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I know playing in person is nice, but playing online does have it's perks. The main one is keeping in contact with long time friends that are across the world. Yes, people may "prefer to play in person" but playing with the people I want to in the comfort of my home is huge.
Our group largely plays in person, but from time to time a person can't physically attend due to transportation or a contagious illness, and we set up a webcam on the battlemap and use a voice chat program to include that one or two remote players. This even worked when one of our players was in a rehab hospital after a stroke. We had someone bring him his dice and computer and help set up the software. He's fully recovered now, thank Pasta.
I think we need to stop with the whole in person is always better idea. It's not, it's one way we can play. Constantly demeaning online play as a poorer second cousin ignores the fact that for many its the only way or in fact better. Your point about connecting friends over long distances is true. Also scheduling is easier and for those with anxiety etc it is a great solution.
I would add that, if you are playing online, have everyone change their username to their PCs name if it's posible. My group uses discord, so we always do that, plus we change our user avatar to some image that represents out character.
I prefer online over in-person. -No smell -Easier scheduling (far less last minute cancellations) -Faster dice rolls (especially damage dice) -Easier World-building (with lots and lots of pictures) The only thing I miss about in-person is the snacks. And with my weight, that's a good thing too.
i was introduced to D&D online first, and im currently in my first game of it and i like it. everyone in my group likes it and seems to have fun, and as you said, easier scheduling makes it very convenient for us
Wow, I have to say as someone that has played since 1st edition my online games are WAY more engaging and here's why. In all my in person games the conversations usually stop between sessions, people move on to other things and some are even playing other games. In my online games, I first setup a discord a week before and invite everyone. Then we had a session 0 just for tech setup, character sheets, introductions etc. It was 90 mins and worked great. Then I encourage discussion BETWEEN sessions. People were super engaged and I even allow rolls to happen, since its all online people can just pop open the VTT and roll. It allowed a LOT of NPC interaction to happen outside of the sessions and everyone is still involved.
@@New2DM2 yes thanks, what also happens is that people feel like they are missing out so they are logging everyday to discord just to see whats happened, I have channels setup for in char and story information
I wish I could motivate my online group to discuss between sessions... I set up a discord, handled session 0, encouraged people to talk to each other and me through the discord, wrote narrative session recaps that I posted in a "story so far..." channel, and regularly tried to start conversations... Crickets
@@MrVotiga wow thats too bad, I also leave the sessions on a cliff hanger and allow them to kind of figure out what to do, next session see if you could end right before they take on a tough encounter or right before an important NPC interaction, this may get them to discuss what they want to do next.
@@cmel7841 Just curious... do you have anyone in your group whose schedule doesn't allow in between session play? Does anyone get left behind because of in between session play they can;t participate in??
This isn't exclusive to online, but I've set up a Discord server where between sessions my players write up in-character journal entries or letter's home as a recap. Gives the other players insights to their PCs not normally available. Without being too metagamey about it, it provides another avenue for RP where the players know where to steer conversations to learn more about the other PCs
I do this as well; I also love that I can set up private chats with each of my players so that I can send them whispers that are kept in one nice place, or where I can chat with them about their character and backstories. It is amazing for campaign prep while I sit at my computer doing world building for my players as they steer off the beaten trail.
Me too, I even have a channel named Side-Stories where I tell little stories between the NPCs, without being too meta-gamey, they get a feel for the deeper personalities of them.
@@Powermaster111 I do that as well! It’s also fun because it just helps me get into the world too. I like using it as a way to remind the players that they’re in a living breathing world. That’s partly why I keep a calendar for the world. Calendar helps with the fact that I’m about to have two campaigns in my homebrew setting and when the timelines cross it’ll be good to know what calamities are being told about by town criers and such.
I have a comment to add in support of playing online. One of my groups has a player in Indiana, one in Minnesota, and the rest spread out between the Chicago suburbs and central Illinois. This group wouldn't be possible if we weren't playing online and we have a lot of fun together. The most important part to me is that we DO have fun playing together, and if online is the way we get to connect, that that's an awesome tool to play.
Number 4 is super important. If I could play DnD with my group in person, I'd still use Tabletop Simulator, except we's sit in the same room. There's so many great tools and assets I have access to that let me do a presentation I could never match otherwise. I cant make a different cave system or forest during a rainstorm or an expancive ancient castle every week using physical resources. And even if I could, I couldnt switch them out in a moment's notice
Have you considered trying something OTHER THAN Roll 20? FG has really good dynamic lighting and doesn't bog down as easily. Also, they sale 600$ phones by adding them into your monthly bill over 2 years. So the average person can afford this 'mini computer' because they're only paying an extra 25$ a month for it.
the key to the technology issues is having an IT guy in your group. One of my players is in IT and he can usually diagnose and solve the problem in a few seconds, as long as he has a way to communicate with the player who is having problems.
My group has 2 game developers, a coder, a general IT guy (hardware technician), and a police dispatcher in it. We usually resolve both our technology and communication problems rather quickly I'm not saying we never have a doozie where an issue could not be resolved, but it happens way less than I would expect.
@@ADT1995 My group is actually all technical people. Engineers, Chemists, a DBA an IT guy, and a mathematician. Technical problems are usually not a problem. My players like to interact with the rules systems so we are a little more combat and less RP focused.
We use typing for "cross talk", but yeah talking is better. Sometimes when things are happening a player want's to react there and then, so they will type or emote it in chat.
That tip about starting with a map and then designing the adventure seems like a great way to create content you might not normally have thought of. So cool! Instead of "Orc mine #7" I could end up with "Crumbling Temple to the Great Carrion Crawler"!
AMEN. Foundry is so much better than R20. More stable, better support, better features, and one person buys a license and has it _permanently._ None of this $50/yr or more to unlock all the features. Almost every group I'm in uses Foundry now because it's so much better.
The group I'm in (and now recently started DMing) started in Roll20. There were too frequent glitches, especially with the dynamic lighting. The DM would have to restart frequently. We then switched to Fantasy Grounds Unity. It was a big improvement but more of a money sink. We collectively decided to switch to Foundry VTT to start the campaign I am running. We started at level 1. The group is now level 3-4. Foundry is much easier once you get the hang off it. There is a slightly steeper learning curve (at least for me as the DM), but so far it is smoother. The community created mods are AWESOME. I highly recommend trying it. There is an integration with D&D Beyond, too, so if you own content or have a character on DDB you can quickly import it.
@@billturner5908 Totally agree on the learning curve, but it's _so_ worth it. Speaking of mods, I don't know if you're using it, but if you're not currently using DF Architect, you're missing out on probably the *best* mod for Foundry's wall system. You can make circles and squares and rectangles at any size you need almost instantly with it, and it does curved walls and such as well. (They're still straight between points, but it calculates the curve for you and places the points appropriately.) Just a friendly tip!
I agree that playing in person is better. But as a married man whose wife doesn't play games, she wouldn't respond very well to me being out of the house (or hosting in our house) for face to face games. That plus the fact that I don't have any friends near me who play games and the only real option is online gaming. In fact, I gave up gaming for 20 years because of this...thankfully the technology caught up and I can play again. I agree with all of your points except the video of the players. I do agree in principle it's better, but the screen space we have to play the game is limited enough without 1/3 of the screen filled with our faces. So I use Discord voice chat and we don't turn cameras on. That also helps with the streaming experience I've learned. Anyway, your videos are always very informative and entertaining. You and Dungeon Craft are my two "go to" channels, so keep up the great work!
I've played a little bit of everything: synchronous text chat, voice only, voice and video, and in person. I agree that in person is probably the best experience if you can get it, but there are merits to each style (even live text - not my favorite, but it was very accessible due to internet issues with some online friends who live in rural areas with bad internet and made it very newbie friendly since you could hold the side questions about mechanics while the game kept going). I personally like our virtual voice/voice and video games best for a routine campaign. I've got friends who aren't local but want to participate, and even with local friends, sometimes you just want to play from the comfort of your own home. We use a simple VTT with fog of war (Owlbear Rodeo), DnD Beyond, and a Discord with a music bot and channels set up for pretty much every need, and it's been a great experience.
Also, we play later in the evening so we have pizza break before the game and finish during our pre-game chatter, but gotta have a bio break around hour 2-3
As a teacher that has had to do a fair amount of online teaching in the past two years, I can see a lot of overlap between these spheres. Finding ways to engage students is so important, and addressing them directly is vital. Players are just like grown up students in so many ways.
I agree on the no text to talk. I have two players that refuse to talk in voice for my online game, and they're new to d&d. I try to help them but it's rough
The trick to play-by-post is to keep it to a single, short paragraph and to be dynamic: begin your paragraph with a sentence about the reaction of your character to whatever happened and finish that paragraph with an action (intention & approach), an order, a question, anything that forces the GM and/or the other players to react. Something that concerns them, not nebulous thoughts in the head of your character that nobody can interact with. The key is interaction through and through! And, by the way, this applies to DMs over voice.
There's usually a mixed feeling that I have after watching one of Luke's videos. Some of his advice seems applicable to me and some doesn't. Most of the time I think that it boils down to Luke simply being more impatient than I am. Not an insult by the way. In fact, my tolerance for bullshit is higher than most even in situations where it shouldn't be. That said though, this is the first time in a while where watching one of his videos, I disagreed with the thesis of the video right from the jump. The assumption that playing online D&D sucks is entirely subjective. I've run an office game for the entire two years of the pandemic online. Sure...there are things that we missed about playing in person, but playing online actually made using maps much easier than in person. Making and tracking character sheets was a breeze with D&D Beyond. It also made running the game much easier because unlike some DMs I don't spend money on minis. Don't get wrong...that stuff is dope, but tokens are free to make. And you can't beat the price. Free. Finally, I feel that Luke is glossing over an enormous point here which is clearly that the pandemic and online VTTs are responsible for D&D seeing a massive surge in popularity. The surge in popularity is good for the game as a whole and was much needed considering that in-person play alone wasn't doing it. Could the same surge have been felt with in-person play? Maybe...but it wouldn't have been anywhere near as stark. Most people don't have FLGS near them that run games. They also may not have people local to them that are willing to run. Again online D&D helps a ton in this regard. It's not perfect and indeed you hear the same horror stories you would with in-person games that go wrong, but it's not just a stop-gap option. And any thesis that begins with this assumption is simply too subjective to be worth even discussing. EDIT: As to Luke's assertion that he has a survey that he did where 90% of the respondents said they would prefer to play in-person, I would like to know more about that statistical cohort. What were the ages of the people surveyed? Were they all people that visit Luke's channel? What was the first edition of D&D that they played. I'm not suggesting that Luke's methodology was wrong, but 90% is awfully high. Especially when D&D Beyond's own data and that of Wizards of the Coast seems to suggest that online play is rapidly increasing.
I agree. I love Luke's videos, but this one just confused me. Then again, I use Foundry vtt, which has by far the best customization, addons, and performance I've seen in a vtt, so maybe most people are using roll 20 or something and having a worse time? I'm not sure. It still wouldn't explain why such a large percentage of people would discredit online play. Maybe the answer lies in the demographic of poll takers. For example, I'm Gen Z, and if this poll was through something like Facebook, I would never be represented. Younger generations are more attuned with technology and aren't old enough to of formed concrete habitats. Like if I played dnd on a table for over 20 years, then yeah, I can agree that transitioning to online play might feel like one step forward and two steps back. My table loves how VTTs calculate attack hit, damage, etc all in one click, saving us an enormous amount if time in combat. But if you enjoy rolling physical dice and writing stuff down, then a VTT might feel to video gamey. Sorry for the rant.
I personally prefer online, once you get a good VTT (aka not R20), you can do so much with it you could never do irl. I was writing a list of advantages but it turned into an essay. The sheer amount of stuff you can automate to make your game run smoother and be more immersive is increadible. So much so that now that I have gotten decent at using my VTT, I find it easier to maintain my player's focus both in and out of game when playing online. That's not even mentioning all the session that don't get canceled because of snow, or travel time, or... And my players seem to think so too. Games rarely last less than 6-8 hours.
I often have issues with the dice not rolling. But with Roll20 you can just use the /roll command with your modifiers. I've kept a text file on screen with my list of common /roll configurations in those instances and it worked well.
If you use D&DBeyond, theres an extension called Beyond20 that allow you to just click on an ability check or attack and it automatically rolls in Roll20 for you. Really helpful, both as a player and a DM.
As far as maps go, I'm in the middle. I start with a general idea for an adventure, what kind of things I want it to have, then look up a map that best fits the idea, after which I design the details of the adventure around both the original idea and the map.
Cameras on only works if the whole party lives in a country with good internet throughout. America, especially rural America, is especially bad for this compared to the rest of the developed world. As far as troubleshooting before the game goes , well, stuff can work fine right up to game time and THEN crash, dump you out, lag out, or otherwise fail.
In my experience turning the cameras on has been a bummer. Sometimes we have problems on speaking over each other but at the end of the day all my players (we are all irl friends just in other cities) prefer it that way. Also bad internet messes this up completely, stopping for lagging screens etc .
I definitely agree with solving tech issues beforehand I log onto roll20 about 30 minutes before it starts and play around with it, adding tokens rolling dice subtracting and adding hit points, switching around my discord channels, popping into one and seeing if it works. If it's buggy or not working restart everything and test if that resolved it, usually it does, if not then I move onto the next step for resolving that particular issue It also helps that my group consists of a police dispatcher, 2 game developers, a coder, and an I.T. hardware technician, so regardless of whether our problems are technological or some other barrier to our communication they usually get resolved super quickly.
Omg the map limiting thing is so real! I’ve say in front of a blank map and felt super overwhelmed but if a find a least a simple map with walls and door I’m able to really dive in and come up with cool stuff
The cameras to my last group was not important. We had our characters pictures and we had never met before, it was roll20. It actually really helped for characterization that that character is speaking, not the person. It was kinda nice. We also used push to speak to make sure there wasn't cross chatter.
I think the second tip is only partially good. Using text in addition to voice is better. For example when you have players who use too much talktime you can engage in some roleplay with the rest without disturbing the talking person. Plus if you want to do things the other player are not meant to know about aka 90 percent of rogueactions typing directly with the dm makes for more engaging reveals later than discussing it out loud over voice.
I like a lot of this channel's content, but dang, I'm tired of hearing the "in-person D&D is better than online." I get it! I even prefer in person myself! But the reality is that if we didn't play online, our group wouldn't play at all together. We've had people move, and work schedules and travel time means that we have to be online. It probably helps that we were a close-knit group of friends before we started playing D&D together, so it isn't a struggle to get engaged or excited. But oof, I feel like this "in person is superior!" message is happening more often.
I agree. Would I like to play in person? Of course! But I also love my group and since they are scattered across the country (literally, only my wife and I are in the same place), online allows us to play together.
Agreed. I much prefer playing in person and if I have the option, I will always pick in person over online. But these days half my friend group either lives on the opposite side of the country, or in different countries all together. I have a couple friends I can meet up with to play games with from time to time but since we all have lives outside of dnd, if we were to play in person only we'd go months between each session. Playing online is the best way for us to have a consistent game. I can understand how moving an in person game online can wreck a game though for some groups. I guess it would be better if the subject was just 'how to improve the experience of playing online' rather than bashing online dnd at every opportunity
Online games have an expectation for pretty maps because thousands of them are at your finger tips with a simple Google search, and there are several great map making software out there. When playing in person, a simple sketch on a dry erase board is enough. And it can be enough for an online game too.
I only started DMing in October 2021. So I’ve only ever had the 1 campaign I run as context, but I’d love to _one day_ play IRL just to see the difference. As a DM I may still have Roll20 pulled up purely for the Initiative tracker lol
Actually I have neither a webcam or Smart phone, but have been playing online for a couple of years now. I really get a lot of your concepts. The one thing that I don;t necessarily agree with is shortening sessions. I joined one online game. The group and DM are nice, but the sessions were only an hour to an hour and a half. Sessions that last less than 2 hours can be very frustrating, and make one wonder if it's worth putting out the time and effort.
In-person D&D is way better as a player, but I will say, as a DM, online is so much easier. The amount of information at my fingertips is unsurpassed with online DMing. Games are also much more limited visually unless the DM has money for mini's or time to create terrain. Players who struggle with theater of the mind often tell me it is much less accessible to play in-person. I figure this probably factors into a lot of the content we see in CritCrab's videos. The camera thing is a must. It isn't the exact same as in-person, but it is pretty damn close. It also allows you to see as the DM if they aren't paying attention. "Bullcrapping" is also a must. I always let my players chat for 15-30 mins in discord before I start the game. I give them a generous break mid-session too which they use to talk about the game usually. Really helps them get to know each other.
IMO it is worth the time to make sure all the players know the programs they are using and even trying those programs out together just in case. Also I prefer to still take handwritten notes instead of typing them. Also something I very much like is that you can "give" a player items online including the description of what that item can and can't do. So from that point going forward they automatically have a reference to look at and hopefully won't ask like 100 times whether or not that homebrewn lightning dagger will still deal the aditional lightning damage when it is thrown - YES I DOES FOR GOD SAKE... and NO IT WON'T RETURN TO YOU - YOU HAVE TO RETRIEVE IT! I TOLD YOU TWICE LAST SESSION - JEEZ ;)
When we played in person we had a "decompression" time before we started so that those who drove can just sit back and relax a bit before going full throttle.
I agree with and do all except for the the first one, I know most people I've ever ran for don't really feel comfortable using a webcam, so most of my games simply don't use them. Yet my favorite campaign I have ever ran has been going for a little over a year and a half playing through dungeon of the mad mage, we don't use webcams but it's still one of the best games I have been in as everyone puts a lot of emotion behind their voices.
So I played my first in person game in about 10 years last weekend and I used your Acalanches and Ambushes adventure. Just wanted to say, it was amazing, my players absolutely loved it, I added some stuff because it was a 12 hour one shot session. But a lot of this stuff is going to come in handy for when we start our next campaign online. Anyway, really I just wanted to say a huge thank you and let you know I appreciate your work!
Oh damn, I mean yes, your points are all correct but the premise is just your opinion. I prefer online over live most of the time, only pulling out live for special occasions.
Number 11 is really the most important, i only play online sessions since no one know ttrpg in my hometown. The most reason i encountered on why a player leaves a dnd campaign is bcause their lack of presence in the game
i dont know. all those videos about online DnD and how to fix, or improve it seem to fix a problem that doesnt exist for me. Scheduling - more easy Using Maps - more easy Maths on the fly - more easy Keeping Track of 4+ character sheets and several monsters - more easy implementing pictures, sound, etc - more easy sharing rules with all players - more easy voice chat as an improvement? Even in pubs, text chat wasnt even conaidered other than for behind the scenes communication. oh! undercover behind the scenes communication - more easy Sure, tips like these are content and all that, but I always feel like they make the problem bigger than it really is.
In the limited online gaming I've done, I've found it easier to have an initiative roll I use for turn order when calling on people. I do this roll at the beginning of each session and it is good for the entire session. It is not used during combat when an actual initiative roll is used for combat. This helps me ensure I don't forget anyone during non-combative play and allow them to each have enough time to play. I'd be interested in learning how others handle ensuring everyone gets a turn out of combat.
I DM a play by post in discord, and I'll tell you that due to the ability to be more descriptive in your writing you can end up having a more fulfilling experience, almost comparable to choosing your own adventure book.
Could you try a different VTT than R20 for a month or two then reconsider? I'm not saying that it will 100% change your mind, it's just that in my experience, R20 bogs down the game where other VTT (like Foundry) really helps the game.
I have to say, i like online games. Although i noticed that a constant visual map with details on it isn't necessarily for the better for immersion, because it is easier to become lazy with descriptions. I still think that even with the possibility of moving tokens on a map and have a room or a dungeon visible to the players, theater of the mind is still king for immersion and player engagement. I noticed that players don't ask questions about the environment nearly as much.
theater of the mind is still king for immersion and player engagement. I noticed that players don't ask questions about the environment nearly as much. Because they got it the first time? Or because they're not as immersed or engaged with TotM?
All good points, but I can still tell your primary cause of angst with OnLine is your continual use to that suck called R20. Stop beating the dead horse man.
Making sense of a text-only conversation in a digital game is like you trying to keep up with the chat on your livestreams without the mods... And yeah, the Paradox of Choice is very real. Limits and boundaries help creativity
Started out with D&D doing online sessions with random people I had never talked before. We all enjoyed ourselves without any problems like you mentioned in the video. Honestly, things are improving at such pace that most struggles with VTTs will disappear within a couple years.
We eat pizza at the beginning so eating and pre-game chatting can be done at the same time. One of my groups use discord voice, would love to see us use cameras. As for maps, I am considering using a streaming camera for actual maps/minis as some players don't like using virtual tabletops
on point 2 i would like to point out that hearing and speach impared groups do exsit to where live chat would be a very useful gateway into being able to play but because of this attitude towards it is a highly under utilized method of play.
I've got to say I find it bizarre and hilarious to think that people might not shoot the breeze and talk about life stuff before and after the game or on break just because they are playing online. I think the bigger take away from these videos is that a lot of your viewers started playing DnD offline and have a bias toward it being more fun and or just lack simple technical skills on a general level. Between this video and your last on the topic I find that most if not all of things you mention either A. Aren't an issue for the group I DM for online or B. Playing online makes them easier and more fun than playing in person. (roll20 does suck, but that's a separate and fixable issue.)
Text DnD player here! My first 5+ years of playing DnD with my group were text only and we are still playing DnD by text nowadays! The fun thing around it is that we usually write big, complicated, deliberate posts of how we do things. It's almost as if we are collectively writing a book! But I must say that it is sooooooooooooooooooooo slow. I'm DMing D&D over voice nowadays and holy heck it's so much faster and more dynamic. My party can do enough things in one 3-hour session that would take 4 5-hour sessions in text DnD
I play exclusively online and these are great tips! Except for the camera one... my social anxiety would be astronomical. I still prefer online over in person. Easier to escape the creeps
Playing live through chat is something I did for years, and it's not as crazy as you'd think. It's a really different but unique experience. I think it really helped my reading and writing skills and I did end up publishing a Fantasy novel last year. I'd play in games with 10-15 players at a time and somehow it worked. Some players would write paragraphs for their actions, some would write sentences, and I think the paragraph players really taught me a lot in terms of becoming more literate and improving my own writing skills. Just my two cents.
I play a hybrid of in person and online. I have 2 players physically with me, and 2 online (there's also another that would be in-person but they're never available, that's another issue). The biggest issue, I would say, is audio delay or just general audio quality. And this was worse when all of my players were online-only. Unless everyone's got the tech, it's a small sacrifice, and as Luke said just ensure you give them individual attention to keep them engaged. It works fine.
A good tip to go along with your #11 tip: as a DM, try to talk to the person or people who are dominating the conversations and ask that at least once during the session that when they are are about to speak up, they instead say "Hey [insert quiet player here], what do you think we should do?" this gives those dominant people a job that will make them and the other players feel better without the DM having to constantly step in.
Our online group does nearly all of these, but we can't have our webcams on all the time due to technology limitations. Some of us have really great setups, and others have crappy laptops or phones that are struggling just to voice chat. For maps, I usually either find premade ones or craft custom maps in Dungeondraft if I need something for a specific encounter. Like right now, I'm prepping a massive multi-level mega casino and brothel run by the Graz'zt cult that my party will encounter in a few months. I couldn't find anything remotely close to what I needed, so I've been making it from scratch. Another thing our group does that has really improved engagement is recording our sessions. This won't work for every group, but my players wanted to start recording sessions so they could re-experience their favorite moments on their own time. I post them unlisted here on yt and post the links to the latest episodes in our dedicated Discord server. I even make little animated intros for each new major story arc, which my players have really enjoyed
as a DM who really gets into the game, I love VTT! Cool maps and handouts, colorful tokens, awsome FX. Plus if you have a paid account there's access to the API and you can offer your players all kinds of assets you just cant get sitting at a table. There is no reason for players to be bored unless the DM is just plain bad and or lazy. The added bonus of playing online is that you get to play with folks who may live thousands of miles from your home, or even in a different country! Bottom line, you get out of the game what you put into it whether in front of a screen or around a kitchen table.
The DM Lair. Where the rants cause pokey damage, the plugs are sleazy, and it's all around good fun. Great video. I do miss the opening videos though. Mainly barbarian.
The camera thing is underrated and my biggest advice is to make an online group work, also important advice use the mute option on your microphone, background noises can be very disturbing. I prefer online because you have so much stuff you can use, we use a world-building tool I can search up stat blocks on the fly much more easily and for the most part there is not too much distraction, sure sometimes there is some but usually we manage it. Also in person would be not possible since we are a bit scared across the country. We play for almost 2 years now online, our group formed during the Covid lockdown. It was my only group that used the camera and it's the only group that made it further as just 3-4 sessions. We started with DnD 5e, tried out star wars and are now on PF2e and I run as GM. We had only one change in the entire group, somebody left after the first two months and got replaced. Since then we are consistent and play almost every week, much more than my in-person group back then.
I really like Roll20's Dynamic Lighting :P The current dungeon they're in is low-key based off of it, where Darkvision doesn't work, and they have limited torches (no Light cantrip either) to navigate their way, before they're down to the Everburning Candle.... they slowly advance, their light not making it to the end of the room, and monsters who were already on the map, suddenly appear when illuminated. I do agree that it takes more time for setup, and is a overly resource intensive... but those things don't bother me as much as they do you :-o
I actually like Roll20's dynamic lighting. It was super cool and useful when I was running Castle Ravenloft in CoS. It was an issue when I had a shitty laptop (all my players had gaming PCs) but I haven't had an issue since I upgraded to a better PC. Now that I'm running Pathfinder: Kingmaker, though, it isn't nearly as useful.
The point you made about dynamic lighting is SO validating, yet also heartbreaking. It's way more complicated to figure out how to use than it ought to be. The downside is, my players LOVE dynamic lighting during the times that it does work, saying that it's far more immersive. I only use DL on premade maps I've bought from Roll20, so I still use FoW on every other map, and it takes a huge load off on my end and my players don't seem to notice much. The point that I want to make is, I hope that with Roll20's increased popularity since the beginning of the pandemic, it will encourage them to get their shit together and make Dynamic Lighting (among other things) a lot more comprehensive to use, and more fluid to run on everyone's PCs. I love it when it works, hate it when it doesn't
I build HUGE maps on Roll20 with Legacy Dynamic Lighting, and it's ROUGH. But the new Dynamic Lighting seems to be so riddled with bugs even 3 years later as to be unusable.
Pizza break is usually at the halfway point, about 3 hours in. Usually when half the table goes for a smoke break and the rest are like "Food could be good"
i, personally, 100% disagree about number 8. most of my prep time is making maps, and i highly highly enjoy doing that, is it for everyone? no ofcourse not.
Interesting points Luke. I agree with a lot of this, especially calling people out specifically for what they want to do. The dynamic lighting in Roll 20 really DOES suck. I use FoundryVTT and the lighting is definitely better but I still don't bother with it unless I have to.
Tell them to try Firefox intead of Chrome. I resisted a DM's suggestion to do this for months, but since I switched back in December, I've had much better luck with connecting D&D beyond to roll 20 (using beyond20 for both browsers). I'm usually not that guy who assumes his way is the best - you know, that guy who dies on a hill supporting a Mac over PC, android over iPhone, etc. Just saying Firefox is working better for me in this particular case. Agree with dynamic lighting - fog of war, and agree with finding online maps and tailoring adventures to them.
Hey Luke. Long time fan who never realized that the L&L books that I've been buying (and occasionally cribbing from) were you. Great job with all of them. Like you, I've been DM'ing since 2nd Ed and those friggin packs. Anyway, right now I'm running a 5 person online game of ShadowRun with the idea that I'd be teaching the players as well as anyone who decided to watch. Wanted to know if you'd be willing to pop in once or twice to play an evil NPC. Tbh, not even sure if my players know who you are, but that's the fun of it. Random guy playing an NPC...wth? If you are into it, or not, please just drop me a line. I won't plug my stream here, that just looks like I'm begging ;) Either way, still gonna keep watching and buying cuz you're cool and your work is outstanding.
For our game, my wife and I host. We have it set up so people can show up anytime after 12. Then we talk and hang out. Then go to the table at 1:30 and by about 2 we are playing.
Usually take dinner break either during travel montages or just after initiative if delivery times and cooking allows. For a vtt I've been experimenting with above vtt it works with ddb and uses either websourced maps or RUclips made animated maps.
Few of my players like pizza so the pizza break is the DM stuffing his mouth with pizza. I was recently on one of your streams and got some great help on which VTT to use. I've found roll20 being the cheapest and easiest. My main issue is adding the tokens required for my player's immersion. It just isn't letting me
I've primarily played online. I think I've played twice in person ever... I personally prefer online play in some respects. In online play I can get up from the table in the middle of combat, right after my turn, and go to the bathroom or get a snack. I take my wireless headset with me, so I can still be looped in on what is happening in game. My personal desk chair is also typically more comfortable than whatever would be available on site for an in person game, thereby facilitating longer gaming sessions. At the start of the pandemic, my main D&D group went from weekly 10hr sessions, to twice weekly 10hr sessions for nearly two months. But I think it's fair to say that some more extroverted personalities probably prefer the social high of face to face interactions, where as more introverted personalities are less naturally given to that medium.
I've had the luxury of having players that I used to game with in person and we're stuck online for last year and probably the next one. We just use physical dice, video chat, and I'll use presenter view and a Google drawing with tokens of their characters. It's working because I trust their roles. You can tell because they groan and just to say when they roll the two or that nat one. If you have players that you can trust and will lean into the failures instead of trying to fudge, it works out great. "Hey, we can not fudge, or we can all spend some time learning fantasy grounds and all chip head together for content packs for the books we all already bought". Zero-fudge pact it is 😂
I prefer in person games, but covid put an end to it for the moment. We use Discord for voice and roll 20 or foundry vtt mainly now. I try and spice it up with sound effects, music and with my web cam. As the Game Master for my group I would prefer the guys back around the table, but I don't have the room for the now 6 players in the game.
The Dynamic Lighting in Foundry VTT works perfectly, but I still prefer to use the Simple Fog of War instead, just easier to control and is much less work. And yes Roll20's Dynamic Lighting Sucks, that's why I left and switched to Foundry VTT, which by the way is way better and is more economical.
Sometimes I prefer to type in an online game - mainly because it means I can actually finish my sentence without being interrupted, and I can add some roleplaying descriptive text that might be hard to convey with just my voice.
The only all-online game I played, the DM used a program called Maptool or Maptools. The program worked great for a VTT, though we had to use a separate voice chat program, and neither had a dice roller built in. Fortunately, we were all non-cheaters.
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I know playing in person is nice, but playing online does have it's perks. The main one is keeping in contact with long time friends that are across the world. Yes, people may "prefer to play in person" but playing with the people I want to in the comfort of my home is huge.
Our group largely plays in person, but from time to time a person can't physically attend due to transportation or a contagious illness, and we set up a webcam on the battlemap and use a voice chat program to include that one or two remote players.
This even worked when one of our players was in a rehab hospital after a stroke. We had someone bring him his dice and computer and help set up the software. He's fully recovered now, thank Pasta.
I think we need to stop with the whole in person is always better idea. It's not, it's one way we can play. Constantly demeaning online play as a poorer second cousin ignores the fact that for many its the only way or in fact better. Your point about connecting friends over long distances is true. Also scheduling is easier and for those with anxiety etc it is a great solution.
@@5HT_Ronin I agree. If there were only one right way to do/enjoy things we'd only have one cola (and it wouldn't be Pepsi, dangit!).
This is the main reason of me chiefly playing online. My best friends now live in 3 different time zones.
@@MonkeyJedi99Pepsi used to be the best ... Now it tastes weird
when you address someone, use their character name over player name. I think it helps people be in character a little more.
Online or at the live table... and it helps with 'out of character' statements at the table.
This is a must.
I would add that, if you are playing online, have everyone change their username to their PCs name if it's posible. My group uses discord, so we always do that, plus we change our user avatar to some image that represents out character.
I prefer online over in-person.
-No smell
-Easier scheduling (far less last minute cancellations)
-Faster dice rolls (especially damage dice)
-Easier World-building (with lots and lots of pictures)
The only thing I miss about in-person is the snacks. And with my weight, that's a good thing too.
He said no smell lmao
i was introduced to D&D online first, and im currently in my first game of it and i like it. everyone in my group likes it and seems to have fun, and as you said, easier scheduling makes it very convenient for us
Wow, I have to say as someone that has played since 1st edition my online games are WAY more engaging and here's why. In all my in person games the conversations usually stop between sessions, people move on to other things and some are even playing other games. In my online games, I first setup a discord a week before and invite everyone. Then we had a session 0 just for tech setup, character sheets, introductions etc. It was 90 mins and worked great. Then I encourage discussion BETWEEN sessions. People were super engaged and I even allow rolls to happen, since its all online people can just pop open the VTT and roll. It allowed a LOT of NPC interaction to happen outside of the sessions and everyone is still involved.
@@New2DM2 yes thanks, what also happens is that people feel like they are missing out so they are logging everyday to discord just to see whats happened, I have channels setup for in char and story information
I wish I could motivate my online group to discuss between sessions...
I set up a discord, handled session 0, encouraged people to talk to each other and me through the discord, wrote narrative session recaps that I posted in a "story so far..." channel, and regularly tried to start conversations...
Crickets
@@MrVotiga wow thats too bad, I also leave the sessions on a cliff hanger and allow them to kind of figure out what to do, next session see if you could end right before they take on a tough encounter or right before an important NPC interaction, this may get them to discuss what they want to do next.
@@MrVotiga perhaps...you could randomly reward them in game for developing character in Discord
@@cmel7841 Just curious... do you have anyone in your group whose schedule doesn't allow in between session play? Does anyone get left behind because of in between session play they can;t participate in??
Can't really get the hate for VTTs. We are using Foundry, play once or twice every week, and players and DM alike are having a blast.
This isn't exclusive to online, but I've set up a Discord server where between sessions my players write up in-character journal entries or letter's home as a recap. Gives the other players insights to their PCs not normally available. Without being too metagamey about it, it provides another avenue for RP where the players know where to steer conversations to learn more about the other PCs
I do this as well; I also love that I can set up private chats with each of my players so that I can send them whispers that are kept in one nice place, or where I can chat with them about their character and backstories. It is amazing for campaign prep while I sit at my computer doing world building for my players as they steer off the beaten trail.
Me too, I even have a channel named Side-Stories where I tell little stories between the NPCs, without being too meta-gamey, they get a feel for the deeper personalities of them.
@@Powermaster111 I do that as well! It’s also fun because it just helps me get into the world too. I like using it as a way to remind the players that they’re in a living breathing world. That’s partly why I keep a calendar for the world. Calendar helps with the fact that I’m about to have two campaigns in my homebrew setting and when the timelines cross it’ll be good to know what calamities are being told about by town criers and such.
I have a comment to add in support of playing online. One of my groups has a player in Indiana, one in Minnesota, and the rest spread out between the Chicago suburbs and central Illinois. This group wouldn't be possible if we weren't playing online and we have a lot of fun together. The most important part to me is that we DO have fun playing together, and if online is the way we get to connect, that that's an awesome tool to play.
Number 4 is super important. If I could play DnD with my group in person, I'd still use Tabletop Simulator, except we's sit in the same room. There's so many great tools and assets I have access to that let me do a presentation I could never match otherwise. I cant make a different cave system or forest during a rainstorm or an expancive ancient castle every week using physical resources. And even if I could, I couldnt switch them out in a moment's notice
Table top is awesome for online DND, mixed with roll 20 (to make rolling go by quickly as it add a ton of stuff automatically) it's a ton of fun
Have you considered trying something OTHER THAN Roll 20? FG has really good dynamic lighting and doesn't bog down as easily.
Also, they sale 600$ phones by adding them into your monthly bill over 2 years. So the average person can afford this 'mini computer' because they're only paying an extra 25$ a month for it.
the key to the technology issues is having an IT guy in your group. One of my players is in IT and he can usually diagnose and solve the problem in a few seconds, as long as he has a way to communicate with the player who is having problems.
My group has 2 game developers, a coder, a general IT guy (hardware technician), and a police dispatcher in it. We usually resolve both our technology and communication problems rather quickly
I'm not saying we never have a doozie where an issue could not be resolved, but it happens way less than I would expect.
@@ADT1995 My group is actually all technical people. Engineers, Chemists, a DBA an IT guy, and a mathematician. Technical problems are usually not a problem.
My players like to interact with the rules systems so we are a little more combat and less RP focused.
We use typing for "cross talk", but yeah talking is better.
Sometimes when things are happening a player want's to react there and then, so they will type or emote it in chat.
That tip about starting with a map and then designing the adventure seems like a great way to create content you might not normally have thought of. So cool!
Instead of "Orc mine #7" I could end up with "Crumbling Temple to the Great Carrion Crawler"!
I dropped roll20 and started using foundry. It's an absolute game changer
AMEN. Foundry is so much better than R20. More stable, better support, better features, and one person buys a license and has it _permanently._ None of this $50/yr or more to unlock all the features. Almost every group I'm in uses Foundry now because it's so much better.
The group I'm in (and now recently started DMing) started in Roll20. There were too frequent glitches, especially with the dynamic lighting. The DM would have to restart frequently.
We then switched to Fantasy Grounds Unity. It was a big improvement but more of a money sink.
We collectively decided to switch to Foundry VTT to start the campaign I am running. We started at level 1. The group is now level 3-4. Foundry is much easier once you get the hang off it. There is a slightly steeper learning curve (at least for me as the DM), but so far it is smoother. The community created mods are AWESOME. I highly recommend trying it. There is an integration with D&D Beyond, too, so if you own content or have a character on DDB you can quickly import it.
@@billturner5908 Totally agree on the learning curve, but it's _so_ worth it.
Speaking of mods, I don't know if you're using it, but if you're not currently using DF Architect, you're missing out on probably the *best* mod for Foundry's wall system. You can make circles and squares and rectangles at any size you need almost instantly with it, and it does curved walls and such as well. (They're still straight between points, but it calculates the curve for you and places the points appropriately.) Just a friendly tip!
Agreeing with this one in a BIG way!
Same!! It's amazing
I agree that playing in person is better. But as a married man whose wife doesn't play games, she wouldn't respond very well to me being out of the house (or hosting in our house) for face to face games. That plus the fact that I don't have any friends near me who play games and the only real option is online gaming. In fact, I gave up gaming for 20 years because of this...thankfully the technology caught up and I can play again.
I agree with all of your points except the video of the players. I do agree in principle it's better, but the screen space we have to play the game is limited enough without 1/3 of the screen filled with our faces. So I use Discord voice chat and we don't turn cameras on. That also helps with the streaming experience I've learned.
Anyway, your videos are always very informative and entertaining. You and Dungeon Craft are my two "go to" channels, so keep up the great work!
I've played a little bit of everything: synchronous text chat, voice only, voice and video, and in person.
I agree that in person is probably the best experience if you can get it, but there are merits to each style (even live text - not my favorite, but it was very accessible due to internet issues with some online friends who live in rural areas with bad internet and made it very newbie friendly since you could hold the side questions about mechanics while the game kept going).
I personally like our virtual voice/voice and video games best for a routine campaign. I've got friends who aren't local but want to participate, and even with local friends, sometimes you just want to play from the comfort of your own home. We use a simple VTT with fog of war (Owlbear Rodeo), DnD Beyond, and a Discord with a music bot and channels set up for pretty much every need, and it's been a great experience.
Also, we play later in the evening so we have pizza break before the game and finish during our pre-game chatter, but gotta have a bio break around hour 2-3
As a teacher that has had to do a fair amount of online teaching in the past two years, I can see a lot of overlap between these spheres. Finding ways to engage students is so important, and addressing them directly is vital. Players are just like grown up students in so many ways.
I agree on the no text to talk. I have two players that refuse to talk in voice for my online game, and they're new to d&d. I try to help them but it's rough
Out of principle I’d refuse to play with them. Voice minimum or find a text group
RE #5:
When I worked in IT, I used to tell folks 'Given the size of an electron it is amazing any of this stuff works at all.'
The trick to play-by-post is to keep it to a single, short paragraph and to be dynamic: begin your paragraph with a sentence about the reaction of your character to whatever happened and finish that paragraph with an action (intention & approach), an order, a question, anything that forces the GM and/or the other players to react. Something that concerns them, not nebulous thoughts in the head of your character that nobody can interact with. The key is interaction through and through! And, by the way, this applies to DMs over voice.
There's usually a mixed feeling that I have after watching one of Luke's videos. Some of his advice seems applicable to me and some doesn't. Most of the time I think that it boils down to Luke simply being more impatient than I am. Not an insult by the way. In fact, my tolerance for bullshit is higher than most even in situations where it shouldn't be. That said though, this is the first time in a while where watching one of his videos, I disagreed with the thesis of the video right from the jump. The assumption that playing online D&D sucks is entirely subjective.
I've run an office game for the entire two years of the pandemic online. Sure...there are things that we missed about playing in person, but playing online actually made using maps much easier than in person. Making and tracking character sheets was a breeze with D&D Beyond. It also made running the game much easier because unlike some DMs I don't spend money on minis. Don't get wrong...that stuff is dope, but tokens are free to make. And you can't beat the price. Free.
Finally, I feel that Luke is glossing over an enormous point here which is clearly that the pandemic and online VTTs are responsible for D&D seeing a massive surge in popularity. The surge in popularity is good for the game as a whole and was much needed considering that in-person play alone wasn't doing it. Could the same surge have been felt with in-person play? Maybe...but it wouldn't have been anywhere near as stark. Most people don't have FLGS near them that run games. They also may not have people local to them that are willing to run. Again online D&D helps a ton in this regard. It's not perfect and indeed you hear the same horror stories you would with in-person games that go wrong, but it's not just a stop-gap option. And any thesis that begins with this assumption is simply too subjective to be worth even discussing.
EDIT: As to Luke's assertion that he has a survey that he did where 90% of the respondents said they would prefer to play in-person, I would like to know more about that statistical cohort. What were the ages of the people surveyed? Were they all people that visit Luke's channel? What was the first edition of D&D that they played. I'm not suggesting that Luke's methodology was wrong, but 90% is awfully high. Especially when D&D Beyond's own data and that of Wizards of the Coast seems to suggest that online play is rapidly increasing.
I agree. I love Luke's videos, but this one just confused me. Then again, I use Foundry vtt, which has by far the best customization, addons, and performance I've seen in a vtt, so maybe most people are using roll 20 or something and having a worse time? I'm not sure. It still wouldn't explain why such a large percentage of people would discredit online play. Maybe the answer lies in the demographic of poll takers. For example, I'm Gen Z, and if this poll was through something like Facebook, I would never be represented. Younger generations are more attuned with technology and aren't old enough to of formed concrete habitats. Like if I played dnd on a table for over 20 years, then yeah, I can agree that transitioning to online play might feel like one step forward and two steps back. My table loves how VTTs calculate attack hit, damage, etc all in one click, saving us an enormous amount if time in combat. But if you enjoy rolling physical dice and writing stuff down, then a VTT might feel to video gamey.
Sorry for the rant.
I personally prefer online, once you get a good VTT (aka not R20), you can do so much with it you could never do irl. I was writing a list of advantages but it turned into an essay.
The sheer amount of stuff you can automate to make your game run smoother and be more immersive is increadible. So much so that now that I have gotten decent at using my VTT, I find it easier to maintain my player's focus both in and out of game when playing online.
That's not even mentioning all the session that don't get canceled because of snow, or travel time, or...
And my players seem to think so too. Games rarely last less than 6-8 hours.
Agreed, I use FG even in person with everyone on laptops or tablets.
I often have issues with the dice not rolling. But with Roll20 you can just use the /roll command with your modifiers. I've kept a text file on screen with my list of common /roll configurations in those instances and it worked well.
If you use D&DBeyond, theres an extension called Beyond20 that allow you to just click on an ability check or attack and it automatically rolls in Roll20 for you. Really helpful, both as a player and a DM.
@@genuinefaux2895 I do use that (I love it too) but the roll commands are my backup in case of tech issues.
As far as maps go, I'm in the middle. I start with a general idea for an adventure, what kind of things I want it to have, then look up a map that best fits the idea, after which I design the details of the adventure around both the original idea and the map.
Cameras on only works if the whole party lives in a country with good internet throughout. America, especially rural America, is especially bad for this compared to the rest of the developed world.
As far as troubleshooting before the game goes , well, stuff can work fine right up to game time and THEN crash, dump you out, lag out, or otherwise fail.
In my experience turning the cameras on has been a bummer. Sometimes we have problems on speaking over each other but at the end of the day all my players (we are all irl friends just in other cities) prefer it that way. Also bad internet messes this up completely, stopping for lagging screens etc .
I definitely agree with solving tech issues beforehand
I log onto roll20 about 30 minutes before it starts and play around with it, adding tokens rolling dice subtracting and adding hit points, switching around my discord channels, popping into one and seeing if it works. If it's buggy or not working restart everything and test if that resolved it, usually it does, if not then I move onto the next step for resolving that particular issue
It also helps that my group consists of a police dispatcher, 2 game developers, a coder, and an I.T. hardware technician, so regardless of whether our problems are technological or some other barrier to our communication they usually get resolved super quickly.
Omg the map limiting thing is so real! I’ve say in front of a blank map and felt super overwhelmed but if a find a least a simple map with walls and door I’m able to really dive in and come up with cool stuff
The cameras to my last group was not important. We had our characters pictures and we had never met before, it was roll20. It actually really helped for characterization that that character is speaking, not the person. It was kinda nice. We also used push to speak to make sure there wasn't cross chatter.
I think the second tip is only partially good. Using text in addition to voice is better. For example when you have players who use too much talktime you can engage in some roleplay with the rest without disturbing the talking person. Plus if you want to do things the other player are not meant to know about aka 90 percent of rogueactions typing directly with the dm makes for more engaging reveals later than discussing it out loud over voice.
I like a lot of this channel's content, but dang, I'm tired of hearing the "in-person D&D is better than online." I get it! I even prefer in person myself! But the reality is that if we didn't play online, our group wouldn't play at all together. We've had people move, and work schedules and travel time means that we have to be online. It probably helps that we were a close-knit group of friends before we started playing D&D together, so it isn't a struggle to get engaged or excited. But oof, I feel like this "in person is superior!" message is happening more often.
I agree. Would I like to play in person? Of course! But I also love my group and since they are scattered across the country (literally, only my wife and I are in the same place), online allows us to play together.
Agreed. I much prefer playing in person and if I have the option, I will always pick in person over online. But these days half my friend group either lives on the opposite side of the country, or in different countries all together. I have a couple friends I can meet up with to play games with from time to time but since we all have lives outside of dnd, if we were to play in person only we'd go months between each session. Playing online is the best way for us to have a consistent game. I can understand how moving an in person game online can wreck a game though for some groups. I guess it would be better if the subject was just 'how to improve the experience of playing online' rather than bashing online dnd at every opportunity
Online games have an expectation for pretty maps because thousands of them are at your finger tips with a simple Google search, and there are several great map making software out there.
When playing in person, a simple sketch on a dry erase board is enough. And it can be enough for an online game too.
Also theather of the mind works to if your group is fine with that.
I only started DMing in October 2021.
So I’ve only ever had the 1 campaign I run as context, but I’d love to _one day_ play IRL just to see the difference.
As a DM I may still have Roll20 pulled up purely for the Initiative tracker lol
And the macros for making multiple saves at once!
@@judemapp8804 RPd played online for a few years now and I don't know what that means.
@@johnevans5782 set up that lets you roll several different dice at a push of a button, very useful if you have some common combinations
Actually I have neither a webcam or Smart phone, but have been playing online for a couple of years now. I really get a lot of your concepts. The one thing that I don;t necessarily agree with is shortening sessions. I joined one online game. The group and DM are nice, but the sessions were only an hour to an hour and a half. Sessions that last less than 2 hours can be very frustrating, and make one wonder if it's worth putting out the time and effort.
In-person D&D is way better as a player, but I will say, as a DM, online is so much easier. The amount of information at my fingertips is unsurpassed with online DMing. Games are also much more limited visually unless the DM has money for mini's or time to create terrain. Players who struggle with theater of the mind often tell me it is much less accessible to play in-person. I figure this probably factors into a lot of the content we see in CritCrab's videos.
The camera thing is a must. It isn't the exact same as in-person, but it is pretty damn close. It also allows you to see as the DM if they aren't paying attention. "Bullcrapping" is also a must. I always let my players chat for 15-30 mins in discord before I start the game. I give them a generous break mid-session too which they use to talk about the game usually. Really helps them get to know each other.
IMO it is worth the time to make sure all the players know the programs they are using and even trying those programs out together just in case. Also I prefer to still take handwritten notes instead of typing them. Also something I very much like is that you can "give" a player items online including the description of what that item can and can't do. So from that point going forward they automatically have a reference to look at and hopefully won't ask like 100 times whether or not that homebrewn lightning dagger will still deal the aditional lightning damage when it is thrown - YES I DOES FOR GOD SAKE... and NO IT WON'T RETURN TO YOU - YOU HAVE TO RETRIEVE IT! I TOLD YOU TWICE LAST SESSION - JEEZ ;)
When we played in person we had a "decompression" time before we started so that those who drove can just sit back and relax a bit before going full throttle.
I agree with and do all except for the the first one, I know most people I've ever ran for don't really feel comfortable using a webcam, so most of my games simply don't use them. Yet my favorite campaign I have ever ran has been going for a little over a year and a half playing through dungeon of the mad mage, we don't use webcams but it's still one of the best games I have been in as everyone puts a lot of emotion behind their voices.
So I played my first in person game in about 10 years last weekend and I used your Acalanches and Ambushes adventure.
Just wanted to say, it was amazing, my players absolutely loved it, I added some stuff because it was a 12 hour one shot session. But a lot of this stuff is going to come in handy for when we start our next campaign online.
Anyway, really I just wanted to say a huge thank you and let you know I appreciate your work!
Oh damn, I mean yes, your points are all correct but the premise is just your opinion. I prefer online over live most of the time, only pulling out live for special occasions.
Number 11 is really the most important, i only play online sessions since no one know ttrpg in my hometown. The most reason i encountered on why a player leaves a dnd campaign is bcause their lack of presence in the game
I absoultely LOVE that I got an ad for the kickstarter before this video. Its the only time I've been happy to see an ad!
5:27 - I've found that music messes with people's mics too much, which is why I don't personally use it in my online games.
Typically people who bitch about online D&D are the people who don't bother to learn how to do it.
i dont know. all those videos about online DnD and how to fix, or improve it seem to fix a problem that doesnt exist for me.
Scheduling - more easy
Using Maps - more easy
Maths on the fly - more easy
Keeping Track of 4+ character sheets and several monsters - more easy
implementing pictures, sound, etc - more easy
sharing rules with all players - more easy
voice chat as an improvement? Even in pubs, text chat wasnt even conaidered other than for behind the scenes communication.
oh! undercover behind the scenes communication - more easy
Sure, tips like these are content and all that, but I always feel like they make the problem bigger than it really is.
In the limited online gaming I've done, I've found it easier to have an initiative roll I use for turn order when calling on people. I do this roll at the beginning of each session and it is good for the entire session. It is not used during combat when an actual initiative roll is used for combat. This helps me ensure I don't forget anyone during non-combative play and allow them to each have enough time to play. I'd be interested in learning how others handle ensuring everyone gets a turn out of combat.
I make no distinction between combat and non-combat. Players are "in initiative" at all times. The order is rerolled often.
I DM a play by post in discord, and I'll tell you that due to the ability to be more descriptive in your writing you can end up having a more fulfilling experience, almost comparable to choosing your own adventure book.
Could you try a different VTT than R20 for a month or two then reconsider?
I'm not saying that it will 100% change your mind, it's just that in my experience, R20 bogs down the game where other VTT (like Foundry) really helps the game.
Making an adventure based on an existing map is a great idea. It's like making a character based on a cool miniature.
I have to say, i like online games. Although i noticed that a constant visual map with details on it isn't necessarily for the better for immersion, because it is easier to become lazy with descriptions. I still think that even with the possibility of moving tokens on a map and have a room or a dungeon visible to the players, theater of the mind is still king for immersion and player engagement. I noticed that players don't ask questions about the environment nearly as much.
theater of the mind is still king for immersion and player engagement. I noticed that players don't ask questions about the environment nearly as much.
Because they got it the first time? Or because they're not as immersed or engaged with TotM?
This really helped, I have always wanted my online games to be more fun and I have struggled to find anything but this was what I needed, thank you!
All good points, but I can still tell your primary cause of angst with OnLine is your continual use to that suck called R20. Stop beating the dead horse man.
Pretty good list. But one you missed that is important:
SMALLER PARTIES.
Having 6 or more online is a lot harder than having 4-5 players.
Great extra point!
Always choose map first, use tables to fill dungeon if you like it, let little things inspire you
Making sense of a text-only conversation in a digital game is like you trying to keep up with the chat on your livestreams without the mods...
And yeah, the Paradox of Choice is very real.
Limits and boundaries help creativity
My online game is awesome
Started out with D&D doing online sessions with random people I had never talked before.
We all enjoyed ourselves without any problems like you mentioned in the video.
Honestly, things are improving at such pace that most struggles with VTTs will disappear within a couple years.
We eat pizza at the beginning so eating and pre-game chatting can be done at the same time.
One of my groups use discord voice, would love to see us use cameras. As for maps, I am considering using a streaming camera for actual maps/minis as some players don't like using virtual tabletops
on point 2 i would like to point out that hearing and speach impared groups do exsit to where live chat would be a very useful gateway into being able to play but because of this attitude towards it is a highly under utilized method of play.
Haha my online D&D group has people who talk for hours after the game. We finish at 2pm and there are times peoplemare still talking at like 5 to 6pm
I've got to say I find it bizarre and hilarious to think that people might not shoot the breeze and talk about life stuff before and after the game or on break just because they are playing online. I think the bigger take away from these videos is that a lot of your viewers started playing DnD offline and have a bias toward it being more fun and or just lack simple technical skills on a general level. Between this video and your last on the topic I find that most if not all of things you mention either A. Aren't an issue for the group I DM for online or B. Playing online makes them easier and more fun than playing in person. (roll20 does suck, but that's a separate and fixable issue.)
Text DnD player here! My first 5+ years of playing DnD with my group were text only and we are still playing DnD by text nowadays! The fun thing around it is that we usually write big, complicated, deliberate posts of how we do things. It's almost as if we are collectively writing a book! But I must say that it is sooooooooooooooooooooo slow. I'm DMing D&D over voice nowadays and holy heck it's so much faster and more dynamic. My party can do enough things in one 3-hour session that would take 4 5-hour sessions in text DnD
I play exclusively online and these are great tips! Except for the camera one... my social anxiety would be astronomical. I still prefer online over in person. Easier to escape the creeps
Playing live through chat is something I did for years, and it's not as crazy as you'd think. It's a really different but unique experience. I think it really helped my reading and writing skills and I did end up publishing a Fantasy novel last year. I'd play in games with 10-15 players at a time and somehow it worked. Some players would write paragraphs for their actions, some would write sentences, and I think the paragraph players really taught me a lot in terms of becoming more literate and improving my own writing skills. Just my two cents.
For better or for worse, I almost exclusively plan my sessions around the maps first.
I play a hybrid of in person and online. I have 2 players physically with me, and 2 online (there's also another that would be in-person but they're never available, that's another issue).
The biggest issue, I would say, is audio delay or just general audio quality. And this was worse when all of my players were online-only.
Unless everyone's got the tech, it's a small sacrifice, and as Luke said just ensure you give them individual attention to keep them engaged. It works fine.
A good tip to go along with your #11 tip: as a DM, try to talk to the person or people who are dominating the conversations and ask that at least once during the session that when they are are about to speak up, they instead say "Hey [insert quiet player here], what do you think we should do?" this gives those dominant people a job that will make them and the other players feel better without the DM having to constantly step in.
Our online group does nearly all of these, but we can't have our webcams on all the time due to technology limitations. Some of us have really great setups, and others have crappy laptops or phones that are struggling just to voice chat. For maps, I usually either find premade ones or craft custom maps in Dungeondraft if I need something for a specific encounter. Like right now, I'm prepping a massive multi-level mega casino and brothel run by the Graz'zt cult that my party will encounter in a few months. I couldn't find anything remotely close to what I needed, so I've been making it from scratch. Another thing our group does that has really improved engagement is recording our sessions. This won't work for every group, but my players wanted to start recording sessions so they could re-experience their favorite moments on their own time. I post them unlisted here on yt and post the links to the latest episodes in our dedicated Discord server. I even make little animated intros for each new major story arc, which my players have really enjoyed
As a DM who has only run online, I can't imagine trying to go 4+ hours. Our session reach a good stopping point at 2 hours most times.
pizza break happens in the first 10 minutes it gives us the energy for the coming hours 😤
as a DM who really gets into the game, I love VTT! Cool maps and handouts, colorful tokens, awsome FX. Plus if you have a paid account there's access to the API and you can offer your players all kinds of assets you just cant get sitting at a table. There is no reason for players to be bored unless the DM is just plain bad and or lazy. The added bonus of playing online is that you get to play with folks who may live thousands of miles from your home, or even in a different country!
Bottom line, you get out of the game what you put into it whether in front of a screen or around a kitchen table.
The DM Lair. Where the rants cause pokey damage, the plugs are sleazy, and it's all around good fun. Great video. I do miss the opening videos though. Mainly barbarian.
The camera thing is underrated and my biggest advice is to make an online group work, also important advice use the mute option on your microphone, background noises can be very disturbing.
I prefer online because you have so much stuff you can use, we use a world-building tool I can search up stat blocks on the fly much more easily and for the most part there is not too much distraction, sure sometimes there is some but usually we manage it. Also in person would be not possible since we are a bit scared across the country.
We play for almost 2 years now online, our group formed during the Covid lockdown. It was my only group that used the camera and it's the only group that made it further as just 3-4 sessions. We started with DnD 5e, tried out star wars and are now on PF2e and I run as GM. We had only one change in the entire group, somebody left after the first two months and got replaced. Since then we are consistent and play almost every week, much more than my in-person group back then.
I was playing earlier this evening. I had a power failure during the game. Loads of fun.
9:00 we definitely take a few minutes to catch up. Post-covid with the change in life rhythms it's nice to just catch up for a bit.
I really like Roll20's Dynamic Lighting :P
The current dungeon they're in is low-key based off of it, where Darkvision doesn't work, and they have limited torches (no Light cantrip either) to navigate their way, before they're down to the Everburning Candle.... they slowly advance, their light not making it to the end of the room, and monsters who were already on the map, suddenly appear when illuminated.
I do agree that it takes more time for setup, and is a overly resource intensive... but those things don't bother me as much as they do you :-o
I like some points of this video. But the tittle is wrong. It should be titled Why I don't like playing online or Why playing IRL is better 🤔
I actually like Roll20's dynamic lighting. It was super cool and useful when I was running Castle Ravenloft in CoS. It was an issue when I had a shitty laptop (all my players had gaming PCs) but I haven't had an issue since I upgraded to a better PC. Now that I'm running Pathfinder: Kingmaker, though, it isn't nearly as useful.
The point you made about dynamic lighting is SO validating, yet also heartbreaking. It's way more complicated to figure out how to use than it ought to be. The downside is, my players LOVE dynamic lighting during the times that it does work, saying that it's far more immersive. I only use DL on premade maps I've bought from Roll20, so I still use FoW on every other map, and it takes a huge load off on my end and my players don't seem to notice much. The point that I want to make is, I hope that with Roll20's increased popularity since the beginning of the pandemic, it will encourage them to get their shit together and make Dynamic Lighting (among other things) a lot more comprehensive to use, and more fluid to run on everyone's PCs. I love it when it works, hate it when it doesn't
I build HUGE maps on Roll20 with Legacy Dynamic Lighting, and it's ROUGH. But the new Dynamic Lighting seems to be so riddled with bugs even 3 years later as to be unusable.
Pizza break is usually at the halfway point, about 3 hours in. Usually when half the table goes for a smoke break and the rest are like "Food could be good"
i, personally, 100% disagree about number 8. most of my prep time is making maps, and i highly highly enjoy doing that, is it for everyone? no ofcourse not.
100% agree. map making is a fun and soothing activity :P
Interesting points Luke. I agree with a lot of this, especially calling people out specifically for what they want to do.
The dynamic lighting in Roll 20 really DOES suck. I use FoundryVTT and the lighting is definitely better but I still don't bother with it unless I have to.
excellent video, I have been thinking about some of these things for a bit now running online D&D
Tell them to try Firefox intead of Chrome. I resisted a DM's suggestion to do this for months, but since I switched back in December, I've had much better luck with connecting D&D beyond to roll 20 (using beyond20 for both browsers). I'm usually not that guy who assumes his way is the best - you know, that guy who dies on a hill supporting a Mac over PC, android over iPhone, etc. Just saying Firefox is working better for me in this particular case.
Agree with dynamic lighting - fog of war, and agree with finding online maps and tailoring adventures to them.
XD middle of this video I get an ad for your Kickstarter, which in two days (payday) I'll be backing.
Hey Luke. Long time fan who never realized that the L&L books that I've been buying (and occasionally cribbing from) were you. Great job with all of them.
Like you, I've been DM'ing since 2nd Ed and those friggin packs.
Anyway, right now I'm running a 5 person online game of ShadowRun with the idea that I'd be teaching the players as well as anyone who decided to watch. Wanted to know if you'd be willing to pop in once or twice to play an evil NPC. Tbh, not even sure if my players know who you are, but that's the fun of it. Random guy playing an NPC...wth?
If you are into it, or not, please just drop me a line. I won't plug my stream here, that just looks like I'm begging ;) Either way, still gonna keep watching and buying cuz you're cool and your work is outstanding.
For our game, my wife and I host. We have it set up so people can show up anytime after 12. Then we talk and hang out. Then go to the table at 1:30 and by about 2 we are playing.
Usually take dinner break either during travel montages or just after initiative if delivery times and cooking allows. For a vtt I've been experimenting with above vtt it works with ddb and uses either websourced maps or RUclips made animated maps.
I simply game up on making a map for the adventurer's guild on one of my games... Totally agree on the "buy premade or someone to do it for u".
I've done the typing thing. One on one for a side quest. Over the course of the week on lunch breaks and such.
I'll be honest my online game that has had 10 people consistently has been a ton of fun!
I agree with roll20's dynamic lighting. I haven't used it, but I've played in a game with that used. It causes problems and slows up the game.
I've tried using it but it never works right. I think that you need special maps to have the walls stop dynamic lighting.
Few of my players like pizza so the pizza break is the DM stuffing his mouth with pizza. I was recently on one of your streams and got some great help on which VTT to use. I've found roll20 being the cheapest and easiest. My main issue is adding the tokens required for my player's immersion. It just isn't letting me
I've primarily played online. I think I've played twice in person ever... I personally prefer online play in some respects. In online play I can get up from the table in the middle of combat, right after my turn, and go to the bathroom or get a snack. I take my wireless headset with me, so I can still be looped in on what is happening in game. My personal desk chair is also typically more comfortable than whatever would be available on site for an in person game, thereby facilitating longer gaming sessions. At the start of the pandemic, my main D&D group went from weekly 10hr sessions, to twice weekly 10hr sessions for nearly two months. But I think it's fair to say that some more extroverted personalities probably prefer the social high of face to face interactions, where as more introverted personalities are less naturally given to that medium.
I've had the luxury of having players that I used to game with in person and we're stuck online for last year and probably the next one. We just use physical dice, video chat, and I'll use presenter view and a Google drawing with tokens of their characters. It's working because I trust their roles. You can tell because they groan and just to say when they roll the two or that nat one. If you have players that you can trust and will lean into the failures instead of trying to fudge, it works out great. "Hey, we can not fudge, or we can all spend some time learning fantasy grounds and all chip head together for content packs for the books we all already bought". Zero-fudge pact it is
😂
"Use fog of war"
You're GAH-DAMN RIGHT!
I prefer in person games, but covid put an end to it for the moment. We use Discord for voice and roll 20 or foundry vtt mainly now. I try and spice it up with sound effects, music and with my web cam.
As the Game Master for my group I would prefer the guys back around the table, but I don't have the room for the now 6 players in the game.
The Dynamic Lighting in Foundry VTT works perfectly, but I still prefer to use the Simple Fog of War instead, just easier to control and is much less work. And yes Roll20's Dynamic Lighting Sucks, that's why I left and switched to Foundry VTT, which by the way is way better and is more economical.
Sometimes I prefer to type in an online game - mainly because it means I can actually finish my sentence without being interrupted, and I can add some roleplaying descriptive text that might be hard to convey with just my voice.
The only all-online game I played, the DM used a program called Maptool or Maptools.
The program worked great for a VTT, though we had to use a separate voice chat program, and neither had a dice roller built in. Fortunately, we were all non-cheaters.