Ancient Motorcycle Technology that's actually BRILLIANT
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- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2024
- Today we're looking at old motorcycle technology that helped shaped the future of motorcycles. From pedal starts to sprung saddles, these old world features will have you longing for the good old days.
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Here in the UK, back in the seventies and early eighties, there was an articulating sidecar called a sidewinder. It was just a frame and wheel, and was designed to get around the licensing laws at the time. Before you passed your test, you were limited to 250cc, but if you had a sidecar attached, there was no limit, so people used to bolt these on and get away with riding a much bigger bike. It didn't take long before they changed the law and banned them.
Vincent was incredibly far ahead for it's time. The use of the engine as a stressed member wouldn't become commonplace on sports bikes until the 1970's. The speed records set by Vincent lasted decades. A bike from the 40s with the engine as the stressed member, huge use of aluminum alloys and going to a shorter stroke engine with wider bore like many modern bikes for peak horsepower. Not to mention it's one of the best looking bikes ever made!
The English made amazing machines before their fall in the 70s. They're what got me into bikes.
Also the position of the rear suspension, which is now common in modern sports bikes
I love Vincent and still hope to have one someday. for some reason I just fell in love with the look of the bike at 3:44. everything is accessible. no mystery just clean and functional design
Vincent is one brand that really should come back by someone well-financed and just wants what we all want.
Urals have a driven third wheel, which is HUGELY advantageous on the rough terrain they were designed for. The fact that its a rigid, self standing unit with two wheels pushing, is far more suitable for purpose than a flex type unit. Flex is very desirable on a faster roadbike, I have to admit.
BMW really should go back to offering sidecars as a factory option. Particularly one with 2WD like a Ural but with more of the BMW experience.
Those Roughrider grips are just like the sprung saddle but for your hands. Early bikes had lousy front suspension that would cause wrist fatigue, they weren't for "tucking in". Drop bars were a thing back then.
I considered doing something similar to my old Harley, but riding the Honda on longer trips made more sense. (sorry guys, I couldn't help it...but it's true)
Glad that you pointed that out. I came here to say the same thing.
The Black Shadow, lightning were the most beautiful motorcycles that have ever been built, not to mention that they held the title of the fastest production bikes in the world for 3 decades.
Police kept the Smith's chronometric speedos well into the 80s because they were very accurate, in contrast to the magnetic drag kind that most vehicles had.
I have a sprung saddle on my hardtail, which is also my daily rider. They are still very popular today, specially on choppers.
I don’t consider sprung saddles real suspension tho. They do make the ride more comfortable but since they are un-dampened, going over a large bump can send you flying over the handlebars.
My FLHPI has an air suspension on the "police seat", so I guess that is kind of a "sprung saddle" also... Most comfortable motorcycle seat that I've ever had...
I didn't know that. I do suspect going over a medium bump with a contour seat and a hard tail like I had for a short time, can likely send a person over to a wheel chair if carried on for too many weeks. So a spring seat would be a great difference. Except when going over the bars.
Depends on the seat style. Those "pair of springs" upholstered tractor seats, yeah. The old school (until the early 80s) harley "pogo stick" seats, properly adjusted, not so much. The tractor seat can be upgraded to the mini coilover shocks used in bicycles these days, and actually have a genuinely oil dampened travel.
Umm my harris frame, bimota seat, honda 750 with a marzocchi front and rear suspension also hates large bumps. Hard on the wrists with tomaselli clip ons. Lol
@Carlos Oruna the complaint isn't so much "harsh ride" as "undampened spring porpoising". More a diving board than structural beam response to a bump. In the same way, those "springer" front forks bound (dive) and rebound (leap) in response to bumps, or braking. The factory springers of "the golden age" used friction dampening, the modern ones use that ugly front mounted shock absorber to mitigate such unnerving antics of the front suspension, lol
The Vincent Motorcycles were pretty damned advanced even by today's standards .
Apart from the Modular construction shown . Girder front suspension with variable Geometry , which maintains Trail measurement during Braking .
Cantilever Rear suspension . Precursor to ALL of the Mono-Shock rear-ends around today . Variable Damping front and rear . That'll do . There's more .
12:47 "The smoke is fine guys, don't worry" 13:00 frantically blowing out the flames 🤣
Love all the old footage you are able to find. Can't understand why sidecars are made any different. You've got a great narration style. Thanks for the content.
The leaning means the chair body is much narrower or the outlying wheel has to be further away
i can't say for sure about the ural mototcycles, but we had a family friend who had a side car attached on his bike, the bike itself is pretty light but he needed to the sidecar for a family member.thr bike needed to regularly go on some serious off roads.the sidecar that was first connected was a articulating one ,but he said that it helped on the road but said on bad or tricky offroad parts the articulation just made it much more difficult and unstable for him to traverse.the second sidecar was fixed and he said that offroad it was much more stable and controllable and the onroad performance was acceptable.he was not a elderly man at that time but also not very young.urals are kind of seriois offroad bike so i think thats why thry did not have a articulating sidecar.also ural is a lifestyle like company that sells a certain piece of history sort of bike so i can see why they did not deviate fron the design much.sorry my english is kinda bad.
The sidechair wheel is also driven, so Im guessing that extra mechanic would be difficult to include. But nice points you highlighted. Make a lot is sence
i think it would be pretty easy to include a tilting mechanism with 2wd because you just need to cv (probably rezepppa) joints and the bearings for the axle to get decent tilt angle.also ural was a war time motorcycle,a fixed sidecar would provide the ability to stand by itself without the rider having to control or support it would probably be very beneficial either in war or offroad.he would have also liked it because he would not have to use his core muscles much because of growing old.sorry for another wall of text,i just thought about this after writing the firat comment.
@@maahingupta2424 fair point
@@russcole5685 Ural has announced that for 2023 they are changing from cardan joints to CV joints on the driveshaft, stated reasons are for reduced maintenance and extended life. I doubt they have plans to do a flexi style sidecar. Production at the factory was 300,000 bikes per year before the Soviet government fell, the current demand is somewhere near 3,000 bikes per year. Obviously the money available for development and changes is very limited now and their focus has been on improving reliability and I can say that they have made immense strides in that area. I've owned 3 of them, the first a 1994 which was fun but you carried a lot of spare parts, then a 2000 which was much better but still had issues. The last one which I still drive is a 2004 and it's mostly gas and go with scheduled maintenance such as oil changes, valve adjustments etc. And at the rallys owners of the newer ones say they are much better. A side note, all of my bikes were 1 wheel drive, I don't offroad and so didn't need the expense of the 2wd system.
Marvellous design by Vincent you don't take the engine from the bike,you take the bike from the engine! More such engineering eccentricities,please! 😊
that....ancient modular motorcycle assemble ideas was....GENIUS
The carbide lamp worked by water dripping from a small tank causing the pellets to give off gas.
There was actually an adjustable rod that metered the drip.
I had an Indian and a BSA ( like the one in the video. ) The light on the BSA was brighter than I thought it would be.
It was almost a blue / white. Maybe I was getting more oxygen ?
You're telling me they used headlamp fluid?
@@sterling0heart In a manner of speaking. 😂
My father told me of his cycling (not motorcycling) days in the Netherlands in the '20s, and the great advantage of acetylene lamps was that urine could keep the lamp going.
The whole time he was showing us the Vincent 5:17 , i was starring at the beautiful Bonneville in the background. Looks like the 2023 colour scheme is modelled on this retro one
I truly appreciate your diligence in this history of motorcycle. Thank you 💪
I think the main advantage of the sprung saddle was missed - it enables long hours in the saddle due to the fact that the pressure points are constantly varying, allowing blood flow to all regions of your butt and preventing soreness resulting from a stationary relationship between butt and saddle. Very few fixed saddles are well designed; they feel great in the showroom but not after three or more hours on the road. My 1974 BMW R90S (silver smoke) was an exception. I could ride 600 mile days on that and still walk normally when I got off!
Yes, we want more videos like this.
Great video! Would definitely be interested in others! Sprung seat and pedals brought to mind a little known Czechoslovakian moped called a Jawa Babetta, these had one or two speed automatic gearboxes and were made from the mid 70s to the late 90s. 30 miles per hour had never seemed so terrifying until you straddled one of these beasts and rode it down a steep hill. It actually gives me an idea: you could make a video on Eastern bloc bikes and mopeds. I think it would generate a lot of interest!
I had an East German MZ 250 ETZ deluxe with a twin piston brembo front caliper. Awesome machine. The commie stuff was sure different.
You may find whatyou're looking for here:- www.youtube.com/@jawatino3797
@@MeYou-yz2yz My dad had a 250 MZ!
@@mr.carguy654 Maybe I am your father.😁 What colour was your Bu.....err MZ?
@@MeYou-yz2yz Silver
Great video! I love the old motorcycle tech content, so please more of that :)
Those Vincent bikes are amongst the most beautiful ever made.
Great post. Love this side of bikes.
Very interesting video! The strange and very exotic speedometers were new to me. Yes. Would love to see more videos like this about when everything wasn't quite the same. Thanks!
Another great video. Love the stuff you make - educational and entertaining.
As a kid loved the Megola - Rotary Engined Motorcycle.
Yes please. More videos like this.
When he mentione pedal starts and mopeds my heart jump a bit since im from central europe and the moped culture was and still is huge 👍
I enjoy all the information you dig up thanks.
I had a Yamaha XV 100 TR1, nicknamed the Plastic-Vincent for a reason. It disassembled the same way, very conveniant. And as a wedding pressent, we had a tandem bicycle with a leaning sidecar, build by some friends of ours. ;o)
Urals are rigid because the side car has a driven wheel, I assume. It would not be impossible to have a driven wheel on an articulated side car, but the whole charm of a Ural is it's simplicity.
Love seeing old tech and how it was used. You never know, there might be an idea you could update.
I think it's interesting how some of this is still with us today. For example that tell tale speedometer is basically what's used in some tire pressure gauges today to indicate what the max pressure past the gauge was.
At least I would like to see more videos like this, quite fascinating ;)
Very nicely done!
I just loved your content. I never knew lot of those inventions :-)
Yes more like this your video are both interesting and informative
Have to echo Mr9Guns, from my reading (esp Phil Irvings's "Modern Motorcycle Engineering" which I bought in 70's), that frame member you saw in the video of disassembly of Vincent was the stressed oil tank. The weight of the whole bike was very low, around I think 465lbs, and it had a centrifugal clutch which in theory would grip better at high rpm (in practice was notorious for slipping). The cams were high in the crank case and the pushrods actuated the valves with forks from under the springs making the pushrods short and lighter reducing inertial loads and allowing higher revs. The rear suspension pivoted off the gearbox, and loads from the shock went into the oil tank. Cycle World tested a 50's Vincent in the 70's and even with slipping clutch did a 1/4 mile in the 12's!
I may have seen one in the 50's outside Montreal...but it might just be imaginary wish fulfillment, of a kid...
Lotta fun. Thanx.
You can easily spend 23k on a ural now. Sidecar alignment on a rigid rig is crucial. if it's out of line it can pull you to one side, wear tires unevenly and generally be more unsafe. There is nothing simple about an articulated rig, it would really over complicate a ural due to its 2WD system.
That system does let you lean more but still limits how much and all those moving parts have to be kept in precise adjustment since you now have 6 points of articulation. it also makes the rig overall much wider.. I'll stick to my regular ural
As a Ural rider since the 80s I agree completely. Some years ago Jawa sold an outfit with a rubber bush linked to the rear wheel spindle that was supposed to improve stability. All it did was to knock out the wheel bearings and swing arm bushes quicker, and it was soon abandoned.
@@alandavies55 I remember hearing about that Jawa and how terrible it was..like I said I'm fine with my regular ural lol
Perfect bro.natural speaker
my 1975 ralleigh stowaway has a sprung saddle, it is really comfortable.
The post spring combo on Harleys was a bit more elaborate. You could get heavier and lighter springs to adjust load.
They were short so they could be stacked in various combos to give a progressive spring rate.
The treaded shaft had an adjustable collar to adjust preload. Seat post had about 3 inches of travel.
I used a zip tie to check travel when I bounced my arse. You want almost full travel, but not to bottom out on the frame.
This was probably the most neglected part of prior restorations. I had to re-do every bike I got.
I even had one bike where the springs were disintegrated and breaking apart.
You can still but the springs from aftermarket sources.
Vincent motorcycles were so beautiful and brilliantly engineered, and never really had anything approaching an equal. They were an answer to the question, "What kind of motorcycle would God build if He/She decided to take up riding?
More please!
outstanding!
This is awesome
More content like this please.
I wouldn't call it tech, but I liked the old bikes with hinged seats that you could flip up easily to access the battery, a tool kit or have a place to store the documents. Only see it now on bikes like scooters or Honda's Trail 125.
I think that is still a thing in scooters nowadays and I would totally call it tech! I think in motorcycles there's just barely any storage space left under the seats to warrant a hinge mechanism over a simple slide and lock setup.
@@MrSaemichlaus Scooters are amazing when it comes to built in storage. I have a 2003 Burgman 650 I pretty much just use for fair weather commuting. Scooters are way underrated in the US. Probably an ego thing. I have 5 bikes including a Heritage Softail. Don't see too many guys who ride scooter and a Harley!
I had 1923 Indian Scout - It was cherry condition and had carbide headlight -
Love the vid - keep them coming Bart! Greatly enjoy the sprung saddles on my RE Classic 500 and my BS SS80 (which is also not rigid, but has B&D rear suspension). And tickling carbs to prime them is part of the cult rituals ;- )
Great vid..do more
Did I really hear you say , “ The officer could take a picture of the tell all with his phone and send it to dispatch “ 😂😂😂
1 more: the neutral lever only found on vintage Royal Enfield models to go from 2nd/3rd/4th directly to neutral.
I would like more videos like this.
Good stuff
super interesting!
The Acetylene light is so cool! Seeing all these old bikes is awesome! And cops are always pushing the speed needle so thats no surprise! Lol
"Take a picture of the speedo on their phone and send it to dispatch" ahahahah! 🤣
Yes, more like this.
Yes more like this.
Also take a look at the T500 twin two stroke?
Does anybody remember a motorcycle with a hot-bulb engine? The hot bulb preheated some kind of petrol mix which was then moved into a cylinder which fired it with compression. The engine was more commonly used in the German Lanz bulldog tractors.
Hildebrand & Wolfmüller motorcycle has hot bulb engine 1500cc 2 cylinder with 2.5hp
Copper would reset the tell all after catching up, pace the speed offender, then pull them over. "I clocked you at 52 in a 40", with a visual confirmation to "prove it" to the speed demon, lol
The Roughrider grips were to give relief from vibration.
When I got my first bike I remember my Father telling me about his first machine back in the 30s which had a carbide headlight
I miss center stands. So easy to do rear wheel matinence.
more videos like this!
as someone old enough to have used them. carbide lighting was awful. on lighting great, but all that smoke slowly coated the reflector and glass, so the light slowly dimmed. after about 5 minutes,stop, extinguish, clean it all, re light, then after about 10 minutes the used carbide formed a skin and reduced the flame, so stop, scrape out the old carbide, re fill and start again. early electric lights were also rubish. the electrical firm Lucas was called the prince of darkness for a reason. then one tried to get home before it was fully dark so lights were more to let others see you in the twilight. some nostalgia for the past is over rated, yes i loved my triumph twins but EVERY Saturday morning was devoted to valve clearance check, points gap, timing, primary chain oil, carb synchronization, which used a 1 to 2 cable box which would be wrong again by the time you reached top gear
Yes... more videos.
Bravo Bart Give Me More
Here in Texas, the police are not required to show you the reading on their radar units, so there is no real proof that you were going the speed that he CLAIMS that you were going... And even if he did show you the speed displayed on the unit, there is no real proof that he recorded you doing that speed vs someone earlier in the day doing it...
13:00 its on FIRE !!!
the ural is primarily geared towards offroad, the rigid frame is advantageous for that purpose. If they wanted to make higher speed ones for cornerning to the right then yeah it would make sense.
By the way the rubber handle grips are not so much for the racing stance it is actually just stop the vibration vibration on somebody’s early motorcycles is absolutely Numbing and you can end up with vibration white finger is yes it is a proper medical thing so that’s what the actual rubber grips with all enjoy channel Michael
Yes you're correct, my mistake 👍
In the 70s I bought an American made device known as a barsnake, it was a long solid cylinder of soft dense rubber that slipped inside the handle bars and helped to damp out any vibration, I have never heard of them since, which is a pity because it worked.
Regarding the Flexi-Sidecar, I know that a standard sidecar motorcycle must be steered like a car not a motorcycle. This is a very important distinction between the two platforms. It looks like the Flexi-Sidecar would allow you to ride the motorcycle as a motorcycle with the sidecar, which again is a key difference.
" *a standard sidecar motorcycle must be steered like a car not a motorcycle* "
The main advantage is that it's inherently stable. One, or even all three wheels can lose traction and you won't fall over. It's inherently stable.
From what we've seen in the video, this folding sidecar seems like a very bad idea.
@@bakters I also think keeping the balance of the bike under normal circumstances is not trivial. Any weight shift of the weight in the sidecar (at a stand still as well as in motion) must have affected the balance and the lean of the whole bike and sidecar. I imagine it would be a matter of discipline of the passenger or just limiting the use of the sidecar to cargo only (which would also need to have its mass pretty much centered). The footage shown at 06:00 seems to show a passenger sidecar where the passenger is sitting in a low, recumbent position, thus reducing the potential weight shift as well as its effect on balance. Furthermore, the rider at the controls would have to rely on countersteering alone to steer and balance the bike, because shifting his weight would have a lesser effect due to the additional inertial mass of the sidecar.
The leaning sidecar seems like a cool idea, but it doesn't work on winter and makes the sidecar frame more fragile. Also adding a drive to the sidecar wheel is basically impossible to make in leaning form, when it needs to last on rugged terrain. And, rigid frame sidecar stands upright on it's own. Leaning frame needs a stand to hold upright. Yes it can hold somewhat on a smooth level surface, but Ural is not designed for such surface. It's an off-road/adventure sidecar vehicle designed to go almost anywhere in any possible weather. Leaning joints would create unnecessary failure points into the design, and lower the load capacity.
You didn't do pre cable linkages......pure genius, tho designer's must have had some real headaches
Needs to look up what "dampen" means. Springs suspend while shock absorbers damp the oscillation of the springs. Dampen means to make damp or slightly wet and nobody wants their seat to do that.
Can you do a video on shaft drive bikes?
I used to have a 84 nighthawk 750 which was a shaft drive cb750. Problem with early shaft drive bikes is they bucked you up/forward if you let off the throttle, so they were pretty hazardous at the time. I hear modern shaft drives have solved this but there isn’t much content about it out there (most shaft drive videos just explain the difference between shaft and chain drive they don’t cover the evolution of the shaft drive)
Good point!
Regards from Brazil. ✌
I have a 2009 Yamaha VMAX. I have never experienced the so-called "jacking effect". It actually handles great for its size. This is my first shaft-drive bike. I have owned many chain-drive bikes. This must be something that has been largely eliminated in modern shaft-drive bikes.
@@littleshopofelectrons4014 I have a pre-2000s Maxim, and I've never noticed such a thing. I'm inclined to guess it might have been from the change in suspension geometry needed to replace the chain with a drive shaft.
There are two basic ways of curing the shaft jacking problem: the complex BMW/Kawasaki Concours "Paralever" scheme and the simpler Yamaha FJR, "do it with geometry" scheme.
One of the things I love the most on my Royal Enfield Classic is the spring seat
Some smaller companies or rather workshops still build something similar to the flexi sidecar. Though usually they will have the sidecar set up normally and the bike will be able to lean individually, without the sidecar wheel leaning over. In germany where I live they are not as uncommon as you'd think. We call them 'schwenker gespanne' wich would translate to 'swaying sidecar bikes'.
Did Anyone catch the comment of the officer taking a picture of the speedo and sending it to dispatch ? -- I am sure Bart was referring to modern times but it just amused me speaking of primarily pre war instances.
The articulated sidecar is a brilliant concept for riding, but it is maintenance intense and the linkage breaking will lead to disaster. The shock common in motorcycles will destroy any connections the looser they are, the faster they fail.
RE Classic 350 still sports a sprung seat but the cushion is so plush the spring does nothing lol
at this point, it's just there for the looks, it has become a part of the Classic 350
The name Matchless comes for the first motorcycle without acetylene lights, pure electric.
Love the irony at the end. Sure, people were calling cops pigs were because they were so adorable "oink-oink"
My bikes cvk24 has an accelerator pump so imho that is the same as #1 :)
3:28 Ugh! I remember Vincents being advertised for as little as $200 back when the Honda CB750 was slaughtering the competition. That'd be $2000 in today's money.
A Vincent is so cool. Could you just use clips to hold it together? The floppy grips must cut down on vibration through the bars. Before spring loaded throttles, all bikes had cruise control. Back to the future!
0:46 The Indian Four has the classiest exhaust manifold which can teach a lesson to current manufacturers on how to finish an engine.
Love anything to do with motorcycle history
@1:19 what NOT to wear on your feet when kickstarting British bikes! Talking of technology, I had a 1950s Triumph Tiger Cub with a gear position indicator in the headlamp nacelle. (It worked off a Bowden cable from the gearbox) Also I once owned a 1947 Panther with Oleomatic Dowty Forks: you could pump them up with air to adjust the stiffness of the ride, which was great until the seals started to leak!
I had a 1981 Honda cm 400 custom. If the suspension in the front was too soft you added air and if it was too stiff you let some air out. So that was a technology that was brought back a time or two.
most cavers lamps swappeed to LED from carbide, I had carbide as a youth when caving during my teens , you could have fun with it blowing up toilets .
Swing and a miss on the rough rider grips... You held on to the rubber end when you were riding down the washboard dirt roads of the time so your hands and arms weren't getting beat to a pulp.
I've done a lot of sidecar riding (driving?) always with a rigid set-up and it really isn't a problem once you realise that, like any other two track vehicle, you need to turn the handlebars to turn it. The reason a leaning or other flexible attachment hasn't become popular is because it's unnecessary. The leaning doesn't move the CoG enough to make much difference. To make the outfit turn faster the whole thing needs to be lower and that's only done on racing machines. At one time I used to ride an old ex-works 1949 BSA trials outfit - often on my own. In fact, I used to lift the chair on right-handers (LH fitted - I'm British) and ride it like a solo :) I also used to ride racing pedal trikes (like a normal bike just with 2 back wheels) and got great amusement when bike riders tried to ride it and ended up in the ditch because the tried to lean it rather than steer it.
I haven't had the opportunity to ride a side car rig much. I got licensed before the pandemic and haven't been able to afford my own. But, it's not just that it's unnecessary, but it also gives you an unnecessary point of failure to worry about. Back when this technology was still being made, the roads weren't as good and you could be going a bit faster over rougher terrain. These days though, you probably wouldn't be.
I'd expect to get a differential to drive the side care wheel when turning well before we'll see the flexible side car reappear.
👍
Wouldnt it have been lifting on left handers? Side car would have to be on the inside of the corner
Last summer I saw a senior riding a seemingly very old bike, I could tell it had low rpm and lots of torque and it smelled differently, and he seemed to be shifting it with a hand lever. I wouldn't be surprised if the clutch was actuated by a foot too. I stayed behind him for a while to see what it was, but I couldn't make it out.
He was riding a senior citizen scooter. Lmao
@@theenzoferrari458 No I'm serious! It looked like an old cruiser from pre-war times or something, and it smelled wonderfully.
I should imagine that the use of acetylene lamps would not be used for either mining or caving (spelunking) due to the critical problem of underground gas pockets and the danger of explosions. So yes, while the technology was used on all vehicles, it was not for illumination of the road, and rather more a signal light for
These lamps were used for mining until they were found to have caused a big explosion in a US mine in '32. Most of the world stopped using them after that.
Still used in caving for a long time later tho due to long life and ease until battery/bulb technology caught up, particularly for long caving trips and/or remote areas
Front suspension came first, vibration will blind you, that’s what those flexing grips are about,
Those flexi sidecars are extremely dangerous.
If I was going 45 and you were going 45 you would not be able to catch up to me.
I had this discussion with an officer once who told me " I had to go over 100mph to catch you".
Yes, and you caught me so that means I was going under 100mph, in fact you caught me quite quickly so that means I was going substantially under 100mph.
5:16 Is that a Norton 650SS barrel/head by the door?
7:13 because if you didn't grease it it would be working itself to come apart.