Regarding the authors being read as the Web, in one of the Q&As both Johnny and Alex were asked what entity they'd be aligned with, and they both said that the entirety of Rusty Quill would be with the Web. They ABSOLUTELY understand those parallels.
Please keep making these! There is a terrible deprivation of magnus video essays in the world, even though there's so much to analyze. I really like your interpretation of the Web as the writers, it's something I never considered before
@@micahconnor8954 Thank you! I really enjoy making them and absolutely concur that there need to be more TMA video essays with how much there is to explore in that series, so I'm doing my part to contribute to it.
I'm writing my own TMA fic now, and as I'm manipulating events so that the Web loses badly, I realized I'm basically just a bigger Web myself. It's definitely fun to be the one pulling the strings! But for good, not evil.
I know I'm super late, but it's actually really interesting that the Web wanted to expand to the multiverse considering that the spider in the theatre domain said that they *didn't* want the world to end or to be there...makes you think if that was just that spider's wishes, or if the Web in general wasn't committed to the fearpocalypse
She needed the Fearpocalypse to set off her plan to escape, so she was definitely committed to making it happen, but that doesn't mean she liked it. It's just a means to an end.
you are the best for making this series. TMA deserves more video essays with how in depth its world and story-telling is. also you should do The Spiral next...! ( i am a Michael and Helen enjoyer ) Helen, in general, as a narrative foil to Jon contrasting the humanity of a fear avatar is such a fascinating thing to watch unfold in the later seasons of the podcast. You could do videos on analyzing avatars and side characters as a series in its own with how in depth the literary themes go
Thank you, I'm enjoying making it! TMA has an amazing world that's very well built and I feel it's very slept on in the video essay department so I thought "screw it, I'll be the change I want to see in the world" and here we are. As a fellow Distortion enjoyer, the Spiral is coming very soon. I'm mostly doing them in the order of "plot relevance," however that can be defined, but yes, that means that the Spiral will be coming down the line shortly. I'm especially excited to talk about Helen's literary role as a foil to Jon, as you mentioned. As for a series on specific avatars and side characters, I may do that when I'm finished, although I imagine I'll be a bit Magnus'd out by the end of these 15! In other words, maybe, it depends on if I feel I can add anything to what's already been said and if I have the energy to do another dive back into TMA.
I know this isn't the point of the video but I really liked the art! The reader and author dynamic being represented by the eye and web is so cool and I hadn't thought about it like that before
To add to the question of the Web's free will, the Spider in that theatre domain itself says that it can no more resist the pulling of their strings than the individual can resist being pulled. It has a nature it didn't choose for itself, which is why The Web couldn't just tell the other fears to stop goofing around and forge a group ritual. It *had to* manipulate it into happening. The Web is pulled along by its own strings in the same way any other creature is, which ties in with Kane's message to John about how goofy the idea of "autonomy" is in a world where people are both subject and object. If you are bound in yourself, is that its own kind of freedom?
Absolutely. In fact, the moment where the Spider speaks directly to Francis in the theatre, making reference to the Eye and Jon in the audience, is what made me want to explore that idea in the first place. The Web may seem like it's in control, but really the strings of fate are guiding it along just as much as any of its puppets. It's a really curious idea, and one I sort of hope they go into more for The Magnus Protocol. Thanks for giving your thoughts!
@Afton G. Kier Thanks for your response!! And yeah, what I like most about the Web is that it's sapient and a reality bender on the level of a deity, and yet it never once says that *it* is free of manipulation. And I think what would scare me most as an Avatar of the Web is the fact that even the Spinner of Webs is itself caught in a web. And of course, the metaphorical web that the Mother is caught in would be the words of the Writer. All this to say that, in my personal opinion, I think the Web has 4th wall-breaking knowledge. I think it *knows* that it is in a narratively-lower dimension than ours. And I think the whole idea of leaving the "Magnus Archives" world is supposed to mean that the Web (and other fears) is entering other layers of fiction as well. Or showing up in other 'stories", basically. It will always be caught in someone else's web, but now it's gone beyond Johnny's web, outside of Johnny's control. And now that there's fanfiction of the Fear Entities... well, it's not wrong, is it?
So I am wayyy late to the party but I want to share something: I'm a big fan of Louise Bourgeois, an artist that makes giant spider sculptures, so large that her exhibitions have trouble finding rooms. She also associates spiders with motherhood and womanhood in general, just like the various names this entity has. I find it very interesting how this is the most... feminine-coded (?) of all the powers. After all, what power did women have for centuries when we couldn't even vote besides manipulating the husbands we were forced to marry, creating support networks, weaving tiny strings throughout society that would eventually give us equal rights.
I just realized. Annabelle Cane's experiment was shortly after Trevor killed that Web Avatar. Annabelle had the same "hollowed out" look during her transformation, so I think the web made her as a replacement.
not entirely web, but also the vampires trevor hunts definitely seem to have some relation to it. they really dont seem too much like hunt in their own methods, and they could possibly be flesh, but they dont seem to really align to one entity entirely like some monsters. hard to pin down the "making people understand things without speaking" without a little bit of web-like mind manipulation
my theory about vampires is that they ARE hunt, in that they exist *to be hunted*, traumatizing and getting killed by people in order to spark the thrill of the hunt in them
Addition is most overtly tied to Web in the form of influence and compulsion, but Daisy and the other Hunters are addicts as well. They are driven to chase the high, doing everything they can to prolong the Hunt.
Just found you today via recommendations when I was relistening to DaughtersofProsperos songs on the fears, specifically her song on the Hunt (do check those out they are great) I'm wanting to kinda get into the mindset of playing the Web, as I just joined an origins mod Minecraft server as an arachnid, and while I intend to play the positives of spiders in my character, I am drawn to also indulge in the grand works of The Mother of Puppets. I know for sure I shall have a giant rift in my cave base now. And perhaps I should orchestrate a grand machination such that all the players end the season there.
Good to hear that you're enjoying the videos! As for the Daughters of Prospero, I have actually listened through them. The End's song, Patience, in particular is, I think, amazing. Definitely gets the feeling of creeping existential hopelessness across!
Going back and relistening to them now. I forgot how good Arcane Knots and Knock-a-Door Fun are, but I still think nothing beats the last two lines of Patience. "Death does not care with whom you do or don't align. The End never hungers. To have life marks you mine."
@@FinalFantasmagorie favs for me have to be the Hunt, The Flesh and The Burried's songs. Tbh I so want her to do like a theater production of all of the songs a la Greek theater with masks and everything
Your microphone is quite good, but you might want to use sound compression to make the audio not get louder and quieter as you lean in to the microphone
The plot power, honestly i think one avenue of web that was never utilized but would be perfect fit is religious angle, eye to for that matter. Why? For eye its easy. In monotheism God is often supposed to be all-knowing and i don't think i need to say more. As for Web, well there is idea of entity that has total control and everything that ever happened is part of some greater plan... Is it Gods or Webs Description? Of all powers to potentially have religious connotations I think Web is one of strongest contenders.
I'm a bit confused as to why the Web didn't t just escape into another reality alone. Why did it need to pull the other fears with it? Does the Web need all the other fears somehow?
During Jonah/Jon's MAG 160 speech, and at several other points throughout Season Five, it's either outright stated or heavily implied that the Fears are all divisions of some greater force and, as a result, are tied to each other, which is the reason that only Jonah's ritual worked: no one else had tried to bring through ALL of the Fears. This means that, if the Web had wanted to escape, it likely would have had to take the other Entities with it, in the same way that Jonah Magnus dragged all of the other Entities through to his world with the Eye from whatever space they existed in before. It's not ever specifically stated that that's the Web's reasoning, of course, but that's what I gathered from the surrounding context.
As the tapes returned for the epilogue, I was thinking that the wider multiverse/realities aspect of the plot was a lie constructed by the web. What happens after they escape may be unknowable from our reality and the web is our only source of information. Even the all knowing eye didn’t seem to know, as it understands nothing and could have been deceived by the web. The point being to leave the web as the only major fear with any power on earth. If it turns out the fears do spread successfully, the web benefits. If the fears perish, the web benefits. If the fears fail but return or reemerge anyway, the web is still dominant as the others have to restart from scratch. The web won.
Does he? The only thing I can think of is his binding of the NotThem to the Web Table, but, other than that, Dekker seems to act primarily as a solitary agent, not falling to any power. While it's possible he has Web ties, we simply don't know enough about what exactly he did to the NotThem or what the Table does to say that it's not simply the Table's power at work there, and I'd argue that the rest of his actions would contradict the idea that he serves any one power. Still, I think that it is probably best to mention that he was the one who used the Table the one and only time we saw it actively "entrap" something. And don't worry, Dekker will CERTAINLY be back when I talk about the Extinction.
Hm, so, relistening to MAG 78, his gaunt appearance is slightly reminiscent of Annabelle's description and you could make an argument that the "force" in his voice is a form of compulsion, as Lawrence never even considers not following his commands, but that seems to me to be more a combination of Dekker's stern nature and the narrator's weakened mental state. He also seems to intentionally keep Lawrence from being drawn into the table, which would seem to oppose the Web in action. In short, I don't think he's Web aligned, but there's just enough evidence here to make some argument for it.
@@FinalFantasmagorie I find episode 113 to be far more telling of Dekker connection. He doesn't seem to have much of a need for sleep, manipulates people by fuelling theirs addictions and spend several days just sitting in front of a house, like a spider, until his target Mr. Goth emerged from it. I couldn't see how this man isn't connected to the spider in a similar way to Gerard Keay to the eye.
I honestly hate the spider. It's the most obtuse entity. It's only a singular entity for aesthetic reasons. Arachnophobia has nothing to do with being manipulation. Arachnophobia should belong to the corruption, and manipulation can stand as its own fear
While I do agree that Spiders could fit into The Corruption, I do feel like they fit better with The Web than The Corruption. The thing is with The Corruption is that it has a certain grossness to its identity. It is filth and rot and that which squirms and burrows. Sure, spiders are small animals similar to insects and flies and such which The Corruption does have, but people don't generally find spiders gross. Meanwhile, spiders fit into The Web's manipulation, particularly with figurative language. There's a lot of figurative language about manipulaturs "pulling the strings" and building a "web of deception" and the whole "being caught in the web". Plus, it fits better from a developmental sense. Pretty much all of the Entities have a physical thing to them. The obvious ones are Entities such as The Vast, The Buried, and The Dark, very large things and wide open spaces, dirt and claustrophobic spaces, and the dark itself. Others have more physical symbols, such as The Eye, The Desolation, and The Lonely, with eyes, fire, and fog. Sure, The Web could have strings, but that's already so close to spiders already that it makes sense to have Spiders be the sort of physical thing of The Web. It gives an overall physical theme that makes it easier to see, especially considering The Web is one of the most prominent Entities in The Magnus Archives.
Regarding the authors being read as the Web, in one of the Q&As both Johnny and Alex were asked what entity they'd be aligned with, and they both said that the entirety of Rusty Quill would be with the Web. They ABSOLUTELY understand those parallels.
Thanks for adding that! I'll be honest, I totally forgot about that while writing this script, so it's really good that you brought it up here.
The End is also self-aware. TMA seems to tie consciousness directly to having a concept of linear time
Please keep making these! There is a terrible deprivation of magnus video essays in the world, even though there's so much to analyze. I really like your interpretation of the Web as the writers, it's something I never considered before
oh and also your drawing of annabelle is really good
@@micahconnor8954 Thank you! I really enjoy making them and absolutely concur that there need to be more TMA video essays with how much there is to explore in that series, so I'm doing my part to contribute to it.
I'm writing my own TMA fic now, and as I'm manipulating events so that the Web loses badly, I realized I'm basically just a bigger Web myself. It's definitely fun to be the one pulling the strings! But for good, not evil.
I know I'm super late, but it's actually really interesting that the Web wanted to expand to the multiverse considering that the spider in the theatre domain said that they *didn't* want the world to end or to be there...makes you think if that was just that spider's wishes, or if the Web in general wasn't committed to the fearpocalypse
She needed the Fearpocalypse to set off her plan to escape, so she was definitely committed to making it happen, but that doesn't mean she liked it. It's just a means to an end.
My god your annabelle Caine design is sooo beautiful
I told you there'd be more Annabelle Cane in the future, it just took me half a year to get there!
😂 Well worth the wait, I hadn't forgotten!
you are the best for making this series. TMA deserves more video essays with how in depth its world and story-telling is.
also you should do The Spiral next...! ( i am a Michael and Helen enjoyer ) Helen, in general, as a narrative foil to Jon contrasting the humanity of a fear avatar is such a fascinating thing to watch unfold in the later seasons of the podcast. You could do videos on analyzing avatars and side characters as a series in its own with how in depth the literary themes go
Thank you, I'm enjoying making it! TMA has an amazing world that's very well built and I feel it's very slept on in the video essay department so I thought "screw it, I'll be the change I want to see in the world" and here we are.
As a fellow Distortion enjoyer, the Spiral is coming very soon. I'm mostly doing them in the order of "plot relevance," however that can be defined, but yes, that means that the Spiral will be coming down the line shortly. I'm especially excited to talk about Helen's literary role as a foil to Jon, as you mentioned.
As for a series on specific avatars and side characters, I may do that when I'm finished, although I imagine I'll be a bit Magnus'd out by the end of these 15! In other words, maybe, it depends on if I feel I can add anything to what's already been said and if I have the energy to do another dive back into TMA.
I know this isn't the point of the video but I really liked the art! The reader and author dynamic being represented by the eye and web is so cool and I hadn't thought about it like that before
To add to the question of the Web's free will, the Spider in that theatre domain itself says that it can no more resist the pulling of their strings than the individual can resist being pulled. It has a nature it didn't choose for itself, which is why The Web couldn't just tell the other fears to stop goofing around and forge a group ritual. It *had to* manipulate it into happening. The Web is pulled along by its own strings in the same way any other creature is, which ties in with Kane's message to John about how goofy the idea of "autonomy" is in a world where people are both subject and object.
If you are bound in yourself, is that its own kind of freedom?
Absolutely. In fact, the moment where the Spider speaks directly to Francis in the theatre, making reference to the Eye and Jon in the audience, is what made me want to explore that idea in the first place. The Web may seem like it's in control, but really the strings of fate are guiding it along just as much as any of its puppets. It's a really curious idea, and one I sort of hope they go into more for The Magnus Protocol. Thanks for giving your thoughts!
@Afton G. Kier Thanks for your response!! And yeah, what I like most about the Web is that it's sapient and a reality bender on the level of a deity, and yet it never once says that *it* is free of manipulation. And I think what would scare me most as an Avatar of the Web is the fact that even the Spinner of Webs is itself caught in a web. And of course, the metaphorical web that the Mother is caught in would be the words of the Writer.
All this to say that, in my personal opinion, I think the Web has 4th wall-breaking knowledge. I think it *knows* that it is in a narratively-lower dimension than ours. And I think the whole idea of leaving the "Magnus Archives" world is supposed to mean that the Web (and other fears) is entering other layers of fiction as well. Or showing up in other 'stories", basically. It will always be caught in someone else's web, but now it's gone beyond Johnny's web, outside of Johnny's control. And now that there's fanfiction of the Fear Entities... well, it's not wrong, is it?
My favorite is the flesh but the web is the one that would get me as an avatar. At least i get to be on the winning team.
So I am wayyy late to the party but I want to share something: I'm a big fan of Louise Bourgeois, an artist that makes giant spider sculptures, so large that her exhibitions have trouble finding rooms. She also associates spiders with motherhood and womanhood in general, just like the various names this entity has. I find it very interesting how this is the most... feminine-coded (?) of all the powers. After all, what power did women have for centuries when we couldn't even vote besides manipulating the husbands we were forced to marry, creating support networks, weaving tiny strings throughout society that would eventually give us equal rights.
I just realized. Annabelle Cane's experiment was shortly after Trevor killed that Web Avatar. Annabelle had the same "hollowed out" look during her transformation, so I think the web made her as a replacement.
not entirely web, but also the vampires trevor hunts definitely seem to have some relation to it. they really dont seem too much like hunt in their own methods, and they could possibly be flesh, but they dont seem to really align to one entity entirely like some monsters. hard to pin down the "making people understand things without speaking" without a little bit of web-like mind manipulation
Absolutely! I talked about that more in my Hunt video, but I definitely agree that there's a lot of Web in the Vampires.
I'm pretty sure they're web,the hunters don't like them,they also don't speak but influence their victims to do whatever they want against their will
@@moonbunnygw8342given they participate in the hunts failed ritual, they are hunt, just weird hunt
It's entirely possible they're just some kind of aggressive mimic species that evolved naturally to prey on humans.
my theory about vampires is that they ARE hunt, in that they exist *to be hunted*, traumatizing and getting killed by people in order to spark the thrill of the hunt in them
Addition is most overtly tied to Web in the form of influence and compulsion, but Daisy and the other Hunters are addicts as well. They are driven to chase the high, doing everything they can to prolong the Hunt.
Yay! Perfect thing I needed, thank you!
Just found you today via recommendations when I was relistening to DaughtersofProsperos songs on the fears, specifically her song on the Hunt (do check those out they are great)
I'm wanting to kinda get into the mindset of playing the Web, as I just joined an origins mod Minecraft server as an arachnid, and while I intend to play the positives of spiders in my character, I am drawn to also indulge in the grand works of The Mother of Puppets. I know for sure I shall have a giant rift in my cave base now. And perhaps I should orchestrate a grand machination such that all the players end the season there.
Good to hear that you're enjoying the videos! As for the Daughters of Prospero, I have actually listened through them. The End's song, Patience, in particular is, I think, amazing. Definitely gets the feeling of creeping existential hopelessness across!
Going back and relistening to them now. I forgot how good Arcane Knots and Knock-a-Door Fun are, but I still think nothing beats the last two lines of Patience.
"Death does not care with whom you do or don't align.
The End never hungers. To have life marks you mine."
@@FinalFantasmagorie favs for me have to be the Hunt, The Flesh and The Burried's songs. Tbh I so want her to do like a theater production of all of the songs a la Greek theater with masks and everything
Your microphone is quite good, but you might want to use sound compression to make the audio not get louder and quieter as you lean in to the microphone
I love the web, I’d be a web patron ☝️
Predestination has always scared me
what art software do you use? it looks so familiar..
I use Krita, because it's free and works well enough for me. Almost a year later, I'm still using it!
The plot power, honestly i think one avenue of web that was never utilized but would be perfect fit is religious angle, eye to for that matter. Why? For eye its easy. In monotheism God is often supposed to be all-knowing and i don't think i need to say more. As for Web, well there is idea of entity that has total control and everything that ever happened is part of some greater plan... Is it Gods or Webs Description? Of all powers to potentially have religious connotations I think Web is one of strongest contenders.
In Buddhism, Realities rests on the Pearls of a Spider's Web.
I'm a bit confused as to why the Web didn't t just escape into another reality alone. Why did it need to pull the other fears with it? Does the Web need all the other fears somehow?
During Jonah/Jon's MAG 160 speech, and at several other points throughout Season Five, it's either outright stated or heavily implied that the Fears are all divisions of some greater force and, as a result, are tied to each other, which is the reason that only Jonah's ritual worked: no one else had tried to bring through ALL of the Fears. This means that, if the Web had wanted to escape, it likely would have had to take the other Entities with it, in the same way that Jonah Magnus dragged all of the other Entities through to his world with the Eye from whatever space they existed in before. It's not ever specifically stated that that's the Web's reasoning, of course, but that's what I gathered from the surrounding context.
@@FinalFantasmagorie Ooh that's very interesting! Thank you for the explanation ☺️
As the tapes returned for the epilogue, I was thinking that the wider multiverse/realities aspect of the plot was a lie constructed by the web. What happens after they escape may be unknowable from our reality and the web is our only source of information. Even the all knowing eye didn’t seem to know, as it understands nothing and could have been deceived by the web. The point being to leave the web as the only major fear with any power on earth.
If it turns out the fears do spread successfully, the web benefits. If the fears perish, the web benefits. If the fears fail but return or reemerge anyway, the web is still dominant as the others have to restart from scratch.
The web won.
@@FinalFantasmagoriethat also ties in to Leitner's analogy of a human interacting with an ant hill-
Wasn't the table in ep 4?
The Table first appears in Graham Folger's apartment in MAG 3, but I don't believe it makes an appearance in MAG 4.
The Web: "I'm surrounded by idiots"
You seem to have forgotten Adelard Dekker, he seems to be involved with the web.
Does he? The only thing I can think of is his binding of the NotThem to the Web Table, but, other than that, Dekker seems to act primarily as a solitary agent, not falling to any power. While it's possible he has Web ties, we simply don't know enough about what exactly he did to the NotThem or what the Table does to say that it's not simply the Table's power at work there, and I'd argue that the rest of his actions would contradict the idea that he serves any one power. Still, I think that it is probably best to mention that he was the one who used the Table the one and only time we saw it actively "entrap" something.
And don't worry, Dekker will CERTAINLY be back when I talk about the Extinction.
Hm, so, relistening to MAG 78, his gaunt appearance is slightly reminiscent of Annabelle's description and you could make an argument that the "force" in his voice is a form of compulsion, as Lawrence never even considers not following his commands, but that seems to me to be more a combination of Dekker's stern nature and the narrator's weakened mental state. He also seems to intentionally keep Lawrence from being drawn into the table, which would seem to oppose the Web in action.
In short, I don't think he's Web aligned, but there's just enough evidence here to make some argument for it.
@@FinalFantasmagorie I find episode 113 to be far more telling of Dekker connection. He doesn't seem to have much of a need for sleep, manipulates people by fuelling theirs addictions and spend several days just sitting in front of a house, like a spider, until his target Mr. Goth emerged from it. I couldn't see how this man isn't connected to the spider in a similar way to Gerard Keay to the eye.
I honestly hate the spider. It's the most obtuse entity. It's only a singular entity for aesthetic reasons. Arachnophobia has nothing to do with being manipulation. Arachnophobia should belong to the corruption, and manipulation can stand as its own fear
While I do agree that Spiders could fit into The Corruption, I do feel like they fit better with The Web than The Corruption. The thing is with The Corruption is that it has a certain grossness to its identity. It is filth and rot and that which squirms and burrows. Sure, spiders are small animals similar to insects and flies and such which The Corruption does have, but people don't generally find spiders gross. Meanwhile, spiders fit into The Web's manipulation, particularly with figurative language. There's a lot of figurative language about manipulaturs "pulling the strings" and building a "web of deception" and the whole "being caught in the web". Plus, it fits better from a developmental sense. Pretty much all of the Entities have a physical thing to them. The obvious ones are Entities such as The Vast, The Buried, and The Dark, very large things and wide open spaces, dirt and claustrophobic spaces, and the dark itself. Others have more physical symbols, such as The Eye, The Desolation, and The Lonely, with eyes, fire, and fog. Sure, The Web could have strings, but that's already so close to spiders already that it makes sense to have Spiders be the sort of physical thing of The Web. It gives an overall physical theme that makes it easier to see, especially considering The Web is one of the most prominent Entities in The Magnus Archives.
Can't agree. The connection is abstract but it's there, and arachnophobia and insectophobia meanwhile are actually pretty different experientially