@@XgoSolo no problem. I will say that a large reason as to where this mentality comes from is how genshin handled the meta around inazuma era where they constantly made units for certain players style and said play styles ended up being broken when everything came together
Feel like Ruan Mei is going to be a jack-of-all-trades (all around good, but not BiS anywhere) support in the future assuming Hoyo creates more specific harmony units. Every time a new archetype harmony releases, she falls out of that specific archetype.
I don’t think you watched the video she’s BiS for DOT or at least that was the purpose of her character kit when she was made. You can argue Robin is better but it’s clear she was made for FUA
Just the damage boost from the skill is enough to make the argument that she is not DEDICATED to break, is the best right now for break but her kit is obviously not 100% into it
@@XgoSolo You do realized critbreak dps exist and can use dmg% right? like, she literally released with one (Xueyi) They literally cannot give her skill anything else. If it was ATK% it wouldnt have benefitted 2.0 break dps either. If it was RES pen like her ult, that would of been stupidly broken to give on a passive skill thats always on
You can convince me that Ruan Mei wasn't totally made for Break, but you can't convince me that she was made for DoT. She "works" with DoT , and that's it. Currently, it's plain to see that what DoT is missing is a true dedicated DoT support, and Ruan Mei is not it. I'm a full DoT main with E6S5 Black Swan and Kafka E1S1, and I permanently stopped investing into Ruan Mei past E1S0. It's inevitable that she'll be replaced by a true DoT support. The same can be said about HuoHuo and the DoT sustainer role. She just "works" with DoT, but the archetype would much appreciate an "Aventurine", but for DoTs, not FUAs.
DOT hasn't had an actual support put into the game. Kafka is a sub-dps much in the way Topaz is and Black Swan is the premium 5* that was slotted in, but there's one problem: they actually haven't made a 5* sustain nor support who amplify that. At this point, Huohuo & Ruan Mei act as the default as there's no alternatives tbh. The closet 5* sustainers work way more effectively in other comps, and Huohuo being a battery makes ults go off faster, but she isn't actually adding much to he dots herself or interacting with said dots. Ruan Mei is just good across the board with Robin being behind as again, she has the ability to enable he team in some capacity, but Ruan Mei doesn't have a built in DOT herself (in fact, one big glaring issue in this argument is that ice doesn't even apply a actual dot in any way). A actual dot harmony character would have to be physical, fire, lightning, or wind to add a dot and add on. Ruan Mei's busted kit just works as again, there's very few teams who don't want what she offers or they benefit slightly more from another buffer if the team only has room for one support, though if two: congrats, behold Ruan Mei. Plus, another issue in dot calcs is that they trigger from an enemies turn, so while Kafka riggers them: Ruan Mei disabling them for an extra turn actually can be a detriment to the full potential of a dot team as it slows the enemies and well, can prolong them from proc'ing the dots on them as often as they could. I agree with this as again, the last dot character to be put in was Black swan. Boothill can apply physical dot, but his damage comes from him breaking shields more so than super break like Firefly (who wants enemies in their broken state longer, which guess who pops her head up). Which it's odd to make an argument when yeah, Ruan Mei is very much about break, but she's the first premium support who was to be alternative to Bronya, another harmony character who controlled the meta up to that point.
kind of disagree, the fact that they don't state anywhere in their kits that they ONLY buffs dot, like dot dmg multiplyer or dot vulnerability, doesen't mean that everything they offer isn't tailor made for dots. Again, between ruan mei and huohuo there is not a sigle thing they provide that dot cannot use. My dot team to this day can 1 to 2 cycle any moc even off element, but dropps of a cliff whenever i have to slot robin in because firefly in the second half.
@cspoon69 1 look at there arguments again, they said tha the break based effects of Ruan Mei, mainly being, thanatoplum rebloom, her ult, the extra turn of broken state is anti synergistic since you want to have the enemies take there turn, and 2 Robin isn't tha bad your prolly using her wrong
@@Yumiaia-26 first i assume we talk about a black swan comp when we talk about dots, everybody else is pretty subpar. You do realize the enemies taking longer allows you to stack a ton more arcana and detonate a lot more arcana with kafka. It's everything but anti synergistic in a ruan mei, kafka, black swan comp. All things you would have known had you either seen the video or played a ruan mei black swan comp.
@cspoon69 yes it does allow you to get more arcana, bu it's still anti synergistic by the very nature of dot, dot characters want the enemy to move so you can detonate the damage, so in conclusion, no
I'm confused as to why you mention Physical DoT for Boothill. The reason why he does not benefit from Super Break as much, as far as I know, is that he can deal break damage on broken enemies by himself, and Bronya giving extra turns is more impactful than the additional damage from Super Break. A lot of his kit revolves around getting his 3 Pocket Trickshot stacks from breaks/kills at the start of battle, which is part of the reason why he likes Ruan Mei, but he also deals normal crit damage on top. It's not related to DoT in any way. Edit: I got the answers I was looking for as well as some corrections. Apparently the DoT is significant when you have that much BE, which makes sense in hindsight. Thanks :)
It’s because when he breaks someone there will be bleed due to he’s a physical character. But he’s not really fully dot it’s just the fact he’s physical character that just so happens to apply bleed if they get weakness broken.
boothill with superbreak is basically overkill. His dmg without break dmg is neglible so he does not care for dmg boost and even crit stats. He doesnt need ruan mei or hmc rather all he needed was bronya or sparklez for that action advance. Additionally only reason people dont use superbreak on boothill was bc it was more beneficial for firefly bc she has spd boost in her kit. Even ruan mei was better for firefly than boothill. The reason why physical dot was a factor to boothill was bc he is the most likely character to break enemies. Physical break has one of the strongest break bc break bleed does as much as the break dmg. Team concepts: kafka/luka, boothill, RM and a free slot. Break dmg also benefits from debuffs like def down and vunerability. The point of the idea is for you to think outside of the box and experiment on team comps.
some of this is false, he does benefit from superbreak and I would say could be more impactful than bronya is most situations, just he has the option to opt out of it unlike firefly. Also his dot when his break exceeds 300% has like 150k physical dots on bosses and elite which is a non-negligible amount of dmg.
I literally keep telling everyone in my circle that a break harmony will definetelly replace ruan mei in the future, and they all look at me like I'm talking nonsense. Finally someone that agrees
This point is stupid, powercreep exists, thats the whole point. characters will get replaced even in their own niche, luocha was a perfect example, Huohuo powercreeps him but that doesn't make luocha any less of a healer.
1. The decision to make ATK buffs not work on firefly was primarily due to Robin being stupidly broken for her in early beta. 2. Ruan Mei's Ultimate which extends weakness break for an extra turn is counter intuitive the playstyle of DoT because you want enemies going as many times as possible and not delaying their action as there is little to no merit in doing so. (It's very valuable for break units however because they get to do much more dmg before the enemy recovers their break bar) 3. Ruan mei was considered very good for DoT teams because at the time the DoT team was one of the only teams that had a dual dps setup (being kafka + a dot dps) and hypercarry buffers like tingyun, sparkle and bronya wouldn't work well on those teams. (Also why she was considered good on a Jingliu and blade team) 4. Robin is now better as general support than ruan mei arguably because of her teamwide action advance, (her and ruan mei are actually pretty even in DoT compositions which should tell you that Ruan Mei's niche was not meant to be a DoT support) 5. The only likely reason why they put things like DMG% buffs in her kit was so that people didn't call her unusable garbage when she first released and gave her more of her Dual DPS composition presence. There is absolutely nothing in Ruan Mei's kit that points to her being a dedicated DoT buffing support. She is universal in the fact that she can be played there (as most harmony units are) but her primary function on release was being a dual dps buffer. Looking at her kit with the break meta in mind now, you can see that she WAS in fact meant for break this entire time and the point that she will get replaced is mute because you should look at Harmony Trailblazer to see who will likely be replaced next as they are a free unit and Hoyo wants to prioritize sales. (Early albeit questionable leaks suggest that Tingyun's new form has something to do with buffing superbreak). Also, don't forget that boothill exists which ISN'T a superbreak dps and would benefit from someone like bronya more than he would from HMC. I don't understand why you are willing to die on this hill when your take here makes absolutely no sense. Like I posted on your penacony story video, please stick to story content because you know nothing about the meta and are just feelscrafting everything.
Just from point 2 I can tell you don't know what your talking about in a dot team having them weakness broken longer means you can proc the dots more often as dots are stronger after an enemy is broken
@@a.r5235 While he is kinda wrong for that point, breaking them and letting them recover isn't too much different. Black Swan is more of a DoT support because she increases the damage DoTs do AND has her own DoT. Ruan Mei just helps them somewhat which does make her usable, BUT NOT THE BEST OPTION. If she was DoT support she would have a DoT and buff DoT damage greatly like Swan does. Then again, people are proving that she is more of a general use character and then he insults anyone who thinks that. His argument is that Hoyoverse wouldn't do that, but do keep in mind that WuWa implemented the QoL that HSR has before Genshin did. So it's more that the Genshin team sucks ass than Hoyoverse entirely. Keep in mind he hasn't said shit about ZZZ or Honkai Impact so it's weird to base his opinion on 2 of the many games that Hoyo runs.
@@a.r5235 No, you dont know what you’re talking about. Not all of DoT’s damage comes from kafka retriggering. Black swan loses out on dot hits as well and also any character benefits from enemies being weakness broken, its in the dmg equation. claiming she was made for dot is utter bull. 90 percent of her kit is break oriented and you want to tell me she wasnt meant for break? ur goofy
@@AkantorzI feel like the entire last section just kinda seems random because while I get the wuwa stuff Is in relation to his previous vids it just seems random to bring it up in this context.
@@TheMrAtlasyea because like he mentioned dots get better when the enemy is broken. The problem again as he mentioned is that dot and break are so tied together that ruan Mei is a character that you either lean entirely into one aspect or the other.
This is interesting when you read the effects of Ruan Mei's lightcone because +60% Break Effect for her is ok, but the +24% DMG is useless in break teams
The 60% break is a personal scaling stat stick present on every dedicated lightcone, and doesn’t serve to benefit the team, which is why I don’t count it
Just proves that she's a general support. Why are we acting like DoT is the only team who likes dmg%? Hypercarry and FUA also love that as well as the extended break. All characters deal extra damage to broken enemies, not just DoT units like Solo said.
@@XgoSolo Maybe they planned for break characters to deal hybrid damage, both regular damage affected by DMG% + the break stuff. Then rather went for the superbreak approach, the damage almost all break. I doubt they had any this stuff planned out from the start.
@@XgoSolo maybe because they didn't plans to make break (well, super break actually) as it's own type. At the start of the game, break is supposed to be gimmick and addition mechanics anyway since all they care about is break effect, elements, and level compared to other damaging types that also care about skill damage multiplier etc
ok here's my theory, maybe she was made for both, her having attack on E2 and team wide dmg% and speed buff and her ult giving res pen and delay and allowing the enemy to take to instances of DoT (similar to freeze) does make her a good DoT support, but all of those buffs and the WBE minus E2 does also suggest she was also made with the break meta in mind, so maybe they just wanted to both give DoT a much needed push and prepare for the future break meta
after all, all premium supports are designed to be usable anywhere with an archetype being their BIS, the reason am skeptical about her being made for DoT is that we got Robin who is BIS for FUA yet she also performs as well or even better than RM in DoT teams
Guess who also likes attack and extended breaks? Hypercarry and FUA. NONE of her buffs are DoT specific. She is a general support. Not a dedicated break, not a dedicated DoT.
@@AmythstGuardian well yeah which is why I said she is usable everywhere, the reason her delay is way more important to break and DoT is because obviously SB wants the enemy to always be broken and the delay causes the enemy to take 2 ticks of DoT in a short period instead of just one
@@zakariamimouni279 yeah, people try to shoehorn the harmony units in categories, where they're OBVOUSLY all designed to be generalists with one specific niche that very, very slightly make them go toward a specific archetype ? Robin ? universal team-wide buffs, universal team advance forward, she has one buff and one energy mechanic that caters to the FuA playstyle, and the energy part can be manipulated in several ways to just work outside of FuA team anyway. Sparkle ? aside from her skill buff and Advance forward favoring hypercarry playstyle, everything else she gives + lightcone and eidolons IS a team-wide, universal buff. Ruan Mei ? Break efficiency and break delay that favors every strat favors *breaking* (and no, not just break teams want these boons. they're just one of them). on top of guess what...universal, team-wide buffs...starting to see a pattern ? So the whole discussion is kinda moot. This is not "not engaging with the discussion", this is the very reason this game is currently Harmony Star Rail. Every unit ASIDE from the limited harmonies are very, very geared toward archetypes, meanwhile the harmony crew has a few synergies and anti-synergies, but they are obviously designed to fit into as many archetypes as possible. Obviously this might change in the future, with HMC proving they can, and most likely will start to design more specialized Harmony units, but we're not talking about future units, we're talking about the *first* limited Harmony character being designed to be universal with just a little bit of break flavor make her too bland and give her a bit of identity, really.
@@AmythstGuardian characters that I can think of, benefit the most from Ruan Mei are: Xueyi and Sushang Both benefit having dmg bonus (and all of the debuff), both wants to break the enemies faster (xueyi for stacks, Sushang for passive), both benefits from having the enemies recovery delayed (xueyi super break dmg & stacking entanglement, and sushang can dish out more sword stance)
I would like to make a distinction between break and super break as super break depends on enemies being in the broken state for longer and having break effect, while pure break is concerned on the break instance and subsequent DOT. Both the ult proc and weakness break efficiency are unmatched by any other character and is unique to superbreak. You do note that firefly and boothill are not as dependent on the extra turns in the broken state time since they already kill however this is only due to the content being beatable in 2-3 cycles. In a long turn fight lasting 10+ cycles both would be better suited to the super break strategy as both want to maximize their attack frequency when the enemy is broken, boothill's ult AV reduction and firefly speed. Consider Sushang who I think is the best foreshadowing of superbreak with a kit granting speed, advancement, break, and high frequency. Previously playing her for just break, and dot is not viable even with Ruan mei as Luka trumps in DOT application, beak and reproc. New life is given with superbreak sushang that I could only 5 cycle without Ruan mei and 3 cycle with. Like if you want recording. Non firefly and boothill superbreak highly benefit from Ruan mei's existance. I do grant that Ruan mei's freeze and flower procs are advantageous to DOT as it increases enemy turn frequency and is quite unique. Damage bonus is useful for boothill sushang and other DPS super breaks like Jingyuan as it is a parallel damage strategy. Only Firefly really misses out on damage increase. The speed, broken multiplier, and resistance penetration are agreeably not unique to DOT. I would hazard against using higher eidolons to explain how.the unit is played otherwise E6 Sparkle looks like a teamwide buffer, E6 Seele looks like it runs dual DPS.
She 100% was a break support because she released with Xueyi(a break crit unit) buuut Xueyi sucked and hoyo realized that so they buff break with introducing super break, and she most likely going to get replaced with another harmony that have both super break and 50% break efficiency that's it, and about her being a dot support, that's also wrong because dot unit created in a way that supporting each other will dealing damage so an ideal dot support going to be a dot nihility something like black swan or a more potent fox dude (I forget his name).
That actually reminds me. This was one of the arguments I forgot about. The Xyuei argument. You’d be surprised how many people ride and die on a Single break character existing when Ruan Mei Released so I’m going to say this. If you think their going to release dedicated 5 star supports for 4 star characters, you’re out of your mind
@@XgoSolo it's not just Xueyi you should also remember the OG break dps Sushang that was the primary picture of a break dps for hoyo and all players a unit that can benefit from attack, damage bonus, break, speed, res pen, and etc that explains Ruin mei skill, e2 and her LC. Break was always a lackluster ability so a break dps needed to also deal critical damage too. Problem with that was the fact that unit like that want all the states on the world and the break gimmick didn't worth it. All of this is assumption though. 🥴
And if hoyo release a support like that with break Efficiency ando super break it won't replace Ruan Mei the HMC is the one getting replace in that scenario, the weakness break Efficiency is to strong for break DPS and super break in general
@@ectoBiologist21you know its kinda funny that im pretty sure someone tested dot teams with robin and ruan mei and robin still outperformed ruan mei slightly despite being a more crit oriented support
To add on, there was no real "break team" at the time, only Xueyi, Sushang and some coping. The top teams at the time were either DHIL, Jingliu, or Kafka teams and guess which team had more to benefit from Ruan Meis entire kit in practice? Kafka teams
I pulled Ruan Mei for my Kafka team back in the day of her first release, and she worked wonders for that team/playstyle. Add in BS and man that team was good. However, one thing to note about Mei in break teams, specifically, Super Break teams is that Super Break scales off of Toughness Reduction. Break Effect applies to the initial break of the bar, so the more you have the more it does. SB converts the toughness reduction of the attack you did and calculates that into the SB damage. So ruan mei having Weakness Break Efficiency into her kit pairs really well with HTB providing super break. Not outright disagreeing with your analysis, but i did want to throw that into the factor.
Its just like the trend that dps units already went through. They released a number of generic hypercarries that could all utilize the same small number of supports as a starter, then began to phase in units with actual synergies to form the team archetypes. Ruan Mei, the very first limited support, conforms to this pattern by being a generic support that can work with any team as they phase in supports to fit into the different team archetypes. Sparkle specifically buffs mono-quantum, Robin specifically buffs follow ups, and Gae-miko specifically buffs ultimates, giving them all clear dedicated purposes. At the end of the day, Ruan Mei is likely just a placeholder that was made incredibly strong because they knew she would need to hold that place for a very long time.
The fact that Ruan Mei's Lightcone works better on Harmony Trailblazer is enough to convince me that she isn't made specifically for Break. If Harmony Trailblazer is the core of any Break team, Ruan Mei is at most an extender.
If the "Single new unit" 2.6 patch thing is true, Break players will have a good chunk of time before a dedicated Break buffer harmony unit drops. While Rappa (the erudition break dps coming in 2.6) looks really cool, and will probably powercreep all the PF dps'ers, I don't think her performance will even come near Firefly and Boothill in MoC and Apoc Shadows. Also, if the "vivid dreams" about the upcoming relic sets are any indication, good ol' hyper carry crit dps might be back in focus soon (prayge)
@@letsrank9349Grow up. Being correct isn't being a fence sitter. There is 0 buffs in her kit that exclusively buff DoT and nobody else. Atk on e2? Multiple other archetypes use that. Dmg% on e? Multiple other archetypes use that. Extended breaks? Literally everyone benefits from that and deals (i believe) 10% more damage to weakness broken enemies, not just DoT teams like Solo suggested. Res pen works for every archetype, defense shred works for every archetypes. Literally 0 of her buffs were made for DoT specifically. Robin's talent says what? That she buffs follow up attacks specifically. Kafka does what? Detonates DoTs specifically. Bronya and Sparkle do what? Buff crit damage and dmg% specifically (and action extension). They are specifically with who they buff. Ruan Mei has 0, I repeat 0 buffs that ONLY apply to DoT.
While I get that she has very universally supporting abilities, I'm pretty sure they just built her as an all-rounder to avoid her being too OP for some teams, but covering enough for new players to go around. In all honesty, some early eidolons just suck ass and are part of the reason some characters have fallen off. You think Ruan Mei has goofy eidolons? The last Eidolon for Seele gives her a DoT. So is Seele a DoT character? No, they just did something fucking dumb and now the character is gathering dust because of it. It's like other people are saying here in the comments, she just is a very good general support, because she is the ONLY one atm that can help Super Break, they call her the best for those teams. Finally, as someone posted below, she IS designed for break effect because DOT AND SUPER BREAK BENEFIT FROM HER BUILD. She's just an all-rounder, how is this even a debate? I feel like we're fighting on the wrong hill...
@@Yumiaia-26 Her Ult just gives another turn before they can go which sometimes doesn't happen due to how fast the mob is. While this can be useful for DoTs, only Bleed is the break DoT with enough damage to matter. In all honesty, keeping the enemy in a broken state is likely just because of that extra 10% you do period when hitting a broken enemy, which is good across the board. Are there instance where letting the mob regenerate their toughness being better? Sure, but not every instance. So in all likelihood, they made her a temporary bridge to help with teams that they haven't implemented yet, but could work for until they drop the character specific builds. Part of the problem of early HSR characters is they suffered from the same issues as Genshin which led to power creep, but after Blade's release, we start to see character's that are more specified in their purpose preventing them from easily overpowering others. While Acheron is very strong, do remember that she is our first Emanator which will more than likely be a thing for each one we rung into along the story. Ultimately the real failure is the early release of characters without supports that can give them their full strength. So in the end, while Ruan Mei CAN help DoT, saying she is designed for it is wrong, more than likely she was a bridge break effect character designed to cover for others until the release of specific supports good for certain teams. It's why power creep hasn't crushed WuWa, because a LOT of the characters released so far have supports that boost not only certain types of damage, but also different elemental types. The real test will be once we get to 3.0 and see how the scaling is handled all the way till new content.
After watching this video, it feels stupid for me to forget that Ruan Mei has been carrying my DoT team until Firefly came out to steal their support (and also I get why I was so lost on deciding which team should I put Ruan Mei on because I'm a heavily invested DoT main)
That just goes to show you how universal Ruan mei is. That goes for all the harmony supports too. Like my Robin has taken Ruan mei’s place in my dot team even tho she was “made for FUA”
It's also worth pointing out that Super Break is the only form of damage that scales on toughness damage dealt. Regular break scales off of max toughness, which Ruan Mei does not buff in a signficant way (as mentioned in the video). If anything, she would be a Super Break support, specifically. Super Break was introduced into the game in the form of HTB over 4 months after Ruan Mei's initial release, which does not really support the argument that Ruan Mei is a Super Break support, either.
Leaked HTB preliminary kits from july last year did not use toughness damage in this way, and instead they created extra toughness bars to break. Ruan Mei already had Weakness Break Efficiency in her leaked kit a month prior, which is why I think it's unlikely they made this with super break in mind. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Assuming they had it all planned, it doesn't make sense that they would give her a damage% buff as massive as 68% instead of, say, vulnerability that would still work just as well for anything that isn't break, but would also increase (Super) Break damage. Sure, 68% vulnerability would have been much better than 68% damage%, but they could just as well scale it down to be a similar boost on average.
@crashsparrow6943 idk wha to say other than, no, I still believe it was known before hand, it's a company not a indie developer, they have enough resources to have enough being worked on to know into the future
I dropped HSR like a month ago but still watch you the game is literally the biggest example of what a gacha game is. Just a money and time sink, guised in the appearance of anything but. The moment Persona X comes I’ll finally have something to fill my turn base brain to do.
I chalk it up to her being the first Limited Harmony in the game so she's made to be a little bit more general since we didn't really have any obvious niches being pushed early on (DoT was in its early "meta" stages prior to Black Swan even if Kafka helped made it a thing) and since DoT was the thing they kind of "pushed for" ever slightly they leaned in Ruan Mei being /slightly/ nicer for it. It wasn't until Sparkle/Robin/HMC where we see Harmonies getting pushed into a smaller niche to assist for more specific teams and I feel like that's what their going to do moving forward with future 5* Harmonies
i mean cant you argue that she was designed for both dot and break but clearly designed in a way where she could be meaningfully replaced but still valuable as she is multi to all purpose in everything she provides?
I can see where you’re coming from, where there is a chunk of RM’s kit that isn’t used in break teams, but personally, I’d argue that RM was made not just for DoT teams, but for dual dps comps like Jingliu/Blade and even hypercarry in mind considering at the time she was released in 1.6, other archetypes like Break and FuA weren’t as big as they are now. And yeah even “regular dps” units want enemies to be in break as they will only take 90% damage when they have toughness active as well as the defensive aspect of enemies not attacking you. Heck, I remember using a jank Himeko/Blade team with Ruan Mei to clear as many floors as I could in MoC when I was relatively new.
@@XgoSolowell we do know if they write it out for us on the skill descriptions but the fact that Ruan mei is so universal it’s hard for everyone to come to the same conclusion on who she was made for
@@XgoSolo i mean, hoyo do plan charecter months in advance, it wouldn't be Farfetch, to think that they knew that they were going to make a break meta when making ruan mei, besides they could have planned to make her to be a top tier break support, while still making her a dedicated DOT support, they could had very well have had break in mind while making her, it's hard to come to a conclusive answer when ruan mei is so universal unless you were one of the person making her
There is a certain skill that would absolve these issues. It’s called “Media Literacy,” and I’m not going to waste my breath arguing with people who don’t have it
Yeahhhh sorry but she is. She gives 20% break effect and 10% speed for just existing, boosts weakness break efficiency by 50%, buffs all type res pen by 20%, and keeps enemies broken significantly longer for extra Super Break damage. The ONLY base buff that doesn't apply to break teams is her dmg% buff on her e. 5 out of her 6 base buffs are break related or BiS for break. If she was a dedicated DoT support then she'd buff the damage of DoTs directly and give more speed/atk base. You're also factually wrong about DoT benefitting from breaking...every character that deals damage ever gets (i believe) 10% more damage to broken enemies. Meaning super break, hypercarry, fua, DoT etc get that buff. Your only argument is her e2 and E. I wouldn't call 3/8 DoT specific buffs (+ speed) a dedicated DoT support. You think these devs are so stupid that they didn't take Ruan Mei's break extension into account when making Super Break? I hate black and white takes like this. She was not intended as a dedicated DoT support, she was intended to be a GENERAL support for literally every team. Who also benefits from attack on e2? Hypercarry and Fua. Who also benefits from extended break? Hypercarry and fua. Who also benefits from dmg%? Hypercarry and Fua. She has 0 DoT specific buffs that don't also benefit multiple other team archetypes. That is the opposite of a dedicated DoT support. You can think she's not a dedicated break if you want, but two wrongs don't make a right. Being right isn't being a fence sitter, you are wrong.
Your entire argument can be boiled down to: her kit doesn’t say “DoT dmg buff” so she’s not a DoT damage buffer. Therefore. I’m not going to entertain your nonsense further
@@XgoSolothey've got a point tho, I was gonna leave a comment but I'll just leave it here instead, that being, on the luocha thing, no, that's literally wrong, 1 those stats function completely differently, and 2, tha would make him a hybrid as he still heals DUH silly, and yea, he was a dps support hybrid at launch, hence, tha argument, meant nothing, oh and also I'll also leave this here, the damage bonus from toughness break if it even exists, I doubt it but say it exists, it changes nothing because in the long run, not being able to work on breaking the enemy means much less damage, and thus, a net negative, so really altho she can be used anywhere basically technically, she was ultimately designed for super break, and don't say they didn't think of it back then either cause they definitely did, unless the developers are indie developers there prolly looking into the future and for star rail, definitely yea, and it's so obvious with how much of a lock and key situation Ruan Mei and super break was
I agree that RM initially was just made for DoT, but that doesnt exclude her from being the break support they had in mind for the team. If you go back and look at the leaks of Sam and HMC in the 1.5/1.6 Era they were far from what they are today. The change from HMC going to super break, a damage type that scales off toughness damage and def shred (both buffed by rm), instead of their initial kit which now basically is March 7ths and Firefly going from a HP scaling hypercarry Crit DPS to a break DPS that can only do damage when superbreaking, really shows you where they wanted to take the team. While they didnt make RM for the team initially, they somehow throughout the versions crafted the team around her now to the point she is the BiS option and her break efficiency, spd and especially keeping enemies broken are invaluable for the Superbreak playstyle. So at least imo, Ruan Mei wasnt built for Superbreak, but instead Superbreak was made around her afterwards. She could get replaced for sure but I am fairly confident that if we get a new dedicated break support, they replace HMC instead as they clearly intend for RM to be a core part of the team. I feel like thats also fairly apparent when you consider when she reran lol.
OK then,i would simply argue that she isnt a dot specific support either.I wonder why dot has fallen of so much?????fua was shit till robin came,now its bis team comp,and for break we have hmc and ruan meir(for now) and in the same fashion dot will need a dedicated support cause as of right now there is nothing that directly buffs dot damage,just because ruan mei by existing makes dot playstyle easier,it deosnt mean she was MADE for dot,cause then you would 2 braincells to make the same connection like how robin->fua,but almost noones thinks ruam mei->dot.Ruan mei was the first limited 5 star harmony at a time where everyone was asking for one since the 1.2 iirc so she had some big shoes to fill and that is why they made her an all-purpose support so that EVERYONE,regardless of playstyle(dot,hypercarry,double dps,main-sub,follow-up/summons kek) at the time,would NEED her.Leaks say that the next harmony will buff summons so we are seeing a trend where every new harmony(from sparkle onwards) will fulfill a specific playstyle and depending on what the 3.X new units will be based off the posibility of dot getting dedicated support faster than break seems more likey as of right now,so ruan mei even though she is not a dedicated break support she is probably more of break sup than dot and if the new dot support does come first it means the devs also think the same
Wasnt this already pretty obvious? I know this is the hoyo community we’re talking about but like seriously, the break efficiency is pretty much the only reason why we’re using her rn, if anything id LIKE her to be powercrept in break since then we can run her on the other side 🤣 if anything the break support is hmc
Yeah man its not like she gives break effect and speed for free while reducing the res pen of enemies and extending the time they are broken for extra Super Break damage...nah man, just that one buff is allll we're using her for.
After I got ruan mei back in 2.3 I thought now my break team is complete but honestly after many times of using her with firefly I really felt that she doesn't belong here like what else does she do expect for break efficiency and res pen? Break teams need at least break damage bonus or something that could further support the super break from mc - ik that sounds crazy but the damage bonus from her kit and the res pen aren't enough and the break efficiency doesn't mean that this character is made for break team. I completely agree with you
@@theballadeer9504 see issue is with FF she scales off Break effect speed atk and even tho she gets speed and efficiency ,speed can be changed with better stats and then efficiency? More speed more turns so it can cover it up and if HMC is there they can ofc or Gallagher ofc other than that she dosen't get the super break DMG bonus from Ruan while HMC is exactly for super break and break on itself. U can see a drastic change in her DMG with and Without HMC ult on which is a lot than not having Ruan buff(unless it's E1 Ig due to def down but still it'll be less drastic than that of HMC without ult)
@@theballadeer9504 To me is crystal clear that she is indeed a break support no one in the game give break Efficiency to the allies, she also give break Effect and Speed the 2 most desire stats for break DPS, als she give 25 res pen another universal DMG bonus, and E1 ignore 20% Def so she have 4 buffs that break DPS need to amplify their DMG, but this are also buffs that another DPS, DoT and Crit DPS can use as well. She was made with break meta in the future, but in her release date they have to put in her kit the DMG bonus or no one at that time would pull for her.
Yeah man its not like she gives you free break effect and speed for just existing as well as an extended window to deal Super Break damage with her flower debuff. On top of the 2 buffs you mentioned yourself which are also great for Break teams. 5/6 of her base buffs heavily support break effect. If you can't tell what she's doing on your team then you're either stupid, have a trash ruan mei, or lack the ability to read.
She was meant to be a DoT support that can work in other team, now she used in break because she's the only one buffing it ( and robin, sometimes Jiaoqiu, can match her performance in DoT team ), I wonder what people will say when she will become "homeless" as a new break support comes out. Anyway, I agree with your point of view on her original purpose, however I think that some of your arguments didn't really make sense or were said in a way to only shed the light on the effect that she has on dot and nothing else. For instance at 4:10, being weakness broken increase all types of damage ( except Break/superBreak ofc because the ennemy HAS to be broken to take those damage ), not just DoT. Or when talking about the character that released around her ( I understand that it is not one of your main points but still, by that logic you could argue that Kafka is not a DoT unit because in 1.2 she was released with only a 4 star DoT ), you didn't even mentionned FUA characters that were present every time ( and worked very well with her on release but Robin is now a true dedicated support, and as Ruan Mei is now matched in DoT, I would'nt be surprised if a better dot support comes out during 3.X ). Even when talking about how "useless" her delaying the action of the ennemy with her flower is, it can serve a purpose as Bosses get gradually faster and have more HP ( like a certain 2.5 boss ) so it's not completly useless ( or at least it's more usefull that 20% break effect on a DoT team ). It's just some nitpicking of a few things I didn't fully agree with while I was watching, but I agree with the overall point and the fact that the Hoyo community can be somewhat close-minded when it comes to criticism about the game or "established knowledge" about it.
She won’t be homeless we still need 2 teams for endgame and you’ll be able to run 2 break teams once we get another break support And even still Ruan mei is so universal you can still use her in other teams
On my account Ruan Mei is a Imbibitor Lunae buffer, because I have him E2 and use Sparkle, so he gets a lot of turns. So using Ruan Mei is nice as her buffs are based on her own turns instead of Imbibitor Lunae’s.
“But she can still break me anytime” Though in all seriousness I have run her with sampo and pela to farm for destruction trace mats and it makes it a breeze. Break effect is literally what strengthens DoT teams so it just makes sense for Ruin Me to be in those teams. Also, keep doing this stuff my guy it’s really refreshing to see someone give a different opinion on the hoyoverse games or just an opinion in general, keep it up 👍
while i agree shes not a dedicated super break support, i dont agree that shes a dedicated Dot support, shes a universal support that works on every archtype, just like we may get a dedicated break support in the future, we will also get a dedicated Dot support.
in my observations on these kind of mechanics that have basicly a linkpin effect on something completely meta defining in a later state that was the first to release. that first instance of it was their want to expand on that kind of mechanic, which in this case, probably lead to super break, because they wanted to add more to what break effect characters do more after they break a unit. funny enough because of ruan meis increasing how fast a break triggered, she also created a unique problem of her ult keeping them down so they couldnt actually break again making those units do vary little damage despite the fact she gave res pen as a dmg buff on her ult, her entire kit is all about damage boosting, with breaking a enemy faster part of that. so from my point of view, super break was actually a attempting fix for the unique problems that ruan mei creating for break teams. many units that exist the further into these games usually attempt to ether capitalize on a not well used mechanic, make a new mechanic, or attempt to fixed something they dont consider in a good state(gacha games cant nerf things most of the time, so they always got to go the long way around to fix things). harm TB directly feels like a combo of those 3 things because of the fact they made a new mechanic that capatlized on they considered in not a significant good state, well also directly working with the one char that had it as a unique downside when it should of bin a upside. i do say that there is a long enough time between ruan mei and harm TB that this did come up as a unique problem that has a strong enough of a down side with break DoT teams that they would want to look more into it.
My personal theory is that Sunday going to be a full on break support cause I remember hearing somewhere that rappa is supp to be a break dps and going by hoyoverse track record and the leacks Sunday a harmony character, and that we’re going back to penacony I think he’s going to be one of the
@@XgoSoloShe doesn't apply DoT, freeze isn't that desirable on enemy since dot teams prefer enemy moving more and Robin just buffs DoT more (and Jiaoqiu with Eidolons ends up outperforming robin due to his own dot)
@@XgoSolo also for her ultimate, yeah being weakness broken means more dot damage but majority times enemy just moving more in a cycle means more proc for dots so it ends up hurting the damage than benefiting especially in case of fast enemies. Breaking right now is good cuz dot teams are relatively fragile so enemy big gimmick can kill you but in future when dot have Aventurine type sustain you are better off that enemy recover quick from break. Her already being third best in dot teams based on investment really doesn't make her prospect look good as pure dot support
Finally, someone that have the same opinion as me. I mean yes, she has wb efficiency but few of her other buff doesn't even usuable for break team like damage boost. She is more like universal support then dedicated break team, all team she in will always good. While the other 5 star harmony more orientated on one single case. Like robin on fua team and sparkle on hypercarry team. Yes, they still good on other team but on their specific team can utilise the buff on fullest potential.
Fence sitter, anyway you can't say Ruan Mei is general support and Robin is fua specific, Robin I love, but, she hardly benefits fua better over any other team, main reason why she's always first to get booted off fua team, yes she was designed around fua, but she doesn't benefit from or benefit fua much at all, on the other hand Ruan mei's kit is tailor made for break even with the "throw away" dmg% especially her ult which has the action delay, which only super break can truly use properly
I agree Ruan mei was defs built for dot, i actually think she was made to enhance break aspect of dot but obviously the cant just ignore the rest of it, hence the damage percent buff on her skill. Also the break dot is usually a lot beefier than regular dots so having weakness break efficiency gives you access to that break dot more often so it makes sense for a dot support to have it along side havin break% buffs obviously she does work with pure break/super break teams but the fact that her damage percent buff, which is one of her main buffs, does nothing for break is evidence enough that she isnt teh defacto break support. We dont have one yet. The part i disagree with is her not being an all purpose support, say this because i see nothing in her kit that doesnt benefit all teams, the increased damage you deal to enemies when they have no weakness meter applies to all characters not just dot. Her damage % buff and res pen buff also apply to all damage dealers, even more so in the future if we get characters that dont just have attack scaling damage she'd actually work for every type of dps whereas some other supports just wont. the last thing i wanna point out is if you remove ruan mei, you actually end up with no supports for dot lol, so it kinda just has to be the case. My personal opinion is that ruan mei is a multi dps support and not a dot support and dot is just part of the larger subset of multi dps
Well you convince me 🤝 and that new Break support might just be The New 5 Star Tingyun and Harmony Trailblazer was just the Appetizer! Sucks that E2 Ruan Mei doesn’t work with Firefly 😭 I always thought it did
I kind of agree with this take, all things considered. It's an idea that I've been considering for a while, especially because of how well she synergises with HuoHuo, which is also considered the support for DOT (and Ultimate focused) units. At E0, she provides almost everything that the team needs but attack, which is boosted by HuoHuo's ultimate. Huo Huo's energy regeneration makes both Ruan Mei and Blackswan's ultimates much easier to use in a 3T rotation with comfortable SP usage. The Break Efficiency buff and the break delay also reduce the need of heals, so the team can stay at good health without much trouble. Robin in a DOT team does work, but it feels much more awkward. Breaking takes forever, Concerto messes up the team SP economy, I had to use HuoHuo's skill more often and Blackswan used basic attacks most of the time. The team doesn't have a high enough attack frequency to get the most out of Robin either.
No way I really just saw someone say this XD 1 like him you also needa consider, 1 the fact tha this doesn really benefit dot more than any other group, and 2 the fact tha none break teams are at a net negative when it comes to Ruan Mei, she doesn't benefit them enough to make up for wha a extra break delay turn means, less dps, yes dot included even if we give tha dot does more in weakness state which I don't believe, but even if, still a net negative and on the other hand, 2, Robin is good on dot wha are you on abou, she's the prime dot support rn, like huohuo she's gotta be replaced with a dedicated support, but she's good in the meantime plus "they don't attack frequently enough" are you sure you know how to use kafka?, Kafka is a dot fua, an she therefore really helps the dot team and robin
Boothill doesn't run Super Break is because his talent is better than Super Break. So with Bronya, not only he breaks faster, but also do more damage. The reason FF has to run Super Break comp is because her Super Break multiplier is too low to run anything else. Fire and Physical Break has the same Break damage multiplier which is 2.
I hope one day Hoyo will release a dedicated Break support so I can return my DoT comp to it's old glory. I was having the best time with my premium DoT comp until I pulled FF and realized Break performs much better than DoT. Still I hope we get some kind of DoT buff in the form of new relic set or new mechanic or something.
XD Ruan Mei is the break support, I mean her ult, only super break can realistically use, everyone else is at a net negative, and really it's dot tha needs a new support
@@Yumiaia-26 RM skill gives 32% DMG Bonus + 50% Break Efficiency with her Trace gives extra 36% DMG Bonus. Total of 68% DMG Bonus and 50% Break Efficiency. But Break units don’t scale off DMG Bonus making thats 68% DMG Bonus a total waste. If you don’t believe me, just search for Break/Super Break DMG Calculation. Buff/Debuff that can help Break’s DMG are “RES Pen/Vulnerability/DEF Pen/Break Efficiency”. There is 1 more I think but I forgot. RM Ult gives 25% RES PEN which is universal buff which works with all type of DMG so its not Break-comp specific. You might think the Delay on Mei’s Ult only benefits Break but its actually really good everywhere. Cause delaying enemy’s action helps creating alot of strategies like No-sustain comp for example. DoT comp also benefits alot from the delaying cause usually the delay doesn’t push enemy too far in action order. So they will take there turn again soon. This is extremely helpful for DoT cause BS’s special effect of Arcana only takes effect during enemy’s turn
Let’s face it, DOT barely benefits from break, maybe except Boothill but why would you use him as DOT?? DOT break numbers that aren’t physical are so low it barely makes a difference. So, if anything, all compositions will not benefit from at least one of the stats: Break Comps not benefitting from DMG% and DPS comps not benefitting from break effect. As for WBE, EVERYONE benefits from it. Remember when the WBE blessing in simuverse was (and still is) a top priority? Break comps did not even exist at that point yet it shows why WBE is such a strong general stat for everyone and not just Break or DOT. Heck, even the Break delay can still benefit all DPS’es as all of them deals more damage to them and can usually make DPS’es squeeze in one more attack for the kill. Even in a DOT perspective, that’s just one extra DOT trigger and possibly one DOT detonation which usually happens in one turn to begin with. You may argue that if DPS’es (Crit or DOT) won’t get another turn in spite of the delay, DOT would still deal damage regardless unlike Crit but because of how Swan’s kit is made, that extra trigger usually deals no damage because it would have no stacks after the first DOT pop. IMO, if they wanted RM to be an absolute must-have DOT support, they could’ve converted Black Swan’s EHR to DMG% bonus into EHR to ATK% as to make Black Swan benefit more from RM’s DMG% bonus. Or… decrease Black Swan’s Ult cost as to fully utilize her stacks while RM ult is active. Or… create a Physical Break DOT 5*. But they didn’t. Honestly, this discussion can never be proven right or wrong, simply because one day they could simply release supports that more specialized than RM in DOT and Break to begin with. Well, unless they release a Physical 5* DOT that actually benefits massively from break and DMG% at the same time for whatever reason then ok sure you got me. However, at this point, she is a GENERALIST support and it will always stay this way. In a financial standpoint, hyv would still benefit from a generalist support because they were never supposed to outshine a specialist in their niche in the first place, and people oftentimes are locked in to their BiS comps. If anything, Genshin has proven that generalist supports do still bring out a ton of value and they still milk the sht out of him to this day (Kazuha). But otherwise (since both are still different games with different mechanics), they’ve already milked the sh*t out of RM’s banner sales enough.
This is the problem i have with Ruan Mei.. The only thing that works for break from her kit are the All-Type Res Pen, and the Weakness Break Efficiency.. The dmg bonus just became useless.. I would say, characters that benefits fully from her as of now (besides DOT) are Xueyi and Sushang.. Just cuz xueyi would get more stack for her FUA, and more stack for entanglement.. And the delay works well for her if you do Superbreak Xueyi.. And sushang really loves the delay because she gain extra dmg against weakness broken enemies, and she benefits from breaking the enemies faster..
1 doesn't necessarily matter Robin is a super good universal support for example, especially for dot and she uses crit which is hard for dot to use, 2 firefly
My take on the matter is that saying she was meant for DOT and thus isn't a dedicated Break support is a bit of a stretch. It's pretty clear Hoyo knows the general future meta they're gonna create, and thus put all the buffs in Ruan Mei's kit that can work with both Break and DOT, because both have similar requirements (not critting, needing to go fast, benefit from Breaking). Also I do realise all of her buffs benefit DOT whereas the 68% dmg bonus does nothing for Break, but that's the only thing. Heck how does DOT realistically use the 20% Break effect, or the WEakness Break Effif any one of the DOT units are off element. In such cases you usually end up killing the enemy before they break, especially as the DOT procs themselves don't decrease toughness. Robin is sometimes better for DOT in off element. I could even make the argument she is better for follow up teams because they use most of the buffs as well. She is just generic as hell. Most importantly, other than the Dmg bonus, she is quite literally perfect for Break teams. Break effeciency, Speed and Break extension. In superbreak, the extension itself is like a 25 % dmg increase and the Weak Brk Eff is a direct 50%. I could argue the Dmg bonus helps her enable hybrid build. For example I used Superbreak Dan IL(HMC, Ruan, Gallagher last Moc) and he cleared faster than his hypercarry team with 5 star supports. He was built normally with crit and all, the break effect was supplied with HMC and Ruan Mei. Overall my argument is that most of her buff her bit toooo synergistic with Break, a 'dedicated support' would have to literally close to copy her kit, and remove the DMG bonus and instead give more Break Efficiency, Break effect or give Superbreak.
It’s incompetence actually. The problem is they believe(d?) breaking toughness bar, BE%, and so on are useful to dot units when it isn’t. It’s obviously part of the DOT identity based on the break SU buffs.
I think she is designed to be all around support not because Im a fence sitter but her kit is just good on almost any team but will not be the best. She is our first limited harmony character. DoT right now dont really benefit from element damage boost. She is just a generic support for our generic crit dps. If we get more specific support, she is either replaced for that team (like follow up) or became second support for no sustain team. She will never be the best support in the future. But right now she is coincidentally a break support because of her break boost nad break efficiency. If she a dedicated break team her basic atk will be made to have a lot of toughness damage.
so I get what you are saying but on some level it is really hard to get inside the head of the company. the DOT support is kafka you could argue she is the "DPS" but the dot comp is a pure support comp. mei's buffs do line up well but pela's debuffs line up well for jingliu and just because there is basically nobody else that can take advantage of her ice res decrease doesn't not make her best comp an acheron comp. same thing here FF is so broken even when the break support will inevitably release, mei's best team comp will be an unoptimal break comp.
fair argument, the dmg bonus is indeend useless for Super Break dmg team. but dmg Pen, Break Effect Buff , weakness efficiency, Delay Break. and that didnt counting if your Ruan mei also wear 4 set watch maker or the next Plannar set that give atk. so i belive they will make A NICHE SPECALIZE SUPR BREAK HARMONY, with every single pasive that buff thowards that super break but when you count it, wi till perform 10-20% better than Ruan mei. lol also that delay break is handy tho, that able to make my HMC or gallagher catch up sp, and its still in break weakness stat to the boot. Free SP and dmg is good.
Well its kinda obvious that Ruan Mei isnt a break support,she was release like half a year b4 Boothill(the first premium Break DPS) so she being a DoT support is sommewhat convincing. And while the "all purpose support" argument is somewhat dumb bc Hoyo wouldnt release someone that prevent future money, the things Ruan Mei provides for DoTs are things that pretty much every archetype wants, weakness break efficiency is just more eventual dmg,dmg boost is dmg boost,speed is free and break effect just to make the break efficiency have more to it. The reason why Ruan Mei is "the break support" cuz she is still the only unit that provides break efficiency in the game(the only stat that really matters to break comp tbh)
I had this idea in my mind but hoped it was not true just because I feel like if they create an actual weakness break support it will likely be Sunday and if Sunday is a Firefly slave I am prolly quitting hsr.
We’ll see, as of now tingyun is rumored (by an unreliable leaker) to be a break nihility, but i definitely think rm will be replaced in DoT before she’s replaced in Break. Jiaoqiu and Robin perform similarly (same cycle clears) to rm in DoT. But the same cannot be said for break teams, where rm is damn near irreplaceable. And yes, there can be a harmony/nihility (i think thats most likely a nihility) that has a DoT, much like how ruan mei does break damage even when she doesn’t break the target. If these characters that aren’t made to support dot are clearing just as fast ruan mei that tells us that DoT can get a better support than ruan mei.
Yeah she’s absolutely not a dedicated break support but she’s more of a Jack of all trades support. She is currently the best for break teams but if they make a unit that combines super break and Ruan Mei’s break supporting abilities then Ruan Mei won’t be used as much for break teams. I do think that the Ruan Mei ult’a delay is useful for Firefly teams against bosses though because it you don’t want to waste too many Firefly enhanced attacks on just reducing the toughness bar and you do get an extra turn (or two if there are other enemies there to break for the E2 to activate) to do a lot of damage.
You don't have to be Sherlock to conclude that the unit will get power crept. I think they will start to replace units in BE team from imc and finish on dpses. I can't imagine play ff without rm delay. Also, it is more likely they will replace rm in boothill team than in ff team, due to how bh work. He has his own delay on ult, he doesn't need superbreak to be good. I think you have the point, and I agreed with some of your takes. I think ff will end up being an imc and rm slave, and bh will just get new supports but at the end ff and boothill will be powercrept with new be dps who will make around this new be sustains and supports, just like ff was made and balance around imc and ruan mei. Maybe rm was a dot support in the first place, but sad reality ff was balanced around already existed support.
It is true that DMG from Overtone does not help with breaking. But it is the only one buff that doesn't buff break. And it is here for a reason!!! The same reason why boothill has trace that gives him crit stats - you do not always break enemies. So you really do need such side buffs to able to kill at least smaller enemies even if they are not weak to your type
I may be wrong but i think RM works better in a SB team that doesn't use a "pure break dps" (firefly) but rather a crit/hybrid based dps (himeko/sushang hybrid, xueyi), because the dmg% buff would still be useful for the crits (not as much for xueyi since she already drowns in dmg% anyways but u get my point) which is kinda sad considering superbreak himeko was supposed to be a budget firefly but she turns out to have a better synergy with ruan mei's entire kit rather than firefly
people arguing against prob are just too close minded imo , ruan mei is almost perfect for dot. you also forgot to mention the weakness delay: advances the enemy by 50% after skipping their turn(same as freeze iirc), which implies they proc the DOT once AGAIN super fast. the backloaded dmg typing dot proccing again is such a perfect synergy.
True man like 3 of her base buffs synergies with DoT...while 5/6 of her base buffs synergies with break teams as well as every other archetype in the fucking game. Whats so hard to understand about the fact she's a general support and a damn good one at that? She synergies with literally everybody, the flower debuffs interaction with DoT isn't special.
Yeah, every part of Ruan Mei's kit is synergistic with DoT. What really sucks, though, is that despite Robin being a more specialized FuA support, she still provides stronger damage buffs than Ruan Mei on DoT teams. The one advantage Mei has on DoT teams (and teams in general tbh) over Robin is her Ult flowers allowing you to run sustainless comps much more easily, especially as last Fire weak MoC demonstrated with the Gui + Jiaoqiu pairing.
@@jacoblee4709I think that's because robin is overtuned and the game wasn't ready for a specialized support to have full team advance plus massive team wide atk buff imo. In the future this won't be that necessary as we get more harmony and other supports that are in line with her utility
Ruan mei is just a support there happen to have the additions that break is looking for she very much was meant for DOT like you say ots especially true when you look at when she came out Good vid Solo
LISTEN... don't call me out like that lol. I'm *literally* watching this on my 3rd monitor, which is a old ass dell monitor, while I'm doing some other stuff lmfao.
Great video, fascinating idea and discussion. We need more of these! Have you thought of that we're getting strong DPS that don't require energy to ult or function? I think they may continue this. I see that as a way HoYo is trying to keep these strong DPS in their niche while also phasing out characters like tingyun and any future battery characters from interacting with these characters or benefiting them.
The other day I was thinking about how Tingyun used to be universal, but now days her use case is limited to DHIL. Realistically, there aren’t to many scenarios where I see a new energy heavy character coming out now that mechanics are fleshed out and roles are being filled. Sadly that also means Tingyun fell off, but what can you do.
Unfortunately, we already have a break harmony. Their name is trailblazer, the premium break team support will be a nihility I’m calling it now. Might cause enemies to recover from breaks but act like that one weighted curio where they only recover half or a third of their toughness bar, and inflict vuln/def shred. Likely would be a physical/imaginary nihility to work with boothill rappa, and img tb.
It wasn’t by chance hoyo intentionally made Ruan mei more universal as the first harmony 5 star. Nobody wants to roll on a niche 5 star that only works for 1 team comp
(Leaks) Kind of off-topic, but since Rappa and possibly Acheron by rumors it could be possible that if leaks are correct about Sunday in 2.7 he might be an harmony debuffer or harmony especialized in break. Just an assumpiton based on the possible banners alongside Sunday if he comes, what do you think?
I want to point out that he said that ruan mei's delay on the ult does not help the HMC get energie but near the end said that HMC gets a 2 turn ult anyway So it does not matter Good vid tho Also DOT sucks nowadays so who the fuck cares
you don't need to? like, i didn't watch the vid tbh but, the ~96% damg bonus...them breakers ain't got any of them (unless ppl are dumb or pretending to be dumb, they'll speak anotherway round) still, ruanmei performs way too good for being a versatile damg amplifier and we just going take it as a blessing, calling it a day PS: imagine the game just slowly falls apart as you're getting a second dedicated break sp to pair with MC
the delay on Ruan Mei in a Boothill team isnt usful cuse of super break, its useful because it makes boothill's dmg uptime a lot more consistent, he wants to break and keep them broken and Ruan Mei helps doing that pretty well, thou that dosent make her a dedicated break sup, pretty usles comment just wanted to point this out, sure they didnt made her for break but she just working in one is a bit of an understatement cuse she works a bit too good in a break team, thuo that could be cuse we dont have any other unit who buffs break so we shoukd wait and see what happens in the future
Dude, I once said in a comment section of a video comparing Feixiao with Firefly “Robin is the best Feixiao can ever get, while Ruan Mei is the best Firefly can get for now” and I have to repeat that line 4 times in the reply section for a bunch of “high IQ” players insulting me for slightly down talk their favorite waifu Feixiao (which I didn’t even lol) to understand what I was tryna say
I mean yea, that is trash talking those characters, your hinting Robin is so poorly designed she won't be replaced by a Robin v2 type character but Ruan Mei will, and therefor in the same breath saying feixiao is so weak she won't get a new support replacement while firefly will
@@Yumiaia-26 it’s insane how you get that idea from me, you clearly don’t even understand what I was saying? Is this how those poor people took it from me? This is why they’re mad, jeez… imagine being you guys, must be hell
@DegenerateDuck it's just what your saying, your saying 1 character cab be replaced while another can't which implies something being wrong with the one that can't be replaced in this case, in some cases it could mean there that the one that can't be replaced is more special but with the context of this situation that's not really possible
you may actually be right considering *leaks don't read the bottom if ya dont wanna see those* . . . . . . . . . The new form of tingyun looks like they are going to be a specific break support
Asking for basic argument comprehension from hoyo fans is like asking the universe to give you 20 million dollars and the key to heaven
This is the best comment I’ve ever received and I just want you to know that
@@XgoSolo no problem.
I will say that a large reason as to where this mentality comes from is how genshin handled the meta around inazuma era where they constantly made units for certain players style and said play styles ended up being broken when everything came together
You want a basic fact? Alright, there you go:
I'm mentally ill
Feel like Ruan Mei is going to be a jack-of-all-trades (all around good, but not BiS anywhere) support in the future assuming Hoyo creates more specific harmony units. Every time a new archetype harmony releases, she falls out of that specific archetype.
I don’t think you watched the video she’s BiS for DOT or at least that was the purpose of her character kit when she was made. You can argue Robin is better but it’s clear she was made for FUA
Just the damage boost from the skill is enough to make the argument that she is not DEDICATED to break, is the best right now for break but her kit is obviously not 100% into it
Literally just this. This could have been a 10 second video
In response to Luuk, It was originally supposed to be a community post but that wasn’t compelling enough for people.
@@XgoSolo ah alright 👍
@@XgoSolo You do realized critbreak dps exist and can use dmg% right?
like, she literally released with one (Xueyi)
They literally cannot give her skill anything else. If it was ATK% it wouldnt have benefitted 2.0 break dps either. If it was RES pen like her ult, that would of been stupidly broken to give on a passive skill thats always on
@@DCminh-pe9wf her old kit had spd boost instead of dmg%. That would have made her a much better support for break.
You can convince me that Ruan Mei wasn't totally made for Break, but you can't convince me that she was made for DoT.
She "works" with DoT , and that's it. Currently, it's plain to see that what DoT is missing is a true dedicated DoT support, and Ruan Mei is not it.
I'm a full DoT main with E6S5 Black Swan and Kafka E1S1, and I permanently stopped investing into Ruan Mei past E1S0. It's inevitable that she'll be replaced by a true DoT support.
The same can be said about HuoHuo and the DoT sustainer role. She just "works" with DoT, but the archetype would much appreciate an "Aventurine", but for DoTs, not FUAs.
DOT hasn't had an actual support put into the game. Kafka is a sub-dps much in the way Topaz is and Black Swan is the premium 5* that was slotted in, but there's one problem: they actually haven't made a 5* sustain nor support who amplify that. At this point, Huohuo & Ruan Mei act as the default as there's no alternatives tbh. The closet 5* sustainers work way more effectively in other comps, and Huohuo being a battery makes ults go off faster, but she isn't actually adding much to he dots herself or interacting with said dots. Ruan Mei is just good across the board with Robin being behind as again, she has the ability to enable he team in some capacity, but Ruan Mei doesn't have a built in DOT herself (in fact, one big glaring issue in this argument is that ice doesn't even apply a actual dot in any way).
A actual dot harmony character would have to be physical, fire, lightning, or wind to add a dot and add on. Ruan Mei's busted kit just works as again, there's very few teams who don't want what she offers or they benefit slightly more from another buffer if the team only has room for one support, though if two: congrats, behold Ruan Mei.
Plus, another issue in dot calcs is that they trigger from an enemies turn, so while Kafka riggers them: Ruan Mei disabling them for an extra turn actually can be a detriment to the full potential of a dot team as it slows the enemies and well, can prolong them from proc'ing the dots on them as often as they could.
I agree with this as again, the last dot character to be put in was Black swan. Boothill can apply physical dot, but his damage comes from him breaking shields more so than super break like Firefly (who wants enemies in their broken state longer, which guess who pops her head up). Which it's odd to make an argument when yeah, Ruan Mei is very much about break, but she's the first premium support who was to be alternative to Bronya, another harmony character who controlled the meta up to that point.
kind of disagree, the fact that they don't state anywhere in their kits that they ONLY buffs dot, like dot dmg multiplyer or dot vulnerability, doesen't mean that everything they offer isn't tailor made for dots. Again, between ruan mei and huohuo there is not a sigle thing they provide that dot cannot use.
My dot team to this day can 1 to 2 cycle any moc even off element, but dropps of a cliff whenever i have to slot robin in because firefly in the second half.
@cspoon69 1 look at there arguments again, they said tha the break based effects of Ruan Mei, mainly being, thanatoplum rebloom, her ult, the extra turn of broken state is anti synergistic since you want to have the enemies take there turn, and 2 Robin isn't tha bad your prolly using her wrong
@@Yumiaia-26 first i assume we talk about a black swan comp when we talk about dots, everybody else is pretty subpar. You do realize the enemies taking longer allows you to stack a ton more arcana and detonate a lot more arcana with kafka. It's everything but anti synergistic in a ruan mei, kafka, black swan comp. All things you would have known had you either seen the video or played a ruan mei black swan comp.
@cspoon69 yes it does allow you to get more arcana, bu it's still anti synergistic by the very nature of dot, dot characters want the enemy to move so you can detonate the damage, so in conclusion, no
I'm confused as to why you mention Physical DoT for Boothill.
The reason why he does not benefit from Super Break as much, as far as I know, is that he can deal break damage on broken enemies by himself, and Bronya giving extra turns is more impactful than the additional damage from Super Break. A lot of his kit revolves around getting his 3 Pocket Trickshot stacks from breaks/kills at the start of battle, which is part of the reason why he likes Ruan Mei, but he also deals normal crit damage on top. It's not related to DoT in any way.
Edit: I got the answers I was looking for as well as some corrections. Apparently the DoT is significant when you have that much BE, which makes sense in hindsight. Thanks :)
It’s because when he breaks someone there will be bleed due to he’s a physical character. But he’s not really fully dot it’s just the fact he’s physical character that just so happens to apply bleed if they get weakness broken.
boothill with superbreak is basically overkill. His dmg without break dmg is neglible so he does not care for dmg boost and even crit stats. He doesnt need ruan mei or hmc rather all he needed was bronya or sparklez for that action advance.
Additionally only reason people dont use superbreak on boothill was bc it was more beneficial for firefly bc she has spd boost in her kit. Even ruan mei was better for firefly than boothill.
The reason why physical dot was a factor to boothill was bc he is the most likely character to break enemies. Physical break has one of the strongest break bc break bleed does as much as the break dmg.
Team concepts: kafka/luka, boothill, RM and a free slot. Break dmg also benefits from debuffs like def down and vunerability.
The point of the idea is for you to think outside of the box and experiment on team comps.
some of this is false, he does benefit from superbreak and I would say could be more impactful than bronya is most situations, just he has the option to opt out of it unlike firefly. Also his dot when his break exceeds 300% has like 150k physical dots on bosses and elite which is a non-negligible amount of dmg.
@@spinylightgamingboothill with Bronya clears faster than boothill superbreak…
@@eee2107 i mean you can still run bronya with boothill superbreak. Its literally one of the best choices if you dont have RM.
I literally keep telling everyone in my circle that a break harmony will definetelly replace ruan mei in the future, and they all look at me like I'm talking nonsense. Finally someone that agrees
True, for a 'superbreak' harmony that doesn't have ANY superbreak in her kit, Hoyo can easily pump out a premium break harmony.
Honestly a good percent of hsr don't want characters to become more specialized they prefer the game stays the same so they maintain their meta
This point is stupid, powercreep exists, thats the whole point. characters will get replaced even in their own niche, luocha was a perfect example, Huohuo powercreeps him but that doesn't make luocha any less of a healer.
I wonder how though because Dibergent Universe taught me how 2 instances of super break is like coffee and milk
@@bruh454break support ≠ super break support
1. The decision to make ATK buffs not work on firefly was primarily due to Robin being stupidly broken for her in early beta.
2. Ruan Mei's Ultimate which extends weakness break for an extra turn is counter intuitive the playstyle of DoT because you want enemies going as many times as possible and not delaying their action as there is little to no merit in doing so. (It's very valuable for break units however because they get to do much more dmg before the enemy recovers their break bar)
3. Ruan mei was considered very good for DoT teams because at the time the DoT team was one of the only teams that had a dual dps setup (being kafka + a dot dps) and hypercarry buffers like tingyun, sparkle and bronya wouldn't work well on those teams. (Also why she was considered good on a Jingliu and blade team)
4. Robin is now better as general support than ruan mei arguably because of her teamwide action advance, (her and ruan mei are actually pretty even in DoT compositions which should tell you that Ruan Mei's niche was not meant to be a DoT support)
5. The only likely reason why they put things like DMG% buffs in her kit was so that people didn't call her unusable garbage when she first released and gave her more of her Dual DPS composition presence.
There is absolutely nothing in Ruan Mei's kit that points to her being a dedicated DoT buffing support. She is universal in the fact that she can be played there (as most harmony units are) but her primary function on release was being a dual dps buffer. Looking at her kit with the break meta in mind now, you can see that she WAS in fact meant for break this entire time and the point that she will get replaced is mute because you should look at Harmony Trailblazer to see who will likely be replaced next as they are a free unit and Hoyo wants to prioritize sales. (Early albeit questionable leaks suggest that Tingyun's new form has something to do with buffing superbreak). Also, don't forget that boothill exists which ISN'T a superbreak dps and would benefit from someone like bronya more than he would from HMC.
I don't understand why you are willing to die on this hill when your take here makes absolutely no sense. Like I posted on your penacony story video, please stick to story content because you know nothing about the meta and are just feelscrafting everything.
Just from point 2 I can tell you don't know what your talking about in a dot team having them weakness broken longer means you can proc the dots more often as dots are stronger after an enemy is broken
@@a.r5235 While he is kinda wrong for that point, breaking them and letting them recover isn't too much different. Black Swan is more of a DoT support because she increases the damage DoTs do AND has her own DoT.
Ruan Mei just helps them somewhat which does make her usable, BUT NOT THE BEST OPTION. If she was DoT support she would have a DoT and buff DoT damage greatly like Swan does.
Then again, people are proving that she is more of a general use character and then he insults anyone who thinks that. His argument is that Hoyoverse wouldn't do that, but do keep in mind that WuWa implemented the QoL that HSR has before Genshin did.
So it's more that the Genshin team sucks ass than Hoyoverse entirely. Keep in mind he hasn't said shit about ZZZ or Honkai Impact so it's weird to base his opinion on 2 of the many games that Hoyo runs.
@@a.r5235 No, you dont know what you’re talking about. Not all of DoT’s damage comes from kafka retriggering. Black swan loses out on dot hits as well and also any character benefits from enemies being weakness broken, its in the dmg equation. claiming she was made for dot is utter bull. 90 percent of her kit is break oriented and you want to tell me she wasnt meant for break? ur goofy
@@AkantorzI feel like the entire last section just kinda seems random because while I get the wuwa stuff Is in relation to his previous vids it just seems random to bring it up in this context.
@@TheMrAtlasyea because like he mentioned dots get better when the enemy is broken.
The problem again as he mentioned is that dot and break are so tied together that ruan Mei is a character that you either lean entirely into one aspect or the other.
This is interesting when you read the effects of Ruan Mei's lightcone because +60% Break Effect for her is ok, but the +24% DMG is useless in break teams
The 60% break is a personal scaling stat stick present on every dedicated lightcone, and doesn’t serve to benefit the team, which is why I don’t count it
Just proves that she's a general support. Why are we acting like DoT is the only team who likes dmg%? Hypercarry and FUA also love that as well as the extended break. All characters deal extra damage to broken enemies, not just DoT units like Solo said.
Because Break doesn’t benefit from DMG% nor do Weakness Break DoTs
@@XgoSolo Maybe they planned for break characters to deal hybrid damage, both regular damage affected by DMG% + the break stuff.
Then rather went for the superbreak approach, the damage almost all break.
I doubt they had any this stuff planned out from the start.
@@XgoSolo maybe because they didn't plans to make break (well, super break actually) as it's own type. At the start of the game, break is supposed to be gimmick and addition mechanics anyway since all they care about is break effect, elements, and level compared to other damaging types that also care about skill damage multiplier etc
ok here's my theory, maybe she was made for both, her having attack on E2 and team wide dmg% and speed buff and her ult giving res pen and delay and allowing the enemy to take to instances of DoT (similar to freeze) does make her a good DoT support, but all of those buffs and the WBE minus E2 does also suggest she was also made with the break meta in mind, so maybe they just wanted to both give DoT a much needed push and prepare for the future break meta
after all, all premium supports are designed to be usable anywhere with an archetype being their BIS, the reason am skeptical about her being made for DoT is that we got Robin who is BIS for FUA yet she also performs as well or even better than RM in DoT teams
Guess who also likes attack and extended breaks? Hypercarry and FUA. NONE of her buffs are DoT specific. She is a general support. Not a dedicated break, not a dedicated DoT.
@@AmythstGuardian well yeah which is why I said she is usable everywhere, the reason her delay is way more important to break and DoT is because obviously SB wants the enemy to always be broken and the delay causes the enemy to take 2 ticks of DoT in a short period instead of just one
@@zakariamimouni279 yeah, people try to shoehorn the harmony units in categories, where they're OBVOUSLY all designed to be generalists with one specific niche that very, very slightly make them go toward a specific archetype ?
Robin ? universal team-wide buffs, universal team advance forward, she has one buff and one energy mechanic that caters to the FuA playstyle, and the energy part can be manipulated in several ways to just work outside of FuA team anyway.
Sparkle ? aside from her skill buff and Advance forward favoring hypercarry playstyle, everything else she gives + lightcone and eidolons IS a team-wide, universal buff.
Ruan Mei ? Break efficiency and break delay that favors every strat favors *breaking* (and no, not just break teams want these boons. they're just one of them). on top of guess what...universal, team-wide buffs...starting to see a pattern ?
So the whole discussion is kinda moot. This is not "not engaging with the discussion", this is the very reason this game is currently Harmony Star Rail. Every unit ASIDE from the limited harmonies are very, very geared toward archetypes, meanwhile the harmony crew has a few synergies and anti-synergies, but they are obviously designed to fit into as many archetypes as possible. Obviously this might change in the future, with HMC proving they can, and most likely will start to design more specialized Harmony units, but we're not talking about future units, we're talking about the *first* limited Harmony character being designed to be universal with just a little bit of break flavor make her too bland and give her a bit of identity, really.
@@AmythstGuardian characters that I can think of, benefit the most from Ruan Mei are:
Xueyi and Sushang
Both benefit having dmg bonus (and all of the debuff),
both wants to break the enemies faster (xueyi for stacks, Sushang for passive),
both benefits from having the enemies recovery delayed (xueyi super break dmg & stacking entanglement, and sushang can dish out more sword stance)
I always knew ruan mid is not worth it, thankfully i skipped her for Robin.
this is NOT what the video is trying to say bro 😭😭
I would like to make a distinction between break and super break as super break depends on enemies being in the broken state for longer and having break effect, while pure break is concerned on the break instance and subsequent DOT. Both the ult proc and weakness break efficiency are unmatched by any other character and is unique to superbreak.
You do note that firefly and boothill are not as dependent on the extra turns in the broken state time since they already kill however this is only due to the content being beatable in 2-3 cycles. In a long turn fight lasting 10+ cycles both would be better suited to the super break strategy as both want to maximize their attack frequency when the enemy is broken, boothill's ult AV reduction and firefly speed.
Consider Sushang who I think is the best foreshadowing of superbreak with a kit granting speed, advancement, break, and high frequency. Previously playing her for just break, and dot is not viable even with Ruan mei as Luka trumps in DOT application, beak and reproc. New life is given with superbreak sushang that I could only 5 cycle without Ruan mei and 3 cycle with. Like if you want recording. Non firefly and boothill superbreak highly benefit from Ruan mei's existance.
I do grant that Ruan mei's freeze and flower procs are advantageous to DOT as it increases enemy turn frequency and is quite unique. Damage bonus is useful for boothill sushang and other DPS super breaks like Jingyuan as it is a parallel damage strategy. Only Firefly really misses out on damage increase. The speed, broken multiplier, and resistance penetration are agreeably not unique to DOT.
I would hazard against using higher eidolons to explain how.the unit is played otherwise E6 Sparkle looks like a teamwide buffer, E6 Seele looks like it runs dual DPS.
She 100% was a break support because she released with Xueyi(a break crit unit) buuut Xueyi sucked and hoyo realized that so they buff break with introducing super break, and she most likely going to get replaced with another harmony that have both super break and 50% break efficiency that's it, and about her being a dot support, that's also wrong because dot unit created in a way that supporting each other will dealing damage so an ideal dot support going to be a dot nihility something like black swan or a more potent fox dude (I forget his name).
That actually reminds me. This was one of the arguments I forgot about.
The Xyuei argument.
You’d be surprised how many people ride and die on a Single break character existing when Ruan Mei Released so I’m going to say this.
If you think their going to release dedicated 5 star supports for 4 star characters, you’re out of your mind
handwaving the toughness BREAk but causing an uproar because E2 buffs attack. That is certainly an argument.
@@XgoSolo it's not just Xueyi you should also remember the OG break dps Sushang that was the primary picture of a break dps for hoyo and all players a unit that can benefit from attack, damage bonus, break, speed, res pen, and etc that explains Ruin mei skill, e2 and her LC. Break was always a lackluster ability so a break dps needed to also deal critical damage too. Problem with that was the fact that unit like that want all the states on the world and the break gimmick didn't worth it. All of this is assumption though. 🥴
And if hoyo release a support like that with break Efficiency ando super break it won't replace Ruan Mei the HMC is the one getting replace in that scenario, the weakness break Efficiency is to strong for break DPS and super break in general
@@kurokamionce1802 why replace hmc when u can just remove the sustain, because ruanmei is a sustain and ill die on that hill (jk)
I think ruan mei was made to be a good universial support for literally any team because most top team still use her.
Except she clearly leans towards DoT as explained in the video.
@@ectoBiologist21you know its kinda funny that im pretty sure someone tested dot teams with robin and ruan mei and robin still outperformed ruan mei slightly despite being a more crit oriented support
@@seongjaeoh8742 yeah go ahead and post the source
@@ectoBiologist21 I think it was guobacertified's results in his video guide about robin
About 14:43 on that video
But he does clarify that's in theory, and in practice they clear basically at the same time
The new Tingyun from is suppose to be a break support with super break in her kit. That's what the leakers are saying. 🤔
To add on, there was no real "break team" at the time, only Xueyi, Sushang and some coping. The top teams at the time were either DHIL, Jingliu, or Kafka teams and guess which team had more to benefit from Ruan Meis entire kit in practice? Kafka teams
I'm not watching on a second monitor just watching on my phone 😭
I pulled Ruan Mei for my Kafka team back in the day of her first release, and she worked wonders for that team/playstyle. Add in BS and man that team was good.
However, one thing to note about Mei in break teams, specifically, Super Break teams is that Super Break scales off of Toughness Reduction.
Break Effect applies to the initial break of the bar, so the more you have the more it does. SB converts the toughness reduction of the attack you did and calculates that into the SB damage.
So ruan mei having Weakness Break Efficiency into her kit pairs really well with HTB providing super break.
Not outright disagreeing with your analysis, but i did want to throw that into the factor.
Its just like the trend that dps units already went through. They released a number of generic hypercarries that could all utilize the same small number of supports as a starter, then began to phase in units with actual synergies to form the team archetypes. Ruan Mei, the very first limited support, conforms to this pattern by being a generic support that can work with any team as they phase in supports to fit into the different team archetypes. Sparkle specifically buffs mono-quantum, Robin specifically buffs follow ups, and Gae-miko specifically buffs ultimates, giving them all clear dedicated purposes. At the end of the day, Ruan Mei is likely just a placeholder that was made incredibly strong because they knew she would need to hold that place for a very long time.
Perfect timing of a video, releasing before the 2 only DoT unit release next patch. Hmmm, You probably boost that sale up 20% by yourself with this.
The fact that Ruan Mei's Lightcone works better on Harmony Trailblazer is enough to convince me that she isn't made specifically for Break.
If Harmony Trailblazer is the core of any Break team, Ruan Mei is at most an extender.
That's just because she have uptime problems and HMC gain a ton of Energy for free
Solo, i don't know if you are keeping up with leaks or not, but there are rumors that we will be getting an actual break 5* support soon... So yeah 👍🏻
If the "Single new unit" 2.6 patch thing is true, Break players will have a good chunk of time before a dedicated Break buffer harmony unit drops. While Rappa (the erudition break dps coming in 2.6) looks really cool, and will probably powercreep all the PF dps'ers, I don't think her performance will even come near Firefly and Boothill in MoC and Apoc Shadows. Also, if the "vivid dreams" about the upcoming relic sets are any indication, good ol' hyper carry crit dps might be back in focus soon (prayge)
Funny part is the new Tingyun is rumored to be the actual break support
ruan mei is a break/dot/crit dps support. there argument finished
That is the fencesitter argument my friend.
@@letsrank9349 but it’s true she’s a generalist
@@letsrank9349Grow up. Being correct isn't being a fence sitter. There is 0 buffs in her kit that exclusively buff DoT and nobody else. Atk on e2? Multiple other archetypes use that. Dmg% on e? Multiple other archetypes use that. Extended breaks? Literally everyone benefits from that and deals (i believe) 10% more damage to weakness broken enemies, not just DoT teams like Solo suggested. Res pen works for every archetype, defense shred works for every archetypes. Literally 0 of her buffs were made for DoT specifically. Robin's talent says what? That she buffs follow up attacks specifically. Kafka does what? Detonates DoTs specifically. Bronya and Sparkle do what? Buff crit damage and dmg% specifically (and action extension). They are specifically with who they buff. Ruan Mei has 0, I repeat 0 buffs that ONLY apply to DoT.
They didn’t have firefly in mind making e2, at that time she was meant to be a better blade
While I get that she has very universally supporting abilities, I'm pretty sure they just built her as an all-rounder to avoid her being too OP for some teams, but covering enough for new players to go around.
In all honesty, some early eidolons just suck ass and are part of the reason some characters have fallen off. You think Ruan Mei has goofy eidolons? The last Eidolon for Seele gives her a DoT.
So is Seele a DoT character? No, they just did something fucking dumb and now the character is gathering dust because of it. It's like other people are saying here in the comments, she just is a very good general support, because she is the ONLY one atm that can help Super Break, they call her the best for those teams.
Finally, as someone posted below, she IS designed for break effect because DOT AND SUPER BREAK BENEFIT FROM HER BUILD. She's just an all-rounder, how is this even a debate?
I feel like we're fighting on the wrong hill...
End of the day it’s just meta talk, people can argue all they want but it’s up to hoyo how a character will be played
I defer you back to her ult
@@Yumiaia-26 Her Ult just gives another turn before they can go which sometimes doesn't happen due to how fast the mob is. While this can be useful for DoTs, only Bleed is the break DoT with enough damage to matter.
In all honesty, keeping the enemy in a broken state is likely just because of that extra 10% you do period when hitting a broken enemy, which is good across the board. Are there instance where letting the mob regenerate their toughness being better? Sure, but not every instance.
So in all likelihood, they made her a temporary bridge to help with teams that they haven't implemented yet, but could work for until they drop the character specific builds. Part of the problem of early HSR characters is they suffered from the same issues as Genshin which led to power creep, but after Blade's release, we start to see character's that are more specified in their purpose preventing them from easily overpowering others.
While Acheron is very strong, do remember that she is our first Emanator which will more than likely be a thing for each one we rung into along the story. Ultimately the real failure is the early release of characters without supports that can give them their full strength.
So in the end, while Ruan Mei CAN help DoT, saying she is designed for it is wrong, more than likely she was a bridge break effect character designed to cover for others until the release of specific supports good for certain teams.
It's why power creep hasn't crushed WuWa, because a LOT of the characters released so far have supports that boost not only certain types of damage, but also different elemental types.
The real test will be once we get to 3.0 and see how the scaling is handled all the way till new content.
After watching this video, it feels stupid for me to forget that Ruan Mei has been carrying my DoT team until Firefly came out to steal their support (and also I get why I was so lost on deciding which team should I put Ruan Mei on because I'm a heavily invested DoT main)
That just goes to show you how universal Ruan mei is. That goes for all the harmony supports too. Like my Robin has taken Ruan mei’s place in my dot team even tho she was “made for FUA”
It's also worth pointing out that Super Break is the only form of damage that scales on toughness damage dealt. Regular break scales off of max toughness, which Ruan Mei does not buff in a signficant way (as mentioned in the video). If anything, she would be a Super Break support, specifically.
Super Break was introduced into the game in the form of HTB over 4 months after Ruan Mei's initial release, which does not really support the argument that Ruan Mei is a Super Break support, either.
Developers have hindsight of a few patches ahead if there not indie silly XD
Leaked HTB preliminary kits from july last year did not use toughness damage in this way, and instead they created extra toughness bars to break.
Ruan Mei already had Weakness Break Efficiency in her leaked kit a month prior, which is why I think it's unlikely they made this with super break in mind. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Assuming they had it all planned, it doesn't make sense that they would give her a damage% buff as massive as 68% instead of, say, vulnerability that would still work just as well for anything that isn't break, but would also increase (Super) Break damage.
Sure, 68% vulnerability would have been much better than 68% damage%, but they could just as well scale it down to be a similar boost on average.
@crashsparrow6943 idk wha to say other than, no, I still believe it was known before hand, it's a company not a indie developer, they have enough resources to have enough being worked on to know into the future
I dropped HSR like a month ago but still watch you the game is literally the biggest example of what a gacha game is.
Just a money and time sink, guised in the appearance of anything but.
The moment Persona X comes I’ll finally have something to fill my turn base brain to do.
Every live service game is a money and time sink that’s not exclusive to gacha. Welcome to gaming in 2024
I chalk it up to her being the first Limited Harmony in the game so she's made to be a little bit more general since we didn't really have any obvious niches being pushed early on (DoT was in its early "meta" stages prior to Black Swan even if Kafka helped made it a thing) and since DoT was the thing they kind of "pushed for" ever slightly they leaned in Ruan Mei being /slightly/ nicer for it. It wasn't until Sparkle/Robin/HMC where we see Harmonies getting pushed into a smaller niche to assist for more specific teams and I feel like that's what their going to do moving forward with future 5* Harmonies
i mean cant you argue that she was designed for both dot and break but clearly designed in a way where she could be meaningfully replaced but still valuable as she is multi to all purpose in everything she provides?
I can see where you’re coming from, where there is a chunk of RM’s kit that isn’t used in break teams, but personally, I’d argue that RM was made not just for DoT teams, but for dual dps comps like Jingliu/Blade and even hypercarry in mind considering at the time she was released in 1.6, other archetypes like Break and FuA weren’t as big as they are now. And yeah even “regular dps” units want enemies to be in break as they will only take 90% damage when they have toughness active as well as the defensive aspect of enemies not attacking you. Heck, I remember using a jank Himeko/Blade team with Ruan Mei to clear as many floors as I could in MoC when I was relatively new.
I don't think anyone can know unless they're in the development team
Damn.
Then I Guess we’ll just never know if Robin was truly made for follow up since we aren’t on the development team
@@XgoSolowell we do know if they write it out for us on the skill descriptions but the fact that Ruan mei is so universal it’s hard for everyone to come to the same conclusion on who she was made for
@@XgoSolo i mean, hoyo do plan charecter months in advance, it wouldn't be Farfetch, to think that they knew that they were going to make a break meta when making ruan mei, besides they could have planned to make her to be a top tier break support, while still making her a dedicated DOT support, they could had very well have had break in mind while making her, it's hard to come to a conclusive answer when ruan mei is so universal unless you were one of the person making her
There is a certain skill that would absolve these issues.
It’s called “Media Literacy,” and I’m not going to waste my breath arguing with people who don’t have it
@@XgoSolo it's called "take the L mf bozo"
Ruan Mei is a freeze suport
Yeahhhh sorry but she is. She gives 20% break effect and 10% speed for just existing, boosts weakness break efficiency by 50%, buffs all type res pen by 20%, and keeps enemies broken significantly longer for extra Super Break damage. The ONLY base buff that doesn't apply to break teams is her dmg% buff on her e. 5 out of her 6 base buffs are break related or BiS for break. If she was a dedicated DoT support then she'd buff the damage of DoTs directly and give more speed/atk base.
You're also factually wrong about DoT benefitting from breaking...every character that deals damage ever gets (i believe) 10% more damage to broken enemies. Meaning super break, hypercarry, fua, DoT etc get that buff. Your only argument is her e2 and E. I wouldn't call 3/8 DoT specific buffs (+ speed) a dedicated DoT support.
You think these devs are so stupid that they didn't take Ruan Mei's break extension into account when making Super Break? I hate black and white takes like this. She was not intended as a dedicated DoT support, she was intended to be a GENERAL support for literally every team. Who also benefits from attack on e2? Hypercarry and Fua. Who also benefits from extended break? Hypercarry and fua. Who also benefits from dmg%? Hypercarry and Fua. She has 0 DoT specific buffs that don't also benefit multiple other team archetypes. That is the opposite of a dedicated DoT support. You can think she's not a dedicated break if you want, but two wrongs don't make a right. Being right isn't being a fence sitter, you are wrong.
Your entire argument can be boiled down to: her kit doesn’t say “DoT dmg buff” so she’s not a DoT damage buffer.
Therefore. I’m not going to entertain your nonsense further
All that yapping to just be wrong lmao.
@@XgoSolothey've got a point tho, I was gonna leave a comment but I'll just leave it here instead, that being, on the luocha thing, no, that's literally wrong, 1 those stats function completely differently, and 2, tha would make him a hybrid as he still heals DUH silly, and yea, he was a dps support hybrid at launch, hence, tha argument, meant nothing, oh and also I'll also leave this here, the damage bonus from toughness break if it even exists, I doubt it but say it exists, it changes nothing because in the long run, not being able to work on breaking the enemy means much less damage, and thus, a net negative, so really altho she can be used anywhere basically technically, she was ultimately designed for super break, and don't say they didn't think of it back then either cause they definitely did, unless the developers are indie developers there prolly looking into the future and for star rail, definitely yea, and it's so obvious with how much of a lock and key situation Ruan Mei and super break was
I agree that RM initially was just made for DoT, but that doesnt exclude her from being the break support they had in mind for the team. If you go back and look at the leaks of Sam and HMC in the 1.5/1.6 Era they were far from what they are today. The change from HMC going to super break, a damage type that scales off toughness damage and def shred (both buffed by rm), instead of their initial kit which now basically is March 7ths and Firefly going from a HP scaling hypercarry Crit DPS to a break DPS that can only do damage when superbreaking, really shows you where they wanted to take the team. While they didnt make RM for the team initially, they somehow throughout the versions crafted the team around her now to the point she is the BiS option and her break efficiency, spd and especially keeping enemies broken are invaluable for the Superbreak playstyle.
So at least imo, Ruan Mei wasnt built for Superbreak, but instead Superbreak was made around her afterwards. She could get replaced for sure but I am fairly confident that if we get a new dedicated break support, they replace HMC instead as they clearly intend for RM to be a core part of the team. I feel like thats also fairly apparent when you consider when she reran lol.
OK then,i would simply argue that she isnt a dot specific support either.I wonder why dot has fallen of so much?????fua was shit till robin came,now its bis team comp,and for break we have hmc and ruan meir(for now) and in the same fashion dot will need a dedicated support cause as of right now there is nothing that directly buffs dot damage,just because ruan mei by existing makes dot playstyle easier,it deosnt mean she was MADE for dot,cause then you would 2 braincells to make the same connection like how robin->fua,but almost noones thinks ruam mei->dot.Ruan mei was the first limited 5 star harmony at a time where everyone was asking for one since the 1.2 iirc so she had some big shoes to fill and that is why they made her an all-purpose support so that EVERYONE,regardless of playstyle(dot,hypercarry,double dps,main-sub,follow-up/summons kek) at the time,would NEED her.Leaks say that the next harmony will buff summons so we are seeing a trend where every new harmony(from sparkle onwards) will fulfill a specific playstyle and depending on what the 3.X new units will be based off the posibility of dot getting dedicated support faster than break seems more likey as of right now,so ruan mei even though she is not a dedicated break support she is probably more of break sup than dot and if the new dot support does come first it means the devs also think the same
Wasnt this already pretty obvious? I know this is the hoyo community we’re talking about but like seriously, the break efficiency is pretty much the only reason why we’re using her rn, if anything id LIKE her to be powercrept in break since then we can run her on the other side 🤣 if anything the break support is hmc
Yeah man its not like she gives break effect and speed for free while reducing the res pen of enemies and extending the time they are broken for extra Super Break damage...nah man, just that one buff is allll we're using her for.
After I got ruan mei back in 2.3 I thought now my break team is complete but honestly after many times of using her with firefly I really felt that she doesn't belong here like what else does she do expect for break efficiency and res pen? Break teams need at least break damage bonus or something that could further support the super break from mc - ik that sounds crazy but the damage bonus from her kit and the res pen aren't enough and the break efficiency doesn't mean that this character is made for break team. I completely agree with you
@@theballadeer9504 see issue is with FF she scales off Break effect speed atk and even tho she gets speed and efficiency ,speed can be changed with better stats and then efficiency? More speed more turns so it can cover it up and if HMC is there they can ofc or Gallagher ofc other than that she dosen't get the super break DMG bonus from Ruan while HMC is exactly for super break and break on itself. U can see a drastic change in her DMG with and Without HMC ult on which is a lot than not having Ruan buff(unless it's E1 Ig due to def down but still it'll be less drastic than that of HMC without ult)
@@theballadeer9504 To me is crystal clear that she is indeed a break support no one in the game give break Efficiency to the allies, she also give break Effect and Speed the 2 most desire stats for break DPS, als she give 25 res pen another universal DMG bonus, and E1 ignore 20% Def so she have 4 buffs that break DPS need to amplify their DMG, but this are also buffs that another DPS, DoT and Crit DPS can use as well. She was made with break meta in the future, but in her release date they have to put in her kit the DMG bonus or no one at that time would pull for her.
@@kurokamionce1802 but it still is missing something very essential for break team
Yeah man its not like she gives you free break effect and speed for just existing as well as an extended window to deal Super Break damage with her flower debuff. On top of the 2 buffs you mentioned yourself which are also great for Break teams. 5/6 of her base buffs heavily support break effect. If you can't tell what she's doing on your team then you're either stupid, have a trash ruan mei, or lack the ability to read.
Aren’t enough? I’m still reliably 2-3 cycling MOC with ruan mei firefly. If that’s not enough you gotta drop your standards
She was meant to be a DoT support that can work in other team, now she used in break because she's the only one buffing it ( and robin, sometimes Jiaoqiu, can match her performance in DoT team ), I wonder what people will say when she will become "homeless" as a new break support comes out.
Anyway, I agree with your point of view on her original purpose, however I think that some of your arguments didn't really make sense or were said in a way to only shed the light on the effect that she has on dot and nothing else. For instance at 4:10, being weakness broken increase all types of damage ( except Break/superBreak ofc because the ennemy HAS to be broken to take those damage ), not just DoT. Or when talking about the character that released around her ( I understand that it is not one of your main points but still, by that logic you could argue that Kafka is not a DoT unit because in 1.2 she was released with only a 4 star DoT ), you didn't even mentionned FUA characters that were present every time ( and worked very well with her on release but Robin is now a true dedicated support, and as Ruan Mei is now matched in DoT, I would'nt be surprised if a better dot support comes out during 3.X ). Even when talking about how "useless" her delaying the action of the ennemy with her flower is, it can serve a purpose as Bosses get gradually faster and have more HP ( like a certain 2.5 boss ) so it's not completly useless ( or at least it's more usefull that 20% break effect on a DoT team ).
It's just some nitpicking of a few things I didn't fully agree with while I was watching, but I agree with the overall point and the fact that the Hoyo community can be somewhat close-minded when it comes to criticism about the game or "established knowledge" about it.
She won’t be homeless we still need 2 teams for endgame and you’ll be able to run 2 break teams once we get another break support
And even still Ruan mei is so universal you can still use her in other teams
On my account Ruan Mei is a Imbibitor Lunae buffer, because I have him E2 and use Sparkle, so he gets a lot of turns. So using Ruan Mei is nice as her buffs are based on her own turns instead of Imbibitor Lunae’s.
“But she can still break me anytime”
Though in all seriousness I have run her with sampo and pela to farm for destruction trace mats and it makes it a breeze. Break effect is literally what strengthens DoT teams so it just makes sense for Ruin Me to be in those teams.
Also, keep doing this stuff my guy it’s really refreshing to see someone give a different opinion on the hoyoverse games or just an opinion in general, keep it up 👍
while i agree shes not a dedicated super break support, i dont agree that shes a dedicated Dot support, shes a universal support that works on every archtype, just like we may get a dedicated break support in the future, we will also get a dedicated Dot support.
in my observations on these kind of mechanics that have basicly a linkpin effect on something completely meta defining in a later state that was the first to release. that first instance of it was their want to expand on that kind of mechanic, which in this case, probably lead to super break, because they wanted to add more to what break effect characters do more after they break a unit.
funny enough because of ruan meis increasing how fast a break triggered, she also created a unique problem of her ult keeping them down so they couldnt actually break again making those units do vary little damage despite the fact she gave res pen as a dmg buff on her ult, her entire kit is all about damage boosting, with breaking a enemy faster part of that. so from my point of view, super break was actually a attempting fix for the unique problems that ruan mei creating for break teams. many units that exist the further into these games usually attempt to ether capitalize on a not well used mechanic, make a new mechanic, or attempt to fixed something they dont consider in a good state(gacha games cant nerf things most of the time, so they always got to go the long way around to fix things). harm TB directly feels like a combo of those 3 things because of the fact they made a new mechanic that capatlized on they considered in not a significant good state, well also directly working with the one char that had it as a unique downside when it should of bin a upside. i do say that there is a long enough time between ruan mei and harm TB that this did come up as a unique problem that has a strong enough of a down side with break DoT teams that they would want to look more into it.
The background gameplay got me tweaking. I fucking can't, dawg.
My personal theory is that Sunday going to be a full on break support cause I remember hearing somewhere that rappa is supp to be a break dps and going by hoyoverse track record and the leacks Sunday a harmony character, and that we’re going back to penacony I think he’s going to be one of the
One
A break support damn my phone was glitching
I can agree with her not being for super break team but her being DoT support has its own issue.
If it has issues then name them
@@XgoSoloShe doesn't apply DoT, freeze isn't that desirable on enemy since dot teams prefer enemy moving more and Robin just buffs DoT more (and Jiaoqiu with Eidolons ends up outperforming robin due to his own dot)
@@XgoSolo also for her ultimate, yeah being weakness broken means more dot damage but majority times enemy just moving more in a cycle means more proc for dots so it ends up hurting the damage than benefiting especially in case of fast enemies. Breaking right now is good cuz dot teams are relatively fragile so enemy big gimmick can kill you but in future when dot have Aventurine type sustain you are better off that enemy recover quick from break. Her already being third best in dot teams based on investment really doesn't make her prospect look good as pure dot support
Finally, someone that have the same opinion as me. I mean yes, she has wb efficiency but few of her other buff doesn't even usuable for break team like damage boost. She is more like universal support then dedicated break team, all team she in will always good. While the other 5 star harmony more orientated on one single case. Like robin on fua team and sparkle on hypercarry team. Yes, they still good on other team but on their specific team can utilise the buff on fullest potential.
Fence sitter, anyway you can't say Ruan Mei is general support and Robin is fua specific, Robin I love, but, she hardly benefits fua better over any other team, main reason why she's always first to get booted off fua team, yes she was designed around fua, but she doesn't benefit from or benefit fua much at all, on the other hand Ruan mei's kit is tailor made for break even with the "throw away" dmg% especially her ult which has the action delay, which only super break can truly use properly
I agree Ruan mei was defs built for dot, i actually think she was made to enhance break aspect of dot but obviously the cant just ignore the rest of it, hence the damage percent buff on her skill. Also the break dot is usually a lot beefier than regular dots so having weakness break efficiency gives you access to that break dot more often so it makes sense for a dot support to have it along side havin break% buffs
obviously she does work with pure break/super break teams but the fact that her damage percent buff, which is one of her main buffs, does nothing for break is evidence enough that she isnt teh defacto break support. We dont have one yet.
The part i disagree with is her not being an all purpose support, say this because i see nothing in her kit that doesnt benefit all teams, the increased damage you deal to enemies when they have no weakness meter applies to all characters not just dot. Her damage % buff and res pen buff also apply to all damage dealers, even more so in the future if we get characters that dont just have attack scaling damage she'd actually work for every type of dps whereas some other supports just wont.
the last thing i wanna point out is if you remove ruan mei, you actually end up with no supports for dot lol, so it kinda just has to be the case. My personal opinion is that ruan mei is a multi dps support and not a dot support and dot is just part of the larger subset of multi dps
Well you convince me 🤝 and that new Break support might just be The New 5 Star Tingyun and Harmony Trailblazer was just the Appetizer! Sucks that E2 Ruan Mei doesn’t work with Firefly 😭 I always thought it did
Damage boost in the lc proves your point instantly
wrong asf
will be here in a year to see if im wrong or nah
I kind of agree with this take, all things considered. It's an idea that I've been considering for a while, especially because of how well she synergises with HuoHuo, which is also considered the support for DOT (and Ultimate focused) units. At E0, she provides almost everything that the team needs but attack, which is boosted by HuoHuo's ultimate. Huo Huo's energy regeneration makes both Ruan Mei and Blackswan's ultimates much easier to use in a 3T rotation with comfortable SP usage. The Break Efficiency buff and the break delay also reduce the need of heals, so the team can stay at good health without much trouble.
Robin in a DOT team does work, but it feels much more awkward. Breaking takes forever, Concerto messes up the team SP economy, I had to use HuoHuo's skill more often and Blackswan used basic attacks most of the time. The team doesn't have a high enough attack frequency to get the most out of Robin either.
No way I really just saw someone say this XD 1 like him you also needa consider, 1 the fact tha this doesn really benefit dot more than any other group, and 2 the fact tha none break teams are at a net negative when it comes to Ruan Mei, she doesn't benefit them enough to make up for wha a extra break delay turn means, less dps, yes dot included even if we give tha dot does more in weakness state which I don't believe, but even if, still a net negative and on the other hand, 2, Robin is good on dot wha are you on abou, she's the prime dot support rn, like huohuo she's gotta be replaced with a dedicated support, but she's good in the meantime plus "they don't attack frequently enough" are you sure you know how to use kafka?, Kafka is a dot fua, an she therefore really helps the dot team and robin
Ngl I never thought about her like this
Thats actually a cool observation..and it makes sense
I always thought that she is for DoT team thou
Boothill doesn't run Super Break is because his talent is better than Super Break. So with Bronya, not only he breaks faster, but also do more damage.
The reason FF has to run Super Break comp is because her Super Break multiplier is too low to run anything else.
Fire and Physical Break has the same Break damage multiplier which is 2.
I hope one day Hoyo will release a dedicated Break support so I can return my DoT comp to it's old glory. I was having the best time with my premium DoT comp until I pulled FF and realized Break performs much better than DoT. Still I hope we get some kind of DoT buff in the form of new relic set or new mechanic or something.
XD Ruan Mei is the break support, I mean her ult, only super break can realistically use, everyone else is at a net negative, and really it's dot tha needs a new support
@@Yumiaia-26 RM skill gives 32% DMG Bonus + 50% Break Efficiency with her Trace gives extra 36% DMG Bonus. Total of 68% DMG Bonus and 50% Break Efficiency. But Break units don’t scale off DMG Bonus making thats 68% DMG Bonus a total waste. If you don’t believe me, just search for Break/Super Break DMG Calculation. Buff/Debuff that can help Break’s DMG are “RES Pen/Vulnerability/DEF Pen/Break Efficiency”. There is 1 more I think but I forgot. RM Ult gives 25% RES PEN which is universal buff which works with all type of DMG so its not Break-comp specific. You might think the Delay on Mei’s Ult only benefits Break but its actually really good everywhere. Cause delaying enemy’s action helps creating alot of strategies like No-sustain comp for example. DoT comp also benefits alot from the delaying cause usually the delay doesn’t push enemy too far in action order. So they will take there turn again soon. This is extremely helpful for DoT cause BS’s special effect of Arcana only takes effect during enemy’s turn
Follow up support for follow dps
Dot support for Dot characters
Need a fully Qualified break support that I don't currently have
It not that hard
Let’s face it, DOT barely benefits from break, maybe except Boothill but why would you use him as DOT?? DOT break numbers that aren’t physical are so low it barely makes a difference. So, if anything, all compositions will not benefit from at least one of the stats: Break Comps not benefitting from DMG% and DPS comps not benefitting from break effect.
As for WBE, EVERYONE benefits from it. Remember when the WBE blessing in simuverse was (and still is) a top priority? Break comps did not even exist at that point yet it shows why WBE is such a strong general stat for everyone and not just Break or DOT. Heck, even the Break delay can still benefit all DPS’es as all of them deals more damage to them and can usually make DPS’es squeeze in one more attack for the kill. Even in a DOT perspective, that’s just one extra DOT trigger and possibly one DOT detonation which usually happens in one turn to begin with. You may argue that if DPS’es (Crit or DOT) won’t get another turn in spite of the delay, DOT would still deal damage regardless unlike Crit but because of how Swan’s kit is made, that extra trigger usually deals no damage because it would have no stacks after the first DOT pop.
IMO, if they wanted RM to be an absolute must-have DOT support, they could’ve converted Black Swan’s EHR to DMG% bonus into EHR to ATK% as to make Black Swan benefit more from RM’s DMG% bonus. Or… decrease Black Swan’s Ult cost as to fully utilize her stacks while RM ult is active. Or… create a Physical Break DOT 5*. But they didn’t.
Honestly, this discussion can never be proven right or wrong, simply because one day they could simply release supports that more specialized than RM in DOT and Break to begin with. Well, unless they release a Physical 5* DOT that actually benefits massively from break and DMG% at the same time for whatever reason then ok sure you got me.
However, at this point, she is a GENERALIST support and it will always stay this way. In a financial standpoint, hyv would still benefit from a generalist support because they were never supposed to outshine a specialist in their niche in the first place, and people oftentimes are locked in to their BiS comps. If anything, Genshin has proven that generalist supports do still bring out a ton of value and they still milk the sht out of him to this day (Kazuha). But otherwise (since both are still different games with different mechanics), they’ve already milked the sh*t out of RM’s banner sales enough.
This is the problem i have with Ruan Mei..
The only thing that works for break from her kit are the All-Type Res Pen, and the Weakness Break Efficiency..
The dmg bonus just became useless..
I would say, characters that benefits fully from her as of now (besides DOT) are Xueyi and Sushang..
Just cuz xueyi would get more stack for her FUA, and more stack for entanglement.. And the delay works well for her if you do Superbreak Xueyi..
And sushang really loves the delay because she gain extra dmg against weakness broken enemies, and she benefits from breaking the enemies faster..
1 doesn't necessarily matter Robin is a super good universal support for example, especially for dot and she uses crit which is hard for dot to use, 2 firefly
My take on the matter is that saying she was meant for DOT and thus isn't a dedicated Break support is a bit of a stretch. It's pretty clear Hoyo knows the general future meta they're gonna create, and thus put all the buffs in Ruan Mei's kit that can work with both Break and DOT, because both have similar requirements (not critting, needing to go fast, benefit from Breaking).
Also I do realise all of her buffs benefit DOT whereas the 68% dmg bonus does nothing for Break, but that's the only thing.
Heck how does DOT realistically use the 20% Break effect, or the WEakness Break Effif any one of the DOT units are off element. In such cases you usually end up killing the enemy before they break, especially as the DOT procs themselves don't decrease toughness. Robin is sometimes better for DOT in off element.
I could even make the argument she is better for follow up teams because they use most of the buffs as well. She is just generic as hell.
Most importantly, other than the Dmg bonus, she is quite literally perfect for Break teams. Break effeciency, Speed and Break extension. In superbreak, the extension itself is like a 25 % dmg increase and the Weak Brk Eff is a direct 50%. I could argue the Dmg bonus helps her enable hybrid build. For example I used Superbreak Dan IL(HMC, Ruan, Gallagher last Moc) and he cleared faster than his hypercarry team with 5 star supports. He was built normally with crit and all, the break effect was supplied with HMC and Ruan Mei.
Overall my argument is that most of her buff her bit toooo synergistic with Break, a 'dedicated support' would have to literally close to copy her kit, and remove the DMG bonus and instead give more Break Efficiency, Break effect or give Superbreak.
It’s incompetence actually.
The problem is they believe(d?) breaking toughness bar, BE%, and so on are useful to dot units when it isn’t. It’s obviously part of the DOT identity based on the break SU buffs.
I think she is designed to be all around support not because Im a fence sitter but her kit is just good on almost any team but will not be the best. She is our first limited harmony character. DoT right now dont really benefit from element damage boost. She is just a generic support for our generic crit dps. If we get more specific support, she is either replaced for that team (like follow up) or became second support for no sustain team. She will never be the best support in the future. But right now she is coincidentally a break support because of her break boost nad break efficiency. If she a dedicated break team her basic atk will be made to have a lot of toughness damage.
so I get what you are saying but on some level it is really hard to get inside the head of the company. the DOT support is kafka you could argue she is the "DPS" but the dot comp is a pure support comp. mei's buffs do line up well but pela's debuffs line up well for jingliu and just because there is basically nobody else that can take advantage of her ice res decrease doesn't not make her best comp an acheron comp. same thing here FF is so broken even when the break support will inevitably release, mei's best team comp will be an unoptimal break comp.
Just because she can enhance weakness break efficiency doesn't mean she's dedicated for that
fair argument, the dmg bonus is indeend useless for Super Break dmg team. but dmg Pen, Break Effect Buff , weakness efficiency, Delay Break. and that didnt counting if your Ruan mei also wear 4 set watch maker or the next Plannar set that give atk. so i belive they will make A NICHE SPECALIZE SUPR BREAK HARMONY, with every single pasive that buff thowards that super break but when you count it, wi till perform 10-20% better than Ruan mei. lol also that delay break is handy tho, that able to make my HMC or gallagher catch up sp, and its still in break weakness stat to the boot. Free SP and dmg is good.
Well its kinda obvious that Ruan Mei isnt a break support,she was release like half a year b4 Boothill(the first premium Break DPS) so she being a DoT support is sommewhat convincing. And while the "all purpose support" argument is somewhat dumb bc Hoyo wouldnt release someone that prevent future money, the things Ruan Mei provides for DoTs are things that pretty much every archetype wants, weakness break efficiency is just more eventual dmg,dmg boost is dmg boost,speed is free and break effect just to make the break efficiency have more to it.
The reason why Ruan Mei is "the break support" cuz she is still the only unit that provides break efficiency in the game(the only stat that really matters to break comp tbh)
Action delay, think again silly
I had this idea in my mind but hoped it was not true just because I feel like if they create an actual weakness break support it will likely be Sunday and if Sunday is a Firefly slave I am prolly quitting hsr.
2.7 already proves this
2.7 is gonna replace TP not RM.
Never leave the kitchen king. Based takes.
We’ll see, as of now tingyun is rumored (by an unreliable leaker) to be a break nihility, but i definitely think rm will be replaced in DoT before she’s replaced in Break. Jiaoqiu and Robin perform similarly (same cycle clears) to rm in DoT. But the same cannot be said for break teams, where rm is damn near irreplaceable. And yes, there can be a harmony/nihility (i think thats most likely a nihility) that has a DoT, much like how ruan mei does break damage even when she doesn’t break the target. If these characters that aren’t made to support dot are clearing just as fast ruan mei that tells us that DoT can get a better support than ruan mei.
That actually reminds me hyper. Check your dms
11:50 don't forget feixiao BIS team is literally in one patch so if you want to use feixiao you gotta spend for wait 9 years for the next rerun
she's a DOT support but does everything in the game and she does it well, save for action advance, so just call her an omni-support and call it a day
It's just a statement on how harmony units are overtuned and end up being way more universal then they were perhaps intended to be
Aren't the supports always released AFTER the main dps? Why would they release Ruan Mei so much ahead of the actual break dps?
Yeah she’s absolutely not a dedicated break support but she’s more of a Jack of all trades support. She is currently the best for break teams but if they make a unit that combines super break and Ruan Mei’s break supporting abilities then Ruan Mei won’t be used as much for break teams. I do think that the Ruan Mei ult’a delay is useful for Firefly teams against bosses though because it you don’t want to waste too many Firefly enhanced attacks on just reducing the toughness bar and you do get an extra turn (or two if there are other enemies there to break for the E2 to activate) to do a lot of damage.
Ruan mei to break is like robin is to DoT
You don't have to be Sherlock to conclude that the unit will get power crept. I think they will start to replace units in BE team from imc and finish on dpses. I can't imagine play ff without rm delay. Also, it is more likely they will replace rm in boothill team than in ff team, due to how bh work. He has his own delay on ult, he doesn't need superbreak to be good. I think you have the point, and I agreed with some of your takes. I think ff will end up being an imc and rm slave, and bh will just get new supports but at the end ff and boothill will be powercrept with new be dps who will make around this new be sustains and supports, just like ff was made and balance around imc and ruan mei. Maybe rm was a dot support in the first place, but sad reality ff was balanced around already existed support.
It is true that DMG from Overtone does not help with breaking. But it is the only one buff that doesn't buff break. And it is here for a reason!!!
The same reason why boothill has trace that gives him crit stats - you do not always break enemies. So you really do need such side buffs to able to kill at least smaller enemies even if they are not weak to your type
Oh no… I can hear the 1000 word hate essays being written already…
"all gacha content is going to be consumed from a second monitor"
joke's on you i -listened to- watched this one from my THIRD monitor 😎
I may be wrong but i think RM works better in a SB team that doesn't use a "pure break dps" (firefly) but rather a crit/hybrid based dps (himeko/sushang hybrid, xueyi), because the dmg% buff would still be useful for the crits (not as much for xueyi since she already drowns in dmg% anyways but u get my point) which is kinda sad considering superbreak himeko was supposed to be a budget firefly but she turns out to have a better synergy with ruan mei's entire kit rather than firefly
people arguing against prob are just too close minded imo , ruan mei is almost perfect for dot. you also forgot to mention the weakness delay: advances the enemy by 50% after skipping their turn(same as freeze iirc), which implies they proc the DOT once AGAIN super fast. the backloaded dmg typing dot proccing again is such a perfect synergy.
True man like 3 of her base buffs synergies with DoT...while 5/6 of her base buffs synergies with break teams as well as every other archetype in the fucking game. Whats so hard to understand about the fact she's a general support and a damn good one at that? She synergies with literally everybody, the flower debuffs interaction with DoT isn't special.
Yeah, every part of Ruan Mei's kit is synergistic with DoT. What really sucks, though, is that despite Robin being a more specialized FuA support, she still provides stronger damage buffs than Ruan Mei on DoT teams. The one advantage Mei has on DoT teams (and teams in general tbh) over Robin is her Ult flowers allowing you to run sustainless comps much more easily, especially as last Fire weak MoC demonstrated with the Gui + Jiaoqiu pairing.
It was so awesome hearing this. I hadn't thought of this before.
@@jacoblee4709I think that's because robin is overtuned and the game wasn't ready for a specialized support to have full team advance plus massive team wide atk buff imo. In the future this won't be that necessary as we get more harmony and other supports that are in line with her utility
Yeah Robin is pretty overtuned lol
They could release a dedicated break support and I would still run Ruan Mei
ruan mei is both break and dot silly
but shes a bit more ass on dot so shes break
Great insight, couldn't agree more
Ruan mei is just a support there happen to have the additions that break is looking for she very much was meant for DOT like you say ots especially true when you look at when she came out
Good vid Solo
It's called future knowledge silly, these aren't indie devs
HE COOKED LIKE ALWAYS!
LISTEN... don't call me out like that lol. I'm *literally* watching this on my 3rd monitor, which is a old ass dell monitor, while I'm doing some other stuff lmfao.
Great video, fascinating idea and discussion. We need more of these! Have you thought of that we're getting strong DPS that don't require energy to ult or function? I think they may continue this. I see that as a way HoYo is trying to keep these strong DPS in their niche while also phasing out characters like tingyun and any future battery characters from interacting with these characters or benefiting them.
The other day I was thinking about how Tingyun used to be universal, but now days her use case is limited to DHIL.
Realistically, there aren’t to many scenarios where I see a new energy heavy character coming out now that mechanics are fleshed out and roles are being filled.
Sadly that also means Tingyun fell off, but what can you do.
Unfortunately, we already have a break harmony. Their name is trailblazer, the premium break team support will be a nihility I’m calling it now. Might cause enemies to recover from breaks but act like that one weighted curio where they only recover half or a third of their toughness bar, and inflict vuln/def shred. Likely would be a physical/imaginary nihility to work with boothill rappa, and img tb.
5* Tingyun will powercreep all harmony units including Ruan Mai. Who knows when she'll be out though.
18 seconds in and I'm catching strays
Yeah you right ruai mei meant be dot but some how she work with super break team by simply by chance can’t wait ruai mei to be power creep 👍
It wasn’t by chance hoyo intentionally made Ruan mei more universal as the first harmony 5 star. Nobody wants to roll on a niche 5 star that only works for 1 team comp
(Leaks) Kind of off-topic, but since Rappa and possibly Acheron by rumors it could be possible that if leaks are correct about Sunday in 2.7 he might be an harmony debuffer or harmony especialized in break. Just an assumpiton based on the possible banners alongside Sunday if he comes, what do you think?
Na as of right now leaks say 5* Tingyun is the break support
I want to point out that he said that ruan mei's delay on the ult does not help the HMC get energie but near the end said that HMC gets a 2 turn ult anyway
So it does not matter
Good vid tho
Also DOT sucks nowadays so who the fuck cares
Uhhh me and all the other dot enjoyers do 😤
you don't need to?
like, i didn't watch the vid tbh but, the ~96% damg bonus...them breakers ain't got any of them (unless ppl are dumb or pretending to be dumb, they'll speak anotherway round)
still, ruanmei performs way too good for being a versatile damg amplifier and we just going take it as a blessing, calling it a day
PS: imagine the game just slowly falls apart as you're getting a second dedicated break sp to pair with MC
the delay on Ruan Mei in a Boothill team isnt usful cuse of super break, its useful because it makes boothill's dmg uptime a lot more consistent, he wants to break and keep them broken and Ruan Mei helps doing that pretty well, thou that dosent make her a dedicated break sup, pretty usles comment just wanted to point this out, sure they didnt made her for break but she just working in one is a bit of an understatement cuse she works a bit too good in a break team, thuo that could be cuse we dont have any other unit who buffs break so we shoukd wait and see what happens in the future
Dude, I once said in a comment section of a video comparing Feixiao with Firefly “Robin is the best Feixiao can ever get, while Ruan Mei is the best Firefly can get for now” and I have to repeat that line 4 times in the reply section for a bunch of “high IQ” players insulting me for slightly down talk their favorite waifu Feixiao (which I didn’t even lol) to understand what I was tryna say
I mean yea, that is trash talking those characters, your hinting Robin is so poorly designed she won't be replaced by a Robin v2 type character but Ruan Mei will, and therefor in the same breath saying feixiao is so weak she won't get a new support replacement while firefly will
@@Yumiaia-26 it’s insane how you get that idea from me, you clearly don’t even understand what I was saying? Is this how those poor people took it from me? This is why they’re mad, jeez… imagine being you guys, must be hell
@DegenerateDuck it's just what your saying, your saying 1 character cab be replaced while another can't which implies something being wrong with the one that can't be replaced in this case, in some cases it could mean there that the one that can't be replaced is more special but with the context of this situation that's not really possible
you may actually be right considering *leaks don't read the bottom if ya dont wanna see those*
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The new form of tingyun looks like they are going to be a specific break support
Hmc