own wild magic, even down to having paladin spells being you looking to divine sources for help and, as for the athletics maybe you liked wrestling as a kid.
Wild Magic was surprising, yes, but the real surprise? Treantmonk's melodious baritone singing "I hate mages, I hate mages, meow meow meow!" Not sure what to believe anymore...
You mentioned magical guidance as a way to help ensure grapple checks. But it’s also really useful for counterspell; if you fail your spell casting ability check you can spend a sorcery point to reroll it.
In a world where common felines are pulled from their homes to supply bodies for possessing familiar spirits, he thirsts for vengeance. When the Goddess Bastet grants him a form capable of taking revenge on casters everywhere, he becomes ...Bad Kitty! Coming this Summer from Troma Entertainment.
I think this is one of the best builds you've ever made, not necessarily in terms of being the most optimized, but it does what it sets out to do incredibly well, and I always love builds that combine some lesser used subclasses and abilities.
I mean... there aren’t very many good ones to choose from. Basically just Twinned, Quickened, Subtle, and then maybe Heightened late game, or maybe Extended for buffs.
@@M0ebius Well, it depends also on the subclass of Sorcerer. Trasmuted spell (Lightning) is vital for my Storm Sorcerer to cast Lightning ball and enjoy the Heart of Storm features (lightning all around). Seeking spell is extremely powerful in conjunction with Touch and Suck spells (Inflict Wounds and Contagion, for Divine Soul), especially if you combine it with Distant Spell. Even if by RAW it does not work, I'm sure your DM would allow Distant Spell to interact with Counterspell, Featherfall, Soulcage, Hellish Rebuke (I do not know if I forgot any other one). They are the only weird spells in all D&D that have a range specified inside the "Casting time" box, which matches the "Range" in the spell, but instead of saying "within Range", they specify "Within 60 feet". So they were not written thinking it in combination with the Distant Metamagic, that only affects the Range, but not the Casting Time. So, as per the rules now, you could cast a Distant Counterspell (120 feet), but only when you can see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell. It has been asked for several years to rewrite Counterspell (& the others) in order to clarify how they would interact with the Distant Metamagic as was intended originally, IMHO.
@@kazebaret Unfortunately my table runs RAW. Or at least as close to RAW as we can without getting into stupid territory. So metamagics do pretty much what they say they do. Also Contagion is pretty much useless IMO post-errata (or at least not worth a precious spells known pick), and Inflict Wound to me is not generally a great spell (I just dip Hexblade and run Curse + Magic Missile for auto-hit dmg). That said, yeah the new metamagic options definitely have their uses for specific builds. I’m just speaking on general terms.
@@M0ebius My bad, I did no realize they took away the "poison condition" in Contagion. Yeah, my table is pretty RAW as well, even if there are some cases where the RAW and RAI clash so much, like with Distant spell, where we prefer to keep with the RAI. I agree dipping in hexblade is very powerful, but we do not use the multiclass rule, unless there is reason for it during the adventure.
One homebrew element we adopted years ago....Wild Magic surge is based on the level of the spell. Cast a 2nd level spell? It's a 2 or lower on the D20, Level 9 spell? Roll a 9 or lower. The sorcerer players we've had rolled every time they used a levelled spell, had a separate colored dice used for their surge for expediency, and its been wholly satisfying as a player and a DM to implement :)
To slay a mage, you have to BECOME the mage... I can imagine Bad Kitty's party ending up in some sorta time loop where Bad Kitty's ended up in the past fighting another mage, and that's the fight that caused Bad Kitty to gain their magical powers to begin with.
While I understand why you made each decision, it really puts an exclamation point on the power of EFFECTIVE teamwork. Being able to split the grapple & melee features, and the anti-mage features would be easier, and harder to shut down. Having the whole package in a single build is a bit awkward.
Would love a Monk subclass that specialized in mage hunting. Maybe have a special variant of Deflect Missile that affects ranged spell attacks, and can redirect the spell if the damage is fully negated. Maybe have a unique feature that allows the Monk to attack the Spell Slots of casters, and gives a bonus amount of temporary hit points based on the level drained + Monk Level + Wisdom Mod.
Very unique build! I love to see a Tabaxi used and the strategy guide was brilliant. It is a little unfortunate that the Silence, grapple strategy doesn’t come on line earlier but this was a really tough challenge.
I imagine it this way...spends an hour or two watching and rewatching videos, makes character, runs away from mage to cast silence, rolls a wild magic surge of 41-42, takes self out of battle as a potted plant.
My guess was sorcerer as the base. He mentioned Metamagic in his previous vid but I wasn't expecting the subclass he selected, nor the multi-classing. I recall my own ability in one campaign to screw with casters when using Subtle spells. "Nuh uh... I did not cast Charm person on you! All I did was ask Reeeaaal nicely" *wink*
You could do this with a wizard. If grappling+slaying one mage/LR, you only need 2 instances of subtle spell tops, so you can do that with metamagic adept.
@@MsNathanv You still need to be able to use quickened spell though, in order to cast silence and grapple on the same turn. If you only have metamagic adept, you can either subtle spell or quickened spell, not both
i called wild magic for the bonus to counterspelling, but i didn't even think about using tides of chaos for grapple checks as well. that's very clever. anyway it's really neat to see how all the pieces of this build came together!
I thought about this. I think the issue with relying on the sentinel feat to keep the mage in the silence is that you need to hit their AC. If a mage is optimized, it can easily have an 18-20 AC before shield. Add a shield to that and landing that sentinel hit to keep them still becomes pretty unlikely.
@@adamkaris fair enough, no shield. So now you are relying on a single attack roll against an 18-20 AC. Coin flip at best and probably a bit worse than that until higher levels.
@@ZacharyKatzStein you could use darkness instead and have advantage on all your attacks thanks to blind fighting... Vision is still an important part of spellcasting.
This is my favorite D&D channel. I love your builds and analysis. That said, this build is a dud for me, because I think it fails to deliver on concept. It is extremely effective at shutting down a single mage, but does so by going basically full spellcaster, making it more of a “wizard duel” specialist than mage slayer. To me, a mage hunter is a martial/martial leaning Gish who has a few special abilities geared towards shutting down mages. Shadow monk is not very effective, but it does deliver on the concept. Something like yuanti Hexblade 5, paladin x (watcher probably) is were I would start thinking about optimizing this concept. You get extra attack and counterspell/dispell magic at level 5, and can feel like a martial character right from level 1 with hex weapon+scag cantrips. As you level you will get the paladin auras, and can go supernova doubling up with eldritch+divine smites. It doesn’t have the total shutdown tactic of this build, but it delivers on concept right from level 1, and will do fantastic dpr/nova for the 99% of times you aren’t fighting an endgame boss mage.
Really cool and interesting build greatly fitting the concept! The only thing that sours my desire to play something like that is that... eventually you're gonna go up against the Big Bads who have Legendary Resistances, Actions, Layer Actions and so on. So when your ability to be the Mage Slayer is needed the most the Villain can just choose to succeed that saving throw or make the floor shake so that you fall on your ass and lose the grapple or something else just because. It would really stink to be this badass Slayer of Mages in the midgame only to go splat ineffectively by the time the Big Boss arrives.
Since we're talking about fighting NPC casters with better spell selection wouldn't a spellcaster with hypnotic pattern & counterspell wreck Bad Kitty most of the time given his atrocious WIS save and the fact that neither has verbal components?
If you want to use your wild magic surge, just use tides of chaos and ask your DM to make you roll on the wild magic surge table on your next spell. With a coperative DM you should be surging all over the place.
Agreed. I never understood the argument that the surges don't come up. There are rules for causing them to come up all the time that most people don't seem to pay attention to.
34:35 Wouldn't having a wall in the way that would obstruct vision also block the silence due to the PHB spellcasting rules in the section titled "A Clear Path to the Target"?
I had a very similar build based on your ideas, but what is your opinion on clockwork soul as a subclass? You can swap out the extra spells known to be any abjuration (or transmutation spell) a warlock, wizard, or sorcerer could cast. So you can pick up counterspell, dispell magic, shield, etc. for "free". Plus, "Magical Guidance" at level 5 lets you reroll any failed ability check for a sorcerer point, be it a grapple check or a counterspell check.
I think the 2nd level spell "Maximilians earthen grasp" is good also. STR save vs restrained condition is harder than Athletics or acrobatics to escape. Also there are a few ways to make the target have disadvantage (Arcane tricker feature, eldritch knight feature, or metamagic). I think using this as opposed to grapple would make the build more focused maybe? Just ditch the grappling totally.
Problem is both Earthen Grasp and Silence are concentration spells so you can't use them together, the reason you want Restrained + Silenced is so that the Mage can't teleport out of it, if you used Earthen Grasp you won't have Silence so the Mage can just Misty Step away from it.
Would you be able to use cutting words in Silence with the telepathic feat? I think at the very least you'd find a lot of DMs who would rule in your favor.
5:41 initial thoughts would be to use quick toss to throw a net as a bonus action 16:17 seeming you didn't go net here. A bit surprised to be honest 22:17 shocking grasp is verbal, but with subtle spell you could do this in the area of silence while grappling to block absorb elements, a reaction spell with no verbal components. Additionally shield, but this is also blocked by silence as its V/S 34:43 if only this was a wisdom build, then you could get away with observant just to read lips in silence. 38:56 if the mage is using a spellcasting focus instead of component pouch, then fear could be really good as the mage would drop their focus making them incapable of casting many material components spells 47:18 the enhanced movement was a very interesting solution to the counterspell problem, I would have thought that using your reaction for a subtle counterspell would work but obviously much more expensive than just being a fast boi
Nice build! I like the strategy going in. I might consider Divine Soul over Wild Magic to sacrifice some of the Grappling benefits (of which you stack quite many, each gaining lower marginal value as the previous layer ramps up the % of a successful Grapple, such that additional stacked layers affect an ever smaller miss %) to get Counterspell + Silence in the same Class Spell List, to bring everything online much faster and access higher level spells much more quickly (plus more Sorcery Points and such, not to mention the entire Cleric Spell List). Almost as effective vs. mages (and quicker to come online), while having IMO much better performance vs. non-mages.
And if you can get a lucky feat in there, that would help with a more reliable form of advantage perhaps. You do miss the bard features of course. I was thinking of Divine Soul right away for the "Favored of the Gods" ability A divine bad kitty on a mission from god to slay mages?
@@kazebaret I saw from Treantmonk and also read into it myself, but the Divine Soul ability doesn't work, because "Favored by the Gods' doesn't work on ability checks. Grapple is an ability check
@@Hendori3 Yes I know, that's why I wrote "saving throw". "Favored of the Gods" is not useful for the grappling, but when an enemy mage casts a spell on you.
Rogue/Sorc - use Subtle Spell along with Illusion magic like Silence and Invisibility to get close to mage's under stealth. Grab Abjuration and Conjuration spells along with Twinned and Quickened Spell to deal with their magic (Dispel Magic, Counterspell, etc.) and then Sneak Attack for the kill.
More than a 100 rounds of combat after our monk got stunning strike and it worked only twice, both because of bend luck. It's there when we really need it.
I would rule for unsettling words that it wouldn’t work in a silence spell. I say that cause it states “you can spin your words laced with magic” How can you talk if you are in silence?
What my main DM does for Wild Magic (WM) is for every sorcerer spell you cast that does not trigger WM, you increase the activation range by one. Once you trigger the ability, it resets back one. For example, sorcerer casts a spell, rolls a 17 on the die and does not get a 1 to activate WM. On the 2nd turn, they roll a 12 and does not get a 1 or 2. On the next turn, they roll a 2 which is would trigger WM. On the 4th turn they roll a 2, which is not a 1 to trigger WM.
Would be interested in seeing how acrobatic you would have to get in multiclassing and drawing from usually banned book sources to make a mage slayer that was actually a martial (like most mage slayers that people like to build) while still avoiding using a monk... ;p
At 32:00 you say your athletics check to grapple is only a +5, but wouldn't it be +7 because of +1 from your strength and +3 proficiency doubled is a +6 adding up to +7?
Holy shit, I have a sorc/bard build I have been working on that is very similar to this. The support and utility this build brings makes it awesome even when not fighting casters.
Most DM's I know that would go to the trouble of making a mage boss would already be giving it subtle spell to deal with the counterspell problem. How does this build fare as a mage hunter when things go wrong?
Very cool take on the mage slayer idea. I'm personally a fan of the traditional ancients hexadin with yuan ti or satyr thrown in for good measure, but new creative options are always good =).
For my own Mage Killer, I drew inspiration from Fate/Zero’s Emiya Kiritsugu. Criteria: Excellent counters towards magic reliant opponents Amazing mobility options Guns akimbo with a Calico submachine gun and a Thompson single shot (or whatever equavalent depending on whether or not the DM has firearms on their campaign). Stats: Dex 15 Int 15 Con 12 Wis 12 Cha 8 Str 8 Race Variant Human Mage Slayer feat +1 Dex and Int Free skill: Arcana Urban Bounty Hunter - Stealth, Insight, Thieves’ Tools, Undercommon, Ear to the Ground 11 lvls Rogue: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Perception, Investigation Expertise - Arcana, Investigation, Perception, Insight Sneak Attack 6d6 Cunning Action Mage Hand Legerdemain (Arcane Trickster) Steady Aim +2 Dex Uncanny Dodge Evasion +2 Dex Magical Ambush (Arcane Trickster) Sharpshooter Reliable Talent 4 lvls Artificer: Magical Tinkering Infusions - Repeating Shot, Sending Stones, Enhanced Weapon, Goggles of Night Eldritch Cannon - Force Ballista (Artillerist) +2 Int 5 lvls Wizard: Arcane Recovery Tactical Wit, Arcane Deflection (School of War Magic) +2 Int Spells (not all of them since I don’t want to faff about): Mage Hand Message Spare the Dying True Strike (which is actually pretty good on a Rogue considering the conditions needed for Sneak Attack) Green Flame Blade Firebolt Booming Blade Cure Wounds Jump Longstrider Shield Darkvision Arcane Weapon Magic Weapon Misty Step Blink Blur Haste Counterspell Dispel Magic Fireball If I rolled these stats instead of using Point Buy, chances are I would’ve taken Resilient for Con saves, Fighting Initiate for Archery, War Caster, Alert, Observant, Keen Mind and/or Tough.
I was the guy in the other Mage Hunter video who advocated the Shadow Monk as a *DECENT* Mage Slayer. While I argued there that a Shadow Monk was nowhere near as bad as you'd observed (you had some poor logic in some observations, and had forgotten about some features in others). But, I like this build because, unlike the Shadow Monk, you also have access to spells for utility, more skills, and a more effective grapple check. Also, you have Dispel Magic and Counterspell, which I like. Well done! My only argument is that not all mages will fit all of the qualities of the "Our Prey" section, so for the most part you are preparing for an unlikelihood happening. I would argue that 90% of the mages you go up against will not be like Vecna or Lord Soth. This is why I also appreciate how your build fits in other combat and roleplay scenarios, as well. Here is my slightly-not-as-good Shadow Monk build: Firbolg (+2 Wisdom, +1 Strength). Assuming a standard array, I would give them 15 Strength, 14 Wisdom, and 13 Dexterity. I would spend my first ASI on Sentinel and the rest on STR and then WIS, allowing me to have 20 STR and 20 WIS by level 19. I also chose Athletics and Stealth as my proficiencies. This allows me to have great grappling checks while at the same time having a 19 Ki Save DC, which is as high a DC as one can have in D&D. Optionally, you can also use an ASI to get the Alert feat for better initiative. So, imagine this: The strategy can be used as early as level 5 and scales well into the latter stages of play. First turn, I rely on my Dexterity to get a higher initiative than the caster. This would be aided with the Alert feat. For my full action, I cast Silence on the caster. As a bonus action, I cast Hidden Step to turn invisible and gap-close as much as I can to the caster. I'm able to use Silence and Hidden Step in one turn because Hidden Step is a spell-like ability and does not count as a spell. You mention here that it would be easier indoors to cast Silence because of the nooks and crannies of something like a dungeon. Your words, not mine. Outside, I'd have to be at least 10th level to cast Silence without being Counterspelled before gap-closing with Hidden Step in the same turn. If I can't get close enough to Hidden Step, I'd use Shadow Step or Step of the Wind to gap-close. If I was close enough to the caster when the fight began, then I'm doing Flurry of Blows, with each blow doing a Stunning Strike. On the caster's turn, they can't move because I have advantage on my opportunity attack (if I used Hidden Step as a Bonus Action) and Sentinel. I can even try to stun them with Stunning Strike, but I don't need it to keep them in the zone of Silence. On my next turn, I can do any combination of Stuns and/or Grapples as my Attack action and then use Flurry of Blows on my Bonus Action to get in as much stuns as I can to stun-lock or grapple-lock the caster every turn. At the very least, the Silence + Sentinel + Hidden Step/Shadow Step mobility would do very well as a way to keep Silence on the caster without needing to do much on the monk's full action. This build doesn't have as many features to make my grapple hit 100% of the time like your build does, but as long as I have enough ki points, I can repeat the strategy until I'm able to get one stun and/or grapple in.
Really cool concept! Out of curiosity, for locking down enemy mages, did you consider Sentinel? I feel like there is a lot less commitment/investment than going into the grapple space. You could go Variant Human Warlock 5 and be pretty well online (Fathomless - snags Silence, Counterspell, Sentinel, and Metamagic Adept). The commitment to grapple is heavy, and is only usable on Large or smaller casters. You could come online a little later and go Satyr/Yuan-ti Pureblood and be a little better in fights with more than one caster as well. Minor Illusion to block enemy spellcaster's vision of you, cast silence (quickened) on them free, and then walk up to them in melee - if they try to escape Sentinel bash em.
I think you could make something work with a ranger / fighter multi class going gloom stalker and rune knight. The gloom stalker gets bonuses to initiative and the rune knight on a hit can as a free action use the fire rune to restrain the target, action surge and cast silence then Bobs your uncle
I would have expected Divine Soul Sorcerer... doesnt that also give a +2d4 iirc that could be used for Grappling? And it would allow picking silence at level 3, no MC necessary.
@@MrABK108 my guess would be that the owl’s initiative modifier wouldn’t be the greatest, and it certainly wouldn’t be better than yours, so the chances of it going before you to be able to deliver the help action seem small to say the least.
@@SilverKarlov oh, it must be one of those few tiny HR i have always practiced. It just makes it easy to handle when the pets share the turn with the owner.
Recently I played a optimized Bowser, who was a wild magic grappler turtle with green flame blade, subtle, quickened and instead of fay touched skill expert for the expertise. The first enemy was my real-life friend, the storm sorcerer, which I grappled and held his mouth, while burning him little bit. Next time I will consider silence!
44:20 wait, how do you have a +13 initiative? 2 from dex, +5 alert (7), +4 proficiency (11). Jack of All Trades should no longer apply as it only applies to skills don't already include your PB.
Am I missing something? 31:52 You moved 90 feet. How? Tabaxi move at 30, add 10 for longstrider to make 40, and go 40 twice because of the tabaxi stride. Makes 80. Where is the other 10 coming from?
Great video, only thing I would have prioritized over other ASI would have been resilent WIS because having proficency in both wis and con for when something goes wrong and the mages actually manage to cast a big save and suck is important. Sure paladin is great but comes online late and would stack with proficency
Couldn't you take alert at lvl 4 and pick up misty step and the Cha boost later? A static +5 on initiative is better than a 1d8 and you can't be surprised. Maybe you can't pick those up later, I'll have to check the rest of the build. But trying to get those wildmount spells in a non-wildmount campaign is a Herculean task. You'd have to be a Eloquence bard to make that persuasion check.
I'd usually prefer Lucky to Alert. The effective bonus is similar, but Lucky is more flexible, and it's bonus is biased toward where we need it: when we roll low. Although Alert does have a nice side-effect interaction with Blind Fighting, and if building this as an ambusher via Stealth expertise, I might prefer Alert anyways.
I’ve tried a build similar to this. It works great, so long as the enemy spell caster isn’t also a sorcerer 😂😅😭 I try to take advantage of being 65ft away, and boom, distance still counterspell 😭 A well timed distant spell is sometimes just as effective as a subtle spell!
Given that Fey Wanderer is available why wouldn’t you use that subclass within this build for the bonus to the counterspell ability of the mage Hunter?
For the Sorcerer Tides of Chaos ability, There is no role of 1 required. The DM decides after you cast a Sorcerer spell if s/he wants you to roll on the Wild Magic Surge table. Once you make that roll you regain the Tides of Chaos ability. It is this reliance on a DM which is the reason I have only played a Wild Sorcerer once. The DM was a a$$ and had me roll on every non-cantrip sorcerer spell I rolled except when I wanted to roll, usually in desperation. . .
needing to roll every time you cast is part of the core class, you need to roll a 1 to surge though so only 5% chance how it is supposed to work is that you use tides of chaos to grant yourself advantage, then you cast a spell and automatically surge, then get tides of chaos back so basically permanent advantage but risk rolling on the surge table
Great build, looks like fun stuff. Only issue I can see would be the low attack bonus for being able to hit. Thoughts on mixing in a level of Hexblade in place of the 20 charisma? You have a lot of ways to hinder the ability for a target to make a saving throw with multiple means, I'm curious if the +1 to checks and save DC at level 20 is that much better then another +2 to hit as early as level 10 possibly.
I know this is an older video, but I'm thinking of trying a similar build in an upcoming campaign. Would you say a 1 level hexblade dip (I know, very annoying) would be worth it early on? Frees up sorcerer spells since you get shield, and helps with AC early on with medium armor, and makes melee attacking later land much more often by making our attacks SAD for our charisma. Seems to me like it'd be worth grabbing, but maybe I'm wrong!
Just occurred to me that a fairly standard sorcadin would check most of these boxes given its burst damage, strong saves, and access to sorcerer spells. That would probably take 9 levels to fully come online, but it's not like paladins are *bad* at killing anything, spellcasters included, up until that point. That said, I'm not surprised that you ended up with a multiclass build. It's difficult to find a single-classed character who checks all of the boxes, particularly if one of the boxes includes saving throws. Lots of characters who, from a thematic perspective, arguably *should* be good at killing spellcasters, such as Assassin rogues or Way of Shadow monks, check some of the boxes but are simply lacking in too many others.
I like some of the Earthen Grasp ideas but that only deals with the movement and without Silence does not do much to hinder a Mage. So would require a second caster and then we are dealing with Mage Slayers not a Mage Slayer. So this character build has the ability to solo Mage Slay which is an important distinction.
Thought this would be a full caster with minor modifications (which also hits all the prerequisites). Good to see that we have something more original, always nice to be proven wrong. Since this is a grappling build I feel like there’s some missed Cat Luchador angle?
planning on taking down Halister- silence and shove/ grapple are the main plan- pushing him into a anti magic field. and of course, winning initiative.
Best thing is, if you go all the way to Level 20, you could get to 5th level Bard so Unsettling Words becomes even better. Plus, I think I'd rather put that 8th level in Sorcerer rather than Paladin just for that extra sorcery point so you can use your resources slightly more often before having to replenish with spell slots. But still, this is a good build, no doubt.
Quick correction (doesn't change the build): Counterspell does not have a verbal component.
Thank you for the correction.
What if the enemy mage has Distant Metamagic? Can the speed account for the extra travel distance?
According to my youtube page Treantmonk journeyed from 2 weeks in the past to deliver this correction
@@ariashkenazi9211 he likely filmed this 2 weeks ago
@@UEGDonkey madness, I blame time magic
If you are using the silence spell you probably want to switch out booming blade as anyone in silence is immune to thunder damage.
What would you recommend for the replacement? Just GreenFlame? or something else entirely?
Green flame blade would be a good sub.
Remember the housecat that killed low level mages in old D&D? This is him now.
exactly the humor I noticed... :P
Treantmonk: For the most part, I'm going to be casting spells.
Obi-wan: You have become what you swore to destroy!
Uncle: Magic must defeat magic!
Memes aside I'd imagine this more as a result of you simply learning to stop magic to help control your own wild magic, even down to having paladin spells being you looking to divine sources for help and, as for the athletics maybe you liked wrestling as a kid.
Wild Magic was surprising, yes, but the real surprise? Treantmonk's melodious baritone singing "I hate mages, I hate mages, meow meow meow!" Not sure what to believe anymore...
You mentioned magical guidance as a way to help ensure grapple checks. But it’s also really useful for counterspell; if you fail your spell casting ability check you can spend a sorcery point to reroll it.
In a world where common felines are pulled from their homes to supply bodies for possessing familiar spirits, he thirsts for vengeance. When the Goddess Bastet grants him a form capable of taking revenge on casters everywhere, he becomes ...Bad Kitty! Coming this Summer from Troma Entertainment.
That is an absolutely horrific lore explanation for how find familiar works...10 out of 10, will steal next time I want to traumatize my players
Chris sounded so disappointed when he admitted to using Tabaxi for this build. XD
As well he should.
Haha furry
I think this is one of the best builds you've ever made, not necessarily in terms of being the most optimized, but it does what it sets out to do incredibly well, and I always love builds that combine some lesser used subclasses and abilities.
subtle spell is quickly becomming my favorit meta magic.
Mine too.
I mean... there aren’t very many good ones to choose from. Basically just Twinned, Quickened, Subtle, and then maybe Heightened late game, or maybe Extended for buffs.
@@M0ebius Well, it depends also on the subclass of Sorcerer. Trasmuted spell (Lightning) is vital for my Storm Sorcerer to cast Lightning ball and enjoy the Heart of Storm features (lightning all around). Seeking spell is extremely powerful in conjunction with Touch and Suck spells (Inflict Wounds and Contagion, for Divine Soul), especially if you combine it with Distant Spell. Even if by RAW it does not work, I'm sure your DM would allow Distant Spell to interact with Counterspell, Featherfall, Soulcage, Hellish Rebuke (I do not know if I forgot any other one). They are the only weird spells in all D&D that have a range specified inside the "Casting time" box, which matches the "Range" in the spell, but instead of saying "within Range", they specify "Within 60 feet". So they were not written thinking it in combination with the Distant Metamagic, that only affects the Range, but not the Casting Time. So, as per the rules now, you could cast a Distant Counterspell (120 feet), but only when you can see a creature within 60 feet of you casting a spell. It has been asked for several years to rewrite Counterspell (& the others) in order to clarify how they would interact with the Distant Metamagic as was intended originally, IMHO.
@@kazebaret Unfortunately my table runs RAW. Or at least as close to RAW as we can without getting into stupid territory. So metamagics do pretty much what they say they do. Also Contagion is pretty much useless IMO post-errata (or at least not worth a precious spells known pick), and Inflict Wound to me is not generally a great spell (I just dip Hexblade and run Curse + Magic Missile for auto-hit dmg).
That said, yeah the new metamagic options definitely have their uses for specific builds. I’m just speaking on general terms.
@@M0ebius My bad, I did no realize they took away the "poison condition" in Contagion. Yeah, my table is pretty RAW as well, even if there are some cases where the RAW and RAI clash so much, like with Distant spell, where we prefer to keep with the RAI. I agree dipping in hexblade is very powerful, but we do not use the multiclass rule, unless there is reason for it during the adventure.
One homebrew element we adopted years ago....Wild Magic surge is based on the level of the spell. Cast a 2nd level spell? It's a 2 or lower on the D20, Level 9 spell? Roll a 9 or lower. The sorcerer players we've had rolled every time they used a levelled spell, had a separate colored dice used for their surge for expediency, and its been wholly satisfying as a player and a DM to implement :)
To slay a mage, you have to BECOME the mage...
I can imagine Bad Kitty's party ending up in some sorta time loop where Bad Kitty's ended up in the past fighting another mage, and that's the fight that caused Bad Kitty to gain their magical powers to begin with.
I love this
While I understand why you made each decision, it really puts an exclamation point on the power of EFFECTIVE teamwork. Being able to split the grapple & melee features, and the anti-mage features would be easier, and harder to shut down. Having the whole package in a single build is a bit awkward.
i expect :"the REAL real mage slayer" next week ! :)
Will the real mage slayer please stand up
Perfection
would the real mage slayer please stand up
Substitute teacher: "Mageh Layer. Mageh Layer? MAGEH LAYER!?"
Student: "Mage Slayer?"
sub teacher: "God damn it!"
Would love a Monk subclass that specialized in mage hunting. Maybe have a special variant of Deflect Missile that affects ranged spell attacks, and can redirect the spell if the damage is fully negated.
Maybe have a unique feature that allows the Monk to attack the Spell Slots of casters, and gives a bonus amount of temporary hit points based on the level drained + Monk Level + Wisdom Mod.
Very unique build! I love to see a Tabaxi used and the strategy guide was brilliant. It is a little unfortunate that the Silence, grapple strategy doesn’t come on line earlier but this was a really tough challenge.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think if you focused on like primarily doing the silence grapple. Bm ranger would be perfect
"I hate mages, meow, meow, meow" is going to be stuck in my head for the rest of the day
a belt of giant strength should be pretty good on this character
I imagine it this way...spends an hour or two watching and rewatching videos, makes character, runs away from mage to cast silence, rolls a wild magic surge of 41-42, takes self out of battle as a potted plant.
Pre-watch comment: I’m going to guess that to slay a mage…you need a mage. So my guess is that this is going to be a Wizard build.
My guess was sorcerer as the base. He mentioned Metamagic in his previous vid but I wasn't expecting the subclass he selected, nor the multi-classing.
I recall my own ability in one campaign to screw with casters when using Subtle spells.
"Nuh uh... I did not cast Charm person on you! All I did was ask Reeeaaal nicely" *wink*
You could do this with a wizard. If grappling+slaying one mage/LR, you only need 2 instances of subtle spell tops, so you can do that with metamagic adept.
@@MsNathanv You still need to be able to use quickened spell though, in order to cast silence and grapple on the same turn. If you only have metamagic adept, you can either subtle spell or quickened spell, not both
I love your level breakdown videos. Always super informative.
i called wild magic for the bonus to counterspelling, but i didn't even think about using tides of chaos for grapple checks as well. that's very clever. anyway it's really neat to see how all the pieces of this build came together!
I think your “ultimate Jack of all trades” would make an great mage Hunter.
Well, it is a Jack of all trades after all.
For Wild Magic I recommend you let your player roll every time they cast a sorceror spell of lv 1 or higher. Always. It is fun!
A shadow monk with blind fighting and sentinel works for me... Sometimes the best solution is the simplest.
I thought about this. I think the issue with relying on the sentinel feat to keep the mage in the silence is that you need to hit their AC. If a mage is optimized, it can easily have an 18-20 AC before shield. Add a shield to that and landing that sentinel hit to keep them still becomes pretty unlikely.
@@ZacharyKatzStein Oh shield? That spell with a verbal component which cannot be used in the silence spell? Got it.
@@adamkaris fair enough, no shield. So now you are relying on a single attack roll against an 18-20 AC. Coin flip at best and probably a bit worse than that until higher levels.
@@ZacharyKatzStein you could use darkness instead and have advantage on all your attacks thanks to blind fighting... Vision is still an important part of spellcasting.
This is... certainly an odd one. Solid, no major complains other than how many levels it takes to get going, but really, REALLY weird.
This is my favorite D&D channel. I love your builds and analysis.
That said, this build is a dud for me, because I think it fails to deliver on concept. It is extremely effective at shutting down a single mage, but does so by going basically full spellcaster, making it more of a “wizard duel” specialist than mage slayer.
To me, a mage hunter is a martial/martial leaning Gish who has a few special abilities geared towards shutting down mages. Shadow monk is not very effective, but it does deliver on the concept.
Something like yuanti Hexblade 5, paladin x (watcher probably) is were I would start thinking about optimizing this concept. You get extra attack and counterspell/dispell magic at level 5, and can feel like a martial character right from level 1 with hex weapon+scag cantrips. As you level you will get the paladin auras, and can go supernova doubling up with eldritch+divine smites. It doesn’t have the total shutdown tactic of this build, but it delivers on concept right from level 1, and will do fantastic dpr/nova for the 99% of times you aren’t fighting an endgame boss mage.
This is exactly what I had hoped for in the last video. The great hunter of mages is a mage
Can I just say that this was really neat? Good stuff.
A very interesting build. I'd definitely be interested to see more based around roles like this.
omg this video is perfect! my next character will be a mage hunter , thank you , you're awesome
Thundercats are on the move Thundercats are loose! I'll assume that one of mages were actually a mummy lord.
I think he would be an undying warlock.
Really cool and interesting build greatly fitting the concept! The only thing that sours my desire to play something like that is that... eventually you're gonna go up against the Big Bads who have Legendary Resistances, Actions, Layer Actions and so on. So when your ability to be the Mage Slayer is needed the most the Villain can just choose to succeed that saving throw or make the floor shake so that you fall on your ass and lose the grapple or something else just because. It would really stink to be this badass Slayer of Mages in the midgame only to go splat ineffectively by the time the Big Boss arrives.
Hi! I love this character. I think that introducing the story of the characters into the video brings richness. :) Congrats again for your chanel!
If a wild mage never surged, they obviously aren't using Tides to its full effect, or the DM isn't calling for Tides to trigger as often as possible.
Since we're talking about fighting NPC casters with better spell selection wouldn't a spellcaster with hypnotic pattern & counterspell wreck Bad Kitty most of the time given his atrocious WIS save and the fact that neither has verbal components?
A spellcaster would be counterspelled most of the time. But a BBEG who causes a non-spell Wisdom save will wreck bad kitty.
If you want to use your wild magic surge, just use tides of chaos and ask your DM to make you roll on the wild magic surge table on your next spell. With a coperative DM you should be surging all over the place.
Agreed. I never understood the argument that the surges don't come up. There are rules for causing them to come up all the time that most people don't seem to pay attention to.
Yeah if a DM forgets about your ability, just ask them. Don't expect your DM to remember everything, just help them out a bit.
34:35 Wouldn't having a wall in the way that would obstruct vision also block the silence due to the PHB spellcasting rules in the section titled "A Clear Path to the Target"?
It's an AOE, so you can drop it near the mage without seeing them.
This is a great build! Really appreciate the effort. I would give this one a go for sure.
Do Unsettling Words actually work in Silence? Because I mean, it's still WORDS right?
That’s what I was coming here to say
I had a very similar build based on your ideas, but what is your opinion on clockwork soul as a subclass? You can swap out the extra spells known to be any abjuration (or transmutation spell) a warlock, wizard, or sorcerer could cast. So you can pick up counterspell, dispell magic, shield, etc. for "free".
Plus, "Magical Guidance" at level 5 lets you reroll any failed ability check for a sorcerer point, be it a grapple check or a counterspell check.
That's nifty
I love clockwork soul. In this case I figured the improved chance for grapple was necessary for the tactic to have the best chance of success.
I think using Magical Guidance is an inspired route to take.
I think the 2nd level spell "Maximilians earthen grasp" is good also. STR save vs restrained condition is harder than Athletics or acrobatics to escape. Also there are a few ways to make the target have disadvantage (Arcane tricker feature, eldritch knight feature, or metamagic). I think using this as opposed to grapple would make the build more focused maybe? Just ditch the grappling totally.
Problem is both Earthen Grasp and Silence are concentration spells so you can't use them together, the reason you want Restrained + Silenced is so that the Mage can't teleport out of it, if you used Earthen Grasp you won't have Silence so the Mage can just Misty Step away from it.
@@banan9377 true enough!
Would you be able to use cutting words in Silence with the telepathic feat? I think at the very least you'd find a lot of DMs who would rule in your favor.
Officially no, but I agree that a lot of DMs would probably allow it
5:41 initial thoughts would be to use quick toss to throw a net as a bonus action
16:17 seeming you didn't go net here. A bit surprised to be honest
22:17 shocking grasp is verbal, but with subtle spell you could do this in the area of silence while grappling to block absorb elements, a reaction spell with no verbal components. Additionally shield, but this is also blocked by silence as its V/S
34:43 if only this was a wisdom build, then you could get away with observant just to read lips in silence.
38:56 if the mage is using a spellcasting focus instead of component pouch, then fear could be really good as the mage would drop their focus making them incapable of casting many material components spells
47:18 the enhanced movement was a very interesting solution to the counterspell problem, I would have thought that using your reaction for a subtle counterspell would work but obviously much more expensive than just being a fast boi
I wanted to avoid "to hit" rolls, so net was out.
@@TreantmonksTemple ah because of shield and mirror image. Makes sense
I've been waiting for a Wild Magic build! Tides of Chaos and Bend Luck are great building blocks for a gish character.
Nice build! I like the strategy going in. I might consider Divine Soul over Wild Magic to sacrifice some of the Grappling benefits (of which you stack quite many, each gaining lower marginal value as the previous layer ramps up the % of a successful Grapple, such that additional stacked layers affect an ever smaller miss %) to get Counterspell + Silence in the same Class Spell List, to bring everything online much faster and access higher level spells much more quickly (plus more Sorcery Points and such, not to mention the entire Cleric Spell List). Almost as effective vs. mages (and quicker to come online), while having IMO much better performance vs. non-mages.
Do not forget "Favored of the Gods", which can really help you should you face a Saving Throw cast from that mage.
And if you can get a lucky feat in there, that would help with a more reliable form of advantage perhaps.
You do miss the bard features of course. I was thinking of Divine Soul right away for the "Favored of the Gods" ability
A divine bad kitty on a mission from god to slay mages?
@@Hendori3 That sounds... hilarious and terrifying at the same time!
@@kazebaret I saw from Treantmonk and also read into it myself, but the Divine Soul ability doesn't work, because "Favored by the Gods' doesn't work on ability checks. Grapple is an ability check
@@Hendori3 Yes I know, that's why I wrote "saving throw". "Favored of the Gods" is not useful for the grappling, but when an enemy mage casts a spell on you.
I was honestly expecting a straight Sorcerer, the Paladin levels hit me like a truck.
Yeah, paladin came out of no where!
Ok, I'm impressed with the creativity. Awesome build :D
Awesome, thank you!
Rogue/Sorc - use Subtle Spell along with Illusion magic like Silence and Invisibility to get close to mage's under stealth. Grab Abjuration and Conjuration spells along with Twinned and Quickened Spell to deal with their magic (Dispel Magic, Counterspell, etc.) and then Sneak Attack for the kill.
More than a 100 rounds of combat after our monk got stunning strike and it worked only twice, both because of bend luck. It's there when we really need it.
I would rule for unsettling words that it wouldn’t work in a silence spell.
I say that cause it states “you can spin your words laced with magic”
How can you talk if you are in silence?
*subtly*
What my main DM does for Wild Magic (WM) is for every sorcerer spell you cast that does not trigger WM, you increase the activation range by one. Once you trigger the ability, it resets back one. For example, sorcerer casts a spell, rolls a 17 on the die and does not get a 1 to activate WM. On the 2nd turn, they roll a 12 and does not get a 1 or 2. On the next turn, they roll a 2 which is would trigger WM. On the 4th turn they roll a 2, which is not a 1 to trigger WM.
Would be interested in seeing how acrobatic you would have to get in multiclassing and drawing from usually banned book sources to make a mage slayer that was actually a martial (like most mage slayers that people like to build) while still avoiding using a monk... ;p
Straight classed bm ranger. Silence + expertise in athletics + extra attack. With beasts to be able to restrain enemies too
@@willwalsh7591 forgot rangers get silence too, nice
All he needs is a whip as a melee weapon. This way, his name becomes Kitty Whippins
And now, I'm tempted to make a Halflinh Chronurgist 2/Wild Magic Sorcerer build that lets you roll All of the dice
I picture Puss N Boots from Shrek 2! 😂
At 32:00 you say your athletics check to grapple is only a +5, but wouldn't it be +7 because of +1 from your strength and +3 proficiency doubled is a +6 adding up to +7?
Yes, apparently I was doubling +2, but should have been +3 - becomes +9 at level 9.
Awwww yisss, my man TM delivers!
Great video! Another build I would love to see one day is a build specifically focussed on defeating aberrations.
Holy shit, I have a sorc/bard build I have been working on that is very similar to this. The support and utility this build brings makes it awesome even when not fighting casters.
Most DM's I know that would go to the trouble of making a mage boss would already be giving it subtle spell to deal with the counterspell problem. How does this build fare as a mage hunter when things go wrong?
If the enemy mage is built to deal with this build, it's not going to be able to do its thing.
Very cool take on the mage slayer idea. I'm personally a fan of the traditional ancients hexadin with yuan ti or satyr thrown in for good measure, but new creative options are always good =).
came to watch faster than the notification, so very nice
"prone grappled guy"
Im lost, why does grappling someone automatically make that enemy fall to the ground?
It doesn't, but you can shove prone a grappled target.
For my own Mage Killer, I drew inspiration from Fate/Zero’s Emiya Kiritsugu. Criteria:
Excellent counters towards magic reliant opponents
Amazing mobility options
Guns akimbo with a Calico submachine gun and a Thompson single shot (or whatever equavalent depending on whether or not the DM has firearms on their campaign).
Stats:
Dex 15
Int 15
Con 12
Wis 12
Cha 8
Str 8
Race Variant Human
Mage Slayer feat
+1 Dex and Int
Free skill: Arcana
Urban Bounty Hunter - Stealth, Insight, Thieves’ Tools, Undercommon, Ear to the Ground
11 lvls Rogue:
Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, Perception, Investigation
Expertise - Arcana, Investigation, Perception, Insight
Sneak Attack 6d6
Cunning Action
Mage Hand Legerdemain (Arcane Trickster)
Steady Aim
+2 Dex
Uncanny Dodge
Evasion
+2 Dex
Magical Ambush (Arcane Trickster)
Sharpshooter
Reliable Talent
4 lvls Artificer:
Magical Tinkering
Infusions - Repeating Shot, Sending Stones, Enhanced Weapon, Goggles of Night
Eldritch Cannon - Force Ballista (Artillerist)
+2 Int
5 lvls Wizard:
Arcane Recovery
Tactical Wit, Arcane Deflection (School of War Magic)
+2 Int
Spells (not all of them since I don’t want to faff about):
Mage Hand
Message
Spare the Dying
True Strike (which is actually pretty good on a Rogue considering the conditions needed for Sneak Attack)
Green Flame Blade
Firebolt
Booming Blade
Cure Wounds
Jump
Longstrider
Shield
Darkvision
Arcane Weapon
Magic Weapon
Misty Step
Blink
Blur
Haste
Counterspell
Dispel Magic
Fireball
If I rolled these stats instead of using Point Buy, chances are I would’ve taken Resilient for Con saves, Fighting Initiate for Archery, War Caster, Alert, Observant, Keen Mind and/or Tough.
I was the guy in the other Mage Hunter video who advocated the Shadow Monk as a *DECENT* Mage Slayer. While I argued there that a Shadow Monk was nowhere near as bad as you'd observed (you had some poor logic in some observations, and had forgotten about some features in others). But, I like this build because, unlike the Shadow Monk, you also have access to spells for utility, more skills, and a more effective grapple check. Also, you have Dispel Magic and Counterspell, which I like. Well done!
My only argument is that not all mages will fit all of the qualities of the "Our Prey" section, so for the most part you are preparing for an unlikelihood happening. I would argue that 90% of the mages you go up against will not be like Vecna or Lord Soth. This is why I also appreciate how your build fits in other combat and roleplay scenarios, as well.
Here is my slightly-not-as-good Shadow Monk build:
Firbolg (+2 Wisdom, +1 Strength). Assuming a standard array, I would give them 15 Strength, 14 Wisdom, and 13 Dexterity. I would spend my first ASI on Sentinel and the rest on STR and then WIS, allowing me to have 20 STR and 20 WIS by level 19. I also chose Athletics and Stealth as my proficiencies. This allows me to have great grappling checks while at the same time having a 19 Ki Save DC, which is as high a DC as one can have in D&D. Optionally, you can also use an ASI to get the Alert feat for better initiative.
So, imagine this:
The strategy can be used as early as level 5 and scales well into the latter stages of play. First turn, I rely on my Dexterity to get a higher initiative than the caster. This would be aided with the Alert feat. For my full action, I cast Silence on the caster. As a bonus action, I cast Hidden Step to turn invisible and gap-close as much as I can to the caster. I'm able to use Silence and Hidden Step in one turn because Hidden Step is a spell-like ability and does not count as a spell. You mention here that it would be easier indoors to cast Silence because of the nooks and crannies of something like a dungeon. Your words, not mine. Outside, I'd have to be at least 10th level to cast Silence without being Counterspelled before gap-closing with Hidden Step in the same turn. If I can't get close enough to Hidden Step, I'd use Shadow Step or Step of the Wind to gap-close. If I was close enough to the caster when the fight began, then I'm doing Flurry of Blows, with each blow doing a Stunning Strike.
On the caster's turn, they can't move because I have advantage on my opportunity attack (if I used Hidden Step as a Bonus Action) and Sentinel. I can even try to stun them with Stunning Strike, but I don't need it to keep them in the zone of Silence. On my next turn, I can do any combination of Stuns and/or Grapples as my Attack action and then use Flurry of Blows on my Bonus Action to get in as much stuns as I can to stun-lock or grapple-lock the caster every turn. At the very least, the Silence + Sentinel + Hidden Step/Shadow Step mobility would do very well as a way to keep Silence on the caster without needing to do much on the monk's full action.
This build doesn't have as many features to make my grapple hit 100% of the time like your build does, but as long as I have enough ki points, I can repeat the strategy until I'm able to get one stun and/or grapple in.
Really cool concept! Out of curiosity, for locking down enemy mages, did you consider Sentinel? I feel like there is a lot less commitment/investment than going into the grapple space. You could go Variant Human Warlock 5 and be pretty well online (Fathomless - snags Silence, Counterspell, Sentinel, and Metamagic Adept). The commitment to grapple is heavy, and is only usable on Large or smaller casters. You could come online a little later and go Satyr/Yuan-ti Pureblood and be a little better in fights with more than one caster as well. Minor Illusion to block enemy spellcaster's vision of you, cast silence (quickened) on them free, and then walk up to them in melee - if they try to escape Sentinel bash em.
This build is built around the grapple tactic, but it certainly isn't the only way to go
I think you could make something work with a ranger / fighter multi class going gloom stalker and rune knight. The gloom stalker gets bonuses to initiative and the rune knight on a hit can as a free action use the fire rune to restrain the target, action surge and cast silence then Bobs your uncle
I would have expected Divine Soul Sorcerer... doesnt that also give a +2d4 iirc that could be used for Grappling? And it would allow picking silence at level 3, no MC necessary.
Doesn't work for ability checks, if it did, that's the way I would have gone for sure.
@@TreantmonksTemple did you consider an owl familiar to get Help? (Of course you did, just wondering why you did not go that route)
@@MrABK108 my guess would be that the owl’s initiative modifier wouldn’t be the greatest, and it certainly wouldn’t be better than yours, so the chances of it going before you to be able to deliver the help action seem small to say the least.
@@SilverKarlov oh, it must be one of those few tiny HR i have always practiced.
It just makes it easy to handle when the pets share the turn with the owner.
Recently I played a optimized Bowser, who was a wild magic grappler turtle with green flame blade, subtle, quickened and instead of fay touched skill expert for the expertise.
The first enemy was my real-life friend, the storm sorcerer, which I grappled and held his mouth, while burning him little bit. Next time I will consider silence!
Awesome video
Clicked to see if the video is uploaded and guess what! 👌
If I hadn't liked already, I would have liked for the Frere Jacques bit alone.
44:20 wait, how do you have a +13 initiative? 2 from dex, +5 alert (7), +4 proficiency (11). Jack of All Trades should no longer apply as it only applies to skills don't already include your PB.
Am I missing something? 31:52 You moved 90 feet. How? Tabaxi move at 30, add 10 for longstrider to make 40, and go 40 twice because of the tabaxi stride. Makes 80. Where is the other 10 coming from?
I thought you were going to link your valor bard build you did awhile back
Great video, only thing I would have prioritized over other ASI would have been resilent WIS because having proficency in both wis and con for when something goes wrong and the mages actually manage to cast a big save and suck is important. Sure paladin is great but comes online late and would stack with proficency
It's so unfortunate my DM hardly ever picks/makes mage enemies in my current group. They make for some nice change of tactics.
Not at all what I was expecting.
tbh, it wasn't what I was expecting when I started the project either. At all.
If silence was a first level spell, then a psionic warrior fighter with magic initiate could also get the job done (via telekinesis)?
A well prepared wizard would have some contingency prepared for any situation.
Couldn't you take alert at lvl 4 and pick up misty step and the Cha boost later? A static +5 on initiative is better than a 1d8 and you can't be surprised. Maybe you can't pick those up later, I'll have to check the rest of the build. But trying to get those wildmount spells in a non-wildmount campaign is a Herculean task. You'd have to be a Eloquence bard to make that persuasion check.
You know how good optimized Mages are when Treantmonk almost gives up trying to stop them...
So you're saying Bad kitty is a good kitty? 😁
I'd usually prefer Lucky to Alert. The effective bonus is similar, but Lucky is more flexible, and it's bonus is biased toward where we need it: when we roll low. Although Alert does have a nice side-effect interaction with Blind Fighting, and if building this as an ambusher via Stealth expertise, I might prefer Alert anyways.
I’ve tried a build similar to this. It works great, so long as the enemy spell caster isn’t also a sorcerer 😂😅😭
I try to take advantage of being 65ft away, and boom, distance still counterspell 😭
A well timed distant spell is sometimes just as effective as a subtle spell!
Given that Fey Wanderer is available why wouldn’t you use that subclass within this build for the bonus to the counterspell ability of the mage Hunter?
“Will the real mage slayer please standup, please standup.”
is there an alternative to "Gift of Alclarity"? from the feytouched feat?
For the Sorcerer Tides of Chaos ability, There is no role of 1 required. The DM decides after you cast a Sorcerer spell if s/he wants you to roll on the Wild Magic Surge table. Once you make that roll you regain the Tides of Chaos ability. It is this reliance on a DM which is the reason I have only played a Wild Sorcerer once. The DM was a a$$ and had me roll on every non-cantrip sorcerer spell I rolled except when I wanted to roll, usually in desperation. . .
needing to roll every time you cast is part of the core class, you need to roll a 1 to surge though so only 5% chance
how it is supposed to work is that you use tides of chaos to grant yourself advantage, then you cast a spell and automatically surge, then get tides of chaos back so basically permanent advantage but risk rolling on the surge table
Great build, looks like fun stuff. Only issue I can see would be the low attack bonus for being able to hit. Thoughts on mixing in a level of Hexblade in place of the 20 charisma? You have a lot of ways to hinder the ability for a target to make a saving throw with multiple means, I'm curious if the +1 to checks and save DC at level 20 is that much better then another +2 to hit as early as level 10 possibly.
I know this is an older video, but I'm thinking of trying a similar build in an upcoming campaign. Would you say a 1 level hexblade dip (I know, very annoying) would be worth it early on? Frees up sorcerer spells since you get shield, and helps with AC early on with medium armor, and makes melee attacking later land much more often by making our attacks SAD for our charisma. Seems to me like it'd be worth grabbing, but maybe I'm wrong!
Just occurred to me that a fairly standard sorcadin would check most of these boxes given its burst damage, strong saves, and access to sorcerer spells. That would probably take 9 levels to fully come online, but it's not like paladins are *bad* at killing anything, spellcasters included, up until that point.
That said, I'm not surprised that you ended up with a multiclass build. It's difficult to find a single-classed character who checks all of the boxes, particularly if one of the boxes includes saving throws. Lots of characters who, from a thematic perspective, arguably *should* be good at killing spellcasters, such as Assassin rogues or Way of Shadow monks, check some of the boxes but are simply lacking in too many others.
I wonder how a divine soul sorcerer could work, if they could use Animate Dead and have their zombies make multiple grapples.
I have a Creation Bard that animates statues so they can grapple mages while I cast silence. Then the psychic lance 😈
But can you build the real mage slayer slayer?
I like some of the Earthen Grasp ideas but that only deals with the movement and without Silence does not do much to hinder a Mage. So would require a second caster and then we are dealing with Mage Slayers not a Mage Slayer. So this character build has the ability to solo Mage Slay which is an important distinction.
rouge swashbuckler with sorcerer wild magic? will work i think
Thought this would be a full caster with minor modifications (which also hits all the prerequisites). Good to see that we have something more original, always nice to be proven wrong.
Since this is a grappling build I feel like there’s some missed Cat Luchador angle?
planning on taking down Halister- silence and shove/ grapple are the main plan- pushing him into a anti magic field. and of course, winning initiative.
Best thing is, if you go all the way to Level 20, you could get to 5th level Bard so Unsettling Words becomes even better. Plus, I think I'd rather put that 8th level in Sorcerer rather than Paladin just for that extra sorcery point so you can use your resources slightly more often before having to replenish with spell slots. But still, this is a good build, no doubt.