Last Days Of Disney Hand Drawn Animation - Frank Dietz
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- Screenwriter Frank Dietz is a former Disney animator. In this Film Courage video interview Frank references his time on the comedy movie I Hate Kids (2019), written by Frank and Todd Traina and directed by John Asher. The film stars Tom Everett Scott, Marisa Tomei, Tituss Burgess, Rhea Seehorn, Rachel Boston, Julie Ann Emery and Arden Myrin. In 2020 Frank joined the Creepshow (2019) television series as a writer for season 2 (among his many other credits).
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Actively fighting for Hand Drawn animation to stay alive. Great convo!
I hope 2D animation stays alive. Winter 2020 has been one of the best seasons for Anime in a while. I thought it was on the rise.
I'm still moaning the loss of 2D animation in the west. That's why I keep watching anime, 2D is still strong. Glad he mentioned Disney's 'Princess and the Frog', proudly saw it in a theater with my husband.. bittersweet because we knew it was the last 2D animation piece from the Disney studio.
With hard quality work and creativity, the art of animation will never die
It's kind of an "underground" art now, with Harry Partridge and some music videos. Very niche.
Computer animation makes sense to me if the story's world calls for it, as in the case of Toy Story, where seeing the plastic and fabrics of the toys helped form a connection with their reality.
Otherwise, I'll always respond more emotionally to hand drawn animation. Not only do I find it more beautiful to look at, but it's also more difficult to do *really* well. Lighting, scale, camera movement, background elements - these are all easily done with software. But to accomplish the same with just the human hand, to have to create everything seen onscreen from nothing for each and every frame, that will always impress me more than CG.
Raggedy Ann and Andy never needed texture to work... although the sequel didn't help.
2D animation is still alive. Even Disney does 2D pencil tests in preproduction for CGI films. America(in general) has always had a narrow view of animation and comic books. It's still "kids stuff" in a lot of people's eyes unfortunately.
I was a traditional hand-drawn animator, working at a small East Coast studio, and moved to L.A. to get more work right when 2D animation was collapsing. After 2 1/2 years of finding no animation work, I moved back East, and got a job on a limited animation T.V. show done in Flash. It was so joyless I quit after 2 months and have worked regular non-artistic jobs ever since.
Wanna hit me up?
I'm a bit intrigued.
@@zuppoblitz6627 I actually just got an offer from a publisher for my graphic novel, so things are picking up! My animation is on here under orange grove animation, the one with the drawing of a fox, and my name.
I similarly went from working on The Iron Giant to full time CG in the span of a year. A lot of people don't know Ice Age was originally slated to be a 2D Don Bluth film at Fox when I was there, but the 3D revolution changed that. At that point Toy Story had done phenomenally well, and A Bug's Life put a lot of 2D projects on hold. It was a hard letdown coming from my dream job to VFX, but I still got to work on some very big films with industry legends. We do what we must to survive, it's evolve or become extinct. Now I'm watching everything change to virtual production, and retooling my skillset yet again to stay relevant. Fortunately I love learning new technologies...
Frank, it was amazing listening to your story! What a tragic loss was that. 2D is not a technical limitation, but a creative freedom, in my opinion. As the purest form it should always trump the trends and live a proud immortality.
All of this is so true……I had such ups and downs in trying to get into the animation industry, but I have a job as a courtesy clerk in a grocery store. In my spare time I am still doing sketches, and penciled drawings to keep dreams motivated.
I applied at Disney Vancouver in the 90s and leaned they owned my intellect if hired.. couldn’t deal with it
We hear you Todd, no way we could do that either.
@@filmcourage Cheers from Canada, and thanks a lot for these videos! They've helped me with a ton of decisions.
Great to hear! Keep creating.
2d is much much better than CGI. I wrote a short for a contest, and I envisioned it 2d animation. I had it all drawn in my head, but I can't draw even a bad stick figure. So I looked to hire an animator. I was quoted $100 per second, so for my 8 minute film, $48,000. Wow.
He is right about the script. Theres a reason why Genndy Tartakovsky has carved his own empire since Hanna Barberra. The problem is cg is the cheap alternative these days. Creating something with hand on paper and flipping through it, followed by painting acetate is different than carving geometry in 3d space and manipulating joints, shading, lighting, ambient occlusion. As someone who studied both, 3d CG is overly comprehensive with specialists in a pipeline from modeling to rigging-texturing-animating is a lot of long hours for a thing. Its pretty joyless. Its not to say its easy, you have to be an artisan or craftsman, but in the end of the day you have more control over drawing something to life even if it is keying or tweening. But to sum it up, look at a model in 3d space and compare it to an animation cel. One is a soulless endeavor of craftsmanship sans apparent emotion, the other is corporeal art.
I remember the first time I saw Akira back in like 92...Absolutely blown away!
I really appreciate and enjoy these interviews.
Fight the good fight. One cel at a time.
Dang this man lived everything I learned in animation class. I also had trouble transitioning to 3d, it really isn't the same as drawing, and I'm adept with computers
I have always Appreciated the work of 2D hand drawn animations. Especially after everything went CGI only. I was living time we watched 2D movies nonstop and those were most magical movies ever. You can do stuff CGI can't do. Old Disney is so Unique. We need to figth for 2D coming back
I would love to make a 2D animated feature film one day!
I know exactly when that happened because I graduate in 2004 and I saw the hand writing on the wall from my Old Professor.
This is very interesting to me. I studied the first cut of Maya for a couple of years at the same time as this person did and, as an artist and musician I had the same experience and found the interface really difficult.
Thank you for this amazing content!
Are there any plans of interviewing more people from the animation field?
very nice interview thanks for sharing.
9:38 When he mentions about making 2D animation with CG elements, I immediately remember Ufotable, the studio behind Kimetsu no Yaiba . They are one of earliest anime studio who are inspired to use this technique in anime medium. The first Kara no Kyoukai film which was released in 2007 still holds up to this day.
i love them both
I think that Spiderman into the Spiderverse was proof that 2D and 3D can coexist beautifully without one trying to kill the other. Everyone loves to point out that the 2D Lion King was leagues better than the live action. If they would've used both to craft the 3D characters, they would have made a much stronger emotional impact
Except the "live-action" Lion King isn't really live-action.
What a legend
I remember watching how The Lion King was done. Animal handler walked a lion into the room with the artists to look at; size, shape, movement. Technically knowing how large a lion is, then seeing a lion in the flesh up close. Literally breathtaking.
I love to draw with a pencil on paper and never even tried a cg tablet. I guess I should at least try it. Filming all those papers is difficult. So, cg is ahead there. But paper with a light behind it and an eraser on a spinning board, that is my dream to have.
i think an iphone at this point could snap up hi res art frame by frame, no?
What alternatives are there for 2D animators where you can keep drawing?
RUclips is one
You can feel when something is hand-drawn. 'Cuphead' (the videogame) is a great example of how magical the art form really is and how positively people respond to it. Conversely, you can also feel how cold and lifeless CG almost always feels. It's gross.
NEWSFLASH- Jenifer Lee when releasing frozen 2, announced that future hand drawn projects is possible and the studio is open for that medium, depending on the filmmaker´s vision when pitching them, and I am one of those who is determined to pitch them something special in mind
I’m not sure if anyone will ever see this but I’m trying to remember a documentary about hand drawn/animation team at Disney? It has parts where it opens or shows an old Mickey Mouse doll that cried when older animators/loss of dreams for the animation team/closing.
Is it one of these? - conceptartempire.com/animation-documentaries/
Maybe this one? - www.imdb.com/title/tt0443488/
@@filmcourage Yes! Thank you, I at first thought it was the Sweatbox but it’s this one! I saw it so long ago and this scene stuck with me.
Wow, this reminds me of Drew Struzan. It's sad, but I enjoy seeing transition stories like this....
That's funny, because Drew is a good friend of mine!
@@frankdietz9517 That's Epic! I hope he is doing well 🙂 I really enjoyed the documentary I watched about him.
Hey, it's the 'kid' from Black Roses!
Treasure Planet was good. The reason it bombed wasn't because of it's quality, but by being made ahead of its time- and released at the wrong season with a lot of heavy competition.
Also remmeber, Transformers 2 and Avatar were the biggest grossers of 2009..... they both suck.
2nd animation like anime are gold i hope anime doesn't become 3rd one day-
My animation teacher worked on Mr Magoo. His experience (and the business of animation) turned me off on ever working in that industry.
Why? What happened?
Perhaps in a 100 years we'll have a better perspective of the transition of 2D to 3D. There's still a kind of demonization of Disney, that they looked at Toy Story, saw it was 3D and thought, that's why it was successful instead of the script and that's what caused the 3D revolution. And I get it, alot of people's lives were turned upside down by the transition to 3D, and there's often in many fields not a recognition that a technological change will leave alot of workers behind and there should be assistance instead of forgetting these people. And the specific way Disney and other studios did it wasn't right. But that's how history works. A specific person had to invent the first car. They had to invent it in a specific way. Henry Ford figured out how to mass produce and market cars to the masses in a specific way. But the reality is that cars would have been an intergral part of people's lives whether that particular person, that particular method of invention, that particular way of mass producing it existed or not.
I think 2D will always be around, but as the dominate form, no. Traditional animation was done as it was because it was the most technologically advanced way of doing animation in the 20th century. There's lots of ways to make animation. Stop motion is one form, but it wasn't nearly as prevalent as traditional animation. In the 20th century, artists overwhelmingly knew how to draw. So you are pulling from a niche skill set to compete with traditional animation, which can pull expertise from a wide range of artists. That's an expense for a studio, to have to support niche expertise, and to keep those artist occupied. Now we live in a world where computers are part of every facet of people's lives. Everyone has a cellphone more powerful than the first computer that did computer graphics. A 3 year old is more likely to use a computer than draw on a piece of paper with crayons. People go to college for computer related subject that we need for society, not just animation. So now society is set up to support 3D animation in the 21st century in a way it was set up to support traditional animation in the 20th. Also countries like Japan that still primarily do traditional animation still are notorious for underpaying their workers to the point, they often rely on charity to pay bills. That's essentially cheating the system because your business model can't pay living wages and it's abuse of workers.
Shame on Disney in the way they transitioned to 3D and treated their workers loyal to them. But I don't mourn the transition. Those of us that want to continue the fine tradition of traditional animation, and I count myself about among them should focus on making traditionally animated films (That pay workers fairly, don't take advantage of artist's love of traditional animation!). There's still stop motion films, and to a lesser extent every other form of animation.
My studio making Hand Drawn Animations it's coming out from my studio. It's Coming Soon!
For hand-drawn animation to come back, there has to be a reason, and I can think of a couple. For one, that same plasticky Frozen look over and over is getting old, which means something else will put it out of its misery. Same with Toonboom Harmony TV shows.
My bets are on a future AI-assisted program that will handle pencilled, painted, inked artwork scans and do things like line/texture boiling, 3d turns, logical (not mathematical or bezier) inbetweening, etc. The artists' personal touch and identity will be more important and visible than ever. Besides, in this day and age, should a sweatshop of underpaid kids in front of Wacom tablets till their eyebags walk home by themselves be a way of life for anyone anymore?
I think it might have something to do with the technology as well. Seeing what Spider-Verse and Klaus did with traditional animation, the art form has to evolve with contemporary techniques and software. The general stigma surrounding 2D is that it's too old-fashioned and lacking in terms of innovation.
Well, Bob's Burgers: The Movie will save 2D animation for Disney.
5:00 This is bizarre and unfair!
So the only way, when working at these large Studios, you can get your other skills shown or sold outside of this 'large umbrella' is by quitting or finishing out your contract.
Wonder, if while working at Amazon, a Fulfillment Center worker writes out a script, or composes a music score, will Amazon confiscate it as their intellectual property? I won't be surprised if they do!
It's a little different, because the fulfillment center isn't part of their creative division. If you work at the Disney Store they don't own your work, but if you work in a creative division they do.
@@frankdietz9517 Thank you, Frank! Appreciate your clarification!
I hate kids sounds a lot like Flirting with Disaster. Hmmmm . . .
True, but if you compare the two they're actually very different . The Bill Murray movie Broken Flowers is much closer, but we were working on our script before them. Coincidence. It happens a lot in this business.
Home on the range? Wow. That was forgettable
2d animation is much much worse, im glad we changed for 3d animation, even making 3d look like 2d looks better.
no..