46521 with TPO at Quorn Saturday 27th April 2013
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 апр 2013
- 46521 with the TPO set on Quorn down sidings leaves with out checking catch pionts on Saturday 27th April 2013
My comment would be :- Yes the Driver Fireman and Guard had been to signal box and permission was given to pass signal at danger BUT no body had gone to check the catch piont
With some of the remarks in the comments
I'm glad I've retired. When I did it the only come back was Being dressed down by my traction inspector.
He's last word on the subject was "You won't do that again Will YOU !!!! ". Also I was given a nickname for a short time by work mates
“Well, at least we now know these trap points work”
"Scenario Ended, car derailed."
Train sim world I guess?
@@BNSFSantaFe603 nuo.
Yes
MSTS
The Fat Controller was very cross.
greendayforever2
"You have caused confusion and delay!" said the Fat Controller.
"No U" Said The Train
The Fat Controller laughed. ‘You are right.’
“Luckily no one was hurt”
Diesel: “oh, BALL LOCKS!”
0:55
"CLARKSOOOON!"
😂😂😂😂
I honestly read that in James May's voice!!
fucking killed me
TrainTrackTrav
Clarkson: what?
James: You muppet. What’s that...
HAMMMMMOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNDDDDDDDD
This is an amazing capture, it made my stomach flip to watch! We were at the gala the afternoon after the derailment. They were running pilotman and had the crane ready to pick her up as we caught the last train through Quorn. This is a good reminder always to check!
For some reason I now picture Ringo Starr going "Ahh shit!" says Thomas.
as a locoman of over 40 years experience, this is unforgiveable on the part of all concerned
they had permission to go its just the catch points where not set
@@jaidencracknell2326 Shouldn't the signalbox handle the points?
I was once given the departure signal by the station commander. On the way out of the station the first two points were not as they should be and were not locked either. Never take anything for granted. It was just to stop, get out and "throw the ball over" as we say here.
@@jaidencracknell2326 even if the engine crew did have signalmans permission pass the signal at danger and go -its STILL the drivers responsibility to proceed at extreme caution , examine the road ahead and check all points to see if they lay correctly !!!
Same here
Well this scenario took an unexpected turn.
+PeterPat Post aha! (?)
Angry Welshman!!!
Trust me this catch point derailment is preferable to a head on collision.
The idea of catch points are de rail runaways to divert them away from the mainline and the possibility of colliding with an approaching train.
There was no possibility of a collision. The train had the road and was waved past the signal at danger by the signalman - the problem was the signalman hadn't opened the trap point.
I really don't think a "head-on collision" was remotely possible on those "toy train tracks". Even if the derailed unit had been "heading" instead of "tailing" toward that "mainline".
It also wasn't a "runaway".
@@ShizukuSeiji The "problem" was the "train driver for a day" was making a "blind move" without a "ground man" and had no idea whatsoever the "catch points" were even there. Nobody "trained" him when he made his cash donation to "charity" in return for time on the "footplate" playing with the choo-choo at that "heritage railway".
@@deeremeyer1749 another armchair expert here I see! Your comment is utter drivel! This occurred during a Gala event. There would not have been, as you put it, a train driver for a day on the footplate let alone at the controls. Your remarks are ridiculous.
@@thongthong7366 you sound like a man of very great experiance and knowledge in the subject - of railways so JUST how many years of driving REAL trains do you have under your belt ??
“Houston, we have a problem”
More like Euston we have a problem.
What a splendid clip of how things are not supposed to work out, and of how effective catch points are at protecting the main line.
Possibly the luckiest catch ever filmed at a railway! Is it weird that I find it hilarious?
Its hilarious as hell
As an enthusiast and a railworker... this is absolutely hilarious.
Signal: doesn't move.
Train: screw it let's go...
10 seconds later: let's... just sit here for a while longer...
@@LordPhobos6502 now this comment got me laughing
@@LordPhobos6502 The signal is irrelevant. They were cleared to pass it at danger by the signalman.
you have caused confusion and delay
alex collier scrap me fat ass
I learnt that at signalling school :)
Loving the armchair debates
I come back and view this from time to time. It's quite vexing to see the catch points set against the train - if only I could run along the embankment , waving and shouting at the crew!
0:55 narrator: luckily no one was hurt.
Barry: oh dear what will the fat controller say.
Narrator: He found out soon enough.
With some of the remarks in the comments about my video
I'm glad I've retired. When I did it the only come back was Being dressed down by my traction inspector.
He's last word on the subject was "You won't do that again Will YOU !!!! ". Also I was given a nickname for a short time
Too many scathing armchair railway critics and miserable little people who infest this field who call themselves "enthusiasts." Its quite well ruined it for me too. Yes, they made a boo boo. Nobody got hurt and the engine is fine. We dont need an NTSB report, lets get on with our lives people....
One bad day "on the footplate" as a weekend "railroader" at the old "heritage railway" was enough, huh? I don't blame you. If I made a cash donation to a "charity" in exchange for getting to play with the choo-choos and pretend to be a real "train driver" after my first "retirement" from my first "career" driving a desk and/or wearing a suit every day of my "adult life" for decades and decades and nobody "trained" (pun optional) me on "catch points" and/or "played" ground man for me during a blind move and I ended up putting the choo-choo "in the dirt" at 1 mph in a "siding" as I was "shunting" a long "consist" of passenger "carriages" and my "traction inspector" dressed me down and my "co-workers" made fun of me I'd probably "retire" too.
Train "driving" and "railwaying" look so much easier and more fun and "romantic" from the other side of a TV or movie or computer screen and/or while "train spotting" and/or from inside a "first class" passenger "carriage", don't they?
@@WhyAyeMann You couldn't get an NTSB report in that shithole country if you wanted one. And its just a "heritage railway" where well-heeled "volunteers" pony up a little "financial support" for that "registered charity" to buy their way onto the "footplate" and play "train driver for a day" anyway, isn't it?
Hell, the lack of "training" and "instruction" about things like "catch points" and being sent to make a blind move alone without a "ground man" and the resulting "boo-boo with the choo-choo" and "clean up" and the "dressing down" by the "boss" and the "good-natured ribbing" by all the driver-for-a-day's "co-workers" AND THE PERFECTLY-POSITIONED "SOUVENIR VIDEO" CAMERA RECORDING HIM "ON THE JOB" MIGHT JUST BE PART OF THE "RAILWAY REALITY SHOW" PACKAGE AND "RETIREMENT" AT THE END OF THE DAY IS PROBABLY "MANDATORY".
HELL, THE CRANE WAS ALREADY "STEAMING" WHEN THE "WRECKING CREW" CAME ROLLING IN FOR THE "CLEANUP" SO THIS MUST NOT HAVE BEEN TOO MUCH OF AN "EMERGENCY" AND IT CERTAINLY WASN'T THE "BOSS'S" FIRST RODEO, WAS IT?
@@deeremeyer1749 you "sound" like an utter "prick"
@@WhyAyeMann While I do hate Armchairs,I don't see how these "Miserable Young People" aren't enthusiasts I mean an Enthusiast is someone who likes Railways,we shouldn't gatekeep people
I just love all these armchair railway experts on youtube!
Yup, you're spot on there. I'm talking from experience with that type of loco and similar length trains. It still takes a few seconds for vacuum to be destroyed throughout the train (air has to get all the way from the valve in the cab to the last coach, the longer the train, the longer the lag and that's a fairly long train for an Ivatt). Also, I would imagine that in the moment of panic on the footplate the brakes weren't applied the instant things went wrong.
The fact remains that no one thought to check the points, even if the signalman did give permission to proceed against a danger signal. Assuming that this catch point is operated from the box and not from the ground frame, did he not check the lever? Running tender first, I doubt that anyone on the engine would have seen the setting of the points, unless they leaned some way out of the cab. Having said that, the driver should have shut off and braked the instant that the tender left the rails- it made enough noise!
On the Southern as a fireman I walked miles checking point and catch points. It is as I'm sure you know in the Rulebook. Some of these modern play train people would try to muzzle load a Kalashnikov.
Bill - driver probably did shut off and brake as soon as he could, but reaction time is involved, plus sheer surprise! Even moving at 1 to 2 mph a 50~60 ton loco is going to go some distance even with brakes on. It did stop within its own length which is actually pretty impressive.
The points couldn't been jammed or tampered with
@@ShizukuSeiji Also locos don’t instantly react, there is time between shutting the regulator and the steam cutting off
The thing is that if you're only undertaking a job occasionally rather than everyday you don't have the same depth of experience. Inicdents happen on the mainline of course but an incident like this one, regardless of who or what caused it, really is unforgivable!
I speak as someone who is a NWR signaller and a former P-Way Engineer - I've volunteered on the GC previously on the P-Way side too.
Arnold: "Ralph! How many times have I told you not to touch that lever?! You've got to pay attention!"
Joseph Marrison Ha ha ha
But no lever was pulled incorrectly. They just forgot to check that the catch points let to the main line.
The funny bit to me about this is this is the actual locomotive used in the series
Well, At least we know the trap points work
HOLY CRAP!!!!, thanks for uploading this I really wanted to see how it happened
For the people who don't understand what happened this is what did : ivat 46521 had permission to pass the red signal and from what I am guessing neither the signalmen or the crew knew that the trap points were on and like that they derailed.
I guess this won't be stopping at Hatley for a while!.
Harry Lambert will be over the moon😊
"I say Ollie, This is a fine mess you've gotten us into."
Ouch!!!
Keep going, you’re good, you’re good, you’re good, and stop. Don’t worry cap’n we’ll buff out the scratches!
It's SO easy to point fingers, isn't it? Like you guys never make mistakes. This is exactly how this sort of thing happens. Someone simply loses concentration for a moment and it could have been ANY ONE of you. For me, I feel terrible for these guys.
The engine says
Oh dear when will my controller of the trains see me with this! 😱
Niiccceee! :D I can just imagine the driver saying 'Aw crap....'
I would imagine that due to the sounding of the whistle before moving off, he was passing the signal at danger under authority. If that is the case, the crew should have checked the position of the points before moving off.
A case of an error by both signalman and driver.
I am sure as it's been confirmed on here and elsewhere. Its also obvious in the video as the driver gives the required long whistle as he's passing the signal. As for the traps being locked/chocked, they don't need to be if the signal is at fault. But it does help if the route is set if you want to pull a signal off...
He seems to have had permission, as he blew two long whistles, indicating that he was given said permission to pass the signal. Obviously he didn't look past the tender - maybe he forgot, but No.46521 is back on the rails and running once more without any fault. No more harm done.
If you look closely at the footage the driver doesn't once look where he's going. He's looking down the train probably for the guard and even when he sets off he STILL only looks down the train and not where he's going. Now he may have had permission to pass the signal at red but that's no excuse for not making sure the road was set for him. I don't about the terminology in the UK but here the track is called the road. It's like driving a car and just because the traffic light in front of you is green doesn't mean that the vehicles to your left and right are going to stop on their red light. Someone is bound to run a red light and hit you if you're not prepared for it. It's unforgivable to derail on trap points and a sign of bad enginemanship.
In memory of 46521
Everything is fine, 46521 only had Minor damage, easily repairable
Dear oh dear what a mess! Your comments are very apt Richard!! Cheers, Ken
My gosh, I was not actually expecting that to happen, despite seeing the catch points there!
I shall say this. This maneuver was known to the public. A person had setup in this position to record the TPO moving out of the siding, Public were watching from the fence at the other side.
Check the signals in the distance, Set to danger. The main line was set up for maneuvers to occur from the siding.
The signal was set to danger, the catch points were set to main line protection, Driver nor fireman could see the points. All have a little blame. We know not who though.!
As the narrator in Thomas and Friends would state this after some usual accident; "Luckily no one was hurt".
“Luckily no one was hurt.”
That's why you don't make blind moves without a "ground man".
As an ex signalman, I feel for all those concerned, they will have taken it very badly I'm sure. I'm a little confused on why the train was instructed to pass the signal at danger (if that is the case), that would only happen if there was a malfunction of equipment, in which case, yes, they should have made sure the route was still set. Saying that, Rhe train crew surely should have checked to make sure
In memory of the most famous engine
Makes me happy to see this again
Yes.... I have seen this happen before when I was working a shift at an outstation. A train was in the loop for a considerable time for crossings. When it was it's turn to go the Station Master sent me over to the locomotive with the staff to give to the driver but he hadn't made the road & pulled off the signal.... there were no catch points so when the driver took off without checking the signal the locomotive ran through the points smashing the interlocking ..... luckily no derailment.
The engine wanted to recreate the RWS story( I think) "Near miss" But it had the train XD
And was facing the wrong way
Utter incompetence. They had a few dangerous incidents around that time with a 2 mile runaway and collision too. Hopefully they are a safer set up now
Guys, please, it's a Trap not a Catch point. A Trap is controlled by the signaller and protects another line from an unauthorised conflicting movement . A catch point is normally uncontrolled and used to derail runaway vehicles.
as a person who has been on the footplate while a locomotive is moving... I was thinking the same, luckily from this footage it looks as though both escaped unharmed, though clearly shocked and shaken. The fireman looks out the cab after the train is at rest. If either had been injured I doubt that would have been the case.
for the most part. The most important thing is that no one was injured.
It should be that the signal cannot be cleared unless the trap points are set first, that is the basis of interlocking. There is always the possibility that the lever for the trap points was pulled, but the blades didn't go over which could have prevented the signal being pulled off. If there is no track circuit showing the lie of the trap point blades then the signalman may not have been aware of an issue.
That one slightly deaf driver: I think we went over some rocks,
Reality: We have gone over the wrong way on points..
Driver: "Oh sh*t"
They where whistling whilst passing the signal at danger, which means they have had permission to pass by the signalman. But the crew should have checked to make sure the route is set before proceeding. I know its easy to point the finger but it's partially the signalmans fault for not setting the road for whatever reason. It's also partially the driver and firemans fault for not ensuring that the route was correctly set.
This is exactly what happens when you put Bill & Ben, the flower pot men in charge of a loco for a few minutes.
Exactly... complete all round incompetence. The fact no one checked, double checked or triple checked..
even a blind man with half his brain missing from an industrial accident could have spotted the trap switch was on.
Or what happens when Bill and Ben the tank engine twins meet a gullible signalman
Ralph was driving again.
Bryan Coates Where's Arnold when you need him!
The points can be changed in special cirumstances even if the signal is at danger. Generally the catch point would be released from the interlocking and 'clipped', or clamped shut. However, you're right that the signalman should have been explicit in his instructions that this shouild be done before the train proceeds.
Maybe the camera man didn't notice the position of the catch points because he was busy filming the train, it's not easy to see pointwork from a camcorder screen if your looking at that and not the train, and as for shouting a warning, worth a try but I should think that would be in vain, as the driver and fireman won't hear it over the noise of the locomotive
Barry(was cross 😡) : WHOS Been playing with the catch poi- (Hears Bill and Ben Laughing 😂) 😤 oh Those TWINS!!!!
"Luckily no one was hurt, but The Fat Controller was very cross."
35 years on the S&T and I've never heard that one before! Says a lot really.
A little knowledge etc eh?
And, for those of you asking why the OP did not notice the points were set against the movement, consider one thing. Like the majority of you, I assume, he is a photographer. He's not controlling the move, or involved in it. If I sat you all down, and showed you this 100 second long video for the first time, out of context and with no clue that a derailment would occur, how many of you would spot that the trap points were still normal ? Honestly. Or are you all perfect ?
"The Fat Controller was very cross at Barry."
"Barry!!" Boomed the fat controller
As soon as you see the tender go down slightly there is just that, “aw fuck” moment, and it just all goes wrong.
A clear signal with interlocking means points are correctly set, when a signal has to be passed at Danger those safeguards are not there so all points facing or trailing should be checked by the Engine Crew and also see that the correct route is set up. Never take a chance. No one was injured that is the main thing but its a lesson learned.
Catch and trap points both achieve a similar result,to wit - derailing rogue vehicles before they can cause too much damage, but they work in very different ways and are found in different places. Generally, catch points worked automatically, being sprung so that they were trailed by traffic going in the normal direction, but derailed anything running away in the wrong direction. Trap points are facing, worked, and protected by a signal. I did explain this earlier in the thread Frazinator97 !
good video, like the sound of the whistle, classic sound. the derailment looks quite bad, would be scary for the footplate crew! never seen a derailment before
Any signalman's nightmare. There but for the grace of God (and the Rule Book)...
That's another fine mess you've got me into Stanley.
Really, im so pleased for you.
Most of the comments on here are from people who have no actual railway knowledge, like the one who posted saying that the driver should have set the points! Drivers do not set the points, it the signaller, or points operator acting under the instructions of the signaller or PIC if one was appointed.
It was a nasty accident, and thank God, there was no injuries.
That had to be the most unsettling feeling EVER.
This must have been embarrassing for the driver and signalman (can't really put any blame on the fireman - not like he has much duty in this).
I'm curious as to why they passed a signal at "stop"...and why the signalman hadn't set the points correctly.
I mean seriously, that's a run-off line, isn't it? It shouldn't even be SET to that unless it's an emergency...
The points are set that way if there is no train supposed to be using them, regardless of whether an emergency situation exists. It is precisely to PREVENT emergency situations from existing that these points are there in the first place.
They passed a signal at stop because they had permission to do so granted by the signalman. This is why the whistle is blown for a fairly long, single blast at the beginning of the video - they do this to show the signalman that in no uncertain terms they are now moving off following his granting of permission to do so. Regardless, they proceeded when the points had not been set correctly following permission being given to SPAD. There will have been someone/people responsible for this, of course, but without knowing the full story, I wouldn't simply put the blame on the signalman and driver. I'd do my own research first before forming an opinion and would encourage you to do the same.
Problem Productions I see, thanks for the info. Plus I learned something about runoff points, I didn't know "derail" was their natural setting.
Damian Freeman No worries. The technical term is "catch points" - the idea is that they will derail any train that's not supposed to be there, basically, to prevent it from going onto the running line and potentially causing a collision or other such major accidents.
Problem Productions The more you know.
I do like learning more about railway terminology and protocols, particularly in the steam era.
Damian Freeman Exactly! And that's good, I enjoy it too.
I'm a time-served professional signalman and volunteer signalman. I guess that places me on the fence of competence and stupidity. I need guidance, o wise one.
Even if the driver was given instructions to pass the signal at danger, he should have been carefully checking the points before proceeding.
Catch points are found, often, at the bottom of an incline and trap points at signals. BUT variations DO occur from region to region and BR were by no means consistent with positioning or names for different types of points... therefore there isn't exactly a 'right' or 'wrong' answer in general, though this particular set are trap points.... I am happy to have 'pointed' this out... :')
If any of yall don't know and are wondering the locomotive is a BR Standard 2MT 2-6-0.
no its an LMS Ivatt Class 2, basically what BR based the 2MT on.
@@yeoldeseawitch my bad :p
This calls for John Cleese to walk on in a policeman's uniform and exclaim " 'ere now, what's all this then?"
"Luckily, no one was hurt."
Buffscrag71/azervich: points and signals are interlocked, but you've got it the wrong way round. The points can be moved when the signal is at danger because this stops trains going over them until they have been moved. The signal can't be cleared until a route acceptable to the interlocking has been set
Holy shit! That's my reaction to this rare mash up
James, thank you for using a Rule from a BR's now obsolete rulebook to illustrate that British Rail certainly considered that Catch Points and Trap Points were different, but similar, things. That's why they listed them, in a list. If they were all the same thing, as you appear to contend, then they would have just said "Catch Points".
Feel better soon Blossom. :
If the original Railway Children had been there Jenny Agutta would have waved her red knickers and saved the day. :))
The awful thing is that you can clearly see the points from this angle and the danger is apparent. As someone else has said, I he this particular camera was left unmanned
Dear all.
Please note the following.
1. A set of worked points installed in a siding or loop, designed to protect another line by trapping and derailing vehicles before they can run onto it and foul it = TRAP points.
2. A set of points installed in a running line, usually sprung to allow them to be trailed, which are designed to catch and derail vehicles running away in the wrong direction on a gradient = CATCH points.
The points in this video are quite obviously trap points.
Did heads roll that day, Surely someone would have seen how the points were set,
Oh my God! Sometimes these things just happens...
You know what; I have a suspicion that there won't be anything from the RAIB about this: it isn't a notifiable incident - no passengers involved and engine went away from passenger line so not foul.
At my "home" railway museum in Southern California "always check the points" is one of our "watchwords". But, on thankfully rare occasions, someone forgets, and we have an "annoying situation".
As a Conductor for a Class 1 in North America ill say this there's no excuse for running through a derail or trap point. Operating at restricted speed ( like they would have been ) you check every switch and derail in your path.
Bruh moment number 46521: When no one checks the catch points
BRUH.
I love the fact the fireman looks out to see if they're off the road....I'm pretty sure the clattering and tilt of the loco was a big clue!!
Not one on the footplate was watching where they were going!
The RAIB only investigate incidents which are or, if circumstances had been slighty different could have been, serious. A non pax train derailling in the sidings isn't serious. I'd be surprised if the RAIB investigated this.
As for the nurse comment:the railway should have a policy that all staff involved in an incident must be drugs and alcohol screened.
And if you are wondering, my comments are made with my background as a professional railwayman working in operational rail safety.
The right time right place..well done..cheers Steve..
This video is gonna turn 10 soon!!
Did anyone upload video or photos of the re-railing? If so, can someone send me a link please
My mistake...wrong term. Thanks, I've been around railways long enough to know (lol)......senior moment.
To be fair as an experienced film maker the incident took 9 secinds to the point of last stoppable distance and a further 9 seconds for the train to start off the rails. Human reaction time is on average 0.3 of a second and as any cameraman knows one has to keep ones attention wide and alert partly for safety but also for potential shots which in my experience include the track. I'm sure those there would be wondering why a chap with the best view said nothing. Reality is what we film!