Winching out of a DEEP RUT sideways... Can it be done?
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- I was SERIOUSLY NERVOUS doing this! I was trying to get my Toyota Bundera 4x4 out of a rut by winching it sideways! At the beginning of this video I talk about how I THOUGHT it would go BUT it turned out differently! If you want to skip my speculation and why I did what I did jump to 7:12 for the action. This sideways winching self recovery idea come after I STUFFED UP in the SAME RUT in a previous video . Here is that link • CRAZY Winch Recovery o...
Thanks to Pierre Mouton and Ben Cook for suggesting this was an alternative winch recovery to the CRAZY winch recovery in the above link.
Here at MadMatt 4wd there is everything from 4wd tips and tricks to fixing your four wheel drive. As a professional Four Wheel Driver I am all about educating and building the 4x4 community. If you are passionate about going bush with a 4x4 then this channel is for you. Enjoy and please subscribe & Hit the bell icon to be notified as soon as they're up!!!
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The back end was always going to come up first because with that third snatch block, you had roughly double the line pull acting on the rear of the car. The frictional loss through the blocks would actually be very small compared to the single line pull and wouldn't really be a factor. But jolly well good on you mate. You put a theory to a serious and proper test and we all learned something that could come in very handy. Very well done. You lunatic...;-)
Cheers mate
It bugs me that people keep saying doubling the line at the rear would cause the rear to come up faster.
Doubling the line doubles the pull at both ends. It's one line.
Makes more sense to me that the rear came up first because it's lighter.
@@DarxusC Disagree. You can't magically double the pull at the winch. It's going to pull only what it's rated for. 9000 lbs or whatever it is. By the time it's gone around the first two sheaves, that will drop through friction but not by much. Let's say it drops to 8500 lbs pull after the second sheave. But then it goes around the third sheave and is anchored to the tree. That will almost double the pull on that sheave. Again, a little loss through friction so lets say 16000 lbs. So you end up with 9000 lbs pull at the front and 16000 at the back. Hence, as the video shows, the back always moved first. Ye canna break the laws of fuzzics, Jim.
@@rustyironproductions6458 is right. You get a constant tension, more or less as the frictional loss is very minimal, throughout the winch rope (which chaos has said) from the winch to the anchor. However, the rear gets double the line pull because the winch line is pulling from both sides of the snatch block. Simple pulley physics. www.explainthatstuff.com/pulleys.html
@@DarxusC Sorry, you are not thinking this out right. Look at it the distances traveled at the anchor points. For example, if the winch pulls in 20 feet of rope, the rear of the vehicle that is anchored to a snatch block will pull 10 feet. Because of that, the force is (very close to) doubled at the snatch block. I think the original poster assumed that the torque loss of the snatch block would offset that, but in reality, it's not even close.
"Who put these sticks in the bush?" 😂
WOW. Really impressive recovery! I wasn't entirely confident that it would work.
Lol gotta have a laugh. Thanks.
Mate, I thought he was going to roll a tyre off its bead ....
I went and watched the previous video for the full story.
I've subbed, anyone crazy enough to go back and try that with no recovery vehicle is mad enough to be my mate.👍👍👍
Ha Ha
I finally have a mate. :)
Risky pull for a demo! But great stuff! Thank you for putting it on the line (quite literally). When you in those positions, by yourself, you need to do what you’ve got to do to get home. Subs here for sure!
Cheers mate. 👍
He was all kinds of going when he got out lol love it
You would think I was there with you. I can feel the adrenaline rush you are feeling in that situation. Great job.
lol yeah it was a fun video I don’t plan to make again.
YOU HAD YOUR TIRES POINTED THE WRONG WAY the whole time lol Matt off road recovery fan here ;)
It’s certainly easy to see that now and I wouldn’t have the snatch block at the back of the vehicle if I did it again either this was an excellent opportunity to test out a theory and learn from it
@@MadMatt4WD as the other Matt always says: it seems counter intuitive ;)
That's definitely where a spotter would have been handy. I was saying the same thing as he was getting to the top. Turn your wheels.
Compliments from the U.S.! You have stones!
LOL cheers.
That was an awesome tutorial. Filled with nail biting suspense. Thanks for sharing.....from the other end of the world.
Wow, did you just do that? Very generous thank you.
Great bit of film work. Love the encouragement one another to get through some challengingly climbs.thanks for sharing
Pleasure
Ripper Matt! VERY enjoyable, and educational. Haven't seen a segment quite like that before. Keep it up!
I’ll try but it could get expensive. 😁
To have an even pull on both ends you need to have the same setup front and back. ie single, double or even treble blocks! that way the forces will be equal over the whole setup! You do have the MADNESS to do that with no backup and on your prized vehicle! Great video !!
LOL yes i worked that out later on. Yes a i watch it now and cringe.
Impressive! Thanks for the education and entertainment, glad it turned out alright for you.
Thanks for watching!
One of the best recovery videos I have ever watched, thank you!!!
Wow, thank you!
Really unique stuff. Thanks for risking your rig for our entertainment.
Yeah. Sometimes i wonder about myself 🤪
Well done Matt.
Awesome vid. A well deserved cuppa needed after that. Keep up the good work. Have a great Father’s Day. 😁👍
Cheers Jack
Just found your channel and it’s awesome. As an American I’m a diehard Jeep fan but you Australians have some of the coolest 4x4s. I really enjoy your how-to videos and hope you continue to keep making them.
Welcome aboard!
Hi Matt. Another fantastic video. Thanks. It practically demonstrates how a double line pull has more power than a single line pull. Well done. Hope I never have to do it, but great to know it works.
My pleasure. After making this I realised I had effectively set up a revers winch.
That was brilliant Mate ! Simply brilliant !
Nice glad you enjoyed it.
That was an amazing recovery 👍👍👍👍 loved it
Glad you enjoyed it
Good show, MM. Lots of thought, mechanical advantage, enough blocks & straps ect. and Yee Haa! Cheers from the west coast of British Columbia.
Thanks mate. I’m not sure I want to do it again though. 😂
That was just crazy. Bit of of a mathematical equation setting up and then I was waiting for the truck to tip over. Then somehow it all came together. Took some serious courage. Hats off to you. Brilliant work. I will not be trying it though.
Lol. Not sure I’ll try it again
appreciate the work you do and the quality in these videos keep up
Thats nice of you to say. Thanks
Reflecting on this pull and having watched hundreds of tow truck recoveries of ditch-divers to include big-rigs, I'm thinking the double on the rear was actually a *good call* instead of pulling out sideways. I suspect there was less dynamic loading on the cable this way and it allowed the rear tires to roll a bit instead of sliding sideways thereby reducing ground friction and loading of the cable. You essentially did a rear pull with the front being stabilized buy the same cable instead of a true sideways pull. ...but I'm speculating of course. Nice demo!
I hadn't thought about it like that. I like your thinking.
AWESOME, WELL DONE.
10/10
Just INCREDIBLE.
YOU are the MAN !!!
Glad you liked it!
That was awesome dude, learned a lot from this video. What a beautiful cruiser and I’m floored you’d beach it like that just for our education. Thanks for sharing the video! Cheers mate.
Glad you enjoyed it! I’m kinda mad. 😂😂
Fantastic recovery, Thanks
That was insane! Absolutely loved it. Gotta give that ago myself
Go for it!
Again great info, great video 👍👍
Lake Havasu, Az.
Thanks mate
Seriously awesome video!
Winching backwards (with a front winch) uses the same winch setup too ;)
yes it does
That was brilliant, well done!
Cheers
This set up is basically a reverse winch, you get double the pulling power to the back of the 4wd. If you ever need to reverse winch it would be the same set up BUT 1st snatch block would be further to the front, then the next 2 snatch blocks more directly behind the rear (or as possible) of the 4wd, either to the same tree or to 2 different trees would work. But you do need 3 snatch blocks because just using shackles would/does provide too much friction.
Yes that’s correct
That was AMAZING!
I’ve just subscribed, wow well done Mate very interesting and exciting as well, looking forward to more videos
Cheers Amos 👍🍻🇦🇺
Thanks mate,
just stumbled across your channel, loving these videos! :) :) :)
That’s great. Thanks
Hearing you giggle was worth the watch. lol
Great video Matt, very informative and calm down buddy 😅😅😅
Lol. Calm????
Super helpful video, thank you!
Pleasure
Great stuff. You actually found another way to winch a vehicle backwards without putting the winch rope under the vehicle!
Lol
Risky! Matt you're a crazy man. Love your work!!
LOL not sure i'm doing it again. :)
I was a nervous wreck and I’m sitting in my lounge room 😂 nice job!
Lol
The 'pucker factor' is at 100% by the look on your face! As others have said, crazy pull for a demo BUT the idea factor is off the scale for self recovery!
WOW! you've got guts!! found myself in a similar situation and I called a tow truck!!
Or maybe just dumb. I'm not sure which some days. :)
Very interesting, thanks👍
15+ years ago, we were on a trail in Northern Arizona where a Jeep had slid off the trail, about half as far as your original position. The elders in our group used recovery straps attached to each end of the jeep and attached to one vehicle on each end. They pulled each direction, pulling him sideways back onto the trail. I would never thought it was possible without a full sideways pull with a winch.
Very cool
A snatch block not only changes the direction of pull but also reduces the amount of pull you need so I personally would have ran a doubled snatch on the front with a single snatch on the back so that my front end that has all the weight comes up at the same time, or you could always pivot the truck by pinching the nose around and haveing an other go. Thanks for the video I blame Matt's off road recovery for me finding your channel.
Thanks. I think I should have single line pulled the whole way to pull the car up square. Matt’s got a lot to answer for. 😜🤪🤪🤪
@@MadMatt4WD That's a lot of load on your winch with single line. It's OK the back came up first. Great video
@@Rubicon43 this is a 12-000lb winch so yes and no for this little rig. The time of winching is more the concern as I only have one battery
@@MadMatt4WD Double reason I always use a snatch ring. At half the pull, the winch takes about half the power to run and gives your alternator more time to help out. My JLR alt -> 240 A, my TJR, 106 A. I use a Spanish Burton rigging to get 1/4th the speed and current draw only because it's fun to rig up. I use a Bluetooth app on my current meter to see how much power I'm drawing. My TJR is only 3,200 lbs. Line load vs amp is a straight line with about 65 amp draw at 0 load.
@@Rubicon43 yes in this situation I had the starch block at the rear which actually made this a reverse winch.
A perfect plan executed flawlessly.
Thanks
Great video and good reminder. The main forces were going to be at the rear where the system terminated. The first block after the winch was mostly a redirect with a minimum sideways force vector due to the extreme angle so the majority the forces directed to the rear. The section from the winch to the first block at least stabilized the front of the vehicle while the works was occurring at the rear. Had you continued when the rear stopped moving, then sideways force would have shifted and been applied at the front. Having the mechanical advantage of the double line pull at the rear allowed the winch to work a little easier and slowed things down just a bit which are good things.
Very interested had no idea which way you were going good job
Lol not sure I did either.
Hi Matt, just watched this following our chat. I would not have predicted what actually happened . Very interesting. When ever I am involved in a recovery where the casualty is on a side slope, I try to attach recovery &/or safety line to the higher side. ( often not possible I know) . Attachment points on the centre longitudinal axis ( which most are) can act as a pivot point for a roll over. Keep up the vids . Regards Non Stick Nick
Cheers. Great chat tonight as well.
Have side winched out of side sloped gully in a 110 with roof rack but used a rope between trees with a strap to the roof rack so it didn’t tip over.
been close to doing that. I bet most 4 wheelers have been there .. thanks for doing this.
You bet
Well done, nice job
😊
Absolutely amazing.
Or crazy.
@@MadMatt4WD 😆🤙
I needed this technique a year ago along with a winch. Feel asleep at the wheel and ran into a ditch on my way to work the same week I bought my jeep. I called a friend and he pulled straight out from the rear but there was no way to avoid damaging the top
That was exciting, it would make me nervious!
Lol it did
Great video thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Awesome effort However the double pulley will always move more as its able to reduce drag & therefore rear moved faster & easier
as a rigger I am impressed to see someone demo how to use the new lighter technical gear & thus proving how easy it is to get out Rather than revving & making a mess of things as well as mucking up tracks etc
Hats Off to you Matt PS: Waterproof seat cocers have several duties just saying
After the fact I realised I had set up a reverse winch situation by mistake. Yes they do LOL
Draw it out on a bit of paper and you'll understand the forces at work. Understanding angles and force loading is very important in this kind of recovery. If you can it might sound crazy but try out a rope access course. You will learn so much about forces angles and loads that you can apply to winch recovery.
I actually have a fait bit of experience with this stuff. But every situation if going to be different.
@@MadMatt4WD Ok cool, your video came across a bit different in terms of expectations. Keep them coming as its good to see some of the more technical stuff.
NO entourage means a safe recovery site. We have discussed the dampners and I still call them a feel good gimmick. I enjoyed this video the first time I watched it and picked up on some stuff the second time> "that's not working the way I want, but it's working" LOL IT WORKED>
Cheers for the comment mate. I wish we could go for another wheel together.
Nice video, this is similar to a reverse pull with a front mounted winch. I carry a 8tn come-along for sideways work along with the front winch.
Yes thats right.
Amazing how winches can pull at such an acute angle to the front of the car! If that line had to be connected to a recovery point (say if using a hand winch), no matter how well rated, I imagine it'd rip it sideways even with equalizer strap😮. Good to see the ol' Ridge Ryder did the job! Mrs Mad Matt is definitely quieter on the 'peaking' front than you!😂
As others have already stated the friction of turning wheels in snatch blocks is very minimal.
Also having 40+years of winching experience in the NT I’d recommend if in that situation,
Wiggle the steering to get the wheels to slide more at the front. It’ll create a crab action with the rubber! Awesome video showing how safe it is to take the time to winch out of a predicament
Rather than to be a hero like the many videos of the Widow Maker at Coffs Harbour.😎👍😎👍
Cheers mate. I was trying to get the front to crab but in reality it didn't pan out as I expected. I will do this again with a single line pull.
Hay it definitely works so now just set up on the flat and show the difference with the angles and movements 👍👍👍
I scrolled through a bunch of the comments to see if someone had already mentioned this... but there are too many comments for me to tell if I'm restating something or not... This was a really cool video, at first, I thought that the double on the back was a good call because I figured that the fact that the front wheels were turned would allow them to free roll just a bit, slightly reducing friction (I assumed you were going to be in neutral 2wd)... so I figured that the front would pull easier than the back... but in hindsight, with most vehicles, the front wheels probably have more weight on them and therefore more traction... So you're doubling up the force on the lighter side of the vehicle. Also, once the back got ahead of the front, then the front wheels were more perpendicular to the direction of travel, eliminating any advantage that would have been gained by the fact that they might free roll a little...
Great comment and this is how I thought it would work but we are both wrong. After the video was released I realised with input from followers I’d actually rigged a reverse winch thus the rear was pulled up with no force applied to the front.
Me after watching a "how to wench out backwards" watching this: That's gonna yank his rear out way more than front. hehea. So glad I watch vids like this, lot of good use when you actually have to use your wench!
Right on!
Good to see
Glad you like it
Great in theory Mat except the double line pull was on the light weight end of the vehicle. It also bunches up a huge amount of winch rope at the side of the drum.
Do love that you get out and give it a go. Shame you're not in WA, would be great finding you on a track somewhere for a chin wag!
Come to the Perth show. I’m there with TerrainTamer
@@MadMatt4WD You may have already seen my other reply, but I said much the same thing. I was fortunate enough to work in Fremantle for about 3-months back in '91/'92?? Got to go into the outback in the proto-type Oka vehicle. I don't think they survived, but they did produce a few vehicles for the mines in WA. I loved your great country and the people.
Cheers. Yes Oka is gone but every so often we see one on the road.
You are frigging crazy mate!!
Kudos however, I learned that I should not winch a vehicle sideways, too much strain, you have to have a very powerful winch, capable of pulling three times the weight of the vehicle.
I would think you should winch either the front or back sideways until you have the vehicle lateral to the winch
point (tree etc), then winch it out.
Great lesson!
Yes I’m not sure if I would do this again
Needed to recover myself from a ditch after rescuing a Jeep about a week ago. Ran a winch line at about 45 degrees up slope and strapped the rock slider to a stump on the uphill side. Much simpler and no real chance of pulling one end up without the other end coming up.
Fun video.
In my line of work, theres a term used for whenever you run out of length in your rope and they pulley and anchor strap start to get bunched up. Its called 2 blocking and it can be a very dangerous situation. Normally you want the line, (in this case rope) to be the weakest rated thing in your system. Yes, you read that correctly. The theory is that if something fails there is only a line flying through the air vs a line with some metal attached to the end of it acting like a projectile.
What can happen if you dont have a spotter and the winch line keeps winching your system runs out of room and the devices 2 block themselves. A metal shackle or a pulley can get twisted around or sideloaded in a way that its not rated for and perhaps fly through the air in addition to the line. Spotters are HUGE if you dont have a remote winching option or if theres a lot of background noise to dampen the sounds of impending doom happening outside your windshield. The only sound youll hear after that is the sound of a gunshot going off from the line breaking, lol.
Great comment. Totally agree re line as the weakest part.
That was great. Thanks for sharing. From memory, the more pulleys you have on a fixed point (the back end had two), the more mechanical advantage it has (its gonna pull twice as much as the front). If you had three lines at the front (four pulleys) the front end would’ve come up instead of the back end. All the best for your next one!
Thanks for the kind words. So when you put a Snatch block it It halves the speed and almost doubles the pulling power. In my setup the Red SB at the back of the Bundera is the only point where this effect happens. So the front in theory is only getting half the pulling power of the rear. As we see in practice this didn't matter. One day i'll pluck up the courage to do the same thing single line pull.
@@MadMatt4WD this method of using multiple sheaves is the same principle a lifting crane uses to lift a load. Each time the cable is routed over another sheave it increases the line pull force. Next time you see a crane at work, take a look at how many times the line is routed back up to the boom tip through another sheave and down to the lifting block, (hook). It is called parting. The capacity of the winch stays the same while the hooks lifting force is doubled. If the crane struggles to lift easily then the rigger/operator may run the line back up to the boom tip through another sheave and back to the lift block, (hook) and thus increasing the lines lifting capacity.
@ james moore yea but in this scenario there is only one snatch block that is giving him any mechanical advantage, that’s the one on the rear bumper. All the other snatch blocks in this scenario is just change of direction, not giving any MA. Btw, sorry, I know I’m late to this comment thread.
Bloody hell Matt !! , nicely done but it was edge of the seat stuff mate at least the Bundy was all good 😎👍🍺
Yeah. Imagine if the cable broke?
No mate I’d rather not....thanks lol 😂
I’ve had the same situation and I discovered that if I slightly drove forward and backward it helped the winch immensely and pulled me out. Sort of like what you were doing here. It’s stuff you just don’t know until you get out there and do it.
Exactly.
From 1 Matt to another, crazy is where it all begins but u just took it up a notch with that effort on your own. Be a lot of stress on the winch & equipment. Hopefully l don't find myself in the same situation
Cheers.
The problem with this style of recovery is that while it went well for you, you where so close to rolling the truck in the event of a very likely winch cable snapping, the amount of stress on that cable would be crazy, good on you for giving it a go and having the confidence in your knowledge, experience and gear to do it.
Yes
Ty sir just used this trick to pull me an another person outta yooper Michigan ditch ...
😊
during training one of our people got a bobcat sideways and ready to tip over, It took some quick thinking to tie off to the top of the cage to stop if further rolling as the cat was pulled to safety.
As a country kid we learnt the value of ropes. So if your stuck in a roll over position the first thing you would do is secure your vechicle in place by using strong ropes and tieing down to a tree or another vechicle. after the vehicle is secure then look at recovery and if the situation is beyond your skillset go for help.
What a rad recovery...👌...Haven't seen anything like that before...Don't worry, I was sweating too...Seen you last night at show your dirt, So many brilliant 4B's...How good was the turnout...you were talking to some dudes around the Bundy, I thought ide come back and have a yarn...Then you disappeared...If you going to the 4x4 show next hopefully can have a chat then...😎👍...
Sorry I missed you. Yes I'll be MCing the Engel stage. It certainly was a fantastic night.
Sweet...See you there...✌...
Did you come a say hi?????
I went to the 4B show today. I was at the stage and saw you there and then tried to catch up after and couldn't find you once again...
That would be a slick maneuver to get out of a snow-filled ditch. It’s like a setup to winch in reverse. I have to wonder if another snatchblock on the front too would have done even better.
In hindsight I’d certainly have set it up differently. But it did the job.
Congratulations, you got out of that rut. Seemingly it helps, if the wheels are able to turn. Would be helpful, if you choose your anchorpoints further out, so you can roll some 2m to and fro - would require more extensions, of course.
Wouldn’t have done it. But was definitely interesting to watch you do it, very high chance of rolling it over on the downhill side.
Hugely sketchy.
Amazing!! =D
Good job Matt. I was thinking that the double line at the back would pull at 1/2 the rate in distance. But really it seems that more of the doubling of pull strength was in play rather than half the rate. I was worried that with the winch rope pulling across your front wheel that you could have damaged the rope as the tyre lugs went by as you tried to drive. Very interesting outcome. Glad it's you not me. Pucker moment!
Actually, I wonder whether you need to have your front tree connection further forward of the car to get maybe a bit more forward motion?
I tried to move the tree but it was too heavy. 😁😁🤪🤪🤪
I literally just did this 5 hours ago slipped off the track and I was literally shitting myself, no reception to call help.
I recovered a full-size Bronco from a side slope stuck with the potential to roll into a creek
I also secured the rear to a tree across the road and winched the front at a 30 to 45 degree angle until the heavy front end was on the road surface; the presence of snow aided the slipping of the tires to our advantage.
Wow that sounds crazy well done
I've done a similiar recovery with my Scout. Oh, and this was somewhere in the late 70s. I only had the one block and I had a lot of slick mud that helped. I just let the wheels spin and it pulled out easily.
That’s so good
“Who put these sticks in the bush” 😂 yup I know the pain
Lol
I had to do it with a Kawasaki 750 brute force I was at a bad angle and I had to get over an obstacle so for safety we used snatch blocks and the warn winch to anchor it from rolling over. It took allot of slow moving and repositioning with another quad winch as a second anchor
It is not about the frictional loss , the setup in the back is acting like a big "slag" wich is being tensioned.Thats why rear end goes .
Thanks for doing this experiment! Please don't risk that beautiful land cruiser! haha
I know. I cringe now.
With the same equippment, if the car was supposed to be winched out with the front-end coming up first:
From winch to first ancortree block(1), back to a block(2) in the front(of the car), then to the second ancortree, block(3), and then to the back of the car.
The different distance between each blocks (and ancorpoints) in the front and back affects the "speed" of pull.
Becouse of 2 blocks in the front, and only 1 at the back, the pulling-distance between the front and rear are different. (shorter in the front), wich make the front come up first.
And of course weights differences affect friction and friction differences affect the total pull. (in every chain the weakest link always snap first)
In Matt´s setup the pulling distance are shorter in the back( in addition of lower friction due to lower weight. ) That´s why the back-end came up first. ;-)
Yeah after the fact I realised I’d set up a reverse winch.
@@MadMatt4WD Easy way to remember regarding winching: (and the line is attached in both front and rear of the car)
Equal set´s of block´s at both end = equal pull.
Odd numbers of block´s = uneven pull. (most pull at the end with most block´s attached) ;-)
Nice trick
Thanks
My only thought would be maybe turning the front tires the other way, as the rear was coming up the front would of followed and climbed out as well.
Yeah It didn't seem to work.
I winched sideways at a hard angle and burned up my synthetic rope on the fairlead without a snatch block, straight line pull. I got out of a really bad spot in some deep mud but it was worth the risk, because I was wheeling alone, deep in the woods. Lesson learned, don't wheel alone and don't winch from the side or a side angle / hard angle. Having said that, it was my only option. I had no trees in front of me that would handle the weight. The front did come up high but I kept readjusting the line in and out and turning the tires into the direction of the pull as I winched forward. If you're going to make this kind of recovery, just time your time and make multiple adjustments and be prepared to damage the line from friction.
Excellent comment and well done. Sometimes recoveries are difficult and need close management as you did.
@@MadMatt4WD Love the channel Matt :) Keep it up! Cheers from Kentucky~
Great vid, I understand you should allow around 5% of the total load to be taken up in frictional losses per snatch block.
I was sweating watching the vid! Great job!
I'll have to finish testing the frictional losses of snatch block va snatch ring vid (winch brake failed half way through....)
Cheers mate. I’ve been looking at those rings.
@@MadMatt4WD the only thing i found is some sheaths on the soft shackles (arb for instance) has too much friction and the snatch ring doesn't spin under load, even a couple of tonnes.
Well thats a fail then. Must be a different material.
Great