Did the Essenes Write the Dead Sea Scrolls--What Can We Say After 75 Years?
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- The short answer is "It's Complicated." So much depends on what one means by "Essene" and what sources have gone into this or that use of the term--whether ancient or modern. In this interview with host Neal Sendlack @GnosticInformant, we explore the core issues and many others related thereto, that have been discussed for the past 75 years!
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Dr Tabor is one of my favorite educators/researchers/speakers. He is balanced and manages bias in a manner that all researchers should emulate. Thanks Dr. Tabor for decades of information, research, and entertainment. I love hearing you talk about the origin of Christianity. I am a smarter person from your efforts.
Mine too!
Thank you for continuing making the DSS topical! I Have over 50 books on this material that I've collected since the late 90s and absolutely appreciate Neal and others having folks like Dr Tabor commenting and giving their expertise. We truly live in the Information Age.
More lectures, more interviews of Dr Tabor please. Fascinating topics and views
your username is a bit -_-
We don't know if Jude was quoting what we know today as "the book of Enoch." Jude could be referencing another work. The "book of Enoch" writer could have drawn from that same source and expanded on it. Or the "book of Enoch" writer could be quoting commonly known legend, etc. EDIT 1:05:10 You do believe in the Q source for the New Testament books. This is what I'm talking about. So by the same principle you can't say that Jude's little blurb is from what we today call the "book of Enoch."
Thank you for sharing Dr. Tabor . I am old but I never stop seeking knowledge about everything . Your channel was put on my face by premium channel .
Wow! Your visuals are breathtaking, Dr. Tabor! Starting with the lovely room with the engaging fire and art and exquisite furnishings. Then you provided us with a visual presentation worthy of the old masters to discuss the Dead Sea Scrolls. You put a tremendous amount if effort into this discussion and it shows. You made it highly entertaining and informative! I'm late to the party because I was watching another one of your videos:-)🧚♀
The visuals were provided by the interviewer on his channel (Gnostic Informant), not Dr. Tabor.
@@NovaG8r He did a wonderful job, the visuals were exceptional:-) 🧚♀
Wonderful discussion, thank you James & Neal
This was such a great interview.
Neal, excellent video with Dr. Tabor. Thank you
Interesting conversation. Thanks, guys.
That's funny bcz I remember going to church with a hangover after rocking out the night before 😅😅😅
This lecture is so interesting. Thank you for sharing important historical information!
Great discussion! Thanks.
Love the Scrolls!
👍
Thank you for this informative interview. Fascinating!
Excellent and very well done presentation !!!
Thank you !!!
These “Essene”/Early Christian parallels are blowing my mind.
Thank you so much. I love learning from the vast knowledge and experience James Tabor has to share with us. ♥.
The founding of the DSS really has shown how diverse Judaism was prior to the Temple being destroyed. I believe Essenes may have lived at Qumran but still think alot of this material could have come from Jerusalem as the Romans conquered. THAT is why the Essenes Josephus mentions doesn't match what he says about them. That's my take as I start watching this video. Thanks again Neal and Dr Tabor!
This is great video re the subject , however, some of the photos of canyons and rocks are not in the Dead Sea, But Arches National Park in Utah USA.
Thank you Dr James Tabor🙏
Another great topic and interview.
The more I learn from people like Dr. Tabor and Dr. Bart Erhman, the further away from Christianity I move. I truly respect their scholarship and knowledge. It's not just these two men. It's just that...the more I learn about the early church and it's founding, the more I am convinced it was just made up.
The Essenes talk about hell? Is that Hades, Tartarus, or Gehenna? What is the Aramaic word? Is any of these Greek words close to it in usage?
It is Gehenna where one will be judged after death for any misdeeds, in Aramaic. 🙏
No mention of eternal torment as far as I know.
Great interview.
I agree with Gnostic Informant that Jesus was the face of a new generation of Essenes with its own ideas
47:00 Gnostic informant is missing that the debate over saving an animal fallen in a ditch on shabbat is also discussed in the Rabbinic literature and Jesus is ruling there in accord with one of the 'Pharisaic' positions
Thank You
I knew it, i knew it ❤
have to sleep now - but I love it.
He seems to imply this group was violent or somehow destructive. I find that fascinating considering the writings from the group itself are extremely peaceful.
Would love to know more about the Samaritan elements of the Qumran group, and Tabor’s thoughts on Eisenman’s theory of James the Just and the Qumran group.
The Dead Sea Scrolls writers were very anti-Samaritan and it was considered a grave sin to even talk to them.
Please could I ask you what it was ideologically that separated them
@@kamrandehghan6507 The Samaritans held that Mount Gerizim was the true holy place for the worship of God and whereas the Jews held that it was at the temple in Jerusalem.
@@kamrandehghan6507 The Tabernacle of YHWH was erected in Shechem, more than likely on Mt. Gerizim, which is the Mountain of blessings where the Levites stood. Joshua explains that at one time, there were two tents: THE Tabernacle in Shechem (see Joshua 24:26-27) and another “tent of Meeting” in Shiloh. The Samaritans say that Eli rebelled against the rightful priesthood in Shechem and he took a rebellious group of many from the tribe of Judah to Shiloh. (The writings in the Hebrew Bible are “Judean” writings, from Judean perspective, not from Samaritan perspective.) Eventually, Solomon built the temple in Jerusalem which caused the biggest split in the kingdom.
Dr. Rachel Elior gives the best presentation on RUclips to answer this question.
Walking down the trail on the west side of Masada in 1987, I observed palm fronds sticking out of the soil in the Roman ramp. That's over 1,900 years. While the contents of the Essenes latrine should hav quickly dessicated in that dry environment, would i have broken down sufficiently to not have been a constant health threat? In the absence of adequate moisture, I suspect not. Perhaps the means of transmission was via dust that was ingested or breathed in.
Who Wrote The Book Of Love - 1958 The Monotones
I took a criminal deviancy class in my undergraduate studies as a psychology and sociology major. The class was oriented to believe that ANY form of deviancy from norms, customs, legal were wrong. It was an interesting stance in a liberal, secular institute. Anyway, I mentioned how if you lived in Nazi Germany and disagreed with the Nazis, THAT would have been deviancy. Would it have been right or wrong? Historically, we can definitely say it was the right thing to do, but at the time, it would have been viewed by the authorities as the opposite. 52:00
Don’t you find it a little ironic that in their quest for purity the Dead Sea Scroll people were polluting themselves with tape worms?
Wow I’ve really appreciated your explanations and sharing the contrast and similarities between the late second temple Jewish groups.
I know Yeshua is coming back to fulfill all that is spoken from the scriptures. What Gentile Christians don’t understand is that Gospel goes out to find the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Hosea 1:10, Jn 1:12
Very interesting 🙏💚🧡👍
Where would I look to find details about how-, when- & by whom "The Teacher" of the Essene 'sect' was likely/possibly killed..?
I could be convinced that The Righteous One is James the Just
I gotta admit, evidently the carbon dating is problematic for Eisenman; Otoh, him posing the Righteous Teacher could be James, the Wicked Priest as Annanius, while Paul is the Spouter of Lies is intriguing. 😮 Regardless, the characters are familiar if you squint your eyes and imagine the Carbon Dating is off by 50 to 100 years. Thoughts?
Want to know more about the historical Jesus? Ask the guy who wrote the book on it, Professor James Tabor. 😀
Edgar Cayce's time table was correct
Thank you James I have a question ❓ is the real book of Deuteronomy sectarian scrolls and can we depend on the authenticity of Deuteronomy being their original what about the wood offering in the book of Jeremiah
Id say yes. It makes logical sense given their proximity to where the scrolls were found.
Sorry I missed it, who wrote the dead sea scrolls please
They follow a different calender and think they followed a different Sabath times. It was a solar not lunar calendar. It align with one of the 4 gospel that was always thought to be off and odd.
It was the followers of the essenes that were the "multitudes" who were baptized by John and who followed Jesus.
Can you post a source
@@Atitanasteelers personal observation
Nonsense.
@@johnmichaelson9173 do a little research simple Simon .
Thank you for not jumping on the Essenes bandwagon, the sons of Zadok are priestly individuals who were disenfranchised by the Itamarian Hashmonites. 😮Meaning of the line of Ithamar
Ha! To expand on Neal's observation of what Jesus taught compared to who he could've been ala Robert Eisenman--Given Eisenman's theory that Jesus of history was more anti-Roman than has been conveyed, he possibly could've hung out with the Zealots/Sicarii understanding their rage , but trying to promote diplomacy to further their goals instead of killing their enemies...Ya know, "turn the other cheek, " if you will. 🤔
GOD is Good
Israel was alright. The last time I was in Jerusalem I ran out of money and had to give the cab driver my watch to cover the fare to the airport. He liked the watch.
Probably a group of Hebrews protesting the temple... from various backgrounds. Possibly some northerners? Definitely some Jews from a rejected priestly class or priestly dissenters (who split off to the desert, for one reason or another).
53:00 It's ironic because rabbinic law is almost entirely situational ethics....
Read The Scrolls
Jesus was often called'Rabbi' Teacher....
The Book Jashar and the Book of the Wars of Yahweh. Where are they now?
Jasher means righteousness. It was likely referring to the book of the Law, which would have included Jubilees where the stories referenced are told about.
@@firstcannon4568 these books were mentioned in the bible but not the book of jubilees, though Yovel - a Ram, is mentioned. These books were very old and the source of many books in the bible.
If Time magazine puts it on their cover, it is bound to be hokum.
There is NO prophet like me.
Deuteronomy 34:10
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.
The problem is the bias of the translators
You're supposedly shocked by comments to your video "Dead Messiah's Who Don't Return"? Whelp thumbnail shows Jesus on the cross. So that's the kind of response you wanted to get. Even so I agree people should hear what you have to say and then comment. But I'm calling hogwash on the shocked, surprised, and dismayed claim.
interesting...
Imagine living at a time when all you had was religion to try and figure things out
Norman Golb was right when he said, “There’s no rational basis for the Essene hypothesis, except for 40 years of commitment to an old idea by a clique of scholars,”
It's been over 25 years since I read Dr Golb's book, "Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls." Ever since I think he gives one of the most compelling arguments that this material came from Jerusalem instead of being written at Qumran. I respect Dr Tabor, but if that's the case then him interpreting this material as "Essene" is painting them differently than Josephus or Pliny...Dunno, but where these scrolls were written DOES make a difference, imo.
So you don’t say who the community is by name. I didn’t hear you say so. Tell me if I missed something.
The DSS community were the rightful Zadokite priesthood that were kicked out of the Temple when the priesthood became corrupted at the Maccabean, Hasmonean, and later the Herodian era. Also the statements children of light and darkness, is directly connected to the calendar because it was a solar based calendar not a lunar calendar.
It is the Davidic King that can amend the Covenant. Jesus got himself crucified for the very purpose of being named King.
These were not the Essenes. These were the exiled temple priest. The sons of Zadok like they claim in their writings. John the baptist was likely the teacher of righteousness. The Essenes had their own gospels, the gnostic gospels -- and these writings were not found in the qumran findings.
The Sons of Zadok, were the Essenes. They were also referred to as Followers of the Way. They were the Buddhist Jews that left the Temple over killing animals and eating meat. The Jews came out of India. Abraham and Sarah is just Brahma and Saraswati from Hinduism. They are just coming to terms with the fact Its all out of India.
No offense to Bart Ehrman, but I prefer listening to you.
What not even the Gentiles do? Bring the church under subjection to the old leaven
I believe the Dead Sea scrolls came from the old Red Sea belonging to Americas called Lake Agassiz which poured out and destroyed everything. That’s where you should begin a new journey
The New Co-ve-nant-ans
The more I hear about the Dead Sea Scroll group, the more sense it makes for the Romans to invent Jesus to 'steal their thunder' to pose as the source for the teachings, but be much more civil and accommodating of Roman cosmopolitanism. Probably not the Romans, but politically moderate Jews who wished to conserve their religious traditions in a sustainable way.
" the more sense it makes for the Romans to invent Jesus" - the Romans did not "invent Jesus". The religious extremists already had *many* "Jesus"es available to them. Pick one, any one, and make a religion from him.
It also makes sense if a historical Jesus was himself trying to co opt the teachings of past groups to displace them from the memory of the commoners. Purposely posed himself in parallels to Moses, Elijah, Joseph, Orion, Serapis, and whoever else. In order to save Judea from conflicting with the Romans to their own demise.
Eat wheat before chem-trails
The REAL question is: were the ESSENIM the CHASIDIM of the LEVITIM??? 🤔
NOT TRUE! WHY are the "Masada Scrolls" ALWAYS forgotten?? They are at least CONTEMPORARY with those from Qumran. I don't know if the "Book of Esther" was omitted from THAT collection because that also belonged to the Essene Zealots. The only reason I can think for that Book being omitted is that the Hebrew version of the name "Esther" would be "ASHTOR", as in the notorious "PAGAN" goddess "ASHTORETH"; the Palestinian version of "Ishtar", who was the ORIGINAL version of Venus! This is confirmed by the Hebrew word used for her name in the text: "Hadassah", meaning "myrtle"; which was the "sacred plant" of Venus-Aphrodite. ANOTHER reason for omitting it would be that in the story she was married to the "Pagan" Persian king.
The "Book of Enoch" WAS composed by the Essenes, the reason being that the Essenim were REALLY the "disenfranchised" Levitim, who were maniacally OBSESSED with reconciling the lunar and the solar calendars. This is reflected in the Book, and the character of Enoch himself; who was the SEVENTH (the PRIME "🌕" number) from Adam in generation who lived 365 years (the number of days in a ☀️ Year).
There were NOT "sects" of Judaism, Josephus' claim and the "Gospels" notwithstanding. The "Essenes" were the "Zealotim" who were the "Levitim" of the FORMER priesthood that Josephus states were REPLACED by King Herod Antipater when he built his new temple. The "Pharisees" (which means "Separated Ones") also called themselves the "Sadducees" or "Righteous Ones". BUT, there WAS a division between the "PHARISEES" themselves, because the word could ALSO be derived from "PHARSEE" meaning "Persian". THIS could be ANOTHER explanation of why the "Book of Esther" was NOT included in the Essene/Levitim collection! The Pharsee/Pharisees believed in PERSIAN "astrodualism" and ADDED TO and CHANGED the ORIGINAL "Levitical Law Code". It was THEY who composed the "DEUTERONOMIC" one after the return from exile during the PERSIAN Imperial period under the priestly scribe Ezra. It was THEY who ADDED the concepts of ASTROLOGY, NUMEROLOGY, ANGELS, DEMONS, EXORCISM, REINCARNATION/RESURRECTION, and FINAL WORLD JUDGEMENT to Judaic "Leviticism"; which was itself strictly a religious ritual and ethics code of behavior. Josephus himself, while claiming to BE one, ADMITS as much when he states that the strictly "Levitical" SADDUCEES DID NOT BELIEVE in such concepts, AND the "Gospels" claim the SAME!! ALL the MYTHOS of "Judaism" that has influenced Christianity comes FROM the PHARSEE/PERSIANS!!
WHICH, by the way, is WHY William Peter Blatty's story "The Exorcist" BEGINS in IRAQ (ancient PERSIA), AND centers on the girl being "possessed" NOT by Satan but by the PERSIAN demon "Pazuzu"!! 👹
And by the way, ANOTHER reason the Essene Levites would have BLOCKED the "Book of Esther" from their collection is that it is the ONLY Judaic scripture to refer to a "NON-Jew" (the PERSIAN Great King Cyrus "the Great") as "MESHIACH/ANOINTED"!! 😁
Josephus' text of "The Jewish Wars" was PUBLISHED in 75 AC. Naturally, he would have spent SEVERAL YEARS researching and composing it; NOT ALL in ONE year!! Prof. Tabor as a researcher and author HIMSELF should KNOW HOW a book text is produced. And Josephus WAS NOT "living in the former PALACE of the Emperor Vespasian! As he himself states in his little autobiographical sketch, when the Flavian Vespasiani family of him and his two sons Titus and Domitian moved into the IMPERIAL PALACE on the Palatine, Josephus was GIVEN their former Estate of a mansion villa in Rome. He probably VISITED, but he DID NOT RESIDE IN, the imperial palace.
AGAIN, Prof. Tabor SHOULD KNOW this, but Josephus' text of "The Jewish WARS" was NOT ALL about the rebellion that HE had taken part in. It BEGAN with the MACCABEAN REVOLT against the Greco-Syrian Seleucid Dynasty tyrant Antiochus IV Theos Epiphanes in the THIRD CENTURY BC and CONTINUED THROUGH describing their initial conquest by the Romans under Pompey "the Great" to their minor rebellion under the emperor Augustus when Judea was incorporated into the Roman Empire up until the "Great Rebellion" beginning under Nero.
The Essenim WERE mentioned in the "Gospels", BUT under DIFFERENT names! There, they were simply called the "ZELOTIM"! Like the APOSTLE Simon ZELOTES!! Jesus HAD an ESSENE ZEALOT as one of his Twelve Apostles!! They MAY also have been called the "Herodians", or supporters of the Herodian Dynasty because Josephus mentions that (even though Herod Antipater REMOVED those called "Levitim" from the Judish priesthood, EXCEPT for Josephus and his family because they were also of ROYAL HASMONAEAN BLOOD and Herod was MARRIED to one, his "favorite" wife Mariamne) Herod PATRONIZED the Essenes (probably to keep them from RESENTFULLY rebelling against him) because when he was a young man according to Josephus, one of them "predicted" that Herod would become "King of the Judes" one day. These "Herodians" are otherwise UNknown and Josephus DOES NOT mention them. They certainly WERE NOT Galileans!!
You have to be anointed prophet to be able to decipher what was said by God! He sent prophets! NOT archeologists! NOT scholars! NOT teachers! Prophets from God! Don’t you read that book you call Gods word!? The only reason they can’t comprehend it is because Cain and Satan toiled together in those different caves for years trying to get the stories just right, so people who were not anointed would drink it all up! That is the truth! That is why archaeologists and teachers cannot explain why the scrolls are in the caves and where they came from, they can only speculate about them! Cain was cursed to walk the earth with Satan until judgment! These are the last days! Better pay attention to what God is saying!
Too late in the game
Did you know, that "Essen" is a Town in Germany? For example, i have a friend who live in Essen. I could say: my friend is a Essener... Like JFK said, he is a Berliner...
Thats why some say, Jesus was born in Suisse and lived in Germany.
There are some inconsistencies concerning Lord God.
"Je" is French and means "I".
And "Sus" is the species of wild and domestic pigs.
I heard that his real name was "Radomir".
And then I found out something that I haven't heard addressed by anyone until today....
I know that in the English-speaking world, almost everyone uses the King James Bible.
In German language there are many bibles. too many i guess. When it comes to Mary Magdalene, there is a significant difference.
Everybody talks about "Mary Magdalene".
Except two Bibles! There Magdalene does not even appear. But whenever it is about Mary, she is called "Mary from Magdala".
On the other hand, the word Magdala does not appear in all other Bibles.
www.bibleserver.com/search/LUT.ELB.HFA.GNB/magdala
Magdala is a place in Germany and thus clearly indicates Mary's origin. Not far from Magdala there is a kind of cave called "Klusfelsen".
Some say that Jesus was hanged there and afterwards he spent three days in the Klusfelsen.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klusfelsen
www.harzlife.de/harzbilder/klusfelsen-bilder.html
No idea where the truth lies. NASA lies :)
Thx for your work
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)