This sounds so Victorian. like being banished from high society (bbtssb) for unruly and deviant behavior (filling in your phone number in the wrong format)
I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know fully but usually with defamation claims it gets really difficult if the parties are in different countries? Wild none the less 😱
Oh cool. You uploaded just 36 minutes ago! I have a weird story about Baby the Stars Shine Bright from this period. I simply typed in my address wrong, which at the time, Sana would absolutely ban you for. I had to basically beg in an e-mail back to her that I wasn't a stupid gaijin and could, in fact, write my address correctly.
As someone who desperately wanted to get into lolita fashion back in 2007, but couldn't until 2019, this is so bananas to me!! Definitely glad to have missed out on getting the ban hammer.
I ordered directly from btssb in 2004, which was before I think the whole mess started. You could really notice they didn't have experience with selling overseas. I heard they had some issues with people misusing credit cards (they may have been scammed, idk) which, if true, explains the distrust and reluctance of dealing with overseas customers. That still doesn't excuse the way they went about it. It would have been better for their reputation if they kept sales domestic only (like AP used to do) until they had a proper way of handling incoming orders from overseas. I order from btssb a lot now, but always use a shopping service to have more international shipping options (yes, it turns out to be cheaper that way in the end). If you're still black listed I recommend doing that instead.
@chloebee80085 Exactly. There are several shopping services you can use in Japan. Some only do online orders for you, others will also go to the physical store location if necessary.
@@chloebee80085 Yes, think personal shoppers for luxury brands like Chanel/Hermes. Except this is a subculture, and the brands were super xenophobic back in the day which rubbed off onto western lolita culture in the form of elitism 🤦♀️
Ah blacklisting, the bane of niche communities where it is simply not that serious. This one bjd brand blacklisted one of my friends because they put the competing brands' wigs on their dolls. There are a bunch of other instances too, the creator is notoriously petty. Glad to hear other communities also deal with this lol. Something about luxury hobbies turns some people feral
Japanese customer service is polite until something goes wrong with the product- then depending on the shop/salesperson you will either be treated fairly or you will get a lot of passive aggressive blame. Here's an example. This was not an incident with a lolita brand but my friend and I both bought clothing in the same print from a brick-and-mortar store in Japan. My friend is Japanese and I'm from the UK (but have lived in Japan for over a decade and I'm a translator/pretty fluent). Anyway, after we both wore our purchases once, we experienced an issue with the dye leaching out of the fabric onto our skin/undershirts and leaving behind marks on the fabric. Clearly the dye hadn't been fixed properly. I went back into the store first to complain- received lots of apologies but was also told "maybe it's because you have different sweat as a foreigner." (I'm not someone who sweats much, but that's beside the point). Fortunately then my Japanese friend came in but even then they still tried to fob us off with reasons that it could be our fault "maybe you both have different sweat?" "Did you perhaps eat something spicy?" and "Did you wash them in very hot water?" My friend also forewarned me that we should take in evidence- so I had my (now blue-stained) Uniqlo undershirt with me, plus my bra that the dye had also seeped into despite the undershirt (that's how bad it was). In the end, the manager decided to re-dye the clothes for free in a different colour- which ended up working out fortunately. But throughout this whole process, they were acting like my friend and I had both massively inconvenienced the shop. Safe to say we never bought anything there again.
So, about the suing, both South Korea and Japan have defamation laws that allow companies to sue others if you bad mouth them, whether or not what you say is true or an opinion. Meaning if you say anything negative, you’ll be sued and the party suing you will win. That’s why the email said the company would sue the customer. Not all businesses in Japan and South Korea know about the Western Legal System where you can’t sue someone for leaving a negative review, especially in the 2000’s to early 2010’s.
i ordered from them back in the day when isobe would send you a paper copy of your completed excel spredsheet as the receipt (this was around 2011-2012). i never had issues with their international customer service but there were multiple stories on the egl livejournal community at the time, including the ABSOLUTELY WILD story about the girl whose shoes busted as she was putting them on her feet and got blacklisted for getting upset when the CSA told her that the shoes weren't faulty, the issue was her (apparently) big western feet :')
My friend got banned back then. We did a group order for ten things, which was the limit allowed, and all they had in stock were the socks. They sent us an invoice for the socks and shipping that cost more than the socks. So my friend emailed and asked to cancel and they banned her. They seem to have forgotten, though. She was able to order again a few years later.
I think it is hard to remember that unless a seller was a catalogue company, selling by mail order just wasn't worth the costs. A company would have to have someone handle these orders, probably on top of other duties. Besides the issues of currency exchange and money orders, they had to know packing requirements, shipping limitations and many more details. (And, shipping to different countries required completely different information.) Someone had to physically carry the package to the post office or equivalent and fill out all the forms they also required. I did it in the 80s from Japan to the U.S. and it took hours for one package! Those email details you described sound like what we ('back then') had to fill out on an order form, even if it was for a catalogue company. If the order was hard for them to read because of unclear use of the language or missing details to be certain of what they wanted to buy, it took additional effort to try to get clarification. That order would have been put on the bottom of the pile to be dealt with 'when there was time'. Having a reply take 5 days seems perfectly reasonable when dealing with a small company, even now. I deal with a small, niche company here in the U.S. and I am pleasantly surprised if I hear back in less than a week because I know the owner is busy doing all the many aspects of his job. After all, he can't sell me a product if he hasn't had time to make it. Mail orders have a long history with the earliest examples taking literally years to be delivered. Even a Sears catalogue order (anyone remember that) would take 1 month for the mail to get to them, time to gather and ship the order, and then 2-3 months to ship it across the country (by wagon or later, train) . No Amazon Prime!
It seems like it’s still going on because when you try for a lottery item from Baby SF, it states that you may be banned from future purchases if you win the lottery item but don’t pay for it.
I am someone who was introduced to lolita fashion in 2019. I am so greatful to have been born DURING the time lolita was this difficult to obtain (‘09) and not live through it. This was very entertaining as someone who has and will never experience this. Lolita history is a strange thing.
Wow, nostalgia bomb. I remember having the impression that BABY and other companies felt that they were going out of their way to do international customers a favor, and therefore didn't really view them as, well, customers. They were just an "extra" thing. I don't think it was xenophobic or even elitist in origin, it was just a difficult project which took more work/effort/time to do, and they weren't getting paid more for it. A way more reliable method was using a shopping service -- which at the time meant *knowing someone personally* who was in Japan and spoke Japanese, who would physically walk down to the store to pick out items and ship them to you. A handful of folks offered sometimes to the community, but all of them had to be careful -- if they went too frequently or bought too much they'd get caught as resellers and thrown out. There were actually a lot of people being refused entry to stores for various reasons of how they looked or who they were. I have heard you basically can't go into the stores and/or buy anything if you're a grown man, unless you are accompanied by a woman, for example. I'm sure EGL stores aren't the only ones that "curate" their customers to protect their image/vibe.
Back when I first got into lolita fashion, I didn't know about livejournal or that local lolita communities existed in America, so my mom asked a Japaense coworker for help with ordering a dress from Baby in 2008 or 2009. After that I emailed them myself. I think the last thing I ordered directly from their Japanese site was the Sister Maria's Hummingbird skirt on pre-order back in 2014. Also, while I do agree that customers shouldn't get whatever they want just because they're customers, I think that they should at least get a refund or something for faulty products (i.e. products that break very quickly or cause harm).
Also, google translate used to ALWAYS translate いただきます as "bon appetite," so when I put the emails I received from Baby through google translate it'd say "You will Bon Appetite your package within a week," lol
They are incredibly xenophobic from the looks of it. If you don't want to send products abroad simply don't give the opportunity instead of making "gajins" jump loops for getting a (usually) expensive dress. Its straight up mean. Ive bought from japanese people personally and they always helped me out when i had a mistake and are very grateful with the buyer, even trying to make shipping cheaper. I can't believe people kept buying there when they were being treated so badly 😭 totally prefer newer brands, so thankful there's so many now compared to 10 years ago
There's this specific type of racist/xenophobe in Japan. They'll crucify you for every little mistake, and they love to use the minimal power that they have to try to teach you a lesson. In my whole life, this is the WORST type of person I've ever met. It radiates hatred. I've seen these types antsy with hate, and you can feel that they lose control of their composure the more they spend time with you and your 'mistakes' (literally anything that shows you're not a robot). It's really dark.
I almost got blacklisted ordering from the San Francisco store in 2011 because I took too long to respond to an email lol. When the San Fran store first opened, you could order from them through email and pay with PayPal. It took two months to receive my items, and one of the pairs of socks I bought came in the wrong colorway.
I got blacklisted for ordering, waiting a week for a response, receiving a reply from Sana three days later telling me that the 10 day pay by period had now passed. I was mad lol
Oh I assure all of you this was quite real. You HAD to copy and paste tables and Google Translate didn't exactly exist as a useful tool yet. There was a legit anger that lolita was gathering steam in the west as well as in Japan, some Japanese lolita enthusiasts wanted to gatekeep and keep westerners out of it. And some of it got worse when westerners started their own brands. Online lolita groups started suddenly having rules that you could only make posts showing items of Brand™. A lot of this insanity died off when China got in on the fashion, and there was suddenly a LOT of competition in Asia.
That is wild. Like the waiting bit ain't that bad, I know somethings take time to do, but my ADHD ass could never jump through that many hoops for a dress 😂
Customer service in countries other than America is quite different. I've seen this at home in Australia and overseas. It's a culture clash, so in general for Australia. - Retail workers are polite, but more natural. And we don't use sir/ma'am. - If you throw a fit, you will be thrown out of the shop. - If you are rude, depending on the shop, they might be rude back to you. - Change of mind returns aren't really a thing. - Alterations to food isn't a thing. I get weird looks just asking to take things _off_ a dish, let alone substitutions. If you have to make more than two alterations (really more than one) they will look at you funny.
any order outside the US I make, I assume It's non-refundable. I always make sure before I buy. ACTUALLY my old Daycare boss threatened to sue me and others for calling her out on FB LOL, so yeah, people love to threaten to sue
in my country the consumer guarantee act says that the buyer is owed a refund if the product is deemed not fit for use/purpose ie breaking immediately but i have zero idea what laws japan has
In the UK we don't even have a right of return for retail products, but majority of stores have their own policy, usually return unworn/undamaged within 14-30 days for an exchange or refund. Its not a consumer right, shops could take it away at any point if they wanted to. Also why remind me of the Kelly Eden incident? 😅 still can't believe she badgered AP for a refund, the poor staff
I've been following your content since the early 2010s and recently got back into lolita and himekaji fashion! There's a BTSSB in my area that I walked past the other day and am so happy that you archived this event. xD
I think the first time I bought from Baby was in their store in Paris (RIP) because I grew up on LiveJournal hearing these stories and would rather buy in person, even if that meant going to another country (I was living in Germany in 2011-2012 so it wasn't that far). I recently dealt with an error on the part of my post office resending my Antique Beast order because they failed to contact me, thankfully I was able to contact Antique Beast and paid for additional shipping and I got my package. I told the post office worker off, saying that small Japanese designers will blacklist people for inconveniences like that. I did not get blacklisted from antique beast and that worker learned that every international package has an attached phone number in their database-- so all in all it was ok. Also seconding Brand shoes not being worth it, Taobao has cheaper shoes. If you want good quality shoes that last I recommend American Duchess or Flueflog or even tracking down Vivian Westwood. I did wear Baby's shoes in a Fashion show and they were fine walking around then but I would not take them outside and walk around in them. You can buy the shoes if you want a complete look from a brand to wear to an indoor event but otherwise not worth it.
I remember people telling me about the money orders and how insane the whole process was lmao it put me off ordering from Baby brand new so I just bought secondhand instead
Usually when a business has a blacklist it is effective for the whole life of the business. In some cases businesses attach the reason for being on the blacklist as well so the issue can be revisited if it’s needed.
I can't believe I totally missed this drama back in the day!! (ok, maybe I kind of do, since my small world in the 2010s was focused on Latin American EGL circles). I had to laugh at the nod to Kelly though, that's a classic I'm aware of. I do appreciate knowing this history now! how wild
Deleting a video and refusing to take accountability is unpleasnt and immature. Not at all lovely. There was some great constructive criticism under your peep tv show video but you just went and threw it away! Please stay away from transgressive books and films in the future.
@@patisserieprincess005 Its about a case that she makes a review about a Japanese experimental film called Peep TV Show which she deleted the video , that video indeed a bad take also a weak take video , and there is a part of a video that criticizing hikkikomori person that sounded leaning on ableism
oh i did not realize Lor deleted that video. I think it was really interresting since i never heard about that movie. i dont understand why she deleted it
I would be so turned off by dealing with a retailer that operated like this that they could be selling diamond encrusted pokemon cards and I would still take the hardest of passes. 🙂↔️
As a a European, when I hear Americans talk about customer service, it sounds like they go to restaurants to get an indentured servant for 2 hours, and not to eat, and to me that sounds like a fetish, and not something every restaurant is required to provide.
Lol good job deleting the Peep TV Show video and everyone's comments asking for accountability on this video. Don't worry Lor, you can hide it here but I'm sure the Lolita community is enjoying throwing you under the bus in other places online. I await the 2 seconds it will take for this comment to be deleted.
She just didn't like the movie? I agreed that the review was in poor taste but i dont think it's something she needs to take accountability for? Its not that serious 😭😭
Wait why are people mad about that video? I thought it was a really reasonable take that she clearly stated at many points was her opinion. What could she possibly have done wrong there? Did I miss something? Also omg you’re so bitter I beg you log off and go hug a loved one “I await the 2 seconds it will take for this comment to be deleted”?? You’re not that relevant chill out 😂😂 -sincerely posted a whole day after your supposedly deleted comment. I’m not a Lot stan or anything, I was just so flabbergasted by this comment hahaha
Why does anyone care if she criticized a movie and shared her opinion? People are allowed to not like things and talk about it. I'm so confused by this being considered controversial.
This looks insane... if they don't want my money, I'll bring my business elsewhere! Why are they opened to overseas customers at all if they don't want to really deal with them?
this is wild wouldnt the point of any business be to get customers ? its weird to be made to jump through hoops to have a shopping experience on any site from any country. it seems like this brand owner is very much a mean girl in mantality .if your going to allow sales outside your country then you have to learn how to deal with that even put a team together who understands a language.
Ngl I think you could very well be right about Sana-san not being an actual person and just being a collective name used by the international marketing workers. I’ve heard some Chinese brand reseller sites do that to keep things easier so it’s definitely a possibility.
lol I am on the Baby blacklist because my address wasn’t the same as the one on my credit card. I actually still have the emails lol. I have ordered from Baby’s SF store in like 2011 or 2012 and had no trouble.
Wow, back when I could afford lolita fashion I ordered from BTSSB a lot between 2009-2011. My first lolita purchase was from Baby. Didn't know that she was the one handing the orders
Back in the day, I can remember buying something from alice in the pirates ( I think it was a coat, cause the rest I simply did not fit in omg), and I had to wait MONTHS for it. I knew about the bans, and was afraid that Alice had the same ban-rule, I just waited...And waited.. :') I did receive the jacket tho'! It was such a difficult proces, getting a shipper that ships your item from japan to europe was the most thrilling/nervous part of buying back in the day haha.
Damn, kinda funny seeing this since I only know btssb from Kamikaze girls, which is a movie from 2004. A very queercoded film for sure and a great watch if your into the whole opposite attracts trope going between a yanki and a Lolita girl. Btssb was the MC favorite shop for Lolita clothing and at the end of the film became a part time designer for it but know I'm starting to think part of the movie was a promo for btssb.
My first lolita pieces i bought in 2013 from innocent world, 2 jsk, over some sort of online form? Except. Exceot you had to enter the number of items you want, and the standart setting is 0. Which i didnt notice. So i ordered 2 times 0 jsks........ And then i was confused why i didnt get any items 😂
Now they do this stupid lottery garbage to even buy a dress. I stopped buying baby for how ridiculous they are and the dresses aren't as cute as they used to be, AP and meta all the way.
+gitsforfits *株式会社ベイビーザ スターズ シャイン ブライト K.K. Baby, the Stars Shine BrightⓇ did Prohibition? To quote Raph from **_Turtles:_** Tell us something we **_don't_** know‽*
Sorry to do this, but I have to comment because it's distracting me - I'm pretty sure that small carnival tapestry you have hanging up is AI generated 😭🙏🩷
This sounds so Victorian. like being banished from high society (bbtssb) for unruly and deviant behavior (filling in your phone number in the wrong format)
The horror! How scandalous! (/J)
japanese defamation lawsuits are wild, you can be charged guilty even if whatever you said is factually correct 💀
I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know fully but usually with defamation claims it gets really difficult if the parties are in different countries? Wild none the less 😱
japan's criminal conviction rate is over 99%! they don't play around
Oh cool. You uploaded just 36 minutes ago! I have a weird story about Baby the Stars Shine Bright from this period. I simply typed in my address wrong, which at the time, Sana would absolutely ban you for. I had to basically beg in an e-mail back to her that I wasn't a stupid gaijin and could, in fact, write my address correctly.
Hopefully you were spared the ban hammer ? 🙏
@@LovelyLor I was spared, thankfully! 😰Plenty of horror stories on EGL, on Livejournal!
As someone who desperately wanted to get into lolita fashion back in 2007, but couldn't until 2019, this is so bananas to me!! Definitely glad to have missed out on getting the ban hammer.
OMG, I so vividly remember the anxiety that came with ordering from BTSSB during that time.
I ordered directly from btssb in 2004, which was before I think the whole mess started. You could really notice they didn't have experience with selling overseas. I heard they had some issues with people misusing credit cards (they may have been scammed, idk) which, if true, explains the distrust and reluctance of dealing with overseas customers. That still doesn't excuse the way they went about it. It would have been better for their reputation if they kept sales domestic only (like AP used to do) until they had a proper way of handling incoming orders from overseas.
I order from btssb a lot now, but always use a shopping service to have more international shipping options (yes, it turns out to be cheaper that way in the end). If you're still black listed I recommend doing that instead.
What is a shopping service? Like a third party that buys it for you?
@chloebee80085 Exactly. There are several shopping services you can use in Japan. Some only do online orders for you, others will also go to the physical store location if necessary.
@@chloebee80085 Yes, think personal shoppers for luxury brands like Chanel/Hermes. Except this is a subculture, and the brands were super xenophobic back in the day which rubbed off onto western lolita culture in the form of elitism 🤦♀️
Ah blacklisting, the bane of niche communities where it is simply not that serious. This one bjd brand blacklisted one of my friends because they put the competing brands' wigs on their dolls. There are a bunch of other instances too, the creator is notoriously petty. Glad to hear other communities also deal with this lol. Something about luxury hobbies turns some people feral
Let me guess, did your friend put a Volks wig on their Smart Doll?
Japanese customer service is polite until something goes wrong with the product- then depending on the shop/salesperson you will either be treated fairly or you will get a lot of passive aggressive blame. Here's an example. This was not an incident with a lolita brand but my friend and I both bought clothing in the same print from a brick-and-mortar store in Japan. My friend is Japanese and I'm from the UK (but have lived in Japan for over a decade and I'm a translator/pretty fluent). Anyway, after we both wore our purchases once, we experienced an issue with the dye leaching out of the fabric onto our skin/undershirts and leaving behind marks on the fabric. Clearly the dye hadn't been fixed properly. I went back into the store first to complain- received lots of apologies but was also told "maybe it's because you have different sweat as a foreigner." (I'm not someone who sweats much, but that's beside the point). Fortunately then my Japanese friend came in but even then they still tried to fob us off with reasons that it could be our fault "maybe you both have different sweat?" "Did you perhaps eat something spicy?" and "Did you wash them in very hot water?" My friend also forewarned me that we should take in evidence- so I had my (now blue-stained) Uniqlo undershirt with me, plus my bra that the dye had also seeped into despite the undershirt (that's how bad it was). In the end, the manager decided to re-dye the clothes for free in a different colour- which ended up working out fortunately. But throughout this whole process, they were acting like my friend and I had both massively inconvenienced the shop. Safe to say we never bought anything there again.
You sweat different as a foreigner is WILD omd
So, about the suing, both South Korea and Japan have defamation laws that allow companies to sue others if you bad mouth them, whether or not what you say is true or an opinion. Meaning if you say anything negative, you’ll be sued and the party suing you will win. That’s why the email said the company would sue the customer. Not all businesses in Japan and South Korea know about the Western Legal System where you can’t sue someone for leaving a negative review, especially in the 2000’s to early 2010’s.
i ordered from them back in the day when isobe would send you a paper copy of your completed excel spredsheet as the receipt (this was around 2011-2012). i never had issues with their international customer service but there were multiple stories on the egl livejournal community at the time, including the ABSOLUTELY WILD story about the girl whose shoes busted as she was putting them on her feet and got blacklisted for getting upset when the CSA told her that the shoes weren't faulty, the issue was her (apparently) big western feet :')
My friend got banned back then. We did a group order for ten things, which was the limit allowed, and all they had in stock were the socks. They sent us an invoice for the socks and shipping that cost more than the socks. So my friend emailed and asked to cancel and they banned her. They seem to have forgotten, though. She was able to order again a few years later.
I think it is hard to remember that unless a seller was a catalogue company, selling by mail order just wasn't worth the costs. A company would have to have someone handle these orders, probably on top of other duties. Besides the issues of currency exchange and money orders, they had to know packing requirements, shipping limitations and many more details. (And, shipping to different countries required completely different information.) Someone had to physically carry the package to the post office or equivalent and fill out all the forms they also required. I did it in the 80s from Japan to the U.S. and it took hours for one package! Those email details you described sound like what we ('back then') had to fill out on an order form, even if it was for a catalogue company. If the order was hard for them to read because of unclear use of the language or missing details to be certain of what they wanted to buy, it took additional effort to try to get clarification. That order would have been put on the bottom of the pile to be dealt with 'when there was time'. Having a reply take 5 days seems perfectly reasonable when dealing with a small company, even now. I deal with a small, niche company here in the U.S. and I am pleasantly surprised if I hear back in less than a week because I know the owner is busy doing all the many aspects of his job. After all, he can't sell me a product if he hasn't had time to make it. Mail orders have a long history with the earliest examples taking literally years to be delivered. Even a Sears catalogue order (anyone remember that) would take 1 month for the mail to get to them, time to gather and ship the order, and then 2-3 months to ship it across the country (by wagon or later, train) . No Amazon Prime!
This is such valuable context, thank you so much for your insight!
It seems like it’s still going on because when you try for a lottery item from Baby SF, it states that you may be banned from future purchases if you win the lottery item but don’t pay for it.
Sana-san would make such a great final boss in a lolita dnd campaign 😂
omg
It would be between her and mr Yan lol
I am someone who was introduced to lolita fashion in 2019. I am so greatful to have been born DURING the time lolita was this difficult to obtain (‘09) and not live through it. This was very entertaining as someone who has and will never experience this. Lolita history is a strange thing.
Same! Back then you were lucky if you found an H Naoto, Black Peace Now, or BtSSB piece on eBay. Now it's incredibly easy!
i’m not thattttt much older than you but seeing someone being born in 2009 just made me feel like a senior citizen
Wow, nostalgia bomb. I remember having the impression that BABY and other companies felt that they were going out of their way to do international customers a favor, and therefore didn't really view them as, well, customers. They were just an "extra" thing. I don't think it was xenophobic or even elitist in origin, it was just a difficult project which took more work/effort/time to do, and they weren't getting paid more for it.
A way more reliable method was using a shopping service -- which at the time meant *knowing someone personally* who was in Japan and spoke Japanese, who would physically walk down to the store to pick out items and ship them to you. A handful of folks offered sometimes to the community, but all of them had to be careful -- if they went too frequently or bought too much they'd get caught as resellers and thrown out. There were actually a lot of people being refused entry to stores for various reasons of how they looked or who they were. I have heard you basically can't go into the stores and/or buy anything if you're a grown man, unless you are accompanied by a woman, for example. I'm sure EGL stores aren't the only ones that "curate" their customers to protect their image/vibe.
Back when I first got into lolita fashion, I didn't know about livejournal or that local lolita communities existed in America, so my mom asked a Japaense coworker for help with ordering a dress from Baby in 2008 or 2009. After that I emailed them myself. I think the last thing I ordered directly from their Japanese site was the Sister Maria's Hummingbird skirt on pre-order back in 2014. Also, while I do agree that customers shouldn't get whatever they want just because they're customers, I think that they should at least get a refund or something for faulty products (i.e. products that break very quickly or cause harm).
Also, google translate used to ALWAYS translate いただきます as "bon appetite," so when I put the emails I received from Baby through google translate it'd say "You will Bon Appetite your package within a week," lol
They are incredibly xenophobic from the looks of it. If you don't want to send products abroad simply don't give the opportunity instead of making "gajins" jump loops for getting a (usually) expensive dress. Its straight up mean. Ive bought from japanese people personally and they always helped me out when i had a mistake and are very grateful with the buyer, even trying to make shipping cheaper. I can't believe people kept buying there when they were being treated so badly 😭 totally prefer newer brands, so thankful there's so many now compared to 10 years ago
There's this specific type of racist/xenophobe in Japan. They'll crucify you for every little mistake, and they love to use the minimal power that they have to try to teach you a lesson. In my whole life, this is the WORST type of person I've ever met. It radiates hatred. I've seen these types antsy with hate, and you can feel that they lose control of their composure the more they spend time with you and your 'mistakes' (literally anything that shows you're not a robot). It's really dark.
I almost got blacklisted ordering from the San Francisco store in 2011 because I took too long to respond to an email lol. When the San Fran store first opened, you could order from them through email and pay with PayPal. It took two months to receive my items, and one of the pairs of socks I bought came in the wrong colorway.
why the ai generated tapestry in the bg..??
It looks like Nicoletta Ceccoli art
I remember the LJ post where that poor person wrote about their shoes! "we must sue you" is permanently embedded into my brain!
I got blacklisted for ordering, waiting a week for a response, receiving a reply from Sana three days later telling me that the 10 day pay by period had now passed. I was mad lol
Oh I assure all of you this was quite real. You HAD to copy and paste tables and Google Translate didn't exactly exist as a useful tool yet. There was a legit anger that lolita was gathering steam in the west as well as in Japan, some Japanese lolita enthusiasts wanted to gatekeep and keep westerners out of it. And some of it got worse when westerners started their own brands. Online lolita groups started suddenly having rules that you could only make posts showing items of Brand™. A lot of this insanity died off when China got in on the fashion, and there was suddenly a LOT of competition in Asia.
That is wild. Like the waiting bit ain't that bad, I know somethings take time to do, but my ADHD ass could never jump through that many hoops for a dress 😂
Customer service in countries other than America is quite different. I've seen this at home in Australia and overseas. It's a culture clash, so in general for Australia.
- Retail workers are polite, but more natural. And we don't use sir/ma'am.
- If you throw a fit, you will be thrown out of the shop.
- If you are rude, depending on the shop, they might be rude back to you.
- Change of mind returns aren't really a thing.
- Alterations to food isn't a thing. I get weird looks just asking to take things _off_ a dish, let alone substitutions. If you have to make more than two alterations (really more than one) they will look at you funny.
any order outside the US I make, I assume It's non-refundable. I always make sure before I buy. ACTUALLY my old Daycare boss threatened to sue me and others for calling her out on FB LOL, so yeah, people love to threaten to sue
in my country the consumer guarantee act says that the buyer is owed a refund if the product is deemed not fit for use/purpose ie breaking immediately but i have zero idea what laws japan has
7:51 also if you go with a brand that does mainly shoes it’s easier to find something incredibly versatile
In the UK we don't even have a right of return for retail products, but majority of stores have their own policy, usually return unworn/undamaged within 14-30 days for an exchange or refund. Its not a consumer right, shops could take it away at any point if they wanted to. Also why remind me of the Kelly Eden incident? 😅 still can't believe she badgered AP for a refund, the poor staff
I love brand drama. Just imagining the faceless corporation frowning and fighting with someone is hilarious to me
OMG THE ZIM SLAW CLIP!!! I used to think about that EVERY TIME I have to deal with a dumb entitled customer!! 😂
Sana was such a MENACE!
I've been following your content since the early 2010s and recently got back into lolita and himekaji fashion! There's a BTSSB in my area that I walked past the other day and am so happy that you archived this event. xD
I think the first time I bought from Baby was in their store in Paris (RIP) because I grew up on LiveJournal hearing these stories and would rather buy in person, even if that meant going to another country (I was living in Germany in 2011-2012 so it wasn't that far). I recently dealt with an error on the part of my post office resending my Antique Beast order because they failed to contact me, thankfully I was able to contact Antique Beast and paid for additional shipping and I got my package. I told the post office worker off, saying that small Japanese designers will blacklist people for inconveniences like that. I did not get blacklisted from antique beast and that worker learned that every international package has an attached phone number in their database-- so all in all it was ok.
Also seconding Brand shoes not being worth it, Taobao has cheaper shoes. If you want good quality shoes that last I recommend American Duchess or Flueflog or even tracking down Vivian Westwood. I did wear Baby's shoes in a Fashion show and they were fine walking around then but I would not take them outside and walk around in them. You can buy the shoes if you want a complete look from a brand to wear to an indoor event but otherwise not worth it.
I remember people telling me about the money orders and how insane the whole process was lmao it put me off ordering from Baby brand new so I just bought secondhand instead
Usually when a business has a blacklist it is effective for the whole life of the business. In some cases businesses attach the reason for being on the blacklist as well so the issue can be revisited if it’s needed.
I can't believe I totally missed this drama back in the day!! (ok, maybe I kind of do, since my small world in the 2010s was focused on Latin American EGL circles). I had to laugh at the nod to Kelly though, that's a classic I'm aware of.
I do appreciate knowing this history now! how wild
Deleting a video and refusing to take accountability is unpleasnt and immature. Not at all lovely. There was some great constructive criticism under your peep tv show video but you just went and threw it away! Please stay away from transgressive books and films in the future.
?
what happened?
@@patisserieprincess005 Its about a case that she makes a review about a Japanese experimental film called Peep TV Show which she deleted the video , that video indeed a bad take also a weak take video , and there is a part of a video that criticizing hikkikomori person that sounded leaning on ableism
oh i did not realize Lor deleted that video. I think it was really interresting since i never heard about that movie. i dont understand why she deleted it
What happened, I'm here from youtube recs, everyone is saying that there's drama but not explaining what's going on
The Kelly Eden shade 👀
Just in Australia businesses legally have to provide refunds or replacements when a product has a major problem - a nice thing about living here.
I would be so turned off by dealing with a retailer that operated like this that they could be selling diamond encrusted pokemon cards and I would still take the hardest of passes. 🙂↔️
And people still think this was appropriate to gatekeep clothing 🤦♀️
the extract of the MmM tea party ;w; but Mana in this event was too gorgeous for this dress and headpiece pls;w;
I always felt lucky. My only few email interactions with Sana back in the day were polite.
I wouldn’t recommend brand bags along with shoes. I’ve heard countless stories of them peeling
As a a European, when I hear Americans talk about customer service, it sounds like they go to restaurants to get an indentured servant for 2 hours, and not to eat, and to me that sounds like a fetish, and not something every restaurant is required to provide.
I had customers complain to my boss because I snuck a bar stool to sit on behind the host stand after returning from surgery on my shoulder
i'm in the UK customer service and it's just as bad here
@@averyb9568 twisted my ankle & customers watched me limp to get their products rather than get it themselves solidarity!
Lol good job deleting the Peep TV Show video and everyone's comments asking for accountability on this video. Don't worry Lor, you can hide it here but I'm sure the Lolita community is enjoying throwing you under the bus in other places online. I await the 2 seconds it will take for this comment to be deleted.
i'm here from youtube recommended what's the tea 👀
She just didn't like the movie? I agreed that the review was in poor taste but i dont think it's something she needs to take accountability for? Its not that serious 😭😭
Wait why are people mad about that video? I thought it was a really reasonable take that she clearly stated at many points was her opinion. What could she possibly have done wrong there? Did I miss something?
Also omg you’re so bitter I beg you log off and go hug a loved one “I await the 2 seconds it will take for this comment to be deleted”?? You’re not that relevant chill out 😂😂 -sincerely posted a whole day after your supposedly deleted comment.
I’m not a Lot stan or anything, I was just so flabbergasted by this comment hahaha
Why does anyone care if she criticized a movie and shared her opinion? People are allowed to not like things and talk about it. I'm so confused by this being considered controversial.
The fake Sana theory is so Kamikaze Girls coded I love it 😂😂
This looks insane... if they don't want my money, I'll bring my business elsewhere! Why are they opened to overseas customers at all if they don't want to really deal with them?
this is wild wouldnt the point of any business be to get customers ? its weird to be made to jump through hoops to have a shopping experience on any site from any country. it seems like this brand owner is very much a mean girl in mantality .if your going to allow sales outside your country then you have to learn how to deal with that even put a team together who understands a language.
I love the use of the Invader Zim clip to summarize “the customer is always right” 😆
Ngl I think you could very well be right about Sana-san not being an actual person and just being a collective name used by the international marketing workers. I’ve heard some Chinese brand reseller sites do that to keep things easier so it’s definitely a possibility.
Its funny a very cutsie lolita brand is having foreigners jumping through hoops to buy platform heels 💀 what even was the point of this?
this sounds so much like a specific doll company that i dont even wanna name cause i dont want to be banned.
(Whispering) Rhymes with fart doll?
Why did you delete the video, I really enjoyed your critique. It's a shame that the lolita community does not understand what you were trying to say
lol I am on the Baby blacklist because my address wasn’t the same as the one on my credit card. I actually still have the emails lol. I have ordered from Baby’s SF store in like 2011 or 2012 and had no trouble.
Wow, back when I could afford lolita fashion I ordered from BTSSB a lot between 2009-2011. My first lolita purchase was from Baby. Didn't know that she was the one handing the orders
This is crazyyyy! My first lolita piece was Baby but second hand.
🤣 the holy Lacey doll dress inset 😂🤣😆 I’m dead!
This was a fun nostalgic ride. I love your storytelling. Happy New Year Lor.
4 days for a package to arrive from abroad? wow that is a privilege! Where I live we wait at least 30 or 40 days
Yes! New video :D
Oh man, I used to love BtSSB. I never knew about this. That's a shame...
Back on the day they were solving riddles to be in the Alt Fashion world. We live in the future 😮
This is some real Danny choo level of business management lol
Back in the day, I can remember buying something from alice in the pirates ( I think it was a coat, cause the rest I simply did not fit in omg), and I had to wait MONTHS for it. I knew about the bans, and was afraid that Alice had the same ban-rule, I just waited...And waited.. :') I did receive the jacket tho'! It was such a difficult proces, getting a shipper that ships your item from japan to europe was the most thrilling/nervous part of buying back in the day haha.
Your hard work deserves a fantastic Friday- enjoy 💜 ✨️ 💖 ❤️
Maybe I should try to sew my own Lolita dress.
4 mins! 👚
Thank you for your dedication 💖
Damn, kinda funny seeing this since I only know btssb from Kamikaze girls, which is a movie from 2004. A very queercoded film for sure and a great watch if your into the whole opposite attracts trope going between a yanki and a Lolita girl. Btssb was the MC favorite shop for Lolita clothing and at the end of the film became a part time designer for it but know I'm starting to think part of the movie was a promo for btssb.
My first lolita pieces i bought in 2013 from innocent world, 2 jsk, over some sort of online form? Except. Exceot you had to enter the number of items you want, and the standart setting is 0. Which i didnt notice. So i ordered 2 times 0 jsks........ And then i was confused why i didnt get any items 😂
Sana. Thats a name I haven't heard in a long time 🚬
SANA SAH SANA SAH SANA SAH SAH SANNA SAH 😂
This is really interesting as a lolita who started wearing the fashion in 2020
❤
Not the holy lacy doll set jumpscare 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I object my boots are from 2010 and there still in good condition for there age
A lovely Lo video, right as I food? Lor you spoil me
Now they do this stupid lottery garbage to even buy a dress. I stopped buying baby for how ridiculous they are and the dresses aren't as cute as they used to be, AP and meta all the way.
I feel like Lor is about to be added to the infamous black list.
Oh wow I forgot about those times!!
Oh that sounds so like what Danny Choo does with Smart Dolls rn.
You are the most beautiful person in the room ❤️ 💛 💕
God yes 😅the only can get it if you went to Japan day… now it’s easier thankfully
+gitsforfits *株式会社ベイビーザ スターズ シャイン ブライト K.K. Baby, the Stars Shine BrightⓇ did Prohibition? To quote Raph from **_Turtles:_** Tell us something we **_don't_** know‽*
No soup for you!
Sorry to do this, but I have to comment because it's distracting me - I'm pretty sure that small carnival tapestry you have hanging up is AI generated 😭🙏🩷
I noticed that too. It's reminding me of the photo backdrops in the Willy Wonka chocolate chocolate experience.
@@anothermiddleschoolburnout8816What’s that?! It’s the Unknown! The Uk own is an evil chocolate maker who lives in the walls….
sammmeee i saw it too and its hard not to see it as ai, i hope she clears it up