Fam, do you think Spencer’s criticisms were too harsh or do you agree with them? Next 30 people to become $5 or more Patrons will receive stickers and a signed pic with a note on the back!❤️ www.patreon.com/paulandmorganshow
Spencer Smith is a pastor and missionary. He's also a Bible believing Christian. He knows his stuff and I agree with him completely. Contemporary Christian music today isn't what it once was. Some of these "artists" have major doctrinal issues. I have no problem with Smith calling them out. Lauren Daigle is a CCM artist but won't mention Jesus during secular interviews. Why? Ashamed of Him? Don't call yourself a Christian if you're ashamed of Jesus.
I never fail to be edified when listening to Spencer. Yes, he sometimes takes a sledgehammer to a nut, but we are living in a time of hardened hearts - particularly amongst professing Christians.
I was deep in Word of Faith for 11 years. When I came out of that, Spencer was the ONLY person I could find that would help me with my biblical questions. His documentary, Third Adam, opened my eyes to so many issues going wrong in the body of Christ. There are so many people being led astray by Bethel, Hillsong, and Elevation. Understanding that CCM is just another genre of entertainment in music was a hard reality for me to wake up to. There are no requirements for salvation in CCM. Spencer is trying to reach the ones who are searching, and he realizes that you can’t do that by walking the middle line. The problem is that too many people think calling out these artists is not loving. The reality is that calling them out is loving the body of Christ according to the Bible. I would also recommend doing research into CCM. The music itself tends to be what the Bible would call pagan. You guys really need to do research because Jesus Christ would have called these people out. Paul called out false teachers by name. Also, doing greater things means after He has risen, believers would be able to go out and witness with the Holy Spirit. Anyone who thinks they can do anything greater than Jesus is falling prey to the little gods doctrine. My eyes were opened to this after I left Word of Faith. I am all for being loving, but there is a hard line being drawn right now. I pray that you guys use discernment and biblical truth to determine which side you end up on. God bless. 💕🙏🏻
@@PaulandMorgan Thank you! I have done a LOT of research, and biblical study over these things myself. People do not realize how spiritually abusive Word of Faith and other movements are. It’s why my husband and I started a support group. God bless you and your ministry!
Exactly right! You can speak the truth in love but you need to speak the truth. You can't go soft on heresy--particularity when these artists are heretical. Simply said--the church is lazy. It's asleep in the light.
I've been deep in the word of faith for 40 years and it's been a blessing to me. I've done lots of videos on the subject if you want to check them out. Many people have misconceptions about what word of faith is. Maybe your issues aren't with Word of Faith theology but with the error and extremism on the edges of the movement.
@@JewandGreek I know exactly what Word of Faith is. I lived in it for 11 years, and I believe to understand it, people need to understand its origins. I have done too much research on that subject to debate it in a RUclips thread. I have seen a few of your videos. At one time, I would have agreed with a lot of things you have to say. However, my issues with Word of Faith are just as much with the doctrine as the spiritual abuse that comes along with it. I don’t doubt that you have been blessed by it because I don’t think God is limited by anyone or anything (especially humanity’s shortcomings.) God bless!
I do disagree with Spencer on some things, but I appreciate that one of his biggest struggles when he got saved was music. I know that he has a passion for the holiness of God and for people to be saved. I have seen him get teared up, because of genuine concern for people's salvation, so I think his passion coupled with his strong personality can come over as harsh, which can push people away. His content has however been a great blessing to me. I have been bed bound with severe Lupus for 3 years and his live streams always brings my focus back to God!
@Almera Du Pissani that gives me alot of hope. Your testimony I mean. I love Spencer. He's one of the best blessings to me. I dont agree with everything. But sometimes being harsh is the best way.
I like Spencer's Videos. And his documentary about the third Adam series. It's helped me a lot. I use to listen to Hillsong and Bethel's music. I didn't realize that there are so many Christian bands and music out there that are biblical. The modern post, Christ our life, selah, and city alight. Bill Johnson's church is defiantly demonic and so is his Hillsong. Benny Hin Ministries and Elevation church. I think it's very important who we listen to. We can support small church's that are writing their own music or bands. Just because they say there, Christian. That doesn't mean they are. We should know them by their fruit. Are they conforming to the world. Supporting abortion and the LGBTQ. Are they encouraging their fans to live for Jesus.
@@melanieschlageter amen! Why should you judge a church who helps people worship Jesus & makes their relationship with him stronger! May not work for you but it might work for others ☺️
Spencer Smith is right! I've been in ministry and church my whole life, been in dozens of churches and yes what he is saying is true. Modern CCM is the golden calf of the modern evangelical church.
Before I listened to Spencer I was a schizophrenia christian! We really need more people like Spencer....We all need to stop sitting on the fence....no time for being a part of the world...There is a big difference between what is right and what is almost right!!
John Stamp, no, we need more people like Jesus. The church is full of religious people who are fault finders. There's no shortage of those, but you know what? Fault finding and accusatory comments don't lead to repentance. It's one thing to correct a brother or sister in the Lord who happens to be in error but calling them a heathen is hefty indictment and if I were Spencer I would be careful about throwing a label like that around. And another thing, his tone sounded a bit like one of contempt and he might want to examine his own heart when making comments about other people. I'm not a Toby fan but I am a fan of some contemporary Christian music ,but I'm also big fan of old Southern gospel music too. I'm just saying that if we're going to hold each other accountable (and I believe that accountability is vital to the Church), then we need to do it in a loving way and not in scathing one. By the way, I agree. The church does need to stop sitting on the fence. We can do that by doing a Jesus told us to do.
@@spottedsaint957 totally agree with you we do need more people like Jesus...I guess the bottom line is How Holy do people regard God as, I think if we could get that right then we will be less tolerable of Sin in the Christian circles...I am not a big fan of any christian or worldly music at this moment as I have only just come out of the Bethel circles and am hesitant on what is doctrinally correct at the moment. I was gullable to what was out there and took a sip of the devils cup Never Again!!! I no longer listen to spencer, however he does have a part to play...If it wasnt for him highlighting certain things I dont think I would be free from all the garbage out there. I was all about love and not judging...it got me sucked in to wrong doctrine. Anyway the bottom line is I will stick to the bible nothing less, nothing more!
@@johnstamp7736 Just stick to the scriptures and stay in prayer. Some of the "ministers" on RUclips aren't necessarily the ones that you need to listen to. If you attend a particular church and are certain that you can trust your pastor, then he's pretty much your spiritual leader and authority figure. I don't worry about music so much, but the message being taught in the church that I attend matters a lot. That's the main factor that determines on whether or not I continue attending that particular church or not. More so than the style of worship.
Same here! He has helped me to mature immensely. It's not always easy to hear, but it leads me to examine my heart and read the word of God. God bless you, sister.
Spencer is a cult leader who calculated that he can gain viewers by lying and exaggerating on the sins of others. He is a whitewashed tomb . Run and don’t look back as he will drag many away from Jesus Christ. Watch what the Mormons do and your going to understand Spencer . Everyone is lost as far as mormons are concerned and if anyone is a Christian it’s not good enough for Spencer. Spencer thinks that he is an authority on matters, he hides in his own religious talk to disguise his own religion .
@@raymatthews4319 he doesn’t understand that Spencer is just calling people out over their fruits and doctrinal identity. He can’t grasp that concept. The Bible states that there must be fruits if you are born again. And not just helping people come to know Christ and spreading the Gospel, but also in your own life. 1 John is a good example of the fruits we must bare. Laid out plain and simple. The changes we make in our lives, turning and repenting and not practicing sin matters just as much as spreading the word. You can’t claim to be Christian and then do things that aren’t in the word, and then not repent of those things. People don’t get that concept for some reason.
Spencer shows true concerns about some people or certain churches but he is way too harsh and condemning. It totally discredits what he says. We can stand firm on scripture while still being loving and gracious like you guys. 👍
I agree. He is one of the few that I had to tell RUclips to not recommend because last April his video titles seemed to be going in the direction that the jab is the mark of the beast.
Wow y'all pretty much called Spencer out and then just reiterated everything that he has said. Bethel and Hillsong are insane and if you can't see that then you need help. These people are definitely not Christians and although I don't agree with everything Spencer Smith says he is on the money 99% of the time
Spencer Smith, that’s not a good rebuttal: quoting a scripture. If they said something inaccurate correct them. Let’s not play mystery games; makes you look petty
To be honest, for me everytime I hear him speak I get confusion and no peace. To me that's a WARNING bell. We need to ask Holy Spirit who is in us to help us and to convict us on what we hear to be truthful. We should be getting guidance from him and not from someone's critical opinion. We need to be careful in what we say because I believe that every word we speak gets recorded.
I agree. I am generally of the same opinion Spencer smith has but of course i dont agree on everyhing but the thing is that his exposing videos turn into kinda mocking, pridefull, sensational videos. His behaviour seems rather presumptuous than caring
@@dv4740 Yes I do not like the way he edits his videos to make it seem creepy and demonic; if it was truly demonic he would not have to do special editing to make it appear that way.
If you have studied the contemporary Christian movement all the way back to its beginning to the extent Spencer has, you are truly a born again Christian and have a hunger for the truth, you will know that he is preaching the uncompromising Word of God. I have been saved since 1983, eight years before you were born and got into the contemporary Christian movement because it appealed to my “flesh” and the life of sin the Lord brought me out of. At the age of 16, I left my boring Christian upbringing. I turned to the world…fun, friends, parties, alcohol, drugs, sex and rock n roll music and at 18, the night clubs. After 10 more years of seeing many of my friends killed in car crashes because of drinking and drugs, I began searching for purpose in life. The Lord led a childhood friend and ex roommate who had been “born again” into my life. The Lord saved me and I was totally changed instantly. I had a hunger to read the Bible and the words were life to me. The church I was saved in began to shift to the “charismatic” movement. Every time I would read the Bible, the Lord would speak to me “do not be deceived”…”many false prophets will come and deceived many”. The pastor began to do “new things”. He finally told us we no longer need to read our Bible because God had “called” him to “lead” us. I left that church immediately. He then became an “self-ordained” Apostle, not “Pastor”. Please be careful to judge someone or something only by God’s Holy Word. We are command to “study to show thy self approved unto God”. We are living in the last hour and the Bible warns us “many” will be deceived. I have been studying God’s Holy Word for 40 years and have watched the “church” become deceived through the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. Brother Spencer has opened my eyes to truth through hours, months and years of research. Though research I have found that the majority of “Christian” praise is nothing more than “Christian” entertainment, handled by the same managers of the secular bands. The bottom line is money…for the “love of money” is the roots of all evil…for not everyone who says Lord, Lord is of God. We cannot know God if we do not know His Word. We are commanded by God to “be ye Holy…for I am Holy”. Research these things for yourself and allow God to reveal the truth to you.
I think the problem is we treat these music artists like pastors. If we realize that they are not we can just appreciate the worship music as long as the lyrical excellence is in alignment with the God of the Bible.
Problem is when the majority of musicians are not in alignment, and that our Bible-illiterate, church-going youth are exposed to it far more often than biblical text.
@@PaulandMorgan its not that I have a specific issue with you. But giving such a generic answer back is sometimes frustrating because of the simple fact that you are not actually listening. You put time and thought to putting all this into a video and when you realize how innaccurate it is you give such a generic answer as if you have no consequences for what you say.
Lovingly, 1. If they claim to be a Christian artist & never mention Jesus in their music then that’s a red flag. If it’s claiming to be a Christian song / album. Because then it just sounds like a love song or a worship song in which we do not know who it is directed to. 2. God is mentioned in Ruth and Esther.
While I agree with a lot of what Spencer Smith says, what bothers me is when he at time, judges and condems people without truly knowing what they believe. And if you disagree look out, from him and some of his followers. It is one thing when Pastors clearly teach things against the Bible, a whole other thing to go after people like he did with people in this video and others even more recently.
Yes exactly. That Phil Wickham video was absolutely vile. It thankfully got removed, but this wasn’t something that should have happened to begin with.
John the Baptist, Paul the Apostle and of course the King, Jesus Christ said many direct and sharp things to those who needed to hear it. Sensitivity in this culture is rampant and it’s not biblical. Not everyone who says they are a Christian is actually a Christian.
As a worship leader at my church, there's a point in listening to the voice of God, and noticing when "worship songs" aren't exactly biblically accurate. When I feel convicted that a song I've sung is leading people the wrong way, I will stop singing it all together, and it offends a lot of people. I love contemporary music, some of the artists are not necessarily always writing completely biblically accurate correct songs, and as a worship leader, I cannot still sing those songs. At least that is what I've been convicted to do. That being said, "we all fall short of the glory of God." I think it was very rude and harsh the way Spencer attacked these musicians. They might not have realized their words could've been taken in a way not meant. And to call them heathens????? Just very ungodly in my opinion. Because Christ says we are to go about correction with mercy, love and gentleness.
Just got back from his livestream. I do think Pastor Smith has a real passion for the lost and is concerned for the church not being separated from the world as it ought to be. That’s been the biggest struggle for many fundamentalists for years. I do hope that you can push past his demeanor and realize that the lack of doctrine that these artists have led to their apostasy. Please don’t put him in a completely negative light. God bless you.
He does make good points however I think he leans so far fundamentalist that he’s in legalistic territory. We should be different from the world but if we’re separated from it, how is the world to receive the gospel?
@@rissroo4325 we can reach out to people with the Gospel without stopping to the level of the world. The reason why Pastor Smith puts emphasis on separation is not because of legalism, but because he values the Word of God and sound doctrine. He isn’t a legalist because he doesn’t add to what God says. I believe that you’ll find the Roman Catholic Church to be an example of a legalistic church due to their many traditions and extra biblical practices. To be different from the world and to be separate from it are two different things: the former signifies standing out and probably setting trends whereas the latter focuses on the exercise of personal righteousness by not indulging in the sinful things of the world. Please understand the difference in them. God bless.
@@ethankaryadi37 I've followed Spencer for a while now. I understand and fully agree with him that followers of Christ need to be separate from the world...and in full agreement in his stance against ecumenism. However, Spencer's personality is what truly grates on people. I don't even think bull in a China shop does the description any justice. His livestreams are devoid of love. He seems ro be spending more time with promoting his "merch" and book "Doctrine Matters" than expressing any form of love to his neighbor. Yes, we are in perilous times, but beating a tired or scared horse will only make them run from the battle, not towards it.
@@ethankaryadi37 People love crying "legalism" when Spencer and others call out false doctrine. Yet they are strangely silent when it comes to false cults which do practice legalism. Is it just me or do I detect hypocrisy from them?
I agree with Missionary Spencer Smith Completely. Most Contemporary So called Christian Music today has very little scripture or Gospel. Most never mention Jesus, The Cross and are only Spiritual Mysticism.
Dear Paul and Morgan, I do not agree with everything Spencer has said. Yet he is someone I will go up to bat for. I know him pretty well and the man may as well have saved my life and my little sister from an abusive situation. Thats why its personal for me. But I will make this comment as unbiased as possible. Y'all spoke without even watching many of his videos. You said that based on his critiques about Toby Mac you could say he was harsh and that he should've said more. He has in the past. If you watched his videos such as Third Adam 1. You would understand his stance here. He is a Independant Fundamental Baptist and quite frankly he's one of the reasons why I am even still here. So its foolish of you to speak before you even know him. I respect your opinions and you have valid claims if Spencer was lying. But since Spencer has valid claims because he has proof and I do as well it makes yalls claims invalid. Spencer is not speaking out of turn or being harsh. He's using the scripture and trying to live by it. It says to mark false teachers and it says that the Bible is a sharp two edged sword and sometimes that sword cuts and it hurts a great deal. But we all need that sword to hurt and cut out the bad things in our life. That includes music that is worldly. When music sounds like the world its bad. Music should be set apart. Those beats you hear in ccm and modern day music come from tribes back in Africa or native Americans when they were worshipping pagan gods. Im sorry but music as well as doctrine you cant be nice and compromise. You have to show tough love and resist false doctrine.
You said it’s foolish of them to speak before they even know him? But Spencer is also doing the same thing and calling these worshippers out as heathens. I came to know God from hearing a lot of this sound. Hillsong to be exact as they had televised their church. No Christian background what so ever in my life, But I experienced the Holy Spirit which I didn’t know at the time. So when I see people who dismiss other believers, I find it sad and also glad that I never saw a lot of these comments new in my faith. What a sad reality we now live.
@@Teremoanabrockbank what I meant by Paul and Morgan not knowing Spencer is that I mean that they have not watched all of his videos. They dont have any background on his channel. You say Spencer is doing the same thing with people like Hillsong. No he isnt. He has done interviews with them. He has read what they say and Im sorry but what they say is so heretical. So therefore what you said there was invalid because of the fact that spencer actually gets his facts straight. Paul and Morgan here have baseless claims. I understand you have your experience with Hillsong. But people can be saved in spite of that. Just like a catholic who is saved is saved in spite of catholicism.
Ooh love you guys and Brother Spencer and his Livestreams every thursday night. He stands firm on the Bible and the fundamentals and that why Liberal so called progressives hate him.
I’m conservative and I use to listen to this dude. Trust me I found real discernment in the Word of God and found out how Cessationism denies God’s power. As stated in 2 Timothy 3, They have a form of Godliness but deny the power.
I really try to be careful about what Christian music I listen too (I don’t listen to Bethel, Hillsong, or Elevation) but personally I really enjoy TobyMacs music. My dad has listened since DC Talk’s early days so I just grew up hearing his stuff. I think his songs aren’t always “deeply theological” but he isn’t a worship collective or church affiliated band, he is a Christian pop artist and I do think there is a difference. He is not representing a church and their theological position/specific doctrines, I don’t really remember ever seeing anything alarming coming from him. I agree he is pretty safe. Just seeing how he has dealt with the death of his son and how he has still glorified God through it all is really telling to me.
Don’t you understand that Bethel and Bill Johnson and those associated with them don’t even believe that Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time. (Kenosis)
As someone who has followed TobyMac for years, I can say his lyrics and his message bear fruit, even moreso than a lot of other popular artists today. I think Spencer is guilty of what we all are tempted to do: Judge people who are held on a pedestal more harshly than we judge other people or even ourselves. As for Toby, I encourage people to check out his live performance of 21 Years, or any other song in that concert. So much of his message is uplifting and glorifying to God without negating the hardships of life.
I believe that Heaven is packed with people that Spencer would call heathens. It is not our place to call other people heathens. We are created beings, called to be humble and kind to one another. All we can do is look at someone's outer appearance, but God looks at the heart. Only he knows what is in people's hearts, and Jesus showed that he was more forgiving than we humans are.
I watch Spencer’s videos and they helped me a lot when I was healing from the hypercharismatic nonsense. Because of all the twisting of Scriptures and harm done, I’ve become a cessationist. I believe God can do miracles if He so pleases for His glory but not that it is orchestrated by man nor that it is common. This is where I had to come to based off my own reading of the Bible and through my own healing process. I don’t have anything to do with Bethel or IHOP or any other house of prayer type dominion theology heresy. I used to love Kari Jobe, but her support of these cults has made me have to leave her behind in all the garbage. If she supports false theology then it will be in her music, too. Spencer Smith has many videos on people who have openly admitted to deconstruction and turning to more progressive worldly “Christianity” so he may have earlier videos building up to this one. I don’t agree 100% with what Spencer believes (and he does a lot of name calling) but I certainly pay more attention to what music I listen to. And I agree that we should use the Bible (in context) to weigh things. I’m still getting there but I’ve been out of the false movement/cult/whatever you want to call it longer than you guys. It took me awhile to get where I got and it was through reading my Bible. I left the church completely for some time before coming back. It’s so sad to see that these false movements and cults strip people of any view of God and turn them toward the world. I’m so glad to see you guys so fresh out and not abandoning God. Sadly, some of my family have gone to worldly religion or atheism because of it and I almost did, also.
The Bible is very clear about not testing God and that’s exactly what these people did by demanding God to resuscitate someone who passed away. It’s pretty clear to me he had already given his authority by allowing the girl to pass away. Someone might ask well didn’t Jesus did it in the Bible? That’s right JESUS did not any human. @lindsay smith
These "discernment" ministry people have the sin of pride. A lot of what they push as biblical is just 1950s American culture stuff. Evangelical fundamentalism that is 100% American. As someone that isn't American I see it clearly
I've personally known people like Spencer. I have no time for it. Thats too much. I could think of a bunch of other artists that are ACTUALLY HEATHENS LOL. To be so harsh on Tobymac?? The dude lost his son and sister I believe? I think Spencer needs to check his own heart. Jesus is gonna be like " why were you so harsh on my children? " judging Christians so harshly is a serious thing. At least I think so. At the end of the day ( end of our lives ) its just us and God. He doesn't want to hear about those other " Heathens " He wants to know how you treated them..
I'm not sure about Toby Mac, but I know that Kari Jobe has brought in a lot of the dominion theology into her music (I'd say the same about Skillet too). I really used to love her old music. Michael W Smith was in one of Darren Wilson's Holy Ghost movies and he definitely believes in some strange things. It's been a few years so I can't remember specifics right now.
Let's not forget that while we enjoy our contemporary Christian artists, they are also trying to reach those that are not saved as well. When I first became a Christian, my Mom had me throw away all my secular music...ALL of it. I did NOT like the kind of hymns she listened to. I have a passion for music & I was left with nothing I enjoyed. Then I went to a church service that had a musical guest. It was the Darrel Mansfield band. Now we're talking. I found an area of music that was now acceptable for me as a Christian. As I went into DC Talk and more what I realized was my Christian ears just need "wholesome" music. I needed music that didn't speak of sex, and the devil and those things that were not of God. So if any song gets put out by a Christian artist...as long at it doesn't have an invitation to sin in it, I can listen to it. There are ppl who hear Christian artists that are not Christian yet, but can Identify with the music & the more they listen and know this artist is a Christian, hopefully they can evaluate where they are in life and be drawn to the Giver of Life.
I love Spencer’s videos! He has blessed me with his content! He is an independent fundamental Baptist! I am more reformed in my theology, but I appreciate his ministry very much. I see how some might think he comes off as very harsh, but he is right about so many things! He is right about bethel church & hillsong! They are theological cults! Many mainstream Christian music is very watered down! I think some is okay but hymns & psalms are the best for worship!
@@PaulandMorgan I think Toby Mac is probably a sincere Christian. I think he is probably saved by my estimation. Kari Jobe is concerning in my opinion. She has very strange doctrinal positions from what I have read! I don’t know her relationship to God. I hope that she is saved & just lacks discernment!
@@rachelbanks2009 or not at all, specifically the heathen part. You can’t just throw that term around without absolute proof, and the only proof he had was that movie trailer clip which he took 100% out of context. I’m going to say this as respectfully as possible, but this is why I unsubscribed from Spencer. He doesn’t do research or better yet he doesn’t do enough research on these artists and takes quite a bit out of context. He shouldn’t have made the video before the movie came out. It’s not on doctrine anyway. It’s about the history of Christian music, specifically, modern Christian music and how it started, where it is today, etc. which means his video was absolutely pointless. If the movie was about Christian music’s doctrine, then ok, he would have ground to make a video. Someone who went and saw the movie left a comment on the video saying that every clip he used, including the clip from TobyMac, with taken completely out of context. As someone who was subscribe to him for a little over two years and watched him do this time and time again, I would just like to say, please don’t make him your main source. Do not trust him completely. He gets some things right, but he gets a ton wrong. He is 100% correct on Hillsong, Bethel, and elevation music, but in regard to CCM, that’s basically where it ends. The only thing he rightfully criticize Kari Jobe for is the Bethel stuff. The rest is slander. He even edited one of her songs to make it sound demonic and it isn’t. No I don’t idolize these artists, but he comes from a place of bias, because he hates CCM. Again, he gets things right and some of what he says is indeed true, and some artists he calls out are deserving of it, but that’s less than 99% of the time. Just be cautious is all I’m saying.
A problem is many Christian artists are not as grounded in the Word as they should. Colossians 2:6-7 says this. Christians, especially if they are in the public eye, should give the more earnest need to the thinks we have heard, lest we drift away..Hebrews 2:1.
this is the challenge with the Internet: it's difficult to get to know somebody personally, which can take several years of close interaction - then a mature conclusion can be drawn about somebody. 2 Peter was written when Peter was an Elder and I am sure most of the people he wrote about he knew personally for several years and probably tried to help on many occasions
Paul and Morgan, (if you have the time to read, here are some thoughts that I have :) I have been listening to both you, and Spencer Smith for a while now, and to sum up my position I will say that I both agree, and disagree with things that both of you have said. Haha! But, that is okay. The most important thing is that we are in line with the essentials of the historical Christian faith. I think that there is grace for the grey areas. No one knows everything, but I do think that is important for all of us to continue to read our Bible every day, and let God speak for himself through it. We draw our conclusions from what God has already told and commanded us in his word. Period. That is something that I appreciate about Spencer, and you guys! Though, I would love it if you guys would pull up on screen somehow the scriptures that you mention in your videos; I think that doing that puts things into perspective, and points us to keeping the Bible our authority, and not our opinions (which you guys mentioned in this vid). Just a friendly suggestion. I appreciate when I hear Christians with a platform such as RUclips point people to God's Word, and saying, don't just take our word for it, go to the source for yourself to make your judgments. That, and prayer, is the best thing we can do to help us to be less susceptible to false teaching. I have to say that I do agree with a lot of things that Spencer has pointed out about Christian artists, worship music in general, and some dangerous doctrines. BUT, there are also times where I feel stuck because I love music, and want to write my own some day... ya know what I mean?? I have no idea if the Lord will push me to share my own music some day, but we will see! On the other hand, though, I do not necessarily agree with how you guys view the "Wake Up Olive" incident, but I do appreciate the different perspective that you bring to this discussion. I remember when the "Wake Up Olive" events were going on, and it was honestly appalling to me to see how Bethel was going about this. From what I saw, there was a lot of chanting, vain repetition, and just senseless chaos that made it seem like they felt that if they got the right "formula", then Olive would be resurrected because God would finally be like.. "ding, ding! We have a winner! You have found the correct combination!" Bethel's open experimentation is VERY troubling to me because they readily go outside of Scripture in the name of spiritual experimentation. It is their methods that are troubling. They actually discuss that in one of their recent "Rediscover Bethel" videos; see what you think! Also, I think it is safe to say that we don't see Jesus doing things like that when he raised Lazarus from the dead. In fact, Jesus spoke against vain repetitions when he was speaking out against the Pharisees for their prayers that were full of vain repetition because they felt they would be heard for their many words. Matthew 6 is what I am referring to here, and really feel that it applies to this situation. Jesus even says the word "heathen" here in verse 7 (depending on the version you read, some also say pagans or Gentiles, but potato potAHto. : "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." (KJV) “And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words. (NASB) And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. (NIV) And please, go ahead and look at the full context. I just wanted to provide some scripture to show you what I am referring to. See what you think: I would definitely be curious to know! Anyway, these are a chunk of my many thoughts... sorry that was a lot! Also, I received your t-shirt last week! Love it! Excellent quality; thanks for the time and effort you put into it! Thank you, and God bless you guys. :)
@@ERB88 1st Corinthians 15 says that Jesus Christ is the Last Adam so how can there be a Third Adam. The Bible never says that the Anti Christ would call himself the Third Adam.
@@ERB88 No I’m not because the Bible never says that the Anti Christ is the Third Adam. If Jesus is the Last Adam how can there be a Third Adam? You can’t just claim that I’m missing the point.
Spencer Smith is a Independent Fundamentalist minister, an some of the stuff he says about the NAR movement an Word of Faith movement is correct. Many people in the Charismatic an Pentecostal world disagree with Spencer. Unfortunately in Christian music some of artists have become worldly an become progressive in their beliefs. I think Paul an Morgan should reach out to Spencer an have him on your show discussing the issues. I'm glad both of you don't always agree with everything the Word of the Faith or NAR teaches or does. Anyway interesting video.
@@jaymielee1110 Semler also essentially cursed Christ Jesus by writing lyrics with harsh profanities against having a Savior. I honestly am angry that people call her music Christian.
I think Spencer came down a little harsh, but I think he really is a defender of our faith but we are all human in the end. I appreciate that he can bring down the hammer if needed, but still not saying he’s always right.
He isn’t a defender of our faith. He’s a defender of his beliefs, and if you don’t align with his belief, such as only singing stuff from the ymnal, he condemned you to hell. He’s been called out for that in his comment section. Most of his beliefs about music are based on his own preferences, but he makes him sound like fax. He also takes things out of context, and makes claims such as calling, an artist, a heretic without providing proof.
Well said P&M!! 🤗 Ive listened to Spencer for awhile and I agree with some things he says and his videos on corruption in the Christian music industry has opened up my eyes to a lot but he can be harsh on his reproach to people who he wants to expose. I do think we need to remember God loves those people also and we should pray they repent and come back to God's truth if they're in the wrong.
Who misses there old intro! Me singing this every time when I watch them:”🎵the Paul and Morgan,the Paul and Morgan show lallalallalalallala🎵” Please include this in your next video,please!
If the music affects your walk ,then don't listen to it.Spencer Smith comes across as being very judgemental, which can turn people against a Christianity. Spencer says Rappers can't be Christians either,but they reach people where they are. IN THE END,we need to look within, and take the plank out of our eyes. WE are all our a journey. MAY ,WE STAY IN SCRIPTURE, KEEP OUR EYES ON JESUS and Continue to do good works.. not, to earn our way to Heaven, we do good works for What CHRIST has Done on Calvary..
I was just at a TobyMac concert for the first time this past weekend that also hosted Tauren Wells, Jordan Feliz, Cochran & Co., and a couple of others. Some of the performances that happened I did feel like they were a bit much, but the gospel was preached both inside and outside of the songs by a couple of different people there including Toby. He was on point with the gospel and how we are saved-that it’s not by being a good person, it is by accepting what Christ did for us. I have gone through some hard stages with Christian music-trying to figure out what is good and biblical. I have seen some Christian artists do and say things they shouldn’t have to save their reputation towards the world, and that is sad. These Christian artists are people just like us who have struggles, who get it wrong, who aren’t perfect. Of course, their audience are thousands and millions of people, so they will be held more accountable for what they do. I think we can forget that Christians can have different views on the smaller things though. I think we can forget to act in love and mercy and grace towards others, because if they profess Christ as their Savior, and we see something “wrong” in their life, we should correct them, not just straight up condemn them.
As a born-again Christian I feel compelled to speak to your video. I have followed Spencer for quite a while now. I see him pointing out scriptures in his videos that back up what he is saying about these churches and people. Please keep in mind he does not make these judgements based on one instance of these people. He does his homework and checks out what they say on their social media and the message in their music. He bases his opinion on multiple factors surrounding their beliefs, doctrine and actions. As far as Bethel you should watch some of his other videos on different incidents at Bethel other than the "Raising the dead baby" chapter. I say this with a lot of Emphasis. You need to remember the false teachers are leading more and more people to Hell every day. These churches won't hesitate to tell you that you are unloving and un-Christ like for pointing out their doctrinal errors. So, if Spencer calls them Heretics etc., I don't see that as over the top. These same people and churches will shout you down in a second if you try to correct their doctrine. It's not unloving or harsh to point out Scriptural wrong teachers if it saves people who might have followed the false teachings of Bethel Church.
The Bible commands us to judge over and over again. You should completely write off the Bethel cult. It's not a confused church. It's a cult. Look at their "doctrine." Straight up heresy. Same with the Hillsong cult.
TobyMac did not deserve being blasted by Spencer Smith and definitely did nothing to be labeled a "heathen." His songs glorify God in so many ways. I have been to multiple TobyMac concerts and He always talks about his faith in Jesus and always comes across as a genuine man of faith. The way TobyMac talks about how his faith sustained him through his son's death has been truly inspiring. It honestly troubles me when people are attacked without legitimate evidence.
Well said!!!!!! Y’all never cease to blow me away with your Biblically sound, Spirit filled, wisdom 💜💜💜💜 God is working in and through ya’ll and it shows😃 I used to watch Spencer’s vids and apriciated the wisdom the Lord has given him and especially that he can share it on such a large platform. But as time went on and he got more views he seemed to become a cocky, prideful, aragant, self righteous, rude, harsh person. And that is not the characteristics of Jesus. He tries to justify it by saying it’s righteous judgment or something but I’m sorry, if there’s no love, it’s nothing but the creaking of the rusty gate. He has a lot of truth but he ruins it all with his attitude. He doesn’t give much hope for those who are lost. He acts as if they’re disgusting and unforgivable and unsaveable. And that’s not the mind of Christ. It will only turn the lost away from Christ.
That's how I felt as well. All in all, I always look out whether the songs are Scriptural not just nice sounding. If I was blind would I know the artists, no, I'd only know the songs. I dont look into their personal lives nor support their churches.
@@NadiasCloud I agree with Paul and Morgan on their view of Christian artists. I always read the words in the songs, that’s the only reason I listen to the song haha. So ya I agree. If it’s not aligning with scripture then it’s currupt
I agree. I saw this too and called him out to stop this. Why not make a prayer call at the end of his videos for the lost exposed preachers he mentionned etc........ I didnt get it
What is not known is that all modern music, no matter the genre, all have one common thing: they all have a backbeat. The backbeat has its roots in paganism, and was used in pagan cultures to call up demons. Why would a child of God want to mix paganism with Christianity??? Oh, and BAPTISTS ARE NOT PROTESTANTS.
Everything Spencer Smith's talks about on his channel is true. Watching Third Adam 123 opened my eyes on the truth. @10:08 I understand Spencer can be too harsh on his videos but the man got a point! This is what Spencer Smith's also talking about being "Too Nice" Sometimes you have to be straight forward and call people out! because many people these days are so blind and have no discernment even until this day. So many christians on churches are still sleeping (If you get what I mean) and Spencer Smith is telling you to wake up! I believe the man. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
I agree with many things you guys say about Spencer. I’m not a fan of how he speaks about people, not necessarily what he says. He’s also got a strong bias. I reckon you guys would benefit from diving into what cessationists believe and the difference between full cessationism and classical cessationism. Might be worth looking into the context and meaning of John 14:12. It’s possibly one of the most out of context verses out there and then people base ministries and theology on it.
1 Corinthians 13 v 1 " Though I speak with the tongues of men and angels ,but have not love , I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal . V 4" Love suffers long AND is kind love does not envy love does not parade itself ,is not puffed up V 5 does not behave rudely ... Please read the whole of chapter 13 of l Corinthians 13 ,its a short chapter. I did watch the whole interview featuring Skillet and saw the man making the allegations was using a little poetic license to prove his point , the pentagram shown in his in his allegations was non existent in the interview as was the horns and fire on the lead singer also the way he presented the interview when compared to how the interview really happened is more like propaganda than the truth .
I think that Spencer Smith is being way too judgmental towards a movie that hasn't even come out yet. I think it's awesome they're doing a movie about Christian music, especially since it's evolving to be more diverse and unique in sound! He's calling people heathens just like the Pharisees would, without having a solid basis of evidence. As someone who grew up on and still loves Christian music, these artists really inspired me and encouraged me in my faith! They showed me that there's another way to go into music without selling yourself short. I've been a fan of Tobymac for a long time and he is a very solid believer. His songs show God's word and love. Also loved the NF reference Morgan, I completely agree with him! I'm glad you guys talked about this! I'd love a movie review!
I've never watched or even heard of Spencer Smith till this video. I have watched a TON of your guys' videos and I think rarely, if ever, have I disagreed with your opinion on most social topics. I can say that I don't agree with things Spencer said in THIS particular video. When it comes to singers like Lauren Daigle who makes songs without mentioning Jesus, I can say that I personally don't find fault in that. Her music still ministers to born again believers who KNOW the music is about God but it can also minister to unbelievers who would most likely never listen to her if they knew she was Christian. She's able to minister to a lot of people in that way. Just my opinion. I think it's far reaching to call them heathen. DO they 100% believe like us? Probably not. Have some different thinking? Probably so. But to call them a heathen, I think is not called for. Jesus said in the Gospels, "I have sheep you know not of." Thanks for the video guys! Always enjoy them 🤍
This is why i'm not subscribed to Spencer. He's too harsh. Doesn't show any grace. It's hard to watch him relentlessly bash ppl day in and day out. I unsubed when he dissected the song 'ocean' and try to show a problem were there is none.
SAME!! That song Ocean is such a special song that takes me back to the first time I was at the ocean in my life and I was about to graduate college and I was nervous about my future. And the Lord so clearly spoke to me about being on the edge of the rest of the world and how I just need to trust him and that song documents that moment in my life. Spencer is a little extreme.
@@jennifercrews3175 Ocean means so much to me too. I used to listen to it before going to work to calm me, as i had a very stressful job. Spencer should realize, It's easy to be critical of Christians in this day and age. It's the cool and acceptable thing to do. That's why he doesn't get any hate like others who are critical of the world. I don't think some Christians deserve to get it from the world and other Christians too. It's alienating. I'm not saying he or anyone shouldn't be critical, just that he should do it with love and grace and be less extreme as you said. Like P&M🤗
Spencer’s ministry is marked by condemnation, legalism and a divisive spirit. Any Christian who doesn’t share his theological views is an apparent heathen so I don’t give his opinions much weight 🙄
I agree with Spencer on some thing but I do think in many situations he borders the line of Accusing the brethren. That’s the job of satan yes righteous judgments but let’s not condemn each other to hell
i do 100% love how direct Spencer is. that being said, i think he makes a lot of claims without actually using examples or finding information to support them. it’s ok to be direct & call fellow believers our, it’s not ok to make claims without backing them up.
Spencer Smith needs to watch himself he is a dangerous line Remember that God exhales the humble and the prideful he humbles Spencer Smith is a modern day pharisess with his doctrine matters and exalts his therioes and opinion above the word of God he infact does twist words and takes thing way way way to far
I'm so tired of Christians publicly bashing other christians. It's not very concruent to building up the unity of the body of Christ. Christians, please stop using other christians to build your platform up. The world is laughing at us because of guys like Spencer. If you have an opinion about another believer, keep it to yourself. I will not be going to his channel, I will not be subbing to his page. These are artists, who make beautiful music, that try to bring people closer to God. I guess guys like Spencer can only go after other christians because most of us are soft targets. I dare him to go after brothers like the guys @ Southside rabbi and see how far his "doctrine" gets him. I'll say it again, I'm not impressed with any believer that profits off the tearing down of other believers.
I think contemporary music sounds too worldly. Basically we should not mimic the world or try to mimic the world. For this reason I am very strict on the music is listen to. It’s got to have God glorifying lyrics, and not sound like music you hear on the worldly radio stations. I don’t know if I agree with everything Spencer said but that’s just my contemporary music take lol
If someone accused me of not being a christian.. I wouldnt be offended but really check what I've believed.. spencer isnt trying to insult you, check what you believe
Raising the dead is the sign of an apostle and I think Jesus did it to show who He was and His power over the grave. I grew up wondering why churches dont see or even ask for healings but I recently learned that the reason so many healings took place around the apostles was that it was a sign that they were sent by Christ and it was a sign that they should be listened to. God still heals but not at the will of man. Bill Johnson is called an apostle by some but he is not, he would love to give us a reason to think he is though.
I told Spencer in his comment section that he needs clearly show in scripture why people are off. Spencer answered me. He told me that I was a heathen and that he could not help me. 😕
What? I’m so so sorry. That’s uncalled for. Your comment doesn’t make you a heathen. You’re comment is the truth. Please don’t listen to him. You’re not a heathen.
@@tyeishaleisure thanks for your concern. I have the assurance of my salvation. Spencer or anyone for that matter telling me I am a heathen does not trouble me.
@@fff8947 you’re welcome and good for you. This very thing is why I unsubscribed from him. He’s one to be marked and avoid it 100%. Sadly you’re not the first person he’s treated this way. While I was subscribed to him, he bullied a 17 year old girl in the comments. He was also sexist towards a subscriber that he assumed was a woman. When me and a few other people called him out for the way he treated this person, he ended up deleting her comment and blocking her. No matter what his followers say, he is hateful and someone to be ignored. He does nothing for the body of Christ whatsoever. Anyone who disagrees with him are condemned to hell by him. This video is a good example as he said that those who listen to music outside of hymns Will go to hell. Those commenting on this video here saying that Paul and Morgan should go watch his third Adam video and do their own search or go watch his videos are his followers who will defend him no matter what, even if he’s wrong. They worship him and are absolutely toxic. He doesn’t except rebuke, correction, or criticism even if it’s done in a loving respectful way. His mentality is he is right and everyone else is wrong.
@@tyeishaleisure what I don't get is he plays horrible music and his followers all tell him how great it is. There is a problem with much of the music that is said to be christian today. I believe we are in the last of the last days and need to be careful what we listen to and what we watch. We live in evil times and need to be discerning and live lives that are set apart. A lot of what Spencer says is correct but at this point he seems to demonize everyone.
@@fff8947 agree. I’m someone who is extremely careful with who I listen to, and I have come across a lot of bad music, but I don’t demonize everyone. There is also good music and artists, and yes, the music he plays is absolutely awful. I tried the app he always recommends, and the musicput me to sleep. Every song sounds the same, and most of the songs didn’t mention Jesus by name, a complaint he has with modern Christian music. For as much as he criticizes modern Christian music, his alternative has the same problem. I listened for an hour, and maybe only 3 songs mention Jesus. Most songs were essentially love songs. And all the artists were the stereotypical southern artists with strong southern accents. The music wasn’t the least bit edifying or anything you can worship to. Every song was slow and use the same instruments which meant that one song bled in to the next. There’s absolutely no distinction between songs. And to be clear, my harshness towards him has nothing to do with idolizing these artists. It has to do with what I saw while subscribed to him which wasn’t anything that makes me want to care about anything he says even if he’s right about some things or praise him in any way. There’s a difference between raising concerns and what he does, and being subscribed to him was not a pleasant experience. The environment he has created on his channel is extremely toxic and I myself was attack by one of his followers and accused of trying to have authority over him for asking a simple question along with stating my opinion which was not in his favor. In case that accusation doesn’t make any sense, I’m a woman. That’s why I said in my previous comment that he should be 100% marked and avoided and that he does nothing for the body of Christ. Just wanted to make that clear, because idolizing these artists is the first accusation i’d get from one of his subscribers if they saw my comments here and because I realize I probably came off really harsh and negative in my previous comments.
I am a Christian artist, and have been struggling with the money making aspect and the style, as I like metal and radio friendly; and I also love the hymns so very much. But I have noticed a movement in the mainstream industry for money, and not worship. We need to have grace because we do not know these artists personally, or how their love for Truth may exist. Calling out someone is not a good idea unless they show actual obvious hatred towards God, and seem to love money in Gods place.
Independent Baptists (and Landmark Missionary Baptists, which I am) do believe that the gifts of the Spirit, except for faith, hope, and love, ceased whenever the Bible was complete (1 Corinthians 13).
Is it just me but the moment I see more criticism than praise and more emphasis on doctrine than people it reminds me of the pharisees. Idk who this guy is but I know one thing for sure name calling is not part of any doctrine in the bible. Also Jesus says by love people will know that you are my disciples, lol that whole video had barely any ounce of love for people. Just saying 👀
I believe Paul was often referring to the local church dealing with their own flock in terms of judgment. I do think some need to be called out don’t get me wrong. But I see so many Christians taking on this stand against other Christians and leaders around the world who they don’t know personally, to make judgment calls on. Why is it so easy? Because it’s not done at a local level. There’s no accountability for the people who make constant videos like that. And let’s face it. You get more views being critical than exhorting one another in love and good works. The amount of exposing videos speak for themselves when u search up specific leaders or Christian artists. I’d be careful not to focus so much on correction when they are not even personally connected with who they are talking about. To me it is a weird concept to publicise so much judgment or to ‘expose’ people. Imagine if you had a situation with someone in your church and instead of sorting it out with each other and the leadership personally, they blast it on RUclips.
I love tobymac’s music it’s been very encouraging to me and points me back to God a lot I think his theology is very accurate in his songs and the truth he speaks in them compared to some other artists is so encouraging and admirable Hearing him be called a heathen was very weird as I look up to him a lot bc of all that I’ve learned and the spiritual truths I’ve been reminded of from his music 🤷🏼♀️
@@equineblessed An album cover doesn't reveal Toby's walk with God since God doesn't look at the outward appearances,He looks at the heart but I do kinda agree that his album covers are creepy.
@@camillegodwin6398 no he doesn’t. And he took that clip completely out of context. Someone who actually went and saw the movie said that every clip used in the video was taken out of context. He hates CCM and goes to any length he has to to show that it is bad and demonic. He only likes the hymns.
I’m not conservative I’m a leftist but does anyone want me to make a playlist of songs that are clean? Lol I’m just bored and I thought some of you guys who don’t like explicit music would like a playlist of music you can listen to
I have called out plenty of Christian artists on things before lecrae being one of them however I don’t think the things he talked about in those clips validates calling any of them a heathen.
Friendship with the world is enmity against God. A friend of the world is an enemy of God. James 4:4 Does that sound like a heathen or a Christian? Christians came to this land to protest (Protestants) against Catholicism. Catholicism deleted the second commandment and divided the tenth commandment to make two separate ones. Does this sound like something a Christian or a heathen would embrace?
jn 11. Lazarus raised from the dead is (a picture of a lost person getting saved and in their right mind) We Christians do not have the power to do as Jesus did today as pertaining to the 4 Gospels. Jesus gave his 12 apostles power to work miracles in (Israel) For the jews require a sign 1 cor 1:22 to heal the sick raise the dead or if you drink poison it wont hurt you or if you pick um a snake you won't get hurt notice here. Jesus to the 12 apostles mark 16; 17- 18 And "these signs" shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Morgan you stated we have the ability to do what Jesus did but if you're siding with bethel that we supposedly can raise people from the dead; look at mark 16;17 again because nobody can pick a sign because if you have one sign you got them all signs* plural it was for a specific time. for a specific purpose. for a specific group of people If i can use myself as an example I was born with Cerebral Palsy . I can't walk. I use a motorized wheelchair to get around But given my position doesn't give a pastor or a congregation the ability to Force God's healing power on me. God's gonna make you walk James i feel it I've had people tell me that, or tell me I had a vision of you walking what's happening here is These sign Churches are trying to replace Israel (Physical kingdom) The church (spiritual kingdom) we walk by faith not by "sight" 2 Corinthians 5:7 KJV They want the signs and gifts and lying wonders- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9 and the thing is these churches dont separate Historical doctrines from spiritual applications Are you familiar with Acts 3: the lame man? acts 3; 1 kjv - Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour. 2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple; 3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms. 4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us. 5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them. 6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk. 7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength. 8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. This right here is a lost man now is saved and in Christ and its all throughout The Gospels, There was no almost or might get healed with Jesus. All we're healed. the woman at the well John 4. The blind man John 9, The woman with the issue of blood 12 years mark 5 the demon possessed is all a picture of a lost man trusting Jesus Spiritual application to Christians today even Paul sought the Lord three times to remove the thorn in the flesh but He said my grace is sufficiant 2corithians 12;9 my strength is made perfect in weakness So what does that mean? GOD DIDNT answer paul to keep him humble and to rely on Him And its for the same reason that i'm in my position The Lord dosent promise healing. He promises Heaven Ephesians 1:13-14 King James Version In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. And the "Greater works" is that The Gospel is preached to everyone The Death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 We all can do that Lord bless you
The thing I will never understand is that the ones accusing others of judging when they tell the truth are in fact the harshest judges. Spencer Smith is straightforward, which is what the church needs today. Another thing: why is he receiving more flak for being truthful than the other apologists on RUclips saying the same thing? Could it be that the don't judge crowd just dislikes if not downright hates Independent Baptists?
You hit on something that raised a concern for me… “maybe they (Christian artist) wrote them to sell records… I think that is where most contemporary Christian artist are trying to get to. To sell records and not praying for an anointed song or album. Now I believe good positive music for Christians to enjoy is important, and for our entertainment. I see nothing wrong with that. But there is the dilemma for me, does it lift up and edify? Is it anointed? Churches have a tendency to have their worship service look like a night club… mmmm. I don’t think that is right either. Be in the world not of the world… however, I do agree you cannot take one statement and call someone a heathen. I just know as long as it doesn’t contradict the Word… I think we are good. Watch their life, are they living a life that is above reproach?
I just found your channel and love it. I agree with Spencer on doctrinal issues but I think he can be way to harsh on people at the expense for a financial profit. He should not be calling people heathens simply because he is not God. The Apostle Paul never referred to even the Corinthians as heathens when they were in sin. He would LOVINGLY correct them and exhort them in their walk. He just did a video about his attendance at a Phil Wickham concert and blasted him as well. We need to be discerning of course but should we come right out calling all of them heathens?
I agree and believe it is not our place to call people heathens or publicly call their faith into question. To me, that is putting yourself on a pedestal and an attempt to take on a role that we can't have. All we can do is look at someone's outer appearance, we can't know someone's true heart. Only God knows that. I think Spencer would call out Jesus Christ himself if he was on earth today, and I think heaven is full of people he'd call "heathens."
Idk what’s going on with the artists but I do wonder why you’d do a video without doing some research on some of these artists. You’re just responding to a video without doing your own research? Not very helpful to me…
I think you both did a good job with this video! U brought up a lot of valid points. I personally don’t like Spenser Smiths videos and how he is so critical of others he don’t agree with. Spenser Smith comes across like a Pharisee to me.
Exactly. That’s why I unsubscribed from him after 7 months. It’s one thing to close out error and heresy, true error and heresy that doesn’t require taking video clips and statement out of context, but it’s another thing to call out people based on your hate for a genre of music that no one is forcing you to listen to. Is there some Bad modern Christian music? Yes, but that’s no excuse to be a bully. Spencer Miss throws rover like heathen and heretic without any proof other than what college the artist attended is reckless, andthis is just one example of many problems with Spencer Smith.
I mean there is a line. Someone like out rolling on the floor and acting like a crazy person, is probably not filled with the Holy Spirit. They are likely possessed or putting on a show. That being said, sometimes the spirit hits you and you hit the floor, and I have seen some people fall in fits of giggles from being filled with joy from the spirit, but it is always in a manner that allows for self control. It is never "wild" or chaotic or out of control. (Though I guess to a person unaccustomed to such things may see it that way if it's unexpected.)
@@live_unafraid47 why is the Spirit hitting you? There is only one baptism and as far as bible accounts of people getting saved, didn’t read anything about giggling either very loud or quietly on the floor. Some do fall down on their faces in reverence or sorrow like Paul and the woman with the issue of blood. Yes, People proclaim his name in joy for the awaited Messiah, who forgives sin. Idk how you can feel like giggling when you realize you’re a sinner faced before a holy God. Please check what Spirit that is.
Who are you guys to say this is too much? Did not Jesus call some Jews "sons of Satan"? A spirit of unity in supporting doctrinal unity in the fundamentals of scripture may be more effective, even if you are not personally comfortable with a final label.
Fam, do you think Spencer’s criticisms were too harsh or do you agree with them? Next 30 people to become $5 or more Patrons will receive stickers and a signed pic with a note on the back!❤️
www.patreon.com/paulandmorganshow
Wow yes! Very harsh😳
I like the guy. Livestream every thursday at 9pm. Bible study current events and giveaways
Stop by the livestream tonight; all welcome!
And that is heathern; with an “r” if your wondering
He’s way off, and people need to stop listening to this guy.
Spencer Smith is a pastor and missionary. He's also a Bible believing Christian. He knows his stuff and I agree with him completely. Contemporary Christian music today isn't what it once was. Some of these "artists" have major doctrinal issues. I have no problem with Smith calling them out. Lauren Daigle is a CCM artist but won't mention Jesus during secular interviews. Why? Ashamed of Him? Don't call yourself a Christian if you're ashamed of Jesus.
I disagree
@@samburleson4575 Okay.
Amen Brother!
Lauren Daigle is a practicing witch. She's no Christ-follower.
Amen. When you come out of the occult-newage you can't help but to see this. Thank you God for saving me. The enemy can be so deceiving.
I never fail to be edified when listening to Spencer. Yes, he sometimes takes a sledgehammer to a nut, but we are living in a time of hardened hearts - particularly amongst professing Christians.
I was deep in Word of Faith for 11 years. When I came out of that, Spencer was the ONLY person I could find that would help me with my biblical questions. His documentary, Third Adam, opened my eyes to so many issues going wrong in the body of Christ. There are so many people being led astray by Bethel, Hillsong, and Elevation. Understanding that CCM is just another genre of entertainment in music was a hard reality for me to wake up to. There are no requirements for salvation in CCM.
Spencer is trying to reach the ones who are searching, and he realizes that you can’t do that by walking the middle line. The problem is that too many people think calling out these artists is not loving. The reality is that calling them out is loving the body of Christ according to the Bible. I would also recommend doing research into CCM. The music itself tends to be what the Bible would call pagan. You guys really need to do research because Jesus Christ would have called these people out. Paul called out false teachers by name.
Also, doing greater things means after He has risen, believers would be able to go out and witness with the Holy Spirit. Anyone who thinks they can do anything greater than Jesus is falling prey to the little gods doctrine. My eyes were opened to this after I left Word of Faith.
I am all for being loving, but there is a hard line being drawn right now. I pray that you guys use discernment and biblical truth to determine which side you end up on. God bless. 💕🙏🏻
Interesting perspective :)
@@PaulandMorgan Thank you! I have done a LOT of research, and biblical study over these things myself. People do not realize how spiritually abusive Word of Faith and other movements are. It’s why my husband and I started a support group. God bless you and your ministry!
Exactly right! You can speak the truth in love but you need to speak the truth. You can't go soft on heresy--particularity when these artists are heretical. Simply said--the church is lazy. It's asleep in the light.
I've been deep in the word of faith for 40 years and it's been a blessing to me. I've done lots of videos on the subject if you want to check them out. Many people have misconceptions about what word of faith is. Maybe your issues aren't with Word of Faith theology but with the error and extremism on the edges of the movement.
@@JewandGreek I know exactly what Word of Faith is. I lived in it for 11 years, and I believe to understand it, people need to understand its origins. I have done too much research on that subject to debate it in a RUclips thread. I have seen a few of your videos. At one time, I would have agreed with a lot of things you have to say.
However, my issues with Word of Faith are just as much with the doctrine as the spiritual abuse that comes along with it. I don’t doubt that you have been blessed by it because I don’t think God is limited by anyone or anything (especially humanity’s shortcomings.)
God bless!
I do disagree with Spencer on some things, but I appreciate that one of his biggest struggles when he got saved was music.
I know that he has a passion for the holiness of God and for people to be saved. I have seen him get teared up, because of genuine concern for people's salvation, so I think his passion coupled with his strong personality can come over as harsh, which can push people away.
His content has however been a great blessing to me. I have been bed bound with severe Lupus for 3 years and his live streams always brings my focus back to God!
That’s really cool insight, thanks for sharing🙏
See ya thursday sister
@Almera Du Pissani that gives me alot of hope. Your testimony I mean. I love Spencer. He's one of the best blessings to me. I dont agree with everything. But sometimes being harsh is the best way.
I agree with you I do sub to his channel an a few channels that are reformed or Fundamentalist in their beliefs.
Also watch Booby Schuller. He is really good teacher and encourager 😊
Spencer Smith's videos have helped teach me how to discern truth and error tremendously.
I like Spencer's Videos. And his documentary about the third Adam series. It's helped me a lot. I use to listen to Hillsong and Bethel's music. I didn't realize that there are so many Christian bands and music out there that are biblical. The modern post, Christ our life, selah, and city alight. Bill Johnson's church is defiantly demonic and so is his Hillsong. Benny Hin Ministries and Elevation church. I think it's very important who we listen to. We can support small church's that are writing their own music or bands. Just because they say there, Christian. That doesn't mean they are. We should know them by their fruit. Are they conforming to the world. Supporting abortion and the LGBTQ. Are they encouraging their fans to live for Jesus.
Appreciate you sharing :)
The Florida Boys were a great gospel group. " when he was on the cross I was on his mind"
definitely agree!
Bethel is not demonic. They have reached a new level in the glory. And of course they would be criticized for it .
@@melanieschlageter amen! Why should you judge a church who helps people worship Jesus & makes their relationship with him stronger! May not work for you but it might work for others ☺️
Spencer Smith is right! I've been in ministry and church my whole life, been in dozens of churches and yes what he is saying is true. Modern CCM is the golden calf of the modern evangelical church.
Before I listened to Spencer I was a schizophrenia christian! We really need more people like Spencer....We all need to stop sitting on the fence....no time for being a part of the world...There is a big difference between what is right and what is almost right!!
John Stamp, no, we need more people like Jesus. The church is full of religious people who are fault finders. There's no shortage of those, but you know what? Fault finding and accusatory comments don't lead to repentance. It's one thing to correct a brother or sister in the Lord who happens to be in error but calling them a heathen is hefty indictment and if I were Spencer I would be careful about throwing a label like that around. And another thing, his tone sounded a bit like one of contempt and he might want to examine his own heart when making comments about other people. I'm not a Toby fan but I am a fan of some contemporary Christian music ,but I'm also big fan of old Southern gospel music too. I'm just saying that if we're going to hold each other accountable (and I believe that accountability is vital to the Church), then we need to do it in a loving way and not in scathing one. By the way, I agree. The church does need to stop sitting on the fence. We can do that by doing a Jesus told us to do.
@@spottedsaint957 totally agree with you we do need more people like Jesus...I guess the bottom line is How Holy do people regard God as, I think if we could get that right then we will be less tolerable of Sin in the Christian circles...I am not a big fan of any christian or worldly music at this moment as I have only just come out of the Bethel circles and am hesitant on what is doctrinally correct at the moment. I was gullable to what was out there and took a sip of the devils cup Never Again!!! I no longer listen to spencer, however he does have a part to play...If it wasnt for him highlighting certain things I dont think I would be free from all the garbage out there. I was all about love and not judging...it got me sucked in to wrong doctrine. Anyway the bottom line is I will stick to the bible nothing less, nothing more!
@@johnstamp7736 Just stick to the scriptures and stay in prayer. Some of the "ministers" on RUclips aren't necessarily the ones that you need to listen to. If you attend a particular church and are certain that you can trust your pastor, then he's pretty much your spiritual leader and authority figure. I don't worry about music so much, but the message being taught in the church that I attend matters a lot. That's the main factor that determines on whether or not I continue attending that particular church or not. More so than the style of worship.
I love Spencer’s videos!! Really opened my eyes on the corruption in churches and in so called Christian music.
🙂
Same here! He has helped me to mature immensely. It's not always easy to hear, but it leads me to examine my heart and read the word of God. God bless you, sister.
Praise the Lord for Spencer Smith!! It takes boldness to earnestly contend for the faith. Please watch the third Adam series!!
Spencer is a cult leader who calculated that he can gain viewers by lying and exaggerating on the sins of others. He is a whitewashed tomb . Run and don’t look back as he will drag many away from Jesus Christ.
Watch what the Mormons do and your going to understand Spencer . Everyone is lost as far as mormons are concerned and if anyone is a Christian it’s not good enough for Spencer. Spencer thinks that he is an authority on matters, he hides in his own religious talk to disguise his own religion .
@@241Tsunami So what is your religion. Tell us all so we can learn from you, you fancy yourself an expert on calling someone a "cult leader."
@@raymatthews4319 he doesn’t understand that Spencer is just calling people out over their fruits and doctrinal identity. He can’t grasp that concept. The Bible states that there must be fruits if you are born again. And not just helping people come to know Christ and spreading the Gospel, but also in your own life. 1 John is a good example of the fruits we must bare. Laid out plain and simple. The changes we make in our lives, turning and repenting and not practicing sin matters just as much as spreading the word. You can’t claim to be Christian and then do things that aren’t in the word, and then not repent of those things. People don’t get that concept for some reason.
The Third Adam series is great.
@@raywoodfin6465Third Adam sucks.
Who says Christian music has to be "old?" It can be "new" but it must be TRUE!
@@mary-elizabetharndt jei am the same yesterday today and forever is what God said
Spencer shows true concerns about some people or certain churches but he is way too harsh and condemning. It totally discredits what he says. We can stand firm on scripture while still being loving and gracious like you guys. 👍
Appreciate the insight, Austin. I agree he seemed overly harsh.
I agree. He is one of the few that I had to tell RUclips to not recommend because last April his video titles seemed to be going in the direction that the jab is the mark of the beast.
@@markmoore8399 He said that the Jab IS NOT the mark of the Beast.
If you don't like harsh and condemning then you'd hate Jesus
@@CLM1987 Came here to say the same thing.
Wow y'all pretty much called Spencer out and then just reiterated everything that he has said. Bethel and Hillsong are insane and if you can't see that then you need help. These people are definitely not Christians and although I don't agree with everything Spencer Smith says he is on the money 99% of the time
This people don't know what they talking about.
@@dannyloki2042Gaslighting again Huh? No proof
"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." - Proverbs 18:13
Go watch Third Adam!
Chill bro!
What does that even mean?
Amen
Spencer Smith, that’s not a good rebuttal: quoting a scripture. If they said something inaccurate correct them. Let’s not play mystery games; makes you look petty
Hey Spencer, appreciate the comment. Did we say something inaccurate? What are you referring to?
Yes, Spencer is a Independent Baptist, and KJV only. I watch all his videos and documentary's. I agree with him 95% of the time.
And a Cessationist and also kind of a Calvinist.
To be honest, for me everytime I hear him speak I get confusion and no peace. To me that's a WARNING bell. We need to ask Holy Spirit who is in us to help us and to convict us on what we hear to be truthful. We should be getting guidance from him and not from someone's critical opinion. We need to be careful in what we say because I believe that every word we speak gets recorded.
Agreed
I agree. I am generally of the same opinion Spencer smith has but of course i dont agree on everyhing but the thing is that his exposing videos turn into kinda mocking, pridefull, sensational videos. His behaviour seems rather presumptuous than caring
The fact that you refer to the Holy Spirit minus the definitive article tells a lot.
@@dv4740 Yes I do not like the way he edits his videos to make it seem creepy and demonic; if it was truly demonic he would not have to do special editing to make it appear that way.
AMEN 🙏🙏🙏
If you have studied the contemporary Christian movement all the way back to its beginning to the extent Spencer has, you are truly a born again Christian and have a hunger for the truth, you will know that he is preaching the uncompromising Word of God. I have been saved since 1983, eight years before you were born and got into the contemporary Christian movement because it appealed to my “flesh” and the life of sin the Lord brought me out of. At the age of 16, I left my boring Christian upbringing. I turned to the world…fun, friends, parties, alcohol, drugs, sex and rock n roll music and at 18, the night clubs. After 10 more years of seeing many of my friends killed in car crashes because of drinking and drugs, I began searching for purpose in life. The Lord led a childhood friend and ex roommate who had been “born again” into my life. The Lord saved me and I was totally changed instantly. I had a hunger to read the Bible and the words were life to me. The church I was saved in began to shift to the “charismatic” movement. Every time I would read the Bible, the Lord would speak to me “do not be deceived”…”many false prophets will come and deceived many”. The pastor began to do “new things”. He finally told us we no longer need to read our Bible because God had “called” him to “lead” us. I left that church immediately. He then became an “self-ordained” Apostle, not “Pastor”. Please be careful to judge someone or something only by God’s Holy Word. We are command to “study to show thy self approved unto God”. We are living in the last hour and the Bible warns us “many” will be deceived. I have been studying God’s Holy Word for 40 years and have watched the “church” become deceived through the lust of the flesh and the pride of life. Brother Spencer has opened my eyes to truth through hours, months and years of research. Though research I have found that the majority of “Christian” praise is nothing more than “Christian” entertainment, handled by the same managers of the secular bands. The bottom line is money…for the “love of money” is the roots of all evil…for not everyone who says Lord, Lord is of God. We cannot know God if we do not know His Word. We are commanded by God to “be ye Holy…for I am Holy”. Research these things for yourself and allow God to reveal the truth to you.
I think the problem is we treat these music artists like pastors. If we realize that they are not we can just appreciate the worship music as long as the lyrical excellence is in alignment with the God of the Bible.
That’s a fair point😊
Yes! This is what I believe.
@@PaulandMorgan I disagree. See my comment on the backbeat.
Problem is when the majority of musicians are not in alignment, and that our Bible-illiterate, church-going youth are exposed to it far more often than biblical text.
@@PaulandMorgan its not that I have a specific issue with you. But giving such a generic answer back is sometimes frustrating because of the simple fact that you are not actually listening. You put time and thought to putting all this into a video and when you realize how innaccurate it is you give such a generic answer as if you have no consequences for what you say.
Spencer Smith knows what he is talking about. The church is falling away into the great apostasy !
Yep
Spencer is apart of the IFB cult and also believes in cessationism which is a satanic false doctrine
Lovingly,
1. If they claim to be a Christian artist & never mention Jesus in their music then that’s a red flag. If it’s claiming to be a Christian song / album. Because then it just sounds like a love song or a worship song in which we do not know who it is directed to.
2. God is mentioned in Ruth and Esther.
Appreciate you sharing :)
While I agree with a lot of what Spencer Smith says, what bothers me is when he at time, judges and condems people without truly knowing what they believe. And if you disagree look out, from him and some of his followers. It is one thing when Pastors clearly teach things against the Bible, a whole other thing to go after people like he did with people in this video and others even more recently.
Yes exactly. That Phil Wickham video was absolutely vile. It thankfully got removed, but this wasn’t something that should have happened to begin with.
John the Baptist, Paul the Apostle and of course the King, Jesus Christ said many direct and sharp things to those who needed to hear it. Sensitivity in this culture is rampant and it’s not biblical. Not everyone who says they are a Christian is actually a Christian.
As a worship leader at my church, there's a point in listening to the voice of God, and noticing when "worship songs" aren't exactly biblically accurate.
When I feel convicted that a song I've sung is leading people the wrong way, I will stop singing it all together, and it offends a lot of people. I love contemporary music, some of the artists are not necessarily always writing completely biblically accurate correct songs, and as a worship leader, I cannot still sing those songs. At least that is what I've been convicted to do.
That being said, "we all fall short of the glory of God." I think it was very rude and harsh the way Spencer attacked these musicians. They might not have realized their words could've been taken in a way not meant. And to call them heathens?????
Just very ungodly in my opinion. Because Christ says we are to go about correction with mercy, love and gentleness.
😊
Just got back from his livestream. I do think Pastor Smith has a real passion for the lost and is concerned for the church not being separated from the world as it ought to be. That’s been the biggest struggle for many fundamentalists for years. I do hope that you can push past his demeanor and realize that the lack of doctrine that these artists have led to their apostasy. Please don’t put him in a completely negative light. God bless you.
Appreciate the perspective, Ethan :)
He does make good points however I think he leans so far fundamentalist that he’s in legalistic territory. We should be different from the world but if we’re separated from it, how is the world to receive the gospel?
@@rissroo4325 we can reach out to people with the Gospel without stopping to the level of the world. The reason why Pastor Smith puts emphasis on separation is not because of legalism, but because he values the Word of God and sound doctrine. He isn’t a legalist because he doesn’t add to what God says. I believe that you’ll find the Roman Catholic Church to be an example of a legalistic church due to their many traditions and extra biblical practices. To be different from the world and to be separate from it are two different things: the former signifies standing out and probably setting trends whereas the latter focuses on the exercise of personal righteousness by not indulging in the sinful things of the world. Please understand the difference in them. God bless.
@@ethankaryadi37 I've followed Spencer for a while now. I understand and fully agree with him that followers of Christ need to be separate from the world...and in full agreement in his stance against ecumenism. However, Spencer's personality is what truly grates on people. I don't even think bull in a China shop does the description any justice. His livestreams are devoid of love. He seems ro be spending more time with promoting his "merch" and book "Doctrine Matters" than expressing any form of love to his neighbor. Yes, we are in perilous times, but beating a tired or scared horse will only make them run from the battle, not towards it.
@@ethankaryadi37 People love crying "legalism" when Spencer and others call out false doctrine. Yet they are strangely silent when it comes to false cults which do practice legalism. Is it just me or do I detect hypocrisy from them?
I believe Lauren Daigle won’t take a stance on gay marriage which has sort of put me off of her :/
🙏
Truth
I agree with Missionary Spencer Smith Completely. Most Contemporary So called Christian Music today has very little scripture or Gospel. Most never mention Jesus, The Cross and are only Spiritual Mysticism.
Dear Paul and Morgan, I do not agree with everything Spencer has said. Yet he is someone I will go up to bat for. I know him pretty well and the man may as well have saved my life and my little sister from an abusive situation. Thats why its personal for me. But I will make this comment as unbiased as possible. Y'all spoke without even watching many of his videos. You said that based on his critiques about Toby Mac you could say he was harsh and that he should've said more. He has in the past. If you watched his videos such as Third Adam 1. You would understand his stance here. He is a Independant Fundamental Baptist and quite frankly he's one of the reasons why I am even still here. So its foolish of you to speak before you even know him. I respect your opinions and you have valid claims if Spencer was lying. But since Spencer has valid claims because he has proof and I do as well it makes yalls claims invalid. Spencer is not speaking out of turn or being harsh. He's using the scripture and trying to live by it. It says to mark false teachers and it says that the Bible is a sharp two edged sword and sometimes that sword cuts and it hurts a great deal. But we all need that sword to hurt and cut out the bad things in our life. That includes music that is worldly. When music sounds like the world its bad. Music should be set apart. Those beats you hear in ccm and modern day music come from tribes back in Africa or native Americans when they were worshipping pagan gods. Im sorry but music as well as doctrine you cant be nice and compromise. You have to show tough love and resist false doctrine.
You said it’s foolish of them to speak before they even know him? But Spencer is also doing the same thing and calling these worshippers out as heathens. I came to know God from hearing a lot of this sound. Hillsong to be exact as they had televised their church. No Christian background what so ever in my life, But I experienced the Holy Spirit which I didn’t know at the time. So when I see people who dismiss other believers, I find it sad and also glad that I never saw a lot of these comments new in my faith. What a sad reality we now live.
@@Teremoanabrockbank what I meant by Paul and Morgan not knowing Spencer is that I mean that they have not watched all of his videos. They dont have any background on his channel. You say Spencer is doing the same thing with people like Hillsong. No he isnt. He has done interviews with them. He has read what they say and Im sorry but what they say is so heretical. So therefore what you said there was invalid because of the fact that spencer actually gets his facts straight. Paul and Morgan here have baseless claims.
I understand you have your experience with Hillsong. But people can be saved in spite of that. Just like a catholic who is saved is saved in spite of catholicism.
Ooh love you guys and Brother Spencer and his Livestreams every thursday night. He stands firm on the Bible and the fundamentals and that why Liberal so called progressives hate him.
😊😊
I’m conservative and I use to listen to this dude. Trust me I found real discernment in the Word of God and found out how Cessationism denies God’s power. As stated in 2 Timothy 3, They have a form of Godliness but deny the power.
I agree with Spencer Smith. I believe he speaks the truth and most people love their music more than they love Christ Jesus.
Agree
I really try to be careful about what Christian music I listen too (I don’t listen to Bethel, Hillsong, or Elevation) but personally I really enjoy TobyMacs music. My dad has listened since DC Talk’s early days so I just grew up hearing his stuff. I think his songs aren’t always “deeply theological” but he isn’t a worship collective or church affiliated band, he is a Christian pop artist and I do think there is a difference. He is not representing a church and their theological position/specific doctrines, I don’t really remember ever seeing anything alarming coming from him. I agree he is pretty safe. Just seeing how he has dealt with the death of his son and how he has still glorified God through it all is really telling to me.
Appreciate you sharing🙏
I don't mind Spencer being a bit harsh at times but when you call someone a heathen you better be able to back it up.
🙏🙏
Don’t you understand that Bethel and Bill Johnson and those associated with them don’t even believe that Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time. (Kenosis)
As someone who has followed TobyMac for years, I can say his lyrics and his message bear fruit, even moreso than a lot of other popular artists today. I think Spencer is guilty of what we all are tempted to do: Judge people who are held on a pedestal more harshly than we judge other people or even ourselves.
As for Toby, I encourage people to check out his live performance of 21 Years, or any other song in that concert. So much of his message is uplifting and glorifying to God without negating the hardships of life.
Exactly, I always look out for lyrics if they're based on Scripture, if so, I really dont care who sang it first cause I'm singing it now unto God
I believe that Heaven is packed with people that Spencer would call heathens. It is not our place to call other people heathens. We are created beings, called to be humble and kind to one another. All we can do is look at someone's outer appearance, but God looks at the heart. Only he knows what is in people's hearts, and Jesus showed that he was more forgiving than we humans are.
I watch Spencer’s videos and they helped me a lot when I was healing from the hypercharismatic nonsense. Because of all the twisting of Scriptures and harm done, I’ve become a cessationist. I believe God can do miracles if He so pleases for His glory but not that it is orchestrated by man nor that it is common. This is where I had to come to based off my own reading of the Bible and through my own healing process. I don’t have anything to do with Bethel or IHOP or any other house of prayer type dominion theology heresy. I used to love Kari Jobe, but her support of these cults has made me have to leave her behind in all the garbage. If she supports false theology then it will be in her music, too.
Spencer Smith has many videos on people who have openly admitted to deconstruction and turning to more progressive worldly “Christianity” so he may have earlier videos building up to this one. I don’t agree 100% with what Spencer believes (and he does a lot of name calling) but I certainly pay more attention to what music I listen to. And I agree that we should use the Bible (in context) to weigh things. I’m still getting there but I’ve been out of the false movement/cult/whatever you want to call it longer than you guys. It took me awhile to get where I got and it was through reading my Bible. I left the church completely for some time before coming back. It’s so sad to see that these false movements and cults strip people of any view of God and turn them toward the world. I’m so glad to see you guys so fresh out and not abandoning God. Sadly, some of my family have gone to worldly religion or atheism because of it and I almost did, also.
It’s horrifying to me that someone calls praying for a miracle from God “demonic” and “demented”
Blaspheming the Holy Spirit?? Spencer is walking on very thin ice.
Cessationalism
The Bible is very clear about not testing God and that’s exactly what these people did by demanding God to resuscitate someone who passed away. It’s pretty clear to me he had already given his authority by allowing the girl to pass away. Someone might ask well didn’t Jesus did it in the Bible? That’s right JESUS did not any human. @lindsay smith
These "discernment" ministry people have the sin of pride. A lot of what they push as biblical is just 1950s American culture stuff. Evangelical fundamentalism that is 100% American. As someone that isn't American I see it clearly
they were not praying but decreeing and declairing, that is not prayer
Spencer Smith shares Biblical Truth. Third Adam series will educate and save your soul!!!!!
Truth
I've personally known people like Spencer. I have no time for it. Thats too much. I could think of a bunch of other artists that are ACTUALLY HEATHENS LOL. To be so harsh on Tobymac?? The dude lost his son and sister I believe? I think Spencer needs to check his own heart. Jesus is gonna be like " why were you so harsh on my children? " judging Christians so harshly is a serious thing. At least I think so. At the end of the day ( end of our lives ) its just us and God. He doesn't want to hear about those other " Heathens " He wants to know how you treated them..
I'm not sure about Toby Mac, but I know that Kari Jobe has brought in a lot of the dominion theology into her music (I'd say the same about Skillet too). I really used to love her old music. Michael W Smith was in one of Darren Wilson's Holy Ghost movies and he definitely believes in some strange things. It's been a few years so I can't remember specifics right now.
😗
Let's not forget that while we enjoy our contemporary Christian artists, they are also trying to reach those that are not saved as well.
When I first became a Christian, my Mom had me throw away all my secular music...ALL of it. I did NOT like the kind of hymns she listened to. I have a passion for music & I was left with nothing I enjoyed. Then I went to a church service that had a musical guest. It was the Darrel Mansfield band. Now we're talking. I found an area of music that was now acceptable for me as a Christian. As I went into DC Talk and more what I realized was my Christian ears just need "wholesome" music. I needed music that didn't speak of sex, and the devil and those things that were not of God. So if any song gets put out by a Christian artist...as long at it doesn't have an invitation to sin in it, I can listen to it. There are ppl who hear Christian artists that are not Christian yet, but can Identify with the music & the more they listen and know this artist is a Christian, hopefully they can evaluate where they are in life and be drawn to the Giver of Life.
I love Spencer’s videos! He has blessed me with his content! He is an independent fundamental Baptist! I am more reformed in my theology, but I appreciate his ministry very much. I see how some might think he comes off as very harsh, but he is right about so many things! He is right about bethel church & hillsong! They are theological cults! Many mainstream Christian music is very watered down! I think some is okay but hymns & psalms are the best for worship!
Appreciate you sharing Rachel, that’s cool that his content has blessed you😊 Did you feel like his judgements towards Toby and Kari were fair?
@@PaulandMorgan I think Toby Mac is probably a sincere Christian. I think he is probably saved by my estimation. Kari Jobe is concerning in my opinion. She has very strange doctrinal positions from what I have read! I don’t know her relationship to God. I hope that she is saved & just lacks discernment!
@@rachelbanks2009 appreciate the response. Spencer’s judgments on them seemed overly harsh to me.
@@PaulandMorgan I think he definitely could have said it in a more loving way!
@@rachelbanks2009 or not at all, specifically the heathen part. You can’t just throw that term around without absolute proof, and the only proof he had was that movie trailer clip which he took 100% out of context. I’m going to say this as respectfully as possible, but this is why I unsubscribed from Spencer. He doesn’t do research or better yet he doesn’t do enough research on these artists and takes quite a bit out of context. He shouldn’t have made the video before the movie came out. It’s not on doctrine anyway. It’s about the history of Christian music, specifically, modern Christian music and how it started, where it is today, etc. which means his video was absolutely pointless. If the movie was about Christian music’s doctrine, then ok, he would have ground to make a video. Someone who went and saw the movie left a comment on the video saying that every clip he used, including the clip from TobyMac, with taken completely out of context. As someone who was subscribe to him for a little over two years and watched him do this time and time again, I would just like to say, please don’t make him your main source. Do not trust him completely. He gets some things right, but he gets a ton wrong. He is 100% correct on Hillsong, Bethel, and elevation music, but in regard to CCM, that’s basically where it ends. The only thing he rightfully criticize Kari Jobe for is the Bethel stuff. The rest is slander. He even edited one of her songs to make it sound demonic and it isn’t. No I don’t idolize these artists, but he comes from a place of bias, because he hates CCM. Again, he gets things right and some of what he says is indeed true, and some artists he calls out are deserving of it, but that’s less than 99% of the time. Just be cautious is all I’m saying.
A problem is many Christian artists are not as grounded in the Word as they should. Colossians 2:6-7 says this. Christians, especially if they are in the public eye, should give the more earnest need to the thinks we have heard, lest we drift away..Hebrews 2:1.
this is the challenge with the Internet: it's difficult to get to know somebody personally, which can take several years of close interaction - then a mature conclusion can be drawn about somebody. 2 Peter was written when Peter was an Elder and I am sure most of the people he wrote about he knew personally for several years and probably tried to help on many occasions
Interesting insight :)
Paul and Morgan, (if you have the time to read, here are some thoughts that I have :)
I have been listening to both you, and Spencer Smith for a while now, and to sum up my position I will say that I both agree, and disagree with things that both of you have said. Haha! But, that is okay. The most important thing is that we are in line with the essentials of the historical Christian faith. I think that there is grace for the grey areas. No one knows everything, but I do think that is important for all of us to continue to read our Bible every day, and let God speak for himself through it. We draw our conclusions from what God has already told and commanded us in his word. Period. That is something that I appreciate about Spencer, and you guys! Though, I would love it if you guys would pull up on screen somehow the scriptures that you mention in your videos; I think that doing that puts things into perspective, and points us to keeping the Bible our authority, and not our opinions (which you guys mentioned in this vid). Just a friendly suggestion. I appreciate when I hear Christians with a platform such as RUclips point people to God's Word, and saying, don't just take our word for it, go to the source for yourself to make your judgments. That, and prayer, is the best thing we can do to help us to be less susceptible to false teaching. I have to say that I do agree with a lot of things that Spencer has pointed out about Christian artists, worship music in general, and some dangerous doctrines. BUT, there are also times where I feel stuck because I love music, and want to write my own some day... ya know what I mean?? I have no idea if the Lord will push me to share my own music some day, but we will see! On the other hand, though, I do not necessarily agree with how you guys view the "Wake Up Olive" incident, but I do appreciate the different perspective that you bring to this discussion. I remember when the "Wake Up Olive" events were going on, and it was honestly appalling to me to see how Bethel was going about this. From what I saw, there was a lot of chanting, vain repetition, and just senseless chaos that made it seem like they felt that if they got the right "formula", then Olive would be resurrected because God would finally be like.. "ding, ding! We have a winner! You have found the correct combination!" Bethel's open experimentation is VERY troubling to me because they readily go outside of Scripture in the name of spiritual experimentation. It is their methods that are troubling. They actually discuss that in one of their recent "Rediscover Bethel" videos; see what you think! Also, I think it is safe to say that we don't see Jesus doing things like that when he raised Lazarus from the dead. In fact, Jesus spoke against vain repetitions when he was speaking out against the Pharisees for their prayers that were full of vain repetition because they felt they would be heard for their many words. Matthew 6 is what I am referring to here, and really feel that it applies to this situation. Jesus even says the word "heathen" here in verse 7 (depending on the version you read, some also say pagans or Gentiles, but potato potAHto. : "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." (KJV) “And when you are praying, do not use thoughtless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard because of their many words.
(NASB) And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. (NIV)
And please, go ahead and look at the full context. I just wanted to provide some scripture to show you what I am referring to. See what you think: I would definitely be curious to know! Anyway, these are a chunk of my many thoughts... sorry that was a lot!
Also, I received your t-shirt last week! Love it! Excellent quality; thanks for the time and effort you put into it! Thank you, and God bless you guys. :)
Appreciate the comment, Abbey😊
Outstanding comment :) 💯
I like Spencer Smith he's legit. Has great Godly intuition
His third Adam series is phenomenal
Third Adam is already false. 1 Corinthians 15 read it.
@@ivanodosreis4921The Antichrist is the “Third Adam”. He’s the false messiah.
@@ERB88 1st Corinthians 15 says that Jesus Christ is the Last Adam so how can there be a Third Adam. The Bible never says that the Anti Christ would call himself the Third Adam.
@@ivanodosreis4921 I know what that scripture says, and you’re missing the point…
@@ERB88 No I’m not because the Bible never says that the Anti Christ is the Third Adam. If Jesus is the Last Adam how can there be a Third Adam? You can’t just claim that I’m missing the point.
Spencer Smith is a Independent Fundamentalist minister, an some of the stuff he says about the NAR movement an Word of Faith movement is correct. Many people in the Charismatic an Pentecostal world disagree with Spencer. Unfortunately in Christian music some of artists have become worldly an become progressive in their beliefs. I think Paul an Morgan should reach out to Spencer an have him on your show discussing the issues. I'm glad both of you don't always agree with everything the Word of the Faith or NAR teaches or does. Anyway interesting video.
Thank you guys so much for having this conversation and approaching it with humility! This one definitely helped me have hope and be free. :)
Amy Grant made some pro LGTB statements. What do you think about that?
I don’t know much about Amy, but I’ve seen a couple things that are concerning. Hoping she’s going after the Lord
Yes and switchfoot said he agrees with semler and her way of life. Lesbian christian singer who swears. How lovely
@@jaymielee1110 Semler also essentially cursed Christ Jesus by writing lyrics with harsh profanities against having a Savior. I honestly am angry that people call her music Christian.
I think Spencer came down a little harsh, but I think he really is a defender of our faith but we are all human in the end. I appreciate that he can bring down the hammer if needed, but still not saying he’s always right.
Appreciate the insight😊
He isn’t a defender of our faith. He’s a defender of his beliefs, and if you don’t align with his belief, such as only singing stuff from the ymnal, he condemned you to hell. He’s been called out for that in his comment section. Most of his beliefs about music are based on his own preferences, but he makes him sound like fax. He also takes things out of context, and makes claims such as calling, an artist, a heretic without providing proof.
"It is NOT a mark of Christian grace and love to stay silent in the face of error." -Ernest Pickering
Well said P&M!! 🤗 Ive listened to Spencer for awhile and I agree with some things he says and his videos on corruption in the Christian music industry has opened up my eyes to a lot but he can be harsh on his reproach to people who he wants to expose. I do think we need to remember God loves those people also and we should pray they repent and come back to God's truth if they're in the wrong.
Very well said, Michelle. Thanks for sharing🙏
2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Who misses there old intro!
Me singing this every time when I watch them:”🎵the Paul and Morgan,the Paul and Morgan show lallalallalalallala🎵”
Please include this in your next video,please!
😁😁
I started watching their videos like 2months ago and realized they didn't do it. now I miss it, and I wasn't here those years 😥
@@mary-elizabetharndt yea omg they definitely should
If the music affects your walk ,then don't listen to it.Spencer Smith comes across as being very judgemental, which can turn people against a Christianity. Spencer says Rappers can't be Christians either,but they reach people where they are. IN THE END,we need to look within, and take the plank out of our eyes. WE are all our a journey. MAY ,WE STAY IN SCRIPTURE, KEEP OUR EYES ON JESUS and Continue to do good works.. not, to earn our way to Heaven, we do good works for What CHRIST has Done on Calvary..
Rapper can't be Christian.true
I was just at a TobyMac concert for the first time this past weekend that also hosted Tauren Wells, Jordan Feliz, Cochran & Co., and a couple of others. Some of the performances that happened I did feel like they were a bit much, but the gospel was preached both inside and outside of the songs by a couple of different people there including Toby. He was on point with the gospel and how we are saved-that it’s not by being a good person, it is by accepting what Christ did for us. I have gone through some hard stages with Christian music-trying to figure out what is good and biblical. I have seen some Christian artists do and say things they shouldn’t have to save their reputation towards the world, and that is sad. These Christian artists are people just like us who have struggles, who get it wrong, who aren’t perfect. Of course, their audience are thousands and millions of people, so they will be held more accountable for what they do. I think we can forget that Christians can have different views on the smaller things though. I think we can forget to act in love and mercy and grace towards others, because if they profess Christ as their Savior, and we see something “wrong” in their life, we should correct them, not just straight up condemn them.
Amen!
Amen
As a born-again Christian I feel compelled to speak to your video. I have followed Spencer for quite a while now. I see him pointing out scriptures in his videos that back up what he is saying about these churches and people. Please keep in mind he does not make these judgements based on one instance of these people. He does his homework and checks out what they say on their social media and the message in their music. He bases his opinion on multiple factors surrounding their beliefs, doctrine and actions. As far as Bethel you should watch some of his other videos on different incidents at Bethel other than the "Raising the dead baby" chapter. I say this with a lot of Emphasis. You need to remember the false teachers are leading more and more people to Hell every day. These churches won't hesitate to tell you that you are unloving and un-Christ like for pointing out their doctrinal errors. So, if Spencer calls them Heretics etc., I don't see that as over the top. These same people and churches will shout you down in a second if you try to correct their doctrine. It's not unloving or harsh to point out Scriptural wrong teachers if it saves people who might have followed the false teachings of Bethel Church.
The Bible commands us to judge over and over again. You should completely write off the Bethel cult. It's not a confused church. It's a cult. Look at their "doctrine." Straight up heresy. Same with the Hillsong cult.
Lying about christianity for views is exactly why we need more Spencer Smith's calling entertainers like you out.
Spencer brings up some good points but he fails to see his own problematic behavior. Plank in one eye pointing out the speck in others.
Hard preaching is what the church needs, not this TedTalk preaching stuff
TobyMac did not deserve being blasted by Spencer Smith and definitely did nothing to be labeled a "heathen." His songs glorify God in so many ways. I have been to multiple TobyMac concerts and He always talks about his faith in Jesus and always comes across as a genuine man of faith. The way TobyMac talks about how his faith sustained him through his son's death has been truly inspiring.
It honestly troubles me when people are attacked without legitimate evidence.
Well said!!!!!! Y’all never cease to blow me away with your Biblically sound, Spirit filled, wisdom 💜💜💜💜 God is working in and through ya’ll and it shows😃
I used to watch Spencer’s vids and apriciated the wisdom the Lord has given him and especially that he can share it on such a large platform. But as time went on and he got more views he seemed to become a cocky, prideful, aragant, self righteous, rude, harsh person. And that is not the characteristics of Jesus. He tries to justify it by saying it’s righteous judgment or something but I’m sorry, if there’s no love, it’s nothing but the creaking of the rusty gate. He has a lot of truth but he ruins it all with his attitude. He doesn’t give much hope for those who are lost. He acts as if they’re disgusting and unforgivable and unsaveable. And that’s not the mind of Christ. It will only turn the lost away from Christ.
Appreciate you sharing🙏
That's how I felt as well. All in all, I always look out whether the songs are Scriptural not just nice sounding. If I was blind would I know the artists, no, I'd only know the songs. I dont look into their personal lives nor support their churches.
@@NadiasCloud I agree with Paul and Morgan on their view of Christian artists. I always read the words in the songs, that’s the only reason I listen to the song haha. So ya I agree. If it’s not aligning with scripture then it’s currupt
I agree. I saw this too and called him out to stop this. Why not make a prayer call at the end of his videos for the lost exposed preachers he mentionned etc........ I didnt get it
@@dv4740 I agreed. Righteous indignation. Telling people they're going to hell when he doesn't have the final say.
What is not known is that all modern music, no matter the genre, all have one common thing: they all have a backbeat. The backbeat has its roots in paganism, and was used in pagan cultures to call up demons. Why would a child of God want to mix paganism with Christianity???
Oh, and BAPTISTS ARE NOT PROTESTANTS.
Everything Spencer Smith's talks about on his channel is true. Watching Third Adam 123 opened my eyes on the truth. @10:08 I understand Spencer can be too harsh on his videos but the man got a point! This is what Spencer Smith's also talking about being "Too Nice" Sometimes you have to be straight forward and call people out! because many people these days are so blind and have no discernment even until this day. So many christians on churches are still sleeping (If you get what I mean) and Spencer Smith is telling you to wake up! I believe the man. Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
I agree with many things you guys say about Spencer. I’m not a fan of how he speaks about people, not necessarily what he says. He’s also got a strong bias.
I reckon you guys would benefit from diving into what cessationists believe and the difference between full cessationism and classical cessationism.
Might be worth looking into the context and meaning of John 14:12. It’s possibly one of the most out of context verses out there and then people base ministries and theology on it.
🙂
1 Corinthians 13 v 1
" Though I speak with the tongues of men and angels ,but have not love , I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal .
V 4" Love suffers long AND is kind love does not envy love does not parade itself ,is not puffed up
V 5 does not behave rudely ...
Please read the whole of chapter 13 of l Corinthians 13 ,its a short chapter.
I did watch the whole interview featuring Skillet
and saw the man making the allegations was using a little poetic license to prove his point , the pentagram shown in his in his allegations was non existent in the interview as was the horns and fire on
the lead singer also the way he presented the interview when compared to how the interview really happened is more like propaganda than the truth .
I think that Spencer Smith is being way too judgmental towards a movie that hasn't even come out yet. I think it's awesome they're doing a movie about Christian music, especially since it's evolving to be more diverse and unique in sound! He's calling people heathens just like the Pharisees would, without having a solid basis of evidence. As someone who grew up on and still loves Christian music, these artists really inspired me and encouraged me in my faith! They showed me that there's another way to go into music without selling yourself short. I've been a fan of Tobymac for a long time and he is a very solid believer. His songs show God's word and love. Also loved the NF reference Morgan, I completely agree with him! I'm glad you guys talked about this! I'd love a movie review!
Appreciate you sharing, Emilie😊
I've never watched or even heard of Spencer Smith till this video. I have watched a TON of your guys' videos and I think rarely, if ever, have I disagreed with your opinion on most social topics. I can say that I don't agree with things Spencer said in THIS particular video.
When it comes to singers like Lauren Daigle who makes songs without mentioning Jesus, I can say that I personally don't find fault in that. Her music still ministers to born again believers who KNOW the music is about God but it can also minister to unbelievers who would most likely never listen to her if they knew she was Christian. She's able to minister to a lot of people in that way. Just my opinion.
I think it's far reaching to call them heathen. DO they 100% believe like us? Probably not. Have some different thinking? Probably so. But to call them a heathen, I think is not called for. Jesus said in the Gospels, "I have sheep you know not of."
Thanks for the video guys! Always enjoy them 🤍
Good insight, Chaney😊
Not mentioning Jesus in a worship song and letting the lyrics being ambiguous is what we call lukewarm
Aww Morgan you seem like you are in a much better place. That’s great! ❤️
❤️❤️
This is why i'm not subscribed to Spencer. He's too harsh. Doesn't show any grace. It's hard to watch him relentlessly bash ppl day in and day out. I unsubed when he dissected the song 'ocean' and try to show a problem were there is none.
I get that. I am concerned that he is overly harsh, as we stated in this video.
SAME!! That song Ocean is such a special song that takes me back to the first time I was at the ocean in my life and I was about to graduate college and I was nervous about my future. And the Lord so clearly spoke to me about being on the edge of the rest of the world and how I just need to trust him and that song documents that moment in my life. Spencer is a little extreme.
He does not lay down the true biblical doctrine of worship which is acapella exclusive psalmody.
@@jennifercrews3175 Ocean means so much to me too. I used to listen to it before going to work to calm me, as i had a very stressful job.
Spencer should realize, It's easy to be critical of Christians in this day and age. It's the cool and acceptable thing to do. That's why he doesn't get any hate like others who are critical of the world. I don't think some Christians deserve to get it from the world and other Christians too. It's alienating. I'm not saying he or anyone shouldn't be critical, just that he should do it with love and grace and be less extreme as you said. Like P&M🤗
@@MS-rt6hl Yes to all of that!
Spencer’s ministry is marked by condemnation, legalism and a divisive spirit. Any Christian who doesn’t share his theological views is an apparent heathen so I don’t give his opinions much weight 🙄
I agree with Spencer on some thing but I do think in many situations he borders the line of Accusing the brethren. That’s the job of satan yes righteous judgments but let’s not condemn each other to hell
i do 100% love how direct Spencer is. that being said, i think he makes a lot of claims without actually using examples or finding information to support them. it’s ok to be direct & call fellow believers our, it’s not ok to make claims without backing them up.
Good points :)
Spencer Smith needs to watch himself he is a dangerous line
Remember that God exhales the humble and the prideful he humbles
Spencer Smith is a modern day pharisess with his doctrine matters and exalts his therioes and opinion above the word of God he infact does twist words and takes thing way way way to far
I'm so tired of Christians publicly bashing other christians. It's not very concruent to building up the unity of the body of Christ. Christians, please stop using other christians to build your platform up. The world is laughing at us because of guys like Spencer. If you have an opinion about another believer, keep it to yourself. I will not be going to his channel, I will not be subbing to his page. These are artists, who make beautiful music, that try to bring people closer to God. I guess guys like Spencer can only go after other christians because most of us are soft targets. I dare him to go after brothers like the guys @ Southside rabbi and see how far his "doctrine" gets him. I'll say it again, I'm not impressed with any believer that profits off the tearing down of other believers.
I think contemporary music sounds too worldly. Basically we should not mimic the world or try to mimic the world. For this reason I am very strict on the music is listen to. It’s got to have God glorifying lyrics, and not sound like music you hear on the worldly radio stations. I don’t know if I agree with everything Spencer said but that’s just my contemporary music take lol
If someone accused me of not being a christian.. I wouldnt be offended but really check what I've believed.. spencer isnt trying to insult you, check what you believe
Raising the dead is the sign of an apostle and I think Jesus did it to show who He was and His power over the grave. I grew up wondering why churches dont see or even ask for healings but I recently learned that the reason so many healings took place around the apostles was that it was a sign that they were sent by Christ and it was a sign that they should be listened to. God still heals but not at the will of man. Bill Johnson is called an apostle by some but he is not, he would love to give us a reason to think he is though.
Healings still happen.
@@fendercuber I wrote that too.
I told Spencer in his comment section that he needs clearly show in scripture why people are off. Spencer answered me. He told me that I was a heathen and that he could not help me. 😕
What? I’m so so sorry. That’s uncalled for. Your comment doesn’t make you a heathen. You’re comment is the truth. Please don’t listen to him. You’re not a heathen.
@@tyeishaleisure thanks for your concern. I have the assurance of my salvation. Spencer or anyone for that matter telling me I am a heathen does not trouble me.
@@fff8947 you’re welcome and good for you. This very thing is why I unsubscribed from him. He’s one to be marked and avoid it 100%. Sadly you’re not the first person he’s treated this way. While I was subscribed to him, he bullied a 17 year old girl in the comments. He was also sexist towards a subscriber that he assumed was a woman. When me and a few other people called him out for the way he treated this person, he ended up deleting her comment and blocking her. No matter what his followers say, he is hateful and someone to be ignored. He does nothing for the body of Christ whatsoever. Anyone who disagrees with him are condemned to hell by him. This video is a good example as he said that those who listen to music outside of hymns Will go to hell. Those commenting on this video here saying that Paul and Morgan should go watch his third Adam video and do their own search or go watch his videos are his followers who will defend him no matter what, even if he’s wrong. They worship him and are absolutely toxic. He doesn’t except rebuke, correction, or criticism even if it’s done in a loving respectful way. His mentality is he is right and everyone else is wrong.
@@tyeishaleisure what I don't get is he plays horrible music and his followers all tell him how great it is.
There is a problem with much of the music that is said to be christian today. I believe we are in the last of the last days and need to be careful what we listen to and what we watch. We live in evil times and need to be discerning and live lives that are set apart. A lot of what Spencer says is correct but at this point he seems to demonize everyone.
@@fff8947 agree. I’m someone who is extremely careful with who I listen to, and I have come across a lot of bad music, but I don’t demonize everyone. There is also good music and artists, and yes, the music he plays is absolutely awful. I tried the app he always recommends, and the musicput me to sleep. Every song sounds the same, and most of the songs didn’t mention Jesus by name, a complaint he has with modern Christian music. For as much as he criticizes modern Christian music, his alternative has the same problem. I listened for an hour, and maybe only 3 songs mention Jesus. Most songs were essentially love songs. And all the artists were the stereotypical southern artists with strong southern accents. The music wasn’t the least bit edifying or anything you can worship to. Every song was slow and use the same instruments which meant that one song bled in to the next. There’s absolutely no distinction between songs. And to be clear, my harshness towards him has nothing to do with idolizing these artists. It has to do with what I saw while subscribed to him which wasn’t anything that makes me want to care about anything he says even if he’s right about some things or praise him in any way. There’s a difference between raising concerns and what he does, and being subscribed to him was not a pleasant experience. The environment he has created on his channel is extremely toxic and I myself was attack by one of his followers and accused of trying to have authority over him for asking a simple question along with stating my opinion which was not in his favor. In case that accusation doesn’t make any sense, I’m a woman. That’s why I said in my previous comment that he should be 100% marked and avoided and that he does nothing for the body of Christ. Just wanted to make that clear, because idolizing these artists is the first accusation i’d get from one of his subscribers if they saw my comments here and because I realize I probably came off really harsh and negative in my previous comments.
I am a Christian artist, and have been struggling with the money making aspect and the style, as I like metal and radio friendly; and I also love the hymns so very much. But I have noticed a movement in the mainstream industry for money, and not worship. We need to have grace because we do not know these artists personally, or how their love for Truth may exist. Calling out someone is not a good idea unless they show actual obvious hatred towards God, and seem to love money in Gods place.
Independent Baptists (and Landmark Missionary Baptists, which I am) do believe that the gifts of the Spirit, except for faith, hope, and love, ceased whenever the Bible was complete (1 Corinthians 13).
Spencer is a fundamental Baptist Missionary
Is it just me but the moment I see more criticism than praise and more emphasis on doctrine than people it reminds me of the pharisees. Idk who this guy is but I know one thing for sure name calling is not part of any doctrine in the bible. Also Jesus says by love people will know that you are my disciples, lol that whole video had barely any ounce of love for people.
Just saying 👀
I believe Paul was often referring to the local church dealing with their own flock in terms of judgment. I do think some need to be called out don’t get me wrong. But I see so many Christians taking on this stand against other Christians and leaders around the world who they don’t know personally, to make judgment calls on. Why is it so easy? Because it’s not done at a local level. There’s no accountability for the people who make constant videos like that. And let’s face it. You get more views being critical than exhorting one another in love and good works. The amount of exposing videos speak for themselves when u search up specific leaders or Christian artists. I’d be careful not to focus so much on correction when they are not even personally connected with who they are talking about. To me it is a weird concept to publicise so much judgment or to ‘expose’ people. Imagine if you had a situation with someone in your church and instead of sorting it out with each other and the leadership personally, they blast it on RUclips.
Appreciate the insight :)
Theirs a lot of wishy washy Christians that say their Christians, but their not born again!
That is true🙏
Exactly some many see falling away. They rather are accepted and praised. Then go through persecution and trials for our Lord.
I love tobymac’s music it’s been very encouraging to me and points me back to God a lot
I think his theology is very accurate in his songs and the truth he speaks in them compared to some other artists is so encouraging and admirable
Hearing him be called a heathen was very weird as I look up to him a lot bc of all that I’ve learned and the spiritual truths I’ve been reminded of from his music 🤷🏼♀️
Appreciate you sharing❤️
Tobymac is a mason. Just look at his album covers
Ridiculous. Does this man even know Toby’s walk? Let God be the judge and every man a liar.
@@equineblessed An album cover doesn't reveal Toby's walk with God since God doesn't look at the outward appearances,He looks at the heart but I do kinda agree that his album covers are creepy.
@@camillegodwin6398 no he doesn’t. And he took that clip completely out of context. Someone who actually went and saw the movie said that every clip used in the video was taken out of context. He hates CCM and goes to any length he has to to show that it is bad and demonic. He only likes the hymns.
I’m not conservative I’m a leftist but does anyone want me to make a playlist of songs that are clean? Lol I’m just bored and I thought some of you guys who don’t like explicit music would like a playlist of music you can listen to
I would not recommend Kari Jobe along with Hillsong, Bethel, or elevation!
I have called out plenty of Christian artists on things before lecrae being one of them however I don’t think the things he talked about in those clips validates calling any of them a heathen.
🙏🙏
Friendship with the world is enmity against God. A friend of the world is an enemy of God. James 4:4 Does that sound like a heathen or a Christian? Christians came to this land to protest (Protestants) against Catholicism. Catholicism deleted the second commandment and divided the tenth commandment to make two separate ones. Does this sound like something a Christian or a heathen would embrace?
jn 11. Lazarus raised from the dead is (a picture of a lost person getting saved and in their right mind)
We Christians do not have the power to do as Jesus did today as pertaining to the 4 Gospels.
Jesus gave his 12 apostles power to work miracles in (Israel) For the jews require a sign 1 cor 1:22
to heal the sick
raise the dead
or if you drink poison it wont hurt you
or if you pick um a snake you won't get hurt
notice here. Jesus to the 12 apostles
mark 16; 17- 18 And "these signs" shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Morgan you stated we have the ability to do what Jesus did
but if you're siding with bethel that we supposedly can raise people from the dead; look at mark 16;17 again
because nobody can pick a sign
because if you have one sign you got them all
signs* plural
it was for a specific time. for a specific purpose. for a specific group of people
If i can use myself as an example
I was born with Cerebral Palsy . I can't walk. I use a motorized wheelchair to get around
But given my position doesn't give a pastor or a congregation the ability to Force God's healing power on me.
God's gonna make you walk James i feel it
I've had people tell me that, or tell me I had a vision of you walking
what's happening here is These sign Churches are trying to replace Israel (Physical kingdom)
The church (spiritual kingdom) we walk by faith not by "sight" 2 Corinthians 5:7 KJV
They want the signs and gifts and lying wonders- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9
and the thing is these churches dont separate Historical doctrines from spiritual applications
Are you familiar with Acts 3: the lame man?
acts 3; 1 kjv -
Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
This right here is a lost man now is saved and in Christ
and its all throughout The Gospels, There was no almost or might get healed with Jesus. All we're healed.
the woman at the well John 4. The blind man John 9, The woman with the issue of blood 12 years mark 5 the demon possessed
is all a picture of a lost man trusting Jesus
Spiritual application to Christians today
even Paul sought the Lord three times to remove the thorn in the flesh but He said my grace is sufficiant 2corithians 12;9
my strength is made perfect in weakness
So what does that mean?
GOD DIDNT answer paul to keep him humble and to rely on Him
And its for the same reason that i'm in my position
The Lord dosent promise healing. He promises Heaven
Ephesians 1:13-14
King James Version
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
And the "Greater works" is that The Gospel is preached to everyone
The Death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
We all can do that
Lord bless you
These people get so offended by dispensationalism and cessationalism
The thing I will never understand is that the ones accusing others of judging when they tell the truth are in fact the harshest judges. Spencer Smith is straightforward, which is what the church needs today. Another thing: why is he receiving more flak for being truthful than the other apologists on RUclips saying the same thing? Could it be that the don't judge crowd just dislikes if not downright hates Independent Baptists?
Agree
You hit on something that raised a concern for me… “maybe they (Christian artist) wrote them to sell records… I think that is where most contemporary Christian artist are trying to get to. To sell records and not praying for an anointed song or album. Now I believe good positive music for Christians to enjoy is important, and for our entertainment. I see nothing wrong with that. But there is the dilemma for me, does it lift up and edify? Is it anointed? Churches have a tendency to have their worship service look like a night club… mmmm. I don’t think that is right either. Be in the world not of the world… however, I do agree you cannot take one statement and call someone a heathen. I just know as long as it doesn’t contradict the Word… I think we are good. Watch their life, are they living a life that is above reproach?
I had to turn this video off because the two of you were raising my blood pressure. ✌️
"Don't trust any of us. Go back to the Word." Is the best advice I've heard from any RUclips channel
I just found your channel and love it. I agree with Spencer on doctrinal issues but I think he can be way to harsh on people at the expense for a financial profit. He should not be calling people heathens simply because he is not God. The Apostle Paul never referred to even the Corinthians as heathens when they were in sin. He would LOVINGLY correct them and exhort them in their walk. He just did a video about his attendance at a Phil Wickham concert and blasted him as well. We need to be discerning of course but should we come right out calling all of them heathens?
I agree and believe it is not our place to call people heathens or publicly call their faith into question. To me, that is putting yourself on a pedestal and an attempt to take on a role that we can't have. All we can do is look at someone's outer appearance, we can't know someone's true heart. Only God knows that. I think Spencer would call out Jesus Christ himself if he was on earth today, and I think heaven is full of people he'd call "heathens."
Idk what’s going on with the artists but I do wonder why you’d do a video without doing some research on some of these artists. You’re just responding to a video without doing your own research? Not very helpful to me…
I think you both did a good job with this video! U brought up a lot of valid points. I personally don’t like Spenser Smiths videos and how he is so critical of others he don’t agree with. Spenser Smith comes across like a Pharisee to me.
Exactly. That’s why I unsubscribed from him after 7 months. It’s one thing to close out error and heresy, true error and heresy that doesn’t require taking video clips and statement out of context, but it’s another thing to call out people based on your hate for a genre of music that no one is forcing you to listen to. Is there some Bad modern Christian music? Yes, but that’s no excuse to be a bully. Spencer Miss throws rover like heathen and heretic without any proof other than what college the artist attended is reckless, andthis is just one example of many problems with Spencer Smith.
I'm actually a huge TobyMac fan
😊😊
Same❤
Spencer Smith claimed that people who are rolling on the floor when filled with the Holy Spirit are demon possessed. I'm not a fan of him at all.
I mean there is a line. Someone like out rolling on the floor and acting like a crazy person, is probably not filled with the Holy Spirit. They are likely possessed or putting on a show. That being said, sometimes the spirit hits you and you hit the floor, and I have seen some people fall in fits of giggles from being filled with joy from the spirit, but it is always in a manner that allows for self control. It is never "wild" or chaotic or out of control. (Though I guess to a person unaccustomed to such things may see it that way if it's unexpected.)
@@live_unafraid47 why is the Spirit hitting you? There is only one baptism and as far as bible accounts of people getting saved, didn’t read anything about giggling either very loud or quietly on the floor. Some do fall down on their faces in reverence or sorrow like Paul and the woman with the issue of blood. Yes, People proclaim his name in joy for the awaited Messiah, who forgives sin. Idk how you can feel like giggling when you realize you’re a sinner faced before a holy God. Please check what Spirit that is.
Paul and the apostles didn’t giggle while rolling on the floor though.
@@peakay390 were you there?
@@fendercuber no but I can read
Who are you guys to say this is too much? Did not Jesus call some Jews "sons of Satan"? A spirit of unity in supporting doctrinal unity in the fundamentals of scripture may be more effective, even if you are not personally comfortable with a final label.