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Hi Andrew and Kristie. I may be incorrect, but to assume a product line will not allocate test equipment fearing or previously having a negative review of their product, would I be incorrect?
I will Listen to a reviewer like yourself Before I go out and Buy something, same goes for PC stuff. I have reviewers like yourself That I Highly Respect and TRUST what you say because you have nothing to gain by it, AKA Not getting paid to BS the Public, and the channels that I did trust when I don't get an Answer to my Question they get deleted from my Channels. Makes No Sense to give your email and when someone uses it, you don't Answer. Just recently had this experience with an Amp, question. And That person got my Question because they were reviewing it.
Thanks for the follow-up review on this. I had similar experience with trying to drive some Polk RTA 15 TLs with a Yamaha AVR some time ago. It just didn't work. I needed to go to a class. A b though still sticking with the Yamaha brand and then they came alive. That being said, I do have a question- was there no unplugged for the primare review?
I love AMT tweeter speakers. I have the GoldenEar BRX, 90db sensitivity NAD C298 amp Parasound 2125v2 amp Parasound 2100 preamp Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 dac Denafrips Iris 12th ddc Cardas Parsec RCA cable Eversolo DMP-A6 + LPS upgrade iFi Supanova power cable with active noise cancelling soure=Apple Music lossless
This discussion demonstrates ALL of the best elements of your channel. Informative, fair, encouraging, direct, no nonsense. Thanks for this episode. I think it is the best in months.
I enjoyed today's episode for the honest, yet diplomatic, summation and conclusion expressed by Kristi and Andrew. And Andrew did an excellent job describing a cost-effective way to drive these Emotiva speakers. I'm happy to learn new things and how to be polite when pointing out inefficiencies because I grew up in the '70s and I have no trouble saying what I mean and meaning what I say . Thank you once again for making my Friday afternoon more enjoyable.
Example of sonic change with my Reference two-way speakers: Going from an 8 ohm 25 wpc A/B Amp, to a 4 ohm 100 wpc class D Amp, the quality of bass and mid-range was definitely improved. Base went deeper to 30 Htz, mid-range was clearer and no longer smeared by base. The volume I kept the same as before (88 DB peaks). So while I do not use louder volume with more power, the increased power made the Reference speakers sound like different, much better speakers. Even at low volume, the deep bass is there. You feel it. Not so with the previous 25 wpc Amp. Good smaller speakers will usually need more power to go deep. But the soundstage with some standmounts is incredible. Thank you for the video.
I purchased marantz cinema 70s silver and I am matching it to exp 7 ch. To drive sonus faber lumina v amator. Hope all this works. Haven't built a system in decades, tons of info plus the technology these days, crazy. Old marantz guy trying to hang to the past while jumping into the new. With Kristi and your help I am embracing the new. Keep up the great work and wish me luck. PS no sound bars for me thanks!
Glad you mentioned the Revel speakers. The best kept secret Out there. At my local hi end shop in Las Vegas I heard the Revel Performa f 206 speakers with the Luxman l 509 ux11 It was jaw dropping .They retail for about 4 grand. I just picked up a pair of Revel Concerta f 12 speakers used their entry level I cannot stop Listening to them and sold my Wharfedale lintons.
🙋♂️HI ,ANDREW,KRISTI,THANKS FOR THIS REVIEW FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE INTERESTED,🤗…IMHHO I AGREE WITH KRISTI LISTENING 👂 FIRST AND TRUSTING YOUR EARS,MORE THAN THE MEASUREMENTS 💚💚💚
Can you do a video or explain how a speaker can reproduce multiple sounds at the same time? For example, how can a speaker simultaneously reproduce dialogue, background music, and other sounds all at the same time.
My attempt at a simple explanation: You only have one eardrum in each ear - so they're only vibrating with the _combined_ waveform of all the sounds, just like the single waveform the speaker puts out. Your brain is doing a staggering amount of its own work to try to separate that back out into distinct sounds. That's really where the magic happens. The goal of the speaker is to get that waveform to your ears in the most accurate way so your brain has the best chance to do that job.
@@postjm9 That's interesting, thanks for sharing. Still not sure on how an eardrum or speaker can move at multiple different hertz at the same time. Seems physically impossible but clearly it must not be.
Emotive has been super successful in the low to medium (Depending on your perspective) market. When you have a lot of hits there is the danger in thinking that you have the golden touch and perhaps you don't do the internal questioning that can result in a better product or uncovers latent flaws. Sometimes this is arrogance, complacency or you just get sloppy. I trust they are going to take a hard look at not only the product but their process and do a course correction. Failing occasionally is not a bad thing. It keeps you sharp and committed to doing better if you are the right kind of person.
Wow, this is a big problem for Emotiva. It's interesting because they make great amps and pre-amps, and have good brand recognition. However, a brand represents more than a name and logo. A brand also represents the experience the user has with all aspects of product and customer service. I hope they can turn this around.
This actually kind of reminds me of when the shop I worked for took on the new NHT line. The Model 1 sounded absolutely amazing, but it's low(er) sensitivity made them a bit power hungry. We would try to explain that they were not going to get the same sound out of the inexpensive Pioneer receiver as they were hearing in the store connected to an Adcom GFA-545 or GFA-555. I'm sure a lot of people are going to have a similar issue with the Airmotivs.
21:01 is the kind of information all beginners need to know. With inefficient speakers you need a lot lot more power. Of course how you define loudspeaker inefficiency is a bit of a minefield given existence of impedance issues.
These speakers seem to be a perfect thing to segway into reviewing some of the cost effective hand build Hypex and Purifi class D amps from places like Buckeye Amps. 425 watts @ 4 ohm S/N: 131dB THD: 0.00017 for $1075 seems like a winner for these!
Having access power is like walking when you can run. We can all run but we don’t run everywhere because that’s our limit, so we walk but have running in reserve for when we need it. Amps are the same, if you have heaps of power, then most of the time they’re only walking and when they need to they can run. If they’re always at maximum power draw like they’re running, thats were things wear out faster and increases risk of failure, just like us. Same as towing a trailer, you don’t get a car that’s maximum tow rate is the same as your trailer, you get a car that can tow more so it’s not constantly under load or pressure, reducing wear and tear and having ability in reserve.
We are doing a disservice not being absolutely clear that Emotive XPA-DR3 Differential Reference is the best 3 x channel front L-C-R multichannel amplifier in the business. B&W 7 series towers or bookshelf and center. Not talking about just the vanilla XPA talking about the Differential Reference series. You need a Parasound @ 3 x the cost to get anywhere near the power and linearity of the Emotiva Differential Reference series.
XT3s were my favorites at Montreal AudioFest 2024. We went around the show at other vendors and came back just to listen to them again for a longer. We really enjoyed them with their setup. We even tried lower volume, as we know that can be a factor, and they seemed fine.
Different strokes for different folks. I'm very happy that you found the Emotiva speakers enjoyable, and if you ultimately purchased them, I hope they will provide you with years of sonic happiness.
Loved this. Thank you Andrew for this open, honest review. These were speakers I was thinking of getting. Your review has given me room to pause and rethink my potential purchase. my set up includes Marantz cinema 50 and BasX A3 amp (to power the LCR channels). What speakers would you pair with these?
Appreciate what you guys experienced here. If I have it right you need a higher power and current capable receiver/amplifier. Fair enough. Many affordable receivers just can’t offer up the current provided when pushed hard. Especially the more channels one is using. I just wish all manufacturers would list rated power that the industry could agree on. Best way to inform potential customers. I have never had a problem with my vintage Nad or Adcom. Most recently Hegel. Thanks for your take.
This was an outstanding discussion. You finally explained to me the relationship between distance and wats to spaker db ratings. The light wen on. Now I get it. I've got a question - you said ohm's are also a factor. Could you explains this in the simple terms you explained the distance and wats? That would be really helpful. I don't understand how ohm's figure into the need for inreased power. I'd sure appreciate y'all "edumakatin'" me here. Thanks in advance.
Think of ohms as a regulator. When the ohms dip low the regulator opens up and current rushes in to fill the void. The amplifier needs to be able to supply that current and those that can are said to be “4 ohm capable”.
Had to listen to you like 8 times to digest what you were saying, you approached it from a different angle then where i came from so it was hard to reorient myself. So by having more power available, you can achieve a livelier more energetic sound.
Context: My Klipsches are fed with 20w of glorious class A from a Schiit Aegir. With 95db peaks then never clip or strain, and they sound incredible with whatever music you throw at them. I do find they lack the energy you get with a theatre when watching a movie though.
WOW! Learnt a lot today about the usage of power in an amp. And things make a lot more sense now! :) Always wondered how some tube amps that produced say 15wpc could "ever" be appropriate in all but the tiniest rooms!! As I said make sense now, thanks Andrew!! :)
If you own a multimeter, I highly suggest measuring ac voltage from the speaker terminals to get a feeling how loud 1W really is. Just play a sine wave at 60hz and ramp up volume to 2.8V if you have 8ohm speakers or 1.4volts if 4ohm. I bet you'd be surprised. If you have a good multimeter you can use 1khz tune aswell and it should read right.
Just curious, with the advent of dirac and audyssey and others, where you correct the speakers curve, do you think that having super accurate speakers is a thing anymore? In my setup I eq to the curve I like and use the speakers headroom if any to tweak to my tastes. The speakers characteristics change massively doing this.
EQ is not a magic bullet so to speak, it cannot fix things like poor setup, poor construction etc. In truth, you still want a good/great speaker (whatever that means to you), setup correctly before applying EQ, which should be looked at as icing on the cake rather than a fix-all. Too much EQ can actually harm a speaker's performance and even introduce distortion when none existed originally, so please keep that in mind.
I have two low watt amps in two different systems. I power my HT front channels with a 6 watt amp(low ceilings and efficient speakers), and I use an 8 watt amp to run my desktop set-up. Andrew is right, in some cases you can get by with 10 watts or less but power requirements go up quick as space grows and efficiency go down.
Really looking forward to checking this out after work. I will say my Emotiva t3s didnt really sing till i paired em with the xpa dr2. But that was the old gen…
Ok cold beer in hand. Ready to rock with this follow up. I love my Emotiva gear. But when they announced this new line, i had just bought the last gen and feared fomo. Sounds like i didnt miss out
I bought the Emotiva C1+ and B2+ speakers at their inventory close-out price and also their BasX A3 amp for the front stage in my HT and I'm quite happy with my set-up.
I have been considering a pair of xt3's - and this review saddens me. I will be forced to consider something else as towers for my office/music room and would prefer a full range system without sub for simplicity sake. What do you recommend for a system that has to perform well at conversation level but also will rock out with no hint of strain?
R700 all day. I bought the XT3’s and am currently returning them. Didn’t have an issue driving them with my Emotiva TA2, but man were the highs really harsh in most music. They’re great as a pure home theater left and right channel, but were very disappointing for music.
When i initially got the last gen T3s, my amp was an old Harmon Kardon Citation 16. 200 or so watts into 4ohms. Stereo setup only. It was adequate, but still didnt quite cut the mustard. I did eventually pair them with their xpa differential reference 2 channnel amp. Those speakers came to life. But they should really note how much power they really require. They say at least 100 watts per channel. But thats absurd. They need waaayyy more.
Before i bought the last gen T3’s i did reach out to emotiva customer support. They did express how power hungry they are, and obviously suggested their own high power amps as a pairing. Is it nefarious or misleading? Some may cry foul.. im happy i went with this brand, but yeah. They really need some juice. Though they now have dedicated receivers, they sell separates. Thats what they are angling for you to bite on. If you wanna go high sensitivity for a home theater setup, go klipsch or something.
Hey Guys🎉, now that you’ve covered the new Emotiva line (and helped me realize these aren’t for me!) I really hope you can test the new ELAC 3.0 series for HT next!! Please 🎊 🎉
I had to go from the DR2 to the Purifi 1ET400a. Because the Emotiva would shut off at -15db. I’m using the T2 from TYLER ACOUSTIC. I have the RMC1L and the xpa 11ch. Emo just says that I need more power. But the dr2 just doesn’t work for 4ohm load.
I wonder if someone has just put large printouts of speaker graph measurements on the wall in place of actual speakers in the room and taken a picture. Post modern speakers! Cheers
I was at the Montreal Audiofest show that Matt mentioned and had the same impression as him. I listened to them twice: quick 2 minutes at the start or my tour and then sat in front of them for 15mins at the end of the day. That said, a very important point to know is that the room was big, with high ceiling and twice (or more) long than wide, all that on the conference floor of the hotel and not in smaller rooms like you might expect. Could it be that they perform well in huge rooms? Granted this wouldn't matters for most customers unless you want an hifi barn.
Our room, for the record, is just under 500 sq ft with an opening to the rest of the house, so it's actually "bigger" than that. Not everyone is going to agree on what sounds good or best, suffice to say, I personally, do not recommend these loudspeakers regardless of room size.
Over the last couple years I've had some products from Arcam that use their Class G technology..SA30 & then a PA240. Very impressive amplification in my opinion. If Onkyo can replicate that or improve upon it I think it will be a winner of a product. I am interested to see a review on this Onkyo.
Thanks for the follow-up review on this. I had similar experience with trying to drive some Polk RTA 15 TLs with a Yamaha AVR some time ago. It just didn't work. I needed to go to a class. A b though still sticking with the Yamaha brand and then they came alive. That being said, I do have a question- was there no unplugged for the primare review?
Ive always read Magnapans need a robust amp to get the best out of them, and that endeaver can cost a bit more than what might be available at its pricepoint. And, of course, the real expense with turntables is likely its cartridge, and tube amps its tubes. Personally, ive always suspected av receivers are evil😊
Maybe they just need to do a better job of communicating to the customer that the bookshelf’s are better suited for AVR’s and if you want towers you should get separates
I encouraged my contact at Emotiva to create a "system's page" whereby customers could buy all-inclusive speaker/amp/processor packages guaranteed to work and knock their socks off.
FWIW… I drive my Cornwall iv’s with PS Audio M1200 monoblocks 😵 They can shake THE NEIGHBORS windows if I ask them to ! Endless power and dynamics. Just don’t go crazy with the volume control.
I love AMT tweeter speakers. I have the GoldenEar BRX, 90db sensitivity NAD C298 amp Parasound 2125v2 amp Parasound 2100 preamp Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 dac Denafrips Iris 12th ddc Cardas Parsec RCA cable Eversolo DMP-A6 + LPS upgrade iFi Supanova power cable with active noise cancelling soure=Apple Music lossless
What if the savings on Emotivas speakers is purely in the fit and finish. Are the components high quality? I guess this is more of a question! 😄 It seems that higher end capacitors, inducters, drivers ARE much harder to drive. No? If this is true, the savings on the speakers allows one to buy higher end components to drive the speakers, resulting in a far better sound with still a considerable saving’s overall. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
I think a sensitivity rating alone is not enough to go on. I have b&w 603s3 which are rated at 90db. My marantz at 75w stereo70s can drive them but they sound anemic. Ironically i purchased an emotiva xpa dr2 and now they sound wonderful. I think you need to take into account sensitive AND resistance. If the speaker dips to 4 ohms then it doesn’t behave like a 90db speaker. Just my 2 cents based on my experience
An issue consumers may be experiencing isn't necessarily the absence of human testers giving feedback to engineers during a product's development, so much as an over-reliance on technical measurements taken at set frequencies, which often do not accurately reflect the dynamic nature of music. Low sensitivity speakers with low impedance is Magnepan's design mantra, but the need for powerful amplifiers when pairing them is a given. I think the issue with the Emotiva speakers is a deceptive sensitivity that simply doesn't convey the power required to drive them efficiently. The only way to confirm that would be to perform certain tests, alternating between 1 Khz test tones and 40 Hz tones. But before all of that, were the speakers ever broken in? 200 hours of pink noise and intermittent sine sweeps should suffice.
I'm not sure what emotivas marketing strategy is here, but with the way the economy is, people cannot afford to put money into a new receiver / amplifier. With emotiva rying to be bold in their marketing schemes, at this particular point, its only going to hurt emotiva in the long run.
I haven't listened to many new speakers because I have been designing and building my own. I spend a lot of time just planning and testing. It's a long process. I'm building my own speaker so I using more expensive crossover components, high grade wire, silver solder etc. The cabinets are multi layer MDF, flooring adhesive that I trowel on and acts as a damping material and adhere solid maple and oak on top. They are very heavy and don't vibrate. I glue thick pad inside the cabinets. How much would a company have to charge for a speaker built to this level. The funny thing is I try to sell them for nothing just so I can build more. People will spend thousands on a piece of crap. I can't get $200 with a speaker with a $200 crossover. That's why I have to many speakers
What about damping factor? My understanding is that the vast majority of the power an amp outputs is used to drive *and control* the woofer(s). High-powered amps, in general - according to my theory which is mine - are generally able to control the woofers better than lower-powered amps, which translates into cleaner, more taut bass. Is this not another reason to prefer high-powered amps?
Amplifier POWER is completely unrelated to price. This is about being informed of the options and choosing accordingly. If you ignore the absurd hi-fi/audiophile brand tax, which is absurd, and you choose a quality budget/value oriented product, very high power levels are available for very little money, and with excellent sound quality to boot.
It also comes down to the quality and build of the amplifier. The current output capability between two different amps rated exactly the same wattage will not necessarily be the same. Generally you get what you pay for, not to say there aren't some will priced high spec'd amps out there. But what exact spec aside from wattage tells you exactly how well an amp is going to preform without being able to test it or hear it for yourself?
@@4leggedfurball the current capability IS the watts capability at a given resistance (ohm load). This is math, this is engineering. This is facts. I can agree with you if you man the "watts" rating of an amplifier is insufficient, but only if that number is lacking an associated ohm resistance and other details (frequency, such as @1khz, or 20hs-20khz) and a thd figure. Apart from that missing information, which can be the case with some misleading specs in some product marketing, if the above numbers are present and accurate, that IS the current the amplifier can deliver, by definition. So when buckeye/hypex says it can deliver 380w at 8 ohms, or 700w at 4 ohms, I hope you understand that IS the current capability of the amplifier, at .1% thd or whatever. It is not the case that more expensive amplifiers somehow deliver or are capable of more current, so perhaps you have a misunderstanding if I've interpreted you correctly.
@Artcore103 Nope, your detailed response was over misinterpretion. I mean a well designed and built amp over a cheaper one will have better components and better power supply design that will be more "capable" of running the required output current with more efficiency, less heat and less chance of clipping. Again, not to say there aren't great amps out there that are well priced like you said, but you do generally get what you pay for. Basing an expensive amps power rating over a similarly spec'd cheaper one doesn't remotely do justice as to the amps full capabilities.
@@4leggedfurball "better designed" "efficient", none of those are corrolated with price. All of those factors are taken into account with my example. There is no debate about power, what the amplifier tests and measures at, under specific test conditions, IS the current capability of the amplifier, which naturally includes a required power supply to work and be measured. And nothing is more efficient than modern class d amps. The power supplies that are used with hypex and purifi modules are insanely powerful and capable of massive amounts of current, there is no speculation about current delivery or power with such amps vs something pointlessly expensive that you assume is better. Power supplies also don't make an amp more powerful than what the rest of the amp, the driver chip the mosfets and what have you, is capable of, what matters is that it is capable of feeding enough current to match the amps capability when it's at full load. Giant expensive linear power supplies aren't needed or superior to an smps. Go look at actual testing and data for a hypex ncx500, that thing is a monster. Whatever expensive amp you're thinking of cannot put out as much power (aka current) as that, for around a grand. Or the nc500 or nc502mp for even less. 700 watts at 4 ohms per channel, 500 per channel, or purifi at 450w per channel... At 4 ohms and 1% thd.
At ruclips.net/video/YvSsqgCkqpU/видео.html -- Do you think the BasX line Emotive offers could drive these? Like, say, the A2? That's a pretty inexpensive amp for the claimed 250x2 at 4ohms.
@@robertwright3302 honestly, I don’t see the criticism as hate. This happens a lot in product development where a company has a target market, develops a product for that market, but misses on a key aspect that runs counter to that market. Developing a “budget friendly” speaker that dips into 2 ohm territory is a miss, because few AVR’s can handle impedance dips that low, and certainly not any AVRs that would be budget friendly. I think that’s a fair criticism to level here. Now how someone likes the sound of these is going to be very personal, dependent on their own room, possible eq, type of listening they do, etc. If you like how they sound, and have ample power, that’s really all that matters at the end of the day.
Why do you need so much power to run a good set of speakers, 99% of people like myself love listening to music but dont need 10,000 to do it. Ill take my yamaha 2080 and my klh kandalls and get great great results at great volume. Your just not reaching out to the masses with speakers that need massive power to run them.... plus you need the space for the equipment. Just my opinion
Here’s my small thoughts on the consumers being testers: I hate that. I personally believe that this is a very poor and dishonest thing to do by the manufacturers. I’ll bring a different industry as an example: the car industry. Mazda released a lovely (from what it seemed) vehicle, the CX-90. But just after a year on the market, that single model vehicle has over 50 different recalls stacked up. 50 recalls in one year! How was it tested?! You’re paying 40K+ for it, high end trims being 60K+. That to me is absolutely unacceptable. And I believe the same for the audio and hifi world. If I’m paying you money, it doesn’t matter if it’s $1, or $10000, I’m buying a product and it should be expected for it to be fully ready to go and free of bugs, flaws (as in manufacturing) and ready to perform as intended. I’m surprised the hifi companies don’t do contract based hiring for testers. That’s a completely normal thing for gaming industry for example, where the company posts a limited time based contract to test the new game. For like 2-4 weeks. After that, your job is done, the company fixes what bugs and stuff they can, and it goes “gold”. Why not offer a contract based position (NDA and all of course, as expected), for regular consumers to test new products for a limited period of time, like 3-4 weeks, then claim the products back, gather all the feedback, adjust the design/concerns, and then release it? It saves them money in terms of having testing done on a constant basis, so they wouldn’t a huge staff to do the testing, and will have a real world usage feedback. Just a thought. Thank you for a lovely conversation! Love the Unplugged episodes!
Third-party testing requires time and money, which are becoming more precious than oxygen in today's world. Businesses are having difficulty surviving with product cycles that used to last years. You must have something "new" every 10-18 months; otherwise, you risk being forgotten in the noise. Fast-fashion business models have permeated every aspect of the retail world (hifi included). As a result, I fear testing and outside opinions are often the first cut to save on development costs. It's a real problem, but so long as costs go down, like Kristi says in this video, I don't think consumers mind because, at the end of the day, they're saving money (at least it looks like they're saving).
@@andrewrobinsonreviewsvery interesting thoughts. I was thinking at least for speakers it would be helpful, since they release updates to the lines slower compared to other industries. But I totally understand your point and it makes total sense.
This is the result of poor engineering. I would like to see both the impedance that those 3 woofers are running, as well as phase impedance, and I suspect that it behaves poorly. It would been seen in simple and cheap measurements, and it wouldn’t be that expensive to have measurements close to anechoic (look at how Audioholics measures speakers), even if a Klipplel measurement would show the whole picture. The R Meta lineup measurements show that both the on and off-axis measurements are great (following the Harman studies). 😉 While the Martin Logan’s might look similar in design, they actually have a huge difference in the tweeter, which is a bigger (an probably well designed) wave guide, which helps a lot with horizontal and vertical dispersion. There’s a reason why some loudspeaker manufacturers have more than half a century in existence, and others don’t. 😉
Yes the asymmetry in 2024 is a bit novice when other companies are aligning drivers coaxially and in phase(? Whatever the SVS are doing) There is no way the center provides and even sound to those listening with that arrangement sideways. The center would be best stood up on its side but doesnt look like it was designed for that either
Thanks to both of you. I have a pair of xpa-1 that have been feeding my MartinLogan Theos (with two subs) since 8 years and I was expecting the new Emotiva with great anticipation. At the Montreal Audio Show, the XT3 were the ones on demonstration and yes they rocked, but for quiet listening of cello or string quartet they would be a bit too much. Good week-end to you.
I love your channel. I go to sleep, wake up and rewind the videos. Kristi’s voice is so soothing. Sorry Andrew, you’re ok too 😂 - No annoying music in the background (urghhh why do people do that) anyway. Thanks 🙏🏾
Love your unplug series! Need point out something though, you said that this is an example where the measurements do not reflect what you heard and pointed out how linear and flat the FR of this speaker is. You suggested that the measurements cannot tell the whole picture but this is not accurate in my opionion. You are just looking at one set of measurements namely the FR and yes this is not enough to describe a speaker it is obvious, this is why we look at a lot more measurements. By definition what we hear at our subjective listening is measurable because everything abides to the rules of physics and psycoacoustics, you just need to know where to look. once you produce and look at all the relevant measurements for various attributes of each speaker, the correlation between what you heard and what you measure will be there. Its science
From the little knowledge I have in speaker design and components, what I understand is, the cheaper the internals on the speaker compared to the drivers themselves, the harder it becomes to drive as a package. They had to save money somewhere to meet a certain price point, and either they got really crappy drivers (they didn’t) and got good internals, or they did the opposite. And it seems like they did the latter. Unfortunately, the went with this specific way to design it; instead of trying to balance it between the speaker drivers and the internal components. Which to me is a bit of miss in this one. There are plenty of speakers out there that do an incredible job of finding balance between the two, Klipsch RP line, Polk R series, even Martin Logan newest line of budget motion speakers. I think the reason those are so good, is because they’re balanced in their design and the entry cost to actually make them sound well, is far lower compared to Emotiva. Sure, they make really good amps with damn good power, but at that point, you could get slightly lower powered amp with far better speakers? Either way, I think this speaker line needed more work and time in the oven, but that’s my personal opinion. I’ll post an extra comment about the consumers being the testers as well, as that hits my itch quite a bit. Hope everyone has a lovely Friday!
Thank you for your reviews. Your review of the T2 (which I was going to get) made me realize I didn't have the power to run them so I decided on getting the Martin Logan Foundation F2's and a B2 as a center. Your review of those speakers helped me make that decision. I have had them a week now and love them. They are detailed, dynamic and punchy. A great beautiful speaker.
Great show and thank you for taking my question. Regarding today's main topic of power and its perception related to watts being the driving force. Can you maybe discuss the relationship of amplifiers that promote (use to at least) high current more so than its wattage e.g. Adcom, Krell, Parasound to name a few. When I had Martin Logan's electrostats the Krell's and Adcom's drove them with little effort and with not more than 150 watts. Thanks for all you guys do ✊🏼
I have the Emotiva T1+ with the A2 amp. They are great until you turn them way up. Clean, yes. Powerful, yes. The AMT tweeter at low to around 85db is lovely. I use some Q 3050's that are great on the same amp. Less fatigue at high volumes. As usual, preferences are paramount. I'll be picking up the ML XT100's on your recommendation and retiring the T1+. Thanks for taking the time to review!
May be wrong but It's more from the point of an affordable speaker set needs expensive amplification to get the best out of them which doesn't really make commercial sense from the fact those who will most likely buy them then don't have the coin to go out and buy new amplification because their AVR's can't do the job adequately. As I said I could be wrong just my thoughts, cheers.
@@malsmith2012 or you started with a nice Amp and there is no problem, or your happy with a 2.1 or 2.2 system and don't need an super Expensive AVR to run it. I am pretty sure my Yamaha R-N800A can drive them easy with the 2.1 it was intended for. But when you get into AVR and home theater it pays to do research......... 4 ohm speakers are 4 ohm speakers and like alot to get them rocking. Once again kinda common knowledge if you want to go down that road of entertainment. Just my Opinion. I don't make alot of money. So before I purchase any audio equipment I do my research. Besides I take what Mr. Robinson says with a kilo of salt and not a pinch. Just beware. Salesmen are abound.
Sounds like these are really made for big home theatre’s with a lot of distance between the listeners and the speakers. It appears these are not your daily do it all listening speakers, these are for those dedicated theaters where you’re turning these up.
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Hi Andrew and Kristie.
I may be incorrect, but to assume a product line will not allocate test equipment fearing or previously having a negative review of their product, would I be incorrect?
I will Listen to a reviewer like yourself Before I go out and Buy something, same goes for PC stuff. I have reviewers like yourself That I Highly Respect and TRUST what you say because you have nothing to gain by it, AKA Not getting paid to BS the Public, and the channels that I did trust when I don't get an Answer to my Question they get deleted from my Channels. Makes No Sense to give your email and when someone uses it, you don't Answer. Just recently had this experience with an Amp, question. And That person got my Question because they were reviewing it.
Andrew May I contact you to ask this Question, Cheers.
Thanks for the follow-up review on this. I had similar experience with trying to drive some Polk RTA 15 TLs with a Yamaha AVR some time ago. It just didn't work. I needed to go to a class. A b though still sticking with the Yamaha brand and then they came alive. That being said, I do have a question- was there no unplugged for the primare review?
I love AMT tweeter speakers. I have the GoldenEar BRX, 90db sensitivity
NAD C298 amp
Parasound 2125v2 amp
Parasound 2100 preamp
Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 dac
Denafrips Iris 12th ddc
Cardas Parsec RCA cable
Eversolo DMP-A6 + LPS upgrade
iFi Supanova power cable with active noise cancelling
soure=Apple Music lossless
This discussion demonstrates ALL of the best elements of your channel. Informative, fair, encouraging, direct, no nonsense. Thanks for this episode. I think it is the best in months.
We're so glad you enjoyed it!
I enjoyed today's episode for the honest, yet diplomatic, summation and conclusion expressed by Kristi and Andrew. And Andrew did an excellent job describing a cost-effective way to drive these Emotiva speakers. I'm happy to learn new things and how to be polite when pointing out inefficiencies because I grew up in the '70s and I have no trouble saying what I mean and meaning what I say . Thank you once again for making my Friday afternoon more enjoyable.
Example of sonic change with my Reference two-way speakers: Going from an 8 ohm 25 wpc A/B Amp, to a 4 ohm 100 wpc class D Amp, the quality of bass and mid-range was definitely improved. Base went deeper to 30 Htz, mid-range was clearer and no longer smeared by base. The volume I kept the same as before (88 DB peaks). So while I do not use louder volume with more power, the increased power made the Reference speakers sound like different, much better speakers. Even at low volume, the deep bass is there. You feel it. Not so with the previous 25 wpc Amp. Good smaller speakers will usually need more power to go deep. But the soundstage with some standmounts is incredible. Thank you for the video.
I purchased marantz cinema 70s silver and I am matching it to exp 7 ch. To drive sonus faber lumina v amator. Hope all this works. Haven't built a system in decades, tons of info plus the technology these days, crazy. Old marantz guy trying to hang to the past while jumping into the new. With Kristi and your help I am embracing the new. Keep up the great work and wish me luck. PS no sound bars for me thanks!
Glad you mentioned the Revel speakers. The best kept secret
Out there. At my local hi end shop in Las Vegas I heard the
Revel Performa f 206 speakers with the Luxman l 509 ux11
It was jaw dropping .They retail for about 4 grand. I just picked up a pair of Revel Concerta f 12 speakers used their entry level I cannot stop
Listening to them and sold my
Wharfedale lintons.
🙋♂️HI ,ANDREW,KRISTI,THANKS FOR THIS REVIEW FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE INTERESTED,🤗…IMHHO I AGREE WITH KRISTI LISTENING 👂 FIRST AND TRUSTING YOUR EARS,MORE THAN THE MEASUREMENTS 💚💚💚
Can you do a video or explain how a speaker can reproduce multiple sounds at the same time? For example, how can a speaker simultaneously reproduce dialogue, background music, and other sounds all at the same time.
That is an interesting topic; maybe it will find its way to the channel. Thanks for tuning in.
My attempt at a simple explanation:
You only have one eardrum in each ear - so they're only vibrating with the _combined_ waveform of all the sounds, just like the single waveform the speaker puts out.
Your brain is doing a staggering amount of its own work to try to separate that back out into distinct sounds. That's really where the magic happens.
The goal of the speaker is to get that waveform to your ears in the most accurate way so your brain has the best chance to do that job.
@@postjm9 That's interesting, thanks for sharing. Still not sure on how an eardrum or speaker can move at multiple different hertz at the same time. Seems physically impossible but clearly it must not be.
Is a wave in a wave. Is like you can move your arm up and down but Also you can make he same move while shakin your arm
🤔 This is what speakers do.. Right? Are subs and centers confusing you are what are we really talking about here? 😅
Emotive has been super successful in the low to medium (Depending on your perspective) market. When you have a lot of hits there is the danger in thinking that you have the golden touch and perhaps you don't do the internal questioning that can result in a better product or uncovers latent flaws. Sometimes this is arrogance, complacency or you just get sloppy. I trust they are going to take a hard look at not only the product but their process and do a course correction. Failing occasionally is not a bad thing. It keeps you sharp and committed to doing better if you are the right kind of person.
Wow, this is a big problem for Emotiva. It's interesting because they make great amps and pre-amps, and have good brand recognition. However, a brand represents more than a name and logo. A brand also represents the experience the user has with all aspects of product and customer service. I hope they can turn this around.
This actually kind of reminds me of when the shop I worked for took on the new NHT line. The Model 1 sounded absolutely amazing, but it's low(er) sensitivity made them a bit power hungry. We would try to explain that they were not going to get the same sound out of the inexpensive Pioneer receiver as they were hearing in the store connected to an Adcom GFA-545 or GFA-555. I'm sure a lot of people are going to have a similar issue with the Airmotivs.
21:01 is the kind of information all beginners need to know.
With inefficient speakers you need a lot lot more power.
Of course how you define loudspeaker inefficiency is a bit of a minefield given existence of impedance issues.
"Krell-like power." Forbidden Planet?? I love it!
These speakers seem to be a perfect thing to segway into reviewing some of the cost effective hand build Hypex and Purifi class D amps from places like Buckeye Amps. 425 watts @ 4 ohm S/N: 131dB THD: 0.00017 for $1075 seems like a winner for these!
No, those amps are THE winners for ALL speakers! Can't be beat.
Having access power is like walking when you can run. We can all run but we don’t run everywhere because that’s our limit, so we walk but have running in reserve for when we need it. Amps are the same, if you have heaps of power, then most of the time they’re only walking and when they need to they can run. If they’re always at maximum power draw like they’re running, thats were things wear out faster and increases risk of failure, just like us. Same as towing a trailer, you don’t get a car that’s maximum tow rate is the same as your trailer, you get a car that can tow more so it’s not constantly under load or pressure, reducing wear and tear and having ability in reserve.
We are doing a disservice not being absolutely clear that Emotive XPA-DR3 Differential Reference is the best 3 x channel front L-C-R multichannel amplifier in the business. B&W 7 series towers or bookshelf and center. Not talking about just the vanilla XPA talking about the Differential Reference series. You need a Parasound @ 3 x the cost to get anywhere near the power and linearity of the Emotiva Differential Reference series.
Watched the review of these Emotiva speakers twice. Really looking forward to this episode of Unplugged!
🔥
I love my emotiva t2 in a medium size room at low volumes and no amp. I think it sounds fantastic. I can't wait to add an amp.
XT3s were my favorites at Montreal AudioFest 2024. We went around the show at other vendors and came back just to listen to them again for a longer. We really enjoyed them with their setup. We even tried lower volume, as we know that can be a factor, and they seemed fine.
Different strokes for different folks. I'm very happy that you found the Emotiva speakers enjoyable, and if you ultimately purchased them, I hope they will provide you with years of sonic happiness.
Loved this. Thank you Andrew for this open, honest review. These were speakers I was thinking of getting. Your review has given me room to pause and rethink my potential purchase. my set up includes Marantz cinema 50 and BasX A3 amp (to power the LCR channels). What speakers would you pair with these?
Appreciate what you guys experienced here. If I have it right you need a higher power and current capable receiver/amplifier. Fair enough. Many affordable receivers just can’t offer up the current provided when pushed hard. Especially the more channels one is using. I just wish all manufacturers would list rated power that the industry could agree on. Best way to inform potential customers. I have never had a problem with my vintage Nad or Adcom. Most recently Hegel. Thanks for your take.
This was an outstanding discussion. You finally explained to me the relationship between distance and wats to spaker db ratings. The light wen on. Now I get it. I've got a question - you said ohm's are also a factor. Could you explains this in the simple terms you explained the distance and wats? That would be really helpful. I don't understand how ohm's figure into the need for inreased power. I'd sure appreciate y'all "edumakatin'" me here. Thanks in advance.
Think of ohms as a regulator. When the ohms dip low the regulator opens up and current rushes in to fill the void. The amplifier needs to be able to supply that current and those that can are said to be “4 ohm capable”.
Had to listen to you like 8 times to digest what you were saying, you approached it from a different angle then where i came from so it was hard to reorient myself. So by having more power available, you can achieve a livelier more energetic sound.
Context: My Klipsches are fed with 20w of glorious class A from a Schiit Aegir. With 95db peaks then never clip or strain, and they sound incredible with whatever music you throw at them. I do find they lack the energy you get with a theatre when watching a movie though.
Hi guys. Will you be reviewing the new SVS Speakers?
They covered the new Titan floor standing speakers recently.
WOW! Learnt a lot today about the usage of power in an amp. And things make a lot more sense now! :) Always wondered how some tube amps that produced say 15wpc could "ever" be appropriate in all but the tiniest rooms!! As I said make sense now, thanks Andrew!! :)
If you own a multimeter, I highly suggest measuring ac voltage from the speaker terminals to get a feeling how loud 1W really is. Just play a sine wave at 60hz and ramp up volume to 2.8V if you have 8ohm speakers or 1.4volts if 4ohm. I bet you'd be surprised. If you have a good multimeter you can use 1khz tune aswell and it should read right.
Just curious, with the advent of dirac and audyssey and others, where you correct the speakers curve, do you think that having super accurate speakers is a thing anymore?
In my setup I eq to the curve I like and use the speakers headroom if any to tweak to my tastes.
The speakers characteristics change massively doing this.
EQ is not a magic bullet so to speak, it cannot fix things like poor setup, poor construction etc. In truth, you still want a good/great speaker (whatever that means to you), setup correctly before applying EQ, which should be looked at as icing on the cake rather than a fix-all. Too much EQ can actually harm a speaker's performance and even introduce distortion when none existed originally, so please keep that in mind.
Happy Speaker Friday!
Happy Friday to you!
I have two low watt amps in two different systems. I power my HT front channels with a 6 watt amp(low ceilings and efficient speakers), and I use an 8 watt amp to run my desktop set-up. Andrew is right, in some cases you can get by with 10 watts or less but power requirements go up quick as space grows and efficiency go down.
Really looking forward to checking this out after work. I will say my Emotiva t3s didnt really sing till i paired em with the xpa dr2. But that was the old gen…
Thanks for stopping by!
I really enjoy the unplugged episodes, in my opinion you hit a home run with this format. They are a nice follow-up to a product review.
I appreciate your comment. We're loving them!
Ok cold beer in hand. Ready to rock with this follow up. I love my Emotiva gear. But when they announced this new line, i had just bought the last gen and feared fomo. Sounds like i didnt miss out
I bought the Emotiva C1+ and B2+ speakers at their inventory close-out price and also their BasX A3 amp for the front stage in my HT and I'm quite happy with my set-up.
@@hondaphan4172 i have a basx a4 for my atmos channels. Love it
Andrew is Brooks Koepka's doppelganger
I have been considering a pair of xt3's - and this review saddens me. I will be forced to consider something else as towers for my office/music room and would prefer a full range system without sub for simplicity sake. What do you recommend for a system that has to perform well at conversation level but also will rock out with no hint of strain?
R700 all day. I bought the XT3’s and am currently returning them. Didn’t have an issue driving them with my Emotiva TA2, but man were the highs really harsh in most music. They’re great as a pure home theater left and right channel, but were very disappointing for music.
When i initially got the last gen T3s, my amp was an old Harmon Kardon Citation 16. 200 or so watts into 4ohms. Stereo setup only. It was adequate, but still didnt quite cut the mustard. I did eventually pair them with their xpa differential reference 2 channnel amp. Those speakers came to life. But they should really note how much power they really require. They say at least 100 watts per channel. But thats absurd. They need waaayyy more.
“It’s like ‘demo mode’…” 😂
Calling it, totem speakers for Sunday video
Nah, will be Arcam.
Before i bought the last gen T3’s i did reach out to emotiva customer support. They did express how power hungry they are, and obviously suggested their own high power amps as a pairing. Is it nefarious or misleading? Some may cry foul.. im happy i went with this brand, but yeah. They really need some juice. Though they now have dedicated receivers, they sell separates. Thats what they are angling for you to bite on. If you wanna go high sensitivity for a home theater setup, go klipsch or something.
Very fun Unplugged!! Thank you!🥰
Thanks for watching, Leezah. Have a great weekend!
Thanks for all you do for the audio community. Looking forward to your review of Wharfedale’s Super Denton. Please don’t take too long, I’m old! 🥴🎶
Thank you for watching and that review is coming sooner than later.
Hey Guys🎉, now that you’ve covered the new Emotiva line (and helped me realize these aren’t for me!) I really hope you can test the new ELAC 3.0 series for HT next!! Please 🎊 🎉
whoa...i had no idea you were a former employee at Emotiva...i purchased one of their first ert 8.3's that they rolled out...
Those are great speakers, and one of the ones that was brought to market while I worked there, which is why I never reviewed them.
Thank you! One can tell they have been around the sun a lot when one just nods their head at the problems. I have dealt with them all. lol
I had to go from the DR2 to the Purifi 1ET400a. Because the Emotiva would shut off at -15db. I’m using the T2 from TYLER ACOUSTIC. I have the RMC1L and the xpa 11ch. Emo just says that I need more power. But the dr2 just doesn’t work for 4ohm load.
I wonder if someone has just put large printouts of speaker graph measurements on the wall in place of actual speakers in the room and taken a picture. Post modern speakers!
Cheers
I would recommend the Crown XLS 1502, or the Behringer A800 power amplifiers. They are cheap, and they work wonderfully in home audio.
I was at the Montreal Audiofest show that Matt mentioned and had the same impression as him.
I listened to them twice: quick 2 minutes at the start or my tour and then sat in front of them for 15mins at the end of the day.
That said, a very important point to know is that the room was big, with high ceiling and twice (or more) long than wide, all that on the conference floor of the hotel and not in smaller rooms like you might expect.
Could it be that they perform well in huge rooms?
Granted this wouldn't matters for most customers unless you want an hifi barn.
Our room, for the record, is just under 500 sq ft with an opening to the rest of the house, so it's actually "bigger" than that. Not everyone is going to agree on what sounds good or best, suffice to say, I personally, do not recommend these loudspeakers regardless of room size.
Good information! How would a Yamaha NR2000a power these new Emotiva speakers?
You would be ok, killer amp by the way.
Grabs popcorn.
Hey Andrew - Onkyo has a new Class G stereo reciever - not an AVR, but built for true stereo listening. Will you be reviewing it in the future?
I believe it has been requested though no ETA on its arrival.
Over the last couple years I've had some products from Arcam that use their Class G technology..SA30 & then a PA240. Very impressive amplification in my opinion. If Onkyo can replicate that or improve upon it I think it will be a winner of a product. I am interested to see a review on this Onkyo.
Thanks for the follow-up review on this. I had similar experience with trying to drive some Polk RTA 15 TLs with a Yamaha AVR some time ago. It just didn't work. I needed to go to a class. A b though still sticking with the Yamaha brand and then they came alive. That being said, I do have a question- was there no unplugged for the primare review?
Very informative...Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Andrew & Kristi , Is there any chance that you will review the new Wharfedale Aura 3 line speakers ? Thank you.
Ive always read Magnapans need a robust amp to get the best out of them, and that endeaver can cost a bit more than what might be available at its pricepoint. And, of course, the real expense with turntables is likely its cartridge, and tube amps its tubes. Personally, ive always suspected av receivers are evil😊
Maybe they just need to do a better job of communicating to the customer that the bookshelf’s are better suited for AVR’s and if you want towers you should get separates
I encouraged my contact at Emotiva to create a "system's page" whereby customers could buy all-inclusive speaker/amp/processor packages guaranteed to work and knock their socks off.
Has Emotiva provided an impedance curve to see how low and in what frequency range does the speakers drop below 4 ohm.
FWIW… I drive my Cornwall iv’s with PS Audio M1200 monoblocks 😵
They can shake THE NEIGHBORS windows if I ask them to ! Endless power and dynamics. Just don’t go crazy with the volume control.
Thanks guys
I love AMT tweeter speakers. I have the GoldenEar BRX, 90db sensitivity
NAD C298 amp
Parasound 2125v2 amp
Parasound 2100 preamp
Denafrips Pontus II 12th-1 dac
Denafrips Iris 12th ddc
Cardas Parsec RCA cable
Eversolo DMP-A6 + LPS upgrade
iFi Supanova power cable with active noise cancelling
soure=Apple Music lossless
What if the savings on Emotivas speakers is purely in the fit and finish. Are the components high quality? I guess this is more of a question! 😄 It seems that higher end capacitors, inducters, drivers ARE much harder to drive. No? If this is true, the savings on the speakers allows one to buy higher end components to drive the speakers, resulting in a far better sound with still a considerable saving’s overall. 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
I think a sensitivity rating alone is not enough to go on. I have b&w 603s3 which are rated at 90db. My marantz at 75w stereo70s can drive them but they sound anemic. Ironically i purchased an emotiva xpa dr2 and now they sound wonderful. I think you need to take into account sensitive AND resistance. If the speaker dips to 4 ohms then it doesn’t behave like a 90db speaker. Just my 2 cents based on my experience
Impedance (resistance) definitely matters. Speakers like B&W are known to dip or fluctuate so no, you can't just go off of sensitivity.
There was a time when amps were big and powerful and a lot of speakers took a fair amount of power to drive. (maybe it never really went away ?)
Right on!!! Cant wait till Sunday!! But i will
See you then!
I'm late to this one :( excited to watch this !!
Hey!! Glad you could make it.
@@KristiWright had to work some overtime, how was the week?
You need to review
A SLEEPER ON HOME THEATER
BLACK SERIES S SERIES
An issue consumers may be experiencing isn't necessarily the absence of human testers giving feedback to engineers during a product's development, so much as an over-reliance on technical measurements taken at set frequencies, which often do not accurately reflect the dynamic nature of music. Low sensitivity speakers with low impedance is Magnepan's design mantra, but the need for powerful amplifiers when pairing them is a given. I think the issue with the Emotiva speakers is a deceptive sensitivity that simply doesn't convey the power required to drive them efficiently. The only way to confirm that would be to perform certain tests, alternating between 1 Khz test tones and 40 Hz tones. But before all of that, were the speakers ever broken in? 200 hours of pink noise and intermittent sine sweeps should suffice.
Is Emotiva related with Adam Audio?
Not to my knowledge.
how ? Adam is a german company and emotiva US
@@vortekkz_mixes im not an expert but they really look like the passive versions of Adam Audio
I'm not sure what emotivas marketing strategy is here, but with the way the economy is, people cannot afford to put money into a new receiver / amplifier. With emotiva rying to be bold in their marketing schemes, at this particular point, its only going to hurt emotiva in the long run.
I haven't listened to many new speakers because I have been designing and building my own. I spend a lot of time just planning and testing. It's a long process. I'm building my own speaker so I using more expensive crossover components, high grade wire, silver solder etc. The cabinets are multi layer MDF, flooring adhesive that I trowel on and acts as a damping material and adhere solid maple and oak on top. They are very heavy and don't vibrate. I glue thick pad inside the cabinets. How much would a company have to charge for a speaker built to this level. The funny thing is I try to sell them for nothing just so I can build more. People will spend thousands on a piece of crap. I can't get $200 with a speaker with a $200 crossover. That's why I have to many speakers
I love emotiva.
Emotiva got tired of trolling Electrocompaniet and switched to trolling Dynaudio 🤪
Emotiva just need cheap audio man to push their products now. 😂
What about damping factor? My understanding is that the vast majority of the power an amp outputs is used to drive *and control* the woofer(s). High-powered amps, in general - according to my theory which is mine - are generally able to control the woofers better than lower-powered amps, which translates into cleaner, more taut bass. Is this not another reason to prefer high-powered amps?
❤
Amplifier POWER is completely unrelated to price. This is about being informed of the options and choosing accordingly. If you ignore the absurd hi-fi/audiophile brand tax, which is absurd, and you choose a quality budget/value oriented product, very high power levels are available for very little money, and with excellent sound quality to boot.
Thanks for watching!
It also comes down to the quality and build of the amplifier. The current output capability between two different amps rated exactly the same wattage will not necessarily be the same. Generally you get what you pay for, not to say there aren't some will priced high spec'd amps out there. But what exact spec aside from wattage tells you exactly how well an amp is going to preform without being able to test it or hear it for yourself?
@@4leggedfurball the current capability IS the watts capability at a given resistance (ohm load). This is math, this is engineering. This is facts. I can agree with you if you man the "watts" rating of an amplifier is insufficient, but only if that number is lacking an associated ohm resistance and other details (frequency, such as @1khz, or 20hs-20khz) and a thd figure.
Apart from that missing information, which can be the case with some misleading specs in some product marketing, if the above numbers are present and accurate, that IS the current the amplifier can deliver, by definition.
So when buckeye/hypex says it can deliver 380w at 8 ohms, or 700w at 4 ohms, I hope you understand that IS the current capability of the amplifier, at .1% thd or whatever.
It is not the case that more expensive amplifiers somehow deliver or are capable of more current, so perhaps you have a misunderstanding if I've interpreted you correctly.
@Artcore103 Nope, your detailed response was over misinterpretion. I mean a well designed and built amp over a cheaper one will have better components and better power supply design that will be more "capable" of running the required output current with more efficiency, less heat and less chance of clipping. Again, not to say there aren't great amps out there that are well priced like you said, but you do generally get what you pay for. Basing an expensive amps power rating over a similarly spec'd cheaper one doesn't remotely do justice as to the amps full capabilities.
@@4leggedfurball "better designed" "efficient", none of those are corrolated with price. All of those factors are taken into account with my example. There is no debate about power, what the amplifier tests and measures at, under specific test conditions, IS the current capability of the amplifier, which naturally includes a required power supply to work and be measured. And nothing is more efficient than modern class d amps. The power supplies that are used with hypex and purifi modules are insanely powerful and capable of massive amounts of current, there is no speculation about current delivery or power with such amps vs something pointlessly expensive that you assume is better. Power supplies also don't make an amp more powerful than what the rest of the amp, the driver chip the mosfets and what have you, is capable of, what matters is that it is capable of feeding enough current to match the amps capability when it's at full load. Giant expensive linear power supplies aren't needed or superior to an smps.
Go look at actual testing and data for a hypex ncx500, that thing is a monster. Whatever expensive amp you're thinking of cannot put out as much power (aka current) as that, for around a grand. Or the nc500 or nc502mp for even less.
700 watts at 4 ohms per channel, 500 per channel, or purifi at 450w per channel... At 4 ohms and 1% thd.
Good morning, Kristi and Andrew (and Kadie)! :)
Hi Leezah!!! How are you?
@@KristiWrighthi Kristi! I am well, thank you! How are you!🥰
Morning!
@@andrewrobinsonreviewsMorning!!!
@@LeezahB Hanging in there! It's a busy day at the Robinson house. We're finally see tile laid on the pool!! :)
wow! so you can't even run these speakers with bas-x amps?
OOH wow, we cant maketssssss
At ruclips.net/video/YvSsqgCkqpU/видео.html -- Do you think the BasX line Emotive offers could drive these? Like, say, the A2? That's a pretty inexpensive amp for the claimed 250x2 at 4ohms.
That said, I'd probably opt for a Crown XLS1002 if I were looking for a budget amp to drive these.
@@robertwright3302 honestly, I don’t see the criticism as hate. This happens a lot in product development where a company has a target market, develops a product for that market, but misses on a key aspect that runs counter to that market. Developing a “budget friendly” speaker that dips into 2 ohm territory is a miss, because few AVR’s can handle impedance dips that low, and certainly not any AVRs that would be budget friendly. I think that’s a fair criticism to level here.
Now how someone likes the sound of these is going to be very personal, dependent on their own room, possible eq, type of listening they do, etc. If you like how they sound, and have ample power, that’s really all that matters at the end of the day.
Why do you need so much power to run a good set of speakers, 99% of people like myself love listening to music but dont need 10,000 to do it. Ill take my yamaha 2080 and my klh kandalls and get great great results at great volume. Your just not reaching out to the masses with speakers that need massive power to run them.... plus you need the space for the equipment. Just my opinion
Here’s my small thoughts on the consumers being testers: I hate that. I personally believe that this is a very poor and dishonest thing to do by the manufacturers. I’ll bring a different industry as an example: the car industry. Mazda released a lovely (from what it seemed) vehicle, the CX-90. But just after a year on the market, that single model vehicle has over 50 different recalls stacked up. 50 recalls in one year! How was it tested?! You’re paying 40K+ for it, high end trims being 60K+. That to me is absolutely unacceptable. And I believe the same for the audio and hifi world. If I’m paying you money, it doesn’t matter if it’s $1, or $10000, I’m buying a product and it should be expected for it to be fully ready to go and free of bugs, flaws (as in manufacturing) and ready to perform as intended. I’m surprised the hifi companies don’t do contract based hiring for testers. That’s a completely normal thing for gaming industry for example, where the company posts a limited time based contract to test the new game. For like 2-4 weeks. After that, your job is done, the company fixes what bugs and stuff they can, and it goes “gold”. Why not offer a contract based position (NDA and all of course, as expected), for regular consumers to test new products for a limited period of time, like 3-4 weeks, then claim the products back, gather all the feedback, adjust the design/concerns, and then release it? It saves them money in terms of having testing done on a constant basis, so they wouldn’t a huge staff to do the testing, and will have a real world usage feedback. Just a thought.
Thank you for a lovely conversation! Love the Unplugged episodes!
Third-party testing requires time and money, which are becoming more precious than oxygen in today's world. Businesses are having difficulty surviving with product cycles that used to last years. You must have something "new" every 10-18 months; otherwise, you risk being forgotten in the noise. Fast-fashion business models have permeated every aspect of the retail world (hifi included). As a result, I fear testing and outside opinions are often the first cut to save on development costs. It's a real problem, but so long as costs go down, like Kristi says in this video, I don't think consumers mind because, at the end of the day, they're saving money (at least it looks like they're saving).
@@andrewrobinsonreviewsvery interesting thoughts. I was thinking at least for speakers it would be helpful, since they release updates to the lines slower compared to other industries. But I totally understand your point and it makes total sense.
This is the result of poor engineering.
I would like to see both the impedance that those 3 woofers are running, as well as phase impedance, and I suspect that it behaves poorly.
It would been seen in simple and cheap measurements, and it wouldn’t be that expensive to have measurements close to anechoic (look at how Audioholics measures speakers), even if a Klipplel measurement would show the whole picture.
The R Meta lineup measurements show that both the on and off-axis measurements are great (following the Harman studies). 😉
While the Martin Logan’s might look similar in design, they actually have a huge difference in the tweeter, which is a bigger (an probably well designed) wave guide, which helps a lot with horizontal and vertical dispersion.
There’s a reason why some loudspeaker manufacturers have more than half a century in existence, and others don’t. 😉
Center speaker is weird soo i dont care
May I ask why you say that? Is it the lack of symmetry?
Yes the asymmetry in 2024 is a bit novice when other companies are aligning drivers coaxially and in phase(? Whatever the SVS are doing)
There is no way the center provides and even sound to those listening with that arrangement sideways. The center would be best stood up on its side but doesnt look like it was designed for that either
And yet, 7.2.4 setups sound better with a center channel horizontally. Vertical center channels are trash in the real world. @@user-jm8ky1kn2t
stay away....their are to many other solutions out there that don't cause this much stress to anyones system!!!!
I have the juice to run these
I had the Emotiva BasX-A3 and it was terrible, not musical, couldn't hit the high notes.
Morning!
Good morning ma’am! Hopefully it’s a beautiful and sunny morning! 😇
@@gavriushkaGood morning! Hope all is well!🥰
Morning Kristi!🥰
@@LeezahBmorning LeezahB! It’s going alright I guess! 😅
@@gavriushka😉🙏
How many home theater speakers do I need?
The speakers in the thumbnail looks like a halfway decent starting point to me.
Thanks to both of you. I have a pair of xpa-1 that have been feeding my MartinLogan Theos (with two subs) since 8 years and I was expecting the new Emotiva with great anticipation. At the Montreal Audio Show, the XT3 were the ones on demonstration and yes they rocked, but for quiet listening of cello or string quartet they would be a bit too much. Good week-end to you.
I love your channel. I go to sleep, wake up and rewind the videos. Kristi’s voice is so soothing. Sorry Andrew, you’re ok too 😂 - No annoying music in the background (urghhh why do people do that) anyway. Thanks 🙏🏾
Love your unplug series!
Need point out something though, you said that this is an example where the measurements do not reflect what you heard and pointed out how linear and flat the FR of this speaker is.
You suggested that the measurements cannot tell the whole picture but this is not accurate in my opionion.
You are just looking at one set of measurements namely the FR and yes this is not enough to describe a speaker it is obvious, this is why we look at a lot more measurements.
By definition what we hear at our subjective listening is measurable because everything abides to the rules of physics and psycoacoustics, you just need to know where to look.
once you produce and look at all the relevant measurements for various attributes of each speaker, the correlation between what you heard and what you measure will be there. Its science
From the little knowledge I have in speaker design and components, what I understand is, the cheaper the internals on the speaker compared to the drivers themselves, the harder it becomes to drive as a package. They had to save money somewhere to meet a certain price point, and either they got really crappy drivers (they didn’t) and got good internals, or they did the opposite. And it seems like they did the latter. Unfortunately, the went with this specific way to design it; instead of trying to balance it between the speaker drivers and the internal components. Which to me is a bit of miss in this one. There are plenty of speakers out there that do an incredible job of finding balance between the two, Klipsch RP line, Polk R series, even Martin Logan newest line of budget motion speakers. I think the reason those are so good, is because they’re balanced in their design and the entry cost to actually make them sound well, is far lower compared to Emotiva. Sure, they make really good amps with damn good power, but at that point, you could get slightly lower powered amp with far better speakers? Either way, I think this speaker line needed more work and time in the oven, but that’s my personal opinion. I’ll post an extra comment about the consumers being the testers as well, as that hits my itch quite a bit.
Hope everyone has a lovely Friday!
Thank you for your reviews. Your review of the T2 (which I was going to get) made me realize I didn't have the power to run them so I decided on getting the Martin Logan Foundation F2's and a B2 as a center. Your review of those speakers helped me make that decision. I have had them a week now and love them. They are detailed, dynamic and punchy. A great beautiful speaker.
Great show and thank you for taking my question. Regarding today's main topic of power and its perception related to watts being the driving force. Can you maybe discuss the relationship of amplifiers that promote (use to at least) high current more so than its wattage e.g. Adcom, Krell, Parasound to name a few. When I had Martin Logan's electrostats the Krell's and Adcom's drove them with little effort and with not more than 150 watts. Thanks for all you guys do ✊🏼
Low volume "KING" - Sonus Faber Lumina II ??? 🤔
It is one of them in my opinion.
I have the Emotiva T1+ with the A2 amp. They are great until you turn them way up. Clean, yes. Powerful, yes. The AMT tweeter at low to around 85db is lovely. I use some Q 3050's that are great on the same amp. Less fatigue at high volumes. As usual, preferences are paramount. I'll be picking up the ML XT100's on your recommendation and retiring the T1+. Thanks for taking the time to review!
Not sure the point of these video. Is it a hit job? Ok, they are 4ohm speakers. They will be power hungry just like all 4ohm speakers.
May be wrong but It's more from the point of an affordable speaker set needs expensive amplification to get the best out of them which doesn't really make commercial sense from the fact those who will most likely buy them then don't have the coin to go out and buy new amplification because their AVR's can't do the job adequately. As I said I could be wrong just my thoughts, cheers.
@@malsmith2012 or you started with a nice Amp and there is no problem, or your happy with a 2.1 or 2.2 system and don't need an super Expensive AVR to run it. I am pretty sure my Yamaha R-N800A can drive them easy with the 2.1 it was intended for. But when you get into AVR and home theater it pays to do research......... 4 ohm speakers are 4 ohm speakers and like alot to get them rocking. Once again kinda common knowledge if you want to go down that road of entertainment. Just my Opinion. I don't make alot of money. So before I purchase any audio equipment I do my research. Besides I take what Mr. Robinson says with a kilo of salt and not a pinch. Just beware. Salesmen are abound.
I just go with brute power AVM90, XPA-DR3, ARENDAL 1723 for the LCR. Monolith 7 and 4 Emotiva T2. Horsepower and torque.
Andrew I just realized something. You sound like agent smith from the original matrix.
Well, despite being a villain, Smith was a badass, so I'll take it. Thanks for watching!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews anytime! Agent smith was cool indeed!
Sounds like these are really made for big home theatre’s with a lot of distance between the listeners and the speakers. It appears these are not your daily do it all listening speakers, these are for those dedicated theaters where you’re turning these up.
I have planning to buy denon 1800 h avr with Polk es 10 and Yamaha ns p41 speakers ..and my question is how good is my configuration?