The Magnet Flip - Peter Green Out Of Phase Tone. How to do it & how to use it - Alex Hamilton
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
- Flipping the magnet in a humbucker is an easy mod to do and unlocks the incredible hollow/honky tone that Peter Green was famed for. In this video, i attempt to show you how to do it and how to use it for maximum versatility.
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Gibson 2011 R9 Iced Tea Burst
Sunbear P.A.F Pickups
Fender Super Reverb Reissue
Fulltone OCD
Audix I5
SE4400a Room Mic
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Just wired my pickups out of phase by accident, but thinking about keeping them now thanks to your video! Great playing.
what i was thinking! why didnt he just open the switch cavity?
Thanks Alex, got the vintage tone I was looking for by flipping the magnet like you showed and easing back on the tome knobs. My SG sounds from the 60’s now. Amazing!
NICE! I always wanted a better explanation of the Peter Green out of phase setup. this has to be one of the bestdemoes of this! Thanks again Lewis. these recent videos have been absolute GOLD my man!
I’ve never been big on 3 pickup Customs but I think the one exception might be doing this to the middle pickup and using a push/pull to turn the middle pickup on. You could get the neck and bridge in phase or either with the middle magnetically out of phase.
That would be awesome... Could you do it with three P-90's?
@@creamydistortion three completely different wound sounding P90's would be awesome.
ConStratulations!
My guitar has this mod as I requested it when I bought it as they gave me the option. I’ve never known too much about it but this is so cool and handy. Going to use this in my college research
Wow him doing this to my tobacco LP. That's incredible
For those that don't know: you can play this (or any YT-) video on half speed, without the sound changing pitch. Click the cog ('settings') in the video and choose 'playback speed' and pick the one you think suits you the most.
@@socialmeaslesinpartnership1252 When you mean "Why would Ï do so?; some parts are sped up, and when you slow down the speed you can see better what he is doing (when you'd like or need to know when you want to do the same or do it yourself).
Wow, I learned more in this video about tone for les paul than most videos I watched in the past three months all together. Thanks a lot. Killer playing too. I wish I had a technique. Best regards.
Great video. Thank you. Another big factor to get the Green tone, I believe, is using unpotted pickups. After years of listening to PG, especially live, I am convinced of this. You can hear not only the microphonics but also the touch sensitiveness of his tone. It's amazing stuff.
I dont know how i exsisted w/o flipping my magnets, very helpful ty great playing....
I just keep coming back for the great playing...lol..
Thanks man!
Best way to open the door to a new tone without using the soldering Iron cos if it's not your cup-a-tea it's easy to change back...but I love that tone and the fact that playing around with the volume controls gives you so many different variations of tone. I am going to leave it now that I have rotated the magnets and see if anyone notices the difference. By the way I noticed that there is not a world of difference between the humbucker and p90 when doing this modification.
If I'm not mistaken Peter's guitar (Greeny) wad actually a combination of the magnet being flipped and then the pickup being installed upside down. If you look a photos you can see the pole pieces are on the bottom the pickup instead of the top.
Turning the pickup around makes no difference to the tone what so ever this has been proven many times over the years. Also the magnet flip can be done on either pickup the result when both volumes are on full is the same you still get the Peter Green tone.
@@colinmcnab6145 It does if the coils aren't balanced
@@colinmcnab6145 false. for instance if i use a bridge humbucker with two coil designs the coil toward the bridge is brighter, and when i use that humbucker in the neck i turn the pickup around to make it brighter and sound as good as it did in the bridge position, i play metal , i know what i am doing dude .
in 2014 inside a government facility called 'hellen ross mcnabb centers of knoxville Tn i was beheaded .
Jimi Hendrix just flipped his guitar upsidedown 😂👍
@@zAvAvAz how tf do you know what your talking about if you’re literally incapable of talking after what happened in that gov facility
I've always loved Peter Green and his era of Fleetwood Mac. They are the only UK group that NAILS the sound and feel of Blues.
I'm not interested in chasing Green's tone but this sounds wonderful. I swapped the magnet around and can't believe the assortment of tones that can be had! I feel this trick opens up a whole gambit of tones in the Les Paul.
I'm keeping it.
First thing to know for anyone attempting this: if your pickups are wax potted (like most non-Custom Shop Les Pauls), some of the wax will melt well before the nub of solder that holds the pickup cover in place, so be prepared for a bit of a mess. It took me about an hour and a half to do this, and like Alex mentions, the desoldering part is the most painful and frustrating. So if you've never soldered before or aren’t very good at it ( like myself), beware that this may frustrate you, and when that happens, you will likely burn/ scald your fingers, so be careful (ask me how I know 😞). Having said all that, the tonal difference is audible especially when you find the sweet spot as Alex explains, even on a stock 2021 Standard 50s Gold Top Les Paul. Thanks Alex!
Do you have to re wax the pots?
I'm thinking of either doing this to my epiphone Sheraton standards pick up . Love the warmth
@@coco-te1op Hmmm…I’m not sure what you mean when you say “re wax the pots”; to clarify- this method has nothing to do with the “pots”(I.e. potentiometers) at all. It is the pickups that are “wax-potted”, and I think the term arises from dipping them in a pot/ container/ bath filled with hot wax. However if we’re talking about the same thing, i.e the pickup coils, then no I didn’t have to re-wax the pickup. There was still plenty of wax on the individual coils of the humbucker when the metal pickup cover finally came off and I “looked under the hood”. If you’re looking for “warmth”, which to me means less treble frequencies, you do run the risk of getting disappointed as the “Peter Green mod” leads to a “squawkier”/ greater treble containing tone in certain combinations of volume and tone pot positions, that is somewhere between a humbucker and a single coil. The video explains this nuanced tonal shift well.
@@sanjeevmraman sorry what I meant was do you have to re wax the entire humbucker once the covers go back on. . . Dip the whole lot to air seal the covers
@@coco-te1op No. I didn’t have to. Also to clarify, even though I haven’t ever done anything related to pickup wax-potting etc., the way I understand it is that the 2 coils of the humbucker are immersed in hot wax, and the pickup cover is soldered to the backplate after that. So the wax potting is done BEFORE the humbucker cover goes back on.
Way easier to just do it electronically with a push/poll switch to put it out of phase
Like you said ! You nailed it all. And ....... It's all about the volume controls
Very interesting, i recently began to wrap-around the strings on the bridge to get more honkyness, but this method seems quite an alternative. I'll check out more, thank you!
I love your playing bro. Spot on for the green tone!
Great video mate! Some seriously nice tone you're getting there... I'm gonna have a stab at re-wiring the neck pick up on my LP to be able to switch to 'out of phase' with a push pull tone pot... If it ends up sounding anything like yours, I'll be smiling
I’ve done a phase switch and there’s some pretty cool and useable tones but it doesn’t sound like a magnetically out of phase to me. It’s a shame there’s no way to make that switchable.
@@277southtombob Interesting... It figures that the only genuine way to do it is to pop the hood and flip the magnate... I will have to pluck up the courage to try it
Some pick ups can be easily reversed by reversing the leads, no need to reverse the magnets... Put a push-pull switch in there to flip one pickup and you can have a normal/out of phase option..
@@alanaizen8220 I’ve done a couple with a phase switch and it does get some interesting sounds. The advantage that flipping the magnet has is that you don’t lose as much output and it’s not quite as thin as out of phase wiring. I’ve played a couple of Les Pauls done this way to get the Peter Green, Gary Moore tone and it does sound good but personally I use the regular both pickup sound quite often and miss having it. I like using the volumes to blend more or less of one pickup and it’s a staple for me.
Love it. I've done it on both my LP's. I had to use a hairdryer to get the magnet out of my 95. Sounds brilliant.
Maybe the best guitar demo vid on YT
Thank you for this 👏👏
Love what you wrote on the pad to your left
I think this is the first video I've seen that detailed the procedure so precise...thank you!
Just did this to me Greenie copy! Video was so helpful. Got my Gibson Wildwood Select Greenie copy perfect now!
Awesome tones. I'm braking out the tools right now ... AWESOME!
Not doing a before and after comparison was a missed opportunity I think but otherwise a good video that sounds lovely
well done
Great explanation for the magnet flip and some tasty licks as a bonus.
Great guitar playing
Will be doing this to my Gibby really soon. Thanks for this video
What a good video, wow. Dude you are a siiiiiiick player too…freakin lit, and ablaze sir…
that was amazing! thank you so much Alex.
An absolutely SUPERB demonstration (!)
I flipped the neck PU around and then put in a push push knob as treble knob. Then phase shifted it on the knob.
That way I can instantly get the normal setting back again.
This also only sounds close to the greeny if you have old school paf alnico 2 pick up.
They are darker and thus you still get the nasally sound but thicker than with alnico 5s
What an excellent video! Great playing too. Thanks for putting this together. I think I’ll get my local guitar tech to do that to mine. 👍
Thanks for this awesome demo, I'm really thinking to do this mod as well, getting that Snowy White's tone
I did this by accident when I messed with a Gibby Classic 57 pup and flipped it and hot damn hit my HB tone nirvana!
Incredible job on the vid and great playing too! Excellent!
Cheers!
Going to give it a try, If I don't like it I will put it back!
I love the sounds other guitar greats get. I just don't want to try and be them or have their exact sound.
Thank you for a great Video,
B
The biggest factor in this besides the great gear and cool out of phase setup is that you are a helluva player with great feel.
Currently waiting for my 335 to be done, I'm getting a phase switch push pull knob put in. Time is going so SLOW!
Well done Alex, well explained, concise, showing off what it can do, I have done it to a few guitars! And 1 night was messing around on a guitar I had done it to, and 1 of the quirks of that mod is, when both vols are set the the same say 6 or 7, and you drop 1 just a little to 5 and a 1/2 , or 6 and a 1/2 respectively, the volume actually gets louder! Because they are no longer in sync and the more dominant pickup is taking over? That's my understanding of what's happening!
The main reason for my comment about the plywood cap is that the guitar sounds great, so much talk about what makes the "tone" of a guitar.
Awesome playing too.
Thanks Dude - always great to find a concise and well presented video with just the info I was actually looking for
thanks for this have been wanting to do this mod for awhile your explanation and simple technique made it easy for me to do this and i am extremely happy with the result, have epiphone lp custom with Gibson 57 classic + gibson 57 classic plus in guitar with 50's wiring. Thank for showing the various tones this is also achievable great work, thanks
I did it to my cheap sg. I love the tone.
I got the same effect by rotate 1 pup 180 degrees, without fiddling with a soldering iron and a magnet.
Great vid !
In '06, i bought a new Epi LP Std + with the thought of doing this mod (PG fan since '72 and digging Shrine '69).
Found out the pickups were potted and then considered a SD HR set but finally just use a CryBaby as a filter.
Not the same but the rest didn't seem worth the trouble so....I still love the guitar, tho.
It's on a stand now, just played it last night.
Always found my explorer sounded a bit boring and overly punchy. Just flipped the magnet in the neck pick-up per your instructions. Instantly seems better.
Excited to dial some tones in. Interestingly if I’m using the mix pickup selection and I roll one volume to zero it mutes both. Not a huge issue but an interesting outcome.
Useful video. Thanks for clearing some things up. Subscribed.
You’re making this WAY HARDER than it needs to be Chief! LoL!!!!
Great job man!!! Thanks and you play a lot!
Very good vid. Also.......what a serious serious player.
Well done: nice ! (and playing too...) 😉
This mod sounds great, sounds just like Peter Green's tone to me.
Killer tone and playin! The essential rocknroll sound in the bridge pup playing at start of video!! Beautuful!!
Very cool Thanks ✌🏻
I have a SSH configuration strat. I replaced the humbucker (bridge) and neck (single) pickups - both from the same brand. …and now I think the middle single coil is out of phase with both its neighbors. When I play each pickup individually (positions 1, 3, and 5), everything’s fine, but in the shared positions (2 & 4), the volume drops off pretty dramatically and the tone is quite thin.
I clicked on the video to see if it was related and find it amusing that it’s being done on purpose. It’s not new to me, but I thought it was usually accomplished by a switch… but if you have to manually take out the magnet and reverse the poles… I’m not sure how a switch would do it.
Really great
Nice vid. Very informative. Great playing. Thought at around 5:20 you were gonna kick into "Oh Well"??? Not to be so...'oh well'! ✌♥️
Well played Dude
How did the Carvins of the 1980s get the out of phase just by flipping a mini toggle? All (or most) Carvins of that era have 3 mini toggle switches. The 2 that are side by side switch the appropriate pickup to humbucker/single, and the mini toggle above those switch the pickups to out-of-phase, when both pickups are selected.
I'm the original owner of a late 1984 Carvin DC160T, and own several more 80s Carvins, and yes, the mini toggle really works making the pickups out of phase.
Dope playing btw!
if its done right, with both pickups on say 7 you get that sound, but that's the only time, when both volumes are the same! if you lower 1, by going from 7 to 6.5 or 6, the guitar actually gets louder, because they aren't truly out of phase volume wise!
In order not to lose low end by the phase cancelation, but retain quackiness you need to swap the ground and positive wire from the pickup. That's the part no one mentions with the mod. Like mid strat PU. It's RWRP. Reverse wound, reverse magnet polarity. You emulate reverse wound part by swapping the wires.
I prefer the thin sound to this though, would the adittion of low end mod take that away?
I dunno, I was hearing Alex get the tone of "Oh Well" at one point...
Gill...all the better reason to have a few more guitars😉
Swapping ground and hot on a 2 wire PAF will make the cover and baseplate hot, introduce loads of noise and problems. Flipping the magnet shifts phase 180 degrees, flipping the wires also shifts it another 180 degrees, leading you right back where you started, in phase with the bridge pickup.
Thats totally correct but I always wondered how much the the backwards mounting was changing tone? Think that was more folklore and the bigger tonal change is the phase
Very nice
Thanks !. After having watched your video I made the mod. Sounds beautiful 😉🖖🏻🎸
Dude! Thank you for posting this. Curious, did you forget to rotate the pickup too? As I understand it, the mod requires you to mount the pickup upside down too.
I flipped just the neck pickup . Works Well ! Why your neck pickup is the same position ?
To truly put two pickups electrically out of phase with each other, you have to flip the wires, ground and hot, of one pickup, it doesn't matter which one.
Physically flipping the neck pickup (or bridge), gets the active pole pieces of each pickup closer to each other accentuating the out of phase sound.
Bear in mind, the pickup which has the reversed wiring, if it has a metal cover, will cut out if the string touches the cover, also, some more hum will
be heard especially at higher gain.
I had a guitar with flat tip humbuckers, after some experimentation, I found that the middle position of the guitar did not sound like it usually does.
I just rotated 1 pup 180 degrees and everything is back.
I didn't fiddle with the pups wires.
Skills
Thanks, this is the best explanation I’ve found so far, but it doesn’t seem complete. As I see it there are at least three things in play here and you only cover one. I get that the magnet is rotated 180 degrees. But on the Peter Green / Gary Moore guitar Greeny,, the neck pickup is also rotated 180 degrees, which will impact the sound as well. But you don’t do that here. Why not? If the magnet and pickup are both rotated 180 degrees, should the wiring connection to the pickup stay the same, or be reversed? Or is some other combination of the three things required?
No i've covered everthing. Rotating the pickup makes no difference to the sound and i didn't want my pickup upside down. The wiring stays the same.
@@AlexHamilton That is what I have never got about this mod not to nitpick. Peter Green rotated the magnet but put the pickup back upside down. Wouldn't that technically mean that the magnet is still in its original position just in an upside down casing? That the magnet itself just did a 360?
Tim at Bare Knuckle reverse engineered the Greenie pickups. The neck pickup had been rewound using the wire usually used in Strats and was wound in reverse.
Thanks for this very informative video. Can this be done successfully on a H S Telecaster?
The bridge pickup has to be louder than the bass pickup so turn down the volume slightly on the bass pickup and you've got the sound
Is this sonically different than out-of-phase wiring? As in swapping the hot and ground leads of one pickup?
Fucking kickass licks brother, made me smile
Just a heads up for anyone doing this mod! I tried this mod and while I now love my middle position, I don't like how the neck only tone is so altered, as well as its respective tone control acting very differently. I read elsewhere that you need to flip the magnet so the up facing side becomes the down - instead of changing the polarity completely by rotating the magnet as you did.
Changing the phase and reversing the polarity of the neck pickup, while being 2 different phenomena, both result in the same partial cancellation with the bridge when in the middle position. However, switching the polarity of the pickup will effect the sound of that pickup by itself, in addition to the middle, which I failed to realize. when the phase and polarity is the same between pickups, there isn't that cancellation. Instead of cancelling, the 2 sound waves from each pickup combine, hence why the middle position doesn't normally lose any beef. However, when the pickups are out of phase, each pickup by itself will sound the same, but when combined produce interference which leads to the final signal being partially cancelled (due to the 2 waves from each pickup not being in sync). This is why you get a thinner sound in the middle.
Flipping the poles in the pickup causes the same interference in the middle position, but it seems like you also change the phasing between the 2 coils of the neck p/u itself, which results in a thinner neck tone as well as thinner middle.
Noooooooooo!
Aw bless, there was no need to go through such a high anxiety process. I just took the two wires from the neck pickup and swapped them over and had my neck pickup out of phase in 70 seconds .
👃I want everyone to know it doesn't have to be this much effort to get the out of phase tone, to save you all from unnecessary work & potential problems.
Bless you too! You've now got a noisey, buzzing neck pickup 🙏
I have this metropolous amp and I think I need to sell and get your amp with an ocd. That's the sound I want
Hi Alex! Great video, I'm actually going to be ordering your Signature Pickups from Sunbear very soon. Very excited.
I plan on doing the out of phase mod with those pickups.
I notice that one of the things you point out in this video is how playing with volume can achieve different tones, I see that you were altering the volume on both pickups, I was planning on going with 50s Wiring but my understanding is that with 50s wiring, you can only use the neck volume for both pickups in the middle position. Any thoughts? What wiring are you using on this R9?
Thanks, keep up the great stuff!
I thought we could have Greeny sound in the middle position at every VOL and tone level ? It is true ?? Want to do the mod…thanks for your help 🙏😉.
Didn't Peter Green have his pickup backwards? I'm assuming this method is done so you don't have to have the pickup backwards or did he have the magnet inside turned and the pickup turned? Wouldn't it just be easier to install the pickup backwards?
Could you not achieve the same thing by just spinning the whole pick up around once it’s loosened and taken out . Awesome video as always dude , keep on rocking
That doesn't change the polarity.
@@gibsonfan159 Does the method shown here (reverse magnet) produce the same result as the push-pull switch on some modern Les Paul's (reverse wiring), or is one method preferable over the other?
@@SaxJockey Not exactly. The electric switch method loses a lot of the bass and is more nasally whereas the magnetic switch method keeps the warmth and sounds better but sacrifices the ability to go back into phase humbucker sound without a having to unscrew everything.
In a nutshell no! Turning the pickup around does nothing.
@@samapple490I wonder if you could use an electromagnet in place of the regular magnetic element in the pickup.
Assuming I am not wildly off about how they work you could reverse the flow of charge along the electromagnet to reverse its polarity, recreating this effect and allowing for switching in and out of phase.
Also better with 50s wiring rather than 60s. SteveH
Question: Is this the same sound you might get by switching the leads on one of the pickups, instead of flipping the magnet?
Pleases forgive my apparent ignorance, but why not just turn the entire humbucker 180 on the horizontal plane for the same effect? Just asking.
Good point!
I've you want to see Peter Green's guitar and pickup arrangements and hear it watch on RUclips Mick Fleetwood and Friends The Green Manalishi where the guitars present owner, Mark Hammet, is playing it.
Just came in on this one...
Would the same effect take place if the magnet was turned over ("rolled over") 180°?
When you had your pickup removed I could see that the body cap looks like plywood is that the case?
Great video! Lovely tone. Can I just ask, what is the advantage of doing all the work to flip the magnet, rather than just reversing the wires to achieve the out of phase sound between the 2 humbuckers?
There really isn't any, this way is just the"traditional"method
You can do the same fliping just the magnet in the bridge nd not in the neck pickup?
So too kinda sum it up in order to achieve his out of phase tone just roll the bridge volume a bit higher then neck in middle position?
nice tones!
no wire swapping was done? just flip the magnet?
works on either ceramic or alnico mag humbuckers?
Is there a difference in sound between swapping the magnet or using a push/pull pot and wiring change? Thanks
Wouldn't just flipping wires give you the same result?
yeah, It does exactly that. I've done it by accident a few times with Epiphone pickups and it sounds just like this. For anyone reading, this only works if your pickup has separate hot and earth wires, as opposed to a pickup with braided wire like a Gibson PAF / 490 type.
I have a Dimarzio Super Distortion (13.64k) on the bridge of my LP and a Seymour Duncan 59 (7.4k) on the neck. Can i get this effect even with the differences between the gain of this two?
Jimi Hendrix just flipped his guitar 😂👍