Bro I think you nailed the direction that Halo's Multiplayer should (possibly with more thought) go in. Gameplay that adapts to the player! Imagine if Spartan's changed based on the environment their in! Imagine their abilities change with the terrain, this would open up endless options and would be something I've never seen in another shooter. I think you've got a million dollar idea here, dude.
Very very good video. Pretty much sums up the issues halo 5's sandbox suffers from. Why are vehicles not in slayer? Sprint Why are teleporters gone? Sprint Why are grav lifts gone? Clamber Why do all the maps play exactly the same? Spartan abilities The key to halo's future is the map design and sandbox, not changing the gameplay of the player.
But there are grav lifts in quite a few maps. Clamber can't boost you up 20 feet. But a grav lift can. Not every wall is scale able. That is due to barriers created by the map designer.
Though, I do think 343 should go back to the old Halo because it has been 10 years and a new one is due. I really love Halo 5 even though it is different. Most of the things people attack Halo 5 for is just for it being different or changes in gameplay, but the changes and gameplay itself aren't bad. It is starting to get on my nerves with all these people saying that Halo 5 is a bad game. The old Halos and the new Halos are among my favorite games and both sides of the Halo community are attacking one of these games and I passionately defend both, it makes it really hard to pick side. It sucks.
Yeah, also I miss the power up orbs scattered around the map. Reach only has them for Anniversary playlist games, I wished 343 would release some maps for Reach in the other playlists that have the power orbs.
LateNightGaming I disagree and will thoroughly explain why. First off why are you asking for vehicles in Slayer. Did you ask for vehicles in The Pit, Lockout or Guardian? and BTW Halo 5 does have Grav Lifts. WTH?!!! Seriously both those statements read like you were just hating for the sake of hating. Halo 5 is most certainly not perfect but by God have they created the best Weapon Sandbox in the series. I know we all loved the good old days when mastery of the BR was above all weapons but think critically and tell me if that's not an unbalanced Weapon Sandbox? IT IS! If one weapon trumps all others in most scenarios then what the heck is the point of putting weapons on the map? I'm not going to write a book but I challenge you to speak on the weapon sand box. Speak on how meaningful it is to actually have to use the weapons on the map as opposed simply walking past them because you already have a BR/DMR (Halo 2, 3, Reach). Speak on what it's like to actually have a decent weapon to start with as opposed to bare AR starts. What's it mean to you to have a decent but not overpowered pistol for the first time since Halo CE? There might be weapons that are meaningless but by large Halo 5 forces you to learn to work with different weapons more so than any other game in the series and that's a good thing.
Something else occurred to me. Elongation and all of its interesting and unique gameplay applications, was in free DLC. Enhancing the sandbox is something that doesn't require a full sequel to do. Meanwhile, for all of Halo 5's post-launch content, while its cool, none of it stands out to me. Because nothing is able to equate to the shift introduced by changing the fundamentals of gameplay (thrusters, clamber, etc).
For your point at 14:29, believe it or not, but Reach actually implemented Armor Abilities in a way that _could_ be controlled. (They simply weren't controlled in most standard playlists.) But take for example, the MLG playlist. Armor abilities worked completely differently there because they were disabled as spawn traits, but were on the map as pickups, (basically like equipment from Halo 3, and OS and Camo from the first three games.) These new additions to the game (that completely broke the base game in standard playlists and turned so many people away) were _still_ implemented in a way such that they _could_ be removed if they broke things. I think this is one of the reasons why I claim to have liked Reach when so many others didn't: because I didn't play much of the game with standard settings. I only ever played in playlists and custom games where AAs were disabled, or had a specific purpose. This just goes to reinforce your point that Bungie implemented new features in a modular way, but the other guys are implementing changes that cannot be disabled if you don't like them. And you know how easy it would be to let us change these things? Just put them in the settings for fuck's sake! That was Reach's true strength: how insanely vast and customizable its settings were. They were so customizable in fact, that it actually takes some practice to navigate the Reach settings menus and remember where everything is. But new games are taking away our access to these settings. Why? Fucked if I know.
There sure is. Like I said, Bungie managed the base game of Reach rather poorly. You need to give us the options, but also manage those settings appropriately in the situations where we can't change them ourselves. For the new games, they're just all on, all the time.
I genuinely think this is the best video you've made to date (not that I disliked your videos before, I just think this builds on everything you've said up to this point)! It addresses the issues you've discussed before in a concrete, example-based way (or at least it fleshed out some of those ideas better while keeping them completely relevant to Halo), acknowledged the variety of opinions people have regarding different mechanics and why that's relevant to how the mechanics are implemented (again with several specific examples), presented the argument such that it can appeal to 343/Microsoft on both a moral AND pragmatic standpoint, and even gave a couple fun suggestions to implement such changes going forward. Fantastic video Favyn! :D
D Vice they are aim assist in different ways. halo 5 uses a lot of what is called "magnetism" where your reticle isn't pulled as much but your shots are "magnetized towards your target" . and that's on top of weapons being hitscan. in halo 3, there was average aim assist (subtle reticle assistance) and the magnetism only effected 1 of the 3 BR shots (which had very little impact) the halo 3 BR also had a large spread and it was projectile based meaning it actually fired an object from the weapon that had to travel and collide with the hitbox. this meant you had to lead your shots. that's not something that can be replicated or tested by just shooting at a spartan that is standing still. honestly dude it's OK to like Halo 5. nothing in this video says it's bad. they're just different. sorry it took so long to respond, I got busy :)
Favyn, if I had one video to show 343 it would be this. This video describes the true core of Halo's problems and the vision of what Halo should be. Great work man. I may share this on the Waypoint Forums.
Rogue HellJumper it was moved from general discussion (high traffic area - where I originally posted) to community creations (low traffic area), even though this is a discussion video meant to promote discussion. So, basically you are correct lol.
I like how you're also starting to account benefits your ideas can be to the developers themselves. I really liked that in the video about how Halo 6 can't satisfy everyone and I loved it's inclusion here. You don't just throw ideas by thinking they're "cool". You also see if they work in a developers point of view.
Favyn, I wish you were head of the gameplay design of Halo because the direction in which you theoretically talk about potential future Halo titles gets me excited thinking this is what is going to be a reality even though sadly chances of that are slim because, no offense to 343i, but they are one stubborn company. I'm a computer science major that wants to do a lot with video game design and has taken a lot of inspiration from Halo's titles 1-3, and have learned a lot about how much Bungie did right with those titles versus how much 343i has done wrong with 4 and 5. Watching this whole video made me think outside of the box on how a video game really should be made and how much of the little things 343i could do with Halo without drastically changing the original golden Halo formula. Really appreciate you making all of these videos, all of us Halo fans really just want what's best for the franchise and everything you rant and talk about is right on the money.
Here's how I understood this (simplified) If you have a shitty tool, all you have to do is go get a better one and throw the old one away. but if you have, say, a shitty hand (and let's pretend prostetics don't exist) you can't just chop it off and get a better one, you're stuck with it forever, and if you cut it off, well then you have no hand at all. Which would you prefer, a shitty tool or a shitty hand?
Not to mention the fact that even if you can't throw that tool away (Since it's company property), you can simply elect not to use it, or even achieve marginally identical results with other tools.
Warthog seat switching was exactly the type of natural innovation and evolution desired by fans (and "Bungie purists," too!). It's the "Press X to swap ally's weapon" of Halo 5. There are many things that 343i does right, little glimpses of the company's full potential, thanks for (hopefully) helping to push them in the right direction, Favyn! Great video.
MediumGreySky Eh, I feel that it discourages teamwork. The warthog was the icon of teamwork in videogames, and now it's perfectly viable on it's own. A little sad really.
in that scenario with capture the flag, ice, and the bubble shield.... i would be the guy to toss the bubble shield at the flag carrier. I really like that idea
It would be hard to get the angle at which you throw it because you would have to make sure the flag carrier can be within he shield at all times, and that would make all the more satisfying when you pull it off. :)
It's easy to tell that you're tired of arguing against the same type of morons after every video, so you made sure to crush any of them in this one. This is the definitive video: the cumulative argument against New Halo after years of community debate. This is where we take the fight to them. This is what we stand for.
Interaction over base mechanics. Reminds me of Breath of the Wild. You don't have a ton of buttons to press, you have a ton of places to go and environments to interact with. The section on not liking maps is so true. I hate Snowbound on H3 but I still love the game as a whole. With Halo 5 I realized that I don't like a lot of the maps for the same reasons.
Have you ever play a game call Halo Reach by any chance. If not let me remind you what bungie ad that changed the core gameplay and make the people at the time frustreted. No more fair start with equipment, new bloom mechanic with the dmr who replace the br, no br, no dual weilding. But the real probleme with 343 games is the lack of polishe and quailty that make bungie rep and also that halo 3/half life 2 sandbox. But to be fair, what i think append at 343 is that they are trying to do too much and are force to cut corner to meet there deathline. Like bungie with halo 2 devlopment. Plus the trend in fps lately is to go back to the root so not all hope is lost ;) p.s I even make alot of mistake in my primary langage so sorry be gentle
Personnaly i think its microsoft and somme people at 343 (bonnie ross) who's to blaime. Cause if you look at 343 i dont see people who try to make bad halo game look at Tom French or Frank...etc. To me they look more like people who are force to make trendie halo game and to make them fast. Heck even bungie butcher the job with Reach, even do it was a decent game, to run away. (i dont think they are that better with activision.) Simply blaiming 343 wont go any where. what we need is to call out microsoft.
Favyn talks to U quite agressively, firts even I thought that: "Ah this guy is just one freaking piece of hater!" But actually he talks that way... A. It is part of his own personality. B. He knows that he has got a *good well researched and reasoned* argument and thats why he is pushing it so confidently! I love this channel!
offPlanet Uh no..we haven’t had a true Halo game since Halo 3.Have you watched Fav’s videos about how it hurts Halo overall and you still feel that way? I mean of course everyone has their right,but I’m tired of these upscaled maps so I have to sprint and then went I get into combat the map and sandbox isn’t properly cohesive with the engagement..it really shows.Combat is way more satisfying and unique in the older Halo games..I also miss watches corpses and vehicles fly across maps through man cannons..you know why man cannons are not in the game and other sandbox interactive? Sprint.
offPlanet hell no. Completely ruins the flow of some maps as well as gameplay mechanics. You can’t run and shoot anymore, you can run or shoot. Really devolves the gameplay.
Icy Fields\caves- All intractable sandbox elements glide on ice (weapons, equipment, players, grenades etc), Ice can break if enough wear is put on it and walking into the depths of where the ice once was kills you, Ice formations can be used as cover but again with enough damage the cover will break. Marshland\Swamp- Movement is slowed, players can crouch to hide from enemies in the water, players do not appear on radar when in marshland, staying underwater for too long will damage you but not kill you. Storm- All projectile objects are now affected by wind, player FOV is blurry , splatter hazard from random debris, radar is scrambled. Low Gravity- Player movement is slowed, jump height is increased, projectile objects move at a much slower pace, players can now thrust in any direction. Scorching Desert- Players take minimal DOT (damage over time) damage that can kill, Plasma weapons do more damage. Just a few ideas I had after watching. Anyways fantastic video as always Favyn, this is probably the best one yet, there is no opinions, the core of the video is objective and all around solves a big mystery for many supporters of the old and new trilogy. I myself never even considered what was said in this video and now it makes a ton of sense as to why I dislike new Halo over the old one. As some other subscriber said. If I had to show 343 one video it would be this one. Bravo
I agree with alot of what you said but in antigrav environments wouldnt there be less air resistance or none at all? I think projectiles would move faster! Great comment.
These are arguments that have percolated over the forums especially at Team Beyond for a long time. But it's great that we now have a succinct video encapsulating all of it. Everyone at 343 should watch this.
You pretty much got it. Bungie for the most part, added new stuff to their game w/o changing the core gameplay (Except for Reach) whereas 343 changed the core gameplay. Not only that, but even the philosophy behind their changes were different. Bungie's changes were genuine, innovative changes to the gampelay whereas 343's changes is them pretty much just trying to get a quick cash grab off of whatever's trending on other popular FPS games. Bungie's changes had integrity whereas 343's are devoid of it.
Not only do they change the game, but they're not as well designed as people make them out to be. Here are some of my complaints in the Spartan Abilities in Halo 5: *Sprint:* Here is the condensed argument against Sprint: Sprint is bad for Halo because it diverts focus away from Halo's core--shooting, jumping, and vehicles--to focus on Spartan mobility. A focus on mobility brings 343 Industries' attention towards making a game centered around the wrong style of shooter, one that is stop-and-go and frenetic in pace. When you give the player fast mobility (Moreso with the boost from thrusters) while retaining Halo's slow game design, you have to change many ways in which the game plays. Out of all the new mechanics added to Halo 5 to fuse speed with Halo, which one hasn't evolved as a means to curtail sprint's effect on Halo's gameplay? Nearly every design decision around sprint is an attempt to reign in sprint's changes to the Halo formula: Levels are larger, to accommodate for distances covered by Sprint; shields do not recharge when running, running stops when shot, to accommodate escapes easily afforded by Sprint; players die faster when they're shot at, to accommodate the short engagements created by sprint. Sprint fundamentally changes Halo because Halo was not designed around sprint, so designing sprint around Halo is equally absurd. *Spartan Charge:* Why is sprint's charge mechanic a problem for the player? Because it limits the actions he is able to perform in-game. If a player runs up behind someone, he must come to a halt (Fallout of sprint's animation) to melee and kill the guy in front of him. If he melees too soon, he might charge at him, which would only pop his shields while launching him far away, all while the charging player disorients himself. If in another situation, a player runs across a corner and an enemy appears to his right, his only option is to escape to then engage in a gun fight--he'll die if he turns to melee because he'll charge forward into the air instead. The casualty to the charge mechanic, therefore, is a player's liberty with melees. While melees are core to Halo, they are incompatible with Sprint, so 343 Industries said melees needed to change. A devaluation of melees marks a shift from Halo's gameplay of "run at a guy as you shoot him" into a gun-game of distance. In older Halos, a gun fight rarely ended until fists started to fly (Barring BR starts, but even then players still clobbered the snot out of each other). Melees were intrinsic to Halo, but as the game underwent incremental changes to fit sprint into Halo's formula, melees became a rarity in large levels and fast gunfights. The loss of melees is an example of a concession 343i made to Halo's gameplay in favor of Sprint, and 343i has made many gameplay concessions in Halo's design to make it work at speed. These concessions are the source for many of the design problems that Halo 5 suffers from, and almost all them stem from 343i's decision that Spartans should run and fly. *ADS/Smart Scope:* The different gun scopes look cool, but the scoping mechanic presents clear hurdles to gameplay by way of de-scoping and bullet spread. It is always beneficial for you to scope in your weapon in Halo 5 as it decreases your bullet spread, making your shots more accurate. Now, when you toggle to zoom in but get shot, you have to re-toggle to zoom back in. If you hold left trigger to zoom in but get shot, however, you automatically zoom back in so long as you keep holding left trigger. The advantage instant re-scoping gives a player over a manual re-scoping player decides fates: He shot better than you did because his bullets clustered tighter for longer. Every time he was shot, he scoped right back in while you did it manually. Between the natural bullet spread of the gun and the tightened spread of aim during moments you're scoped in, there's lots of fluctuation in where you're shooting and where your bullets land. This makes aiming feel out a player's control--almost random--and if the older Halo did one thing right, they made a player's weapons feel consistent. Ask yourself this: Why did the battle rifle become the weapon to define Halo's competitive scene? Because Halo felt good when a player knew his shots hit. With a BR, a player had full focus on playing the map and outplaying his opponents; his mind was free because his aim was never in doubt. But with 343i's implementation of ADS, a player doubts his guns. He begins to question the validity of gunfights, and every time he experiences things that he feels shouldn't have happened but did happen in a match, it bites away at his fun. It bites and bites, game after game until it eats a hole big enough in a player's mind that when he wants to play an FPS on his Xbox One, he cracks open the Titanfall 2 case instead. *Clamber:* Clamber hurt Halo 5's map design: Maps have no structure, no flow of movement. If you can clamber on top of every wall, then the vertical design of levels is compromised. Crouch-jumping was not just a neat trick players loved to do as they jumped, it helped them to go places faster and to create shortcuts to higher spots. But crouch jumping couldn't take you everywhere--if you wanted to get on top of the base in Blood Gulch, you had to walk up the ramps or go up the garage access. With Clamber, you can scale the front walls, or any other wall instantly. The player who took the high ground, therefore, is at no real advantage to the player on the low ground. The distance between them can be covered far too quickly. In order to preserve map-flow, levels must be made longer for Sprint and taller for Clamber, thus the giant level designs we see in Halo 5. But making a map bigger does not give it structure, and such design does little to alleviate the chaotic nature of battling against clambering Spartans. Despite the quicker gameplay of fast Spartans, H5's matches play out slower than in Halos before it because 343 Industries builds infinite escape paths into maps, and such map design promotes a defensive game. The larger arenas also ruin map control. Anyone can be anywhere else at any time--they could clamber up the ledge behind you right now--so why hold positions on the map? Take the sniper and move, keep moving and stay on the lookout for enemies who are running around, looking for you. No location is any safer than anywhere else because Spartans can run, thrust, or climb everywhere. It's tiring to run so much and disheartening to see so many enemies flee from your gunfire and survive.
how many Halo games need to be made with sprint before you give up on your quest to get rid of it. Its utterly dumb that you are suppose to be a super soldier and you simply lazily walk around the map. Same is true for clamber. with that said spartan charge and boost are just too much. simply because it complicates the game too much thus less people are going to want to play. casuals can wrap their heads around sprinting and clambering. While spartan charge and boost is just 2 too many variable to deal with.
@spartanx169x 169of300 You know what's also utterly dumb? Adding sprint as a base mechanic after 4 games of not having it. You know what's utterly dumb? Making games follow the basis of logic and reality rather than creativity to instill variety. I will never wrap my head around why people still use this argument. If we were super soldiers in reality, why aren't we able to cook grenades, wrestle and kick players, survive under water, or sprint while maintaining the ability to shoot. If we were super soldiers, we should be able to do many things, but not everything, similar to sprint and clamber is compatible with Halo. Spartan Charge co-exists with sprint. You take it out, you get something worse, double melees. It shows that sprint isn't compatible with one of Halo's fundamental mechanics, melee. You not what else sprint and also clamber isn't compatible with? The original map design.
Lets just be honest here, It puts you at a disadvantage for whatever reason hence you don't like it. People can get away from you or people can run up on you . Its one of the two that you simply can't handle hence why you don't like it. I will freely admit I despise spartan charge because i hate being blindsided turning a corner with no means of a counter move. Can you admit it the disadvantage it does to you? I will also admit I like sprint because they make the maps biggerit puts me at an advantage. I like Clmber because it puts me at an advantage. very simple.
You've convinced me. I've always argued with you on these points in these prior videos because you didn't explain it a way that emphasizes the differences. Now you did and yeah it makes a lot of sense.
Zumbagify Nah. He's someone who really loves the new Halo games (and probably the old Halo games) who didn't think it was necessary for it to go back to Halo 3 gameplay until he saw how the sandbox worked from this video. He isn't stupid. Please, imagine me saying this in the most reasonable, nicest way possible.
Zumbagify It's hard for someone especially nowadays to realize they're wrong. I used to be -an adventurer like you then I took an arrow in the knee- a 343 fanboy, and I definitely understand them and how it can take some time to fully understand the other side's arguments and convert.
IDEA: imagine if there was a part of a map that was pitch black and required you to either turn your light on and reveal your position or keep it off but not know where you're going
Super late but that reminds me of a section in Spv3's pillar of autumn that is pitch black, and filled with explosive canisters. The only way to see is to trace enemy plasma shots or use your own weapon fire for light. (Never mind the night vision you can get right before)
This video right here... This video may change the fate of Halo. The fate of the fps genre, the fate of gaming as a whole. I just hope 343 has the courage to step back and re-evaluate themselves - Change our design philosophy and sacrifice our gameplay and lore continuity? Or keep our design philosophy and gameplay for the sake of lore and continuity? Spartans no longer have sprinting and thrusters anymore. How do we make that work? Is that even a question worth worrying about at this point? It's a tricky situation, but to me the answer is clear.
Uncompetative That's pretty not canon. At all. Cortana would need to directly patch onto mjolnir to control it, like with a chip or something. Besides, both Osiris and Blue Team wear mjolnir gen 2, just different iterations of the suit. Also, controlling the suit doesn't mean they're under mind control. If you're talking about hacking neural implants, Chief would be far more suceptabl to hacking since Cortana is familiar with his implants (I also don't think an implant is even connected to the internet, or any broadcasting service.) Also, why would Cortana send Locke when she has the Guardians? Just send one down to Chief and Bam! No more Chief. Oh, and Buck wouldn't turn tail on the unsc just because done crazy AI took over and the UNSC sure as hell wouldn't let a single Spartan go out on vacation during a crisis like this.
"The fate of the fps genre" Ugh, not this again... Believe me when I say Halo is NOT the most important fps, tyere are others carrying that weight more than it, like DOOM and the last game was a big win. I say Halo has a good template again (I say again because ofbthe first Doom games)
How about expanding upon the microgravity situations by having some maps with traversable ceilings? For example, a map like Chiron-TL34 can have a section where players walk on the ceiling, so there are players on the ceiling and the floor. The core mechanics are still identical, but the interactions are different. Perhaps the ceilings have strong electromagnetic fields, which allow players to cling to them.
One thing that Halo Reach nailed with the abilities was that you could only have one at a time. Sure you got increased speed with sprint, but at the cost of the increased mobility of jet pack, the dodging of evade, the invincibility of armor lock, the... Nothing of invisibility, and the trolling of hologram.
not just having only one at a time but that everyone (including the opposing team) had access to the same abilities and can change into any of them after death. reach gets a lot of crap for introducing loadouts but at least bungie kept it simple. guns and grenades were the same for all of them. of course there are exceptions like invasion and infection but those were just game types
Nicely done, Favyn! You make a video just like LNG having to do with the sandbox mechanics. I am very, very impressed with this idea. This is something I never thought of.
+Nathan Freeman thanks! Though I don't recall LNG doing a sandbox video. I've seen most of his commentaries and don't recall him doing that topic. What was it called?
Just found your channel and I must say you just earned another sub. Even though I have slight disagreements with few of your points, the video is clearly well thought & hits spot on in the key aspects of what has to change/what has been wrongly changed already. 343's biggest sin was to aim carelessly for innovation without first looking at what they had inherited and protecting its core in the look out for those innovations. They had it all served, the formula is and has always been there, they simply lacked creativity and the capacity to look at the full picture.
Wow, just wow. Most just come out with senseless hate, but you've given criticism, and some phenomenal advice. Just, wow. This video is absolutely amazing! I can't tell you how excited I'd be if this is what the next Halo was like. This video is perfect! You've just earned a sub!
You actually explained why I loved Reach so much, is that because the game was designed with that modular mindset, the community and hell, even random people could come up with gameplay scenarios, design them with ease, and have complete control over the sandboxes they create. Whenever I design something for Halo 5, I actively have to think about whether I should limit the buildspace I'm making or detract from the core movement mechanics, which makes things just...muddy. I'm sure you'll go over this soon like you stated
I beg to differ. At least you can time out someone using Armor Lock and then kill him. Spartan Charge is just bullshit. " Oh look at me! I can sprint in a room at someone then shoulder bash him! I'm so damn good! "
Storm Bringer777 you can meele a sholder charge dude and kill them with a pistol shot before the animation endes, armor lock was annoying with"you have a sword? too bad" armor lock then emp and a meelee plus no bleed through created a conplete bs moment where you basically cheat death, and sword dude dies.
"Give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for a lifetime" 343i is the guy that didn't bother to show up and wonders why they are hungry.
Barack Obama He was referring to the average fans that you find in RUclips comments and forums which for the most part ends up in cancerous dribble and people fighting over their opinions, which he isn't wrong.
This is what we need, people giving 343 advice and not just critizicing the heck out of them. and let's remember one thing. It's not 343 that is killing Halo (atleast not mostly responsible imo), it's Microshit.
John D. And the comunity,is one if the most toxic comunity what i saw,lol,when i started to play LoL i was frightened but not was a Big deal,it's the same of halo but more frecuent
Fantastic video. Halo has almost no room for innovating base mechanics and 343 designers have acknowledged this on several occasions, but they still crossed that line and added too many "obstacles" that took power away from the design process.
I agree with everything you said and I like the points and ideas that you brought up, but try repeating yourself less. It makes for a more condensed, efficient and attractive video. Keep up the good work!
+Anthony H it's tough because I kinda repeated myself intentionally but with a little different point. This is a bit complicated and I felt the need to reinforce it a bit more than most topics.
+Anthony H it's tough because I kinda repeated myself intentionally but with a little different point. This is a bit complicated and I felt the need to reinforce it a bit more than most topics.
One innovation introduced in Halo 5 that I like was changing seats in the Warthog while riding it. One time I was driving a Warthog and my friend had a Rocket Launcher and we were going to town with him switching between the turret and rockets. EDIT: Oh didn't realize you mentioned this at first.
Imagine if clamber remains in the game, but the environment dynamically affects the players ability to climb. For instance, slick or crumbly surfaces will prevent clamber, while those surfaces covered in pipes or vegetation will allow for ladder-like climbing ability.
I’ve been rewatching a lot of your old videos recently in lieu of your reflection video, but this one really stood out. As a kid (i was 16 when this was uploaded) i wasn’t as observant nor understanding as i am now, and i never realized the integrity of this video I will go on record saying i have never played Halo 5, nor do i ever want to because i hate the mechanics. But your video really opened my eyes of just how integral dynamic elements to a map are. Take Zanzibar, for example. You have the spinning wheel, the falling maintenance bridge, the CTRL-F-U computer that lowers the barriers, and obviously the fusion coils. This added so much to the map, and what made it so amazing Waterworks is another that comes to mind. You can break the stalactites to kill other players, and just utilize its attributes to gain higher positions, not to mention the fact that if you have 50% gravity for players and vehicles, you can actually be sent flying due to the piston in the center of the map Dynamic map elements and interactive map elements are quintessential for an outstanding map, in my opinion, and even in Halo 4, they are lacking Interactive elements, in my opinion, are vehicles, grav lifts, man canons, and button cues. This hasn’t just worked for Halo, either, as it really improved the early CoD Zombies experience. The way i see it, developers aren’t fixing what isn’t broken, they’re breaking something to then fix it haphazardly
343 HAS to see this! I actually agree with his argument now when I usually disagree. also, if halo 6 had arena no abilities but warzone is just like halo 5. since Forge isn't for warzone and neither is custom games, couldn't that please a lot of people? most people would play sprintless arena and most who want fast mobility are in warzone
+Lightsaber I like abilities in custom games as they make for some interesting modes, but I strongly believe ALL abilites aside from power ups should be absent from arena matchmaking.
No way. This only splits the game. In this game mode, you have an entirely different set from gameplay than this game mode. Why do you have an abundant of vehicles like the Mongoose with you at all times? To reach areas faster. I also think Warzone could utilize things like teleporters or man cannons more often. The game needs to be accessible and flexible all throughout.
Favyn has covered that sort of idea before, and I agree with him in that that sort of split would ruin the continuity of the game and fracture the community even more
i actually wanna expand on the whole "adaptive gameplay" you tossed in, why not add cryo nades that freeze the surfaces it's tossed onto, making vehichles slide like on ice, and allowing for that ice based momentum, a-la tribes. or a Zero-G nade, which disables gravity in an area and makes vehichles and items float around, while dealing enough damage when it wears off for some nice rocketjump style mobility. hell, you could probably tie the latter to a nade designed for spartans who had the tendancy to use explosives to propel themselves with a minimal damage knockback nade
I can already see a custom game following from that innovation: Zero G Rockets. Without ground splash damage, rocket fights would be a heck of a lot more engaging.
This video deserves so much more views that it currently has. Fantastic breakdown of the inherent issues with the current design method and its causative effects to the game play dynamic!
miguel mata This! We as a community NEEEEEEED to get this message to 343i so at the very least they understand what many of the players think of the design philosophy in Halo and what truly could be the saving grace for the multilayer in future titles. Even if it's not this video in particular, other videos and articles, etc... If we agree with this message, I think it goes without saying that we need to each do our part. Our voice is stronger in numbers!
I think a DooM/Quake/Half Life style sprint would work best. Where you can be constantly sprinting at no expense to your combat effectiveness thus making the gameplay much more fastpaced, but still fair and balanced.
this would probably be the happiest medium between the no sprint and sprint debate. but it is ultimately still impacting how one scales a map for the gameplay. it's better than anything else we have, but by no means perfect.
i like what SPV3 did with changing maps and weapons in the sandbox. there was a battery found on some parts of the maps that could recharge plasma weapons when near them, but overheat them if you stay too close for too long.
Ghost Reportin' this is correct. Everyone bitches about games staying the same and adding incremental improvements, but most franchises tend to nosedive when they make fundamental changes.
Why not try to make a Sonic Generations-style Halo game where classic and modern meets each other? If the Halo Formula changes fundamentally, then Microsoft should use a kind of Power Rangers-style marketing system to highlight different formula ideas or something like that, if they are to market/branch the shit out of their franchise/games.
This was a well structured argument. Before this video, I thought that the "classics" guys were just stuck in the past but after seeing this, I can see where you are coming from. Though I do not agree with absolutely everything you said, I think this video is a great argument for the other side and has changed my outlook on many things. I agree with your statement on the way base mechanics can control the game more than the creators and I think your video has made me reconsider the usefulness of clamber and ground pound in Halo. Well done and keep up the good work. You have me as a subscriber.
I've said it before, I'll say it again... There's many things that are needed to "revive" Halo... But what it boils down to, is bring back that feel that the classics have. One step that is ESSENTIAL, and is very simple... Bloom
Which classic, CE was different than 2 which was different than 3. No two games have been alike. 2 and 3 were similar, but the projectile crap in H3 was just that crap. they have not done it since so they won't now. Aim is what needs to be fixed. IT was perfect for every single game except for 5 which is still not right and can't be fixed. Its playable, that all I will say,. But it was enough to run away players.
@spartanx169x 169of300 I can't understand how projectile was crap. People complained about the BR being to prominent and Bungie did well, while not perfectly, to reduce its effectiveness by making it inconsistent to require more skill and better aiming. I can understand being a nuisance in worse connections, and that is where it needed improvements, but aside from that, I think Halo 3 had the best version of the BR
Halo 1-3 had some differences, but they shared a similar gameplay style. The differences between them was mild and subtle, changes were made very sparingly. Halo 4 and Halo 5… they're a lot more on the extreme end. They tried to cram as many changes as was humanly possible, even trying to drastically alter what the game was about (H4 with its COD-esque mechanics, H5 with its parkour/platforming-style of movement). Yes, both "eras" offered changes, but there were differences in how it was handled, and thats undeniable.
Uncompetative: valid points. But you got to admit halo was a good halo game. I don't like the idea of sprint in halo games. But I do think reach did it in a good way. You have so much other gadgets than just sprint. like the jet pack drop shield. and the dreadful armor lock. I didn't have a problem with armor lock btw. all these things gave sprint a run for it's money. Reach brought a cool concept with the class system. unless you were playing invasion or something you just had the same guns. You didn't need sprint. I just noticed I talked about sprint the whole time lol. anyways I wish we could have a classic halo experience done right again. Reach and down. and yes I put reach in their cause I wouldn't mind another reach halo. even though I like the classics equally. I also like h4 just because it still felt like somewhat halo. halo 5 is just that game I play because it's the only fps halo with a descent pop. god halo 5 is awful
Great arguments Favyn. Very professional, to the point, and very well explained. Instead of some youtubers who but their time and effort into their intros and editing, you put that effort into your script/arguments. I love it.
Halo 5 would've been so good without all the spartan abilities, sprint, and thrust nonsense. Now it sits at 20th on XBL after a year and a half. Pathetic.
Great job articulating this point! It's something I've seen come up a lot in Halo debates, 'how to innovate?', but I've never seen it explained quite this well before.
as a fan of the newer games I really enjoy your ideas. I love halo 5 and I love halo 3 as well I don't care what style is used as long as it's halo and will become more popular than it is now
Spitting gospel. Halo Reach would have been fantastic if armor abilities were just a natural evolution of equipment, but Bungie decided to experiment with ideas for Destiny and fucked it up.
As a guy who mowed lawns when he was 11 until he could afford to buy the original Xbox for the sole purpose of buying Halo 1 and who again only purchased the Xbox One for the MCC (and didn't even install Halo 5 until a month after buying it because I was so sure I'd hate it...) I actually had A LOT of fun with Halo 5. Warzone was boring after a month but I had a lot of fun with everything else. Honestly, that's the base of what a game should be. Fun. That's all I care about. Call me a casual if you want but I HAVE been with the series since day one and I'm a massive Halo fan. I enjoyed the Spartan abilities. Sue me.
I agree that it is all about fun and even tho halo 5 is fun it isnt the way a halo game delivers fun. I have more fun when i play the trilogy games because they are so unique and no other game does what they do. Also im a casual player too
Damn. A bit late that I found the video; but I never saw it that way. Always thought that 343 new elements were simply bad design choices; never thought they we fundamentally different implementations. Nice video! You've really changed the way I look at these games now.
Now with this one I'm just going to have to say I flatout disagree. I don't really consider map designs innovation or differentiation in a game. Going "oh well we'll put a weapon or mechanic in this particular spot or map and that way if people don't like it we'll just revert it back" is just for lack of a better term a blatant copout to me to avoid resistance to change. Essentianlly what you describe to me is just rehashing the same halo game every release at it's core with different maps with different optional weapons or properties on movement or the way the enviroment functions and at that point there is basically no point in even MAKING a sequel when if you're not going to add anything to the base core formula you coulda add all that to the last game as dlc and it would basically about to the same thing. Using Devil May Cry as an example Dante's combat styles in 3 are not options the developers could backpeddle on in case people didnt like them. They were a permanent mechanic that HAD to be used if you wanted to be rewarded with more points and orbs, blue crystals ect. Otherwise you'd get low scores from using the same 2 moves and might be able to beat the game but with far less upgrades making it harder on yourself. Using RE4 as an example again, alot of people like to argue it still carries the core gameplay loop of RE 1-3 when the fact of the matter is it changed it significantly. Classic RE was designed around ammo conservation. Ammo placement is fixed you're encouraged to run from a fight not engage the enemy. Resident Evil 4 on the other hand encourages fighting above all else and will literally feed you more ammo through drops especially as your ammo gets lower. They couldn't backpeddle to the same formula for the game if people didn't like it. Batman Arkham City is not Batman Arkham Asylum 2. There is a whole new layer of core mechanics that change the game's identity: Grapnel Boosting, ultra stuns, beatdowns, dive bomb gliding ect ect. I disagree with the idea that a series is not allowed to change it's core and add to the formula to create a new experience or it's a bad thing and something is lost as the years go by. I also disagree with the idea that that map design or adding and taking weapons into those maps counts as innovating anything at all because at it's core its not a sequel, it becomes a rehash nothing at its base warrants a new number in the title. Sticking to your formula that because you don't want to disgruntle your old fanbase and have them adapt to new things is no way to carry your game if you expect your sequel to be bigger, better you can not ignore the industry changes and expectations just because it pacifies your hardcore fans. That's how you end up in shenmu 3's predicament.
He’s not saying u can’t experiment with new mechanics. But it has to make sense with the already existing formula. A good example of a good addition is the ability to switch seats in vehicles. Try new weapon and abilities on map. New modes that are innovative. There are so many other areas to change than the core formula
Also the industry change is to just be different at this point. Halo 4 and 5 proved that alterations to Halo’s formula rn does not work. And like I said before, it doesn’t mean 343 can’t experiment. But it has to make sense. Forcing a mechanic in that the og fan base has rejected for 3 games now does not make sense. Trying to rip off mechanics from other games don’t make sense. U use Arkham games to back ur point, but all of the Arkham games share the same formula, their additions and changes make sense within that formula. It still maintained it identity.
@@kingorange7739 "halo 4 and 5 proved that alterations to halo's formula does not work" I beg to differ. 343 does not care if the OG fans reject mechanics because the OG fanbase alone is not going to keep this series afloat. You cater to the OG fanbase alone without modernizing to change with the market and your game becomes shenmue 3. Sprint has been in halo for more games than it hasn't at this point. It's not going away. They know they have a fanbase for it and its the kind of game THEY want to make so they'll let the loudest voices from 2007 scream into the air for it's removal all they want. The harsh reality is that even if halo "ogs" left this series 343 has been building an entirely new modern fanbase over the last 8 years. They're not going to rehash halo 3 every time they make a new halo especially when Halo 3 there are 2 different ways to play halo 3 for those ogs that just can't move on.
@@TeryonTheHuman "I beg to differ." - Really, which Halo game sold more copies and maintained a higher population than Halo 3? "343 does not care if the OG fans reject mechanics because the OG fanbase alone is not going to keep this series afloat." - Really, because it would seem they are the only one still carrying it afloat. Plus I do not think that 8 million just disappeared out of nowhere. "You cater to the OG fanbase alone without modernizing to change with the market and your game becomes shenmue 3." - Define modernizing. Sprint is not a needed mechanic to be modern. No mechanic is. "Sprint has been in halo for more games than it hasn't at this point." - Um Halo 1,2,3 ODST - Without sprint Halo Reach - There as an ability Halo 4,5, and probably Infinite - There as a base mechanic. Also saying that only adds to my point since removing would be the interesting route while keeping it would be the stagnant thing to do. "It's not going away." - Congratulations, u must be a prophet. "They know they have a fanbase for it" - U mean the fanbase that does not even touch the numbers of where Halo 3 was at? "and its the kind of game THEY want to make" - Which would be fine if it was not for a simple problem. 343 did not make Halo, they amulated it and the community that came with it. And as such, the franchise does not completely belong to their vision and failing to read the numbers and understand what the community wants will only further dig their grave. They can only make the game "they want to make" if it is successful. Not when it is treated like a joke and has population less than half of what Halo 3 had. "so they'll let the loudest voices from 2007 scream into the air for it's removal all they want." - And u think that is going away? Whether u want to admit it or not, 343 is running out of options. How many times are they seriously going to try to make "their Halo" as if they even know what Halo should be, before they give us what they want. Because the numbers speak for themselves. And now, when their resorting to the tactics of a Indie developer. U know just how much of the shit their in. Halo use to be on the top, now they resort to free to play just to desperately get people to play their game. But nah fam, Halo is perfectly fine. "The harsh reality is that even if halo "ogs" left this series 343 has been building an entirely new modern fanbase over the last 8 years." - U mean less than half of what Halo use to have? Also it ain't the new fans keeping their games alive. Halo 4 and 5 are effectively dead, and MCC is made up of, u guessed it. The OGs. If all the OGs left. Halo would be dead. Plain and simple. That is why Halo is dying because each year more and more OG fans give up on this nearly doomed franchise. And even I have almost given up. The problem is not going away and because of 343's lack of competence and consistency. They cannot properly build an experience for new fans to rely behind. Given every one of their games keeps pressing the reset button. "They're not going to rehash halo 3 every time they make a new halo" - We don't want a Halo 3 rehash. We want a new Halo game with new maps, weapons, modes, sandbox, and campaign built around Halo's original principles and formula. Halo 1,2, and 3 all had the same formula yet were vastly different games. It is no different here. Also calling every person who wants the OG formula back "wanting Halo 3 rehash" is just as dishonest as calling every fan who likes modern mechanics, wanting a Halo 4 or 5 rehash. It cuts both ways. "especially when Halo 3 there are 2 different ways to play halo 3 for those ogs that just can't move on." - BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER HALO 3!!!! That is not what this is about. Don't u think that if Halo 3 was all it took to satisfy us, that we would just stick there and have no problem? NO! We have a problem because we don't want Halo 3, we want a new Halo game. A new, TRUE, Halo game. That is not hard to understand.
Your idea with the ice, the zero g, in areas, is EXACTLY what halo needs, and doesnt change what works... Its a shame 343 hasnt thought about these techniques and ideas u came up with... U gave a perfect example man, kudos
I actually like the Armor Abilities in Reach and Halo 4 as it allowed players to each have a different ability and variant on playstyles and if the abilities weren't wanted then that's fine...except Halo 4 made sprint a main feature...didn't like that.
Great to see that instead of continuing that comment thread with me you decided to make a in-depth video explains by every point. That's how it's done, keep it that way and continue the good work. (Still don't like equipment though)
I think Spartan charge and clamber ruin the game the most. Clamber more so. I absolutely hate it. Ruins the flow of the map entirely and slows gameplay.
+Mørkskogg I actually like clamber, I've wanted it in Halo since Reach, mainly for Parkour Forge courses, it doesn't really ruin the game for me in mm.
megaman37456 I can see where that can add to something like that and I wouldn't want that to be taken away. I think it should be taken out of the core gameplay and the main multiplayer maps shouldn't be made around it so you can freely jump around and maneuver the map.
Honestly the most perfect discussion video I've seen in a long while. This video is amazing and I really hope it reaches and has an impact on those working at 343i
Favyn great video you made me change my opinion on sprint in halo and other games like halo like titanfall 2 or far cry etc why doesn't halo evolve to doom style again hey favyn what would you think of if halo had a weapon gun wheel like doom
Personally I think Halo 5 has the best MP we've seen since halo 3 and is by far the most competitive. My main problem with this video is pretending 343 caused all these issues, instead of it starting with reach because I would certainly rather play H5's MP than reach MP.
+Jarek4Gaming when in this video ever say reach was ok? I always referred to "the trilogy" when making my points or "the later games". And I even said "reach started this with armor abilities" If that was your main problem with the video it seems a little....petty.
Who the fuck gives about the problems of Reach anymore? The game is 6 years old, almost 7. Should we discuss the recent game and its problems or should we discuss a that wasn't even made by the same studio? Go figure.
Nailed it Favyn. Like many other comments said, if I had to choose 1 video to show 343i, it would be this one. Solid, well thought out argument with concrete examples. Great job my dude.
Well, the political compass test on my profile pic is just for a meme, I'm not actually that far right and authoritarian. I'm center-libertarian and hold both liberal and conservative viewpoints on different issues. I love Ben because of how he constructs his arguments and his rationality.
Andrew Forte That's awesome. I am not really strictly a conservative. I want to maintain our freedoms but as long as it doesn't hurt freedom am open to different views and ideas; but most of the liberal ideas kind of take away freedom soooo...
![Clave Especial x Fuerza Regida - No Pasa Nada [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3u2jaju71IQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Bro I think you nailed the direction that Halo's Multiplayer should (possibly with more thought) go in. Gameplay that adapts to the player! Imagine if Spartan's changed based on the environment their in! Imagine their abilities change with the terrain, this would open up endless options and would be something I've never seen in another shooter. I think you've got a million dollar idea here, dude.
+The Act Man thanks man :)
The Act Man that would be revolutionary
The Act Man so is he bro or dude🤔
They’re
@@mylescarpenter-chess2875 no, "their" is correct here
Very very good video. Pretty much sums up the issues halo 5's sandbox suffers from.
Why are vehicles not in slayer? Sprint
Why are teleporters gone? Sprint
Why are grav lifts gone? Clamber
Why do all the maps play exactly the same? Spartan abilities
The key to halo's future is the map design and sandbox, not changing the gameplay of the player.
LateNightGaming - Video Game News & Entertainment pretty much if just needs to revert to a classic style
But there are grav lifts in quite a few maps. Clamber can't boost you up 20 feet. But a grav lift can. Not every wall is scale able. That is due to barriers created by the map designer.
Though, I do think 343 should go back to the old Halo because it has been 10 years and a new one is due.
I really love Halo 5 even though it is different. Most of the things people attack Halo 5 for is just for it being different or changes in gameplay, but the changes and gameplay itself aren't bad.
It is starting to get on my nerves with all these people saying that Halo 5 is a bad game.
The old Halos and the new Halos are among my favorite games and both sides of the Halo community are attacking one of these games and I passionately defend both, it makes it really hard to pick side. It sucks.
Yeah, also I miss the power up orbs scattered around the map. Reach only has them for Anniversary playlist games, I wished 343 would release some maps for Reach in the other playlists that have the power orbs.
LateNightGaming I disagree and will thoroughly explain why.
First off why are you asking for vehicles in Slayer. Did you ask for vehicles in The Pit, Lockout or Guardian? and BTW Halo 5 does have Grav Lifts. WTH?!!!
Seriously both those statements read like you were just hating for the sake of hating.
Halo 5 is most certainly not perfect but by God have they created the best Weapon Sandbox in the series.
I know we all loved the good old days when mastery of the BR was above all weapons but think critically and tell me if that's not an unbalanced Weapon Sandbox? IT IS! If one weapon trumps all others in most scenarios then what the heck is the point of putting weapons on the map?
I'm not going to write a book but I challenge you to speak on the weapon sand box. Speak on how meaningful it is to actually have to use the weapons on the map as opposed simply walking past them because you already have a BR/DMR (Halo 2, 3, Reach).
Speak on what it's like to actually have a decent weapon to start with as opposed to bare AR starts. What's it mean to you to have a decent but not overpowered pistol for the first time since Halo CE?
There might be weapons that are meaningless but by large Halo 5 forces you to learn to work with different weapons more so than any other game in the series and that's a good thing.
Something else occurred to me. Elongation and all of its interesting and unique gameplay applications, was in free DLC. Enhancing the sandbox is something that doesn't require a full sequel to do. Meanwhile, for all of Halo 5's post-launch content, while its cool, none of it stands out to me. Because nothing is able to equate to the shift introduced by changing the fundamentals of gameplay (thrusters, clamber, etc).
Raycevick Nice seeing you here also you ever consider doing a video on the elder scrolls games
Just keep preaching it!
The custom games browser was a stand out feature for me.
Blackwing799 I agree
For your point at 14:29, believe it or not, but Reach actually implemented Armor Abilities in a way that _could_ be controlled. (They simply weren't controlled in most standard playlists.) But take for example, the MLG playlist. Armor abilities worked completely differently there because they were disabled as spawn traits, but were on the map as pickups, (basically like equipment from Halo 3, and OS and Camo from the first three games.) These new additions to the game (that completely broke the base game in standard playlists and turned so many people away) were _still_ implemented in a way such that they _could_ be removed if they broke things.
I think this is one of the reasons why I claim to have liked Reach when so many others didn't: because I didn't play much of the game with standard settings. I only ever played in playlists and custom games where AAs were disabled, or had a specific purpose. This just goes to reinforce your point that Bungie implemented new features in a modular way, but the other guys are implementing changes that cannot be disabled if you don't like them.
And you know how easy it would be to let us change these things? Just put them in the settings for fuck's sake! That was Reach's true strength: how insanely vast and customizable its settings were. They were so customizable in fact, that it actually takes some practice to navigate the Reach settings menus and remember where everything is. But new games are taking away our access to these settings.
Why? Fucked if I know.
+Hokiebird428 there's more to it than just "removing them from the settings" though.
There sure is. Like I said, Bungie managed the base game of Reach rather poorly. You need to give us the options, but also manage those settings appropriately in the situations where we can't change them ourselves. For the new games, they're just all on, all the time.
You made me realize something. Think about how dangerous awesome it would be if ground pound was only attached to the gravity hammer.
Interesting.
That actually sounds really neat, would be hard to balance though
archerassassin8 well it a power weapon so just limit it like you did with rocket (that thing is aslo strong).
now THAT sounds bad ass and adds a new layer to the gravity hammer so it doesn’t feel like a sword clone. That’s how you innovate!
That's exactly the type of thinking this series needs.
I genuinely think this is the best video you've made to date (not that I disliked your videos before, I just think this builds on everything you've said up to this point)! It addresses the issues you've discussed before in a concrete, example-based way (or at least it fleshed out some of those ideas better while keeping them completely relevant to Halo), acknowledged the variety of opinions people have regarding different mechanics and why that's relevant to how the mechanics are implemented (again with several specific examples), presented the argument such that it can appeal to 343/Microsoft on both a moral AND pragmatic standpoint, and even gave a couple fun suggestions to implement such changes going forward. Fantastic video Favyn! :D
Eltaccos Neczy me too 😂😂
D Vice they are aim assist in different ways.
halo 5 uses a lot of what is called "magnetism" where your reticle isn't pulled as much but your shots are "magnetized towards your target" . and that's on top of weapons being hitscan.
in halo 3, there was average aim assist (subtle reticle assistance) and the magnetism only effected 1 of the 3 BR shots (which had very little impact)
the halo 3 BR also had a large spread and it was projectile based meaning it actually fired an object from the weapon that had to travel and collide with the hitbox. this meant you had to lead your shots.
that's not something that can be replicated or tested by just shooting at a spartan that is standing still.
honestly dude it's OK to like Halo 5. nothing in this video says it's bad.
they're just different. sorry it took so long to respond, I got busy :)
Your still alive!
Favyn, if I had one video to show 343 it would be this. This video describes the true core of Halo's problems and the vision of what Halo should be. Great work man. I may share this on the Waypoint Forums.
+upton889 please do :)
Thank you!
100% agree. In fact, this quality of analysis would yield quite the salary to an employee
It'll probably be taken down by a monitor. I'm calling it.
Rogue HellJumper it was moved from general discussion (high traffic area - where I originally posted) to community creations (low traffic area), even though this is a discussion video meant to promote discussion. So, basically you are correct lol.
This is a proof of how people aren't incline to change and don't want to think too much.
Hari Seldon and Saint-Exupéry were right!
I like how you're also starting to account benefits your ideas can be to the developers themselves. I really liked that in the video about how Halo 6 can't satisfy everyone and I loved it's inclusion here. You don't just throw ideas by thinking they're "cool". You also see if they work in a developers point of view.
Klasse ¿cuantas copas tenes vos?
Favyn, I wish you were head of the gameplay design of Halo because the direction in which you theoretically talk about potential future Halo titles gets me excited thinking this is what is going to be a reality even though sadly chances of that are slim because, no offense to 343i, but they are one stubborn company. I'm a computer science major that wants to do a lot with video game design and has taken a lot of inspiration from Halo's titles 1-3, and have learned a lot about how much Bungie did right with those titles versus how much 343i has done wrong with 4 and 5. Watching this whole video made me think outside of the box on how a video game really should be made and how much of the little things 343i could do with Halo without drastically changing the original golden Halo formula. Really appreciate you making all of these videos, all of us Halo fans really just want what's best for the franchise and everything you rant and talk about is right on the money.
+Botheredhat360 I have haha
+Botheredhat360 It's not easy to get a job at 343i, nevertheless to get an interview
Here's how I understood this (simplified)
If you have a shitty tool, all you have to do is go get a better one and throw the old one away.
but if you have, say, a shitty hand (and let's pretend prostetics don't exist) you can't just chop it off and get a better one, you're stuck with it forever, and if you cut it off, well then you have no hand at all.
Which would you prefer, a shitty tool or a shitty hand?
Riotous Rebel hahahahaha yes i love this
Not to mention the fact that even if you can't throw that tool away (Since it's company property), you can simply elect not to use it, or even achieve marginally identical results with other tools.
An excellent analogy!
Botheredhat360 I wish.
What if you're a shitty tool?
Warthog seat switching was exactly the type of natural innovation and evolution desired by fans (and "Bungie purists," too!). It's the "Press X to swap ally's weapon" of Halo 5. There are many things that 343i does right, little glimpses of the company's full potential, thanks for (hopefully) helping to push them in the right direction, Favyn! Great video.
MediumGreySky Eh, I feel that it discourages teamwork. The warthog was the icon of teamwork in videogames, and now it's perfectly viable on it's own. A little sad really.
@@Dave_Chrome what? Bruh it still is. You were trippin when you posted this
@@crusadrian5010 Yeah, I was lol
@@Dave_Chrome lol
@@Dave_Chrome 🗿
Possibly your best video ever favyn, excellent fucking video, excellent fucking presentation. Good job
+Kell Of Scots thanks man, I'm glad you liked it!
Wow you are the voice the Halo community needs
in that scenario with capture the flag, ice, and the bubble shield.... i would be the guy to toss the bubble shield at the flag carrier. I really like that idea
It would be hard to get the angle at which you throw it because you would have to make sure the flag carrier can be within he shield at all times, and that would make all the more satisfying when you pull it off. :)
At your carrier or the enemy one?
Great video. Well articulated! -GS
It's easy to tell that you're tired of arguing against the same type of morons after every video, so you made sure to crush any of them in this one. This is the definitive video: the cumulative argument against New Halo after years of community debate. This is where we take the fight to them. This is what we stand for.
Interaction over base mechanics. Reminds me of Breath of the Wild. You don't have a ton of buttons to press, you have a ton of places to go and environments to interact with.
The section on not liking maps is so true. I hate Snowbound on H3 but I still love the game as a whole. With Halo 5 I realized that I don't like a lot of the maps for the same reasons.
McCarney 420 Am I the only player who liked Snowbound :'(
+Dave Chrome I hated snowbound dude. I remember getting that map 3 or 4 times in a row in halo3.
you explain things so perfectly you could probably give people the logic plague
Bungie changed how you could interact with the sandbox, 343i changed how the sandbox had to be designed.
Have you ever play a game call Halo Reach by any chance. If not let me remind you what bungie ad that changed the core gameplay and make the people at the time frustreted. No more fair start with equipment, new bloom mechanic with the dmr who replace the br, no br, no dual weilding. But the real probleme with 343 games is the lack of polishe and quailty that make bungie rep and also that halo 3/half life 2 sandbox.
But to be fair, what i think append at 343 is that they are trying to do too much and are force to cut corner to meet there deathline. Like bungie with halo 2
devlopment.
Plus the trend in fps lately is to go back to the root so not all hope is lost ;)
p.s I even make alot of mistake in my primary langage so sorry be gentle
I agree. Bungie made the same mistake with Reach that 343 did with Halo 4 and 5 but not as extreme
Personnaly i think its microsoft and somme people at 343 (bonnie ross) who's to blaime. Cause if you look at 343 i dont see people who try to make bad halo game look at Tom French or Frank...etc.
To me they look more like people who are force to make trendie halo game and to make them fast.
Heck even bungie butcher the job with Reach, even do it was a decent game, to run away. (i dont think they are that better with activision.)
Simply blaiming 343 wont go any where. what we need is to call out microsoft.
halo guy I agree!
yes but it still the halo series
Favyn talks to U quite agressively, firts even I thought that: "Ah this guy is just one freaking piece of hater!" But actually he talks that way...
A. It is part of his own personality.
B. He knows that he has got a *good well researched and reasoned* argument and thats why he is pushing it so confidently!
I love this channel!
Bad change - sprint
Good change - seat changing in vehicles
Changing seats isn't really a change to begin with though
@@klasse4311 you couldnt do it before..
Sprint is great. They've overdone it with H5, but H4s sprint was awesome.
offPlanet Uh no..we haven’t had a true Halo game since Halo 3.Have you watched Fav’s videos about how it hurts Halo overall and you still feel that way? I mean of course everyone has their right,but I’m tired of these upscaled maps so I have to sprint and then went I get into combat the map and sandbox isn’t properly cohesive with the engagement..it really shows.Combat is way more satisfying and unique in the older Halo games..I also miss watches corpses and vehicles fly across maps through man cannons..you know why man cannons are not in the game and other sandbox interactive? Sprint.
offPlanet hell no. Completely ruins the flow of some maps as well as gameplay mechanics. You can’t run and shoot anymore, you can run or shoot. Really devolves the gameplay.
Icy Fields\caves- All intractable sandbox elements glide on ice (weapons, equipment, players, grenades etc), Ice can break if enough wear is put on it and walking into the depths of where the ice once was kills you, Ice formations can be used as cover but again with enough damage the cover will break.
Marshland\Swamp- Movement is slowed, players can crouch to hide from enemies in the water, players do not appear on radar when in marshland, staying underwater for too long will damage you but not kill you.
Storm- All projectile objects are now affected by wind, player FOV is blurry , splatter hazard from random debris, radar is scrambled.
Low Gravity- Player movement is slowed, jump height is increased, projectile objects move at a much slower pace, players can now thrust in any direction.
Scorching Desert- Players take minimal DOT (damage over time) damage that can kill, Plasma weapons do more damage.
Just a few ideas I had after watching. Anyways fantastic video as always Favyn, this is probably the best one yet, there is no opinions, the core of the video is objective and all around solves a big mystery for many supporters of the old and new trilogy. I myself never even considered what was said in this video and now it makes a ton of sense as to why I dislike new Halo over the old one. As some other subscriber said. If I had to show 343 one video it would be this one.
Bravo
I agree with alot of what you said but in antigrav environments wouldnt there be less air resistance or none at all? I think projectiles would move faster! Great comment.
completely, 100% and totally agree
These are arguments that have percolated over the forums especially at Team Beyond for a long time. But it's great that we now have a succinct video encapsulating all of it. Everyone at 343 should watch this.
You express your arguments very clearly.
You bring a tear to my eye. Great video, as always and well said. Moa of Life.
Cardinalsrock75 Moa of life...
QuantumFrost Indeed
Cardinalsrock75 I remember you man!!!
QuantumFrost I think I remember you too.
dude deserves more subs
Joshua Cook He desarves a job! At 343!
yes
Joshua Cook Swap Halofollower's (who are shit) subs numbers for Favyns. Guy actually deserves it.
He should totally have more
agreed
You pretty much got it. Bungie for the most part, added new stuff to their game w/o changing the core gameplay (Except for Reach) whereas 343 changed the core gameplay. Not only that, but even the philosophy behind their changes were different. Bungie's changes were genuine, innovative changes to the gampelay whereas 343's changes is them pretty much just trying to get a quick cash grab off of whatever's trending on other popular FPS games. Bungie's changes had integrity whereas 343's are devoid of it.
Not only do they change the game, but they're not as well designed as people make them out to be. Here are some of my complaints in the Spartan Abilities in Halo 5:
*Sprint:* Here is the condensed argument against Sprint: Sprint is bad for Halo because it diverts focus away from Halo's core--shooting, jumping, and vehicles--to focus on Spartan mobility. A focus on mobility brings 343 Industries' attention towards making a game centered around the wrong style of shooter, one that is stop-and-go and frenetic in pace.
When you give the player fast mobility (Moreso with the boost from thrusters) while retaining Halo's slow game design, you have to change many ways in which the game plays. Out of all the new mechanics added to Halo 5 to fuse speed with Halo, which one hasn't evolved as a means to curtail sprint's effect on Halo's gameplay? Nearly every design decision around sprint is an attempt to reign in sprint's changes to the Halo formula: Levels are larger, to accommodate for distances covered by Sprint; shields do not recharge when running, running stops when shot, to accommodate escapes easily afforded by Sprint; players die faster when they're shot at, to accommodate the short engagements created by sprint. Sprint fundamentally changes Halo because Halo was not designed around sprint, so designing sprint around Halo is equally absurd.
*Spartan Charge:* Why is sprint's charge mechanic a problem for the player? Because it limits the actions he is able to perform in-game. If a player runs up behind someone, he must come to a halt (Fallout of sprint's animation) to melee and kill the guy in front of him. If he melees too soon, he might charge at him, which would only pop his shields while launching him far away, all while the charging player disorients himself. If in another situation, a player runs across a corner and an enemy appears to his right, his only option is to escape to then engage in a gun fight--he'll die if he turns to melee because he'll charge forward into the air instead. The casualty to the charge mechanic, therefore, is a player's liberty with melees.
While melees are core to Halo, they are incompatible with Sprint, so 343 Industries said melees needed to change. A devaluation of melees marks a shift from Halo's gameplay of "run at a guy as you shoot him" into a gun-game of distance. In older Halos, a gun fight rarely ended until fists started to fly (Barring BR starts, but even then players still clobbered the snot out of each other). Melees were intrinsic to Halo, but as the game underwent incremental changes to fit sprint into Halo's formula, melees became a rarity in large levels and fast gunfights. The loss of melees is an example of a concession 343i made to Halo's gameplay in favor of Sprint, and 343i has made many gameplay concessions in Halo's design to make it work at speed. These concessions are the source for many of the design problems that Halo 5 suffers from, and almost all them stem from 343i's decision that Spartans should run and fly.
*ADS/Smart Scope:* The different gun scopes look cool, but the scoping mechanic presents clear hurdles to gameplay by way of de-scoping and bullet spread. It is always beneficial for you to scope in your weapon in Halo 5 as it decreases your bullet spread, making your shots more accurate.
Now, when you toggle to zoom in but get shot, you have to re-toggle to zoom back in. If you hold left trigger to zoom in but get shot, however, you automatically zoom back in so long as you keep holding left trigger. The advantage instant re-scoping gives a player over a manual re-scoping player decides fates: He shot better than you did because his bullets clustered tighter for longer. Every time he was shot, he scoped right back in while you did it manually. Between the natural bullet spread of the gun and the tightened spread of aim during moments you're scoped in, there's lots of fluctuation in where you're shooting and where your bullets land. This makes aiming feel out a player's control--almost random--and if the older Halo did one thing right, they made a player's weapons feel consistent.
Ask yourself this: Why did the battle rifle become the weapon to define Halo's competitive scene? Because Halo felt good when a player knew his shots hit. With a BR, a player had full focus on playing the map and outplaying his opponents; his mind was free because his aim was never in doubt. But with 343i's implementation of ADS, a player doubts his guns. He begins to question the validity of gunfights, and every time he experiences things that he feels shouldn't have happened but did happen in a match, it bites away at his fun. It bites and bites, game after game until it eats a hole big enough in a player's mind that when he wants to play an FPS on his Xbox One, he cracks open the Titanfall 2 case instead.
*Clamber:* Clamber hurt Halo 5's map design: Maps have no structure, no flow of movement. If you can clamber on top of every wall, then the vertical design of levels is compromised. Crouch-jumping was not just a neat trick players loved to do as they jumped, it helped them to go places faster and to create shortcuts to higher spots. But crouch jumping couldn't take you everywhere--if you wanted to get on top of the base in Blood Gulch, you had to walk up the ramps or go up the garage access. With Clamber, you can scale the front walls, or any other wall instantly.
The player who took the high ground, therefore, is at no real advantage to the player on the low ground. The distance between them can be covered far too quickly. In order to preserve map-flow, levels must be made longer for Sprint and taller for Clamber, thus the giant level designs we see in Halo 5. But making a map bigger does not give it structure, and such design does little to alleviate the chaotic nature of battling against clambering Spartans. Despite the quicker gameplay of fast Spartans, H5's matches play out slower than in Halos before it because 343 Industries builds infinite escape paths into maps, and such map design promotes a defensive game.
The larger arenas also ruin map control. Anyone can be anywhere else at any time--they could clamber up the ledge behind you right now--so why hold positions on the map? Take the sniper and move, keep moving and stay on the lookout for enemies who are running around, looking for you. No location is any safer than anywhere else because Spartans can run, thrust, or climb everywhere. It's tiring to run so much and disheartening to see so many enemies flee from your gunfire and survive.
how many Halo games need to be made with sprint before you give up on your quest to get rid of it. Its utterly dumb that you are suppose to be a super soldier and you simply lazily walk around the map. Same is true for clamber. with that said spartan charge and boost are just too much. simply because it complicates the game too much thus less people are going to want to play. casuals can wrap their heads around sprinting and clambering. While spartan charge and boost is just 2 too many variable to deal with.
This is a great analysis.
@spartanx169x 169of300
You know what's also utterly dumb? Adding sprint as a base mechanic after 4 games of not having it. You know what's utterly dumb? Making games follow the basis of logic and reality rather than creativity to instill variety. I will never wrap my head around why people still use this argument.
If we were super soldiers in reality, why aren't we able to cook grenades, wrestle and kick players, survive under water, or sprint while maintaining the ability to shoot. If we were super soldiers, we should be able to do many things, but not everything, similar to sprint and clamber is compatible with Halo.
Spartan Charge co-exists with sprint. You take it out, you get something worse, double melees. It shows that sprint isn't compatible with one of Halo's fundamental mechanics, melee. You not what else sprint and also clamber isn't compatible with? The original map design.
Lets just be honest here, It puts you at a disadvantage for whatever reason hence you don't like it. People can get away from you or people can run up on you . Its one of the two that you simply can't handle hence why you don't like it. I will freely admit I despise spartan charge because i hate being blindsided turning a corner with no means of a counter move. Can you admit it the disadvantage it does to you? I will also admit I like sprint because they make the maps biggerit puts me at an advantage. I like Clmber because it puts me at an advantage. very simple.
the maps become boring thanks to all these mechanics
You've convinced me. I've always argued with you on these points in these prior videos because you didn't explain it a way that emphasizes the differences. Now you did and yeah it makes a lot of sense.
Christian nah dont project your stupidity onto favyn, you're just a fuckin idiot.
Zumbagify
How is someone finally understanding the argument a bad thing?
Nathan Morrell i didnt say its a bad thing. hes genuinely stupid to have not understood the arguments made by favyn for many videos.
Zumbagify
Nah. He's someone who really loves the new Halo games (and probably the old Halo games) who didn't think it was necessary for it to go back to Halo 3 gameplay until he saw how the sandbox worked from this video. He isn't stupid.
Please, imagine me saying this in the most reasonable, nicest way possible.
Zumbagify It's hard for someone especially nowadays to realize they're wrong. I used to be -an adventurer like you then I took an arrow in the knee- a 343 fanboy, and I definitely understand them and how it can take some time to fully understand the other side's arguments and convert.
IDEA: imagine if there was a part of a map that was pitch black and required you to either turn your light on and reveal your position or keep it off but not know where you're going
Id rather keep my light off.
Id turn my light on then turn it back off.
jeremiah white exactly, different sorts of play styles
Super late but that reminds me of a section in Spv3's pillar of autumn that is pitch black, and filled with explosive canisters. The only way to see is to trace enemy plasma shots or use your own weapon fire for light. (Never mind the night vision you can get right before)
This video right here... This video may change the fate of Halo. The fate of the fps genre, the fate of gaming as a whole.
I just hope 343 has the courage to step back and re-evaluate themselves - Change our design philosophy and sacrifice our gameplay and lore continuity? Or keep our design philosophy and gameplay for the sake of lore and continuity? Spartans no longer have sprinting and thrusters anymore. How do we make that work? Is that even a question worth worrying about at this point? It's a tricky situation, but to me the answer is clear.
Uncompetative
That's pretty not canon. At all.
Cortana would need to directly patch onto mjolnir to control it, like with a chip or something. Besides, both Osiris and Blue Team wear mjolnir gen 2, just different iterations of the suit. Also, controlling the suit doesn't mean they're under mind control.
If you're talking about hacking neural implants, Chief would be far more suceptabl to hacking since Cortana is familiar with his implants (I also don't think an implant is even connected to the internet, or any broadcasting service.)
Also, why would Cortana send Locke when she has the Guardians? Just send one down to Chief and Bam! No more Chief.
Oh, and Buck wouldn't turn tail on the unsc just because done crazy AI took over and the UNSC sure as hell wouldn't let a single Spartan go out on vacation during a crisis like this.
What was the joke?
Raymond Alcantara no it won't it will change nothing
"The fate of the fps genre" Ugh, not this again... Believe me when I say Halo is NOT the most important fps, tyere are others carrying that weight more than it, like DOOM and the last game was a big win. I say Halo has a good template again (I say again because ofbthe first Doom games)
george2p and there lies the problem. No one even cares about Halo anymore or why it's important
How about expanding upon the microgravity situations by having some maps with traversable ceilings? For example, a map like Chiron-TL34 can have a section where players walk on the ceiling, so there are players on the ceiling and the floor. The core mechanics are still identical, but the interactions are different. Perhaps the ceilings have strong electromagnetic fields, which allow players to cling to them.
+John Stuart I think it's important to keep the hitbox oriented in the same direction.
One thing that Halo Reach nailed with the abilities was that you could only have one at a time. Sure you got increased speed with sprint, but at the cost of the increased mobility of jet pack, the dodging of evade, the invincibility of armor lock, the... Nothing of invisibility, and the trolling of hologram.
not just having only one at a time but that everyone (including the opposing team) had access to the same abilities and can change into any of them after death. reach gets a lot of crap for introducing loadouts but at least bungie kept it simple. guns and grenades were the same for all of them.
of course there are exceptions like invasion and infection but those were just game types
Nicely done, Favyn! You make a video just like LNG having to do with the sandbox mechanics. I am very, very impressed with this idea. This is something I never thought of.
+Nathan Freeman thanks! Though I don't recall LNG doing a sandbox video.
I've seen most of his commentaries and don't recall him doing that topic. What was it called?
CE already had ice.
Just found your channel and I must say you just earned another sub. Even though I have slight disagreements with few of your points, the video is clearly well thought & hits spot on in the key aspects of what has to change/what has been wrongly changed already. 343's biggest sin was to aim carelessly for innovation without first looking at what they had inherited and protecting its core in the look out for those innovations. They had it all served, the formula is and has always been there, they simply lacked creativity and the capacity to look at the full picture.
*turns this video into a power-point presentation, goes to 343i, presents presentation*
Fuck Favyn you've just gotten better and better with age. Also, wasn't Dino Blasters the best!?
Dino Blasters is fun, but it's not worth building an entire game around it
The same is true with spartan abilities
You make writing an art can't say I agree with everything, but I do love and enjoy listening to your video essays
Wow, just wow. Most just come out with senseless hate, but you've given criticism, and some phenomenal advice. Just, wow. This video is absolutely amazing! I can't tell you how excited I'd be if this is what the next Halo was like. This video is perfect! You've just earned a sub!
You actually explained why I loved Reach so much, is that because the game was designed with that modular mindset, the community and hell, even random people could come up with gameplay scenarios, design them with ease, and have complete control over the sandboxes they create. Whenever I design something for Halo 5, I actively have to think about whether I should limit the buildspace I'm making or detract from the core movement mechanics, which makes things just...muddy. I'm sure you'll go over this soon like you stated
You know, if armour abilities had been on map pickups, I can't help but feel everything would be better...
Chrisey James I miss the Drop Shield and Armor Lock. Hell Jetpack and Evade were pretty good too.
kabob 007 armor lock is more cancerous than spartan charge
I beg to differ. At least you can time out someone using Armor Lock and then kill him. Spartan Charge is just bullshit. " Oh look at me! I can sprint in a room at someone then shoulder bash him! I'm so damn good! "
Storm Bringer777 you can meele a sholder charge dude and kill them with a pistol shot before the animation endes, armor lock was annoying with"you have a sword? too bad" armor lock then emp and a meelee plus no bleed through created a conplete bs moment where you basically cheat death, and sword dude dies.
Chrisey James Pretty much.
This is your Magnum Opus.
"Give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for a lifetime"
343i is the guy that didn't bother to show up and wonders why they are hungry.
great video this is a perfect example of critical thinking
It's a shame that no one in the Halo fanbase has that.
Monando Boi Lmao this video has just proven you wrong
Barack Obama
He was referring to the average fans that you find in RUclips comments and forums which for the most part ends up in cancerous dribble and people fighting over their opinions, which he isn't wrong.
you're getting so much better at present and formulating your arguments. Best vid in a while. Keep it up!
This is what we need, people giving 343 advice and not just critizicing the heck out of them.
and let's remember one thing. It's not 343 that is killing Halo (atleast not mostly responsible imo), it's Microshit.
Lost Guardian 343i has an equal part in Halo's decline.
John D. And the comunity,is one if the most toxic comunity what i saw,lol,when i started to play LoL i was frightened but not was a Big deal,it's the same of halo but more frecuent
this is definitely one of your most well articulated videos dude, good job
Fantastic video. Halo has almost no room for innovating base mechanics and 343 designers have acknowledged this on several occasions, but they still crossed that line and added too many "obstacles" that took power away from the design process.
Where have they acknowledged this? They still seem blind to it to me.
I agree with everything you said and I like the points and ideas that you brought up, but try repeating yourself less. It makes for a more condensed, efficient and attractive video. Keep up the good work!
+Anthony H it's tough because I kinda repeated myself intentionally but with a little different point.
This is a bit complicated and I felt the need to reinforce it a bit more than most topics.
+Anthony H it's tough because I kinda repeated myself intentionally but with a little different point.
This is a bit complicated and I felt the need to reinforce it a bit more than most topics.
One innovation introduced in Halo 5 that I like was changing seats in the Warthog while riding it. One time I was driving a Warthog and my friend had a Rocket Launcher and we were going to town with him switching between the turret and rockets.
EDIT: Oh didn't realize you mentioned this at first.
This is a really great video!
Imagine if clamber remains in the game, but the environment dynamically affects the players ability to climb. For instance, slick or crumbly surfaces will prevent clamber, while those surfaces covered in pipes or vegetation will allow for ladder-like climbing ability.
do this 343!
Your channel shows how love drives creativity, I would love to see this confidence and care in a Halo dev.
You could do under water sections too...
I’ve been rewatching a lot of your old videos recently in lieu of your reflection video, but this one really stood out. As a kid (i was 16 when this was uploaded) i wasn’t as observant nor understanding as i am now, and i never realized the integrity of this video
I will go on record saying i have never played Halo 5, nor do i ever want to because i hate the mechanics. But your video really opened my eyes of just how integral dynamic elements to a map are.
Take Zanzibar, for example. You have the spinning wheel, the falling maintenance bridge, the CTRL-F-U computer that lowers the barriers, and obviously the fusion coils. This added so much to the map, and what made it so amazing
Waterworks is another that comes to mind. You can break the stalactites to kill other players, and just utilize its attributes to gain higher positions, not to mention the fact that if you have 50% gravity for players and vehicles, you can actually be sent flying due to the piston in the center of the map
Dynamic map elements and interactive map elements are quintessential for an outstanding map, in my opinion, and even in Halo 4, they are lacking
Interactive elements, in my opinion, are vehicles, grav lifts, man canons, and button cues. This hasn’t just worked for Halo, either, as it really improved the early CoD Zombies experience. The way i see it, developers aren’t fixing what isn’t broken, they’re breaking something to then fix it haphazardly
343 HAS to see this! I actually agree with his argument now when I usually disagree. also, if halo 6 had arena no abilities but warzone is just like halo 5. since Forge isn't for warzone and neither is custom games, couldn't that please a lot of people? most people would play sprintless arena and most who want fast mobility are in warzone
+Lightsaber I like abilities in custom games as they make for some interesting modes, but I strongly believe ALL abilites aside from power ups should be absent from arena matchmaking.
No way. This only splits the game. In this game mode, you have an entirely different set from gameplay than this game mode. Why do you have an abundant of vehicles like the Mongoose with you at all times? To reach areas faster. I also think Warzone could utilize things like teleporters or man cannons more often. The game needs to be accessible and flexible all throughout.
Favyn has covered that sort of idea before, and I agree with him in that that sort of split would ruin the continuity of the game and fracture the community even more
Are you guys referring to my idea or the guy above me?
@megaman37456
The guy above you.
The comparison between the energy sword and spartan charge blew my mind. I really hope that somebody at 343 sees this video.
that was the problem with fallout 4.
the power armor in fo3 was built around the game but in fo4 the gme was built around the power armor
Best games base themselves around what player can do.
Probably my favourite video by you, keep up the quality mate!
You Are... Sooo. Fucking Right i agree with you 100000% i suscribe!
i actually wanna expand on the whole "adaptive gameplay" you tossed in, why not add cryo nades that freeze the surfaces it's tossed onto, making vehichles slide like on ice, and allowing for that ice based momentum, a-la tribes. or a Zero-G nade, which disables gravity in an area and makes vehichles and items float around, while dealing enough damage when it wears off for some nice rocketjump style mobility. hell, you could probably tie the latter to a nade designed for spartans who had the tendancy to use explosives to propel themselves with a minimal damage knockback nade
you just earned yourself a sub
I can already see a custom game following from that innovation: Zero G Rockets.
Without ground splash damage, rocket fights would be a heck of a lot more engaging.
Dual wielding?! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
This video deserves so much more views that it currently has. Fantastic breakdown of the inherent issues with the current design method and its causative effects to the game play dynamic!
How can i help this video reach 343?
miguel mata
This! We as a community NEEEEEEED to get this message to 343i so at the very least they understand what many of the players think of the design philosophy in Halo and what truly could be the saving grace for the multilayer in future titles.
Even if it's not this video in particular, other videos and articles, etc... If we agree with this message, I think it goes without saying that we need to each do our part. Our voice is stronger in numbers!
I’m years late,but Chris Lee’s Twitter,Tom French and Sketch.Good luck with Halo Waypoint,they shut down Favyn stuff...all pro-sprinters there mostly.
Great video, valid points all around. Still wished you could have talked more about armour abilities from Reach :) looking forward to your next video
I think a DooM/Quake/Half Life style sprint would work best. Where you can be constantly sprinting at no expense to your combat effectiveness thus making the gameplay much more fastpaced, but still fair and balanced.
this would probably be the happiest medium between the no sprint and sprint debate.
but it is ultimately still impacting how one scales a map for the gameplay. it's better than anything else we have, but by no means perfect.
tioscha0 ever think that you already did that in halo 1-3
It's an important thing to remember, that og Doom didn't have autorun enabled, you had to hold run button if you wanted to run.
tioscha0 That's what the MLG playlists in Halo 3 did.
Boltscrap you could change it in the settings
i like what SPV3 did with changing maps and weapons in the sandbox. there was a battery found on some parts of the maps that could recharge plasma weapons when near them, but overheat them if you stay too close for too long.
I've always just felt that Halo needs more guns, more vehicles, and fun elements of the map
Ghost Reportin' this is correct. Everyone bitches about games staying the same and adding incremental improvements, but most franchises tend to nosedive when they make fundamental changes.
Why not try to make a Sonic Generations-style Halo game where classic and modern meets each other?
If the Halo Formula changes fundamentally, then Microsoft should use a kind of Power Rangers-style marketing system to highlight different formula ideas or something like that, if they are to market/branch the shit out of their franchise/games.
+MrYayayify
????
This was a well structured argument. Before this video, I thought that the "classics" guys were just stuck in the past but after seeing this, I can see where you are coming from. Though I do not agree with absolutely everything you said, I think this video is a great argument for the other side and has changed my outlook on many things. I agree with your statement on the way base mechanics can control the game more than the creators and I think your video has made me reconsider the usefulness of clamber and ground pound in Halo. Well done and keep up the good work. You have me as a subscriber.
I've said it before, I'll say it again... There's many things that are needed to "revive" Halo... But what it boils down to, is bring back that feel that the classics have. One step that is ESSENTIAL, and is very simple...
Bloom
i luv bloom
best mechanic
RANDOM! is gud in games
Which classic, CE was different than 2 which was different than 3. No two games have been alike. 2 and 3 were similar, but the projectile crap in H3 was just that crap. they have not done it since so they won't now. Aim is what needs to be fixed. IT was perfect for every single game except for 5 which is still not right and can't be fixed. Its playable, that all I will say,. But it was enough to run away players.
@spartanx169x 169of300
I can't understand how projectile was crap. People complained about the BR being to prominent and Bungie did well, while not perfectly, to reduce its effectiveness by making it inconsistent to require more skill and better aiming.
I can understand being a nuisance in worse connections, and that is where it needed improvements, but aside from that, I think Halo 3 had the best version of the BR
Halo 1-3 had some differences, but they shared a similar gameplay style. The differences between them was mild and subtle, changes were made very sparingly. Halo 4 and Halo 5… they're a lot more on the extreme end. They tried to cram as many changes as was humanly possible, even trying to drastically alter what the game was about (H4 with its COD-esque mechanics, H5 with its parkour/platforming-style of movement). Yes, both "eras" offered changes, but there were differences in how it was handled, and thats undeniable.
+iPlayiOS Just to be clear, you're against reticule bloom, right?
Never have seen a video more deserving of a like. Great job, you explained this topic well!
Uncompetative: valid points. But you got to admit halo was a good halo game. I don't like the idea of sprint in halo games. But I do think reach did it in a good way. You have so much other gadgets than just sprint. like the jet pack drop shield. and the dreadful armor lock. I didn't have a problem with armor lock btw. all these things gave sprint a run for it's money. Reach brought a cool concept with the class system. unless you were playing invasion or something you just had the same guns. You didn't need sprint. I just noticed I talked about sprint the whole time lol. anyways I wish we could have a classic halo experience done right again. Reach and down. and yes I put reach in their cause I wouldn't mind another reach halo. even though I like the classics equally. I also like h4 just because it still felt like somewhat halo. halo 5 is just that game I play because it's the only fps halo with a descent pop. god halo 5 is awful
Uncompetative I like your points
Great arguments Favyn. Very professional, to the point, and very well explained. Instead of some youtubers who but their time and effort into their intros and editing, you put that effort into your script/arguments. I love it.
Halo 5 would've been so good without all the spartan abilities, sprint, and thrust nonsense. Now it sits at 20th on XBL after a year and a half. Pathetic.
Lil Boy Crispy even in the first few months it fell lol
QuantumFrost not lol
cri
Great job articulating this point! It's something I've seen come up a lot in Halo debates, 'how to innovate?', but I've never seen it explained quite this well before.
as a fan of the newer games I really enjoy your ideas. I love halo 5 and I love halo 3 as well I don't care what style is used as long as it's halo and will become more popular than it is now
Brandon Worthing for it to become more popular it needs to leave it's current state
Uncompetative Spartan V?
Armor abilities actually work really well as pickups, for example on MLG sanctuary in Halo Reach.
Spitting gospel. Halo Reach would have been fantastic if armor abilities were just a natural evolution of equipment, but Bungie decided to experiment with ideas for Destiny and fucked it up.
As a guy who mowed lawns when he was 11 until he could afford to buy the original Xbox for the sole purpose of buying Halo 1 and who again only purchased the Xbox One for the MCC (and didn't even install Halo 5 until a month after buying it because I was so sure I'd hate it...) I actually had A LOT of fun with Halo 5. Warzone was boring after a month but I had a lot of fun with everything else. Honestly, that's the base of what a game should be. Fun. That's all I care about. Call me a casual if you want but I HAVE been with the series since day one and I'm a massive Halo fan. I enjoyed the Spartan abilities. Sue me.
Been playing since CE too and H5 is just annoying and not fun. Changes the gameplay too much.
I agree that it is all about fun and even tho halo 5 is fun it isnt the way a halo game delivers fun. I have more fun when i play the trilogy games because they are so unique and no other game does what they do.
Also im a casual player too
Damn. A bit late that I found the video; but I never saw it that way. Always thought that 343 new elements were simply bad design choices; never thought they we fundamentally different implementations.
Nice video! You've really changed the way I look at these games now.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Now with this one I'm just going to have to say I flatout disagree. I don't really consider map designs innovation or differentiation in a game. Going "oh well we'll put a weapon or mechanic in this particular spot or map and that way if people don't like it we'll just revert it back" is just for lack of a better term a blatant copout to me to avoid resistance to change.
Essentianlly what you describe to me is just rehashing the same halo game every release at it's core with different maps with different optional weapons or properties on movement or the way the enviroment functions and at that point there is basically no point in even MAKING a sequel when if you're not going to add anything to the base core formula you coulda add all that to the last game as dlc and it would basically about to the same thing.
Using Devil May Cry as an example Dante's combat styles in 3 are not options the developers could backpeddle on in case people didnt like them. They were a permanent mechanic that HAD to be used if you wanted to be rewarded with more points and orbs, blue crystals ect. Otherwise you'd get low scores from using the same 2 moves and might be able to beat the game but with far less upgrades making it harder on yourself.
Using RE4 as an example again, alot of people like to argue it still carries the core gameplay loop of RE 1-3 when the fact of the matter is it changed it significantly. Classic RE was designed around ammo conservation. Ammo placement is fixed you're encouraged to run from a fight not engage the enemy. Resident Evil 4 on the other hand encourages fighting above all else and will literally feed you more ammo through drops especially as your ammo gets lower. They couldn't backpeddle to the same formula for the game if people didn't like it.
Batman Arkham City is not Batman Arkham Asylum 2. There is a whole new layer of core mechanics that change the game's identity: Grapnel Boosting, ultra stuns, beatdowns, dive bomb gliding ect ect.
I disagree with the idea that a series is not allowed to change it's core and add to the formula to create a new experience or it's a bad thing and something is lost as the years go by. I also disagree with the idea that that map design or adding and taking weapons into those maps counts as innovating anything at all because at it's core its not a sequel, it becomes a rehash nothing at its base warrants a new number in the title. Sticking to your formula that because you don't want to disgruntle your old fanbase and have them adapt to new things is no way to carry your game if you expect your sequel to be bigger, better you can not ignore the industry changes and expectations just because it pacifies your hardcore fans. That's how you end up in shenmu 3's predicament.
He’s not saying u can’t experiment with new mechanics. But it has to make sense with the already existing formula. A good example of a good addition is the ability to switch seats in vehicles. Try new weapon and abilities on map. New modes that are innovative. There are so many other areas to change than the core formula
Also the industry change is to just be different at this point. Halo 4 and 5 proved that alterations to Halo’s formula rn does not work. And like I said before, it doesn’t mean 343 can’t experiment. But it has to make sense. Forcing a mechanic in that the og fan base has rejected for 3 games now does not make sense. Trying to rip off mechanics from other games don’t make sense. U use Arkham games to back ur point, but all of the Arkham games share the same formula, their additions and changes make sense within that formula. It still maintained it identity.
@@kingorange7739 "halo 4 and 5 proved that alterations to halo's formula does not work"
I beg to differ. 343 does not care if the OG fans reject mechanics because the OG fanbase alone is not going to keep this series afloat. You cater to the OG fanbase alone without modernizing to change with the market and your game becomes shenmue 3. Sprint has been in halo for more games than it hasn't at this point. It's not going away. They know they have a fanbase for it and its the kind of game THEY want to make so they'll let the loudest voices from 2007 scream into the air for it's removal all they want.
The harsh reality is that even if halo "ogs" left this series 343 has been building an entirely new modern fanbase over the last 8 years. They're not going to rehash halo 3 every time they make a new halo especially when Halo 3 there are 2 different ways to play halo 3 for those ogs that just can't move on.
@@TeryonTheHuman "I beg to differ." - Really, which Halo game sold more copies and maintained a higher population than Halo 3?
"343 does not care if the OG fans reject mechanics because the OG fanbase alone is not going to keep this series afloat." - Really, because it would seem they are the only one still carrying it afloat. Plus I do not think that 8 million just disappeared out of nowhere.
"You cater to the OG fanbase alone without modernizing to change with the market and your game becomes shenmue 3." - Define modernizing. Sprint is not a needed mechanic to be modern. No mechanic is.
"Sprint has been in halo for more games than it hasn't at this point." - Um
Halo 1,2,3 ODST - Without sprint
Halo Reach - There as an ability
Halo 4,5, and probably Infinite - There as a base mechanic.
Also saying that only adds to my point since removing would be the interesting route while keeping it would be the stagnant thing to do.
"It's not going away." - Congratulations, u must be a prophet.
"They know they have a fanbase for it" - U mean the fanbase that does not even touch the numbers of where Halo 3 was at?
"and its the kind of game THEY want to make" - Which would be fine if it was not for a simple problem. 343 did not make Halo, they amulated it and the community that came with it. And as such, the franchise does not completely belong to their vision and failing to read the numbers and understand what the community wants will only further dig their grave. They can only make the game "they want to make" if it is successful. Not when it is treated like a joke and has population less than half of what Halo 3 had.
"so they'll let the loudest voices from 2007 scream into the air for it's removal all they want." - And u think that is going away? Whether u want to admit it or not, 343 is running out of options. How many times are they seriously going to try to make "their Halo" as if they even know what Halo should be, before they give us what they want. Because the numbers speak for themselves. And now, when their resorting to the tactics of a Indie developer. U know just how much of the shit their in. Halo use to be on the top, now they resort to free to play just to desperately get people to play their game. But nah fam, Halo is perfectly fine.
"The harsh reality is that even if halo "ogs" left this series 343 has been building an entirely new modern fanbase over the last 8 years." - U mean less than half of what Halo use to have? Also it ain't the new fans keeping their games alive. Halo 4 and 5 are effectively dead, and MCC is made up of, u guessed it. The OGs. If all the OGs left. Halo would be dead. Plain and simple. That is why Halo is dying because each year more and more OG fans give up on this nearly doomed franchise. And even I have almost given up. The problem is not going away and because of 343's lack of competence and consistency. They cannot properly build an experience for new fans to rely behind. Given every one of their games keeps pressing the reset button.
"They're not going to rehash halo 3 every time they make a new halo" - We don't want a Halo 3 rehash. We want a new Halo game with new maps, weapons, modes, sandbox, and campaign built around Halo's original principles and formula. Halo 1,2, and 3 all had the same formula yet were vastly different games. It is no different here. Also calling every person who wants the OG formula back "wanting Halo 3 rehash" is just as dishonest as calling every fan who likes modern mechanics, wanting a Halo 4 or 5 rehash. It cuts both ways.
"especially when Halo 3 there are 2 different ways to play halo 3 for those ogs that just can't move on." - BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER HALO 3!!!! That is not what this is about. Don't u think that if Halo 3 was all it took to satisfy us, that we would just stick there and have no problem? NO! We have a problem because we don't want Halo 3, we want a new Halo game. A new, TRUE, Halo game. That is not hard to understand.
Your idea with the ice, the zero g, in areas, is EXACTLY what halo needs, and doesnt change what works... Its a shame 343 hasnt thought about these techniques and ideas u came up with... U gave a perfect example man, kudos
I actually like the Armor Abilities in Reach and Halo 4 as it allowed players to each have a different ability and variant on playstyles and if the abilities weren't wanted then that's fine...except Halo 4 made sprint a main feature...didn't like that.
Great to see that instead of continuing that comment thread with me you decided to make a in-depth video explains by every point. That's how it's done, keep it that way and continue the good work.
(Still don't like equipment though)
Do you think halo 3 Anniversary will happen?
QuantumFrost no
just a random person I think I should
First time seeing one of your videos, but as someone who watches A LOT of Halo commentary, I think you have some of the best ideas and insight.
I think Spartan charge and clamber ruin the game the most. Clamber more so. I absolutely hate it. Ruins the flow of the map entirely and slows gameplay.
Mørkskogg i hate spartan charge more xD
Eltaccos Neczy Well I mean if that is how you feel about that is how you feel, but at least we can agree that it ruins gameplay.
+Mørkskogg I actually like clamber, I've wanted it in Halo since Reach, mainly for Parkour Forge courses, it doesn't really ruin the game for me in mm.
megaman37456 I can see where that can add to something like that and I wouldn't want that to be taken away. I think it should be taken out of the core gameplay and the main multiplayer maps shouldn't be made around it so you can freely jump around and maneuver the map.
Agreed
Honestly the most perfect discussion video I've seen in a long while. This video is amazing and I really hope it reaches and has an impact on those working at 343i
Favyn great video you made me change my opinion on sprint in halo and other games like halo like titanfall 2 or far cry etc why doesn't halo evolve to doom style again hey favyn what would you think of if halo had a weapon gun wheel like doom
Punctuation exists
Great content. Very well thought out and good points you made. This was possibly one of the best breakdowns of game mechanics and design I've viewed.
343 needs to watch your videos lol
I've been waiting for this video like no joke. Keep it up Favyn
Personally I think Halo 5 has the best MP we've seen since halo 3 and is by far the most competitive. My main problem with this video is pretending 343 caused all these issues, instead of it starting with reach because I would certainly rather play H5's MP than reach MP.
+Jarek4Gaming when in this video ever say reach was ok?
I always referred to "the trilogy" when making my points or "the later games".
And I even said "reach started this with armor abilities"
If that was your main problem with the video it seems a little....petty.
Yeah, Jarek says a lot of stupid shit at times.
Who the fuck gives about the problems of Reach anymore? The game is 6 years old, almost 7. Should we discuss the recent game and its problems or should we discuss a that wasn't even made by the same studio? Go figure.
Fraud Alert
Stop trying to start an anti reach circlejerk.
Nailed it Favyn. Like many other comments said, if I had to choose 1 video to show 343i, it would be this one. Solid, well thought out argument with concrete examples. Great job my dude.
Favyn, you're the Ben Shapiro of the Halo community.
Have you seen the #CNNBlackmail? The memes are great! CNN is ripping itself apart.
The memes are indeed dank, my friend..
Andrew Forte
It's nice to meet a fellow conservative on something we are both interested in.
Well, the political compass test on my profile pic is just for a meme, I'm not actually that far right and authoritarian. I'm center-libertarian and hold both liberal and conservative viewpoints on different issues. I love Ben because of how he constructs his arguments and his rationality.
Andrew Forte
That's awesome. I am not really strictly a conservative. I want to maintain our freedoms but as long as it doesn't hurt freedom am open to different views and ideas; but most of the liberal ideas kind of take away freedom soooo...
I don't understand how you get me to agree completely in every single one of your videos. It is truly amazing.