The Ultimate Gliding, Soaring & Flying Simulator
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2022
- The ultimate flight simulator? Oh yes. Check it out at:
www.justsoaring.com
The simulator software used is Condor:
www.condorsoaring.com
Simulators are ideal for integration into your training programme, to reduce costs for your students. If the big airlines do it, why not glider pilots also?
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You can either add a VR headset, or use a head-tracker. Personally, I prefer the head-tracker (like the TrackIR5) as it's easier to see your keyboard when you need it. Aside from circuit practice and being able to keep adjusting your reference point picture, it's quite helpful for practicing lookout, particularly when circling with other gliders (need to be networked and flying together with other folks, such as in contests). So, being able to look around in any direction is pretty key to practice. Personally, it's a great tool to maintain some currency in winter.
Agree on the head tracker! can use IR track pro or open source with an old iPhone or smart phone with a camera...
Once you adapt to it (which is pretty quick for most), Flying without at least Track IR feels so limiting it’s uncomfortable! What a huge difference. Add an ultra wide display also for an even better experience w/o the multi screen bezel breaks
@@Jerfish1 how does it work with trackIR? u look at the border of screen and it moves?
(The VR headset I use is the Pimax 5K+, the massive 200° fov is really good for simulators as you maintain your peripheral view even whilst looking forward)
ALSO one super key thing i don't see talked about a lot here... and Tim did touch on it in the video.. is if you are relatively new XC pilot , using the rig for simulated XC is super super helpful.. you can mount a smart phone flight computer (XC/TopHat / Oudie) , with your handouts, all that.. the last thing you want to do is try to learn your flight computer interface in the air... you can sim all that stuff safely on the ground ... and get into the flow of selecting an alternate airport, cycling through your screens, tweaking your config...
xcsoar went ok with condor, but not had any joy with navitar or xctrack yet. One doesn't like condor's lack of gps timestamps, and the other wants to talk bluetooth and not tcp/ip directly.
I am a happy owner of this great rig. In using now for about 8 month. Very stable product. Flying mostly every day....now switching from track ir 5 to VR Quest 2. Absolutely not compare...VR is much more realistic...only negativ is a little less solution. All stuff as cotasa (Horizon) or flying Software as xcsoar or lk8000 are possible in VR. Also the Service from Mitch the owner of justsoaring is excellent. I am very proud of it
Hey that's an awesome testimonial, glad you love it!
@@PureGlide yes i did . I am also an flight instructor. Its cool for education in Clubs too..helps.
The Condor gliding simulator is useful and can definitely be recommended for learning and training purposes. It can save a lot of time and money. I used it as an additional opportunity for flying during my flight training. I was able, for instance, to enter and center thermals pretty decently right from the beginning in real-life gliding due to extensive training during the winter after my first summer of glider training. However, there are some caveats about using a simulator I would like to mention.
The most important aspect to me seems not to confuse the simulator with a video game. It never should be used as a game but as a serious training tool. This means
- don't fly the simulator without any previous instructions. I would never use it for a complete beginner without any real flight training and hands-on experience with a real-world glider.
- follow the real-life safety procedures, and complete checklists (even if it sounds silly to check if you are correctly strapped in and the canopy is closed).
- don't do things you would not do in real life while flying a glider (e.g. dangerous flight maneuvers, neglecting rules, deliberately crashing a glider, drinking alcohol during flight, etc.)
Why? As we all know, piloting an airplane is not a game. If you mess with safety and security procedures in a simulator it might easily happen in real life as well. And there, you can't abort and restart your flight if things go badly. If you develop sloppy behavior and attitude at "chair flying" you might do the same in the real glider ...
Some people find my approach to be too puristic, but I strongly advocate the professional and responsible use of flight simulators.
Great tips, thanks you!
i use condor as a game for now... did a 500km task just today... i think there are alot of pilots in condor that have glider license doing way more risky stuff or actually train risky maneuvers so they can recover from a bad turn... i myself would never do the 500km task like i did in the sim... going down to 1100 with plenty thermals... i rather would do something like MC 1-2 and take thermals according to situation... many clouds ahead? then skip some condor v3 is in the making wich allows for convergence... also i would likely not race irl... rather take scenic flights in the alps....
I'm an early solo pilot now, and found the Condor with a G2 and a bit of cludging around with peripherals was really helpful in getting used to various sight pictures, for circuits and speed settings at home. My understanding is that condor does not play nice with a wraparound/projected display and takes quite a bit of finessing to get a decent sight picture however, so a single monitor with something like a TrackIr may be a better option for most people.
I do actually have a bone to pick with Tim, as I was going to buy a new motorbike this year and have already spent that money getting back into gliding....
Haha glad I can help :)
@@PureGlide my local Triumph dealer begs to differ...
a fair assessment yes... I fly with a 40" monitor and head tracker , but triple also works pretty good ..
That’s a great looking simulator platform.
Last June, I started using Condor with an Oculus Rift VR headset. This combination allowed total immersion (minus the tactile) experience of sailplane flying. I could well imagine that this platform would greatly enhance that experience.
BTW, on a more personal note: I just purchased a Standard Austria SH-1 as my first sailplane. Thanks to watching gliding channels like yours, I rekindled my love of gliding after a 40 year hiatus!
Cheers for that! And glad you're back into it :)
I got an Oculus Quest 2 purely for Condor2, and it's a far superior experience to having a flat monitor. Condor maps usually really skimp on ground and building detail, and as a result, the experience is really smooth and doesn't require ridiculous computer hardware.
Your club should get a Quest 2 in no small part so you can teach students to do their lookouts and landings properly. As you demonstrated here, it's harder to keep track of the position of the runway on base with the flat screen looking straight ahead.
Yay! Now you can fly at midnight! (Like you just did there). 😃
Very nice Sim. Just Soaring did a great job. 👍
Yes! haha it was only 8:30pm. Winter is nearly here...
A cup holder for those simulator "hold my beer" moments. I guess it should be a tray behind the seat for the spectators really, but you can have both.
Haha you're so right, really it should have a built in grandstand
Highly recommend the Oculus Quest 2 VR headset for knocking out circuits. The situational awareness and estimation of angles for circuit setup is excellent.
Yeah I would be keen to try one!
@@PureGlide It takes a bit of messing about to set up and appears to vary a fair bit according to the particular hardware in use. The essential extras are a good headband to transfer the weight away from the face and to the forehead ( the original is crap ) and prescription lens inserts if you have ageing eyeballs. I use an i7/GPU laptop with a MS FF2 joystick which makes the system very compact & quite portable particularly with the new RF link functionality. I am currently setting up the XSoar app to run as a separate pinned app located within the Condor render. I'm also designing a macro keypad arrangement to add touch based additional controls as the goggles limit access to the outside world. Originally, back at the turn of the century ;-) , I built a head tracker to get around the situational awareness issue for circuit training and cable break procedures but the VR goggles just totally blow it away. All this to, one day, get back across the ditch and fly Omarama for real, not to mention pull up a chair at the Pink Glider Cafe ;-) ;-)
I imagine it would be amazing to use this with a VR Headset. This would also get rid of the not being able to look to the sides issue and make the whole experience even more immersive.
Yeah exactly right, I would like to try it!
@@PureGlide the Oculus Quest 2 is not that expensive and can be connected to the computer and has a great resolution too. I don't know whether Condor is VR capable though, but I'd be surprised if that's not the case.
I used a G@ and found really useful for circuit sight picture etc..
@@hpk31 I use the quest 2 for condor and it works great!
Condor 2 is VR capable with Oculus as of the May 2021 update. It has native mode support for VR in the Condor 2 settings. While I tried launching Condor 2 directly without Oculus software running it did not go well so I settled on loading the Oculus home screen, then launch Condor 2 from there and all is well.
The view is quite stunning in VR. I think as a training aid VR headsets are definitely the way to go. The same main view displays on the monitor as with the headset so an instructor can see the same sight picture as the pilot does.
1st like from RSA enjoy your winter🤣
Thanks mate!
I'm continually blown away by what computers and simulators can do nowadays compared to when I was learning to fly. Graphics are so real and everything can be so immersive... crashes look awesome and a helluva lot cheaper than in real life! 😆
Yeah I wonder if the Microsoft flight sim has an ag spraying add on?!
@@PureGlide Yes, there is actually >>
ruclips.net/video/dt-pIb0LybA/видео.html
@@PureGlide LOL
When I first got Condor 2 I had only one very large screen. Pattern work with rigid 90 degree (or else) turns were a PITA. Two 45 degree turns works one hell of a lot better. I added two monitors and later, an Oculus Quest. It took a few youtube videos but I figured out how to set up my views on the three monitors and it was well worth the extra money.
Russell Holtz has two training packages for Condor 2 available for either the Duo Discus or the ASK-21. They will only work on those two aircraft and both aircraft must be purchased separately for Condor 2 basic to run the package. I've flown most of the lessons in the ASK-21 version and I think they're well worth the price.
Finally, while over my budget, they had me at the cup holder. Gives you a place to put your beer while training.
Interesting thanks
Very cool... And there's another use for it: getting us over that 7-8 month long period we call "winter"! 🥶 - Greetings from Finnish Lapland! 👍😎
Yes exactly! Cheers
Our club has a VR headset, really neat! I use a Ultrawide monitor at home but will get a headset or head tracker as it makes it much easier to see when your under a cloud and like you mentioned easier to position in the circuit.
Yeah being able to look up at clouds is critical! Good point, cheers
yes on the head tracker! and bigger monitor also good :)
Condor's not too taxing an engine even for VR. I run it on a Zephyrus G14 from last year (NVidia 3060 laptop). Doesn't drop below 60Hz on a Quest 2, which is plenty for soaring without nausea. It's been great to be able to race with my Dad most weekends from 3000 miles away, especially during covid lockdowns!
Good to know, cheers!
if you central mount the TV, and put the stand for it closer than the rudder pedals (legs round it), or build this out as a desk type setup, you can bring that monitor much closer. Add in trackIR and you'll be golden. No need for multiple monitors imho.
That looks a niiiice gadget!
Add a TrackIR (or cheaper brandless alternatives) and your brain will eventually fully immerse in flying mode. You don't get the proper real life height and depth perceptions but I find it vital for the formation flight and pattern training.
Excelente!! Export to Argentina
Hi. Thanks for the review. Always love your videos! About the visuals (and I have decades of experience doing this stuff), there is a cheaper and very effective solution called Delan Clip. It is a clip you glue to a headset or cap that has a couple of red LED infrared LEDs on it. It has a PS3 camera with a IR filter on it. It will track your head movements and translates that to a virtual head movement in the sim. It requires a bit of getting used to but after 1 or 2 hours becomes second nature. Delan Clip ! Look it up and never look back.
I think sims have helped my gliding. I use a home-built head tracker and an ultrawide monitor and it's great. I'm building my own rig to match as much of this as possible, but even on a PC with a regular joystick the head tracker is a very solid investment and really helps.
I used X-Plane 11 a lot, it has one enormous advantage: I can fly from my home field. The intuition about the landscape I developed (where's the airfield from here, what direction am I flying now?) was totally transferable. So even though Condor has a better flight model and more gliders, X-Plane's graphics and coverage are excellent for this.
Thanks for sharing, cheers
depending where u from they have plenty maps to download... u could also make your own landscape :)
Now you need to pair this with a set of VR goggles like a Quest 2 or G2. It will blow you away if you haven't tried this yet.
Not yet! keen to try
Looks awesome, but without a force feedback stick aren’t you missing crucial feeling in the sim you would get in a real glider?
I’ve never been in a glider, what kind of feeling, if any, would you feel in a real glider, like detecting lift and what not?
Rope Break Drills -- at lowest altitudes! Make sure the student has the reactions correctly "programmed" into the gray matter before practising in the glider. Helps extend the Instructor's Life Expectancy! ;-)
The gear being the wrong way can be easily solved. Just boot up the whole game with gear lever set in the opposite direction to however you have been doing previously.
Thanks! it's so obvious now you say it lol
@@PureGlide No worries! We also spent many hours working the gear lever the wrong way at our club before realising what to do lol.
Love the channel by the way. Has been of great interest to me as an early ish solo glider pilot in the UK hoping to start cross country flying this year. Keep it up 👍
It has to do with air launch versus tow ... if you air launch, then just cycle the gear on the sim .. job done !
Hey everybody! thanks for the comments... a LOT of this stuff is address on our FAQ's over on JustSoaring.com if interested to know more, understand - just pop over and scroll through. Thanks! Just Soaring
I'd like to see/create something similar but:
- built to fit an Ikea POÄNG armchair, as these are cheap and comfortable and a bit more similar posture to a glider seat
- with a mechanical spring trim control, such that when you apply trim you physically change the stick's physical neutral position, rather than electronically alter the elevator angle at the stick's centre position
- (maybe) very basic control loading - airspeed increases, elevators get a bit heavier
not a bad idea re the POANG chair!
does is come with a parachute?
Great video! I am a long time PPL that never had any interest what so ever in soaring until Microsoft released an update that included gliders. Frankly, I tried them on a whim & can honestly say I have never had anything captivate me so completely or so quickly. So much so that I plan to take some lessons in the spring & get my glider endorsement.
In this video you referenced the superior graphics of MSFS while testing Condor2. Any chance you could make a video comparing & contrasting the 2 simulators? Great graphics are all well & good but, the proof is as they say in the pudding. I (and I am sure many others like me) would love to see these 2 sims rates head to head in flight model (how realistic do the gliders fly) weather, thermal & ridge soaring by an accomplished glider pilot.
Cheers!
Awesome to hear! I haven’t got MSFS unfortunately so just going by what I’ve seen online
msfs announced to work on gliders dunno if its done allready but also condor3 is in the makeing it might not be able to compete with msfs in graphics but surely will topple any advancement in flying of msfs
You should use VR. VR makes a big difference for sailing simulation, first because it's incredibly immersive, but also because it gives you a sense of scale a screen does not give you. Many things in gliding requires you to estimate angles, sizes, distances, you can train for that.
The Oculus is not too expensive, but you need a strong PC to constantly get the required frame per seconds (90). Lags and jittering are unbearable in VR.
Yeah would be nice!
I used Condor extensively during my early glider training, and it had one standout feature that is a killer!!
In comparison to a real glider, the mechanics of flying for flight training are for the most part pretty awful in Condor. You get to waggle the controls in the right direction, but to some extent that's about it. I've never done a winch launch in real life, but always do winch launch in Condor, because the aero-tow feels so unrealistic, and I can get the launch out of the way. Thermalling is so-so, but having a mental connection between the mechanics of flying, associating that with the vario sound and judging where and how big the thermal is, will benefit later flying.
Okay, so I've just spent an entire paragraph bagging Condor and flight simulators, but should you get one - absolutely, they are fantastic at one aspect of simulation.
When it comes to flying a many-hours cross country flight, everything you have to do mentally is almost identical in the simulator to flying in real life. All of the calculations, planning, deciding how fast to fly, when and how to scratch - all of these are so close to real life, that if you get it right in Condor, you will absolutely get it right in real life.
When I started on Condor I couldn't complete tasks, kept landing out, flew the wings off the glider, basically made every mistake I could. With practice it got better! I had one 100km triangle that I flew about 15 times, in different configurations, different aircraft, always with the same weather conditions, and activating the ghost planes of past me. I went back to that flight about 18 months later and could not match my best performance of those earlier flights.
Something that happened in Condor is that I got better at cross country flying, a lot better!! I basically honed my cross country skills in the simulator. What did that translate to in real life:
- My logbook to date is 465 hours of flying in 277 flights.
- I went solo on flight 36 - so very average, as I'm not the most physically coordinated person.
- Flight 58 was my first solo in a single seater - my own Astir. (Prior solos were in the club trainer).
- Flight 74 was my first cross country (50km out and back). In that flight I also did my Silver C. 5 hours, 1000m gain.
- Flight 87 was an 150km declared FAI triangle.
- Flight 93 was 288km (an easter regatta task).
- Flight 124 was a 300km declared FAI.
- Flight 173 was a 515km task - still in the Astir! (Still my longest flight, and prior to this flight I had 140 flight hours).
I've never outlanded in a paddock, always being able to scratch my way to an airport so I could get an aerotow retrieve home. Maybe I wasn't trying hard enough, but I think what really happened is that Condor taught me resilience as a pilot, planning to know my alternates, and strategizing my way through the sky.
I did the Red Bull 1000km cross-the-alps tasks in Condor. It took four attempts to complete, with the final successful flight taking over 7 hours. In all, that meant it took almost 20 hours of flying - and it's not the joystick waving stuff that's being practiced, but the mental side of flying.
The craziest Condor flight I flew was a back and forth flight out of Omerama. I completed the 750km flight in 3 hours. That's right, the entire flight was basically flown at VNE, the wings just short of shuddering and falling off the whole way.
Condor is fantastic! Not for learning to fly physically, but for learning how to fly mentally! It is by far the cheapest cross-country training that a pilot can do!
Cheers!
EXACTLY! Cheers!!!!
"Brrm brm brm brm I'm a digger" 😂
Glad you liked that haha
This Condor 2 is expensive - and maps and gliders for it are expensive; but I bought the basic sim with its included gliders and I'm pretty impressed. The differences between the gliders seem realistic; differences in adverse yaw, differences in rudder authority etc. Flying a winch launch with such a tiny window of view as a screen is bloody hard! Probably a lot better in VR.
In short - a bloody good buy and I'm impressed but I don't like the shortage of maps/areas and I don't like the prices of additional planes. Looks like it's Slovenia for now; nowhere familiar available apart from Innsbruck. Let's hope they do Sisteron (S France), and the UK sometime soon!
Hi yeah you can add on landscapes relatively easily for free? Only extra planes cost money
@@PureGlide I'll look again... Only place I could find was charging quite a bit for them. Thanks!
Another alternative to a bunch of screens is just vr headset!
Yip!
have Condor 2... VR headset is amazingly immersive but I can only last 1 hour with it on
Yeah it’s hard to see how the meta verse is going to work when you need it on all day!!
Condor should make a two-string addon for you :)
The thought crossed my mind!! haha
Can you adjust the rudder pedals, forward and back, in a real glider...?
Sure can! They almost all have rudder adjustments. Many also have seat adjustment, so you can get yourself comfy
It's pretty 'genuis' when the thumbnail for a youtube video has only a single word and still manages to have a spelling mistake.
Lol 😂 you’re the first person to notice! Luckily I can fix that :) thanks for letting me know!!
What was, roughly, the landed price of this sim and will it run on an Xbox platform?
I suspect a bigger screen would allow for more ‘immersion’ but still looks like a lot of fun.
Price on their website www.justsoaring.com I guess shipping will be about $500
Yeah... a 40" screen with head tracker is more than enough....
The only improvement I can see that has not already been mentioned would be to have three large 4K monitors. An RTX 3090 graphics card would be required and possibly a more powerful power supply. VR headset are still not good enough for flying because the resolution is poor compared to a 4K monitor. This makes reading the instruments difficult to impossible.
Yeah agreed, that would be very nice!
I notice trimming is a consistent pain with most sims. That final approach felt steep just before touch down (not the slipping part) is that normal?
Hi no that was me too high, so had to use full air brake AND side slip to get down fast... Ideally we would use half air brake.
Trim is really dependent on the glider in Condor... if it has a "trigger trim", you can set our hat switch to just press (center) and it will retrim the glider.. if like a K21, then use the up/down on hat switch .. . trim percentage displays on the screen
@@justsoaring1129 Ah cool. Sorry should have clarified that wasn't a criticism of your Sim gear just noticed that's where a lot of Sim software feels a little different to real life
I’m thinking about getting one sometime. I’m new glider student. Is it worth it to practice??
Yeah it is useful to practice circuits for example,, but you can probably just get away with a laptop and joystick. But go the whole hog if you're keen to use it for other flying apps or glider racing!
@@PureGlide oh, so you can use It for other flying apps or other types of flying too? Didn’t know that. Well that sheds light on some things. I was debating on just doing the laptop 💻 joystick 🕹 thing, but if I can do much more with it, then why not.
Also, what is some good advice and tips to pass on to a new glider student? Originally, My main goal was to get my powered ppl, but just as I was starting lessons, then I learned about gliders and heard it’s a better way to go..at least to get started. But maybe even better too for long term (or in lieu of)since it also seems more fun and challenging. It’s also cheaper to get into for us middle class. lol. Bcz The thing bothering me about powered was the long term worth. I mean yeah it’s still hella cool to go fly in any acft (point A to B), or take weekend trips cross country; but it’s super expensive to do that a lot! So, either you will go broke or suffer flight hours and skills perishing. But it seems glider clubs kind of fill that gap.
That issue with the reversed gear lever… frustratingly Condor has no "gear up" and "gear down" commands, only "toggle gear". So when you move the gear lever in either direction it sends "toggle gear", and there's a 50% chance it's moved in the correct direction. There's also no way I've found for external software to determine if the gear's up or down, unfortunately. Condor 2 is great but it's designed as a desktop multiplayer racing game and misses a lot of little features that'd make it really soar for simpits and training.
Good to know, cheers
@@PureGlide It does work OK if you always remember to put the gear handle down before starting a flight on the ground, and up before starting a flight in the air… just a little bit of a rough edge there!
Easy solve... usually this happens when you do an "in air launch" as opposed to tow ... in our rig, you just click the little toggle switch that the mechanical slide activates.. and it cycles... job done!
It’s like you said , you don’t get the feel of the trim and I suspect you will lose other inputs like sound and your pupil honking up in a rough thermal for example.
I can still smack them in the back of the head though so that's good
Rioy
Whoops finger trouble! I’m tall like you and thinking of learning to glide in my retirement after a career in powered flight. Is cockpit room a problem for us tall guys? Any other advice for someone in my situation much appreciated.
@@garyclarke7488 these gliders will accommodate a tall pilot , no problem.
I think the biggest downside of using a sim too much during basic training is that it really stops them developing a proper lookout for other traffic, as there is no other traffic in the sim when in singleplayer. I wish they would include this in Condor 3.
Would love to see a video of the sim being used to give actual instruction to a novice pilot
Yeah great point!
It is used a lot for novice pilots.... me for example.. had trouble following on tow, and ground handling... mashing in enough rudder on a crosswind take off or landing.. avoiding PIO situations.. pattern work... super helped me! and didn't cost 100 bucks a try !
Not a cup holder. A beer holder :)
Perfect for those 'hold my beer' moments
reverb G2 HMD
An RTX 3070 ti should handle 3 screens and they're not too pricey at this stage
Good stuff, cheers
In some of your past videos you critiqued other's less than perfect landings. I think it would be instructional and entertaining if you would get with fellow RUclipsr, 'XJET' and review some of their 'landings'.
Yeah I just need to land badly at Tokoroa!
To be honest... 1900$ for a frame, seat, joystick, pedals and some other control elements seems heavily overpriced to me.
Who's the "Genuis" that can't spell the word "Genius" in this video's thumbnail?!?!
Definitely no geniuses around here
He really wants to be a digger not a pilot
Sure do :)
@@PureGlide Hey there’s always time to switch 🤣. But please don’t, love what u do. Keep it up man 👍
Actually, it's a terrible simulator. It claims to have an accurate flight model and to an extent that is true. But it is not top notch. It's too twitchy and moves around even when you set zero wind. But that aside, the graphics are buried in the 1990s. The scenery, runways and airfields are primitive. The tow cable is too short. The trim is not accurate. A lot of glider pilots think it is good because they have little experience of other simulators which require a little more work and installation of 3rd party apps to work well. Condor has not been properly updated for years. It is only a matter of a short time when MSFS and even x plane will far surpass what Condor offers.