Edgar Snow's book was very influential in USMC Major, later General, Evans Carlson's decision to liaison with the Chinese Red Army in 1938. He was impressed enough with them to adopt the hit and run strike tactics, and the motto "gung ho", for the Marine Raiders.
As a native Chinese speaker I was wondering what "gung ho" stands for. My first guess is "恭候” which is a classical and polite way to say "I am waiting(will wait) for you" It could also be used in a sense like "I am waiting for you to fk around then I will let you find out", which is a very fitting motto for a military. Then I googled and was utterly disappointed that the correct term was 工和. It's a very boring and weird term for Chinese. Please suggest the USMC to adopt my version. You don't even need to change the romanization 😂
For auditory learners I would also recommend the podcast a people’s history of ideas. It’s an ongoing project documenting the development of Maoism with its historical context starting with the boxer rebellion. It’s great and I can’t recommend it enough.
"If you're psychological normal"...... 🤣 Yeah... Between brain chemistry, life experiences, and general environmental input... That is a stretch... Your Korean War 10' pole, is a lot like my Vietnam War 10' pole. Growing up in the 80s just overwhelmed w/Vietnam War history/myths/legends/pop culture... I took a break from it for awhile. My father and uncle served there, my commanders and Senior NCOs were Vietnam Vets when I first joined the military. It wasn't any bordem it was more exhausting. Now in the last few years a lot of info has been declassified. The MACV-SOG operations has been interesting... Confirming rumors or guess' that had happened. Thank you for adding more reading material to my life...😁
in Pistols of the Warlords start with Page 330 and a single-shot muzzle loading pistol. Page 200 is a short picture essay on Shanghai and W. E Fairbairn.
Thank you, Dr. Clower 🙏 I’ve unfortunately enjoyed your class more than my own Chinese history course. Now that this semester is coming to a close I will use the coming winter break to rekindle my passion for history through your recommended readings.
Ahhh the the taiping rebellion. My great great grandfather was a lieutenant in the heavenly kingdom. he wasn’t a fanatic, but he fought for them because of their belief in ending the opium trade and socializing land. the ming dynasty hunted him down when the rebellion fell. and that’s part of the reason why my great grandfather came to the US for work.
That's so fascinating and cool wow. I did a high school project on the Rebellion and it's so cool to hear from someone who's family was historically involved. To me as a teenager when I did that project it felt like you know ancient history from a medieval fantasy especially since it happened across the world in the Mystical East which I love but have never visited, so your comment is so cool! It makes it so REAL! 🎗️🔥🐉 Though the real life scenario was not quite so romantic. Apparently after the rebellion leader died, his followers buried him and moved on. Then when the Chinese Government of the time found his burial spot, they dug him up, cremated him, and fired him out of a cannon lol kind of like one big last FU middle finger!
@ yeah the Ming dynasty was really brutal in its crackdown. Like I said the Ming dynasty hunted him down and basically scattered my family. My great grandfather became a migrant laborer on the Pacific railroads in the US because the family needed money
Red Star Over China addresses in the funniest way possible accusations of bias in his reporting on Mao! Edgar Snow says he knows people will question the truth of his account, so to prove no one in the Communist Party of China influenced his book he tells a story about Mao studying maps on a hot Summer day. Mao being a good ol country boy cooled himself off as you do by taking his pants off and just raw dogs Snow's interview questions. My dad grew up on a farm in Eastern Kansas says it was normal to get naked in the August heat to stay cool. Seems like Snow is legit to me!
Snow also published Red Star Over China in 1938, so Mao wasn't more than a decade from becoming a famous and successful revolutionary leader after winning in 1949!
Poole's book "The Last Hundred Yards" is a non-com must read in the USMC. It's hard to find a copy, but Jocko Willink discusses it on one of his early podcasts.
17:20 Very bold assumption to make Have you read any of Sarah C.M. Paines' books about the Sino-Japanese War and Russian/Chinese relations? They've been on my list for a while but I haven't gotten around to buying them just yet.
The idea of the Chinese doing pike-and-shot style warfare in the 1860's while the U.S. Civil war was using telegraph, locomotives, rifled muskets and aerial observation just proves we live in a game of Sid Meyers Civilization.
What's even more ironic is that the US is fighting to, depending on your persuation, keeping or getting rid of an institution that is as ancient as Rome ...
Suvorov's books on soviet army is really good. I think it's the best of those suggested because it goes really deep on the mental schematics of the soviet military mind. It still mostly holds water if we look at today's Russian military
Interestingly, I've read some very unflattering opinions of Stilwell. As with all things dealing with history, who really knows the "truth". I suspect as with most depictions of a a historical figures, Stilwell is neither is great or as terrible as some say.
I don't think anybody liked him. Burma was kind of a catch bag of nerds nobody wanted in Europe. The lions share of the innovation always happens in the neglected spaces
Just watch the movie "to live" it is essentially chinese version of Forrest Gump in sense that it tells history through an average person's life story. There is book, the book is even more hardcore, more graphics more brutal than the movie
To be fair to Frederick Davidson (the offending narrator) he died in 2005 and not only were expectations different then, Google had not yet become a verb.
Correction: It's a 1959 infantry personnel, small teams, squad-level tactical training booklet. (单兵，组，班攻，防战术教材) It's the internal reference version by the Guangzhou military district. I do have it available, but it's too bad RUclips can't post photos.
11:11 interesting idea . I have noticed that in war most of the time the number of combatants is much higher than the amount killed but with modern firearms shooting is much easier & faster but considering Ukraine has a army of over 1 million but apparently there’s only 300,000 on the front . most soldiers not firing a shot in anger does seem possible
Yeah, I'd be REALLY interested to hear from folks who have an informed opinion about this. I'll say this: it might be significant that Marshall thought that the US Army improved its fire ratio a lot by the Korean War (because it makes me wonder, was the problem in WWII the US's fire ratio, or was it Marshall's own *method*?)
I am working through "Poor Richard's Almanack" (American version of the little red book?) and "Benjamin Franklin's Last Bet: The Favorite Founder's Divisive Death, Enduring Afterlife, and Blueprint for American Prosperity" -- I must say the early revolution and post-revolution era of America is filled with vitriol and mean spirit between founders -- just like how the founding father(s) of China are like. Some of their ugly fights making today's political circus a children's play. Fun fact, John Adams refused to celebrate 4th of July as Independence Day because the actual declearation was signed on 2nd of July. Also, he considered the war with British as a civil war (which is kinda true). What all these have anything to do with Chinese PLA and history? Nothing, and almost everything. It shows human nature are much more common than not. Today, the internet is filled with western personalities (mainly Anglo Saxons) calling for the demise of CCP because its economic miracle was fake and destined to fail (who am I to judge) and the Chinese people as a whole are just thieves without any moral. Reading American history somehow give me the same impression. Also, really the Chinese AK are the most controversial? I bet the Pakistan era homemade AKs that helped the Mujahadines to defeat the Soviets and later the ... are just as controversial ...
That's such a cool thing about young religions and young regimes: we have too much information to entertain a whole lot of otherworldly illusions about the founders.
Looking over that list I have read a dozen and have some of them on my bookshelf. Thanks, your list allows me to pretend to be well-informed. While the Type 56 was being adopted by the PLA, America's M14 was adopted in 1957. Taiwan adopted it and purchased tooling for Taiwan's Type 57. ruclips.net/video/pL-dLeWvbss/видео.html Two different nations. Pretty much the same conclusion--adopt an obsolete concept and call it modern. In the case of China, it was a great leap forward in 1956. For the USA it was going back to 1936.
It’s interesting that, at least on the surface, it seems encountering the Vietnamese was the common denominator that motivated both the Chinese and the Americans to rethink their small arms choices.
@@Chiller11 Did you mean Korea? You might mean Vietnam, but Korea significantly shifted the US policy on small arms to include 9mm pistol trials for the purpose of compliance with NATO standardization. Before that, World War Two was a wake-up call. The M1 Rifle was adopted in 1936 to replace the 800 thousand M1903 Springfield Rifles, the 100 thousand M1918 Browning Automatic Rifles, and a few hundred Thompson Submachine Guns that leaked into service. You probably were not aware of the latter "replaced" weapons. Around 200 thousand more Browning Automatic Rifles, 1.75 million Thompsons, and 2 million more Springfields were produced during World War Two along with 6 million M1 and M2 Carbines. Some 5.5 million M1 Rifles were produced from 1936 to 1957. The Smith and Wesson Model 39 and the Colt Commander were entered into the 1954 US Army pistol trials as replacements for the M1911A1 pistol and the slew of .38 Special revolvers, .32 ACP and .380 ACP pistols and some other limited issue sidearms as a result of Korea and having to supply a different pistol caliber ammunition to everybody. The Army was keen to shed its M1 Carbine for logistical reasons and because the Carbine didn't provide the range and firepower of the Browning Automatic Rifle--the M1 Carbine was adopted in October 1941 as a pistol substitute and to replace the Thompson Submachine Gun (a constant theme). One of the strikes against the prototype M16 was having a pistol grip and too closely resembling the distained tommy gun. As for expecting a pistol replacement to perform like a rifle, Army Brass just had to stop having liquid lunches at the Officer's Club before making their decisions. The Carbine was never intended to be a battle rifle--it was a personal defense weapon with enough capability to contribute to the infantry regiment's fire fight. Expecting this light-duty weapon (the Carbine) to work as a squad automatic weapon or a weapon dedicated to infantry assault work is as incompetent as expecting that 9mm pistols are suitable replacements for light machine guns and submachine guns. But--that's what happened with American Army brass during Korea--the M2 Carbine was not an assault rifle, the Browning Automatic Rifle wasn't a light machine gun, the submachine gun lacked range and rifle bullet punch, and the Garand's 8-shot clip-loading system made it a battlefield antique. What is really funny is that the US Army and the People's Liberation Army came to similar conclusions. PLA made a Great Leap Forward in 1956 with the Type 56 even though the leap was too short to reach the future, and the US Army took a leap back to 1936 when the new rifle was supposed to replace the bolt action Springfield, the select-fire Browning Automatic Rifle and the tommy gun. Vietnam was another cause for re-evaluation--the US Army had been working on SALVO since the Fifties: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Purpose_Individual_Weapon The M16 was reluctantly accepted as a stop-gap temporary measure until SPIW was ready for prime time because, as you point out, the real war in Vietnam demonstrated that the M14 and the SKS were not the way forward! As SPIW was never practical, the M16 family has been the longest-serving standard service rifle in US history. At present, American Army brass is still trying to return to the small arms of 1936, citing that one-kilometer reach able to drop a horse with one shot is the one, true he-man weapon of the infantry...
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept im sorry but icebreaker isnt just an oopsie-daisy one can recover from. i havent read the red army book, but judging from what he says/makes up about the red army in icebreaker i cant imagine he changed. especially cuz he wouldve picked a different ne pen name since suvorov isnt his real name either
Edgar Snow's book was very influential in USMC Major, later General, Evans Carlson's decision to liaison with the Chinese Red Army in 1938. He was impressed enough with them to adopt the hit and run strike tactics, and the motto "gung ho", for the Marine Raiders.
As a native Chinese speaker I was wondering what "gung ho" stands for. My first guess is "恭候” which is a classical and polite way to say "I am waiting(will wait) for you" It could also be used in a sense like "I am waiting for you to fk around then I will let you find out", which is a very fitting motto for a military. Then I googled and was utterly disappointed that the correct term was 工和. It's a very boring and weird term for Chinese. Please suggest the USMC to adopt my version. You don't even need to change the romanization 😂
Another reason I like this channel: its followers read actual history books!
Thanks for the deep five of books. RIP, my Amazon Christmas list ..
I love a channel that gives potential references. Most RUclips channels are much freer with opinions than they are with sources.
For auditory learners I would also recommend the podcast a people’s history of ideas. It’s an ongoing project documenting the development of Maoism with its historical context starting with the boxer rebellion. It’s great and I can’t recommend it enough.
I'm going to check this out! Thank you!
I can vouch for the podcast being very good abeit slowly released
@@justinliu7357indeed.
This has quickly become my favorite channel. Time to get to reading!
A good starting list of sources to reference.
Yippee! Thank you Professor!
"If you're psychological normal"...... 🤣
Yeah... Between brain chemistry, life experiences, and general environmental input... That is a stretch...
Your Korean War 10' pole, is a lot like my Vietnam War 10' pole. Growing up in the 80s just overwhelmed w/Vietnam War history/myths/legends/pop culture... I took a break from it for awhile.
My father and uncle served there, my commanders and Senior NCOs were Vietnam Vets when I first joined the military. It wasn't any bordem it was more exhausting. Now in the last few years a lot of info has been declassified. The MACV-SOG operations has been interesting... Confirming rumors or guess' that had happened.
Thank you for adding more reading material to my life...😁
in Pistols of the Warlords start with Page 330 and a single-shot muzzle loading pistol. Page 200 is a short picture essay on Shanghai and W. E Fairbairn.
Thank you, Dr. Clower 🙏 I’ve unfortunately enjoyed your class more than my own Chinese history course. Now that this semester is coming to a close I will use the coming winter break to rekindle my passion for history through your recommended readings.
Ahhh the the taiping rebellion. My great great grandfather was a lieutenant in the heavenly kingdom. he wasn’t a fanatic, but he fought for them because of their belief in ending the opium trade and socializing land. the ming dynasty hunted him down when the rebellion fell. and that’s part of the reason why my great grandfather came to the US for work.
That's so fascinating and cool wow. I did a high school project on the Rebellion and it's so cool to hear from someone who's family was historically involved. To me as a teenager when I did that project it felt like you know ancient history from a medieval fantasy especially since it happened across the world in the Mystical East which I love but have never visited, so your comment is so cool! It makes it so REAL! 🎗️🔥🐉
Though the real life scenario was not quite so romantic. Apparently after the rebellion leader died, his followers buried him and moved on. Then when the Chinese Government of the time found his burial spot, they dug him up, cremated him, and fired him out of a cannon lol kind of like one big last FU middle finger!
@ yeah the Ming dynasty was really brutal in its crackdown. Like I said the Ming dynasty hunted him down and basically scattered my family. My great grandfather became a migrant laborer on the Pacific railroads in the US because the family needed money
Holy Toledo, that's incredibly cool!
Caught this one nice and early! Comment! Praise for the algorithm!
Excellent hat drip
Thank you for this series and these recommendations. I feel so lucky to have found your videos
Not as lucky as I am to have people willing to watch me!
Dude the pole joke got me 😂
I don't have the time to listen right now but I am surprised to not see Rana Mitter's works on the recommended reading list.
Heck, neither are John Fairbank's :) But Mitter's would be great additions!
There's a great channel called Sinobabble on here, she did a series covering the entire 20th century in-depth, highly recommended.
Awesome
Red Star Over China addresses in the funniest way possible accusations of bias in his reporting on Mao!
Edgar Snow says he knows people will question the truth of his account, so to prove no one in the Communist Party of China influenced his book he tells a story about Mao studying maps on a hot Summer day.
Mao being a good ol country boy cooled himself off as you do by taking his pants off and just raw dogs Snow's interview questions.
My dad grew up on a farm in Eastern Kansas says it was normal to get naked in the August heat to stay cool. Seems like Snow is legit to me!
Thank you for the reading list! Assignment accepted.
Snow also published Red Star Over China in 1938, so Mao wasn't more than a decade from becoming a famous and successful revolutionary leader after winning in 1949!
Dude this is really great. I just have more questions.
"Because your a psychologically normal person..." , you assume to much professor! Lol.
Brillant 🍻
Poole's book "The Last Hundred Yards" is a non-com must read in the USMC. It's hard to find a copy, but Jocko Willink discusses it on one of his early podcasts.
17:20 Very bold assumption to make
Have you read any of Sarah C.M. Paines' books about the Sino-Japanese War and Russian/Chinese relations? They've been on my list for a while but I haven't gotten around to buying them just yet.
How have I been missing this stuff?! This looks awesome. Viva RUclips hivemind! Thank you.
I didn't ignore what he said about ninjas.
I post to support the rhythm of the alligators. 🐊
Alligators got groove.
The idea of the Chinese doing pike-and-shot style warfare in the 1860's while the U.S. Civil war was using telegraph, locomotives, rifled muskets and aerial observation just proves we live in a game of Sid Meyers Civilization.
What's even more ironic is that the US is fighting to, depending on your persuation, keeping or getting rid of an institution that is as ancient as Rome ...
Suvorov's books on soviet army is really good. I think it's the best of those suggested because it goes really deep on the mental schematics of the soviet military mind. It still mostly holds water if we look at today's Russian military
And then there is the quote from the original Viktor Suvorov: the bullet is dumb, the bayonet is smart! That have real big echo in PLA's tactics😂
Addendum. I am right now devouring Poole's the last 100 yards... wow
Awesome, I've never heard that one. Thank you.
I got some of those books. I'm a big fan of stilwell too. They still got a bust of him at his old place in chongqing
Interestingly, I've read some very unflattering opinions of Stilwell. As with all things dealing with history, who really knows the "truth". I suspect as with most depictions of a a historical figures, Stilwell is neither is great or as terrible as some say.
I don't think anybody liked him. Burma was kind of a catch bag of nerds nobody wanted in Europe. The lions share of the innovation always happens in the neglected spaces
@@iancarter649 Whoa! Joseph Stilwell has a fan! Well, that’s one.
@@Chiller11 he got the most uphill theatre of the war for sure!
Just watch the movie "to live" it is essentially chinese version of Forrest Gump in sense that it tells history through an average person's life story. There is book, the book is even more hardcore, more graphics more brutal than the movie
《活着》is actually a GOAT movie IMO.
Yu Jing does have Ninjas!!! Also Sulsa as well.
To be fair to Frederick Davidson (the offending narrator) he died in 2005 and not only were expectations different then, Google had not yet become a verb.
I do have a copy of a 1954 (IIRC) PLA doctrinal booklet if you are interested, but I will have to find it first
Correction: It's a 1959 infantry personnel, small teams, squad-level tactical training booklet. (单兵，组，班攻，防战术教材) It's the internal reference version by the Guangzhou military district. I do have it available, but it's too bad RUclips can't post photos.
Hey, thank you! I found it!
LONG LIVE HONG XIUQUAN AND THE HEAVENLY KINGDOM
天國萬歲！！
11:11 interesting idea . I have noticed that in war most of the time the number of combatants is much higher than the amount killed but with modern firearms shooting is much easier & faster but considering Ukraine has a army of over 1 million but apparently there’s only 300,000 on the front . most soldiers not firing a shot in anger does seem possible
Yeah, I'd be REALLY interested to hear from folks who have an informed opinion about this. I'll say this: it might be significant that Marshall thought that the US Army improved its fire ratio a lot by the Korean War (because it makes me wonder, was the problem in WWII the US's fire ratio, or was it Marshall's own *method*?)
Obviously, no one can accuse you of having only done superficial research in these areas!
I am working through "Poor Richard's Almanack" (American version of the little red book?) and "Benjamin Franklin's Last Bet: The Favorite Founder's Divisive Death, Enduring Afterlife, and Blueprint for American Prosperity" -- I must say the early revolution and post-revolution era of America is filled with vitriol and mean spirit between founders -- just like how the founding father(s) of China are like. Some of their ugly fights making today's political circus a children's play. Fun fact, John Adams refused to celebrate 4th of July as Independence Day because the actual declearation was signed on 2nd of July. Also, he considered the war with British as a civil war (which is kinda true). What all these have anything to do with Chinese PLA and history? Nothing, and almost everything. It shows human nature are much more common than not. Today, the internet is filled with western personalities (mainly Anglo Saxons) calling for the demise of CCP because its economic miracle was fake and destined to fail (who am I to judge) and the Chinese people as a whole are just thieves without any moral. Reading American history somehow give me the same impression.
Also, really the Chinese AK are the most controversial? I bet the Pakistan era homemade AKs that helped the Mujahadines to defeat the Soviets and later the ... are just as controversial ...
That's such a cool thing about young religions and young regimes: we have too much information to entertain a whole lot of otherworldly illusions about the founders.
nice hat
Looking over that list I have read a dozen and have some of them on my bookshelf. Thanks, your list allows me to pretend to be well-informed.
While the Type 56 was being adopted by the PLA, America's M14 was adopted in 1957. Taiwan adopted it and purchased tooling for Taiwan's Type 57.
ruclips.net/video/pL-dLeWvbss/видео.html
Two different nations. Pretty much the same conclusion--adopt an obsolete concept and call it modern. In the case of China, it was a great leap forward in 1956. For the USA it was going back to 1936.
And the Communists copied it for a possible invasion of Tai- The Renegade Province.
It’s interesting that, at least on the surface, it seems encountering the Vietnamese was the common denominator that motivated both the Chinese and the Americans to rethink their small arms choices.
@@Chiller11 Did you mean Korea? You might mean Vietnam, but Korea significantly shifted the US policy on small arms to include 9mm pistol trials for the purpose of compliance with NATO standardization. Before that, World War Two was a wake-up call. The M1 Rifle was adopted in 1936 to replace the 800 thousand M1903 Springfield Rifles, the 100 thousand M1918 Browning Automatic Rifles, and a few hundred Thompson Submachine Guns that leaked into service. You probably were not aware of the latter "replaced" weapons. Around 200 thousand more Browning Automatic Rifles, 1.75 million Thompsons, and 2 million more Springfields were produced during World War Two along with 6 million M1 and M2 Carbines. Some 5.5 million M1 Rifles were produced from 1936 to 1957.
The Smith and Wesson Model 39 and the Colt Commander were entered into the 1954 US Army pistol trials as replacements for the M1911A1 pistol and the slew of .38 Special revolvers, .32 ACP and .380 ACP pistols and some other limited issue sidearms as a result of Korea and having to supply a different pistol caliber ammunition to everybody. The Army was keen to shed its M1 Carbine for logistical reasons and because the Carbine didn't provide the range and firepower of the Browning Automatic Rifle--the M1 Carbine was adopted in October 1941 as a pistol substitute and to replace the Thompson Submachine Gun (a constant theme). One of the strikes against the prototype M16 was having a pistol grip and too closely resembling the distained tommy gun. As for expecting a pistol replacement to perform like a rifle, Army Brass just had to stop having liquid lunches at the Officer's Club before making their decisions. The Carbine was never intended to be a battle rifle--it was a personal defense weapon with enough capability to contribute to the infantry regiment's fire fight. Expecting this light-duty weapon (the Carbine) to work as a squad automatic weapon or a weapon dedicated to infantry assault work is as incompetent as expecting that 9mm pistols are suitable replacements for light machine guns and submachine guns.
But--that's what happened with American Army brass during Korea--the M2 Carbine was not an assault rifle, the Browning Automatic Rifle wasn't a light machine gun, the submachine gun lacked range and rifle bullet punch, and the Garand's 8-shot clip-loading system made it a battlefield antique.
What is really funny is that the US Army and the People's Liberation Army came to similar conclusions. PLA made a Great Leap Forward in 1956 with the Type 56 even though the leap was too short to reach the future, and the US Army took a leap back to 1936 when the new rifle was supposed to replace the bolt action Springfield, the select-fire Browning Automatic Rifle and the tommy gun.
Vietnam was another cause for re-evaluation--the US Army had been working on SALVO since the Fifties:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Purpose_Individual_Weapon
The M16 was reluctantly accepted as a stop-gap temporary measure until SPIW was ready for prime time because, as you point out, the real war in Vietnam demonstrated that the M14 and the SKS were not the way forward! As SPIW was never practical, the M16 family has been the longest-serving standard service rifle in US history. At present, American Army brass is still trying to return to the small arms of 1936, citing that one-kilometer reach able to drop a horse with one shot is the one, true he-man weapon of the infantry...
19th century china was a diffrent place... 😅
I'll keep it short: Don't recommend Viktor Suvorov, he's a discredited grifter. wild to see from an academic.
@@sebastiangorka200 I know about him and Icebreaker. Is his Soviet Army book flawed?
@@Type56_Ordnance_Dept im sorry but icebreaker isnt just an oopsie-daisy one can recover from. i havent read the red army book, but judging from what he says/makes up about the red army in icebreaker i cant imagine he changed. especially cuz he wouldve picked a different ne pen name since suvorov isnt his real name either